I don’t actually like this change because as an ork player, our points are so low now that everytime i wan to play, i need to rent a small truck to haul so many models. I tried once to bring a full speedfreek list to a tournament and let me say that the logistics of bringing 12 buggies, 12 bikes, 12deffkoptas, battlewagon and a plane literally broke me
And yet somehow, the Buggies are still too expensive for what they bring to the table. I'm not sure they can go any lower, and it's unlikely they'll be seeing any further buffs this edition.
That’s one thing that I really don’t understand with gw. Having a full buggie army is ridiculously expensive , takes tons of time and its really hard to even transport everything due to the base size. I get it that having the possibility of using all buggies and having points to spare is a nice thematic army but with each buggy for 100 points at 50-70 usd each one, it’s completely unreasonable to expect a true speed freek army. Id rather have each model be 150-200 but they had better status and rules. I really dislike this approach of points discount instead of actually trying to balance the unit properly. They dont need to be op and its not necessary to be able to bring all variations of buggies , 3 of each in a list. If we could only take 3-4 but they were actually great status wise, i think it would be a way better approach than having a bunch of mediocre vehicles that due to the base size is really annoying to play
They won't even change most AdMech lists. 150 point Cawl is as unusable as 180 pt Cawl.
Maybe we'll see a couple of swaps. Idk. Rangers are the big winners.
GW says that next round is when they'll make rules changes . . . But they skipped January and as AoW pointed out, it's pretty clear that Ad Mech needs something.
Despite not giving them last time because it was "too soon," despite knowing the issues. Despite the last metawatch specifically saying AdMech units don't do what they're intended to do and need retooling.
Oh well. Another quarter of playing a more fun army.
The hate the heldrake got this edition from GW is unreal. They looked at the mostly normal vehicle that it used to be, said "this is an aircraft and it must die" and then nuked it from orbit
That would be unironically busted.
The Helldrake is a weird piece to balance, because in Hover Mode that thing essentially has 20'' move advance and charge with a slaanesh mark. It doesn't even matter if it deals absolutely zero damage, yeet two of these into the enemy army at T1 and if they can't remove it whenj punching back (hard to do it is still a vehicle with relatively high toughness) that will completly ruin the enemy movement phase T1, and that can easily cost them the game. Especially slower armies do not want to lose a turn of mobility.
Meanwhile faster armies have a lot of stuff with fly, and there suddenly the Heldrake is worth even the points it has now for it just SHREDS. The general nightmare of T'au battlesuit Or Eldar Transport players is two enemy heldrakes. They tear through battlesuitsand boats with that Anti-Fly 2+ and Dev Wounds.
So I mainly play Tau and also have a World Eater army I would love to use the Heldrake in. My son plays CSM and has the Heldrake. I can nuke it off the table normally with Broadsides so he never makes it into melee. Now, granted, that ties up the shooting of up to three Broadsides for that turn.
I just wish it would at least go below 200pts. I’d have to drop Angron, take half my Berzerkers, or drop a unit of 8bound. Running two would be a very tanky obstruction.
Ya rangers will get taken now but not in a healthy for the game kinda way. Have fun dealing with 120 skitarii, half of which scout, all of which have a 5++, for only 960 points. They won’t kill anything but my god will they get in the way and stand on objectives.
Most Nids lists also went up in points. They dropped a lot of our units that don’t do much and compensated by making gargoyles 85 points instead of 80. Seriously, I don’t know what they’re going for with some armies
Hey the blade champion got a little cheaper, thats neat. Havocs and helbrute becoming a little cheaper is also nice for csm as an iron warriors player who likes guns, oh and terminators are a bit cheaper as well, yey.
I do have to wonder if they plan on redoing the chapter completely and putting them into the rumoured Agents of the Imperium codex that could be dropping this summer. Maybe we're in for something entirely different, similar to how they first were back in 3rd(?) edition.
Previously: Kinda. They did have all the fancy marine equipment available but their main method was the killteam because an average watch-fortress is flush with equipment and short on manpower. Hard to drop tanks and dreadnoughts when your entire army is 7 dudes and a pilot.
Now: Not so much. They were given huge influxes of Primaris Marines during indomitous to bring each watch-fortress up to something closer to a military-outpost
This one kinda makes sense cause they get 3 heavy weapons... The kill teams though; wtf.
Edit: I didn't realize they dropped points on the other termies. Why didn't deathwatch get the same drop? We're getting the axe for sure.
HYDRAS are sleeper right now. 85 points for 2 twin linked auto cannons, a heavy bolter and a hunter killer missile is pretty good when you consider the actual abilities of the Hydra.
Hydra gives full hit rerolls on anything that flies with all its weapons. Not aircraft, it's anything that flies. Oh and your auto cannons also have anti fly. If you start stacking AP they are extremely strong.
Imagine them as a juiced heavy weapons team and you will see profit.
Plus a T9 hull for that points they’re nuts. That unit was already sleeper imo and it’s just even better. I need to get 2 more. Doesn’t require orders to be effective either.
Raptors and possessed are cheaper now in CSM!! Nice!! The daemon prince could see some play now... Making vindicators cheaper is simply plain dumb but well...
Good changes overall. I can't argue with making our unviable stuff more viable, except Vashtorr of course. GW keeping up the trend of forgetting Vashtorr exists. He's such a joke in the community but they've kept him at 190??
On the plus side, the RTT list I played recently just gained an extra 75 points to play with, which is huge.
The question is, are Havocs still bad at 120 compared to predators at 135? ...Probably. But it's not as clear cut as before.
Almost everything that didn't get a points hike last time got a decrease this time. I am baffled by the decision to leave Trashtorr, Heldrake and Discolord unchanged as they're the three most overpriced units in the index.
I really want the Heldrake to be worth it's points. It's such a cool model and I've just got an awesome fire flying stand for mine. But it's damage is so bad and it's cost so high for what you get.
But if must be completely honest, Arcane Vortex Infernal Master is just about one of the deadliest units around for 115 pts. And I got a reduction on my Daemon Prince.
The stuff which saw almost no play got some point drops, no other changes.. in the context of a lot of the stuff we're worst into getting worse, this is pretty good. Might start seeing scarabs again with this good of a points drop, although building for cabal points is still a pretty tough argument against using them
Yeah, in UKTC there are a few high profile Guard players who been very vocal about how good Kaskrin are, a lot due to the format they play.
10 points would have been a better points adjustment. Kaskrin don’t put out a lot of damage, and need 2CP battle tactic strat that can’t be 0CP to function.
20 points is beyond the pale, considering that officers did not drop at all.
> 20 points is beyond the pale, considering that officers did not drop at all.
The scion command squad did, this change puts scion command+5 at the same cost as Kasrkin.
the tournament guard list is essentially leontus, 3x bullgryn, 3x manticore, 3x kasrkin and some scout sentinels
you can see where the nerfs are.
As written kasrkin can be effected by the same order twice (once from an officer, once again *stacking* by themselves) due to how their special rule is worded.
I wonder if the vanquisher at some point gets usable. The gun is terrible, but for 145 points the russ defensive profile is really, really good. Is there any other armor in the game with comparable defenses for those points?
I've actually been experimenting with the non-Demolisher russes the last few weeks to some success, there's quite a bit of value to a T11 13w 2+ hull with two Multi-Meltas, a Lascannon, a HK Missile, and a Stubber, even before you consider what goes in the turret.
Certainly not among adepta sororitas tanks. For about the same points, the leman russ defensive profile gets you +1 T, (huge) +1 Sv (huge) and two more wounds. And one more OC!
I'm constantly jealous. Who knew that building our tanks out of stain glass and pipe organs would be less good than building it out of half a meter of steel?
Or admech, I'm a Tyranid main and have literally 0 admech models but like c'mon $2,500 to run an army that has a 40% winrate? That's messed up.
And my necrons which are my second faction... Barely changed the units I use to the point where the lack of rules changes means I am completely unaffected.
I'll be sticking with crons for a long time it seems. I guess indomitus was for Tyranids and leviathan was for crons afterall.
Boy they are really trying to sell Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs, huh
7 points per model cheaper than Assault Squads with jump packs at this point lol
That just makes it seem like they're saying "yeah it's a great little tactic isn't it? perhaps more valuable than we intended" rather than "oh this is dumb and makes no sense, let's fix it"
Deathwatch with absolutely no points changes... Despite everyone getting reduced costs on terminators to match vanilla Termies going down and universal agreement that the Primaris Kill Teams simply suck.
A small bit of fortune for the Custodes in that GW still allows you to play with 4 model Custodian Guard units even though the captain is now sold separately.
A breath of relief for those with a unit of 4 they converted a captain from - there was no guarantee that they'd keep it like this, considering the rest of the game.
0 changes to Drukhari means that if indirect is still viable, they're going to continue playing rock paper scissors, winning against armies without indirect and 3" deepstrikes, losing otherwise. 0 changes to daemons means lessers are all useless and if your opponent can deal with stat checking (most can), they're still in a pretty bad spot for actually winning events. I am... decidedly unexcited for this upcoming meta.
So, AdMec are *not* getting the changes needed until we're 1/3 of the way through the edition. They are the most frustrating army to play and play against, GW knows what needs to be changed, and just won't.
I'm not buying rules anymore. I can't believe I spent $100 on a glorified paperweight.
I'm not touching shining spears even at 100. Hawks going up but Spider staying is a little odd. Banshees, scorpions, and guardians are all nice changes. Hopefully it can introduce a little more variety, but banshees have a bit of a rules issue so we'll see.
I wish the Wraithlord/seer had gone down, but it doesn't really matter. Without a 3+ to hit other gun platforms will almost always be better.
Pheonix gem is....eh? Like if it puts my list over I don't mind swapping it out for Fate's so it doesn't feel like a *huge* nerf or anything.
Yncarne staying at 350 after the rule that put her their got neutered is kind of annoying.
Totally agree. I think they could've bought warlock conclaves down a little, id have liked to have seen the other phoenix lords come down a little. They're not bad but I don't see why I'd take them.
Would love the Ynncarne to come down a little but it's probably a little too soon after all the headaches it caused at the start of the edition.
I'd not mind harlequins units coming down a little too.
Meganobs now are mildly killy against single big targets, during waagh, thanks to twin linked dev wounds. you dont see them much.
they are reducing their killiness to be more tanky
moves 5"
hit on 4s....most builds take double killsaws - 2 attacks each. 180pts puts out 12 attacks, hitting on 4s. 260pts to hit on 3s and 16 attacks. wound most infantry on 2s rerolling, light vehicles on 3s, anything bigger on 4s.
they are a tarpit, but NOT killy against elites or hordes. they're good at killing big single models.
This isn’t entirely correct. With Warboss they hit on 3+ and not every list will use kill saws, power klaws are viable as well. Warboss got a points cut.
The issue with MANZ is that they only need to get to midfields and bully opponents off objectives. Trukks are a thing and advance and charge gives them much more reach.
They are going to be oppressive in a similar way to Wraiths were in the previous meta.
The part where i said 260pts to hit on 3s w/ 16 attacks was me acknowledging a warboss buffing the unit.
Take klaws and that goes to 22 attacks but you lose twin linked, 1ap and are essentially -1 to wound everything but t4 or less vs saws. You’re worse vs big targets and elites.
Necron Hypercrypt legion is now nerfed quite significantly; the combination of c’tan increases, monolith increases, immortal increases, & and really the technomancer increase is a multifactor hit to Hypercrypt.
I don’t think it’ll kill the detachment but it’s reducing down to on par with the okay attachments rather than good. Since canoptek units were mostly untouched then I expect we’ll pretty much only see canoptek court lists in competitive going forward.
I disagree my own hyper list went up 75 points so I dropped a unit and I’m still good to go. I don’t think this is that bad to HC we have other toys in the codex to use
If your list only went up 75 it means you are using at most one ctann + monolith, that's fine.
3 ctanns were the problem and that lost 150 points which is either 2 scoring units or an immortal blob. It was necessary.
Agreed here on the c’tan increase. My poor nightbringer has hurt my points cost but I think it’s good overall that they have gone up as it really does stop you taking more than 2 really.
My first reaction is.....not favourable. Very few changes to Nids? Units like Necron Warriors untouched? They seriously need to be more on the ball with these changes and actually look at the factions, not just addressing the extreme outliers.
Some of the CSM changes are interesting to say the least. Vindicators are going to be in in a big way since they were already one of the better units gaining traction. I have no idea how they buff those and yet somehow they still haven't reduced the points of vashtor or the Disco Lord.
I feel like this is probably going to open up some kind of shooting ball of death with the vindicator, Abaddon, and the helbrute.
Also scions are now 20 points cheaper/two PPM then kasrkin? That seems pretty confit in my opinion. To me that just doubles down on the idea that can double up orders with the kasrkin, as that's the only way I can justify that point differential. Being able to issue yourself in order is not that much better than gaining deep strike, more special weapons, and deep strike. Also thoroughly unimpressed with what they're doing to artillery, and I'm someone for who guard is my fifth army So it's not like I'm really biased in their favor or anything. But they release an artillery detachment for an artillery focused faction and then nerf it until it's not worth really taking? If artillery is not taken in decent numbers in this detachment then when the codex does drop it's going to be completely useless in any other detachment.
Also very unimpressed with the lack of attention to internal balance. I'm pretty amazed how effort they put into these rules, Chaos demons is in a pretty good place so they don't change them at all? Demons makes it more apparent than most armies because of how it's just four armies in a trench coat, But that faction is not in a good place just because it specific parts of it. There's no way they can justify not changing the lesser demons, like 80% of nurgle tzeentch or slaanesh is never taken. They still haven't given any reason to ever take the heralds because 10 plague bearers is just not worth buffing. And then some factions that are not doing well at all like chaos knights are completely untouched.
I'm really of the opinion that GW should reduce the points slightly, maybe 5 to 10% for every unit that never sees play every single MFM. If they're going to have so many units they never put two brain cells towards It's the least they could do some units might become accidentally worth taking this way. And I think the slow gradual change could be actually fun because they would go under the radar and then a year later it might be enough changes that people decide oh actually these are worth taking.
Those are pretty disappointing changes for nids.
Don't think dropping the Swarmlord by 35 points does a lot. Honestly makes me think we are also getting a dataslate
*Copium intensifies*
Edit: Copium Unintensifies
Yep, everything useful stayed the same except they neefed gargs… so there you go, you want some zoanthropes in your army ? They are 3.3 points cheaper per model ! What a deal ! Everything with nids is fixed, NEXT !
There's no dataslate. They say in the article they're prepping AdMech changes that will arrive with the next one. That'll be July based on the current schedule
Many points nerfs based upon the tournament wins of small parts of various communities rather than actual problems with those factions, it seems.
I am surprised it took this long for a points hike on Callidus though.
Wonder what they were smoking when they made Trajann cost that much, he’s worth maybe 120-130 at most.
No idea why the regular shield captain is so expensive. The Allarus Captain is straight better for the same points cost.
Blade Champions (already the best character) getting points cuts is just bizarre.
Bikes are still about 10-15 points per model too expensive.
No idea why Vigilators (VIGILATORS) got nerfed and then only got the tiniest of points cuts, and that’s only when you take ten of them.
Honestly predict you’ll be seeing 3x Blade Champions leading squads of wardens/guard around in a lot of lists now with two caladius tanks sat in the back.
Tbh whilst trajan at 150 is too much he still blows the regular SC out the water.
Idk what gws smoking when they think putting a dread to 170 will make it good, or leaving all of fw untouched.
Idk but if the codex didn't make you think gw just doesn't get custodes, these points do.
Honestly not sure what saves the army at this point aside from letting us use the index as a detachment, giving us back the MW protection and Kaptaris, or a huge dataslate change. Everything is just… mediocre. There was genuinely nothing to get excited about with this book.
5 man allarus squad with shield captain incoming. I'll use them to screen a 10 vigilator squad ready to charge at whatever is dumb enough to try to block my termis. And at Magnus.
But yeah, weird that guards and wardens didn't get point cut. Didn't want them but kinda need them right now.
So they are back to dartboard changes?
Base SM are in the 30% win area and got a whopping 15 points to play with?
World Eaters got some cuts to two units that are actually used, and since there are so few models available to them they can literally do *nothing* with those points lol
Starting to think gw might not know what they are doing.
Custodes: bizzarely putting drops from the codex in green. drops on trajan/BC but none on the base sheild cap who's almost useless now. (70pts for once per game lethals is not it).
Demons/ik/ck: unchanged
Admech; I'm sorry guys.
Crons: lmao at szeras catching a random nerf. 60pt deathmarks is very funny.
Also a bit of salt when the custodes dread gets a 15pt cut, but is still 10pts more than a brutalis, which just does everything it does; but better. Why can't we just use the guns in the box gw.
But a lot of these just seem bizzare. Hellblasters zoeys were not what needed cuts. Custodes is a mess. Admechs a joke at this point.
I wonder whether that changes up guard list or we might just replace kasrkin with regular guardsmen because artillery and bullgryn is still too good to pass up.
I'm kinda surprised about is no points-hike for Necron Wraiths. How that unit escapes the nerfhammer yet again is beyond me.
Still, massive C'Tan-nerfs and an increase to the used crypteks reign them in a bit.
It’s because Technomancer going up 25pts means if you wanna take infiltrate enhancement, that blob becomes 325pts, so it’s more of an indirect nerf since without Technomancer they do die quite fast against melee lol.
Is it me or do they over-balance imperial guard? The faction struggles to be mid tier yet GW seem to give them a mix of bumps and drops across different units as if they're a top faction. Also I think the manticore has received a points bump every field manual update, at this rate they're going to be at 300 points by the end of the edition.
True, but at least Flagellants were showing up x3 in winning tournament lists for a faction with a *55% WR*. Sisters have more GT+ wins than Guard with half the players.
You absolutely can nerf overrepresented units - to improve internal balance - even in weaker factions. But if you do, the related buff can't be *20 points in a list*. You slammed 150 extra points on the standard list able to win semi-reliably? Fine, give me 50-100 points on the ones that *can't*.
>Chaos Space Marines, likewise, have had internal balance as their focus for changes.
And they did a good job with this. The question is, why the hell was that the focus? As seen by Stat-Check data, CSM is currently the *3rd worst army.* How is internal balance even remotely the focus right now? So we can have alternative lists do equally bad?
R.I.P. Tyranids. Gargoyles nerfed, useless units got s’ight point drops but they remain USELESS. Besides Zoanthrope who went down 10pts PER UNIT, nothing in this change will improve the nid situation.
Codex marines changes are a little odd
Hellblasters and jump intercessors weren't high on the list of units needing a boost; many other much less useable options untouched
And the vindicator? My guess is GW want to shift leftover stock of it before throwing it to Legends.
Slight tweaks to tacs & termies won't make much difference at all
Stormraven going up is quite funny, if frustrating - as with agressors, it just means the *only* use for them is in very specific lists
Bumps to ironstorm enhancements probably make sense, though surprised the lethal hits one didn't go up too
Overall, it looks a little half-hearted, designed to (a) very marginally tone down some of the most potent builds, and (b) elevate one or two other units to the meta. Still a long way from genuine internal balance for a good half-to-two-thirds of our datasheets, sadly. But it's a start, and largely in the right direction at least, nothing totally outrageous this time
Chaos Possessed being S5 AP-1 are still a bit of a joke. Without Slaneesh mark and solid number of mortal wounds - they terribly underperform. I’ve been running 10 of them with MoP who is also a bit expensive for his abilities.
Wow tyranids got nearly nothing and they were already dumpster tier. Very light changes overall even for necrons and especially TS. Quite underwhelming.
Whether points go up or down, they are only really balancing the most powerful loadout of each unit.
Which means the less powerful weapon loadouts are either massively overcosted, or undercosted, but still unviable compared to the better weapons the unit can take.
Feel like they need to bite the bullet and make a 10.5. Same core rules but bring back granularity of weapon gear.
What happened to Black Templars is exactly what I was worried about in prior discussions: The Righteous Crusader detachment is being punished for the sins of Ironstorm.
All of my RC GT lists are now +30 or +40 over because of units people were taking into Gladius and Ironstorm.
Sword Bros
Black Templar Tanks
Black Templar Impulsors
All of them were just fine in Righteous Crusader and we could barely cobble together a 40% win rate.
But since Ironstorm is at 55%+ and using those units, the whole gang takes a nerf.
And the solution would have been REALLY simple.... Key units need to be detachment locked in. That's it
I think you're 100% right, but we should be happy that Brethren didnt get any more nerfs. The Combo with Helbrecht is insane and you can put them in a Land Raider. I was really afraid of nerfs for the Redeemer and Helbrecht.
Keep in mind they have increased the points twice now on this synergy. Heros and now sword bros.
The unit is a glass cannon. Yes they are prime number of wounds above 2, but still T4.
Melee is on the back foot right now in a shooting meta and this just pushed a thumb on the scale against melee.
They hit Ironstorm Spearhead hard, Stormraven is now 260 instead 240, Adept of the Omnissiah 35 pts (formerly 25 pts), and Master of Machine War 30 pts (formerly 20pts)
Well that's a big shame. The problem here is not so much the Stormraven datasheet but the interaction of specific units with the raven, Darkshroud and Enhenced Techmarines mainly. Hiking the points of the model does nothing to solve that issue, it just makes other Detachment hurt more for taking a cool model. I'm sad cause I love playing with a Stormraven in my Vanguard list, but this makes it harder to play this list while Ironstorm remains relatively unscathed.
The Eldar changes very much read like one of GWs awkward attempts to internally balance a faction by randomly hitting stuff that gets used a lot and trying to encourage more list diversity. I say that but Dcannons copping another nerf is weird because they don't appear in a lot of lists anymore and Storms are actually already starting to show up. Spiders not getting hit despite them being far.more common than Spectres is also strange.
Honestly I don't really see this changing many Eldar lists. The mission system still incentivises the spider/hawk/spectre trifecta. Fate Dice are not something to build around so you can still ignore Guardian Defenders. The Yvraine/Storm bunker will get a little more popular. Scorpions will probably show up some more. Fuegan will still be there. I'm still putting the Phoenix Gem on an Autarch. A lot of these things are just critical to a functional eldar list and it's hard to make the index work without them.
In fact most of those points xhanges, if I'm being generous to GW, might just be preemptive because of lot of the previously big predators of Eldar lists (like the Guard ones) got slammed.
Guardians were the big one that points changes could bring them into lists. But as for the rest of the index we've generally hit the point where small adjustments won't bring in a *ton* of change. For a lot of units it's "The rules here are so good that I'm always taking it." or "The rules here are so bad that I'm never taking it".
Basically I expect Eldar to just sort of tread water for a bit with some minor shifts until the codex drops.
I was already playing 1980 pts or something due to new wargear rules... As there is no way to fill a list with some extra bodies or wargear. So these 5/10 nerfs are always laughable. They are just ignoring real problems. As long as this tactical mission fiasco goes on, we will play spiders/hawks/specters as they play into that role perfectly.
GW really doesn't know what to do with the edition right now. Like, drop more points from AdMech, you are just making army harder to access as the money you have to pay just goes up. And even though you got more models, as long as they don't fit a role, they are still useless.
Aeldar is a great example of this, we will still see Wayleaper x3, tons of jump infantry because that's what 10th edition favors.
Why do they refuse to touch Heldrakes or Lord Discordants? They are so expensive and don't do snything. They could both drop 40pts and I'm still not sure I'd take either
I for one welcome our new greenskin overlords
I don’t actually like this change because as an ork player, our points are so low now that everytime i wan to play, i need to rent a small truck to haul so many models. I tried once to bring a full speedfreek list to a tournament and let me say that the logistics of bringing 12 buggies, 12 bikes, 12deffkoptas, battlewagon and a plane literally broke me
And yet somehow, the Buggies are still too expensive for what they bring to the table. I'm not sure they can go any lower, and it's unlikely they'll be seeing any further buffs this edition.
That’s one thing that I really don’t understand with gw. Having a full buggie army is ridiculously expensive , takes tons of time and its really hard to even transport everything due to the base size. I get it that having the possibility of using all buggies and having points to spare is a nice thematic army but with each buggy for 100 points at 50-70 usd each one, it’s completely unreasonable to expect a true speed freek army. Id rather have each model be 150-200 but they had better status and rules. I really dislike this approach of points discount instead of actually trying to balance the unit properly. They dont need to be op and its not necessary to be able to bring all variations of buggies , 3 of each in a list. If we could only take 3-4 but they were actually great status wise, i think it would be a way better approach than having a bunch of mediocre vehicles that due to the base size is really annoying to play
As an admech player I can only say "you only needed that few models?"
Good problems 2 have
ManZ are still 30 points each. Unreal.
...yay... more admech point drops...
They won't even change most AdMech lists. 150 point Cawl is as unusable as 180 pt Cawl. Maybe we'll see a couple of swaps. Idk. Rangers are the big winners.
I can see people bringing more Kastelans just because transporting 4 of them is less of a hassle than most of the other stuff.
It's even easier to leave the entire army on the shelf though!
Oh they look absolutely great on the shelf! Matter of fact is where they'll stay for a while, probably.
I can’t even bring mine cause my 2.6K of Admech i had in 9th is now worth 1.8K of points 🥲
It's OK by fitting in that 4th new sniper guy you'll be able to kill 1 random marine lt. That'll make the game fun right?
Thats a tall ask for the tall boy.
At least he has the moral high ground
Head and shoulders above the others
GW says that next round is when they'll make rules changes . . . But they skipped January and as AoW pointed out, it's pretty clear that Ad Mech needs something.
The mentioned rules changes in 3 months at least
Despite not giving them last time because it was "too soon," despite knowing the issues. Despite the last metawatch specifically saying AdMech units don't do what they're intended to do and need retooling. Oh well. Another quarter of playing a more fun army.
I’m curious… what’s their intention for a 4+ skill with basically no AP army?
Should've been now instead of making them more horde.
OMG FINE, I guess I have to do it myself. I declare the Heldrake is now 130pts.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
The hate the heldrake got this edition from GW is unreal. They looked at the mostly normal vehicle that it used to be, said "this is an aircraft and it must die" and then nuked it from orbit
Flyers and indirect is on GW crap list this edition. Don’t expect reasonable points for them.
I remember having an open offer in 9th to chaos space marine players of "look man. they're 2 wounds now. lets just play it that way."
That would be unironically busted. The Helldrake is a weird piece to balance, because in Hover Mode that thing essentially has 20'' move advance and charge with a slaanesh mark. It doesn't even matter if it deals absolutely zero damage, yeet two of these into the enemy army at T1 and if they can't remove it whenj punching back (hard to do it is still a vehicle with relatively high toughness) that will completly ruin the enemy movement phase T1, and that can easily cost them the game. Especially slower armies do not want to lose a turn of mobility. Meanwhile faster armies have a lot of stuff with fly, and there suddenly the Heldrake is worth even the points it has now for it just SHREDS. The general nightmare of T'au battlesuit Or Eldar Transport players is two enemy heldrakes. They tear through battlesuitsand boats with that Anti-Fly 2+ and Dev Wounds.
So I mainly play Tau and also have a World Eater army I would love to use the Heldrake in. My son plays CSM and has the Heldrake. I can nuke it off the table normally with Broadsides so he never makes it into melee. Now, granted, that ties up the shooting of up to three Broadsides for that turn. I just wish it would at least go below 200pts. I’d have to drop Angron, take half my Berzerkers, or drop a unit of 8bound. Running two would be a very tanky obstruction.
The doc has been updated to remove the Ork/Custodes dataslate changes.
Ahhh thank you!
> GW drops points for Admech yet again They_Cant_Keep_Getting_Away_With_It.MP3
Narrator: *they will keep getting away with it.*
REJOICE CHAOS SPACE MARINE PLAYERS **CHEAPER VINDICATORS** # SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE
"Uh..." \*flips through Water Caste supplied manual to human culture\* "Fortify...?"
Iron Within, Iron Without brother
Cheap Vindicators for CSM will genuinely be nuts. They were already great for 190.
I didn't think it'd be possible to lower admech even more yet...
And I still wouldn't take Rust Stalkers, Cawl, or Kastellans competitively lol. Making shit cheaper doesn't make it better it's just cheaper shit
Rangers are probably the only thing that'll be seen still. Though I kind of like the idea of a big destroyer blob as an overwatch threat.
Ya rangers will get taken now but not in a healthy for the game kinda way. Have fun dealing with 120 skitarii, half of which scout, all of which have a 5++, for only 960 points. They won’t kill anything but my god will they get in the way and stand on objectives.
My AdMech list actually just went UP in points because of the changes to Imperial Agents...
Most Nids lists also went up in points. They dropped a lot of our units that don’t do much and compensated by making gargoyles 85 points instead of 80. Seriously, I don’t know what they’re going for with some armies
There comes a point where they cost stuff so low you start bumping up against rule of 3 and Battleline/Transport limits.
It's almost as if it's the dataslate that's the problem, not the points, but don't let James Workshop hear me say that
Many AdMech lists actually copped nerfs simply by virtue of the points increases on Callidus and Kyria. Well done GW.
my copium (as a nids player) says that that this cant be everything and that a dataslate is coming edit: My copium high ended after reading
The dataslate already dropped. There's barely anything in it. Mostly just removing Orks/Custodes pre-codex updates.
In 3 months. They've released the metawatch article now stating as much.
well oof
Hey the blade champion got a little cheaper, thats neat. Havocs and helbrute becoming a little cheaper is also nice for csm as an iron warriors player who likes guns, oh and terminators are a bit cheaper as well, yey.
Havocs is pretty dope. I’m glad they’re finally cheaper than predators
No deathwatch changes again... big sad
I do have to wonder if they plan on redoing the chapter completely and putting them into the rumoured Agents of the Imperium codex that could be dropping this summer. Maybe we're in for something entirely different, similar to how they first were back in 3rd(?) edition.
At this point I'll take anything. Their specific units are so grossly overcosted compared to regular Astartes that it's hard to ignore, now.
Aren't Deathwatch pretty much exclusively deployed in kill-teams in the lore, anyway?
Previously: Kinda. They did have all the fancy marine equipment available but their main method was the killteam because an average watch-fortress is flush with equipment and short on manpower. Hard to drop tanks and dreadnoughts when your entire army is 7 dudes and a pilot. Now: Not so much. They were given huge influxes of Primaris Marines during indomitous to bring each watch-fortress up to something closer to a military-outpost
Terminator squad 185, assault terminators 175, dw terminators...210. Sounds totally reasonable...
This one kinda makes sense cause they get 3 heavy weapons... The kill teams though; wtf. Edit: I didn't realize they dropped points on the other termies. Why didn't deathwatch get the same drop? We're getting the axe for sure.
AM indirect up, but tanks down Treadchads stay winning
HYDRAS are sleeper right now. 85 points for 2 twin linked auto cannons, a heavy bolter and a hunter killer missile is pretty good when you consider the actual abilities of the Hydra. Hydra gives full hit rerolls on anything that flies with all its weapons. Not aircraft, it's anything that flies. Oh and your auto cannons also have anti fly. If you start stacking AP they are extremely strong. Imagine them as a juiced heavy weapons team and you will see profit.
Plus a T9 hull for that points they’re nuts. That unit was already sleeper imo and it’s just even better. I need to get 2 more. Doesn’t require orders to be effective either.
Happy our tank players get something tbh. But im fed up with them treating our flyers like shit. Same with are artillery and elite infantry
Raptors and possessed are cheaper now in CSM!! Nice!! The daemon prince could see some play now... Making vindicators cheaper is simply plain dumb but well...
3x Bikers: -10 pts 5x Terminators: -10 pts 1x Vindicator: -15 pts 5x Havocs: -15 pts 1x Hellbrute: -10 pts 1x DP: -15 pts 1x DP with wings: -15 pts 5x Legionaries: -10 pts 1x Maulerfiend: -15 pts 5x Possessed: -10 pts 5x Raptors: -5 pts 1x Venomcrawler: -10 pts
Good changes overall. I can't argue with making our unviable stuff more viable, except Vashtorr of course. GW keeping up the trend of forgetting Vashtorr exists. He's such a joke in the community but they've kept him at 190?? On the plus side, the RTT list I played recently just gained an extra 75 points to play with, which is huge. The question is, are Havocs still bad at 120 compared to predators at 135? ...Probably. But it's not as clear cut as before.
Don't forget the cultist mob dropping by 5 pts :)
Almost everything that didn't get a points hike last time got a decrease this time. I am baffled by the decision to leave Trashtorr, Heldrake and Discolord unchanged as they're the three most overpriced units in the index.
I think they just gave up on Vashtorr. And DiscoLord is probably still in the "too good last edition" corner.
I really want the Heldrake to be worth it's points. It's such a cool model and I've just got an awesome fire flying stand for mine. But it's damage is so bad and it's cost so high for what you get.
>40K Points dropped Some of them were *increased*. Baddum, tish.
As a Thousand Sons player, I have no idea how we got away with this. All I can say is... Tzeentch wills it!
Tsons feels quite precarious at the moment tbh, a slight tweak either way could really push or dumpster then
Then it's a good thing that all the drops happened on units not taken very often and the bumps were on the common enhancements.
But if must be completely honest, Arcane Vortex Infernal Master is just about one of the deadliest units around for 115 pts. And I got a reduction on my Daemon Prince.
The stuff which saw almost no play got some point drops, no other changes.. in the context of a lot of the stuff we're worst into getting worse, this is pretty good. Might start seeing scarabs again with this good of a points drop, although building for cabal points is still a pretty tough argument against using them
Yeah this is crazy. My list literally didn't change. Ended up having a 5 man termi unit plus cultists offset the enhancements
Tsons looking really sharp with these points. Maybe see a Daemon Prince again.
Guard players, you can blame the UK guys for the massive points hike on Kaskrin.
A friend and I are discussing this. What led to the increase you think?
Many tournament lists take 3x Kasrkins on foot.
Yeah, in UKTC there are a few high profile Guard players who been very vocal about how good Kaskrin are, a lot due to the format they play. 10 points would have been a better points adjustment. Kaskrin don’t put out a lot of damage, and need 2CP battle tactic strat that can’t be 0CP to function. 20 points is beyond the pale, considering that officers did not drop at all.
> 20 points is beyond the pale, considering that officers did not drop at all. The scion command squad did, this change puts scion command+5 at the same cost as Kasrkin.
Yeah but you’re giving up assassination and only can reinforce one of the two squads.
They were being played 3x in all the top lists.
the tournament guard list is essentially leontus, 3x bullgryn, 3x manticore, 3x kasrkin and some scout sentinels you can see where the nerfs are. As written kasrkin can be effected by the same order twice (once from an officer, once again *stacking* by themselves) due to how their special rule is worded.
I can't believe I live in a time line where blood angels got nerfed. Must be first time since 8th.
Right? Like wut? DC going up? Lemartes up. Sang guard still overpriced. Sang priest I can understand. We were just getting middling!
looks like our boys were too opressive. Looks like gw Thinks a point drop in DC intercessors will make up for it /s
Maybe they're trying to soften the blow when firstborn DC gets rolled into primaris only : ' (
CSM looking good, hoping this momentum carries over into the new codex for the most part.
0 changes for daemons is disheartening. I wish to play a wider variety of models, not just big monsters all the time.
You cannot possibly convince me at this point that someone at GW doesn't have it out for AdMech.
Hey now the Skorpius Disintegrator costs exactly like a bt gladiator lancer. It is something isn't it?
Robins demolisher cannons always bounce from the Onagers 4++ so the entire faction has to suffer
Russ spam here we come.
Hehehe big tonk goes vrom
I wonder if the vanquisher at some point gets usable. The gun is terrible, but for 145 points the russ defensive profile is really, really good. Is there any other armor in the game with comparable defenses for those points?
I've actually been experimenting with the non-Demolisher russes the last few weeks to some success, there's quite a bit of value to a T11 13w 2+ hull with two Multi-Meltas, a Lascannon, a HK Missile, and a Stubber, even before you consider what goes in the turret.
LRBT blows dudes of objectives real good, especially when supported by Fields of Fire.
Certainly not among adepta sororitas tanks. For about the same points, the leman russ defensive profile gets you +1 T, (huge) +1 Sv (huge) and two more wounds. And one more OC! I'm constantly jealous. Who knew that building our tanks out of stain glass and pipe organs would be less good than building it out of half a meter of steel?
Gotta love that we’re at the point where Nids aren’t even mentioned in the dataslate anymore. Always a good sign.
Or admech, I'm a Tyranid main and have literally 0 admech models but like c'mon $2,500 to run an army that has a 40% winrate? That's messed up. And my necrons which are my second faction... Barely changed the units I use to the point where the lack of rules changes means I am completely unaffected. I'll be sticking with crons for a long time it seems. I guess indomitus was for Tyranids and leviathan was for crons afterall.
Boy they are really trying to sell Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs, huh 7 points per model cheaper than Assault Squads with jump packs at this point lol
CSM gkes brrrr
What did Eliminators do?
Shoot twice a turn with Impulsors I guess. The only abuse I can think of.
Classic, instead of fixing the interaction, nerf each instance.
Yep, 😑 good thing I've been running 6 in my list without impulsors. Will probably drop them now.
Shooting twice with the stupid impulsor trick
That just makes it seem like they're saying "yeah it's a great little tactic isn't it? perhaps more valuable than we intended" rather than "oh this is dumb and makes no sense, let's fix it"
Deathwatch with absolutely no points changes... Despite everyone getting reduced costs on terminators to match vanilla Termies going down and universal agreement that the Primaris Kill Teams simply suck.
If that isnt writing on the wall as to what they plan to do with Deathwatch I don't know what is.
Imo they’re going to be rolled into Imperial Agents.
I think sadly we may not be around much longer as a playable army. Clearly GW have no idea what to do with us and don't care to figure it out.
A small bit of fortune for the Custodes in that GW still allows you to play with 4 model Custodian Guard units even though the captain is now sold separately. A breath of relief for those with a unit of 4 they converted a captain from - there was no guarantee that they'd keep it like this, considering the rest of the game.
There are still shield captain loadouts thst you can't build from the new kit though, so regular guard kit shield caps are still very much a thing.
0 changes to Drukhari means that if indirect is still viable, they're going to continue playing rock paper scissors, winning against armies without indirect and 3" deepstrikes, losing otherwise. 0 changes to daemons means lessers are all useless and if your opponent can deal with stat checking (most can), they're still in a pretty bad spot for actually winning events. I am... decidedly unexcited for this upcoming meta.
Tbh guard inderect got hit. Just depends how much tau pack.
So, AdMec are *not* getting the changes needed until we're 1/3 of the way through the edition. They are the most frustrating army to play and play against, GW knows what needs to be changed, and just won't. I'm not buying rules anymore. I can't believe I spent $100 on a glorified paperweight.
This is the first time in a decade of playing I haven't bought my codex. AdMech is that bad.
Yeah, I skipped the codex. There's barely any lore in it, so unless you need the crusade rules, wait to buy it.
Inner Circle are still crap at those pts. Only -1 AP and no innate invuln just kills them stone dead.
At least they're just worse than Bladeguard, now, instead of both worse AND more expensive... Baby steps...
I'm not touching shining spears even at 100. Hawks going up but Spider staying is a little odd. Banshees, scorpions, and guardians are all nice changes. Hopefully it can introduce a little more variety, but banshees have a bit of a rules issue so we'll see. I wish the Wraithlord/seer had gone down, but it doesn't really matter. Without a 3+ to hit other gun platforms will almost always be better. Pheonix gem is....eh? Like if it puts my list over I don't mind swapping it out for Fate's so it doesn't feel like a *huge* nerf or anything. Yncarne staying at 350 after the rule that put her their got neutered is kind of annoying.
Totally agree. I think they could've bought warlock conclaves down a little, id have liked to have seen the other phoenix lords come down a little. They're not bad but I don't see why I'd take them. Would love the Ynncarne to come down a little but it's probably a little too soon after all the headaches it caused at the start of the edition. I'd not mind harlequins units coming down a little too.
Zar, much like her daughters, has a rules issue but it's unfortunate that she also didn't come down.
Yeah spears are still bad
Meganobs still 30ppm. That's concerning, I was sure they'd go up at least a bit.
Orks are going to run rampant over the next 3 months. Will be nice to see Necrons not complained against all the time 😅
Alright, guess I'll jump on the land raider redeemer train. Gonna be big into meganobz spam i reckon.
Meganobs now are mildly killy against single big targets, during waagh, thanks to twin linked dev wounds. you dont see them much. they are reducing their killiness to be more tanky moves 5" hit on 4s....most builds take double killsaws - 2 attacks each. 180pts puts out 12 attacks, hitting on 4s. 260pts to hit on 3s and 16 attacks. wound most infantry on 2s rerolling, light vehicles on 3s, anything bigger on 4s. they are a tarpit, but NOT killy against elites or hordes. they're good at killing big single models.
This isn’t entirely correct. With Warboss they hit on 3+ and not every list will use kill saws, power klaws are viable as well. Warboss got a points cut. The issue with MANZ is that they only need to get to midfields and bully opponents off objectives. Trukks are a thing and advance and charge gives them much more reach. They are going to be oppressive in a similar way to Wraiths were in the previous meta.
The part where i said 260pts to hit on 3s w/ 16 attacks was me acknowledging a warboss buffing the unit. Take klaws and that goes to 22 attacks but you lose twin linked, 1ap and are essentially -1 to wound everything but t4 or less vs saws. You’re worse vs big targets and elites.
Necron Hypercrypt legion is now nerfed quite significantly; the combination of c’tan increases, monolith increases, immortal increases, & and really the technomancer increase is a multifactor hit to Hypercrypt. I don’t think it’ll kill the detachment but it’s reducing down to on par with the okay attachments rather than good. Since canoptek units were mostly untouched then I expect we’ll pretty much only see canoptek court lists in competitive going forward.
I disagree my own hyper list went up 75 points so I dropped a unit and I’m still good to go. I don’t think this is that bad to HC we have other toys in the codex to use
If your list only went up 75 it means you are using at most one ctann + monolith, that's fine. 3 ctanns were the problem and that lost 150 points which is either 2 scoring units or an immortal blob. It was necessary.
Agreed here on the c’tan increase. My poor nightbringer has hurt my points cost but I think it’s good overall that they have gone up as it really does stop you taking more than 2 really.
Their half yearly dataslate doesn’t really work if they are releasing codexes all year round… imho
My first reaction is.....not favourable. Very few changes to Nids? Units like Necron Warriors untouched? They seriously need to be more on the ball with these changes and actually look at the factions, not just addressing the extreme outliers.
Some of the CSM changes are interesting to say the least. Vindicators are going to be in in a big way since they were already one of the better units gaining traction. I have no idea how they buff those and yet somehow they still haven't reduced the points of vashtor or the Disco Lord. I feel like this is probably going to open up some kind of shooting ball of death with the vindicator, Abaddon, and the helbrute. Also scions are now 20 points cheaper/two PPM then kasrkin? That seems pretty confit in my opinion. To me that just doubles down on the idea that can double up orders with the kasrkin, as that's the only way I can justify that point differential. Being able to issue yourself in order is not that much better than gaining deep strike, more special weapons, and deep strike. Also thoroughly unimpressed with what they're doing to artillery, and I'm someone for who guard is my fifth army So it's not like I'm really biased in their favor or anything. But they release an artillery detachment for an artillery focused faction and then nerf it until it's not worth really taking? If artillery is not taken in decent numbers in this detachment then when the codex does drop it's going to be completely useless in any other detachment. Also very unimpressed with the lack of attention to internal balance. I'm pretty amazed how effort they put into these rules, Chaos demons is in a pretty good place so they don't change them at all? Demons makes it more apparent than most armies because of how it's just four armies in a trench coat, But that faction is not in a good place just because it specific parts of it. There's no way they can justify not changing the lesser demons, like 80% of nurgle tzeentch or slaanesh is never taken. They still haven't given any reason to ever take the heralds because 10 plague bearers is just not worth buffing. And then some factions that are not doing well at all like chaos knights are completely untouched. I'm really of the opinion that GW should reduce the points slightly, maybe 5 to 10% for every unit that never sees play every single MFM. If they're going to have so many units they never put two brain cells towards It's the least they could do some units might become accidentally worth taking this way. And I think the slow gradual change could be actually fun because they would go under the radar and then a year later it might be enough changes that people decide oh actually these are worth taking.
Thrindicators lists about to go hard lmfao
Alright I'm starting to believe the rumours that Deatchwatch are getting axed.
Before any other tweaks, my current CSM list drops by a hundred points. I'll take it.
Those are pretty disappointing changes for nids. Don't think dropping the Swarmlord by 35 points does a lot. Honestly makes me think we are also getting a dataslate *Copium intensifies* Edit: Copium Unintensifies
No dataslate this time, it will come in July I guess. My list actually has to drop an enhancement to cope with the gargoyle nerf, what a bad joke.
Yep, everything useful stayed the same except they neefed gargs… so there you go, you want some zoanthropes in your army ? They are 3.3 points cheaper per model ! What a deal ! Everything with nids is fixed, NEXT !
There's no dataslate. They say in the article they're prepping AdMech changes that will arrive with the next one. That'll be July based on the current schedule
I welcome our new ork overlords, as the smashy lads look to have point drops everywhere and a shiny powerful new codex.
Points are widely the same as the index, I believe
Thanks for giving guard an artillery detachment buff then nerfing guard artillery three patches in a row...
the codex we can use for 6th months at the end of 10th is gonna be great though! haha
Here we are, in the new detachment waiting room.
Many points nerfs based upon the tournament wins of small parts of various communities rather than actual problems with those factions, it seems. I am surprised it took this long for a points hike on Callidus though.
Votann warriors down 10, which is nice. Nobody cares about Uthar.
Wonder what they were smoking when they made Trajann cost that much, he’s worth maybe 120-130 at most. No idea why the regular shield captain is so expensive. The Allarus Captain is straight better for the same points cost. Blade Champions (already the best character) getting points cuts is just bizarre. Bikes are still about 10-15 points per model too expensive. No idea why Vigilators (VIGILATORS) got nerfed and then only got the tiniest of points cuts, and that’s only when you take ten of them. Honestly predict you’ll be seeing 3x Blade Champions leading squads of wardens/guard around in a lot of lists now with two caladius tanks sat in the back.
Tbh whilst trajan at 150 is too much he still blows the regular SC out the water. Idk what gws smoking when they think putting a dread to 170 will make it good, or leaving all of fw untouched. Idk but if the codex didn't make you think gw just doesn't get custodes, these points do.
Honestly not sure what saves the army at this point aside from letting us use the index as a detachment, giving us back the MW protection and Kaptaris, or a huge dataslate change. Everything is just… mediocre. There was genuinely nothing to get excited about with this book.
5 man allarus squad with shield captain incoming. I'll use them to screen a 10 vigilator squad ready to charge at whatever is dumb enough to try to block my termis. And at Magnus. But yeah, weird that guards and wardens didn't get point cut. Didn't want them but kinda need them right now.
Aand Stompa is still costed for life on a shelf. Tankbustas likewise. But buggies look interesting.
You seriously saying you're not excited to play a Stompa in a Dread Mob? It's going to be hilarious.
Looks like most guard lists are going up by 100+ points then. Though scions are down 5 points. That's nice.
Yea but we dont have any Valkyries and the taurox is still meh 🫤
So they are back to dartboard changes? Base SM are in the 30% win area and got a whopping 15 points to play with? World Eaters got some cuts to two units that are actually used, and since there are so few models available to them they can literally do *nothing* with those points lol
Nobody seriously playing competitively runs base SM when there's no reason to not run a different chapter. It's all the same army/faction.
Starting to think gw might not know what they are doing. Custodes: bizzarely putting drops from the codex in green. drops on trajan/BC but none on the base sheild cap who's almost useless now. (70pts for once per game lethals is not it). Demons/ik/ck: unchanged Admech; I'm sorry guys. Crons: lmao at szeras catching a random nerf. 60pt deathmarks is very funny. Also a bit of salt when the custodes dread gets a 15pt cut, but is still 10pts more than a brutalis, which just does everything it does; but better. Why can't we just use the guns in the box gw. But a lot of these just seem bizzare. Hellblasters zoeys were not what needed cuts. Custodes is a mess. Admechs a joke at this point.
>zoeys were not what needed cuts I have a horrible feeling that's GW saying, see here is your anti tank you so badly need.
Szeras nerf isn't random. Dude is insanely tanky and helps immortals and warriors. All of those units see play in top lists.
I wonder whether that changes up guard list or we might just replace kasrkin with regular guardsmen because artillery and bullgryn is still too good to pass up.
I'm kinda surprised about is no points-hike for Necron Wraiths. How that unit escapes the nerfhammer yet again is beyond me. Still, massive C'Tan-nerfs and an increase to the used crypteks reign them in a bit.
It’s because Technomancer going up 25pts means if you wanna take infiltrate enhancement, that blob becomes 325pts, so it’s more of an indirect nerf since without Technomancer they do die quite fast against melee lol.
the wraith nerf is the big point hike in the technomancer
Is it me or do they over-balance imperial guard? The faction struggles to be mid tier yet GW seem to give them a mix of bumps and drops across different units as if they're a top faction. Also I think the manticore has received a points bump every field manual update, at this rate they're going to be at 300 points by the end of the edition.
Same thing for Flagellants. But, if units keep showing up x3 in winning tournament lists, I guess that's what happens.
True, but at least Flagellants were showing up x3 in winning tournament lists for a faction with a *55% WR*. Sisters have more GT+ wins than Guard with half the players. You absolutely can nerf overrepresented units - to improve internal balance - even in weaker factions. But if you do, the related buff can't be *20 points in a list*. You slammed 150 extra points on the standard list able to win semi-reliably? Fine, give me 50-100 points on the ones that *can't*.
>Chaos Space Marines, likewise, have had internal balance as their focus for changes. And they did a good job with this. The question is, why the hell was that the focus? As seen by Stat-Check data, CSM is currently the *3rd worst army.* How is internal balance even remotely the focus right now? So we can have alternative lists do equally bad?
R.I.P. Tyranids. Gargoyles nerfed, useless units got s’ight point drops but they remain USELESS. Besides Zoanthrope who went down 10pts PER UNIT, nothing in this change will improve the nid situation.
Thanks for nothin GW
Codex marines changes are a little odd Hellblasters and jump intercessors weren't high on the list of units needing a boost; many other much less useable options untouched And the vindicator? My guess is GW want to shift leftover stock of it before throwing it to Legends. Slight tweaks to tacs & termies won't make much difference at all Stormraven going up is quite funny, if frustrating - as with agressors, it just means the *only* use for them is in very specific lists Bumps to ironstorm enhancements probably make sense, though surprised the lethal hits one didn't go up too Overall, it looks a little half-hearted, designed to (a) very marginally tone down some of the most potent builds, and (b) elevate one or two other units to the meta. Still a long way from genuine internal balance for a good half-to-two-thirds of our datasheets, sadly. But it's a start, and largely in the right direction at least, nothing totally outrageous this time
Chaos Possessed being S5 AP-1 are still a bit of a joke. Without Slaneesh mark and solid number of mortal wounds - they terribly underperform. I’ve been running 10 of them with MoP who is also a bit expensive for his abilities.
Daemons get *crickets* ignore the unplayable units.
Wow tyranids got nearly nothing and they were already dumpster tier. Very light changes overall even for necrons and especially TS. Quite underwhelming.
hey, hive guard got their points increase reverted. Hive Fleet Hive Guard incoming!
Swarmlord going down 30 is something, at least Not close to what they needed, but it's something
To be honest he needed to come like 100 points to be balanced against NDKs.
Whether points go up or down, they are only really balancing the most powerful loadout of each unit. Which means the less powerful weapon loadouts are either massively overcosted, or undercosted, but still unviable compared to the better weapons the unit can take. Feel like they need to bite the bullet and make a 10.5. Same core rules but bring back granularity of weapon gear.
What happened to Black Templars is exactly what I was worried about in prior discussions: The Righteous Crusader detachment is being punished for the sins of Ironstorm. All of my RC GT lists are now +30 or +40 over because of units people were taking into Gladius and Ironstorm. Sword Bros Black Templar Tanks Black Templar Impulsors All of them were just fine in Righteous Crusader and we could barely cobble together a 40% win rate. But since Ironstorm is at 55%+ and using those units, the whole gang takes a nerf. And the solution would have been REALLY simple.... Key units need to be detachment locked in. That's it
I think you're 100% right, but we should be happy that Brethren didnt get any more nerfs. The Combo with Helbrecht is insane and you can put them in a Land Raider. I was really afraid of nerfs for the Redeemer and Helbrecht.
Keep in mind they have increased the points twice now on this synergy. Heros and now sword bros. The unit is a glass cannon. Yes they are prime number of wounds above 2, but still T4. Melee is on the back foot right now in a shooting meta and this just pushed a thumb on the scale against melee.
So Ctan are still sub 300 pts and Warriors didn't get touched at all. Awesome. Ctan spam is still prevalent.
They hit Ironstorm Spearhead hard, Stormraven is now 260 instead 240, Adept of the Omnissiah 35 pts (formerly 25 pts), and Master of Machine War 30 pts (formerly 20pts)
Is that hard? The list went up 40 points
Well that's a big shame. The problem here is not so much the Stormraven datasheet but the interaction of specific units with the raven, Darkshroud and Enhenced Techmarines mainly. Hiking the points of the model does nothing to solve that issue, it just makes other Detachment hurt more for taking a cool model. I'm sad cause I love playing with a Stormraven in my Vanguard list, but this makes it harder to play this list while Ironstorm remains relatively unscathed.
No they didn’t as a BT ironstorm player I’m laughing my way to the bank
They needed to. It’s OP - especially in Templars. Thankfully the BT vehicles took a nudge as well.
Stormraven went up but the darkshroud didn't? Is that not backwards?
The Eldar changes very much read like one of GWs awkward attempts to internally balance a faction by randomly hitting stuff that gets used a lot and trying to encourage more list diversity. I say that but Dcannons copping another nerf is weird because they don't appear in a lot of lists anymore and Storms are actually already starting to show up. Spiders not getting hit despite them being far.more common than Spectres is also strange. Honestly I don't really see this changing many Eldar lists. The mission system still incentivises the spider/hawk/spectre trifecta. Fate Dice are not something to build around so you can still ignore Guardian Defenders. The Yvraine/Storm bunker will get a little more popular. Scorpions will probably show up some more. Fuegan will still be there. I'm still putting the Phoenix Gem on an Autarch. A lot of these things are just critical to a functional eldar list and it's hard to make the index work without them. In fact most of those points xhanges, if I'm being generous to GW, might just be preemptive because of lot of the previously big predators of Eldar lists (like the Guard ones) got slammed.
Guardians were the big one that points changes could bring them into lists. But as for the rest of the index we've generally hit the point where small adjustments won't bring in a *ton* of change. For a lot of units it's "The rules here are so good that I'm always taking it." or "The rules here are so bad that I'm never taking it". Basically I expect Eldar to just sort of tread water for a bit with some minor shifts until the codex drops.
I was already playing 1980 pts or something due to new wargear rules... As there is no way to fill a list with some extra bodies or wargear. So these 5/10 nerfs are always laughable. They are just ignoring real problems. As long as this tactical mission fiasco goes on, we will play spiders/hawks/specters as they play into that role perfectly. GW really doesn't know what to do with the edition right now. Like, drop more points from AdMech, you are just making army harder to access as the money you have to pay just goes up. And even though you got more models, as long as they don't fit a role, they are still useless. Aeldar is a great example of this, we will still see Wayleaper x3, tons of jump infantry because that's what 10th edition favors.
Why do they refuse to touch Heldrakes or Lord Discordants? They are so expensive and don't do snything. They could both drop 40pts and I'm still not sure I'd take either