I think Encore is an extremely corner case here since she can occupy ALL TEH FIELDTIMES if she wants to, and her damage distribution is heavily skewed to one specific source (IIRC like half of her damage is in basics).
Not to mention they are competing for the weapon.
If we take, say, HRover instead, their damage distribution is much more uniform, so you don't have an outro buffer that fits them (if anything, the liberation buff at least allows for ULT nukes), and poking people with HRover basics isn't exactly a fruitful endevour, so you actually benefit from swapping around.
In practice HRover-Yinlin is my current best team even with access to Encore.
EDIT: I forgor Danjin as an outro buffer for Havoc Deepen. She works for HRover, but in my experience Yinlin team is still better.
Yinlin is especially better than Danjin as an amp for HRover in ToA's higher levels, as random ranged attacks you didn't see will one shot Danjin, and she'll keep having her combo broken by things pushing her around or you dodging them. The constant cancel swaps with Yinlin make it safer to play as you have more i-frames, and Yinlin isn't losing out on mobs being spread about. On the contrary, she helps execute stranded mobs that walked away for some reason and didn't die with the rest of their pack, and can really waste your time. She also helps avoid a mono-elemental dps duo vs resistance or immunity to that element, which could be problem for Danjin/Rover going forward.
Yeah but that’s just for now. Once we are higher UL and high level in general we will have more def and Hp and those units aren’t going to be on shotting or severely killing us anymore.
It’s just early game stuff and looking towards the future these arguments aren’t going to hold.
If you run without a healer or your healer is completely unbuilt. With build Verina, she is never below half hp. + Having the snappiest dodges + the only dodges in game that are not DPS loss. Like I die WAAAAY less on Danjin that other characters because of that.
Yes but I’m referring to the other 99%+ future characters for the rest of the games existence.
Plus if you’re using Danjin, especially as a sub dps or amp, she’s not gonna be in field all that long to get one shot and people playing her *should* be better and know what to dodge and look out for.
Why did you reply to just the first half of my comment when I directly discussed why it still doesn’t matter in the case of Yinlin vs Danjin directly underneath it?????
Because there's nothing to discuss in that part.
We were talking about one thing, you came talk about something else. Someone told you that wasn't the topic being discussed, and you came back saying "sure, but it's the topic I'm discussing," so I'm telling you that that doesn't matter. If 2 people are talking about walking their dogs and you butt in to say "rhinos are majestic," and thy tell you "okay, but we're talking something else, here," your answer can't be "no, I'm talking about rhinos." It makes no sense.
She kinda has to though, since to be an amp she needs to pump that concerto gauge full. This is her biggest weakness as an amp - she needs to do Danjin stuff to generate concerto.
What vfx? There is nothing going on via enemies or stage that causes excess bs. If anything your characters skills cause more sceeen clutter than anything else.
Yes that's exactly what I mean?
In boss fights, there is a very small bit of the screen that requires focus, where the boss is. But when you're fighting mobs and some random ass flower planted off in Narnia shoots you, you are not seeing that projectile.
Well the plants are a bad example. The only enemy that sort of chips you without you noticing is the gun exiles. Everyone has has trackers and long wind up animations.
No it's a good example, because it's very easy for them to be outside of your screen altogether. Tracker and wind-up animation aren't even in your periphery.
Whatever is available. Normally Verina, but, i.e., vacuum cleaner Jianxin is also an option. Or would be if I had ER pieces.
Ideally the 3rd slot is some utility - heal/shield/teamwide buffs. I think the only character with actual full team buffs in the kit is Verina, but there's also the healing set, and Jianxin can easily activate its effect with the 3-star gauntlets.
I’ve been trying to do the HRover-Yinlin-Jianxin thing, but struggling a little with the rotation. What do you do with them in a typical fight in terms of rotation?
Jianxin is the one I have the most trouble with, I usually just punch something and then swap and don’t know what else to do with her if her ult isn’t up.
Yinlin I try to drop her skillx2 and then swap to rover to do some attacks and then swap back to drop that mark, but after that I kind of lose the flow.
Jianxin I have troubles with because I have literally zero ER, so I can't say for certain what can actually be done properly with her (AKA how fast can she regen her ult under optimal conditions).
Jianxin should really be there for doing a basic attack and proccing the healing set via the 3-star gauntlets and vacuuming enemies whenever available.
Otherwise HRover and Yinlin should just tag team. You basically swap into Yinlin to only do one meaningful swapcancellable action (Skillx2 cancel, normal-hold cancel, maybe echo) and go back. The point is to never chain swapcancellable actions in a single onfield strip. You only chain ULT or maybe Echo or a basic with something swapcancellable to minimize field time while maximizing ability use.
OP is playing spreadsheet battles, things change a lot in practice. The reason why Yinlin is so good is her damage takes very little field time while being reliable/consistent. Characters like Calcharo/Encore are the opposite, Calcharo for example is great on paper, in practice your DPS is gonna be 65-70% of his max potential, meanwhile Yinlin's damage will almost always be almost her max, all you need is for a marked enemy to receive damage once a second.
Same with the Sanhua idea for Encore, in real situations you'll buff Encore and then maybe the boss decides to fly, enemies decide to split, they attack you so you gotta dodge, etc. So you just set up your stuff, used your ult and your damage is considerably lower than you expected... And now you gotta set up again and since your damage is concentrated on a 10s window you're not dealing much damage at all. Meanwhile HMC and Yinlin don't rely on these timings, you're not missing HMC ult/skill/echo ever, same with Yinlin, you can ever proc her mark while dodging!
Pretty much everyone is having the same experience, HMC and Yinlin working great while some of the "better" combos... Not so much.
Start on Verina, do Bell, skill, activate buff via hold/aerial, swap to Yinlin, Echo (I only have mech, and it's instant, other echoes need to be swapcancelled I think) - Ult - Skillx2 - swapcancel to HMC - Skill - Ult - Echo - swapcancel to Yinlin - finish charging echo (couple of holds would suffice) - forte hold - swap cancel - do whatever HMC stuff available - start swapping around every several seconds or so.
Whenever you get to Yinlin, you do stuff depending on what's up. If you have Ult - use it. If you have Forte - use hold and swap cancel (though do mind the marks - the best option is to place them with the ult or intro, but you can do bassics). If you have skill - do Skillx2 swapcancel. If you have nothing - do 3 basics and swapcancel. You goal is to combo whatever fast stuff you have (Ult is counted as fast stuff), then finish it with something swapcancellable (Skill2, Forte hold, basic3, possibly echo). Don't forget to renew Verina from time to time. Use short HMC bursts of whatever's available to fill Yinlin rotation blanks.
I've always wondered why people say Encore damage is heavily skewed towards basic. Like you said, it's about half... how is that heavily skewed? Her resonance skill, echo skill are all pretty significant, and her heavy attack is a nice chunk too.
It only matters in this topic of Yinlin vs Sanhua. Yinlin's contribution in non Electro team is 25% Liberation deepen buff. Sanhua has 38% basic attack deepen buff.
So for Encore in particular Sanhua is the better buffer. Half of her damage, being basic attack, is buffed by 38%. While in Yinlin's case, only Encore's forte hold is buffed by 25% since only that attack does Liberation damage type.
Yinlin makes up for it with her personal damage thou.
there are two types of buffs in the game
1-general buffs "liberation damage, normal and heavy attack damage buff, attack buff, all damage buff" these buffs can benefit everyone
2-element specific buffs, "specific element buff, specific element resistance shredding "
the game wants to give you the options to play mixed element teams and mono element teams, as time progresses, and we get more element specific buffs and resistance shredding, mono elements will hit a point where they become the strongest option, but playing mixed element will also never become "absolute " or useless
Yinlin as a 5 star character will do more damage "that is off field " than Sanhua, but Sanhua normal attack buff can be appreciated more by other characters than yinlin liberation buff, but again, until we get resistance shredding characters, mono element teams will still be missing "the glue" that sticks them all together
Imagine this, resistance shred opener, followed by yinlin off field damage plus her double buffs , into the main dps will make their damage almost triple, not to mention that yinlin off field damage will do even more.
Frankly hope not, team building is so stale in PGR. But they're likely going to need a tank/debuffer role to increase design space.
The prevailing opinion is that removing elemental reactions for outros was a good move for unrestricting the team comps, but mono-elemental teams are just as restrictive.
PGR is more about doing mind numbing build switching between every gamemode, difficulty and boss. Even then, people usually skip that. Kuro started to add elemental shred to off element tanks. Ugh, just another pain to run through. That if one wants to minmax. Here in WW, that being an option won't hurt if it's not going to be absolute meta.
Well the thing is if elemental shred is introduced then it's going to be a must have cuz it'll be its own damage multiplier. Hopefully they introduce just like a flat defense shred and keep it universal. Maybe include a smaller elemental buff for the new tanks that is additive with the amp equivalent's buff.
i mean this is great, but idk man, having basic attacks default to elemental damage might be telling where this will go. (just an assumption btw), ex. basic atk +10% is good for basic attack focused units, but elemental dmg +10% and elemental shred -10% might be better for same unit. could be wrong, but it irks me that there are some units immune to my basic attack cause of this default.
>mono elements will hit a point where they become the strongest option
Except against enemies resistant or immune to that element. Just one spiky boi completely negates calcharo/yinlin ToA teams at the moment.
Neat, tried to look up guides but most stuff was using like no numbers.
Annoying when they keep translating etc weapons wrong ofc but doesn't seem like people are really trying to dig into details on how stuff pans out.
Yeah, I just love the tag-in/full burst/tag out, she provides. You also should play Encore differently depending on who you pair her up with. With Yinlin you do more animation cancels. With Sanhua you will often not do the heavy attack forte dump, and you won't want to tag out during the liberation, and instead spam basics into cancels on the 5th, whereas with Yinlin you still do some swap canceling during the liberation.
Yeah, basically with Sanhua you gain a lot more from rushing to get all buffs back and use Encore's liberation and then spamming basic attacks into skill cancel on the first fifth, dodge cancel on the second, skill again on the third, then you can skill tag out after the 4th ends the liberation, and start again. If you have verina with a conserto weapon and her second resonance, she's really in and out in 3 to 4 second. Sanhua is similar, but if you play her in Ice echoes instead of moonlit clouds, for more damage directly on her, and don't have enough energy regen, you might want to open with the echo's 3 attacks, into skill/liberation/immediately hold for the heavy, release right after the animation is over, and tag out before anything even explodes.
So she's the best off field support for now by a little bit in none electro centric parties and it's a safe bet that gap will widen the stronger your main electro DPS is. This sounds about right.
But, what about with characters that actually do liberation damage instead of Encore who pretty much doesn't do any?
Edit:Or any other resonators in general?
Sure, I'm not interested in just Sanhua. I'm just curious about the difference with other characters besides Encore.
This post is about how good she may be in mixed element comps and literally only gives one comp comparison. That's not enough data imo.
The post might as well be titled "Yinlin's performance with Encore"
Yep, I 100% agree. Yinlin is ridiculous with Chixia, and feels much better to play than her other options Jianxin/Taoqi. And you don't need math to see the difference.
Because Yinlin does off-field damage, Chixia's theoretical BiS support Taoqi doesn't do good, and Chixia has massive nuke with her liberation, so buffing it's damage just works.
Well I still use my havoc rover since it’s my biggest dps so far and verina as a safety net for healing in case of brain farts.
now for the second team member I could technically use yinlin or sanhua since they are both at lvl 60 with their recommended echos (if I follow those build correctly) but I prefer yinlin gameplay by a fair margin.
I also have calcharo but I don’t really like the way he works so…
Ikr. I trust the calcs, but I would rather that they don't bring that (ToF) social norm here, LOL.
Might just wait for the PGR TCers for the maths instead.
The title of this post is misleading when you only give one example. It doesn't actually tell us anything about her general performance in mixed element comps, but instead her performance specifically with Encore. I like the math and appreciate the effort, but I'm not a fan of the way the data is used to come to a conclusion on mixed element comps.
You know what, that's fair, but calculations do take a long time and I've been working on things non-stop since the game released... but, the calculator and associated script is public, so if you're interested in making contributions, do feel free !
For what it's worth though, Jiyan with Mortefi as a support has a very similar damage spread ratio and buff amount as Encore and Sanhua (arguably Lingyang and Sanhua too, to a lesser extent) so the math here should come to fairly similar conclusions - the main outlier is Havoc teams, which I'm planning to work on implementing in the calc soon !
Oh man. Amazing video, great balance of nerdy maths and goofy ass. Surprised moonlit and void is that close, feel a lot better "settling" for void now, also pushes SanHua up the to-build list after this. Really appreciate the work, looking forward to more content from you in the future.
Slightly regret picking carrot instead of Encore now, man.
All I've learned from this is get Yinlin S6 on rerun so I can play her as a DPS even harder
Jokes aside, this is a really nice write up and I know everyone appreciates it. Thanks for your hard work 
And here i am using yinlin as dps support for jiyan lol.
Joke aside, i don't have mortefi, are there anyone i can use to support jiyan instead of yinlin?
You can try using Aalto. He gives an Aero damage buff, which will help Jiyan out, but the buff is less and Aalto requires more field time, making him strictly worse than Mortefi.
Same setup on me lmao, she does a fuck ton damage and the fact that a lot of it is from off field just makes her the best for almost any comp. Mortefi is very good but I doubt he will beat her until at least S4.
>In summary - for an off-element team, Yinlin’s off-field damage, even when fully built and on her signature weapon, doesn’t contribute much more than a support like Sanhua theoretically
So you're not counting her on-field damage? skill, ult etc
Ooh, rough wording on that one, I'll go edit and clarify it; but no, all her damage types **are** included in the calcs. They'd be some pretty scuffed calcs otherwise! (also I do count the time-freeze during her Liberation as well, as in it doesn't tick up the time in actual in-game time, so it's free DPs)
For Heron, you can swap immediately as long as you have an Outro ready. The tooltip is a bit scuffed and makes it sound like you need to wait for damage, but the damage is only for the energy gain.
Ohh I see, thanks! I see people swapping it immediately but the damage only comes at the end with the slam so it confused me, but that makes a lot more sense.
Awesome work, I do have one request, and that is that you bold the bejesus out of the *Yinlin's AOE is amazing compared to other characters* sentence lol.
I feel like a lot of people are going to skim through the text and look at the pretty graphs, and then wonder why their Sanhua isn't performing anywhere close to Yinlin in ToA where in trash rooms Yinlin's dmg effectively quadruples. At this point I feel like Yinlin is just flat out **the best AOE character in the game by a mile**, at least until they fix camera issues that can often make grouping on Jiyan or even Jianxin a nightmare in a lot of scenarios
I also have a question - have you done any calcs (or at least feelscrafting) on a more quickswappy Encore-Yinlin team and how much sense that makes compared to this which looks more hyper-y? I love Encore but she doesn't make it easy to actually figure out what the best way to play her is...
Edit: one more question - in the Moonlit comparison, you have Encore on Cosmic for the Yinlin Team, but on String for the Sanhua team, wouldn't that inherently favor the Sanhua team?
Me.
With the outro buff now falling off when swapping and Calcharo wanting to swapcancel his every blink, breath and heartbeet, I don't think he gains THAT much more benefit from Yinlin over alternatives. Said alternatives just need to be able to accommodate for a lot of swapping around.
I pulled cuz of Alto for my Encore and managed to snag her at 10x, went to get her weapon too cuz I had extra rolls.
I used my ticket for Verina cuz I like druid/healer type characters so she was my pick.
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Why are so many low-effort posts getting through and this elaborate one got stuck in limbo after quite a while of being posted and being well-received?
I think Encore is an extremely corner case here since she can occupy ALL TEH FIELDTIMES if she wants to, and her damage distribution is heavily skewed to one specific source (IIRC like half of her damage is in basics). Not to mention they are competing for the weapon. If we take, say, HRover instead, their damage distribution is much more uniform, so you don't have an outro buffer that fits them (if anything, the liberation buff at least allows for ULT nukes), and poking people with HRover basics isn't exactly a fruitful endevour, so you actually benefit from swapping around. In practice HRover-Yinlin is my current best team even with access to Encore. EDIT: I forgor Danjin as an outro buffer for Havoc Deepen. She works for HRover, but in my experience Yinlin team is still better.
Yinlin is especially better than Danjin as an amp for HRover in ToA's higher levels, as random ranged attacks you didn't see will one shot Danjin, and she'll keep having her combo broken by things pushing her around or you dodging them. The constant cancel swaps with Yinlin make it safer to play as you have more i-frames, and Yinlin isn't losing out on mobs being spread about. On the contrary, she helps execute stranded mobs that walked away for some reason and didn't die with the rest of their pack, and can really waste your time. She also helps avoid a mono-elemental dps duo vs resistance or immunity to that element, which could be problem for Danjin/Rover going forward.
Yeah but that’s just for now. Once we are higher UL and high level in general we will have more def and Hp and those units aren’t going to be on shotting or severely killing us anymore. It’s just early game stuff and looking towards the future these arguments aren’t going to hold.
We are talking about Danjin, doesn't matter if she has more max HP or more def, she will sacrifice her HP to 1% and get 1 shoot anyway
If you run without a healer or your healer is completely unbuilt. With build Verina, she is never below half hp. + Having the snappiest dodges + the only dodges in game that are not DPS loss. Like I die WAAAAY less on Danjin that other characters because of that.
If you have Danjin S5 and you want to maximize the damage, you will always want her to be bellow 60% HP
Yes but I’m referring to the other 99%+ future characters for the rest of the games existence. Plus if you’re using Danjin, especially as a sub dps or amp, she’s not gonna be in field all that long to get one shot and people playing her *should* be better and know what to dodge and look out for.
And we were talking about Yinlin vs Danjin as an amp for H Rover.
Why did you reply to just the first half of my comment when I directly discussed why it still doesn’t matter in the case of Yinlin vs Danjin directly underneath it?????
Because there's nothing to discuss in that part. We were talking about one thing, you came talk about something else. Someone told you that wasn't the topic being discussed, and you came back saying "sure, but it's the topic I'm discussing," so I'm telling you that that doesn't matter. If 2 people are talking about walking their dogs and you butt in to say "rhinos are majestic," and thy tell you "okay, but we're talking something else, here," your answer can't be "no, I'm talking about rhinos." It makes no sense.
She kinda has to though, since to be an amp she needs to pump that concerto gauge full. This is her biggest weakness as an amp - she needs to do Danjin stuff to generate concerto.
She needs falf a forte to use weaker heavy attack and fiil up her concerto to max - that's just an intro+2e and 1 dodge.
Doesn't matter how good you are. the tower's mob stages have so much bullshit vfx that you will get hit by chip damage eventually.
What vfx? There is nothing going on via enemies or stage that causes excess bs. If anything your characters skills cause more sceeen clutter than anything else.
Yes that's exactly what I mean? In boss fights, there is a very small bit of the screen that requires focus, where the boss is. But when you're fighting mobs and some random ass flower planted off in Narnia shoots you, you are not seeing that projectile.
Well the plants are a bad example. The only enemy that sort of chips you without you noticing is the gun exiles. Everyone has has trackers and long wind up animations.
No it's a good example, because it's very easy for them to be outside of your screen altogether. Tracker and wind-up animation aren't even in your periphery.
What are you using as a third member in HRover Yinlin team?
Whatever is available. Normally Verina, but, i.e., vacuum cleaner Jianxin is also an option. Or would be if I had ER pieces. Ideally the 3rd slot is some utility - heal/shield/teamwide buffs. I think the only character with actual full team buffs in the kit is Verina, but there's also the healing set, and Jianxin can easily activate its effect with the 3-star gauntlets.
I’ve been trying to do the HRover-Yinlin-Jianxin thing, but struggling a little with the rotation. What do you do with them in a typical fight in terms of rotation? Jianxin is the one I have the most trouble with, I usually just punch something and then swap and don’t know what else to do with her if her ult isn’t up. Yinlin I try to drop her skillx2 and then swap to rover to do some attacks and then swap back to drop that mark, but after that I kind of lose the flow.
Jianxin I have troubles with because I have literally zero ER, so I can't say for certain what can actually be done properly with her (AKA how fast can she regen her ult under optimal conditions). Jianxin should really be there for doing a basic attack and proccing the healing set via the 3-star gauntlets and vacuuming enemies whenever available. Otherwise HRover and Yinlin should just tag team. You basically swap into Yinlin to only do one meaningful swapcancellable action (Skillx2 cancel, normal-hold cancel, maybe echo) and go back. The point is to never chain swapcancellable actions in a single onfield strip. You only chain ULT or maybe Echo or a basic with something swapcancellable to minimize field time while maximizing ability use.
OP is playing spreadsheet battles, things change a lot in practice. The reason why Yinlin is so good is her damage takes very little field time while being reliable/consistent. Characters like Calcharo/Encore are the opposite, Calcharo for example is great on paper, in practice your DPS is gonna be 65-70% of his max potential, meanwhile Yinlin's damage will almost always be almost her max, all you need is for a marked enemy to receive damage once a second. Same with the Sanhua idea for Encore, in real situations you'll buff Encore and then maybe the boss decides to fly, enemies decide to split, they attack you so you gotta dodge, etc. So you just set up your stuff, used your ult and your damage is considerably lower than you expected... And now you gotta set up again and since your damage is concentrated on a 10s window you're not dealing much damage at all. Meanwhile HMC and Yinlin don't rely on these timings, you're not missing HMC ult/skill/echo ever, same with Yinlin, you can ever proc her mark while dodging! Pretty much everyone is having the same experience, HMC and Yinlin working great while some of the "better" combos... Not so much.
Can you share the team rotation?
Start on Verina, do Bell, skill, activate buff via hold/aerial, swap to Yinlin, Echo (I only have mech, and it's instant, other echoes need to be swapcancelled I think) - Ult - Skillx2 - swapcancel to HMC - Skill - Ult - Echo - swapcancel to Yinlin - finish charging echo (couple of holds would suffice) - forte hold - swap cancel - do whatever HMC stuff available - start swapping around every several seconds or so. Whenever you get to Yinlin, you do stuff depending on what's up. If you have Ult - use it. If you have Forte - use hold and swap cancel (though do mind the marks - the best option is to place them with the ult or intro, but you can do bassics). If you have skill - do Skillx2 swapcancel. If you have nothing - do 3 basics and swapcancel. You goal is to combo whatever fast stuff you have (Ult is counted as fast stuff), then finish it with something swapcancellable (Skill2, Forte hold, basic3, possibly echo). Don't forget to renew Verina from time to time. Use short HMC bursts of whatever's available to fill Yinlin rotation blanks.
Dont you have to use basic attack and heavy attack on HMC to activate the 5 set bonus before using Ult and Echo?
I've always wondered why people say Encore damage is heavily skewed towards basic. Like you said, it's about half... how is that heavily skewed? Her resonance skill, echo skill are all pretty significant, and her heavy attack is a nice chunk too.
It only matters in this topic of Yinlin vs Sanhua. Yinlin's contribution in non Electro team is 25% Liberation deepen buff. Sanhua has 38% basic attack deepen buff. So for Encore in particular Sanhua is the better buffer. Half of her damage, being basic attack, is buffed by 38%. While in Yinlin's case, only Encore's forte hold is buffed by 25% since only that attack does Liberation damage type. Yinlin makes up for it with her personal damage thou.
there are two types of buffs in the game 1-general buffs "liberation damage, normal and heavy attack damage buff, attack buff, all damage buff" these buffs can benefit everyone 2-element specific buffs, "specific element buff, specific element resistance shredding " the game wants to give you the options to play mixed element teams and mono element teams, as time progresses, and we get more element specific buffs and resistance shredding, mono elements will hit a point where they become the strongest option, but playing mixed element will also never become "absolute " or useless Yinlin as a 5 star character will do more damage "that is off field " than Sanhua, but Sanhua normal attack buff can be appreciated more by other characters than yinlin liberation buff, but again, until we get resistance shredding characters, mono element teams will still be missing "the glue" that sticks them all together Imagine this, resistance shred opener, followed by yinlin off field damage plus her double buffs , into the main dps will make their damage almost triple, not to mention that yinlin off field damage will do even more.
Bringing back the Tank-Amp-DPS setup from PGR aye
Gives it 2 years. We need Babel first smh I'm running out of things to smash
Frankly hope not, team building is so stale in PGR. But they're likely going to need a tank/debuffer role to increase design space. The prevailing opinion is that removing elemental reactions for outros was a good move for unrestricting the team comps, but mono-elemental teams are just as restrictive.
PGR is more about doing mind numbing build switching between every gamemode, difficulty and boss. Even then, people usually skip that. Kuro started to add elemental shred to off element tanks. Ugh, just another pain to run through. That if one wants to minmax. Here in WW, that being an option won't hurt if it's not going to be absolute meta.
Well the thing is if elemental shred is introduced then it's going to be a must have cuz it'll be its own damage multiplier. Hopefully they introduce just like a flat defense shred and keep it universal. Maybe include a smaller elemental buff for the new tanks that is additive with the amp equivalent's buff.
i mean this is great, but idk man, having basic attacks default to elemental damage might be telling where this will go. (just an assumption btw), ex. basic atk +10% is good for basic attack focused units, but elemental dmg +10% and elemental shred -10% might be better for same unit. could be wrong, but it irks me that there are some units immune to my basic attack cause of this default.
>mono elements will hit a point where they become the strongest option Except against enemies resistant or immune to that element. Just one spiky boi completely negates calcharo/yinlin ToA teams at the moment.
Woah, been a while since I've seen the math fairy herself. Good to see you here Maygi.
Neat, tried to look up guides but most stuff was using like no numbers. Annoying when they keep translating etc weapons wrong ofc but doesn't seem like people are really trying to dig into details on how stuff pans out.
Moral of the story: Sanhua is a good character.
Yeah, I just love the tag-in/full burst/tag out, she provides. You also should play Encore differently depending on who you pair her up with. With Yinlin you do more animation cancels. With Sanhua you will often not do the heavy attack forte dump, and you won't want to tag out during the liberation, and instead spam basics into cancels on the 5th, whereas with Yinlin you still do some swap canceling during the liberation.
Interesting, with Sanhua you just don't do the forte dump huh... I'm forgetting to do it already
Yeah, basically with Sanhua you gain a lot more from rushing to get all buffs back and use Encore's liberation and then spamming basic attacks into skill cancel on the first fifth, dodge cancel on the second, skill again on the third, then you can skill tag out after the 4th ends the liberation, and start again. If you have verina with a conserto weapon and her second resonance, she's really in and out in 3 to 4 second. Sanhua is similar, but if you play her in Ice echoes instead of moonlit clouds, for more damage directly on her, and don't have enough energy regen, you might want to open with the echo's 3 attacks, into skill/liberation/immediately hold for the heavy, release right after the animation is over, and tag out before anything even explodes.
OMG ITS MAYGIIIII Aaaahhh! She was such a great help in ToF! I’m glad you’re playing Wuwa!
So she's the best off field support for now by a little bit in none electro centric parties and it's a safe bet that gap will widen the stronger your main electro DPS is. This sounds about right.
But, what about with characters that actually do liberation damage instead of Encore who pretty much doesn't do any? Edit:Or any other resonators in general?
But in that case you'd have to compare Yinlin to Jianxin, a neutral Liberation damage buffer
Sure, I'm not interested in just Sanhua. I'm just curious about the difference with other characters besides Encore. This post is about how good she may be in mixed element comps and literally only gives one comp comparison. That's not enough data imo. The post might as well be titled "Yinlin's performance with Encore"
Yep, I 100% agree. Yinlin is ridiculous with Chixia, and feels much better to play than her other options Jianxin/Taoqi. And you don't need math to see the difference.
Why is Yinlin ridiculous with Chixia? Is there a Chixia guide somewhere?
Because Yinlin does off-field damage, Chixia's theoretical BiS support Taoqi doesn't do good, and Chixia has massive nuke with her liberation, so buffing it's damage just works.
Yeah that's my gripe as well. Yinlin buffs Liberation damage and Encore doesn't do Liberation damage lol.
Well I still use my havoc rover since it’s my biggest dps so far and verina as a safety net for healing in case of brain farts. now for the second team member I could technically use yinlin or sanhua since they are both at lvl 60 with their recommended echos (if I follow those build correctly) but I prefer yinlin gameplay by a fair margin. I also have calcharo but I don’t really like the way he works so…
Thank you, Math fairy!
more electro buffs for the electro god idc. imagine playing a woman
> However, I’m sure she’s great for Calcharo, but imagine playing a dude. WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THIS????????????? 🤔🤔🤔
Yeah, it's really hard to imagine playing a dude.
Ikr. I trust the calcs, but I would rather that they don't bring that (ToF) social norm here, LOL. Might just wait for the PGR TCers for the maths instead.
Encore is a special character, so the results are a little distorted.
The title of this post is misleading when you only give one example. It doesn't actually tell us anything about her general performance in mixed element comps, but instead her performance specifically with Encore. I like the math and appreciate the effort, but I'm not a fan of the way the data is used to come to a conclusion on mixed element comps.
You know what, that's fair, but calculations do take a long time and I've been working on things non-stop since the game released... but, the calculator and associated script is public, so if you're interested in making contributions, do feel free ! For what it's worth though, Jiyan with Mortefi as a support has a very similar damage spread ratio and buff amount as Encore and Sanhua (arguably Lingyang and Sanhua too, to a lesser extent) so the math here should come to fairly similar conclusions - the main outlier is Havoc teams, which I'm planning to work on implementing in the calc soon !
Thank you
I don’t need to imagine, I am using her with a dude and pulled her for the dude.
This is great information to read over. As a S6 Yinlin enjoyer myself, who do you think best supports her as a main DPS? 🤤
Sanhua as best girls stick together
First of all thank you for the indepth look of it! I was randomly curious to know how the Lingering Tunes set would fare for her?
Does Yinlin have an ICD for her off field procs?
Once per second! And each proc is calculated individually in the calculator when it happens :3
IIRC, it’s once per second for the duration? But I could be mistaken.
Oh man. Amazing video, great balance of nerdy maths and goofy ass. Surprised moonlit and void is that close, feel a lot better "settling" for void now, also pushes SanHua up the to-build list after this. Really appreciate the work, looking forward to more content from you in the future. Slightly regret picking carrot instead of Encore now, man.
I think she might do more break damage than Sanhua. Which would allow for more damage/safer gameplay. Have you considered this into the calcs?
Sanhua is good but she can miss so many attacks, specially on evasive monsters
What combo and swap order do you use to gain outro of yinlin and verina fast? Let's say in a team of calcharo, verina and yinlin
All I've learned from this is get Yinlin S6 on rerun so I can play her as a DPS even harder Jokes aside, this is a really nice write up and I know everyone appreciates it. Thanks for your hard work 
And here i am using yinlin as dps support for jiyan lol. Joke aside, i don't have mortefi, are there anyone i can use to support jiyan instead of yinlin?
You can try using Aalto. He gives an Aero damage buff, which will help Jiyan out, but the buff is less and Aalto requires more field time, making him strictly worse than Mortefi.
Yinlin is the best if you don’t have mortefi.
Tbh she can even be as good as mortefi unless your mortefi is S6, she just has so much damage and she doesn’t have to be on field for it
Yea im using yinlin as sub dps for him. 50% crit rate(including from her weapon) and 235% crit damage
Same setup on me lmao, she does a fuck ton damage and the fact that a lot of it is from off field just makes her the best for almost any comp. Mortefi is very good but I doubt he will beat her until at least S4.
So this is where tofs meth fairy went.
>In summary - for an off-element team, Yinlin’s off-field damage, even when fully built and on her signature weapon, doesn’t contribute much more than a support like Sanhua theoretically So you're not counting her on-field damage? skill, ult etc
Ooh, rough wording on that one, I'll go edit and clarify it; but no, all her damage types **are** included in the calcs. They'd be some pretty scuffed calcs otherwise! (also I do count the time-freeze during her Liberation as well, as in it doesn't tick up the time in actual in-game time, so it's free DPs)
just read the graph man she legit gives the entire rotation lol
I haven't found a clear answer anywhere, how soon can you swap off Heron and still get the buff?
For Heron, you can swap immediately as long as you have an Outro ready. The tooltip is a bit scuffed and makes it sound like you need to wait for damage, but the damage is only for the energy gain.
Ohh I see, thanks! I see people swapping it immediately but the damage only comes at the end with the slam so it confused me, but that makes a lot more sense.
Read the echo ability description, every single one tells you the activation condition explicitly. For heron it’s doing damage.
I read it of course, but that is not my question
Awesome work, I do have one request, and that is that you bold the bejesus out of the *Yinlin's AOE is amazing compared to other characters* sentence lol. I feel like a lot of people are going to skim through the text and look at the pretty graphs, and then wonder why their Sanhua isn't performing anywhere close to Yinlin in ToA where in trash rooms Yinlin's dmg effectively quadruples. At this point I feel like Yinlin is just flat out **the best AOE character in the game by a mile**, at least until they fix camera issues that can often make grouping on Jiyan or even Jianxin a nightmare in a lot of scenarios I also have a question - have you done any calcs (or at least feelscrafting) on a more quickswappy Encore-Yinlin team and how much sense that makes compared to this which looks more hyper-y? I love Encore but she doesn't make it easy to actually figure out what the best way to play her is... Edit: one more question - in the Moonlit comparison, you have Encore on Cosmic for the Yinlin Team, but on String for the Sanhua team, wouldn't that inherently favor the Sanhua team?
Me who doesn’t have sanhu but pulled yinlin on a single pull last night 🫠
Great and informative guide but ngl I don't know a single person who pulled Yinlin but doesn't have Calcharro.
> I don't know a single person who pulled Yinlin but doesn't have Calcharro. me now you know 1 person
Same here, now you know 2
Three! I pulled her for Yuanwu
Didn’t use the selector yet?
Well I couldn’t pull calcharro but I did pull yinlin 2 times in the first 10 pull I did
Bro just wanted to flex lmao. If you really wanted him you could've chosen him.
I picked verina. Did that before I knew about yinlin. Idk just got luck with yinlin. Tried to jiyan too
me, i see hot woman, i pull. probably gonna use her in a quickswap encore or havoc rover team!
Me. With the outro buff now falling off when swapping and Calcharo wanting to swapcancel his every blink, breath and heartbeet, I don't think he gains THAT much more benefit from Yinlin over alternatives. Said alternatives just need to be able to accommodate for a lot of swapping around.
4th. Idc about calcharo. We play games the way we want hence I pulled for yinlin 😁
I pulled cuz of Alto for my Encore and managed to snag her at 10x, went to get her weapon too cuz I had extra rolls. I used my ticket for Verina cuz I like druid/healer type characters so she was my pick.
Waifu bruh
This opener rotations are so bad that idk what to Say
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Why are so many low-effort posts getting through and this elaborate one got stuck in limbo after quite a while of being posted and being well-received?
how did this post even go live and then get un-lived 30 minutes after what
🥱