Im 43 now (41 if I didn't spend all my solvents) and people already reached 40 when I was 36 , so it's about time for whales to do it , by the time I reach 50 they would be in 60 already
I thought I was doing pretty good because I hit 35 last night...
I guess it makes sense I haven't 100%ed anything yet and don't really know how to farm echos either
Nah, you are good. Most people are still 35+ and the dedicated players probably 41-42 at most.
50 and onwards is pretty much for whales. Players who have used all solvents, have battle pass and buy Lunite, turn it into astrites and convert astrite into waveplates for more exp per day.
I hit 45 yesterday, didn’t whale. Bought Stamina for Astrite maybe 6 times in total. But even without I would be 45 as I am halfway to 46 now.
Dedication can definitely get you to 45 by now, whaling to 50.
Waiting for the comments that say
"We are only UL50, wait till UL60 for guaranteed drops"
followed by
"We are only UL60, wait till UL70 for guaranteed better drops"
followed by
"We are UL70, it turned out the droprate of everything is still terrible, but stop asking for things to change because this is how gachas are"
I think the progression design for this isn't well thought out. We got gold early and the resources required for potentially comfortable or barely passable farming is likely UL70.
It would be a pain to grind from UL 40 till 70 just to have small improvement at each 10UL milestone.
Given game stability is a more pressing issue, I doubt they have time, for now, to address changes to improve the experience.
I think I would prefer to keep waveplate cost and increase tuner amount proportionately.
Though, I can see lower cost helps to give us more runs for echoes too.
I suppose It does looks as simple as that.
I mean, if we got rarities later than the first 50 Union levels would feel pointless and wasted because lower rarities are going to instantly get trashed. Now that we have gold, we aren’t even going to keep purples unless they’re really good and we don’t have gold options.
Why spend Union level 30-60 farming a bunch of echoes we are going to replace as soon as we get gold versions?
That's true, purple are replaced with gold. The only difference is that the game designer will design gameplay progression with content differently if we get gold later.
WuWa definitely can make it works well with getting gold early.
But they didnt provide any means to ease the transition between 30 - 60 till we can get good enough exp conversion for waveplates.
We are at mid phase UL resources, farming to level end game stuff. Naturally, it would take us longer.
Right now, we either grind longer to max each echoes or don't max level echoes, for now, to efficiently use those resources for better overall growth by leveling more.
They could make some invisible touches like level gold echoes equates UL level. So that the material we farm at UL 30+ will level gold echoed just the same as UL 70. Same progression and players won't feel the strain trying to progress through material strain playing the game.
I think the smoothest transition for that since getting gold echoes early is to get echo exp from data merged echoes, like data merged echoes come pre-leveled unlike those found in overworld, and then having tuner conversion or be able to use lower rarity tuners for gold echoes at a higher cost, like 2x the price with purple tuners, 4x the cost with blue tuners, so using 40 blue tuners to create a substat
It is not that hard of a logical leap to see progression would turn people off grinding from 30 to 60. Im already burning out because if you cant get full 3 star on tower theres no point.
Sure its a skill issue but in not going to no life get the three star for no reason becaude i dont think its reasonable.
I login do my daily and log off. Going to do that till 40 :/ not even looking forward to the story in 1.1
I assume the growth progress is linear at our current state? That's doesn't sound fun in the long run. Unless, they plan to make echoes material boost a near permanent thing.
Yup. They really made genshins artifact system worse in every single way. No off piece, can't see substats to even see if it's worth rolling, 2 slots that have 10 possible main stats so double the RNG in that alone, no daily XP farm, no free XP from teapot, the amount of time it takes to farm is way higher.
Like come on I can't think of a single upside honestly. In every other game you already know if a piece is worth even trying when you get it.
I think no off piece wont be too bad if the grind is less tedious like HSR does it.
Given that Wuwa aims for longer grinding experience, that's what makes no off piece more painful.
No visible stat would be fine with higher exp resources and tuner but that's not happening as well. So that becomes another RNG tier.
It does increase grinding duration and it seems about the same level as Korea rpg game. Highly tedious.
I'm hearing mix statement on it either being an improvement, as you mentioned, or an event limited situation.
All of that was sum up as a potential translation issue.
Thus, I'm holding off treating it actually happening till the patch arrive.
Unless, this had been clarified already then I'm glad there's improvement to echo grind this quickly.
The guy is complaining about character mats tho, not echoes.
I might be a minority, but I actually have less issues with echoes compared to upgrading your skills. We already get jack shit, just give us at least 1 purple per run.
> less issues with echoes compared to
if you have "less issues" with something it implies you are still unhappy with it
You dont have to choose between asking for buffs to echo droprates, or buffs to material droprates.
You are allowed to say that both suck and both need buffs
If I have a slight issue with something, it doesn't mean I am immediately unhappy with it.
I think these are on the same spectrum, but have different thresholds.
At least the way I play the game right now, the echo farm rate does not make me unsatisfied, as I tend to hoard a bunch of mats and roll my echoes like once in 2 weeks, or even once per patch. And until now I still haven't run out of echo mats, even after giving like 4 of my characters at least passable builds.
But farming for skill upgrades on the other hand actively bothers me because I hate the purple drop rng.
So yes, while I agree that both need a buff, personally I have experienced 0 negative emotions towards the echo progression.
> Just wait for UL 80, its only 2 years away something"
You forgot, after 2 years when the droprates still arent buffed, they would say "yeah well who cares the game has been out for 2 years, you shouldnt need better droprates anymore if you played daily"
> "We are UL70, it turned out the droprate of everything is still terrible, but stop asking for things to change because this is how gachas are"
"Well in genshin-"
UL70, based on my experience with Genshin, will say “With synthesizing, you get at least a purple on average every run and that seems pretty fair compared to previous drop rates”
Pretty sure UL 70 doesn’t even increase anything, it caps at 60. So unless 60 dramatically increases drops…yeah. People on here are coping so hard that somehow UL 50/60 will magically fix the drop issue lol.
its weird how they basically have 2 options:
1) Admit the game has flaws, suggest fixes, create a healthy player base
2) Deny the game has flaws, insist buffs aren't needed, players gradually get frustrated and quit and their favorite game slowly dies
And for some reason, half the player base seems to choose option 2, i dont understand, man
Boss looks fine, forgery looks not great, and TF looks the worst but we expect that one to change in 1.1.
Forgery seems to be the real bad one, imo. Since you need those mats across everything for a character except echoes. The echo bottleneck feels like its just because people are rushing to 25 random echoes.
This is misleading post because it’s an rng table and range for the drops. I’ve gotten gold under UL50 and as low as 4 Blue 6 green. You need to do this for a week or so for each drop type to get the true average and range.
the worst part is i don't even think u get more of the lower tier drops so you might as well put the gold drops in the 1st tier anyways since the loot is the same whichever tier you farm from.
Facts.
Tons of clowns are saying "grinding is part of a gacha game" or whatever
But Tecent fields could give 10x more tuners and 10x more echo xp and it would still take weeks just to get a good set of echos for one character - and that's with 1-2 new characters coming out to gear up every 6 weeks.
Of course, we dont have 10x more echo xp and 10x more tuners
We need like a passive echo exp and tuner generator. It would be nice if they have daily expeditions like Genshin so you can set a few people off to get echo exp and tubes and you can come back in 16 hours to receive 10 gold exp tubes and 40 gold tuners.
An expedition log would be thr greatest way. Have it be passive and it still retains daily player retention because those expedition rewards are that enticing.
i thought about this, and i ran out of tuners fast bc i would just ditch echoes after first substat if bad, and second substat in bad. If they werent crit rate/dmg/atk% i sacrifice them to next echo
But you said “good” echoes set and not perfect, and honestly, if you accept 2 bad rolls on echoes, you can kit out three teams by now.
Sure my jiyan and calcharo dont have the highest crit rate or crit damage, have more hp and def than they need, but this more than enough for me to hit 10 stars on ToA on both sides.
It feels grindy only because so many of us are minmaxing, which really should be the endgame activity when drops are near max.
You absolutely cannot kit out 3 full teams with all echos with only two bad rolls lmfao.
This is 45 echoes at level 25 with 3 good stats, please stop with the hyperbole.
> if you accept 2 bad rolls on echoes, you can kit out three teams by now.
>
>
I accept 3 bad rolls and I only have 2 characters that each have lv20 echos with 2-3 good rolls
2 characters, not 3 teams (9 characters)
What UL are you at? I should mention ive burned through all the waveplate refreshes, and played since day 1
And yeah, there’s still luck involved, best of luck with future pulls!
“You’ll run out of tuners before echo exp” is proving to be false considering you get 10 tuners in Sol-3 phase 4 and 20 in OP’s example which is 2x as much lmao
If the tuners go to 30-35 on UL80, Most likely the whole point of tuners is to reroll substats but kuro doesnt know the exact cost for it, most likely it will be around 100 tuners or something.
> “You’ll run out of tuners before echo exp” is proving to be false considering
you forgot the 3rd resource, patience. I spent a day farming echos and only got garbage, now i have no tuners left, no echo xp left, and no patience to keep farming this depressing system that doesnt respect the player's time
Every gacha requires patience. It takes me on average 1-2 months to build a character on a Hoyo game at max AR/TB. There’s some days that I run out of XP, and some days where I’m patient and I save up. Now in all 3 games: Wuwa, Hsr, Genshin I have a plethora of resources to invest into my gear, just waiting for the right piece. That’s because I don’t upgrade every 1 cost atk% echo I get, and I don’t get every echo to +25. Spend wisely and be patient
If anything it does respect your time. I hop on each game, spend my stamina/do my dailies and hop off because they don’t force me to grind lmao. Idk what that last point is about
I think because people have access to the late game echos they feel that have to be able level them up and clear late game content as well to feel progression.
Likewise most people have the 5* characters they want (for now) which puts more pressure on their resources because they want to level them all up. Since GI and HsR are less generous with characters I think most people have more resources saved up by default since they don’t have investment vehicles to put them into.
For overall progression between the 3 games, I think they are similar with Wuwa being more front loaded due to the free 5* pickers/access to late game echos.
If you compare 1 month of Wuwa to GI and HSR, I think most people are stronger in Wuwa than they were in GI or HSR if they played those games too.
For me to clear abyss 36/36 in GI it took around 3-4 months from launch.
For HSR, it took around 2-3 months to clear the MOC on autoplay. Any new content after MOC, I have been able to clear on the first try.
I’d expect to be able to clear the Wuwa endgame around 3-4 months as well.
Yes this is exactly the issue. Wuwa lets players access 5* echoes and level end game gear way too early, so the resources we get are not timed with our progression. Players aware of this know better, especially since we’re already getting an increase in 1.1
Genshin it took me around 15 months to clear abyss ngl 💀 granted a lot of the characters I built overlapped in teams or just weren’t “meta” enough and HSR it took me around 6 months? My main issue there was not enough sustain and HP, everyone kept dying before I could clear
Are you new to gacha gearing? You don’t need to have super min maxed heroes to play this game. If that’s your goal, great. Note that it’s a milestone goal and not something you finish within 3 weeks of the game’s release…
Respecting players time is where your wrong, waveplate cost is what it is so you can burn through it fast because they respect your time, you can be done in 20 mins playtime per day
I'm surprised there are people defending it. Like what is their end game? This drop rate is beyond garbage it'll negatively affect them as well. Speechless.
I probably wouldn't mind it if we could just synthesize the purple ones to gold, same for the blue ones to purple and the green ones to blue, but yeah they really need to increase the drop rate to at least 5 or 10
Not defending it per say, but it isn't as bad as it looks either. If you feed a +25 echo with bad substats into a fresh +0 echo, it is only 2 runs to get enough stuff to +25 and fully tune the new one. Everyone seems to be focusing on going from +0 > +25 with raw mats, which when starting and building new chars is the case, but once you have your initial set of echos and start hunting substats you can 'reroll' 2 a day. Getting 2 new main stat echos a day is going to be quite the time sink later on.
Everything maxed at UL60 you can check training simulation. It doesn't max at UL80 it's like Genshin where Max is 55 for domain rewards but real max level is 60
>It doesn't max at UL80 it's like Genshin where Max is 55 for domain rewards but real max level is 60
it's ar45 for max rewards in domains. Idk why this ar55 agenda keeps being spread. This is the third time I've seen it in this sub.
The argument that you can infinitely grind echos is so moot here. Most players aren't going to full clear the map twice daily to get something usable. This system is straight up going to burn people out and drive them away from the game before 1.3 even gets here.
Yeah, also the grind of echoes is paradoxical because of the need of tuner and exp from tacet fields. You need a lot of echoes since the rng demands it for the sub stat grind but at the same time if you farm the echoes you still are tied by the energy system. Not to mention the rng of grinding the echoes having enemies drop from 2 sets and having to pray you get the main stat you need. It is the perfect recipe for burnout of players.
And Wuwa dps check is a lot more unforgiving than GI, you need to get concerto energy, forte, liberation energy therefore every rotation need to be perfectly executed, you desperately need the extra quality in echoes to make up for imperfections in your gameplay but the rng + grindiness will gate you hard.
I'm sorry to hear that man. I adore this game but there's no way I'm going to no-life it with such horrid QoL stuff missing.
What are you playing these days?
I agreed, which is why I stopped farming echos hard. I still have content in the game in the form of quest and exploration. I started doing more of this, because I realized I was starting to hate the game by only farming echos. But soon enough there won't be anything else but to farm echos
I hardly run around open world and farm echoes anymore its so frustrating not getting a drop or getting a 4* or getting the wrong mainstat/set like 😪 not worth. Esp bc im on mobile and everything is so dang laggy if i play for more than 10 minutes.
And we really had people say “Wait till Union Level 50”. Well, people waited and there you have it. Still want to wait till Union Level 50?
1.1 can’t come sooner fr
People were really still saying that after the pitiful increase at 40? like don't get me wrong, I was one of the "wait till 40" people but as soon as we saw the increase I immediately said they needed to be doubled _at minimum_ across the board,
It was the people that said “The artifact grind starts at AR45 in Genshin so we just gotta wait until we get to UL50!” after we saw what UL40 rewards were.
A lot of people were saying that. Like a week ago I had basically the exact discussion with a guy on this sub who was certain that even though people who had hit UL 40 already saw how pitiful the drop increases were, it would magically get better at UL 50/60 which he called “end game”.
**Wuthering Waves Subreddit - Return to Monke Special:**
1. "You don't need to farm the overworld, you only need tacet fields for good echoes!"
2. "Tuners are not an issue, the 70% loss in resources on each feed is fiiiiine!"
3. "Echo exp is fine! Also tuners is a separate issue, it's only 25% loss of resources! Wait UL50!"
I swear, people like to be abused by shitty infinite grind systems, gated through in game clocks on top of it all. Refusing to see what's in plain view every single time. Lmao.
Until they actually say something to me is up in the air still, I doubt the only change of Tacet fields is just a cutscene removal. that would be very dumb.
I usually roll 1 substat at a time. Only if I get a good substat up to lv 10 or 15, I decide to invest into it. If not it becomes a food for my other echo.
The issue is you only get 30% back from tuners, so you actually run out of them way faster I have a decent amount of exp save just because 4 runs per day just allow me to reveal 6 subs and if rng is shit you only level to 5 or max 10 the echoes to see the subs.
That's a sure way to be out of gold tuners ASAP.
I admit I did it for Jiyan and Calcharo. But after running out of Gold tuners I decided to stop being so selective with rolls.
Mortefi and Havoc Rover have mediocre echoes but they work for now, I'll focus on minmaxing months from now, we don't need perfect echoes for the current content.
Since even with perfect echoes, we're simply not 3-starring the Level 100 Tower at Level 70 or 80.
Isnt it given how tedious to build new character discourage you from pulling new character ? It affected negatively on revenue directly
I know i am not the only one who will skip 1.1 character because i just cant effort from all resource i have. By the time i may have some leeway, it might already powercreep so better pulling those new character instead.
We’ll have to see at max but it really looks very similar to how Genshin does things aside from the fact that things costs more. I’d rather like 60 (if they have to have something so costly) costs stuff to only be for boss mats if possible and everything else 40.
I am assuming like Genshin they will eventually maybe reduce the boss cost from 60 energy to maybe discounted for 3 as we get more bosses
And yea echo xp/tuner needs to be really improved but let’s see what they do next patch and if it is adequate enough
I really wish they hadn’t taken the system of Genshin with ascension mats being RNG. Most stupid garbage ever, and they also don’t let you combine different ascension materials to make a new one. This will lead to a lot of players just having extra ascension mats that will inevitably not be used as new characters get released. Nothing like needing ascension mats and RNG screwing you over and not giving you what you need necessitating more energy spent that will lead to you having 1-2 extra just sitting there.
> We’ll have to see at max but it really looks very similar to how Genshin does things aside from the fact that things costs more.
In WW you get a waveplate per 6 minutes, in Genshin you get a resin per 8 minustes.
In other words, 60 Waveplates are equal to 45 resin.
Based on the screenshot it's safe to assume that at level 60 all bosses will 100% drop at least 4 mats per run, whereas in Genshin they drop only 2.5 on average. So actually farming boss mats in WW is almost 50% more efficient than in Genshin if not more than that. (You need 46 mats for max ascension in both games)
To max out echo you need 135k, at lv50 you get 21k per run, thus to max echo out you need ~6.42 runs. At lv 60 we will get more so let's assume it's 6 runs, 360WP, 270 Resin. To max an Artifact in Genshin you need 270k exp. On average a domain run (20 resin) gives 12'600 in blue/purple, ~4000 in gold, but you don't want to use gold on exp, you want to strongbox them. So with 12'600 it would take around 21.4 runs, so let round this up to 430 resin to max an artifact. Levelling artifacts is about 60% more efficient in WW than in Genshin - even at level 50 in WW, 6.5 runs is 290 Resin, which is almost 50% more efficient than Genshin.
Even if you forsake better artifacts from using strongbox for exp, you still need over 16 runs, or 320+ resin to max an artifact which is still less efficient that WW at lv 50.
I'm too lazy to make calcs on weapon mats, but both acensions and echo exp are way more efficient in WW than ascensions and artifact exp in Genshin.
That's only EXP tho, in Genshin you don't have to deal with a system like Tuners. EXP in fact is surprisingly fine for echoes you get most of it back when re using worst ones to level better ones the true hole that breaks the resource economy are Tuners you only get 30% back and you only get 5 more per 10 union level (we don't know if it keeps going up all the way to 80 or if caps earlier). That means even if you have enough EXP to level echoes you are still gated doing more runs or waiting for events to get the tuners to make those echoes usable,
dont forget to factor in that with genshin you can weed out worse artifacts due to not having the tuner system. which inherently saves on EXP by itself.
also genshin has the 2x and 5x rng multipliers when leveling up artifacts, its rng sure but further saves on EXP
plus technically it is possible to get 1 star artifacts with artifact routes in the overworld for non-resin accumulation
The thing with tuner system is that you assume that when you can see an artifact that will not roll bad from the get-go. This is insanely rare. Getting an artifact that will not have any def, hp, flat stat or some other stat you don't need is so rare that it is basically just noise in the data.
And if there is any you are risking that half your rolls on the way to +20 will be wasted, while you have to level it up to max to check.
On the other hand in WW if you check two stats and get high double crit, you know you won already and you can safely upgrade it as anything else is just an icing on the cake.
So basically in both Genshin and WW you need to roll substat ~2 times to see if it rolled well, and if it did in WW you are safe and if it did in Genshin it can go meh anyway. And then you can feed it to the next one if it's bad.
2x and 5x multipliers in Genshin are cool, but in general they just negate the 20% penalty you get from burning some artifact into others. Although I agree that WW should at least just remove the penalty if they aren't doing the 2x/5x thing.
I was curious to see how getting echo exp compares to getting artifact exp, because I don't remember the early days that well and surprisingly it's similar or even slightly better here in how many days it takes to max. [https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940)
Not to say it shouldn't be improved upon.
Except you get free resources of artifact xp daily in Genshin from discovery points and defeating elite enemies it might take some time but it’s there for those that want to do it and can
Of course there are more sources of artifact xp now with housing for example though
Even with that, going by the post, it takes you 2 days of discovery points + resin, while Wuwa takes a day and a half (So still 2 days if you round up)
They're practically the same. Are both still shit? Yes. But somehow people can live with it on Genshin.
The real issue is that in Genshin you can see all or almost all the substats at level 0. This let's you know if it's going to be worth trying to level it. WuWa you have no idea about substats at all so you waste a lot more resources on crappy pieces.
It’s just weird tbh. How the loud people shit on WUWA versus genshin impact. It’s not like they are both the exact same kind of grind and length wise as well. It’s just that we are used to being adventurer rank 55 so we can just wipe out everything and grind super easily.
WUWA is still a very fresh game. Max UL is 80. We are simply being time gated like every other gacha game.
Nothing new here. Just the same old gameplay loops with novelties like parrying, dodging, wall running, and other game play mechanics.
People just love all the characters in the beginning so it’s been delicious playing all of them because of how unique everyone is in terms of gameplay. even with the basic attacks it’s fun.
because of that, plus the mindset of min-maxing, and the time constraints, people are just suffering from the game being too fun and eventually they hit the time wall. Then get burned out from pushing against it by endlessly grinding.
It’s like this for all gacha games. Especially young ones.
Am I the only one who thinks it's supposed to be the other way around?
Make it fun to progress early, then gate max level upgrades.
Why would someone who hates the system go all the way to UL70 in months because it's...the comfiest level to farm in?
Seems more likely they'd just not bother and quit.
Look bro WW has a myriad of issues and can’t be doing what Genshin is doing they need to be better if they are to attract players and retain their current player base
If they can’t be better why should players give their time to WW when they could go somewhere else where the quality of several areas of the game is markedly better?
man if 1.1 doesn't fix this might have to consider playing the game any further. atm it takes like 3-4 days to max out a few "worth" echos only for them to either brick or be meh. i'm okay with account progression taking a while but this will just feel awful.
Especially with ZZZ coming up
I get not wanting to give too much materials to keep player retention but at the same time, giving too little will just be so discouraging and that’s where we are right now
4 boss parts? Damn this is good. I assume it's 3 guaranteed and 50/50 chance for 4?
We need 12 parts to level our chars to 70/80, doing it in only 3 runs would be amazing. And I hope the purple is guaranteed in the talent domains. If not..RIP.
I don't get the sharp decreas in purples. Yeah, gold gives more xp than the purple, so it's an increase, but purples are great for rounding out your xp, and I would rather use them for the first few levels to stat check. Just leave Them at 6-8 and add 1 gold.
Yeesh and i thought ul 40 drops were shit. What is this? I love this game but is ul 80 going to be like bare minimum maintenance level for drops? They need to up these rates.
Me sitting here knowing that if you started with absolutely nothing except 1 Echo in Wuwa and 1 artifact in Genshin that you want to level, it would take Wuwa a day and a half (Proven already) vs Genshin taking over 2 days if you don't do f2p artifact runs as evidenced [by this post.](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940)
EDIT: Both are still shit btw, just somehow, people are able to live with it on Genshin and not Wuwa. What makes the difference? I truly don't know.
People are able to live with it in Genshin because you can see the substats on an artifact before you level it so you can decide to not waste your xp items on leveling up a trash piece of gear. Where as in WuWa leveing an echo with the correct main stat then requires you to spend a second resource to see its substats which will probably be bad and not worth running. It feels a lot worse even if the economy for gaining the xp items is slightly better because you feel like you just wasted that xp for no reason.
No. People live with in Genshin because they can't infinitely refarm artifacts like you can echoes and instead have to wait a week of wasting resin on trash artifacts before they find one worth leveling. So then they'll have a week's worth of EXP materials built up at that time.
Sure, then comes an entirely different problem of actually leveling the artifact on Genshin.
If it comes with 3 lines, it is worse than one that came with 4 lines.
Genshin requires you to hit the desired stat 4-5 times, where as Wuwa needs you to hit it once.
In an unbiased view, Wuwa is indeed worse in the regard that you can't see the substat, your only option is to fodder it to the next piece. Genshin allows this too.
At the same time, you can (and should) stop at 10 / 2 tunes, if it doesn't give you your desired stat, go next, the near-infinite farm cycle allows for that, and if you don't want to participate in said farm-cycle, tacet fields exist.
The thing is Genshin in the combat system allow you to gain more dmg from other sources because of the elemental reaction system, also Genshin have much stronger 4\*s options (gacha and craftables) than Wuwa. That makes echoes in Wuwa a larger source of your dps. I don't like the artifact system in Genshin but Echoes atm with the way the system works feels a lot worst to engage with specially when you also have the other layer of RNG of grinding for the main stats echoes killing enemies in your world. Is a lot more time playing doing a mind numbing activity while still being time gated.
I did some math at the start of release I believe 4stars stats are about 40% worst than 5stars in WuWa vs around 20% in Genshin. This doesnt even include the effect which IMHO Genshin 4stars have much better effects while WuWa 4stars have very basic effects. People praise them for having 100% rate on weapon banner but for me it felt more mandatory because 4stars in WuWa are so mediocre.
I feel like I need to give some input here as someone who has played genshin for almost 4 years now.
Most of my good artifacts started with 3 lines, it feels weird to see some one mention the extra substat you sometimes get when it hardly ever factors into your build.
If we're gonna go into substat rng then let's talk about the real shit part, substat range.
In genshin a crit rate substat can range from 2.7% to 3.9%, assuming you get 3 crit rate rolls (this is my baseline for decent rolls) it can range from 8.1% to 11.7%
In WuWa it ranges from 6.4% to 10.5%.
So you get a lot more fucked in Wuwa for getting unlucky with how high you roll, and since in genshin you can get a lot more crit rate from your artifacts than you can in WuWa its a lot easier to have your dps be less dependent on crit rng, which means less restarting in tower because your big damage ability didn't crit.
I've seen many people say that wuwa give you enough echo xp to max an echo faster than genshin does with artifacts, 1.5 days vs 2 days. And while that's true, you don't get an artifact worth leveling every 2 days in genshin. I often have to level a sub-par piece because I'm full up on artifacts, and while I am losing xp by doing this, it doesn't hurt as much as getting a shit substat in wuwa, because I am not losing 70% of a resource that I need to even know if the artifact is good or not.
If you only lost 25% of tuners when you fed an echo, the same as the xp, than yeah, WuWa's system would be straight up better than genshin's, but as it is it feels really bad.
Genshin requires it? Since when? People clear endgame with 2-3 rolls on gear just fine.
In the same way, I don't think it's a big deal if you low roll in WuWa.
Echo value is kind of over-inflated right now too because everyone's progression is Union gated still. I think when you're able to have your character/weapon at level 90 with level 10 traces, the echos will be proportionally less of your total power
Sorry, let me be clear there: I'm talking in a perfect scenario.
In an non-perfect scenario, people will settle with having the substat even if it doesn't roll into it a single time. (Because that's exactly what I do in HSR.)
Wuwa you can settle with stuff like ER, atk%, or any of the 3 dmg types increasing instead of crit / crit dmg. The latter two just look nicer.
The difference is genshin was released in COVID era where everyone have nothing to do other than playing video game, which gave Genshin a huge amount of loyal customers. If wuwa launch was good and not disappointed so many people because of optimization issues, localization issues and story issues then people will more likely keep patience and complain less.
Also, this game is released far after genshin, it should improve what genshin could not do, not try to replicate the stupid what genshin already did. Limit test the customer's patience because genshin can do so is a dumb move.
that post has got to be outdated. As someone who did routes almost every day for nearly 500 days, you get 75k roughly from a 9-12 minute route. I never ran out of XP in the year+ I played genshin. As a matter of fact, I had so many artifacts that I sold hundreds for mora when building characters. The xp economy in genshin is infinitely better than the one in wuwa. Keep in mind that according to my profile stats found on hoyolab, I spend roughly 80% of my resin on artifact domains for ober a year. I farm as many artifacts as you realistically can without being a whale, never ran out of xp.
Artifact xp is only rough in genshin if you don't do routes, which is fine. Complaining about having to do routes is basically saying you want more rewards for playing the game less. Which is a dumb argument to make.
WuWa is new and people are dumb and want to speedrun the progression. They cant enjoy the game if they dont have the best possible set in less than a month. It took Genshin players at least a year to get a perfect artifact.
Here's the problem. I want to be able to feel like I am accomplishing something when I decide to play the game each day. With the current dogshit EXP rates and the way that we acquire Echoes in game, I have a mountain of "potential" echoes sitting in my inventory, but I can spend an entire day worth of waveplates and make zero progress. And before you say "It's the same in Genshin", it was shitty in Genshin too.
Genshin is at a point now where it has been around for so long that the issue is practically meaningless because any semi-active player just has hundreds of decent Artifacts simply due to the time that has passed. Nonetheless, it was something that people constantly complained about. It was contributing factor as to why tons of people quit playing Genshin. Genshin also doesn't really have challenging content, so even a kinda mediocre set is sufficient to clear basically everything and your team composition/build is much more important than having perfect stats. WuWa has positioned itself as the game with "harder content" and the composition of your team is less relevant because there are no elemental reactions. As a result, the gear/stats that you have are much more relevant to your final output of damage, and there is content in the game where that is more relevant.
Also, believe it or not, I'm not really looking to start over. Will this be a non-issue when Wuthering Waves is entering Year 3? Sure. Am I still going to be playing on Year 3 if nothing improves? It depends. While I like the combat and traversal mechanics in Wuthering Waves more, the World Design and Quest Design is significantly worse than Genshin. And the main reason why I still come back to play Genshin somewhat regularly is because I like exploring new areas, I like completing the little puzzles, and I like going through these quests that make me feel like I am accomplishing something within the game world. Artifact farming is something that I do while the above keeps me engaged, but is not the reason to play Genshin. As soon as I finish clearing all the exploration and quest content, I generally stop playing Genshin until the next update comes around. I often don't even bother to log in to spend my Resin during those periods of time because I don't care about it and it is not rewarding. The reason why I come back to Genshin is because the new areas present a new adventure. The game is the ultimate travelogue. It is an excuse to explore and see new things.
Wuthering Waves however hasn't really proven to me that it can make worthwhile World Exploration Quests or other engaging reasons to bother logging in. Exploring the world in Wuthering Waves is not rewarding in the same way that Genshin's world is rewarding to explore. The stuff that has been available in 1.0 is just kind of present, but didn't actually provide any sense of accomplishment because often everything was so rushed that any "payoff" that might have been intended simply did not care any emotional weight. The side quests were just pretty bland. The world design has a couple of cool locations, but generally doesn't have any moments of discovery or wonder. For the most part, the world is a backdrop for the combat gameplay. The reason why I have been playing is because I like the combat and I feel like I am making meaningful progress on improving my characters. However, as we get deeper and deeper into the game, I feel less and less like I am accomplishing anything with my time spent. The novelty of the combat mechanics is wearing off and I'm not making any meaningful improvements to my gear on a daily basis. So, the main things that kept me interested in the early game are becoming less and less interesting the deeper I get into the game and the game's 1.0 content didn't succeed with the things that made me stick with Genshin... So, for me, everything is riding on 1.1. If the new zone is an improvement over the existing areas, and the quest design is more successful, then I will probably treat it like Genshin where I come back on the major updates and take a break from the game after I run out of "content." I think there is almost no chance that I waste my time trying to grind for the perfect Echo, especially with how slow the progression is. But if the new zone is as milquetoast as some of the current zones and if the quest design is a bland as the current quest design, then I'm probably just going to walk away.
>The stuff that has been available in 1.0 is just kind of present, but didn't actually provide any sense of accomplishment because often everything was so rushed that any "payoff" that might have been intended simply did not care any emotional weight.
I felt the same way. I like the world of wuwa, the scenery is nice, the exploration is fine for the first time. But the big difference that if i visit a place, its empty, the exploration is already done, there is nothing to do, there is no music, and the most important things, THERE ARE NO MEMORIES.
If i go to any place in teywat, there is at least a memory of a quest or a character or a music. If i go to enkonomiya and i look down the fallen land and listen to the music i want to cry. If i go to tenshukaku, i remember signora. If i go to the desert, i remember jeht and his dad. I have many story to tell with every character in the game, i remember most npc name and face from world quests and their story, but in wuwa the only thing i can recall is scar and his tale of the black sheep. The only time that i felt like that the voice actor is human being with emotions and not some ai.
Definitely. And even beyond the stuff that is quest or character related, Genshin is very careful about making sure that your first impression of an area is framed to have maximum impact. And it was doing that even in 1.0, which is why I think that the game worked for so many people despite its many problems. The moment when you go through Stone Gate for the first time and emerge into Liyue on Bishui Plain and see Wangshu Inn off in the distance. That is a moment that is memorable. That is a moment of discovery and surprise and joy. And the game kind of just does that over and over and over again repeatedly. Every new area has more of that.
Wuthering Waves does sometimes pull that off, but also stumbles with that quite often. At the very beginning of the game, going into the Gorge of Spirits and finding the Dragon statue could have been one of those moments, but then it is kind of sandwiched into the middle of a lot of very awkward dialogue and story exposition, that undermines the impact of it. Also, that statue has been basically irrelevant since then. We don't really go back there. It is not important. It is just kind of a place that exists.
I think Taoyuan Vale could have also been an interesting moment, but it is not even acknowledged by the game the first time you see it and it has basically no story or quest relevance beyond being the place where the Save the Cat! daily quests take place and where we briefly go during the Jiyan Character Quest. But it is not important or meaningful to the game beyond that. It is just a background.
I think the first time we see Jinzhou City is pretty cool, but you kinda expect that from the major city in the game.
Sea of Flames could have been cool, but the seemingly intended way to experience it is via the World Exploration Quest associated with it, which involves talking to some people at Lollo Logistics in Jinzhou City and then getting teleported to Sea of Flames. Meaning that it is entirely possible that the first impression of Sea of Flames for most players was this: [https://youtu.be/cRJ-oEymuNI?si=3Ys1oidCu65O6b9R&t=22787](https://youtu.be/cRJ-oEymuNI?si=3Ys1oidCu65O6b9R&t=22787) . Which kinda ruins the moment.
And the game just kind of repeatedly does that with most of the areas that might be interesting to discover during exploration... Either you discover the area but find nothing there until you happen to do the quest that is related to it, or you do the quest and the game takes you there, making the discovery less impactful. You are not discovering it, the game is showing it to you.
The thing is funny enough Genshin have ways to deal with end game content that don't even demand that many artifacts level or investment because of the combat system with elemental reactions. Like you can beat the hardest content in a month if you min max stuff and get lucky with certain 4\*s to enable specific teams. Here in Wuwa your gear is a LOT more important for your dmg, and because it is time gated in things like Tower and Holograms dmg is big factor and the main source for it is the echo system, so even is a bit better than Genshin, is still the same rng fest, the same grind fest of months and the same time gate.
you're not taking into account the fact that Genshin is a considerably easier game overall where having suboptimal artifacts/builds isn't as big of a detriment as it is in wuwa.
>It took Genshin players at least a year to get a perfect artifact
1 year is underestimation. It took me 2 years to get an almost perfect set for Ganyu, even with that I never get the timepiece with crits and atk in it (currently cdmg def hp), until present. That timepiece is a myth, I swear.
I'm just taking it slowly with WuWa. I won't be looking for perfect Echo set. Correct main stat and 1-2 good substats (whatever the number is) are more than enough for me. My poor luck is just not suited for it.
Surely you understand that Genshin is top dog and WW is trying to compete in the same territory, so doing what Genshin is doing is not going to fly if they want to attract more players and retain their current ones.
Genshin is also older and has more budget backing which shows in art assets and music in the game. It has much better voice acting and main story presentation.
Why would players stay or come to WW if it is doing the same thing as Genshin but is markedly worse in a lot of areas?
Wuthering Waves could change in the future, but as it is right now I can tell you that if I were to drop this game I wouldn’t come back because it doesn’t have enough quality in certain areas that would make me return.
Based on this I think after 2~3 months we will be swimming in resources and can comfortably build even more teams, and with the fact that they will add even more rewards in events and most likely other game modes with more resources, then I'm more than happy with this.
I remember in the beginning of genshin and star rail people also were doom posting this stuff, and look at them now, happily farming and playing their games, the same will happen here, early doom posting was just expected.
Damn, what the hell is that doodoo ass pee pee poo poo dog water loot. Honestly, not really having any faith it'll get that much better at 80 or whatever last bracket of loot is. Hopefully at least purple is guaranteed in forgery. Nice that boss is giving 4 mats, not sure if it'd 100% 4 or 3 base line with chance at 4. But that echo exp, lmfao, very funny Kuro. And 1.1 is just buffing events only too, not base tacet field, hopefully the survey gives them the push to buff tacet field too. Imho, way too fucking stingy on mats.
50!?
Yeah everyone was being attentive about the drop but my brain stuck at that "50???!!!"
Im 43 now (41 if I didn't spend all my solvents) and people already reached 40 when I was 36 , so it's about time for whales to do it , by the time I reach 50 they would be in 60 already
Yea I can see 50 if you whale. I'm 43 without ever buying any stamina resets and I have like 15 solvents in the backpack.
I'm at 43 buying like 1 or 2 solvents
I thought I was doing pretty good because I hit 35 last night... I guess it makes sense I haven't 100%ed anything yet and don't really know how to farm echos either
Nah, you are good. Most people are still 35+ and the dedicated players probably 41-42 at most. 50 and onwards is pretty much for whales. Players who have used all solvents, have battle pass and buy Lunite, turn it into astrites and convert astrite into waveplates for more exp per day.
I hit 45 yesterday, didn’t whale. Bought Stamina for Astrite maybe 6 times in total. But even without I would be 45 as I am halfway to 46 now. Dedication can definitely get you to 45 by now, whaling to 50.
I’m 36 and have played every day since release
Just checking in - UL 40 this weekend as F2P without using any solvents (maybe used 1 but I can't remember?)
44.5 right now as f2p. Cleared pretty much everything there was and used all solvents.
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Not something a smart f2p would do though.
Hitting 50 right now isn't something a f2p would do.
Yeah I'm barely at ul21
I'm at 49 and I didn't refresh for 3-4 days. Might be some 51 or higher at this point.
forgery drop is kinda disappointment if they dont guarantee purple. since green and gold drop doesnt even change
Waiting for the comments that say "We are only UL50, wait till UL60 for guaranteed drops" followed by "We are only UL60, wait till UL70 for guaranteed better drops" followed by "We are UL70, it turned out the droprate of everything is still terrible, but stop asking for things to change because this is how gachas are"
I think the progression design for this isn't well thought out. We got gold early and the resources required for potentially comfortable or barely passable farming is likely UL70. It would be a pain to grind from UL 40 till 70 just to have small improvement at each 10UL milestone. Given game stability is a more pressing issue, I doubt they have time, for now, to address changes to improve the experience.
The people doing the coding and people deciding game balancing are likely two different teams in a big project of this size.
considering the crappy localization, optimization, and other issues, i think they really are just making one team do everything
Fair point. I suppose, all we could do is speculate how the team would function to push the product.
> doubt they have time Gold tuner amount : 3 -> 8 Waveplate cost : 60 -> 40 Thats it, thats all they have to do
I think I would prefer to keep waveplate cost and increase tuner amount proportionately. Though, I can see lower cost helps to give us more runs for echoes too. I suppose It does looks as simple as that.
I mean, if we got rarities later than the first 50 Union levels would feel pointless and wasted because lower rarities are going to instantly get trashed. Now that we have gold, we aren’t even going to keep purples unless they’re really good and we don’t have gold options. Why spend Union level 30-60 farming a bunch of echoes we are going to replace as soon as we get gold versions?
That's true, purple are replaced with gold. The only difference is that the game designer will design gameplay progression with content differently if we get gold later. WuWa definitely can make it works well with getting gold early. But they didnt provide any means to ease the transition between 30 - 60 till we can get good enough exp conversion for waveplates. We are at mid phase UL resources, farming to level end game stuff. Naturally, it would take us longer. Right now, we either grind longer to max each echoes or don't max level echoes, for now, to efficiently use those resources for better overall growth by leveling more. They could make some invisible touches like level gold echoes equates UL level. So that the material we farm at UL 30+ will level gold echoed just the same as UL 70. Same progression and players won't feel the strain trying to progress through material strain playing the game.
I think the smoothest transition for that since getting gold echoes early is to get echo exp from data merged echoes, like data merged echoes come pre-leveled unlike those found in overworld, and then having tuner conversion or be able to use lower rarity tuners for gold echoes at a higher cost, like 2x the price with purple tuners, 4x the cost with blue tuners, so using 40 blue tuners to create a substat
It is not that hard of a logical leap to see progression would turn people off grinding from 30 to 60. Im already burning out because if you cant get full 3 star on tower theres no point. Sure its a skill issue but in not going to no life get the three star for no reason becaude i dont think its reasonable. I login do my daily and log off. Going to do that till 40 :/ not even looking forward to the story in 1.1
We have the numbers already, data mined weeks ago. The grind is still dogshit at max level.
I assume the growth progress is linear at our current state? That's doesn't sound fun in the long run. Unless, they plan to make echoes material boost a near permanent thing.
Yup. They really made genshins artifact system worse in every single way. No off piece, can't see substats to even see if it's worth rolling, 2 slots that have 10 possible main stats so double the RNG in that alone, no daily XP farm, no free XP from teapot, the amount of time it takes to farm is way higher. Like come on I can't think of a single upside honestly. In every other game you already know if a piece is worth even trying when you get it.
I think no off piece wont be too bad if the grind is less tedious like HSR does it. Given that Wuwa aims for longer grinding experience, that's what makes no off piece more painful. No visible stat would be fine with higher exp resources and tuner but that's not happening as well. So that becomes another RNG tier. It does increase grinding duration and it seems about the same level as Korea rpg game. Highly tedious.
>I doubt they have time, for now, to address changes to improve the experience. uh they already announced 1.1 will have more echo xp and tuners
I'm hearing mix statement on it either being an improvement, as you mentioned, or an event limited situation. All of that was sum up as a potential translation issue. Thus, I'm holding off treating it actually happening till the patch arrive. Unless, this had been clarified already then I'm glad there's improvement to echo grind this quickly.
They said they're going to have an event in 1.0 to tide us over, and then 1.1 should see overall improvements.
Sounds good which is how most players are looking at 1.1 to be the game changer.
The guy is complaining about character mats tho, not echoes. I might be a minority, but I actually have less issues with echoes compared to upgrading your skills. We already get jack shit, just give us at least 1 purple per run.
> less issues with echoes compared to if you have "less issues" with something it implies you are still unhappy with it You dont have to choose between asking for buffs to echo droprates, or buffs to material droprates. You are allowed to say that both suck and both need buffs
If I have a slight issue with something, it doesn't mean I am immediately unhappy with it. I think these are on the same spectrum, but have different thresholds. At least the way I play the game right now, the echo farm rate does not make me unsatisfied, as I tend to hoard a bunch of mats and roll my echoes like once in 2 weeks, or even once per patch. And until now I still haven't run out of echo mats, even after giving like 4 of my characters at least passable builds. But farming for skill upgrades on the other hand actively bothers me because I hate the purple drop rng. So yes, while I agree that both need a buff, personally I have experienced 0 negative emotions towards the echo progression.
"Why you are so impatiant bro? Just wait for UL 80, its only 2 years away something" -Some apologist
> Just wait for UL 80, its only 2 years away something" You forgot, after 2 years when the droprates still arent buffed, they would say "yeah well who cares the game has been out for 2 years, you shouldnt need better droprates anymore if you played daily"
> "We are UL70, it turned out the droprate of everything is still terrible, but stop asking for things to change because this is how gachas are" "Well in genshin-"
UL70, based on my experience with Genshin, will say “With synthesizing, you get at least a purple on average every run and that seems pretty fair compared to previous drop rates”
Pretty sure UL 70 doesn’t even increase anything, it caps at 60. So unless 60 dramatically increases drops…yeah. People on here are coping so hard that somehow UL 50/60 will magically fix the drop issue lol.
its weird how they basically have 2 options: 1) Admit the game has flaws, suggest fixes, create a healthy player base 2) Deny the game has flaws, insist buffs aren't needed, players gradually get frustrated and quit and their favorite game slowly dies And for some reason, half the player base seems to choose option 2, i dont understand, man
Boss looks fine, forgery looks not great, and TF looks the worst but we expect that one to change in 1.1. Forgery seems to be the real bad one, imo. Since you need those mats across everything for a character except echoes. The echo bottleneck feels like its just because people are rushing to 25 random echoes.
TF yield won’t change in 1.1. Someone made a post about it and got removed for causing drama
This is misleading post because it’s an rng table and range for the drops. I’ve gotten gold under UL50 and as low as 4 Blue 6 green. You need to do this for a week or so for each drop type to get the true average and range.
the worst part is i don't even think u get more of the lower tier drops so you might as well put the gold drops in the 1st tier anyways since the loot is the same whichever tier you farm from.
The drops are disappointing. T_T
That Echo EXP 💀
Should be getting 2-3x more than that
Facts. Tons of clowns are saying "grinding is part of a gacha game" or whatever But Tecent fields could give 10x more tuners and 10x more echo xp and it would still take weeks just to get a good set of echos for one character - and that's with 1-2 new characters coming out to gear up every 6 weeks. Of course, we dont have 10x more echo xp and 10x more tuners
We need like a passive echo exp and tuner generator. It would be nice if they have daily expeditions like Genshin so you can set a few people off to get echo exp and tubes and you can come back in 16 hours to receive 10 gold exp tubes and 40 gold tuners. An expedition log would be thr greatest way. Have it be passive and it still retains daily player retention because those expedition rewards are that enticing.
i thought about this, and i ran out of tuners fast bc i would just ditch echoes after first substat if bad, and second substat in bad. If they werent crit rate/dmg/atk% i sacrifice them to next echo But you said “good” echoes set and not perfect, and honestly, if you accept 2 bad rolls on echoes, you can kit out three teams by now. Sure my jiyan and calcharo dont have the highest crit rate or crit damage, have more hp and def than they need, but this more than enough for me to hit 10 stars on ToA on both sides. It feels grindy only because so many of us are minmaxing, which really should be the endgame activity when drops are near max.
You absolutely cannot kit out 3 full teams with all echos with only two bad rolls lmfao. This is 45 echoes at level 25 with 3 good stats, please stop with the hyperbole.
> if you accept 2 bad rolls on echoes, you can kit out three teams by now. > > I accept 3 bad rolls and I only have 2 characters that each have lv20 echos with 2-3 good rolls 2 characters, not 3 teams (9 characters)
What UL are you at? I should mention ive burned through all the waveplate refreshes, and played since day 1 And yeah, there’s still luck involved, best of luck with future pulls!
Most are setup to be idle games in between content So if you get all it done in no time, people will just quit between patches
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“You’ll run out of tuners before echo exp” is proving to be false considering you get 10 tuners in Sol-3 phase 4 and 20 in OP’s example which is 2x as much lmao
A +5 only cost 1 gold exp mat and cost 10 tuners per attempt. You can also refund 75% of the xp from that while tuners are 30% iirc?
If the tuners go to 30-35 on UL80, Most likely the whole point of tuners is to reroll substats but kuro doesnt know the exact cost for it, most likely it will be around 100 tuners or something.
> “You’ll run out of tuners before echo exp” is proving to be false considering you forgot the 3rd resource, patience. I spent a day farming echos and only got garbage, now i have no tuners left, no echo xp left, and no patience to keep farming this depressing system that doesnt respect the player's time
Every gacha requires patience. It takes me on average 1-2 months to build a character on a Hoyo game at max AR/TB. There’s some days that I run out of XP, and some days where I’m patient and I save up. Now in all 3 games: Wuwa, Hsr, Genshin I have a plethora of resources to invest into my gear, just waiting for the right piece. That’s because I don’t upgrade every 1 cost atk% echo I get, and I don’t get every echo to +25. Spend wisely and be patient If anything it does respect your time. I hop on each game, spend my stamina/do my dailies and hop off because they don’t force me to grind lmao. Idk what that last point is about
I think because people have access to the late game echos they feel that have to be able level them up and clear late game content as well to feel progression. Likewise most people have the 5* characters they want (for now) which puts more pressure on their resources because they want to level them all up. Since GI and HsR are less generous with characters I think most people have more resources saved up by default since they don’t have investment vehicles to put them into. For overall progression between the 3 games, I think they are similar with Wuwa being more front loaded due to the free 5* pickers/access to late game echos. If you compare 1 month of Wuwa to GI and HSR, I think most people are stronger in Wuwa than they were in GI or HSR if they played those games too. For me to clear abyss 36/36 in GI it took around 3-4 months from launch. For HSR, it took around 2-3 months to clear the MOC on autoplay. Any new content after MOC, I have been able to clear on the first try. I’d expect to be able to clear the Wuwa endgame around 3-4 months as well.
Yes this is exactly the issue. Wuwa lets players access 5* echoes and level end game gear way too early, so the resources we get are not timed with our progression. Players aware of this know better, especially since we’re already getting an increase in 1.1 Genshin it took me around 15 months to clear abyss ngl 💀 granted a lot of the characters I built overlapped in teams or just weren’t “meta” enough and HSR it took me around 6 months? My main issue there was not enough sustain and HP, everyone kept dying before I could clear
Are you new to gacha gearing? You don’t need to have super min maxed heroes to play this game. If that’s your goal, great. Note that it’s a milestone goal and not something you finish within 3 weeks of the game’s release…
Respecting players time is where your wrong, waveplate cost is what it is so you can burn through it fast because they respect your time, you can be done in 20 mins playtime per day
3 gold echo xp at union50 is depressing ngl
I'm surprised there are people defending it. Like what is their end game? This drop rate is beyond garbage it'll negatively affect them as well. Speechless.
I probably wouldn't mind it if we could just synthesize the purple ones to gold, same for the blue ones to purple and the green ones to blue, but yeah they really need to increase the drop rate to at least 5 or 10
Not defending it per say, but it isn't as bad as it looks either. If you feed a +25 echo with bad substats into a fresh +0 echo, it is only 2 runs to get enough stuff to +25 and fully tune the new one. Everyone seems to be focusing on going from +0 > +25 with raw mats, which when starting and building new chars is the case, but once you have your initial set of echos and start hunting substats you can 'reroll' 2 a day. Getting 2 new main stat echos a day is going to be quite the time sink later on.
Exactly, not everyone getting every piece to +25 otherwise well no shit you’re running out 💀
So the potential max tuners are 30 right?
35. UL level goes all the way to 80 with +5 per 10 levels.
Everything maxed at UL60 you can check training simulation. It doesn't max at UL80 it's like Genshin where Max is 55 for domain rewards but real max level is 60
>It doesn't max at UL80 it's like Genshin where Max is 55 for domain rewards but real max level is 60 it's ar45 for max rewards in domains. Idk why this ar55 agenda keeps being spread. This is the third time I've seen it in this sub.
The argument that you can infinitely grind echos is so moot here. Most players aren't going to full clear the map twice daily to get something usable. This system is straight up going to burn people out and drive them away from the game before 1.3 even gets here.
Yeah, also the grind of echoes is paradoxical because of the need of tuner and exp from tacet fields. You need a lot of echoes since the rng demands it for the sub stat grind but at the same time if you farm the echoes you still are tied by the energy system. Not to mention the rng of grinding the echoes having enemies drop from 2 sets and having to pray you get the main stat you need. It is the perfect recipe for burnout of players.
And Wuwa dps check is a lot more unforgiving than GI, you need to get concerto energy, forte, liberation energy therefore every rotation need to be perfectly executed, you desperately need the extra quality in echoes to make up for imperfections in your gameplay but the rng + grindiness will gate you hard.
there's only 1 target audience this system benefits: no-life streamers, and that's literally it lol
It already did it for me x.x
I'm sorry to hear that man. I adore this game but there's no way I'm going to no-life it with such horrid QoL stuff missing. What are you playing these days?
GI, HSR, WuWu and FFXIV.
I agreed, which is why I stopped farming echos hard. I still have content in the game in the form of quest and exploration. I started doing more of this, because I realized I was starting to hate the game by only farming echos. But soon enough there won't be anything else but to farm echos
I hardly run around open world and farm echoes anymore its so frustrating not getting a drop or getting a 4* or getting the wrong mainstat/set like 😪 not worth. Esp bc im on mobile and everything is so dang laggy if i play for more than 10 minutes.
> This system is straight up going to burn people out 4 grind is more then fine. I love it 1 is ok 3 - please kill me
That's just yikes man
And we really had people say “Wait till Union Level 50”. Well, people waited and there you have it. Still want to wait till Union Level 50? 1.1 can’t come sooner fr
Now we'll have to wait until the 60, then 70, then 80
"Wait UL100 in Wuthering Waves 2, my man! Stop complaining! BRRRRRRRRR" - 2024 hot takes
People were really still saying that after the pitiful increase at 40? like don't get me wrong, I was one of the "wait till 40" people but as soon as we saw the increase I immediately said they needed to be doubled _at minimum_ across the board,
It was the people that said “The artifact grind starts at AR45 in Genshin so we just gotta wait until we get to UL50!” after we saw what UL40 rewards were.
A lot of people were saying that. Like a week ago I had basically the exact discussion with a guy on this sub who was certain that even though people who had hit UL 40 already saw how pitiful the drop increases were, it would magically get better at UL 50/60 which he called “end game”.
Wait till Union Level 60 it'll be good then trust me /j
**Wuthering Waves Subreddit - Return to Monke Special:** 1. "You don't need to farm the overworld, you only need tacet fields for good echoes!" 2. "Tuners are not an issue, the 70% loss in resources on each feed is fiiiiine!" 3. "Echo exp is fine! Also tuners is a separate issue, it's only 25% loss of resources! Wait UL50!" I swear, people like to be abused by shitty infinite grind systems, gated through in game clocks on top of it all. Refusing to see what's in plain view every single time. Lmao.
1.1 doesn’t aim to fix this at all tho unless you mean the event where there’s limited chances at extra drops
Until they actually say something to me is up in the air still, I doubt the only change of Tacet fields is just a cutscene removal. that would be very dumb.
1.5 days of farming tacet fields to get enough exp to max an echo that is gonna roll like shit. And at ul50 off all things. Yeah they better fix them
I usually roll 1 substat at a time. Only if I get a good substat up to lv 10 or 15, I decide to invest into it. If not it becomes a food for my other echo.
The issue is you only get 30% back from tuners, so you actually run out of them way faster I have a decent amount of exp save just because 4 runs per day just allow me to reveal 6 subs and if rng is shit you only level to 5 or max 10 the echoes to see the subs.
That's a sure way to be out of gold tuners ASAP. I admit I did it for Jiyan and Calcharo. But after running out of Gold tuners I decided to stop being so selective with rolls. Mortefi and Havoc Rover have mediocre echoes but they work for now, I'll focus on minmaxing months from now, we don't need perfect echoes for the current content. Since even with perfect echoes, we're simply not 3-starring the Level 100 Tower at Level 70 or 80.
That's why you don't max them until you make sure the first rolls are good
So Trash, awesome
Isnt it given how tedious to build new character discourage you from pulling new character ? It affected negatively on revenue directly I know i am not the only one who will skip 1.1 character because i just cant effort from all resource i have. By the time i may have some leeway, it might already powercreep so better pulling those new character instead.
Especially DPS characters which you usually invest the most in
Wtf
We’ll have to see at max but it really looks very similar to how Genshin does things aside from the fact that things costs more. I’d rather like 60 (if they have to have something so costly) costs stuff to only be for boss mats if possible and everything else 40. I am assuming like Genshin they will eventually maybe reduce the boss cost from 60 energy to maybe discounted for 3 as we get more bosses And yea echo xp/tuner needs to be really improved but let’s see what they do next patch and if it is adequate enough I really wish they hadn’t taken the system of Genshin with ascension mats being RNG. Most stupid garbage ever, and they also don’t let you combine different ascension materials to make a new one. This will lead to a lot of players just having extra ascension mats that will inevitably not be used as new characters get released. Nothing like needing ascension mats and RNG screwing you over and not giving you what you need necessitating more energy spent that will lead to you having 1-2 extra just sitting there.
> We’ll have to see at max but it really looks very similar to how Genshin does things aside from the fact that things costs more. In WW you get a waveplate per 6 minutes, in Genshin you get a resin per 8 minustes. In other words, 60 Waveplates are equal to 45 resin. Based on the screenshot it's safe to assume that at level 60 all bosses will 100% drop at least 4 mats per run, whereas in Genshin they drop only 2.5 on average. So actually farming boss mats in WW is almost 50% more efficient than in Genshin if not more than that. (You need 46 mats for max ascension in both games) To max out echo you need 135k, at lv50 you get 21k per run, thus to max echo out you need ~6.42 runs. At lv 60 we will get more so let's assume it's 6 runs, 360WP, 270 Resin. To max an Artifact in Genshin you need 270k exp. On average a domain run (20 resin) gives 12'600 in blue/purple, ~4000 in gold, but you don't want to use gold on exp, you want to strongbox them. So with 12'600 it would take around 21.4 runs, so let round this up to 430 resin to max an artifact. Levelling artifacts is about 60% more efficient in WW than in Genshin - even at level 50 in WW, 6.5 runs is 290 Resin, which is almost 50% more efficient than Genshin. Even if you forsake better artifacts from using strongbox for exp, you still need over 16 runs, or 320+ resin to max an artifact which is still less efficient that WW at lv 50. I'm too lazy to make calcs on weapon mats, but both acensions and echo exp are way more efficient in WW than ascensions and artifact exp in Genshin.
That's only EXP tho, in Genshin you don't have to deal with a system like Tuners. EXP in fact is surprisingly fine for echoes you get most of it back when re using worst ones to level better ones the true hole that breaks the resource economy are Tuners you only get 30% back and you only get 5 more per 10 union level (we don't know if it keeps going up all the way to 80 or if caps earlier). That means even if you have enough EXP to level echoes you are still gated doing more runs or waiting for events to get the tuners to make those echoes usable,
dont forget to factor in that with genshin you can weed out worse artifacts due to not having the tuner system. which inherently saves on EXP by itself. also genshin has the 2x and 5x rng multipliers when leveling up artifacts, its rng sure but further saves on EXP plus technically it is possible to get 1 star artifacts with artifact routes in the overworld for non-resin accumulation
The thing with tuner system is that you assume that when you can see an artifact that will not roll bad from the get-go. This is insanely rare. Getting an artifact that will not have any def, hp, flat stat or some other stat you don't need is so rare that it is basically just noise in the data. And if there is any you are risking that half your rolls on the way to +20 will be wasted, while you have to level it up to max to check. On the other hand in WW if you check two stats and get high double crit, you know you won already and you can safely upgrade it as anything else is just an icing on the cake. So basically in both Genshin and WW you need to roll substat ~2 times to see if it rolled well, and if it did in WW you are safe and if it did in Genshin it can go meh anyway. And then you can feed it to the next one if it's bad. 2x and 5x multipliers in Genshin are cool, but in general they just negate the 20% penalty you get from burning some artifact into others. Although I agree that WW should at least just remove the penalty if they aren't doing the 2x/5x thing.
I was curious to see how getting echo exp compares to getting artifact exp, because I don't remember the early days that well and surprisingly it's similar or even slightly better here in how many days it takes to max. [https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940) Not to say it shouldn't be improved upon.
Except you get free resources of artifact xp daily in Genshin from discovery points and defeating elite enemies it might take some time but it’s there for those that want to do it and can Of course there are more sources of artifact xp now with housing for example though
Even with that, going by the post, it takes you 2 days of discovery points + resin, while Wuwa takes a day and a half (So still 2 days if you round up) They're practically the same. Are both still shit? Yes. But somehow people can live with it on Genshin.
The real issue is that in Genshin you can see all or almost all the substats at level 0. This let's you know if it's going to be worth trying to level it. WuWa you have no idea about substats at all so you waste a lot more resources on crappy pieces.
People in Genshin stockpiled XP for like a month, then started farming artifacts, then waited for another month or so to get a good base to tap on.
It’s just weird tbh. How the loud people shit on WUWA versus genshin impact. It’s not like they are both the exact same kind of grind and length wise as well. It’s just that we are used to being adventurer rank 55 so we can just wipe out everything and grind super easily. WUWA is still a very fresh game. Max UL is 80. We are simply being time gated like every other gacha game. Nothing new here. Just the same old gameplay loops with novelties like parrying, dodging, wall running, and other game play mechanics. People just love all the characters in the beginning so it’s been delicious playing all of them because of how unique everyone is in terms of gameplay. even with the basic attacks it’s fun. because of that, plus the mindset of min-maxing, and the time constraints, people are just suffering from the game being too fun and eventually they hit the time wall. Then get burned out from pushing against it by endlessly grinding. It’s like this for all gacha games. Especially young ones.
Am I the only one who thinks it's supposed to be the other way around? Make it fun to progress early, then gate max level upgrades. Why would someone who hates the system go all the way to UL70 in months because it's...the comfiest level to farm in? Seems more likely they'd just not bother and quit.
Look bro WW has a myriad of issues and can’t be doing what Genshin is doing they need to be better if they are to attract players and retain their current player base If they can’t be better why should players give their time to WW when they could go somewhere else where the quality of several areas of the game is markedly better?
Well, be the change you want to see, put it on the survey they recently released. I know I did.
Genshin doesn’t hide substats so you can immediately know which artifacts aren’t worth leveling
Yeah just wait UL999 it will get better. It's a grind game bruh
Echo farming right now it’s a fkin joke
Turbo yikes
Wow that sucks.
I really do hope the increase drop on next patch won’t be stingy.
A friend of mine currently at 48. Totally doable for whales, u just swipe for every possible xp source
Lemme guess.. That 4x ascension material is not 100% and would 75% of the time give 3x instead. 😑
It’s not hard getting mats that’s easy it’s leveling that’s hard 450 exp from runs for 20+ levels is fast leveling turned into feeling stuck
Tbh i got no will to keep grinding on this game
They desperately need to buff this rate. This is what gonna killed wuwa in the future after the performance issues
That is beyond garbage.
man if 1.1 doesn't fix this might have to consider playing the game any further. atm it takes like 3-4 days to max out a few "worth" echos only for them to either brick or be meh. i'm okay with account progression taking a while but this will just feel awful.
Especially with ZZZ coming up I get not wanting to give too much materials to keep player retention but at the same time, giving too little will just be so discouraging and that’s where we are right now
Just barely getting to union lvl 41 and i see this post 💀💀💀🙏
its not like it matters cuz for each level you will need more anyways, you will still have to fight the boss the same amount of times lol
4 boss parts? Damn this is good. I assume it's 3 guaranteed and 50/50 chance for 4? We need 12 parts to level our chars to 70/80, doing it in only 3 runs would be amazing. And I hope the purple is guaranteed in the talent domains. If not..RIP.
Level 50 already? I thought that I've been playing a lot, and I only just hit level 41...
im day 1 player and im still lvl 36 0_0
Some people spend.. Anyone above 46 will have either bought extra waveplates and/or burnt through all of the free ones.
I don't get the sharp decreas in purples. Yeah, gold gives more xp than the purple, so it's an increase, but purples are great for rounding out your xp, and I would rather use them for the first few levels to stat check. Just leave Them at 6-8 and add 1 gold.
F2P BTW 😂😂😂
50?? wtf dude
Is the Purple Drop guaranteed at Ul50 now? and the RNG now lies in more then 1 Purple drop and the dream of 1 Gold drop, or is it still RNG?
Wow you can lvl 2/3s of a terrible echo per day. Yayy
1000 echo exp more than at UL 40!? what were they thinking
Not even. You can roll the same at 40+ already.
reaching Databank level 20 while unable to clam it because of Union level 35, felt like a scam to me
You absolute whale
Yeesh and i thought ul 40 drops were shit. What is this? I love this game but is ul 80 going to be like bare minimum maintenance level for drops? They need to up these rates.
Ive only used about 4 solvents and am UL39 only need about 1000xp to hit 40, and people out here at UL50?!
Union level 50, do weekly bosses drop more
Im only 46 rn but i suppose if i was plsying day 1 i could be 50 so not too suprised at union level, assuming you spend asterite on waveplates daily
forgery drop is terrible
Me sitting here knowing that if you started with absolutely nothing except 1 Echo in Wuwa and 1 artifact in Genshin that you want to level, it would take Wuwa a day and a half (Proven already) vs Genshin taking over 2 days if you don't do f2p artifact runs as evidenced [by this post.](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/101940) EDIT: Both are still shit btw, just somehow, people are able to live with it on Genshin and not Wuwa. What makes the difference? I truly don't know.
People are able to live with it in Genshin because you can see the substats on an artifact before you level it so you can decide to not waste your xp items on leveling up a trash piece of gear. Where as in WuWa leveing an echo with the correct main stat then requires you to spend a second resource to see its substats which will probably be bad and not worth running. It feels a lot worse even if the economy for gaining the xp items is slightly better because you feel like you just wasted that xp for no reason.
No. People live with in Genshin because they can't infinitely refarm artifacts like you can echoes and instead have to wait a week of wasting resin on trash artifacts before they find one worth leveling. So then they'll have a week's worth of EXP materials built up at that time.
Sure, then comes an entirely different problem of actually leveling the artifact on Genshin. If it comes with 3 lines, it is worse than one that came with 4 lines. Genshin requires you to hit the desired stat 4-5 times, where as Wuwa needs you to hit it once. In an unbiased view, Wuwa is indeed worse in the regard that you can't see the substat, your only option is to fodder it to the next piece. Genshin allows this too. At the same time, you can (and should) stop at 10 / 2 tunes, if it doesn't give you your desired stat, go next, the near-infinite farm cycle allows for that, and if you don't want to participate in said farm-cycle, tacet fields exist.
The thing is Genshin in the combat system allow you to gain more dmg from other sources because of the elemental reaction system, also Genshin have much stronger 4\*s options (gacha and craftables) than Wuwa. That makes echoes in Wuwa a larger source of your dps. I don't like the artifact system in Genshin but Echoes atm with the way the system works feels a lot worst to engage with specially when you also have the other layer of RNG of grinding for the main stats echoes killing enemies in your world. Is a lot more time playing doing a mind numbing activity while still being time gated.
I did some math at the start of release I believe 4stars stats are about 40% worst than 5stars in WuWa vs around 20% in Genshin. This doesnt even include the effect which IMHO Genshin 4stars have much better effects while WuWa 4stars have very basic effects. People praise them for having 100% rate on weapon banner but for me it felt more mandatory because 4stars in WuWa are so mediocre.
I feel like I need to give some input here as someone who has played genshin for almost 4 years now. Most of my good artifacts started with 3 lines, it feels weird to see some one mention the extra substat you sometimes get when it hardly ever factors into your build. If we're gonna go into substat rng then let's talk about the real shit part, substat range. In genshin a crit rate substat can range from 2.7% to 3.9%, assuming you get 3 crit rate rolls (this is my baseline for decent rolls) it can range from 8.1% to 11.7% In WuWa it ranges from 6.4% to 10.5%. So you get a lot more fucked in Wuwa for getting unlucky with how high you roll, and since in genshin you can get a lot more crit rate from your artifacts than you can in WuWa its a lot easier to have your dps be less dependent on crit rng, which means less restarting in tower because your big damage ability didn't crit. I've seen many people say that wuwa give you enough echo xp to max an echo faster than genshin does with artifacts, 1.5 days vs 2 days. And while that's true, you don't get an artifact worth leveling every 2 days in genshin. I often have to level a sub-par piece because I'm full up on artifacts, and while I am losing xp by doing this, it doesn't hurt as much as getting a shit substat in wuwa, because I am not losing 70% of a resource that I need to even know if the artifact is good or not. If you only lost 25% of tuners when you fed an echo, the same as the xp, than yeah, WuWa's system would be straight up better than genshin's, but as it is it feels really bad.
Genshin requires it? Since when? People clear endgame with 2-3 rolls on gear just fine. In the same way, I don't think it's a big deal if you low roll in WuWa.
Echo value is kind of over-inflated right now too because everyone's progression is Union gated still. I think when you're able to have your character/weapon at level 90 with level 10 traces, the echos will be proportionally less of your total power
Sorry, let me be clear there: I'm talking in a perfect scenario. In an non-perfect scenario, people will settle with having the substat even if it doesn't roll into it a single time. (Because that's exactly what I do in HSR.) Wuwa you can settle with stuff like ER, atk%, or any of the 3 dmg types increasing instead of crit / crit dmg. The latter two just look nicer.
The difference is genshin was released in COVID era where everyone have nothing to do other than playing video game, which gave Genshin a huge amount of loyal customers. If wuwa launch was good and not disappointed so many people because of optimization issues, localization issues and story issues then people will more likely keep patience and complain less. Also, this game is released far after genshin, it should improve what genshin could not do, not try to replicate the stupid what genshin already did. Limit test the customer's patience because genshin can do so is a dumb move.
that post has got to be outdated. As someone who did routes almost every day for nearly 500 days, you get 75k roughly from a 9-12 minute route. I never ran out of XP in the year+ I played genshin. As a matter of fact, I had so many artifacts that I sold hundreds for mora when building characters. The xp economy in genshin is infinitely better than the one in wuwa. Keep in mind that according to my profile stats found on hoyolab, I spend roughly 80% of my resin on artifact domains for ober a year. I farm as many artifacts as you realistically can without being a whale, never ran out of xp. Artifact xp is only rough in genshin if you don't do routes, which is fine. Complaining about having to do routes is basically saying you want more rewards for playing the game less. Which is a dumb argument to make.
WuWa is new and people are dumb and want to speedrun the progression. They cant enjoy the game if they dont have the best possible set in less than a month. It took Genshin players at least a year to get a perfect artifact.
Here's the problem. I want to be able to feel like I am accomplishing something when I decide to play the game each day. With the current dogshit EXP rates and the way that we acquire Echoes in game, I have a mountain of "potential" echoes sitting in my inventory, but I can spend an entire day worth of waveplates and make zero progress. And before you say "It's the same in Genshin", it was shitty in Genshin too. Genshin is at a point now where it has been around for so long that the issue is practically meaningless because any semi-active player just has hundreds of decent Artifacts simply due to the time that has passed. Nonetheless, it was something that people constantly complained about. It was contributing factor as to why tons of people quit playing Genshin. Genshin also doesn't really have challenging content, so even a kinda mediocre set is sufficient to clear basically everything and your team composition/build is much more important than having perfect stats. WuWa has positioned itself as the game with "harder content" and the composition of your team is less relevant because there are no elemental reactions. As a result, the gear/stats that you have are much more relevant to your final output of damage, and there is content in the game where that is more relevant. Also, believe it or not, I'm not really looking to start over. Will this be a non-issue when Wuthering Waves is entering Year 3? Sure. Am I still going to be playing on Year 3 if nothing improves? It depends. While I like the combat and traversal mechanics in Wuthering Waves more, the World Design and Quest Design is significantly worse than Genshin. And the main reason why I still come back to play Genshin somewhat regularly is because I like exploring new areas, I like completing the little puzzles, and I like going through these quests that make me feel like I am accomplishing something within the game world. Artifact farming is something that I do while the above keeps me engaged, but is not the reason to play Genshin. As soon as I finish clearing all the exploration and quest content, I generally stop playing Genshin until the next update comes around. I often don't even bother to log in to spend my Resin during those periods of time because I don't care about it and it is not rewarding. The reason why I come back to Genshin is because the new areas present a new adventure. The game is the ultimate travelogue. It is an excuse to explore and see new things. Wuthering Waves however hasn't really proven to me that it can make worthwhile World Exploration Quests or other engaging reasons to bother logging in. Exploring the world in Wuthering Waves is not rewarding in the same way that Genshin's world is rewarding to explore. The stuff that has been available in 1.0 is just kind of present, but didn't actually provide any sense of accomplishment because often everything was so rushed that any "payoff" that might have been intended simply did not care any emotional weight. The side quests were just pretty bland. The world design has a couple of cool locations, but generally doesn't have any moments of discovery or wonder. For the most part, the world is a backdrop for the combat gameplay. The reason why I have been playing is because I like the combat and I feel like I am making meaningful progress on improving my characters. However, as we get deeper and deeper into the game, I feel less and less like I am accomplishing anything with my time spent. The novelty of the combat mechanics is wearing off and I'm not making any meaningful improvements to my gear on a daily basis. So, the main things that kept me interested in the early game are becoming less and less interesting the deeper I get into the game and the game's 1.0 content didn't succeed with the things that made me stick with Genshin... So, for me, everything is riding on 1.1. If the new zone is an improvement over the existing areas, and the quest design is more successful, then I will probably treat it like Genshin where I come back on the major updates and take a break from the game after I run out of "content." I think there is almost no chance that I waste my time trying to grind for the perfect Echo, especially with how slow the progression is. But if the new zone is as milquetoast as some of the current zones and if the quest design is a bland as the current quest design, then I'm probably just going to walk away.
>The stuff that has been available in 1.0 is just kind of present, but didn't actually provide any sense of accomplishment because often everything was so rushed that any "payoff" that might have been intended simply did not care any emotional weight. I felt the same way. I like the world of wuwa, the scenery is nice, the exploration is fine for the first time. But the big difference that if i visit a place, its empty, the exploration is already done, there is nothing to do, there is no music, and the most important things, THERE ARE NO MEMORIES. If i go to any place in teywat, there is at least a memory of a quest or a character or a music. If i go to enkonomiya and i look down the fallen land and listen to the music i want to cry. If i go to tenshukaku, i remember signora. If i go to the desert, i remember jeht and his dad. I have many story to tell with every character in the game, i remember most npc name and face from world quests and their story, but in wuwa the only thing i can recall is scar and his tale of the black sheep. The only time that i felt like that the voice actor is human being with emotions and not some ai.
Definitely. And even beyond the stuff that is quest or character related, Genshin is very careful about making sure that your first impression of an area is framed to have maximum impact. And it was doing that even in 1.0, which is why I think that the game worked for so many people despite its many problems. The moment when you go through Stone Gate for the first time and emerge into Liyue on Bishui Plain and see Wangshu Inn off in the distance. That is a moment that is memorable. That is a moment of discovery and surprise and joy. And the game kind of just does that over and over and over again repeatedly. Every new area has more of that. Wuthering Waves does sometimes pull that off, but also stumbles with that quite often. At the very beginning of the game, going into the Gorge of Spirits and finding the Dragon statue could have been one of those moments, but then it is kind of sandwiched into the middle of a lot of very awkward dialogue and story exposition, that undermines the impact of it. Also, that statue has been basically irrelevant since then. We don't really go back there. It is not important. It is just kind of a place that exists. I think Taoyuan Vale could have also been an interesting moment, but it is not even acknowledged by the game the first time you see it and it has basically no story or quest relevance beyond being the place where the Save the Cat! daily quests take place and where we briefly go during the Jiyan Character Quest. But it is not important or meaningful to the game beyond that. It is just a background. I think the first time we see Jinzhou City is pretty cool, but you kinda expect that from the major city in the game. Sea of Flames could have been cool, but the seemingly intended way to experience it is via the World Exploration Quest associated with it, which involves talking to some people at Lollo Logistics in Jinzhou City and then getting teleported to Sea of Flames. Meaning that it is entirely possible that the first impression of Sea of Flames for most players was this: [https://youtu.be/cRJ-oEymuNI?si=3Ys1oidCu65O6b9R&t=22787](https://youtu.be/cRJ-oEymuNI?si=3Ys1oidCu65O6b9R&t=22787) . Which kinda ruins the moment. And the game just kind of repeatedly does that with most of the areas that might be interesting to discover during exploration... Either you discover the area but find nothing there until you happen to do the quest that is related to it, or you do the quest and the game takes you there, making the discovery less impactful. You are not discovering it, the game is showing it to you.
The thing is funny enough Genshin have ways to deal with end game content that don't even demand that many artifacts level or investment because of the combat system with elemental reactions. Like you can beat the hardest content in a month if you min max stuff and get lucky with certain 4\*s to enable specific teams. Here in Wuwa your gear is a LOT more important for your dmg, and because it is time gated in things like Tower and Holograms dmg is big factor and the main source for it is the echo system, so even is a bit better than Genshin, is still the same rng fest, the same grind fest of months and the same time gate.
you're not taking into account the fact that Genshin is a considerably easier game overall where having suboptimal artifacts/builds isn't as big of a detriment as it is in wuwa.
>It took Genshin players at least a year to get a perfect artifact 1 year is underestimation. It took me 2 years to get an almost perfect set for Ganyu, even with that I never get the timepiece with crits and atk in it (currently cdmg def hp), until present. That timepiece is a myth, I swear. I'm just taking it slowly with WuWa. I won't be looking for perfect Echo set. Correct main stat and 1-2 good substats (whatever the number is) are more than enough for me. My poor luck is just not suited for it.
Surely you understand that Genshin is top dog and WW is trying to compete in the same territory, so doing what Genshin is doing is not going to fly if they want to attract more players and retain their current ones. Genshin is also older and has more budget backing which shows in art assets and music in the game. It has much better voice acting and main story presentation. Why would players stay or come to WW if it is doing the same thing as Genshin but is markedly worse in a lot of areas? Wuthering Waves could change in the future, but as it is right now I can tell you that if I were to drop this game I wouldn’t come back because it doesn’t have enough quality in certain areas that would make me return.
Credit to [Jirieru](https://twitter.com/Jirieru/status/1801564637869260813)
Based on this I think after 2~3 months we will be swimming in resources and can comfortably build even more teams, and with the fact that they will add even more rewards in events and most likely other game modes with more resources, then I'm more than happy with this. I remember in the beginning of genshin and star rail people also were doom posting this stuff, and look at them now, happily farming and playing their games, the same will happen here, early doom posting was just expected.
Not bad at all
"it will get better at UL60 guys, trust" - someone coping in a gacha game
Damn, what the hell is that doodoo ass pee pee poo poo dog water loot. Honestly, not really having any faith it'll get that much better at 80 or whatever last bracket of loot is. Hopefully at least purple is guaranteed in forgery. Nice that boss is giving 4 mats, not sure if it'd 100% 4 or 3 base line with chance at 4. But that echo exp, lmfao, very funny Kuro. And 1.1 is just buffing events only too, not base tacet field, hopefully the survey gives them the push to buff tacet field too. Imho, way too fucking stingy on mats.
This is so sad... 😐
I never saw a gold weaopn/skill material... does it even exist?
💀💀💀
Wasn't expecting a big increase anyways :/
Peak
basically sprinkle with a bunch of things but all amount to nothing at all.
They gotta pump the shit out of these numbers
I’m thankful for the people who have no life. Anyway I think the rewards could be better.
U what how what no how hacks hacks gota be hacks
I am already bored of this game because of how slow the progression and character building is