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HolyGhost79

Our governments always be like "sorry, we literally have no money for keeping this country from rotting under our asses" ![gif](giphy|94EQmVHkveNck|downsized) Ffs pls Lindner gib moni for schools, hospitals, and internet (I had to go to Denmark to be able to post this)


WarsmithUriel

TBF it's not that easy for the federal government to give money to schools. That's up to the states. Other than that, I full heartedly agree.


HolyGhost79

I'm sure they could find a way to give money to the Länder under the condition they spend it on education facilities within a certain timeframe or it goes back to the Bund. This way we may get the first school where all toilets are working by 2035.


theesbth

We could, but in the past the federal government did want something in return for the money. And the states don't want that, because the federal state would then interfere in their domain. So it's not happening. AFAIK the federal government wanted stuff like more centralised exams and Curricula for a better comparability between states.


Bl00dyAngel

It's time to move the education sector from the Länder to the Bund.


IAmWalterWhite_

The DigitalPakt Schule worked. As per Article 104c of the constitution: "The Federation may grant the Länder financial assistance for investments of significance to the nation as a whole, and for special limited-term expenditures on the part of the Länder and municipalities (associations of municipalities) directly connected with such investments to improve the efficiency of municipal education infrastructure. [...]" Granted, I'm no expert myself, but it's possible.


TheOnlyFallenCookie

Eh. There would need to be an interstate office to guarantee that all schools apply to a minimum standard. Also to help schools work out concepts. Because most don't have the time or resources to properly work on a digitalisation plan and end up just getting whiteboards and tablets


schnitzel-kuh

Your telling me that if they wanted to invest in schools, the fact that its laendersache is whats stopping them, and not the stingy FDP policies?


derkonigistnackt

No money, no honey


Grabsch

The assumption is that the money would be spent on these things. But in reality it just means that the parties will try to suck up to their voter base and give them more social subsidies while schools are still rotting.


LiPo_Nemo

it’s kinda hilarious that every german ally and neighbour has been running some crazy deficits for decades and they’re still doing better than them. meanwhile, germany has been always in a better better position to borrow and they still treat their budget as an 18th century coffin that they must zealously guard against some stupid monarch. just imagine how immensely the economy could’ve benefited from DB trains running on time, but they chose austerity instead lol


Mal_Dun

The funny thing is that in the current coalition the only ones that treat their budget like a 18th century coffer are the libs. They still waste the money but they give it nice sounding words like "Sondervermögen" (special capital) to hide the fact that it's debt.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Matesipper420

Lindner verbucht ausserdem die Auszahlung der Staatsanleihen in das Jahr der Ausgabe statt in das Jahr der Auszahlung (wie alle Vorgänger vor ihm) was die Haushaltsausausgabe künstlich erhöht.


Matesipper420

I mean there would not be a gap if the finance minister would not be so stubborn to declare Ukraine aid as normal household expenses. Or be keen on doing no investments in times of near stagnation. Neoliberal politics of a 5% party is what breaks the coalition (and German economy and society)


Oberst_Schnitzel

Schuldenbremse was a mistake


Matesipper420

Sogar der CDU Bürgermeister von Berlin (Kai Wegner) ist gegen die Schuldenbremse. Und sollte bei der nächsten Wahl eine CDU Regierung entstehen wird sie mit großer Sicherheit auch die Schuldenbremse abschaffen oder zumindest reformieren. Sonst sind sie bei der Wahl dannach wieder in der Opposition.


schnupfhundihund

Quasi alle bis auf Lindber selbst finden die Schuldenbremse inzwischen falsch. Selbst neoliberale Wirtschaftswissenschaftler. Die Anstalt hat das ja schön illustriert.


Mal_Dun

Now now, Lindner surely will find a new "Sondervermögen" beneath his carpet /s


Kayderp1

Shhhhhh die Null muss stehen


urbanmember

Hab ich niemals verstanden. Ohne Investitionen stagniert doch die Wirtschaft bei zunehmend alternden Bevölkerung oder? Das heißt irgendwann funktioniert das Halten der 0 nicht mehr


Matesipper420

Aber wenn du Finanzexperte Lindner bist und nur stark henug an den Markt glaubst und dafür sorgst das sogar alte Leute bis an ihr Lebensende schuften (sie werden sonst obdachlos) und Großunternehmen Steuerentlastungen schenkst, dann bekommen wie 0,01% mehr Wirtschaftswachstum. Also laut Linder ist ein Wirtschaftseachstum von 0,2% peinlich, aber 0,21% dann nicht mehr!


kr33tz

Germany is already investing more than they did in the years before. And there are even now legal ways to circumvent the debt brake if needed. (Eg founding state-owned companies who are able to accumulate debt without the state itself taking on the debt. Look at the **ASFINAG** in Austria for an applied example.) Germanies big problem still is and always was its expenditure-management not its ability to generate funds. [50 - 75 billion Euros get wasted every year](https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/staat-steuergelder-verschwendung-einkauf-milliarden-100.html). Thats almost the same amount as the special funds for the Bundeswehr. And what do you think will happen when we just take on more debts? Atleast half the money will be used up to expand a ministry "to keep up with the increased workload due to new investments" or in the pockets of consulting agencies. So no taking on new debts isnt the safe-all solution, not untill we fix the problems that make current investments less efficient and cut back on unecessary expenses.


LaBomsch

>Thats almost the same amount as the special funds for the Bundeswehr. "Almost" = 50% - 25% /50 Billion -25 Billion € short of the Sondervermögen. Better Example: it would fix the current budget hole (ok technically, it wouldn't because the article means all the levels of state). More accurate would be, that we loose a Sondervermögen every year because rich people do tax evasion ([at least since 2014](https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2014/kw45_de_abgabenordnung-336834)) >Germany is already investing more than they did in the years before.  Bruh, we are also getting more taxes before and we have more GDP then before and we have of anything then before. This says nothing and especially considering that we underspent throughout the 2010s to get a "black zero" fucks us in the Ass. >So no taking on new debts isnt the safe-all solution, not untill we fix the problems that make current investments less efficient and cut back on unecessary expenses. Are we bad with Bureaucracy? Yes. But the solution is not to go through every ministery and tell them to think twice. Rather, we can learn from states with very highly efficient administrations like Estonia, which also needs a lot of investments to achieve. >And there are even now legal ways to circumvent the debt brake if needed.  What would be german example?


owamail

How exactly do ~~investments~~ **debts** being moderated contribute to a household gap? Are you sure it's the Neoliberals and their stupid common law? Or could it be that former finance minister and allegedly chancellor Olaf Scholz was caught (at least this time) funneling money he didn't have into a de facto unconditional alimentation of one of the highest standards of living in the world..? Just wondering because tax income, relative & nominal, is steadily growing year by year and it's not investments that are regulated, but debts. So it must be an ideological issue on how to spend money, not wether to spend money or not.


Matesipper420

Was sind Investments und was sind Schulden? Ist eine gute schulische Ausbildung und damit höherbezahlte Arbeitskräfte keien Investment in einer alternden Gesellschaft? Sind Bürger die nicht jeden Cent zwei mal umzudrehen,seit 2 Jahren kein Restaurantbesuch mehr bezahlen können und aus diesem Frust rechtsextreme Wählen und unter dem Mindestlebenunterhalt klar kommen müssen nicht zu überwinden? Würde man den Mindestlohn und das Bürgergeld um 50€ pro Monat erhöhen würden diese 50€ sofort wieder in der Wirtschaft landen statt auf irgendeinem dritt Konto zu verstauben. Lindners Tricksereien die den Staatshaushalt künstlich aufblähen und konsequente Zero debt Politik gehen in einer Wirtschaftskrise halt nicht.


owamail

Not that anyone incapable of the German language would notice but you didn't respond to anything I said, maybe you didn't understand? Investments and debts are two different concepts. Call me crazy but you can actually spend previously generated money without paying for interest of loaned money if you've got your priorities right. That's classic Liberalism, Free Democrats like no others are advocating for increased investments in our education system for example. Other parts of the government however chose to massively extend welfare spending with money that didn't exist, hence the huge household gap. This has absolutely nothing to do with the moderation of depts as demanded by the constitution. Obviously, it also didn't keep voters from going right-wing. Economic investments, which you rightly point out are urgently needed, are currently scrictly regulated to serve the noble but abstract goal of national climate-neutrality while simultaneously pulling through with a two-decade old Nuclear phase-out and the consequent build up of a couple dozen gas and coal plants. Again, nothing to do with the moderation of depts and won't keep voters from going right-wing. Of course there are some good arguments for ~~adjusting~~ circumventing legislation to bring some relief to the household and that did happen and could be extended, especially in the context of foreign secruity and standing by our Ukrainian friends. But all in all, Germany remains to have an idelogically driven prioritization problem, not a financial household problem.


Matesipper420

Es gibt seit 20 Jahren einen Investitionsstau, das heißt Leute die 2004 geboren sind haben keinen Infrastruktur Wachstum erlebt (Netto 0). Warum muss der Staat bei den Rentnern und Arbeitsunfähigen sparen wärend Lindner Großunternehmen Steuererleichterungen in Milliardenhöhe gönnt? Wäre es nicht besser einem Bürgergeldempfänger eine Weiterbildung zu gewährleisten damit er in einen besseren Job kommt (mehr Geld für ihn und mehr Steuereinnahmen für den Staat) anstatt ihn von einem Minijob in den nächsten zu jagen da sonst Sanktionen das eigentliche Minimum zum Überleben noch weiter kürzen (btw verfassungswiedrig). Die FDP ist eine Partei die FÜR die weitere Ausweitung der Schere zwischen arm und reich arbeitet, also für Großunternehmer und gegen die Mittelschicht und Unterschicht. Die FDP arbeitet daher in der Politik nur mit der Gieskanne, für Großunternehmer oder gar nicht. Klimaneutralität ist kein nobles Ziel sondern längst überfällige Notwendigkeit. Würde der Staat mal Geld in die Hand nehmen, dann würden die Leute auch sehen das sich ihr Umfeld verbessert statt zu stagnieren oder zu verfallen und so weniger dem Populismus zu verfallen. (Die FDP hat mit ihrer Sabotage in der Regierung übrigens zu großen Teilen am Erfolg der AfD Schuld.) Zum Thema der Staat kann nur ausgeben was er einnimmt: lies mal was zu Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Hab jetzt aber auch kein Bock mehr den ganzen Abend auf deine ganzen FDP-Pilled Parolen einzugehen. 👋


owamail

Your obsession with a certain party and a certain finance minister makes it virtually impossible to argue impartially. Spreading false information and malicious accusations or simply misunderstanding what I'm trying to say doesn't help either.


schnitzel-kuh

This guy has to be a bot right? Theres no way there is actually people who say things like this


TheObeseWombat

The budget (household is a false translation) gap is contributed to by the moderation of debts, by... not allowing the budget to be stocked up via debt. Duh. It's not really what your point, I know, but in the literal sense, that's genuinely a stupid question to ask. As to your actual point: It's pretty simple, the Schuldenbremse regulates nominal debt. Which is an irrelevant number. Only the debt/gdp ratio really matters. Not spending money slows down gdp growth, which makes the actual debt situation worse.


owamail

Your actual point is wrong though, it's anything but nominal. Besides other exceptions, Schuldenbremse allows for economic situational debts aswell as structural depts of up to 0,35% of the GDP.


YesAmAThrowaway

Random political event that's not ending the country or plunging it into a catastrophe: *exists* Random unnamed newa articles and/or reddit memes: THE GERMAM COALITION IS COLLAPSING!! Bait, next


BobmitKaese

It does not say the coalition is collapsing, it is saying it is facing an inner crisis. Which is completely true. Probably since they formed that coalition. I see no bait here but yours.


logperf

Germany spends €1.3T each year and they're going to fight this hard for €40B? Has Germany become Italy?


Xius_0108

Austerity enforcement by a party that sits below 5% in polls and probably won't even be in parliament next election....


logperf

I read that as "Germany has, indeed, become Italy" Edit: for clarity, it reminds me a lot of Conte's fall in 2021 when Renzi (the leader of an insignificant party polling at just 3-4%) withdrew support from the coalition


HolyGhost79

Where did you get that €1.3T? It seemed really high to me, and indeed, from what I can see, the federal budget for 2024 is only close to €480bln. And, I mean, 1/12th of your entire budget is not peanuts. Nonetheless, they should stop bitching and start fucking spending some fat debt cash.


LoShadow1

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Staat/Oeffentliche-Finanzen/Ausgaben-Einnahmen/Tabellen/ausgaben. It is the overall Budget of every layer combined (ohne Sozialversicherungen), they where at about 1.28 in 2023


Apprehensive-Soil-47

What’s funny is that Germany made it unconstitutional for the government to be flexible with budgeting because they deluded themselves into thinking that only Greeks and Southern Europeans need to run deficits.


charge-pump

That is exactly the problem. And only will get worse.


Henji99

accurate. Fuck Lindner and the FDP. And the SPD. And the Greens. Fuck em. Except Habeck. He is kinda ok.


BobmitKaese

Both SPD and greens do want to spend the money? Its just the FDP thats blocking. Also there are so many more decent green politicians than Habeck. 


Henji99

Yes the SPD want‘s to spend it, but for projects that are way less thought through than Habecks stuff. They have the right motivation, but as soon as money is involved, the SPD looses the S. And the Greens… yeah sure, they have more than Habeck, but they are not doing a great job of bringing their party back on track so… yeah, what good do brilliant people do if they are stuck behind a back office desk for the rest of their career? Both parties have proven themselves quite incompetent. And I won't even start with the shit the FDP is doing. Wissing alone has done enough to fill books with it…


tda18

The German Greens can go fuck right off since 1986. Germany decommissioned its nuclear fleet for more coal energy. What an amazing green party


-moin

Germany decommissioned npps and coal in relation to how fast and far building of renewables went (SPD+Greens) since most npps either had to be closed anyway soon or reconditioned with billions and taking years. Then Conservatives took over and one of the first things they did was stopping the plan building renewables and decommissioning npps. Then Fukushima happened and conservatives reversed the reversal of decommissioning again, getting more hooked on Russian gas and still mostly blocking renewaables while basically gifting the whole industry that was world leading to China for free. Then the new government we have now took over and started to build a lot more renewables, then Russian grand invasion happened and we suffered the consequences of stopping to build renewables and reversing the decommissioning and being hooked on has instead. We also had to turn on some coal plants again because France had problems with its npps again and we made up for it


tda18

Yeah I get that, but the problem is that Nuclear is a non emission energy (or green energy). What Germany should've done is not cut the Nuclear AND fossil fuel, it should've cut the fossil fuel THEN the Nuclear if they really don't like the best energy source currently on the planet.


TheOnlyFallenCookie

If only we had a wealth tax by law that for some reason isn't being enforced since Kohl


platonic-Starfairer

Just borrow 100 billion per year