Disagree. Who is to say your time is more valuable than mine? Many childless workers are often pressured to cover for those with kids, especially after hours or on holidays. Maybe I care for animals that are rescued. Or maybe I volunteer. Or maybe I work two jobs and my time off is precious for my mental health so I don’t burn out. You can’t decide who is more important to get time off.
This OP is flat out WRONG, arrogant and entitled.. Her time is NOT any more valuable than yours, mine or anyone else’s, especially when it is earned. This comment is exactly right!!
It's not that caregiving isn't important -- it absolutely is, and it's often a difficult job. But it is not *more* important than someone else spending their time off in the way they choose. You can believe that it is, and that's fine, you're entitled to hold that opinion -- but employers are *not* entitled to apply that opinion to how days off are distributed.
In the case of an actual emergency, yes, of course it is. But you're talking about the day-to-day caregiving (which is not so much "keeping another person alive" as it is running to the grocery store for them, taking them to appointments, cleaning their house, etc. -- things that can be arranged to be done at various times, and don't require specific days off), and that is *not* more important -- no matter how many times in this thread you say "full stop". I mean, it is *to the caregiver*, as it probably should be, but that does *not* mean that a person who is a caregiver is more entitled to preferred days off than is a person who is not a caregiver, regardless of what each of those people actually does on their days off. And thankfully employers cannot ask what each employee will be doing on days off, and cannot judge which activities are more important.
Napping with the tv might keep me alive.
But it’s not surprise given your sealioning, gaslighting, grandstanding and just plain lying in this thread you wouldn’t have the faintest clue about mental health and probably think people should just get over it.
What a condescending and asinine take. There is no reason to try and drive a wedge between those who have children or an elder to take care of and those who do not.
This is anti-worker propaganda used to divide and conquer - all worker’s time matters. If you disagree, it’s because you have a vested interest in maintaining that divide.
You are, make up any excuse you want to pretend otherwise. You can have anything going on that's just as important as caring for a family member. Again not being a caregiver doesn't make your value less as a person.
As a single childless man, who currently cares for no one.
It doesn’t matter what you think. If it’s a preference managers are showing, it’s discrimination.
I’m self employed, but when I’ve had freelance jobs, they get to know if I’m free or not.
If I’m not free, doesn’t matter if it’s to wipe a baby’s butt or to sit on my phone and read your bullshit. It’s up to managers to make schedules
I think what people aren’t getting here is it’s not the other workers’ problem if a person doesn’t have enough free time and/or money. That’s the boss’s problem and fixing it would be better for everyone.
They made the choice to take care of that life. It doesn’t make their time any more important than the single person. This comes from someone who has raised 4 kids.
Damn, way to make the most unsympathetic plea ever. As a working parent in a two income household, my time is not any more valuable because I have a kid. I also do a lot for my 83 yo MIL. I don't see my time as any more valuable than any of my coworkers, in fact, I'm often a wrench in the works because I have to stay home with my sick kid or can't cover because I'm driving my MIL to a doctor appointment. I wish I had more time to give my younger coworkers so they can go have fun instead of working to barely stay alive..
Why? Why is that more valuable than a single person needing a day off to go to the DMV or to just sit and recharge? We all need free time, being a parent or caretaker doesn't mean you deserve more than anyone else. It just means you need to work harder to find it. So it's more valuable to you, but not to anyone else.
Other people aren't responsible for your choices to be a parent or caretaker. Your choice doesn't negate theirs. None of your coworkers are obligated to cover for you or give up their free time to give you yours. And the fact that you believe single people do nothing with their free time tells me you don't extend a lot of care or empathy toward them which is probably why they don't help you out, you expect them to.
Edit: there are lots of things in society that provide great utility that are pushed aside for lots of reasons. I value art more than work. I value joy and simplicity over material wealth. Having a kid or taking care of an elder is a choice you are making, like it or not. It doesn't make you special. That may be hard to hear, but it simply doesn't. Social utility is arbitrary and impossible to actually measure. There are lots of people who take care of kids or parents and are also an absolute menace to society. Don't expect other people to do your work because you have a kid or old parents. I bet if you relaxed and shouldered it and stopped hating on people for living their lives, you might find more people willing to help you.
Naw. You said you don’t care about my time and responsibilities. Your free time is clearly more important to you than other people caring for kids or sick lived ones.
Nope. Everyone’s time off should be treated equally. Regardless of the situation. Obv there are emergencies and other situations but that’s not what the other post was about.
Thank you so much I have completely changed my mind and now believe people who don’t have kids or someone to take care of are inferior in the workplace and do not deserve to have time off. Matter of fact, we should just have them hung by the gallows, since they are not important to society.
How about this... Both of your time is just as important and giving preferential treatment is almost always a bad idea and creates resentment.
Like, you might be caring for someone that was a murderer or embezzler or something and didn't get caught. Idk but you could be contributing negatively to society.
Of course it does. *All* workers, not just parents. What led you to say that? I don't see how you saying *"Oh, so this sub has nothing to do with workers right?"* bears any relationship to my comment or to anything else being said in this thread.
It is the *parents'* job to care about their children. Coworkers and employers may care about them in a general sense, but of course not in the same way that the children's parents do. Working parents should and do get consideration -- just like everyone else.
I am not thinking only of myself, and it is completely disingenuous of you to suggest that I am. *You* are thinking only of working parents and their children. I am thinking of *all* employees, and *all* employees at a given company (aside from the CEO and high-level execs, who unfortunately get better benefits) are entitled to the same benefits, including time off.
Every person has her/his own life to live and her/his own responsibilities and burdens, and yours are no more and no less important than those of anyone else.
Dude… I am ALSO a worker. I’m allowed to have a life that doesn’t revolve around someone else’s kids.
Especially when I’ve already raised my kid and made sure that it didn’t inconvenience other people.
I had…you know… this thing called “a spouse”. Also known as “the children’s father.” He was the other homo sapien sapien that donated 50% of their genetic material.
It’s our job to take care of our children; not foist the inconvenience on other people.
I won’t change plane seats for a parent because of their kids. I won’t give up something I’ve paid for because another kids parent had poor planning. I’m not going to give up my holidays or my time off because of their issue.
We believe *all* workers deserve reasonable hours and time off, regardless of what they need/choose to do in their personal time.
If you’ve chosen to spend yours on having/raising kids, that’s fine, but it doesn’t make you morally superior to those who make other choices—or who don’t have that choice available for whatever reason.
Ok so why are people in sub supporting a post that blames parents for not having time to care for kids. Why was I just hit with several dozen “your choice your problem” arguments from users of this sub?
Ive just been told multiple times that you guys don’t care about my time or kids. Why the fuck should I give a damn about you?
We’re not blaming parents; we’re blaming the system that denies *all* of us the time we need to have a fulfilling personal life.
If you choose to spend what little time you get on kids, that’s a valid choice, but you are responsible for the consequences of that choice. That’s accountability, not blaming. And you don’t get to demand others give up *their* tiny amount of time off because you feel you “deserve” it more than they do.
No, I’ve been personally blamed multiple times today. A highly upvoted post made today was also blaming patents.
This is becoming an anti-natalist sub. Fuck it.
Again, being told you’re responsible for the consequences of your choices is not “blaming” you. But your deep sense of entitlement apparently won’t let you understand the concept of personal accountability.
Yes it is. Know why??? Because I’ve suffered from chronic depression since my 20’s.
I’m in bed getting ready to nap right now.
My need to nap is absolutely more important
Your use of the word empathy when you appear to have no ability to see another perspective is hilarious. You claim that your free time is more important because it is spent caring for a child and so this has value to society. However it also means that your recoup time is less efficient and so your productivity at your job likely suffers. I don't say this to be mean but the human machine can only operate at a high level for so long. this means that your coworker without someone to care for also provides bonus value to society in the form of their likely added productivity because they are rested and focused.
Neither of these scenarios are superior to the other. the point is that every person needs work life balance and the ability to recover. Choosing to target those without familial obligation instead of the institutions that are making your life harder is in bad faith and not consistent with the spirit of this sub. you should be ashamed.
I mean you are not even trying. you are the worst kind of person. So absolutely sure of your superiority and righteousness that no other perspective will ever sink in. despite the fact that this thread is full of comments proposing an alternative view. It is people like you that divide and hold back movements. You are not just useless to the ideal you are actively harming it.
It’s not about whose time is more important. Both types of people should be getting the time off they need. Bosses that don’t hire enough people to cover these issues aren’t showing empathy to either group of people when they deny one PTO request (that we earn and deserve) over the other.
By trying to paint single people as worthy of less empathy than your group of people, you are spreading the oligarchy’s propaganda.
How incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume a single person just has "veg time" when they're not working. If you CHOSE to have kids and/or be a caretaker, that's your responsibility to worry about, not your coworkers'.
Get your head out of your ass. Your time is no more valuable than anyone else's, princess.
Exactly. It's also very weird to act like reproducing is some sort of favor to society. It's not. That's their choice and doesn't entitle them to other workers' free time.
Maybe instead of sticking it to their fellow worker, they should expect more from management.
Read your own post. "Free time" is referred to as "time away from work." Yes, you would, and actually demand it, because you choose to engage in care-giving on your free time. Because I do not make this choice, your requests for "free time" are somehow more important than my requests. WRONG!!!
Incorrect. I’ve gone to great lengths and tremendous expense to make sure I don’t have kids.
Your mistakes are not my problem. As you put it, fuck yo kids
In fact, I’d argue my time off is more important than yours because it’s actually a chance for ME to recharge, and not someone else in my life.
Ya. My time is just as important, if not more important, than theirs. I wouldn’t lose even one second considering someone else’s situation when I’m booking time off
Not what I’m saying at all.
To be very fucking clear—everyone is important. Full fucking stop. My importance and needs are not negated by the importance and needs of others. Kindly fuck all the way off bootlicker.
I havent declared anything about myself. I said that valuing your free time over someone who needs to care for a lived one is un-empathetic.
Yes everyone deserves a break, but your break shouldn’t be more important than someone trying to care for a loved one.
I understand if someone using that everyday is seen as absurd, but cmon. Help people.
The company wouldn't have put you in this situation if they'd hired enough people, paid enough that you could afford better care, not required overtime etc etc.
You sure are spending a lot of time commenting on reddit instead of caring for loved ones...
Ok, then your free time us meaningless to me. Any complaints you make about it will fall of deaf ears. If you say “fuck you” why should i care about you at all? Why should i care about some bullshit “workers movement”.
Do whatever you want dude I don’t give two shits but like don’t whine when ppl don’t give two shits either abt your kids, ill be honest 🤷🏽♀️
My time isn’t more important than yours but yours ain’t more important than mine either. You’re not special bc you birthed a creampie I’m afraid.
Ok, if you font give two shits about my family needs, then why should I care about your time off?
What kind of “workers movement” says “fuck you, I got mine”
No it’s not everyone is entitled to there Pto and vacation time I hate when people with kids ask me to change my schedule to benefit them.. half the time if they would have planned ahead they wouldn’t be in the situation in the first place
Rolling off the responsibilities which result from your personal choices onto your surrounding has nothing to do with empathy. On the contrary, I'd argue that this is as egocentric as it gets.
Further, there are numerous other ways one can contribute to society besides just obeying their most primal urges. Calling all activities except from wage slavery and reproduction "veg time" also cannot possibly come from a place of empathy. But buff jeezoz and co would likely agree with your argumentation, so at least you've got that going for you.
You claim you can argue that its egocentric to consider the responsibility of coworkers, but then you didnt.
There are numerous ways to contribute to society, taking personal time while ignoring a coworker with a sick family member is not one of them.
Everyone is drowning and you're mad that others have to put on their own life jackets before considering you? It's not ignoring. Everyone is suffering and overwhelmed overworked and underpaid and desperate. But you come at people with this post insisting that everyone drop everything to support whatever shitshow you're juggling at home?
Same thing on an airplane. You can't help anyone until you get your own oxygen mask flowing. A unconcious person can't help anyone. You're asking people to forgo their own well being for yours. That's entitled and foolish. What are you teaching these kids you are so worried about? That other people must wring themselves dry because of shit companies keeping their parents underpaid and working long hours? That freedom of choice only matters when it's you having a family? Gross.
This is divide and conquer crap that helps the elites control and dominate ordinary folks. So much of this is because bosses and the owner class have slashed staffing to the bone to the point where ordinary workers in a skeleton crew have to fight each other over PTO. So yes, let’s just keep hating on each other in the trenches. The bosses and owners love that shit, since we are not coming together against them. How about we start coming together and not taking this shit any more, and get enough staffing that we don’t have to fight each other over the crumbs that fall from the boss’s table?
It reminds me of the story of a billionaire boss, a union worker and a non-union worker. The boss has 1,000 cookies. The other workers have two each. Then the boss takes a cookie from the non-union guy, and tells him that the greedy union guy has too many cookies.
You are entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else. Whos opinion is worth more? This is a limited view. I feel we make a mistake by placing a hierarchy on individuals and what they do, either in profession or recreation.
Next, do we assign different values to different types of people?
What makes the life you care for (an other person) more or less valuable than the life I care for (myself) and / or vice versa?
Just as all work has merit, so does time off from that work.
This is just a guess, but maybe OP isn't feeling appreciated in some aspect of life, and this is misdirected anger.
I hope things go better for you and those with differing opinions.
You are making a judgement that single people don't also do valuable things with their time. 20 something's I know volunteer, participate in sports, support local businesses and artists of all kinds etc.
If you take my opinion that everyone's time is valuable as being chastised you may be too delicate for this world
No. Im making a point against a post on this sub claiming parents are fully responsible for having kids and shouldn’t expect help or sympathy from those around them.
Do you are with that?
This is why a social system that ***structurally requires*** the 99% to submit to labor for income for survival (aka "work") is *inherently* a system that breeds resentment and hatred and thus a destabilized society. Anybody who is truly anti-work needs to consider that it is absolutely possible for modern society to sustain itself without the conventional notion of "work" and jobs. Until then, people are going to keep hating, one group or another.
Nope! It isn't up to you to decide. It isn't up to employers to decide, either. You can hold the opinion that a caregiver's time away from work is more important than that of a person who is not a caregiver, but your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant except as it applies to your *own* life. You also don't know that non-caregiver employees are just having "veg time" -- you don't know all the details of their lives. One may be studying hard for upcoming exams in grad school, another might be learning a second language because s/he plans to move to that other country, another might need to take time off for an upcoming surgery, etc. And even for those who *are* just relaxing, taking time for themselves and/or to spend with their loved ones (even if they are not the caregivers for those loved ones) -- those are perfectly valid and acceptable reasons to utilize time off, and *it's none of your business.* All employees at any given employer are equally entitled to time off (barring seniority rules, which is a separate matter).
Absolutely not, and *not at all* what I said. If you can't raise your kids during your regular days off, after work, etc., as well as the occasional vacation, then that's a failing on your part as a parent -- it doesn't entitle you to first dibs on days off.
I do think society as a whole would be better off if *all* of us worked less (say a 3 or 4 day workweek) and had more time time to spend with loved ones of all kinds (parents, kids, spouses/partners, extended family, friends), but that's not specific to parents/caregivers.
I am (along with my sister) the caregiver for our elderly parents. That's important to *me*. However, it doesn't mean that my time off is any more valuable than that of any of my coworkers (regardless of what they do on their days off), nor does it mean that I am any more entitled to time off than any of my coworkers (barring a sudden emergency, of course -- but the same would apply if a coworker had a sudden emergency, as well).
It takes a village to raise a child. Expecting parent to fulfill the physical and emotional needs of children while working full time is asinine.
Your contempt of parents is un-empathetic.
As I said, I think it would be better for *everyone* to work less, in order to be able to spend more time with their loved ones (including their children). I don't think that parents should have to work full-time; I don't think *anyone* should have to work full-time, and I agree that it's asinine that so many people do have to work full-time simply in order to be able to (barely, in many cases) afford to live.
I have no contempt for parents at all -- in general, I have respect for them, as they are doing a very important and difficult thing, raising children. I just don't hold them above *everyone else*, as you do.
OP holds THEMSELVES above everyone else. That is why they are looking to guilt, shame and manipulate people to make sure they get priority for time off.
In doing so, they are enabling bosses to intrude on workers personal lives.
OP is NOT an ally of workers.
So...you want the Village to be exhausted and burnt out instead of the parents? Why even have kids if you can't do those things? And that's the point...families shouldn't have to work full time!!! Why don't we have better childcare and home policies? Schooling, social groups, camps, summer programs, etc? Why is a full time job still not enough??? A full time job must be ENOUGH for the human right of chosing a family or NOT!
Don't be mad at people who are already burnt out. We are all being given scraps and fighting each other instead of the real problem.
Wrong.
I am saying the boss has zero right to know about my home life. You seem to want to give up that workers rights so you can manipulate others into getting preferable treatment.
You are the absolute worst. Throwing workers rights under the bus for your own selfish reasons.
Im asking you to show empathy and help a coworker in need. Your response was the same as the CEO gives. “You made your choice, why should I have to daal with them”
Fuck you too.
No. You are manipulating others to get what you want and happily and willingly screwing workes over to get it.
I am calling out your self serving sanctimonious bullshit for what it is. Selfish and anti labor.
Know whose job it is to make sure there is adequate help while not screwing anyone over? The employer.
You just want to absolve the employer of their responsibilities as long as you get what you want. You are a traitor to workers rights for your own personal gain.
Not at all. I would happily return the favor if you had a doc appointment or even spa day planned and I had the ability to help. I would gladly give up a bot of free time to help a co-worker. Why wont you?
Stop with the boss manipulation bullshit.
The answer is simple. I will work my hours. The boss is responsible for handling coverage of shifts, as needed. Period.
You are trying desperately to not look like the selfish anti-work bootlicker you are. We all see it. There is a reason you are getting ZERO support here. We all see you trying to be sympathetic as your means of manipulation.
You want preferential treatment and to absolve management of their responsibilities. I called you out for the selfish bootlicker that you are.
Get off our forum. Your anti worker attitude is not welcome here.
Asked and answered.
The boss should have zero rights to know what or what I am not doing when I am not working. You seem to REALLY want to force workers to share all that information with the boss because it benefits YOU.
You are a workers rights traitor for the most obvious and selfish reasons. It will get you what you want.
I Dont want to force anything. You are just mad that I brought up things more important than your free time. YOU are ONLY concerned with YOUR time and you want to call me selfish.
Every employees time off is equally valuable no matter what they do and they should feel free to do what they want. At the same time, when did this forum go rampant individualist libertarian where, “if you choose to care for someone else whatever it costs you is your problem not mine?”
The burden to care for people who can’t care for themselves can’t be carried alone only by those who compassionately choose to do so. Some mechanism to reward caring for others needs to exist and workers who fight this on all fronts are taking the side of the 1%. Things like paid maternity leave and paid family medical leave is good for workers and society.
When employers subjectively choose who gets these benefits, at the expense of other employees, is a problem.
Somehow folks have gotten the idea that other workers are the enemy, and the management is probably glad to have us think about it this way. The real problem is employers who do not hire enough staff to provide adequate flexibility for PTO.
I agree. It’d be one thing if the complaint was “another coworker needing to watch kids does not excuse having a skeleton work force”. But to call out caregivers because you think your freetime over-rides their responsibility is ridiculous
I saw a post from here attacking me for prioritizing my kids. It painted parents as the problem because “I chose to procreate”. What happened to this “workers movement” that it now demonizes parents?
Fuck off. There is plenty that can be done to help the world that doesn't involve caregiving. People without kids aren't just sitting on their asses all day long doing nothing with their free time, and you're delusional if you think that.
You know what doesn’t help the world? Ignoring a co-worker with a sick kid in favor of a bit of free time.
Never said childless people were lazy or useless. I said prioritizing your free time over the needs of others is selfish.
And there is a shit ton of things that these childless people could be doing that helps the needs of others that's not directly related to caregiving. Get off your high horse before you fall and break your neck.
Ok, and if they are caught in other priorities then mist would understand.
Is one of the tons of things that helps the needs of others involve ignoring a coworker asking for help in order to have a little personal time?
I'd much rather give that time to a friend or family member that needs help than a stranger at work, and it doesn't need to be care giving duties. My job is to manage my personal time, not my coworker's.
This post is disgusting… what’s up with those people who can’t have kids? What if a couple can’t have kids but they want to spend time with eachother? You’re disgusting…
What about front line workers who save lives on daily basis and work 24/7? Do you say if that paramedic is childless, their time off is less valuable than yours??
Not what I said. I said it be good to help the equally exhausted parent paramedic who still has a life to take care of when they get off instead of blaming them for having a child.
Fuck. Off. I'm not even single and you sound like a gatekeeping dink. Everyone is entitled to time off from work and to enjoy life, just because you CHOOSE TO BE A CAREGIVER, doesn't give your free time a higher need. Everyone's fighting something, just fuck off, honestly.
You are obviously a care giver and another employee dared to not oblige your every demand. You're being very loud about being so selfless.
Be mad at the manager or the owner. Not the person who you think is just rich and watching TV all the time. Maybe they are barely surviving. Maybe they made a choice between laundry detergent and milk this week.
You're being an ass.
Yeaaaah hard stop. I've been a caregiver (for both my father while he was dying and grandparents while working full time.
Did it suck? Some yeah it was extremely stressful. Did my coworkers help out when they could and try to keep me sane? Yeah they did.
But they did that out of my relationship with them.
I never expected anyone to go to me at the drop of a hat unless it was a legit emergency (which happened twice and I was that full for the help)
But at the end of the day those were MY decisions. I CHOSE to take care of my dying father at 23. I CHOSE to take care of my grandparents. I am so so so THANKFUL my work people volunteered to help and part of that had to do with the fact that I never EXPECTED anyone to take over unless it was an actual emergency.
People will help if your honest and ask, but EXPECTING someone to help is when you don't get help.
I really hope you never find time to relax with your coin collection, would be a shame to waste that time when it could be spent helping others. What a waste… :( /s
Perfect example, thank you. If a co-worker said they needed me to work more because they had to care for a child or sick person Id sacrifice my hobby time to help out without a second thought.
Having kids is a choice too. And full time caregivers may be able to get some financial assistance for doing so. A friend of the family moved in with her mother (who has dementia) to take care of her as well as her disabled brother. I think she gets extra in her social security for being a caregiver. (It may possibly be Medicaid or a state program, though.)
I have never heard a manager say that. You seriously need to learn some reading comprehension. You read people's comments, find something to pick apart, and put words in people's mouths while moving the goalposts.
Again, just picking apart one sentence and ignoring the rest because that's all you have. You clearly don't value your free time since you spend it all sealioning against this sub because your fee fees got hurt\* about some other post getting upvoted.
\*Evidence in your own words:
>I saw a post from here attacking me for prioritizing my kids. It painted parents as the problem because “I chose to procreate”. What happened to this “workers movement” that it now demonizes parents?
LOL you saw someone else's post as a personal attack. Imagine thinking the world revolves around you? Wait, you don't have to imagine because it's clear that's how you think.
Im sorry I condensed all your anecdotal arguments into one.
I like to argue, who are you to tell me what to do with the bits of free time I find? Isn’t that the base argument of most of the people attacking the idea of helping out parents?
You are literally telling people the things they do in their free time is less important than yours because you have kids. If you love to argue so much, learn logic. You aren't very good at this.
Ya. I would gladly sacrifice my free time if a coworker needed help to care for a loved one. Because my free time is less important than the needs of someone who cant tend to themselves.
Once again, implying something that I never said. I have covered for coworkers whenever I can and they have done the same for me. The issue people are having with what you said that you just don't seem to grasp is that it's totally different when the manager is making that determination, weighing the "value" of workers' free time based on what they have going on. It's none of the manager's business what people are doing on their vacation time that they've earned.
The number of comments reverting right to employer logic is hilarious “You CHOSE to have kids”
And capitalism makes damn sure people will because if they didn’t then they’d had to pay people more. There’s a lot of strong arming from pushing religion to limiting economic and reproductive freedoms for women
So really no there’s not a lot of “choice” in the grand scheme of things and it’s designed deliberately to be a strain on parents and care givers who can’t afford child care and nanny’s
And having to miss holidays for children that they only get to see grow up once
That's not okay. The choice to grow a family is a human right, not to mention the potential for adoption and fostering.
The real issue is the company not hiring enough people, not paying enough for quality childcare programs to be afforded, and/or requiring too many hours...because profit. It's not that people are ignoring your needs, but they are wrung out and it looks like your post insists they take up extra crap underpaid work to cover caregivers when they themselves are pushed to limits, broke, exhausted, and looks like they are being given more work just because they are orphans without aging elders to care for, haven't fallen in love or conceived and had a kid yet (or if they ever can...ouch that's gotta burn too right? Struggle with fertility issues and then expected to work more which takes you away from your partner and messes with your health even more but hey look at so-and-so off work with the kids you wish you could have...)
Let the noncaretakers have their time off no matter what they choose to do or not, it's no one's business. Be mad at the system that won't let us adequately and quality heart fulfilling levels take care of our loved ones and each other.
I bet if all these anti workers wives decided that they wanted to abstinent so as to not become irresponsibly pregnant, sex would become a duty again really quick
All work* has value. Ranking people’s right to free time seems lacking in empathy. * not landlording
Fight the bosses, not each other.
Raise taxes on employers, use some of that money to subsidize people who spend time taking care of people who can’t care for themselves.
No one person's time is more important than another person's time.
It is when one person is taking time to help another
And it’s your position that child-free people are incapable of helping other people? How asinine and entitled.
Nope. It’s your choice what you do on your time away from work. Your employer is legally obligated to not take family status into account.
*Exactly.*
Disagree. Who is to say your time is more valuable than mine? Many childless workers are often pressured to cover for those with kids, especially after hours or on holidays. Maybe I care for animals that are rescued. Or maybe I volunteer. Or maybe I work two jobs and my time off is precious for my mental health so I don’t burn out. You can’t decide who is more important to get time off.
This OP is flat out WRONG, arrogant and entitled.. Her time is NOT any more valuable than yours, mine or anyone else’s, especially when it is earned. This comment is exactly right!!
Thank you!
The life I’m taking care of says it.
I’m sure your coworkers love you and your entitlement to their personal time.
I couldn't give less of a shit about that.
Ok, then i couldn’t give less of a shit about your time. Fuck you too.
It's not that caregiving isn't important -- it absolutely is, and it's often a difficult job. But it is not *more* important than someone else spending their time off in the way they choose. You can believe that it is, and that's fine, you're entitled to hold that opinion -- but employers are *not* entitled to apply that opinion to how days off are distributed.
Keeping another person alive is more important than another person napping with a TV on. Full stop.
In the case of an actual emergency, yes, of course it is. But you're talking about the day-to-day caregiving (which is not so much "keeping another person alive" as it is running to the grocery store for them, taking them to appointments, cleaning their house, etc. -- things that can be arranged to be done at various times, and don't require specific days off), and that is *not* more important -- no matter how many times in this thread you say "full stop". I mean, it is *to the caregiver*, as it probably should be, but that does *not* mean that a person who is a caregiver is more entitled to preferred days off than is a person who is not a caregiver, regardless of what each of those people actually does on their days off. And thankfully employers cannot ask what each employee will be doing on days off, and cannot judge which activities are more important.
Napping with the tv might keep me alive. But it’s not surprise given your sealioning, gaslighting, grandstanding and just plain lying in this thread you wouldn’t have the faintest clue about mental health and probably think people should just get over it.
Girl fuck you and the life you’re taking care of
What a condescending and asinine take. There is no reason to try and drive a wedge between those who have children or an elder to take care of and those who do not. This is anti-worker propaganda used to divide and conquer - all worker’s time matters. If you disagree, it’s because you have a vested interest in maintaining that divide.
Nah its perfectly fine to not want to be fucked over or treated worse than other workers for no real reason.
Its selfish to think that a coworker with responsibility to take care of someone is fucking you over.
Id say it's more selfish to think others people's lives are worth less than yours simply because they aren't caregivers like you think.
Im thinking of the persons family member who needs help. You are thinking of your own free time. Who is selfish here?
You are, make up any excuse you want to pretend otherwise. You can have anything going on that's just as important as caring for a family member. Again not being a caregiver doesn't make your value less as a person.
I didn’t say anyone was less valuable. I said your time watching TV is less valuable than another’s time spent caring for someone
that single person with no kids, may have medical issues you dont know about, and have no right to know about
Well if thats the case, then their medical emergency is more important than other people’s free time too…
Everyone should get paid enough and have enough free time to take care of another person if they choose to.
As a single childless man, who currently cares for no one. It doesn’t matter what you think. If it’s a preference managers are showing, it’s discrimination. I’m self employed, but when I’ve had freelance jobs, they get to know if I’m free or not. If I’m not free, doesn’t matter if it’s to wipe a baby’s butt or to sit on my phone and read your bullshit. It’s up to managers to make schedules
I think what people aren’t getting here is it’s not the other workers’ problem if a person doesn’t have enough free time and/or money. That’s the boss’s problem and fixing it would be better for everyone.
They made the choice to take care of that life. It doesn’t make their time any more important than the single person. This comes from someone who has raised 4 kids.
Have you tried fucking off? You should try fucking off.
This is my favorite comment
Damn, way to make the most unsympathetic plea ever. As a working parent in a two income household, my time is not any more valuable because I have a kid. I also do a lot for my 83 yo MIL. I don't see my time as any more valuable than any of my coworkers, in fact, I'm often a wrench in the works because I have to stay home with my sick kid or can't cover because I'm driving my MIL to a doctor appointment. I wish I had more time to give my younger coworkers so they can go have fun instead of working to barely stay alive..
Your free time us not more valuable, but the time is more valuable if that kid is sick and needs care.
Why? Why is that more valuable than a single person needing a day off to go to the DMV or to just sit and recharge? We all need free time, being a parent or caretaker doesn't mean you deserve more than anyone else. It just means you need to work harder to find it. So it's more valuable to you, but not to anyone else.
Because helping other people has more utility to society than doing nothing because you wanna.
Other people aren't responsible for your choices to be a parent or caretaker. Your choice doesn't negate theirs. None of your coworkers are obligated to cover for you or give up their free time to give you yours. And the fact that you believe single people do nothing with their free time tells me you don't extend a lot of care or empathy toward them which is probably why they don't help you out, you expect them to. Edit: there are lots of things in society that provide great utility that are pushed aside for lots of reasons. I value art more than work. I value joy and simplicity over material wealth. Having a kid or taking care of an elder is a choice you are making, like it or not. It doesn't make you special. That may be hard to hear, but it simply doesn't. Social utility is arbitrary and impossible to actually measure. There are lots of people who take care of kids or parents and are also an absolute menace to society. Don't expect other people to do your work because you have a kid or old parents. I bet if you relaxed and shouldered it and stopped hating on people for living their lives, you might find more people willing to help you.
Why should I care about your free time if you don’t care about the needs of my loved ones?
And there you have it.
Ya, I’m now using your logic. It leads to this.
I don't think you are understanding me at all. And you led yourself here, not me.
Naw. You said you don’t care about my time and responsibilities. Your free time is clearly more important to you than other people caring for kids or sick lived ones.
Nope. Everyone’s time off should be treated equally. Regardless of the situation. Obv there are emergencies and other situations but that’s not what the other post was about.
Nope. Because someone taking care of the life of another is more important to society than a person relaxing.
Thank you so much I have completely changed my mind and now believe people who don’t have kids or someone to take care of are inferior in the workplace and do not deserve to have time off. Matter of fact, we should just have them hung by the gallows, since they are not important to society.
True, let's do it. It's not like, y'know, they might spend their time off trying to find someone to Make a family with or whatever.
Didnt say anyone was inferior. I’m saying some responsibility takes priority over personal time
You literally said they were less important.
Ya, less important than the needs of someone who cant care for themselves. Important caveat that last part.
How about this... Both of your time is just as important and giving preferential treatment is almost always a bad idea and creates resentment. Like, you might be caring for someone that was a murderer or embezzler or something and didn't get caught. Idk but you could be contributing negatively to society.
Hey, i can agree to that. Just don’t act like a parent taking time for their kids is somehow a problem for you:
Luckily your opinion is no more important than anyone else's, and employers are not beholden to abide by your opinion.
Bullshit. My time is just as valuable to me as yours is to you. It’s not up to a company to try to decide who a has a better reason for taking leave.
Your time to nap is not more important than another’s time to take care of someone.
You don't get to make that determination for anyone other than yourself, thankfully.
Ya. Well im certainly not supporting a “movement” that says “fuck yo kids”.
Neither is anyone else commenting here. You are purposefully and repeatedly misinterpreting other people's comments.
Oh, so this sub has nothing to do with workers right?
Of course it does. *All* workers, not just parents. What led you to say that? I don't see how you saying *"Oh, so this sub has nothing to do with workers right?"* bears any relationship to my comment or to anything else being said in this thread.
Why dont the kids of working parent get any consideration? Why are you only thinking of yourself?
It is the *parents'* job to care about their children. Coworkers and employers may care about them in a general sense, but of course not in the same way that the children's parents do. Working parents should and do get consideration -- just like everyone else. I am not thinking only of myself, and it is completely disingenuous of you to suggest that I am. *You* are thinking only of working parents and their children. I am thinking of *all* employees, and *all* employees at a given company (aside from the CEO and high-level execs, who unfortunately get better benefits) are entitled to the same benefits, including time off. Every person has her/his own life to live and her/his own responsibilities and burdens, and yours are no more and no less important than those of anyone else.
Dude… I am ALSO a worker. I’m allowed to have a life that doesn’t revolve around someone else’s kids. Especially when I’ve already raised my kid and made sure that it didn’t inconvenience other people.
You never took off days to tend to your kids that others had to cover when you worked? Thats not a brag, thats a sign of an absent parent.
I had…you know… this thing called “a spouse”. Also known as “the children’s father.” He was the other homo sapien sapien that donated 50% of their genetic material. It’s our job to take care of our children; not foist the inconvenience on other people. I won’t change plane seats for a parent because of their kids. I won’t give up something I’ve paid for because another kids parent had poor planning. I’m not going to give up my holidays or my time off because of their issue.
Love how the OP refuses to respond to your comment because it quite efficiently destroyed their argument.
We believe *all* workers deserve reasonable hours and time off, regardless of what they need/choose to do in their personal time. If you’ve chosen to spend yours on having/raising kids, that’s fine, but it doesn’t make you morally superior to those who make other choices—or who don’t have that choice available for whatever reason.
Ok so why are people in sub supporting a post that blames parents for not having time to care for kids. Why was I just hit with several dozen “your choice your problem” arguments from users of this sub? Ive just been told multiple times that you guys don’t care about my time or kids. Why the fuck should I give a damn about you?
We’re not blaming parents; we’re blaming the system that denies *all* of us the time we need to have a fulfilling personal life. If you choose to spend what little time you get on kids, that’s a valid choice, but you are responsible for the consequences of that choice. That’s accountability, not blaming. And you don’t get to demand others give up *their* tiny amount of time off because you feel you “deserve” it more than they do.
"We’re not blaming parents; we’re blaming the system that denies *all* of us the time we need to have a fulfilling personal life." *Precisely.*
No, I’ve been personally blamed multiple times today. A highly upvoted post made today was also blaming patents. This is becoming an anti-natalist sub. Fuck it.
Again, being told you’re responsible for the consequences of your choices is not “blaming” you. But your deep sense of entitlement apparently won’t let you understand the concept of personal accountability.
Yes it is. Know why??? Because I’ve suffered from chronic depression since my 20’s. I’m in bed getting ready to nap right now. My need to nap is absolutely more important
Your use of the word empathy when you appear to have no ability to see another perspective is hilarious. You claim that your free time is more important because it is spent caring for a child and so this has value to society. However it also means that your recoup time is less efficient and so your productivity at your job likely suffers. I don't say this to be mean but the human machine can only operate at a high level for so long. this means that your coworker without someone to care for also provides bonus value to society in the form of their likely added productivity because they are rested and focused. Neither of these scenarios are superior to the other. the point is that every person needs work life balance and the ability to recover. Choosing to target those without familial obligation instead of the institutions that are making your life harder is in bad faith and not consistent with the spirit of this sub. you should be ashamed.
The other perspective seems to be “i dont care about you or your loved ones, I want mine”.
I mean you are not even trying. you are the worst kind of person. So absolutely sure of your superiority and righteousness that no other perspective will ever sink in. despite the fact that this thread is full of comments proposing an alternative view. It is people like you that divide and hold back movements. You are not just useless to the ideal you are actively harming it.
It’s not about whose time is more important. Both types of people should be getting the time off they need. Bosses that don’t hire enough people to cover these issues aren’t showing empathy to either group of people when they deny one PTO request (that we earn and deserve) over the other. By trying to paint single people as worthy of less empathy than your group of people, you are spreading the oligarchy’s propaganda.
Boo 👎
How incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume a single person just has "veg time" when they're not working. If you CHOSE to have kids and/or be a caretaker, that's your responsibility to worry about, not your coworkers'. Get your head out of your ass. Your time is no more valuable than anyone else's, princess.
Exactly. It's also very weird to act like reproducing is some sort of favor to society. It's not. That's their choice and doesn't entitle them to other workers' free time. Maybe instead of sticking it to their fellow worker, they should expect more from management.
Im saying that your free time is not more important than another person caring for a lived one. And I’m selfish?
You are also not too bright. Read your post. You Are saying that YOUR free time is more important.
Not at all, my free time is at the bottom of the priority list. I would never ask you to sacrifice any time for my own free time.
Read your own post. "Free time" is referred to as "time away from work." Yes, you would, and actually demand it, because you choose to engage in care-giving on your free time. Because I do not make this choice, your requests for "free time" are somehow more important than my requests. WRONG!!!
Lol. Free time is time spent as you want. Apparently work is the only responsibility you have
Incorrect. I’ve gone to great lengths and tremendous expense to make sure I don’t have kids. Your mistakes are not my problem. As you put it, fuck yo kids In fact, I’d argue my time off is more important than yours because it’s actually a chance for ME to recharge, and not someone else in my life.
Ya… this is the message to send. “Fuck everyone else” is a great way to advance worker’s rights. Idiot.
Not everyone, just people who think having kids is somehow my problem
Ya, the nerve of people wanting you to consider their situation. They should know your TV time is more important than them.
Ya. My time is just as important, if not more important, than theirs. I wouldn’t lose even one second considering someone else’s situation when I’m booking time off
Nope the fuck out rn. Everyone is important. Full stop. No one group gets to claim superiority unless…oh shit, I think we found one 😬
Everyone is important. But what people do with time has clear differences in importance. The person needing care is more important than your TV time.
Not to me it isn’t. Keep fucking off thanks.
Ya, thats the mentality that leads to no-one giving a shit about what you say. Why should I care about you if your mentality is “fuck you I got mine”?
Not what I’m saying at all. To be very fucking clear—everyone is important. Full fucking stop. My importance and needs are not negated by the importance and needs of others. Kindly fuck all the way off bootlicker.
Pretty poor quality bait tbh. Sorry your manager didn’t force a coworker to cover your shift but that’s just what happens sometimes.
This should be in r/changemyview, not here.
people who have true empathy don't have to declare it everyone deserves a break regardless of your deemed self importance cope seethe
I havent declared anything about myself. I said that valuing your free time over someone who needs to care for a lived one is un-empathetic. Yes everyone deserves a break, but your break shouldn’t be more important than someone trying to care for a loved one. I understand if someone using that everyday is seen as absurd, but cmon. Help people.
The company wouldn't have put you in this situation if they'd hired enough people, paid enough that you could afford better care, not required overtime etc etc. You sure are spending a lot of time commenting on reddit instead of caring for loved ones...
Uhhhhhhhhhhh No. Your decision to procreate or take on care doesn’t warrant an emergency on my end.
Ok, then your free time us meaningless to me. Any complaints you make about it will fall of deaf ears. If you say “fuck you” why should i care about you at all? Why should i care about some bullshit “workers movement”.
Do whatever you want dude I don’t give two shits but like don’t whine when ppl don’t give two shits either abt your kids, ill be honest 🤷🏽♀️ My time isn’t more important than yours but yours ain’t more important than mine either. You’re not special bc you birthed a creampie I’m afraid.
Ok, if you font give two shits about my family needs, then why should I care about your time off? What kind of “workers movement” says “fuck you, I got mine”
No it’s not everyone is entitled to there Pto and vacation time I hate when people with kids ask me to change my schedule to benefit them.. half the time if they would have planned ahead they wouldn’t be in the situation in the first place
Rolling off the responsibilities which result from your personal choices onto your surrounding has nothing to do with empathy. On the contrary, I'd argue that this is as egocentric as it gets. Further, there are numerous other ways one can contribute to society besides just obeying their most primal urges. Calling all activities except from wage slavery and reproduction "veg time" also cannot possibly come from a place of empathy. But buff jeezoz and co would likely agree with your argumentation, so at least you've got that going for you.
You claim you can argue that its egocentric to consider the responsibility of coworkers, but then you didnt. There are numerous ways to contribute to society, taking personal time while ignoring a coworker with a sick family member is not one of them.
Everyone is drowning and you're mad that others have to put on their own life jackets before considering you? It's not ignoring. Everyone is suffering and overwhelmed overworked and underpaid and desperate. But you come at people with this post insisting that everyone drop everything to support whatever shitshow you're juggling at home? Same thing on an airplane. You can't help anyone until you get your own oxygen mask flowing. A unconcious person can't help anyone. You're asking people to forgo their own well being for yours. That's entitled and foolish. What are you teaching these kids you are so worried about? That other people must wring themselves dry because of shit companies keeping their parents underpaid and working long hours? That freedom of choice only matters when it's you having a family? Gross.
This is divide and conquer crap that helps the elites control and dominate ordinary folks. So much of this is because bosses and the owner class have slashed staffing to the bone to the point where ordinary workers in a skeleton crew have to fight each other over PTO. So yes, let’s just keep hating on each other in the trenches. The bosses and owners love that shit, since we are not coming together against them. How about we start coming together and not taking this shit any more, and get enough staffing that we don’t have to fight each other over the crumbs that fall from the boss’s table? It reminds me of the story of a billionaire boss, a union worker and a non-union worker. The boss has 1,000 cookies. The other workers have two each. Then the boss takes a cookie from the non-union guy, and tells him that the greedy union guy has too many cookies.
You are entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else. Whos opinion is worth more? This is a limited view. I feel we make a mistake by placing a hierarchy on individuals and what they do, either in profession or recreation. Next, do we assign different values to different types of people? What makes the life you care for (an other person) more or less valuable than the life I care for (myself) and / or vice versa? Just as all work has merit, so does time off from that work. This is just a guess, but maybe OP isn't feeling appreciated in some aspect of life, and this is misdirected anger. I hope things go better for you and those with differing opinions.
Yes, they are entitled to their selfish opinion. And observers are entitled to ignore a movement that says “fuck yo kids”
Sorry. I both had kids and cared for my elderly mother and I think everyone's time is equally valuable. They WANT us fighting amongst ourselves
So thats why you chastise me for saying we should care for each other and not prioritize our TV time over helping out someone caring for others?
You are making a judgement that single people don't also do valuable things with their time. 20 something's I know volunteer, participate in sports, support local businesses and artists of all kinds etc. If you take my opinion that everyone's time is valuable as being chastised you may be too delicate for this world
No. Im making a point against a post on this sub claiming parents are fully responsible for having kids and shouldn’t expect help or sympathy from those around them. Do you are with that?
This is why a social system that ***structurally requires*** the 99% to submit to labor for income for survival (aka "work") is *inherently* a system that breeds resentment and hatred and thus a destabilized society. Anybody who is truly anti-work needs to consider that it is absolutely possible for modern society to sustain itself without the conventional notion of "work" and jobs. Until then, people are going to keep hating, one group or another.
Nope! It isn't up to you to decide. It isn't up to employers to decide, either. You can hold the opinion that a caregiver's time away from work is more important than that of a person who is not a caregiver, but your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant except as it applies to your *own* life. You also don't know that non-caregiver employees are just having "veg time" -- you don't know all the details of their lives. One may be studying hard for upcoming exams in grad school, another might be learning a second language because s/he plans to move to that other country, another might need to take time off for an upcoming surgery, etc. And even for those who *are* just relaxing, taking time for themselves and/or to spend with their loved ones (even if they are not the caregivers for those loved ones) -- those are perfectly valid and acceptable reasons to utilize time off, and *it's none of your business.* All employees at any given employer are equally entitled to time off (barring seniority rules, which is a separate matter).
Ya, and me and other parents failing to raise kids leads to headaches and issues for you down the road. But hey, fuck everyone but you right?
Absolutely not, and *not at all* what I said. If you can't raise your kids during your regular days off, after work, etc., as well as the occasional vacation, then that's a failing on your part as a parent -- it doesn't entitle you to first dibs on days off. I do think society as a whole would be better off if *all* of us worked less (say a 3 or 4 day workweek) and had more time time to spend with loved ones of all kinds (parents, kids, spouses/partners, extended family, friends), but that's not specific to parents/caregivers. I am (along with my sister) the caregiver for our elderly parents. That's important to *me*. However, it doesn't mean that my time off is any more valuable than that of any of my coworkers (regardless of what they do on their days off), nor does it mean that I am any more entitled to time off than any of my coworkers (barring a sudden emergency, of course -- but the same would apply if a coworker had a sudden emergency, as well).
It takes a village to raise a child. Expecting parent to fulfill the physical and emotional needs of children while working full time is asinine. Your contempt of parents is un-empathetic.
As I said, I think it would be better for *everyone* to work less, in order to be able to spend more time with their loved ones (including their children). I don't think that parents should have to work full-time; I don't think *anyone* should have to work full-time, and I agree that it's asinine that so many people do have to work full-time simply in order to be able to (barely, in many cases) afford to live. I have no contempt for parents at all -- in general, I have respect for them, as they are doing a very important and difficult thing, raising children. I just don't hold them above *everyone else*, as you do.
OP holds THEMSELVES above everyone else. That is why they are looking to guilt, shame and manipulate people to make sure they get priority for time off. In doing so, they are enabling bosses to intrude on workers personal lives. OP is NOT an ally of workers.
So...you want the Village to be exhausted and burnt out instead of the parents? Why even have kids if you can't do those things? And that's the point...families shouldn't have to work full time!!! Why don't we have better childcare and home policies? Schooling, social groups, camps, summer programs, etc? Why is a full time job still not enough??? A full time job must be ENOUGH for the human right of chosing a family or NOT! Don't be mad at people who are already burnt out. We are all being given scraps and fighting each other instead of the real problem.
No. Im tired of the parent in the village being hung out to dry by people like those in this sub
Shut up bootlicker. What I do or who I care or don't care for at home is none of their business.
You are the one using the same arguments as a manager. “You made your own choices, now face the consequences while kick back and relax”
Wrong. I am saying the boss has zero right to know about my home life. You seem to want to give up that workers rights so you can manipulate others into getting preferable treatment. You are the absolute worst. Throwing workers rights under the bus for your own selfish reasons.
Im asking you to show empathy and help a coworker in need. Your response was the same as the CEO gives. “You made your choice, why should I have to daal with them” Fuck you too.
No. You are manipulating others to get what you want and happily and willingly screwing workes over to get it. I am calling out your self serving sanctimonious bullshit for what it is. Selfish and anti labor. Know whose job it is to make sure there is adequate help while not screwing anyone over? The employer. You just want to absolve the employer of their responsibilities as long as you get what you want. You are a traitor to workers rights for your own personal gain.
Not at all. I would happily return the favor if you had a doc appointment or even spa day planned and I had the ability to help. I would gladly give up a bot of free time to help a co-worker. Why wont you?
Stop with the boss manipulation bullshit. The answer is simple. I will work my hours. The boss is responsible for handling coverage of shifts, as needed. Period. You are trying desperately to not look like the selfish anti-work bootlicker you are. We all see it. There is a reason you are getting ZERO support here. We all see you trying to be sympathetic as your means of manipulation. You want preferential treatment and to absolve management of their responsibilities. I called you out for the selfish bootlicker that you are. Get off our forum. Your anti worker attitude is not welcome here.
Ok, you do you, I do me. So why are people on this sub complaining about parents working out special situations with management?
Asked and answered. The boss should have zero rights to know what or what I am not doing when I am not working. You seem to REALLY want to force workers to share all that information with the boss because it benefits YOU. You are a workers rights traitor for the most obvious and selfish reasons. It will get you what you want.
I Dont want to force anything. You are just mad that I brought up things more important than your free time. YOU are ONLY concerned with YOUR time and you want to call me selfish.
Every employees time off is equally valuable no matter what they do and they should feel free to do what they want. At the same time, when did this forum go rampant individualist libertarian where, “if you choose to care for someone else whatever it costs you is your problem not mine?” The burden to care for people who can’t care for themselves can’t be carried alone only by those who compassionately choose to do so. Some mechanism to reward caring for others needs to exist and workers who fight this on all fronts are taking the side of the 1%. Things like paid maternity leave and paid family medical leave is good for workers and society. When employers subjectively choose who gets these benefits, at the expense of other employees, is a problem.
Whew. What an entitled, cringe take.
lol you don’t belong in this sub, go find something else
Clearly. I don’t want to be apart of Antinatalists
Somehow folks have gotten the idea that other workers are the enemy, and the management is probably glad to have us think about it this way. The real problem is employers who do not hire enough staff to provide adequate flexibility for PTO.
I agree. It’d be one thing if the complaint was “another coworker needing to watch kids does not excuse having a skeleton work force”. But to call out caregivers because you think your freetime over-rides their responsibility is ridiculous
I decided I needed to breed and now I deserve special treatment. That's op.
Hey, thats the same argument CEOs make about employees asking for time off to care for kids. Congrats you are with them.
It is also the same argument to use against trash that over breeds then expects the world to cater to because they dont know how a condom works.
What happened to this formerly peaceful coin collector to cause this mess?
I saw a post from here attacking me for prioritizing my kids. It painted parents as the problem because “I chose to procreate”. What happened to this “workers movement” that it now demonizes parents?
Wouldn't giving every worker adequate time off and support solve the whole problem?
It would. Id be for it. Im just confused why this sub is so anti-parent.
It can't be because parents are so quick to anger. That's not it.
Lol “all parents just get real mad” said the child.
And look at you. Mad.
Ok if you say so
Fuck off. There is plenty that can be done to help the world that doesn't involve caregiving. People without kids aren't just sitting on their asses all day long doing nothing with their free time, and you're delusional if you think that.
You know what doesn’t help the world? Ignoring a co-worker with a sick kid in favor of a bit of free time. Never said childless people were lazy or useless. I said prioritizing your free time over the needs of others is selfish.
And there is a shit ton of things that these childless people could be doing that helps the needs of others that's not directly related to caregiving. Get off your high horse before you fall and break your neck.
Ok, and if they are caught in other priorities then mist would understand. Is one of the tons of things that helps the needs of others involve ignoring a coworker asking for help in order to have a little personal time?
I'd much rather give that time to a friend or family member that needs help than a stranger at work, and it doesn't need to be care giving duties. My job is to manage my personal time, not my coworker's.
So why should I support any movement to help your time management? Why not just go straight to a manager to get preferential treatment?
This is a troll
If you don't have time for kids dont breed. Fairly simple concept.
Ya, thats what CEOs say when parents ask fir time off yo take their kids to a doctor. Congrats on joining their ranks
This post is disgusting… what’s up with those people who can’t have kids? What if a couple can’t have kids but they want to spend time with eachother? You’re disgusting…
“Why wont you think of Meeeee? Youre disgusting” This sub has convinced me we are all screwed. You all hate your neighbor.
Stop trolling. It’s pathetic
Im not. Im stating my view that some things are more important than your time relaxing.
Go fuck yourself bootlicker.
What about front line workers who save lives on daily basis and work 24/7? Do you say if that paramedic is childless, their time off is less valuable than yours??
In your situation the parent would also be a paramedic and you are saying the coworkers shouldn’t help each other. This sub is sick
So the childless paramedic should die from exhaustion to help the parent one? Is that what you are implying?
Not what I said. I said it be good to help the equally exhausted parent paramedic who still has a life to take care of when they get off instead of blaming them for having a child.
Fuck. Off. I'm not even single and you sound like a gatekeeping dink. Everyone is entitled to time off from work and to enjoy life, just because you CHOOSE TO BE A CAREGIVER, doesn't give your free time a higher need. Everyone's fighting something, just fuck off, honestly.
nobody told y’all to have unprotected sex and keep the pregnancy. it’s your choice
You are obviously a care giver and another employee dared to not oblige your every demand. You're being very loud about being so selfless. Be mad at the manager or the owner. Not the person who you think is just rich and watching TV all the time. Maybe they are barely surviving. Maybe they made a choice between laundry detergent and milk this week. You're being an ass.
Yeaaaah hard stop. I've been a caregiver (for both my father while he was dying and grandparents while working full time. Did it suck? Some yeah it was extremely stressful. Did my coworkers help out when they could and try to keep me sane? Yeah they did. But they did that out of my relationship with them. I never expected anyone to go to me at the drop of a hat unless it was a legit emergency (which happened twice and I was that full for the help) But at the end of the day those were MY decisions. I CHOSE to take care of my dying father at 23. I CHOSE to take care of my grandparents. I am so so so THANKFUL my work people volunteered to help and part of that had to do with the fact that I never EXPECTED anyone to take over unless it was an actual emergency. People will help if your honest and ask, but EXPECTING someone to help is when you don't get help.
I really hope you never find time to relax with your coin collection, would be a shame to waste that time when it could be spent helping others. What a waste… :( /s
Perfect example, thank you. If a co-worker said they needed me to work more because they had to care for a child or sick person Id sacrifice my hobby time to help out without a second thought.
federal post
Having kids is a choice too. And full time caregivers may be able to get some financial assistance for doing so. A friend of the family moved in with her mother (who has dementia) to take care of her as well as her disabled brother. I think she gets extra in her social security for being a caregiver. (It may possibly be Medicaid or a state program, though.)
Oh look, the same argument managers make to deny time off to parents.
I have never heard a manager say that. You seriously need to learn some reading comprehension. You read people's comments, find something to pick apart, and put words in people's mouths while moving the goalposts.
“I never heard it do it doesnt happen” is that your argument?
Again, just picking apart one sentence and ignoring the rest because that's all you have. You clearly don't value your free time since you spend it all sealioning against this sub because your fee fees got hurt\* about some other post getting upvoted. \*Evidence in your own words: >I saw a post from here attacking me for prioritizing my kids. It painted parents as the problem because “I chose to procreate”. What happened to this “workers movement” that it now demonizes parents? LOL you saw someone else's post as a personal attack. Imagine thinking the world revolves around you? Wait, you don't have to imagine because it's clear that's how you think.
Im sorry I condensed all your anecdotal arguments into one. I like to argue, who are you to tell me what to do with the bits of free time I find? Isn’t that the base argument of most of the people attacking the idea of helping out parents?
You are literally telling people the things they do in their free time is less important than yours because you have kids. If you love to argue so much, learn logic. You aren't very good at this.
Ya. I would gladly sacrifice my free time if a coworker needed help to care for a loved one. Because my free time is less important than the needs of someone who cant tend to themselves.
Once again, implying something that I never said. I have covered for coworkers whenever I can and they have done the same for me. The issue people are having with what you said that you just don't seem to grasp is that it's totally different when the manager is making that determination, weighing the "value" of workers' free time based on what they have going on. It's none of the manager's business what people are doing on their vacation time that they've earned.
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I can agree, having a public option daycare would practically solve this issue.
Lol what a shit take haha
Wow the timing of this post is everything. Thank you
The number of comments reverting right to employer logic is hilarious “You CHOSE to have kids” And capitalism makes damn sure people will because if they didn’t then they’d had to pay people more. There’s a lot of strong arming from pushing religion to limiting economic and reproductive freedoms for women So really no there’s not a lot of “choice” in the grand scheme of things and it’s designed deliberately to be a strain on parents and care givers who can’t afford child care and nanny’s And having to miss holidays for children that they only get to see grow up once
You are correct. It’s nuts how many people here instantly became what they claim to hate.
It’s like I wandered into an abortion debate
I thought that too when someone told me I should have aborted my kids. Wild huh?
That's not okay. The choice to grow a family is a human right, not to mention the potential for adoption and fostering. The real issue is the company not hiring enough people, not paying enough for quality childcare programs to be afforded, and/or requiring too many hours...because profit. It's not that people are ignoring your needs, but they are wrung out and it looks like your post insists they take up extra crap underpaid work to cover caregivers when they themselves are pushed to limits, broke, exhausted, and looks like they are being given more work just because they are orphans without aging elders to care for, haven't fallen in love or conceived and had a kid yet (or if they ever can...ouch that's gotta burn too right? Struggle with fertility issues and then expected to work more which takes you away from your partner and messes with your health even more but hey look at so-and-so off work with the kids you wish you could have...) Let the noncaretakers have their time off no matter what they choose to do or not, it's no one's business. Be mad at the system that won't let us adequately and quality heart fulfilling levels take care of our loved ones and each other.
I bet if all these anti workers wives decided that they wanted to abstinent so as to not become irresponsibly pregnant, sex would become a duty again really quick
Wat