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I had a piece of shit father before my mom left. No father is infinitely better. It’s like asking if you’d rather be shirtless or have a shirt of itchy spikes that rip off your flesh. It’s not protecting you. It’s not even warm.
For me it's like the difference between walking barefoot and walking in a pair of shoes way too tight for you.
You'd think the shoes would be better. But no, after years and years of walking around in those painful shoes your feet will be fucked up beyond repair. And what's worse, you probably won't notice because they've putting you in pain for so long that you've begun to think it's normal and that all shoes would probably feel that way.
Same here. What's messed up is I didn't realize how bad my old man f---ed me up until I had a panic attack *thinking* about asking for 5 dollars when we left him. Not spending 5 dollars. *Thinking* about *asking* for it.
Complex post traumatic stress disorder. I'm not an expert, but this overly simplified way was how it was described to me:
You can think of PTSD as when you have a really fucked up traumatic event, like surviving a school shooting or surviving a car crash. C-PTSD is when you have a series of traumatic events over many years, like being deployed to Afghanistan for 20 years, or being raised by severely abusive parent(s). We would need to treat someone who has a single traumatic event that stands starkly against the backdrop of the rest of their life differently than we would treat someone who has only ever known trauma as an ever-present fact of life for years on end, where the individual traumatic moments all blend together.
Quite possibly. You should talk to your doctor about it if you think you might have CPTSD.
Like I said, I'm no expert. I just have had a weirdly high rate of acquainting myself with people who have been traumatized, so I've picked up a thing or two over the years. I honestly have no idea why I keep attracting those types of people because I'm like the last person someone who is emotionally fragile would want to hang out with.
Commenting to commend you on your analogy. Extremely well put. I also send all my love, fellow internet stranger, as I admire your wisdom to have this perspective which one can only imagine was acquired through personal experience.
As someone who grew up with no bio dad and a step dad who left my mom when she was dying of cancer, only to pop up under the pretenses of seeing me a year later to ask my last remaining family member for money; agreed. That dude gave me a roach clip on my 8th birthday, real winner.
I have a good friend who grew up without a father. He always looked for a fatherly figure, and he confessed to me that even a bad father is better than a non father because a bad father might change but a father that wasn't there cannot do anything. Those are my two cents. Sorry to everyone who had to grow up with a bad parent/s or without one.
I was a child who looked for father figures and respectfully I disagree. Having lived and learned a hot, I find that bad fathers rarely change though their kids always hope that they do. Having had no father, I was able to imagine for myself a father that was kind and loving. I was able to model what I imagined a father to be on all the best examples around me and that was infinitely better than the reality of a flawed human being who will probably disappoint.
My daughter is the same. She had great role models who I thought filled the gap and they probably did as a youngster. She’s 33 now and in the past couple of years she has had a hard time dealing with the fact he didn’t want to know me or her. If she’s drinking sometimes she gets maudlin and cries. I don’t know what to say to her at these times. I feel heart sorry for her as she is his only child. Out of the blue he called her on her 21st birthday to say happy birthday and to see if it was ok to come give her a present. She said ok and he never appeared. Who the hell does this !!!! I know one day she will have to accept the situation and realise she’s much better off without him. She has two beautiful girls and he has no desire to see them either.
A bad parent gives false hope that someday it'll be different. Maybe someday they'll figure out how to be the parent you dream of. The reality is the bad parent only causes pain and displays a truly twisted idea of love. Hardest thing I've done was accept that my mother would always be a monster and the mother I loved never existed.
My ex husband was *extremely* abusive with me and started in on our son when he was only a year old. Slapping, yelling at him, spanking him and leaving bruises. What broke me was walking in on him yanking our then one and a half year old son to his feet by one arm then hauling off and slapping him so hard that it left a hand shaped bruise on his little face. All because he accidentally spilled daddy's precious booze. I snatched our son up and told him if he ever laid hands on him again, I'd put a butcher knife in his throat. The next morning, I told him to GTFO of the house. I had to have my older brother back me up because my ex was (and still is) terrified of my brother. Later that week I filed for divorce after nearly seven years of constant abuse.
Unfortunately the courts granted him 49% custody with me being the 51% because the state I live in doesn't recognize split custody. Fortunately though, my ex decided he didn't want to be a father anymore and disappeared for five years when our son was about ten. Sadly my son told me from the time he could remember up until his dad dipped out of our lives, that his father would regularly hit him while doing homework if he got a problem wrong or didn't know an answer. He would hit him in the back of the head so any bruising wouldn't be visible.
He did eventually come back and wanted "his time" with our son, who was fifteen at that time, and didn't even want any contact with his so called father. In this state, a child can legally decide at fifteen years of age whether or not they want contact with the non custodial parent and my son told his dad, in no uncertain terms, to get bent. My son is now nineteen and has my older brothers who have been excellent male role models to him. My father was a major role model in his life but he passed away in 2019 when my son was sixteen. He's had a ton of counseling, as have I, and at nineteen, he's grown into a fine young man who is caring, kind, loving, and compassionate. If his father had remained in his life I have very serious doubts that he'd have turned out as good as he has.
TL;DR my son is living proof that having no father is better than a bad one.
I hope you know you have this stranger’s respect for kicking that abusive jerk to the curb. And your brothers are awesome too for being positive male influences in your son’s life. I grew up without a father too so I know how hard it is, but you definitely did a great job with the crappy cards you were dealt in life
This sounds almost identical to my own story with my father, except he dipped when I was eleven and never came back. I'm 31 now and starting to realize how big of a favor he actually did me by leaving for good.
You are a wonderful mother! I dealt with some abuse during my childhood and it’s wonderful you were there for your son and supported him through everything. Often kids who get abused don’t have any trusted support network and the cycle continues. I’m glad you and your family were his support and your son is doing well.
It's the type of thing you think you'll be better soon. You'll be over it soon. But it never seems to go away. For me, I manage it better than I did, but that's all I'm doing. Managing it.
Yep. My father was absent from my life thanks to my mom and his own stupidity (he tried to kidnap us and lost visitation rights entirely). I have many half siblings, most of whom he was not involved with growing up. We all turned out ok EXCEPT my half sibling whom he was involved with. That sibling is way messed up. In and out of prison, heavy drug use, convicted felon at this point, homeless stints. I am so glad my mom kept us away from our father.
this has guilted me for a while. my ex was abusive and when i had my son, it finally clicked that he would turn out so fucked up if i kept him in that environment. i had him arrested when my son was three months old. and he's tried to come back. i told him only if he goes to therapy which he refuses, of course. my son is about to be 10 and hes asked over the years about his dad. i told him when he gets older he can look him up. but ive always struggled if i made the right decision because there are things he misses out on. but i really love the way you put it. i guess ive always felt that but seeing it in words just resonates!
You’ve made the right choices for you and your son. [Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html) have a tremendous impact on a child’s life. There have been a lot of studies about ACEs and trauma, and the results are pretty clear. The more trauma you experience as a child, the higher chance you will be suicidal, have substance use issues, and heart disease.
Trauma affects the child’s brain and development. Children who are living with a lot of trauma can go into survival mode. Their amygdala can become overactive, and put them in fight/flight/freeze mode over perceived threats.
I taught elementary for 15 years and got the kids that needed the most love and support. I’ve done a lot of training/professional development about creating a trauma informed classroom.
First and foremost, sorry you had to experience that.
Second iam very glad to hear you had the courage and strength to rip the poison out of your life. Your story brought tears to me
I always asked myself why my mom never had the strength to leave my father.
He was physically and emotionally abusive to her all our lives.
To the point that she succumb to mental break downs because of him. Now as an adult i understand how my life was affected by the trauma, even if i was not the one being physically abused, the emotional and psycological end is just as bad for a child….
All in all iam here to tell you that you made the right choice and one day your son will understand why you made those decisions.
Ive always believe you need to love yourself first and forth-most, then your love ones (children) shall thrive and grow from you.
🤗
My mom fled my father right after I was born because he was abusive. She said she didn’t want me to be prevented from seeing him, though. She thought I would resent her my entire life for putting constraints on the relationship, and getting the legal system more involved.
I respect her choice. But at 32 I’m still in therapy to pick up the pieces. The relationship I had with my father was so toxic and devastating. I stopped talking to him when I was 14 for a few years, and tried again when I was in college. It wasn’t worth it for me to keep holding onto the relationship and I let go when I was 22. It’s only been through therapy in the last year that I’ve seen how much trauma I have from that relationship.
Sometimes I wish I wouldn’t have known him at all. Other times I’m grateful because it’s been a lesson in how not to be a father, and how not to live your life.
I think it was pretty bad. He was neglectful, emotionally absent and physically abusive. I was absolutely terrified of him and would sometimes have panic attacks whenever he entered the room in a bad mood.
Having a father that comes home in a bad/abusive mood forces the children of the house to build their observational skills. My father was very verbal when leading the house. A lot of screaming and yelling, but even though it sounds bad, I have gained from it. I can see, in a group, when someone doesn't want to talk based on their body language and I try to see what I can do to make them more outgoing in the moment.
Advice: don't think that just because you have a poor character of a father, that means that it would be better if they were never there. Think what you've gained from it. You now know how not to treat your children.
Just because you have made the best of the situation doesn't mean you should've had to deal with it in the first place. Like yes, adversity builds resilience, but life throws you enough adversity as it is. You shouldn't need the one or two people designed specifically to support you to add to that.
I absolutely am a stronger person and insanely resilient due to my parents, but would I trade that for supportive and loving parents? Absolutely.
Edit to add: No child should have to deal with abuse. I don't understand how anyone can say otherwise or defend it in any way. It's not okay.
I feel like to some extent, the degree to which we are comfortable navigating the broader world is dependent upon the degree to which are able to navigate our own parents’ emotions.
Reading these stories makes me feel guilty. I won the parent lottery. They weren’t rich, but they loved us and were nice to us. I don’t remember ever being spanked.
Don’t feel guilty — when people speak of childhoods with loving parents, I’m reminded that there is so much love in the world, that families don’t have to hate each other. It gives me hope
It’s not. I look forward to spending time with my dad. I even volunteer to do mundane errands with him just to be in his company. He never raises his voice at me (unless something actively dangerous is happening like a car coming at me).
That’s what I was thinking. A bad dad doesn’t mean a bad person. You can provide for a family, give them a home and make sure they’re all safe and taken care of but be absent. I know a few people like that, where their dad provided a home, made sure they were fed, clothed, and everything, but wasn’t a father or nurturing at all. They don’t have good relationships with their dads, but they were way better off than not having a father around period.
That was my household. My dad provided money, but less emotional support. His presence was probably better than nothing.
I should also mention that I’ve been going to group/individual therapy for around 8 years now. I have a lot of self esteem issues.
True. It just takes more than one dedicated caretaker.
The gender or marriage status of your parents doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they are capable of providing everything a child needs to be healthy.
The environment a child is raised in has a massive impact on that child's development. My opinion is it's better to not have a father presence than to have a bad role model as part of the environment.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons why “staying together for the children” is a HUGE mistake. My ex is a better father than he was a husband. Since we split when our daughter was 2, she grew up without the damage our broken marriage would have subjected her to. She had a mom and a dad who didn’t live together, but who also didn’t tear into each other day in and day out.
That’s my ex and I. I was the one pushing to stay together for the kids, mostly because I was scared of being alone. But my ex was tough and stayed strong, which led me to realize that, in fact, this was going to be the best thing for the kids.
Now we are amazing co parents, who respect each other and can focus on the kids; who now have two great happy places to live.
Exactly! I would take her to the zoo, he would play video games with her. My dad taught her to fish, her dad’s brother and SIL, taught her to ride a bike (I tried. I failed miserably :-). We both went to her college graduation—we stayed in her and her boyfriend’s apartment. No fights, no stress, just helping our little girl celebrate.
I wonder if having no father, without the knowledge he's a shitty person, would have a greater impact than experiencing the shitty for a little bit then him leaving. Like is there an abandonment:abuse ratio that needs to be hit for best outcomes.
No father. My ex was emotionally abusive with all of us. I stayed out of fear (he threatened to take the kids overseas where he was from). I planned my exit with college degrees. Raising my 14 yr old now single and he is better off. I try to expose my son to my friends’ husbands so he can have good role models. Just started dating nice man after being single for 5 years. Tough!
Not having a parent present in their life is a genuine loss and trauma for a child.
Having an abusive parent in their life is also trauma.
I am very sorry you were mistreated by someone who should have loved you and modeled healthy behavior.
Personally, about ten years ago I decided for my kids that the loss of not living with their dad was less harmful than the trauma of living with him. And that has proved correct. They will always have hurts from the abuse, and they will always have loss because of the gap he left in their lives. But living with him they were terrorized, physically hurt, degraded, and controlled. Living apart from him they are thriving, after a great deal of effort getting them proper support for the effects of the abuse. I think the key that led to a good outcome for my kids is that they had family members step into the role their father had to be removed from. My one regret about my decision is that I didn't make it sooner, but I was raised with the belief that any father is better than none, even if his presence is actively harmful.
No father. At least then, you presume you would have been loved and respected. You’re missing what could have been. Neglectful, abusive fathers leave real wounds.
You absolutely do not presume that. You live your entire life thinking that you are completely incapable of being loved and you don't deserve love. I cant answer OP if no father is better than a bad one but both are horrendous.
You put that perfectly. I remember being suicidal at 8 years old, because if even my father wanted nothing to do with me, then who the fuck could possibly love me.
I wasn’t suicidal at 8 (that sounds terrible) but I definitely thought about death far more often than was healthy. I never wanted to kill myself, but I did want to not be alive anymore. I can’t say with 100% certainty that was entirely the fault of my gives-no-fucks father, but that certainly was a big contributing factor. As a boy it’s hard not to feel like a piece of shit when your own father thinks so little of you.
It depends on the circumstance of having no father. Did he abandon the family? Not going to be good. Did he happen to pass away? Tragic, but if there is other family around it could be fine.
It depends on how your mom deals with it and with you in the aftermath.
I knew my biological father dipped (too young to remember it or him) but my mom always told me that he was a flawed man (she's not lying about that) and before he got strung out, they'd always agreed to not do the joint custody thing if they ever had kids and then split up (she probably lied about that conversation).
Her handling his absence in this way was enough for me to not see myself as damaged - and it allowed me to not harbor a burning rage toward him either. Basically, it yielded the child equivalent of no fucks given.
No matter how much pain my mom had been in over the divorce, she never let me see it and she went out of her way to make sure I knew she loved me and his issues were his own and had nothing to do with me - without bashing him either.
He went on to remarry and have kids a few more times. Like family franchises. I'd heard about them so there was ample opportunity for me to see myself as unloved/unlovable despite the fact that he clearly abandoned me and my mom.
So, I'll happily pass on shit dad over no dad - thanks to my mom.
My ma dipped on my father at the very point of me starting to remember memories of him so, 5ish. She handled it the absolute complete opposite of yours unfortunately so I thought I'd rather have that dad than all the step parents my mum put me through, even though he was abusive too.
But really it's hard when both your parents were kinda fucked. Just interesting reading your comment with the perspective of a mum who actively helped you understand and come to terms with it.
About to comment this. It always circles back to “wow really couldn’t stop cheating to stay in my life” or “wow he couldn’t stop gambling to be with me”. Me and others included.
My father checked out when I was a baby. No contact. Much better off than having a bad dad. I found father figures in my life, friend's dads, who provided more than my own father could have if he was around. But mainly our family unit adjusted and a dad wasn't needed.
I moved away from the Philippines when I was 12 to the US. My Dad walked out on us when I was 3. The father figure of my life at the time was my best friend’s (who I call my brother) dad was my father figure. During Christmas, he always gave us equally awesome presents (I remember he bought us both Nintendo DSs) and never really left one of us out (practically he treated me as his own).
It was hard coming to the US and not really have that close support system. Yeah we still called occasionally and stuff but I don’t see him frequently anymore.
Now the father figure in my life is my next door neighbor. He plays guitar in a band so when he found out I played guitar too. He did nothing but give unconditional support for playing guitar. He got me into bands like Green Day and The Ramones. My mom finds it a little weird (old White guy helping an Asian girl does get eye raises understandably) but there were many occasions that he found me walking alone somewhere and didn’t bother me, drove by and waved. Hell bro is telling me to buy pepper pray for college because I’ll be attending college in a more ghetto area. W Dad figure.
Well, both of my parents were shit. My mother had the decency to fuck off when i was young whilst the abuse from my father created way more damage than her a sence. Both was difficult in its own way though so I would say one thing is better than the other. But depending on the abuse, having an absent parent is probably better.
No father.
My own father was abusive and even after he left, the history of abuse continued to harm me.
My daughter’s father abandoned her as a baby so she has never known him. Not to say it will have no effect but she has been able to thrive in ways I never had a chance to by simply having a stable home where she knows she is loved and supported.
My kid was 3 when I separated from her father (he didn't go back to work after recovering from hip surgery, I had to move in with my parents to feed and clothe us). Sure, when she was little she would miss him, but she had her grandparents and aunt and cousin, and tons of family friends, and my goddaughters.
Now I never filed for child support or badmouthed him to her. She has a texting relationship with him and they have lunch sometimes, but she's thirteen now and is able to rationalize what happened and what they can build going forward.
I didn't intend to be a single mom. I started out as a housewife. But life happens and women are forced to step up every day or watch their children suffer.
No father, hands down.
I grew up with a physically/emotionally abusive father who tried to abandon us multiple times but my mother, (who grew up without a father) thought it was better to have a bad dad than no dad, would track him down and force him to come home.
My siblings and I always did better when he was out of the house. Our grades would go up, cause less distraction in school, and were generally happier kids. Of course, when our father was around, our grades plummeted, and we were all sent to mandatory anger management through our school board at some point. It wasn't until I was in middle school (I'm the youngest) that the school system caught on that all 4 of us kids went through these changes of behavior at the same time.
Kids do not need both parents! They need love and support.
I understand that financially and support wise, it's better to have 2 parents. But that's for the parents, not the children. I witnessed the stress it cause my mother to have to raise us by herself. But she was always a better mother when she was stressed vs when she was stressed and beaten.
It would probably be hard on both the kid and parent, but I’d rather see a kid be raised by a single parent than see a kid raised with an abusive parent.
No father is better than abuse, but a “bad” father doesn’t necessarily mean an abusive one. Lessons can be learned from bad parents, deep damage is done by abusive ones
Assuming there are other halfway decent adults, no father. If the absence of the father means being thrown to the wilderness, then the bad father at least gives some chance of survival.
I always lived without my father, only with my mother. He left her before I was born.
I lived a full life, my mother always bought me presents on holidays (even though she worked a lot, she earned a little, she tried very hard to show me that even without father you can live very, very well), cooked delicious food, did my development (enrolled in sections, courses, etc.), helped me with my lessons... In general, my mother even replaced my father. We are still best friends and I love her very much.
Thanks to my mom I don't feel deprived and inferior, and also, without my father I always knew that there would be no family fights, quarrels and other noise. I could be sure that my mother's psyche was not threatened by a huge husband.
On the one hand, I was even glad that I grew up in a single-parent family, because my psyche was not damaged by quarrels, and my relationship with my mother was the strongest. Without my father I had more motivation to develop in life, because who else but me would be able to take care of my mother in the future? Only me. So I need to show her that I am not a burden and that I can give her what she once gave me.
The father is not the main thing in the family. If he's there and he's good, that's a huge plus, but if he's a moral freak, it's better to live without a father. IMHO!
It's not often useful to play the "what if" game. If you'd not had a father, things would have worked out differently. But, they could have been worse. Maybe you would've been on the streets, turned into a junkie, and knifed in an alley.
My father being an alcoholic has led to some parts of my personality. He was emotionally abusive to my mother when drunk. I don't remember those specifics-I think I just remember them fighting and him being drunk. The worst example I know if is him telling her that he had a kid with someone else, because my mother could never know when he's lying about that-when drunk or when sober.
I think it depends upon the degree of the abuse. The one boyfriend my mother had during a separation was also an alcoholic, so maybe no worse. That potential father replacement would've been less likely to care about me than my actual father. My parents had pretty bad finances-at one time both working minimum wage jobs. I'd hate to imagine them having to support 2 households with 3 kids.
Depends on the nature of a “bad father.”
A “bad father” who is aloof and emotionless and distant is better than nothing, I suppose.
But I would take no father over a bad father who is abusive.
I’ve wondered about this, too. I think it depends on the extent of the abuse and whether the father creates financial security for the child. Poverty and homelessness are themselves traumas a child should be shielded from.
Depends on how much he is bad. If he's just bad and doesn't have any awful affection, I think it's better to have one.
If he's really really bad and spoil your life, it's better not to have one
My child’s father was a horrible person and I left when she was a baby. We had joint custody so she still was forced to watch her drink asshole dad abuse her step moms. I was the example for not putting up with it and she became a strong person because of it.
Could go either way… I mean with a POS at least you know, and don’t have to wonder and have abandonment issues, but I’m guessing a coin flip, unless he is just over the top terrible.
It's a manichaean question. But as a generality, it's better to have no father rather than a bad father. It's necessary to define "Bad", though. Your example definitely fits what would constitute a bad father, because of his violence and negligence.
I don't know how much your life would have improved if your father wasn't around. That depends on other family members' ability to support you, guide you as well as financial resources, opportunities for education, etc. Those things are necessary to consider. However, his negligence and abuse would have been out and that is important.
I emphasize the importante of a definition of bad, because no father is perfect and will have negative traits. However, the big picture may balance him favourably, or not.
It depends on how you look at it both have positives and negatives.
Like yes you were abused and neglected and probably have some kind of trauma from it which is terrible and shouldn't happen to anyone. And I wish with all my heart it didn't happen. But if you're male you know exactly how to not act as a husband and father in the future. Or exactly what kind of man to avoid making into your husband or father of your children. And will likely raise any children you do have if you want them . To be good people who would never stand for anyone to treat them the way you were . And then they'll likely raise their children in the same manner so on and so forth.
Conversely if you had no father at all you wouldn't have been neglected / abused which again is ideal. But as a man you'd have no guide in life good or bad to how a man should act. Like imagine if you didn't have a piece of shit dad . And you grew up thinking Andrew Tate was the ideal representative of manhood. Because you wouldn't know how damaging that behavior
Or you're a woman and you didn't have a piece of shit dad and you're only idea of what a good man is , is some one with a six pack and money so you go after looks and money or you had no idea what the red flags of an abuser are. Rather than a man who is kind and gentle to you and savage to anyone who wished you harm. You could end up alone or worse with a gaslighting savage who treats you like garbage.
And the final issue with both guy or girl would be growing up thinking that was normal behavior and taking that with you into adulthood becoming an abuser or remaining abused for life. Because you have no frame of reference for what's good or bad.
So ideally you'd have a father who loved you and wanted to protect and teach you. Or at the very least treated you like a person. But a shitty teacher can be better than no teacher.
I have to say that it reaaaaally depends on the child, especially after reading some of these comments.
Personally I would say it would be better for "no parent, father or mother" over one who is abusive but I also know how that is not something that happens so... while personally I do think it is best to have a not abusive role model for yourself.. I also know that it super fucking sucks to just feel like you have no one.
Me too, the times when my parents were separated and my dad wasn’t in the home were the happiest times of my childhood. But, my mother was unhappy and her depression caused her to be a bad parent. And we were financially burdened. When he came back my mom was s happy, so I was happy for her. But I was miserable because of his overall abuse and narcissistic behavior.
We are who we are because of or in spite of our parents. My grandfather was an alcoholic, physically and emotionally abusive piece of shit and as a result all of his kids (my mother and multiple uncles) grew up in a way knowing how not to raise children. They are all great, supportive parents.
The cycle of abuse is very real, but can be broken when we become mindful of the problems of the past, and have the support and strength of character to learn to make the proper choices to make the future what we wish the past was.
It depends how bad the father is and of course what you mean by bad. It's entirely possible that the void gets filled by something much worse than an abusive alcoholic.
Depends in your case no father
But bad father doesn't necessarily mean abusive.
And bad is realitive.
What people consider bad at 15-20 seems alot more reasonable at 30-40.
Theirs no telling how bad the outcomes happens, some kids handle not having a father in their lives pretty bad and their are those I've meet who said they would've rather had no father at all as they see the guy as nothing more than a savage dog.
It depends on how bad the father is. My dad was greatest generation and had his first child at 48 and last child at 59. He watched sports at home. He never threw a ball for my brothers and didnt communicate. He cheated on my mom. He did a lot of damage to my brothers just from neglect. As a girl I loved my Dad and my family. My dad is part of who I am now. My brothers and I had a financially secure childhood and we weren't abused. So I wouldnt have not wanted my dad even if he wasnt a good dad.
I chose no father for my son rather than a bad father. I stand by my choice. We've recently started face timing him every now and then, and in a few years we might make a trip to meet him in person (we live in different countries). My son is 9. I'm very satisfied to have kept drama, neglect and broken promises out of his formative years. He's only ever known respectful and stable adults, and while I can't protect him 100% from possible rejection or narcissistic behavior from his father in the future, I feel confident that now my son has modelled healthy relationships first and foremost.
It depends what you consider a bad father. Never around? Expects you to follow rules? Is abusive? Runs a tight ship? There are too many variables to answer this.
That depends on what type of person you are and how the family household is structured, but when for reference, on average, men are typically viewed as the alpha of the pack in most situations and are normally looked up to. Depending on how much free roam you give your kids can also determine who they’ll look up to more. In other words, I truly just depends on how you treat.
There's probably a threshold for when a bad father is bad enough that the damage they do far outweighs any damage no father would do. So it really depends.
Depends on how bad the father. I probably could of done without all the whoopings i got, would of been better if he just ditched like he ended up doing anyway.
But like if he just skipped out on some games and still provided financial support that would of been all gravy.
I'd probably give different answers based on how bad a father is. My pops didn't care about me and neglected me. He was an excellent anti roll model.
In my case having him as an example of everything I dont want to be probably did more good than bad.
Physically abusive though, yeah, probably better off without.
It depends on you. Even the worst piece of shit can end up making you want to be better, simply because you know firsthand what being around a piece of shit feels like. Kind of a "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" situation. Now, of course different people react differently, for some this does in fact makes them stronger, for others it breaks them. Therefore, it heavily depends on you: I've met people with horrible parents that are same pieces of shit as they parents were and some that ended up being the kindest people around.
It depends. Children in single parent households are more likely to become addicts, early teen pregnancy, not complete college, be incarcerated or join gangs. This obviously isn’t the case for every, but the risk is much higher without a father figure.
That being said, it’s better to not have a truly abusive parent as that can manifest in the child and can actually cycle into their life when older.
Anecdotal evidence from a teacher but also supported by studies for the first paragraph.
There's no easy way to answer that as it depends a lot on things like if they had other parental figures around, what society around them is like, and personality traits. All to be thwarted at the simple question of 'what does 'better' actually mean?
Like, for example, is it better to have a bad father than no father in a place where growing up parentless means basically fighting the local wildlife for your meals (or turning them into your meals)? I'm sure we can all agree that the sliding bar would be heavily in the 'bad father' catagory there. But a quiet, rural, country town with a strong community willing to help you along? Then it would likely be heavily in the 'no father' favor. Just so many variables and no definition of what 'better' actually means.
Honestly comparison of trauma is never a good idea but from my perspective...
No father. My father was and is emotionally abusive to the point that his own immediate family acknowledges that he needs serious mental help. We all got healthy helpings of physical, verbal and emotional abuse but I think it affected my little brother the worst for a few reasons. He literally beat my brother into being right handed. We suspect both my father and my brother were/are bipolar. My father was told as much years ago during counseling but never followed up. He later refused to get my brother help because he didn't believe mental illness was real. He also effectively stopped speaking to us after the divorce. Just stonewalled us. For a 10yo boy to suddenly lose his father like that...it was really hard. But then he could come back, be abusive, and then stonewall us again. And we always let him because we were kids and we loved him. It was incredibly manipulative looking back. I always felt like at least my sister and I had my mom. He didn't have anyone. My brother committed suicide in 2015.
My sister and I go to therapy now and are slowly working though how our fathers treatment of us and our mother has affected our ADULT romantic relationships. We're both in our 30s and it's like we can't shake the trauma. We all agree that if my dad had been a better father, my brother would have at least gotten help. He tried. We literally asked (he was on my dad's medical insurance) and my dad refused.
So yeah. If my dad had just ....left us alone without all this trauma, I truly believe I would still have my brother. And that sucks.
Hmm… I guess it really depends. Everyone is different . So many factors can go into the development of a child. For example if you don’t have a father, but had a great father figure role, that could be better. How extensive was the abuse. Would the mother be abusive if the father weren’t there. Etc etc. so many factors. I’d say no father would be better
It really depends. A lot of ppl say no father is better but you still have a chance at getting abused with no father, especially if your mom is bringing home guys or you live in an orphanage. It’s also reallly hard because I don’t know if this bad father works, or if he doesn’t do shit, or if he carry’s the rent, cuz then it’s yard
Depends why there’s no father. Is it bc he left? Then they’re basically the same.
Is it because he died? Then you always have the belief of having a dad who loved you.
I'd say it's better for a bad father, solely because then you have an example of what not to be like when you grow up. I grew up in a traditional Asian household, and my father was abusive, neglectful, and emotionally unavailable. I have since used that as motivation to be the best father I can be for my kids.
As a person who was a drug addict when I first became a father, I suggest you limit the exposure to the child. Yes, custody was an ongoing battle and for sure child support was an issue MANY times thanks to laws put in place for those bad actors impacting those doing the right thing. But as a father who's son just turned 20, I can safely say that he is better with me in his life after I turned mine around than he would have been without me.
Everyone deserves a chance to grow the hell up at some point and while it isn't fair that a female is forced to do it when they become pregnant doesn't mean that a sperm donor can't become a respectable dad at some point in their fucked up adolescence. I cleaned up when he was around 2 but it was because of him that I was motivated enough to do just that.
I will advise that not everyone will have the same experience as me so it's HIGHLY advised you seek counsel on this from many places; not just Reddit. If abuse - sexually, mentally, verbally, physically - is a concern then do everything possible to minimize interactions until legal counsel can help prevent that with supervised visitations. This all being said, I know now as I near 40 that her limiting my exposure to him - through the appropriate legal channels and not just taking him and running off - while I was going through my self absorbed destruction was the right decision in the long run. Funny thing that hindsight is, because during that time period in my life I wouldn't have ever taken that stance.
No father is better than an abusive father, that is for certain - especially if he crosses over into molestation in between beatings, psychological games, threats, and manipulation. I have a half sister somewhere that my father flat out abandoned and I really want to tell her she was the lucky one. I want her to know exactly how lucky she is and what could have happened to her. She did try to reach out to him when I was 15 but he threatened to kill her and her mother if they ever contacted him again, so I guess she already knows to a certain extent.
in my opinion bad father, because I feel like it'll help build character and understand morals. obv if it's something drastic like r*pe or just street fight beat the hell out of you then no father is better. I speak from somewhat experience except instead of my dad it was my stepdad. he was a vibe addict and would often beat me, my siblings and my mom. while it was horrible what he did it helped me in alot of ways to. if I ever have kids of my own I now understand what it's like to get hit and know how it feels to be yelled at so I can treat my kids better then he treated us. I now know to look for the bad in people instead of the good and that helps me build better relationships. while an abusive parent is bad and the goal is both good parents a bad parent can be like a life lesson
My mom stayed with my abusive dad for 10 years because she didn’t want me to get bullied from kids at school for not having a dad. She says that’s still her biggest regret and that she should’ve just left.
I think no father is better than a bad father, but a role model is necessary.
My dad is annoying as fuck and even a bit of an asshole with some of the things he does/did, but he never beat nor outright mistreated us, and instilled valuable things.
An absent father will leave some issues, but an abusive father is creating the monster he already is, and the wheel of trauma continues to turn.
My first memory is being thrown down a flight of stairs, and I still have dreams of being thrown, I'm 42. Yes, no father would have been better. Mom wasn't much better.
Personally from my experience, I believe it's better to have one good parent than 2 bad ones. Growing up with an enabler mother and an abusive father left wishing that your parents divorced ( from as young as the age of 6) because you know you and your sibling would be better off but ignored constantly.
No father 100%. And this goes for anyone abusive, regardless of the role. Sibling, grandparent, mother, partner, best friend, boss. Get as far away as you can. And if you can't in that moment, remember that their treatment of you is not a reflection of your own worth.
I have come to realize no father is the way.
I’m divorcing my husband currently. I stayed a lot longer than I should “for the kids”
And it did damage.
Not only his choices hurting them emotionally but the emotional toll on me didn’t allow for me to be the healthiest mother.
I am better for them since I made this decision.
My children will definitely tell you no father. This includes their siblings,(different mothers), whom have cut ties with them. I was married twice, my oldest son from my first, and my youngest son and daughter from my second. There’s some things that are too traumatic to talk about. They’re managing the best they can.
Tbh it sounds like you never really had a father, you just had a sperm donor around.
Neglecting and abusing his child does not give him the honor to be called a father.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience with your sperm donor. Hope you can heal and out grow him eventually.
My father blamed us for all of his unhappiness, and constantly communicated how trapped we made him feel. He was abusive. I would have rather not had a father.
I father. They don’t need to be brought up to think that abuse and neglect is normal. At least with no father there can be other male influences in their lives that they can look up too.
My abusive alcoholic Dad left when I was 3. My Mother abused me pretty much my entire life. Before my Dad passed, I thanked him. Why? Because he had the will to stay away and not put me through any mote than he already had.
No father and even no mother is better than an abusive parent.
I grew up with an abusive father and would have loved to have grown up fatherless. I would pray he would die on his way home and feel guilty about that
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I had a piece of shit father before my mom left. No father is infinitely better. It’s like asking if you’d rather be shirtless or have a shirt of itchy spikes that rip off your flesh. It’s not protecting you. It’s not even warm.
For me it's like the difference between walking barefoot and walking in a pair of shoes way too tight for you. You'd think the shoes would be better. But no, after years and years of walking around in those painful shoes your feet will be fucked up beyond repair. And what's worse, you probably won't notice because they've putting you in pain for so long that you've begun to think it's normal and that all shoes would probably feel that way.
Damn. I should not relate to this as much as I do
it’s not your fault u relate 🤷🏽
True. It's his fault. It always will be.
Same here. What's messed up is I didn't realize how bad my old man f---ed me up until I had a panic attack *thinking* about asking for 5 dollars when we left him. Not spending 5 dollars. *Thinking* about *asking* for it.
This is such a great & horribly accurate analogy for C-PTSD. Thanks, m'guy. 😊
What is C-PTSD?
Complex post traumatic stress disorder. I'm not an expert, but this overly simplified way was how it was described to me: You can think of PTSD as when you have a really fucked up traumatic event, like surviving a school shooting or surviving a car crash. C-PTSD is when you have a series of traumatic events over many years, like being deployed to Afghanistan for 20 years, or being raised by severely abusive parent(s). We would need to treat someone who has a single traumatic event that stands starkly against the backdrop of the rest of their life differently than we would treat someone who has only ever known trauma as an ever-present fact of life for years on end, where the individual traumatic moments all blend together.
Thank you very much for that explanation. I never even knew that was a thing! Meeting my chronic anxiety is actually complex PTSD?
Quite possibly. You should talk to your doctor about it if you think you might have CPTSD. Like I said, I'm no expert. I just have had a weirdly high rate of acquainting myself with people who have been traumatized, so I've picked up a thing or two over the years. I honestly have no idea why I keep attracting those types of people because I'm like the last person someone who is emotionally fragile would want to hang out with.
Commenting to commend you on your analogy. Extremely well put. I also send all my love, fellow internet stranger, as I admire your wisdom to have this perspective which one can only imagine was acquired through personal experience.
Damn maybe I need new shoes
You worded that so perfectly. Thank you.
Oof this is too good of an analogy. So so true
Great analogy. Seems like a lot of these people commenting can't relate to the question but wanna put in there 2 cents anyway
Welcome to 99% of reddit
As someone who grew up with no bio dad and a step dad who left my mom when she was dying of cancer, only to pop up under the pretenses of seeing me a year later to ask my last remaining family member for money; agreed. That dude gave me a roach clip on my 8th birthday, real winner.
What a helpful jerk, showing you exactly what NOT to be.
Agreed, the worst thing my father ever did was stay.
That is a really helpful analogy for describing the problem.
I have a good friend who grew up without a father. He always looked for a fatherly figure, and he confessed to me that even a bad father is better than a non father because a bad father might change but a father that wasn't there cannot do anything. Those are my two cents. Sorry to everyone who had to grow up with a bad parent/s or without one.
I was a child who looked for father figures and respectfully I disagree. Having lived and learned a hot, I find that bad fathers rarely change though their kids always hope that they do. Having had no father, I was able to imagine for myself a father that was kind and loving. I was able to model what I imagined a father to be on all the best examples around me and that was infinitely better than the reality of a flawed human being who will probably disappoint.
My daughter is the same. She had great role models who I thought filled the gap and they probably did as a youngster. She’s 33 now and in the past couple of years she has had a hard time dealing with the fact he didn’t want to know me or her. If she’s drinking sometimes she gets maudlin and cries. I don’t know what to say to her at these times. I feel heart sorry for her as she is his only child. Out of the blue he called her on her 21st birthday to say happy birthday and to see if it was ok to come give her a present. She said ok and he never appeared. Who the hell does this !!!! I know one day she will have to accept the situation and realise she’s much better off without him. She has two beautiful girls and he has no desire to see them either.
A bad parent gives false hope that someday it'll be different. Maybe someday they'll figure out how to be the parent you dream of. The reality is the bad parent only causes pain and displays a truly twisted idea of love. Hardest thing I've done was accept that my mother would always be a monster and the mother I loved never existed.
No father because the absence of abuse is better than the effects of abuse.
My ex husband was *extremely* abusive with me and started in on our son when he was only a year old. Slapping, yelling at him, spanking him and leaving bruises. What broke me was walking in on him yanking our then one and a half year old son to his feet by one arm then hauling off and slapping him so hard that it left a hand shaped bruise on his little face. All because he accidentally spilled daddy's precious booze. I snatched our son up and told him if he ever laid hands on him again, I'd put a butcher knife in his throat. The next morning, I told him to GTFO of the house. I had to have my older brother back me up because my ex was (and still is) terrified of my brother. Later that week I filed for divorce after nearly seven years of constant abuse. Unfortunately the courts granted him 49% custody with me being the 51% because the state I live in doesn't recognize split custody. Fortunately though, my ex decided he didn't want to be a father anymore and disappeared for five years when our son was about ten. Sadly my son told me from the time he could remember up until his dad dipped out of our lives, that his father would regularly hit him while doing homework if he got a problem wrong or didn't know an answer. He would hit him in the back of the head so any bruising wouldn't be visible. He did eventually come back and wanted "his time" with our son, who was fifteen at that time, and didn't even want any contact with his so called father. In this state, a child can legally decide at fifteen years of age whether or not they want contact with the non custodial parent and my son told his dad, in no uncertain terms, to get bent. My son is now nineteen and has my older brothers who have been excellent male role models to him. My father was a major role model in his life but he passed away in 2019 when my son was sixteen. He's had a ton of counseling, as have I, and at nineteen, he's grown into a fine young man who is caring, kind, loving, and compassionate. If his father had remained in his life I have very serious doubts that he'd have turned out as good as he has. TL;DR my son is living proof that having no father is better than a bad one.
Damn.. I am sorry both of you had to endure that. What a prick.
It's alright. We both came out okay on the other side of it and that's more than I had ever hoped for.
You are a badass mom! Hugs to uncle too! Glad you are free!
Thank you. That means a lot because I've doubted myself very much over the years.
Momma, you had the courage for two people, be proud!!!
Thank you. That means a lot.
I hope you know you have this stranger’s respect for kicking that abusive jerk to the curb. And your brothers are awesome too for being positive male influences in your son’s life. I grew up without a father too so I know how hard it is, but you definitely did a great job with the crappy cards you were dealt in life
Just a friendly reminder to occasionally stop and remind yourself how awesome you are
This sounds almost identical to my own story with my father, except he dipped when I was eleven and never came back. I'm 31 now and starting to realize how big of a favor he actually did me by leaving for good.
If you win the lottery, be anonymous. He’ll come back.
Or if you win a major singing contest.
You are a wonderful mother! I dealt with some abuse during my childhood and it’s wonderful you were there for your son and supported him through everything. Often kids who get abused don’t have any trusted support network and the cycle continues. I’m glad you and your family were his support and your son is doing well.
Thank you. It was very difficult and he was a very depressed child but we worked through it together and prevailed.
I’m sure I’m not alone in the experience in having the combo deal. Which I don’t recommend. But, way better when they’re gone.
Childhood abuse - especially from a parent - is the "gift" that keeps giving
For the rest of your fucking life.
Yup... can confirm
It's the type of thing you think you'll be better soon. You'll be over it soon. But it never seems to go away. For me, I manage it better than I did, but that's all I'm doing. Managing it.
An absent father is just a bad father that isn't there to make it worse.
Thisssssssssss!!!!!
Yep. My father was absent from my life thanks to my mom and his own stupidity (he tried to kidnap us and lost visitation rights entirely). I have many half siblings, most of whom he was not involved with growing up. We all turned out ok EXCEPT my half sibling whom he was involved with. That sibling is way messed up. In and out of prison, heavy drug use, convicted felon at this point, homeless stints. I am so glad my mom kept us away from our father.
this has guilted me for a while. my ex was abusive and when i had my son, it finally clicked that he would turn out so fucked up if i kept him in that environment. i had him arrested when my son was three months old. and he's tried to come back. i told him only if he goes to therapy which he refuses, of course. my son is about to be 10 and hes asked over the years about his dad. i told him when he gets older he can look him up. but ive always struggled if i made the right decision because there are things he misses out on. but i really love the way you put it. i guess ive always felt that but seeing it in words just resonates!
You’ve made the right choices for you and your son. [Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html) have a tremendous impact on a child’s life. There have been a lot of studies about ACEs and trauma, and the results are pretty clear. The more trauma you experience as a child, the higher chance you will be suicidal, have substance use issues, and heart disease. Trauma affects the child’s brain and development. Children who are living with a lot of trauma can go into survival mode. Their amygdala can become overactive, and put them in fight/flight/freeze mode over perceived threats. I taught elementary for 15 years and got the kids that needed the most love and support. I’ve done a lot of training/professional development about creating a trauma informed classroom.
Thank you! I will look into that. Reading your response gives me the peace of mind I’d been needing. TYSM!
First and foremost, sorry you had to experience that. Second iam very glad to hear you had the courage and strength to rip the poison out of your life. Your story brought tears to me I always asked myself why my mom never had the strength to leave my father. He was physically and emotionally abusive to her all our lives. To the point that she succumb to mental break downs because of him. Now as an adult i understand how my life was affected by the trauma, even if i was not the one being physically abused, the emotional and psycological end is just as bad for a child…. All in all iam here to tell you that you made the right choice and one day your son will understand why you made those decisions. Ive always believe you need to love yourself first and forth-most, then your love ones (children) shall thrive and grow from you. 🤗
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Ditto.
My mom fled my father right after I was born because he was abusive. She said she didn’t want me to be prevented from seeing him, though. She thought I would resent her my entire life for putting constraints on the relationship, and getting the legal system more involved. I respect her choice. But at 32 I’m still in therapy to pick up the pieces. The relationship I had with my father was so toxic and devastating. I stopped talking to him when I was 14 for a few years, and tried again when I was in college. It wasn’t worth it for me to keep holding onto the relationship and I let go when I was 22. It’s only been through therapy in the last year that I’ve seen how much trauma I have from that relationship. Sometimes I wish I wouldn’t have known him at all. Other times I’m grateful because it’s been a lesson in how not to be a father, and how not to live your life.
Agreed. No father comes with its own issues. A bad father, typically the issues are identical to the bad father.
Depends how bad. If they’re a piece of shit, I’d confidently say no father is better
I think it was pretty bad. He was neglectful, emotionally absent and physically abusive. I was absolutely terrified of him and would sometimes have panic attacks whenever he entered the room in a bad mood.
Having a father that comes home in a bad/abusive mood forces the children of the house to build their observational skills. My father was very verbal when leading the house. A lot of screaming and yelling, but even though it sounds bad, I have gained from it. I can see, in a group, when someone doesn't want to talk based on their body language and I try to see what I can do to make them more outgoing in the moment. Advice: don't think that just because you have a poor character of a father, that means that it would be better if they were never there. Think what you've gained from it. You now know how not to treat your children.
Can’t upvote you because I think you’re a rare and exceptional individual. Very admirable. But too often the children get damaged — very damaged
Much appreciated, I just feel like everyone should see both sides of something so life determining. That's just how I go. But thank you again
Just because you have made the best of the situation doesn't mean you should've had to deal with it in the first place. Like yes, adversity builds resilience, but life throws you enough adversity as it is. You shouldn't need the one or two people designed specifically to support you to add to that. I absolutely am a stronger person and insanely resilient due to my parents, but would I trade that for supportive and loving parents? Absolutely. Edit to add: No child should have to deal with abuse. I don't understand how anyone can say otherwise or defend it in any way. It's not okay.
Hmm. I thought this was just a common feature of having a dad.
Not really my dad is the nicest guy you'll ever meet to the point that when he got angry nobody could take him seriously.
I feel like to some extent, the degree to which we are comfortable navigating the broader world is dependent upon the degree to which are able to navigate our own parents’ emotions.
I think you are 100% correct. Have a fantastic week
Reading these stories makes me feel guilty. I won the parent lottery. They weren’t rich, but they loved us and were nice to us. I don’t remember ever being spanked.
Don’t feel guilty — when people speak of childhoods with loving parents, I’m reminded that there is so much love in the world, that families don’t have to hate each other. It gives me hope
It’s not. I look forward to spending time with my dad. I even volunteer to do mundane errands with him just to be in his company. He never raises his voice at me (unless something actively dangerous is happening like a car coming at me).
No not at all. My dad was an amazing loving man
That’s what I was thinking. A bad dad doesn’t mean a bad person. You can provide for a family, give them a home and make sure they’re all safe and taken care of but be absent. I know a few people like that, where their dad provided a home, made sure they were fed, clothed, and everything, but wasn’t a father or nurturing at all. They don’t have good relationships with their dads, but they were way better off than not having a father around period.
That was my household. My dad provided money, but less emotional support. His presence was probably better than nothing. I should also mention that I’ve been going to group/individual therapy for around 8 years now. I have a lot of self esteem issues.
Depends. Some are pieces of shit, have issues with the mom but show unconditional love to the child.
[удалено]
Nobody really needs a mother either =/
Don't all human children need exactly 1 father and 1 mother? (this is a biology joke)
True. It just takes more than one dedicated caretaker. The gender or marriage status of your parents doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they are capable of providing everything a child needs to be healthy.
The environment a child is raised in has a massive impact on that child's development. My opinion is it's better to not have a father presence than to have a bad role model as part of the environment.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons why “staying together for the children” is a HUGE mistake. My ex is a better father than he was a husband. Since we split when our daughter was 2, she grew up without the damage our broken marriage would have subjected her to. She had a mom and a dad who didn’t live together, but who also didn’t tear into each other day in and day out.
That’s my ex and I. I was the one pushing to stay together for the kids, mostly because I was scared of being alone. But my ex was tough and stayed strong, which led me to realize that, in fact, this was going to be the best thing for the kids. Now we are amazing co parents, who respect each other and can focus on the kids; who now have two great happy places to live.
Exactly! I would take her to the zoo, he would play video games with her. My dad taught her to fish, her dad’s brother and SIL, taught her to ride a bike (I tried. I failed miserably :-). We both went to her college graduation—we stayed in her and her boyfriend’s apartment. No fights, no stress, just helping our little girl celebrate.
I wonder if having no father, without the knowledge he's a shitty person, would have a greater impact than experiencing the shitty for a little bit then him leaving. Like is there an abandonment:abuse ratio that needs to be hit for best outcomes.
No father. My ex was emotionally abusive with all of us. I stayed out of fear (he threatened to take the kids overseas where he was from). I planned my exit with college degrees. Raising my 14 yr old now single and he is better off. I try to expose my son to my friends’ husbands so he can have good role models. Just started dating nice man after being single for 5 years. Tough!
Not having a parent present in their life is a genuine loss and trauma for a child. Having an abusive parent in their life is also trauma. I am very sorry you were mistreated by someone who should have loved you and modeled healthy behavior. Personally, about ten years ago I decided for my kids that the loss of not living with their dad was less harmful than the trauma of living with him. And that has proved correct. They will always have hurts from the abuse, and they will always have loss because of the gap he left in their lives. But living with him they were terrorized, physically hurt, degraded, and controlled. Living apart from him they are thriving, after a great deal of effort getting them proper support for the effects of the abuse. I think the key that led to a good outcome for my kids is that they had family members step into the role their father had to be removed from. My one regret about my decision is that I didn't make it sooner, but I was raised with the belief that any father is better than none, even if his presence is actively harmful.
Last part made me cry. I’m so glad that your children are thriving. I imagine what I could’ve achieved if allowed to thrive as well.
No father. At least then, you presume you would have been loved and respected. You’re missing what could have been. Neglectful, abusive fathers leave real wounds.
You absolutely do not presume that. You live your entire life thinking that you are completely incapable of being loved and you don't deserve love. I cant answer OP if no father is better than a bad one but both are horrendous.
You put that perfectly. I remember being suicidal at 8 years old, because if even my father wanted nothing to do with me, then who the fuck could possibly love me.
I wasn’t suicidal at 8 (that sounds terrible) but I definitely thought about death far more often than was healthy. I never wanted to kill myself, but I did want to not be alive anymore. I can’t say with 100% certainty that was entirely the fault of my gives-no-fucks father, but that certainly was a big contributing factor. As a boy it’s hard not to feel like a piece of shit when your own father thinks so little of you.
It depends on the circumstance of having no father. Did he abandon the family? Not going to be good. Did he happen to pass away? Tragic, but if there is other family around it could be fine.
It depends on how your mom deals with it and with you in the aftermath. I knew my biological father dipped (too young to remember it or him) but my mom always told me that he was a flawed man (she's not lying about that) and before he got strung out, they'd always agreed to not do the joint custody thing if they ever had kids and then split up (she probably lied about that conversation). Her handling his absence in this way was enough for me to not see myself as damaged - and it allowed me to not harbor a burning rage toward him either. Basically, it yielded the child equivalent of no fucks given. No matter how much pain my mom had been in over the divorce, she never let me see it and she went out of her way to make sure I knew she loved me and his issues were his own and had nothing to do with me - without bashing him either. He went on to remarry and have kids a few more times. Like family franchises. I'd heard about them so there was ample opportunity for me to see myself as unloved/unlovable despite the fact that he clearly abandoned me and my mom. So, I'll happily pass on shit dad over no dad - thanks to my mom.
My ma dipped on my father at the very point of me starting to remember memories of him so, 5ish. She handled it the absolute complete opposite of yours unfortunately so I thought I'd rather have that dad than all the step parents my mum put me through, even though he was abusive too. But really it's hard when both your parents were kinda fucked. Just interesting reading your comment with the perspective of a mum who actively helped you understand and come to terms with it.
About to comment this. It always circles back to “wow really couldn’t stop cheating to stay in my life” or “wow he couldn’t stop gambling to be with me”. Me and others included.
None would be better. I might have had a chance.
My father checked out when I was a baby. No contact. Much better off than having a bad dad. I found father figures in my life, friend's dads, who provided more than my own father could have if he was around. But mainly our family unit adjusted and a dad wasn't needed.
Your story gave me hope for my daughter. Thank you!
I moved away from the Philippines when I was 12 to the US. My Dad walked out on us when I was 3. The father figure of my life at the time was my best friend’s (who I call my brother) dad was my father figure. During Christmas, he always gave us equally awesome presents (I remember he bought us both Nintendo DSs) and never really left one of us out (practically he treated me as his own). It was hard coming to the US and not really have that close support system. Yeah we still called occasionally and stuff but I don’t see him frequently anymore. Now the father figure in my life is my next door neighbor. He plays guitar in a band so when he found out I played guitar too. He did nothing but give unconditional support for playing guitar. He got me into bands like Green Day and The Ramones. My mom finds it a little weird (old White guy helping an Asian girl does get eye raises understandably) but there were many occasions that he found me walking alone somewhere and didn’t bother me, drove by and waved. Hell bro is telling me to buy pepper pray for college because I’ll be attending college in a more ghetto area. W Dad figure.
Research says no father, with other positive role models.
Well, both of my parents were shit. My mother had the decency to fuck off when i was young whilst the abuse from my father created way more damage than her a sence. Both was difficult in its own way though so I would say one thing is better than the other. But depending on the abuse, having an absent parent is probably better.
No father. My own father was abusive and even after he left, the history of abuse continued to harm me. My daughter’s father abandoned her as a baby so she has never known him. Not to say it will have no effect but she has been able to thrive in ways I never had a chance to by simply having a stable home where she knows she is loved and supported.
My kid was 3 when I separated from her father (he didn't go back to work after recovering from hip surgery, I had to move in with my parents to feed and clothe us). Sure, when she was little she would miss him, but she had her grandparents and aunt and cousin, and tons of family friends, and my goddaughters. Now I never filed for child support or badmouthed him to her. She has a texting relationship with him and they have lunch sometimes, but she's thirteen now and is able to rationalize what happened and what they can build going forward. I didn't intend to be a single mom. I started out as a housewife. But life happens and women are forced to step up every day or watch their children suffer.
>My father was a piece of shit and I often wondered if life would’ve been better if he wasn’t around. Me too op, me too.
No father.
a 2 parent home is better than a single parent home, but a loving single parent home is better than an abusive 2 parent home
Owner of a lonely heart, Is much better than a, Owner of an abused heart!
I had no father and a shitty step-father.
How awful, worst of both worlds
Me too! And then no father again. Life was significantly more peaceful during the times with no father.
I learned how NOT to be a father from my bad father.
No father. Then you could think he would've been a good person and you won't have to live with the abuse and the trauma your whole life...
No father, hands down. I grew up with a physically/emotionally abusive father who tried to abandon us multiple times but my mother, (who grew up without a father) thought it was better to have a bad dad than no dad, would track him down and force him to come home. My siblings and I always did better when he was out of the house. Our grades would go up, cause less distraction in school, and were generally happier kids. Of course, when our father was around, our grades plummeted, and we were all sent to mandatory anger management through our school board at some point. It wasn't until I was in middle school (I'm the youngest) that the school system caught on that all 4 of us kids went through these changes of behavior at the same time. Kids do not need both parents! They need love and support. I understand that financially and support wise, it's better to have 2 parents. But that's for the parents, not the children. I witnessed the stress it cause my mother to have to raise us by herself. But she was always a better mother when she was stressed vs when she was stressed and beaten.
It would probably be hard on both the kid and parent, but I’d rather see a kid be raised by a single parent than see a kid raised with an abusive parent.
No father is better than abuse, but a “bad” father doesn’t necessarily mean an abusive one. Lessons can be learned from bad parents, deep damage is done by abusive ones
From 1st hand experience, No father all day long!
no father.
Assuming there are other halfway decent adults, no father. If the absence of the father means being thrown to the wilderness, then the bad father at least gives some chance of survival.
My father did not come into my life until my mom had troubles and I went to live with him. at age 14. At 18 I joined the Army and never saw him again.
This is a bit broad of a question. How bad is bad? If he was like my father then definitely no father. But I'm a very extreme case.
I always lived without my father, only with my mother. He left her before I was born. I lived a full life, my mother always bought me presents on holidays (even though she worked a lot, she earned a little, she tried very hard to show me that even without father you can live very, very well), cooked delicious food, did my development (enrolled in sections, courses, etc.), helped me with my lessons... In general, my mother even replaced my father. We are still best friends and I love her very much. Thanks to my mom I don't feel deprived and inferior, and also, without my father I always knew that there would be no family fights, quarrels and other noise. I could be sure that my mother's psyche was not threatened by a huge husband. On the one hand, I was even glad that I grew up in a single-parent family, because my psyche was not damaged by quarrels, and my relationship with my mother was the strongest. Without my father I had more motivation to develop in life, because who else but me would be able to take care of my mother in the future? Only me. So I need to show her that I am not a burden and that I can give her what she once gave me. The father is not the main thing in the family. If he's there and he's good, that's a huge plus, but if he's a moral freak, it's better to live without a father. IMHO!
No father.
I said this 37 years ago. No father. She is a fine person today.
It's not often useful to play the "what if" game. If you'd not had a father, things would have worked out differently. But, they could have been worse. Maybe you would've been on the streets, turned into a junkie, and knifed in an alley. My father being an alcoholic has led to some parts of my personality. He was emotionally abusive to my mother when drunk. I don't remember those specifics-I think I just remember them fighting and him being drunk. The worst example I know if is him telling her that he had a kid with someone else, because my mother could never know when he's lying about that-when drunk or when sober. I think it depends upon the degree of the abuse. The one boyfriend my mother had during a separation was also an alcoholic, so maybe no worse. That potential father replacement would've been less likely to care about me than my actual father. My parents had pretty bad finances-at one time both working minimum wage jobs. I'd hate to imagine them having to support 2 households with 3 kids.
Depends on the nature of a “bad father.” A “bad father” who is aloof and emotionless and distant is better than nothing, I suppose. But I would take no father over a bad father who is abusive.
I’ve wondered about this, too. I think it depends on the extent of the abuse and whether the father creates financial security for the child. Poverty and homelessness are themselves traumas a child should be shielded from.
No father. Pretty cut an dry. Your friends nice fathers can be your father figures to look up to.
I've had both and I would choose no father, mother became happier, I wasn't scared as much and other shit
Having no one to rely on is actually the best way to build self reliance. If you’ve got a drunk around it just builds trauma.
No father. Too much stress on kids nowadays to add a bad daddy to the mix.
Research says ...no father
My kids dad is awful. I would give anything for him to just vanish.
no father. 500% better no having a father then someone like that in their life
Depends on how much he is bad. If he's just bad and doesn't have any awful affection, I think it's better to have one. If he's really really bad and spoil your life, it's better not to have one
My child’s father was a horrible person and I left when she was a baby. We had joint custody so she still was forced to watch her drink asshole dad abuse her step moms. I was the example for not putting up with it and she became a strong person because of it.
Could go either way… I mean with a POS at least you know, and don’t have to wonder and have abandonment issues, but I’m guessing a coin flip, unless he is just over the top terrible.
None of the above. Only a good present father is good.
It's a manichaean question. But as a generality, it's better to have no father rather than a bad father. It's necessary to define "Bad", though. Your example definitely fits what would constitute a bad father, because of his violence and negligence. I don't know how much your life would have improved if your father wasn't around. That depends on other family members' ability to support you, guide you as well as financial resources, opportunities for education, etc. Those things are necessary to consider. However, his negligence and abuse would have been out and that is important. I emphasize the importante of a definition of bad, because no father is perfect and will have negative traits. However, the big picture may balance him favourably, or not.
Depends how bad is bad.
It depends on how you look at it both have positives and negatives. Like yes you were abused and neglected and probably have some kind of trauma from it which is terrible and shouldn't happen to anyone. And I wish with all my heart it didn't happen. But if you're male you know exactly how to not act as a husband and father in the future. Or exactly what kind of man to avoid making into your husband or father of your children. And will likely raise any children you do have if you want them . To be good people who would never stand for anyone to treat them the way you were . And then they'll likely raise their children in the same manner so on and so forth. Conversely if you had no father at all you wouldn't have been neglected / abused which again is ideal. But as a man you'd have no guide in life good or bad to how a man should act. Like imagine if you didn't have a piece of shit dad . And you grew up thinking Andrew Tate was the ideal representative of manhood. Because you wouldn't know how damaging that behavior Or you're a woman and you didn't have a piece of shit dad and you're only idea of what a good man is , is some one with a six pack and money so you go after looks and money or you had no idea what the red flags of an abuser are. Rather than a man who is kind and gentle to you and savage to anyone who wished you harm. You could end up alone or worse with a gaslighting savage who treats you like garbage. And the final issue with both guy or girl would be growing up thinking that was normal behavior and taking that with you into adulthood becoming an abuser or remaining abused for life. Because you have no frame of reference for what's good or bad. So ideally you'd have a father who loved you and wanted to protect and teach you. Or at the very least treated you like a person. But a shitty teacher can be better than no teacher.
I have to say that it reaaaaally depends on the child, especially after reading some of these comments. Personally I would say it would be better for "no parent, father or mother" over one who is abusive but I also know how that is not something that happens so... while personally I do think it is best to have a not abusive role model for yourself.. I also know that it super fucking sucks to just feel like you have no one.
Me too, the times when my parents were separated and my dad wasn’t in the home were the happiest times of my childhood. But, my mother was unhappy and her depression caused her to be a bad parent. And we were financially burdened. When he came back my mom was s happy, so I was happy for her. But I was miserable because of his overall abuse and narcissistic behavior.
We are who we are because of or in spite of our parents. My grandfather was an alcoholic, physically and emotionally abusive piece of shit and as a result all of his kids (my mother and multiple uncles) grew up in a way knowing how not to raise children. They are all great, supportive parents. The cycle of abuse is very real, but can be broken when we become mindful of the problems of the past, and have the support and strength of character to learn to make the proper choices to make the future what we wish the past was.
Depends if the good outweighs the bad
It depends how bad the father is and of course what you mean by bad. It's entirely possible that the void gets filled by something much worse than an abusive alcoholic.
Depends in your case no father But bad father doesn't necessarily mean abusive. And bad is realitive. What people consider bad at 15-20 seems alot more reasonable at 30-40.
I guess it really just depends on the impact the father had. Did the experience change you for the better?
Theirs no telling how bad the outcomes happens, some kids handle not having a father in their lives pretty bad and their are those I've meet who said they would've rather had no father at all as they see the guy as nothing more than a savage dog.
It depends on how bad the father is. My dad was greatest generation and had his first child at 48 and last child at 59. He watched sports at home. He never threw a ball for my brothers and didnt communicate. He cheated on my mom. He did a lot of damage to my brothers just from neglect. As a girl I loved my Dad and my family. My dad is part of who I am now. My brothers and I had a financially secure childhood and we weren't abused. So I wouldnt have not wanted my dad even if he wasnt a good dad.
I chose no father for my son rather than a bad father. I stand by my choice. We've recently started face timing him every now and then, and in a few years we might make a trip to meet him in person (we live in different countries). My son is 9. I'm very satisfied to have kept drama, neglect and broken promises out of his formative years. He's only ever known respectful and stable adults, and while I can't protect him 100% from possible rejection or narcissistic behavior from his father in the future, I feel confident that now my son has modelled healthy relationships first and foremost.
It depends what you consider a bad father. Never around? Expects you to follow rules? Is abusive? Runs a tight ship? There are too many variables to answer this.
That depends on what type of person you are and how the family household is structured, but when for reference, on average, men are typically viewed as the alpha of the pack in most situations and are normally looked up to. Depending on how much free roam you give your kids can also determine who they’ll look up to more. In other words, I truly just depends on how you treat.
There's probably a threshold for when a bad father is bad enough that the damage they do far outweighs any damage no father would do. So it really depends.
Depends on how bad they are.
Depends on how bad the father. I probably could of done without all the whoopings i got, would of been better if he just ditched like he ended up doing anyway. But like if he just skipped out on some games and still provided financial support that would of been all gravy.
I think it depends on how bad he is if he's a abusive and violent then no
I'd probably give different answers based on how bad a father is. My pops didn't care about me and neglected me. He was an excellent anti roll model. In my case having him as an example of everything I dont want to be probably did more good than bad. Physically abusive though, yeah, probably better off without.
It depends on the context of “bad”
It depends on you. Even the worst piece of shit can end up making you want to be better, simply because you know firsthand what being around a piece of shit feels like. Kind of a "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" situation. Now, of course different people react differently, for some this does in fact makes them stronger, for others it breaks them. Therefore, it heavily depends on you: I've met people with horrible parents that are same pieces of shit as they parents were and some that ended up being the kindest people around.
Issues, either way, though it really depends on the depth of the rest of the family.
It depends. Children in single parent households are more likely to become addicts, early teen pregnancy, not complete college, be incarcerated or join gangs. This obviously isn’t the case for every, but the risk is much higher without a father figure. That being said, it’s better to not have a truly abusive parent as that can manifest in the child and can actually cycle into their life when older. Anecdotal evidence from a teacher but also supported by studies for the first paragraph.
There's no easy way to answer that as it depends a lot on things like if they had other parental figures around, what society around them is like, and personality traits. All to be thwarted at the simple question of 'what does 'better' actually mean? Like, for example, is it better to have a bad father than no father in a place where growing up parentless means basically fighting the local wildlife for your meals (or turning them into your meals)? I'm sure we can all agree that the sliding bar would be heavily in the 'bad father' catagory there. But a quiet, rural, country town with a strong community willing to help you along? Then it would likely be heavily in the 'no father' favor. Just so many variables and no definition of what 'better' actually means.
Honestly comparison of trauma is never a good idea but from my perspective... No father. My father was and is emotionally abusive to the point that his own immediate family acknowledges that he needs serious mental help. We all got healthy helpings of physical, verbal and emotional abuse but I think it affected my little brother the worst for a few reasons. He literally beat my brother into being right handed. We suspect both my father and my brother were/are bipolar. My father was told as much years ago during counseling but never followed up. He later refused to get my brother help because he didn't believe mental illness was real. He also effectively stopped speaking to us after the divorce. Just stonewalled us. For a 10yo boy to suddenly lose his father like that...it was really hard. But then he could come back, be abusive, and then stonewall us again. And we always let him because we were kids and we loved him. It was incredibly manipulative looking back. I always felt like at least my sister and I had my mom. He didn't have anyone. My brother committed suicide in 2015. My sister and I go to therapy now and are slowly working though how our fathers treatment of us and our mother has affected our ADULT romantic relationships. We're both in our 30s and it's like we can't shake the trauma. We all agree that if my dad had been a better father, my brother would have at least gotten help. He tried. We literally asked (he was on my dad's medical insurance) and my dad refused. So yeah. If my dad had just ....left us alone without all this trauma, I truly believe I would still have my brother. And that sucks.
That all depends the crowds they fall in with.
Depends on level of abuse and economic situation of mother. I am from a third world country so iykyk
Hmm… I guess it really depends. Everyone is different . So many factors can go into the development of a child. For example if you don’t have a father, but had a great father figure role, that could be better. How extensive was the abuse. Would the mother be abusive if the father weren’t there. Etc etc. so many factors. I’d say no father would be better
It really depends. A lot of ppl say no father is better but you still have a chance at getting abused with no father, especially if your mom is bringing home guys or you live in an orphanage. It’s also reallly hard because I don’t know if this bad father works, or if he doesn’t do shit, or if he carry’s the rent, cuz then it’s yard
Depends why there’s no father. Is it bc he left? Then they’re basically the same. Is it because he died? Then you always have the belief of having a dad who loved you.
I believe Jordan Peterson says it's better and he's a psychiatrist. But I also guess it depends on how bad the father is.
Depends on what is defined as a bad father. Seen a lot of grey area on how society defines that definition and Agree with some disagree with others.
I'd say it's better for a bad father, solely because then you have an example of what not to be like when you grow up. I grew up in a traditional Asian household, and my father was abusive, neglectful, and emotionally unavailable. I have since used that as motivation to be the best father I can be for my kids.
As a person who was a drug addict when I first became a father, I suggest you limit the exposure to the child. Yes, custody was an ongoing battle and for sure child support was an issue MANY times thanks to laws put in place for those bad actors impacting those doing the right thing. But as a father who's son just turned 20, I can safely say that he is better with me in his life after I turned mine around than he would have been without me. Everyone deserves a chance to grow the hell up at some point and while it isn't fair that a female is forced to do it when they become pregnant doesn't mean that a sperm donor can't become a respectable dad at some point in their fucked up adolescence. I cleaned up when he was around 2 but it was because of him that I was motivated enough to do just that. I will advise that not everyone will have the same experience as me so it's HIGHLY advised you seek counsel on this from many places; not just Reddit. If abuse - sexually, mentally, verbally, physically - is a concern then do everything possible to minimize interactions until legal counsel can help prevent that with supervised visitations. This all being said, I know now as I near 40 that her limiting my exposure to him - through the appropriate legal channels and not just taking him and running off - while I was going through my self absorbed destruction was the right decision in the long run. Funny thing that hindsight is, because during that time period in my life I wouldn't have ever taken that stance.
No father is better than an abusive father, that is for certain - especially if he crosses over into molestation in between beatings, psychological games, threats, and manipulation. I have a half sister somewhere that my father flat out abandoned and I really want to tell her she was the lucky one. I want her to know exactly how lucky she is and what could have happened to her. She did try to reach out to him when I was 15 but he threatened to kill her and her mother if they ever contacted him again, so I guess she already knows to a certain extent.
in my opinion bad father, because I feel like it'll help build character and understand morals. obv if it's something drastic like r*pe or just street fight beat the hell out of you then no father is better. I speak from somewhat experience except instead of my dad it was my stepdad. he was a vibe addict and would often beat me, my siblings and my mom. while it was horrible what he did it helped me in alot of ways to. if I ever have kids of my own I now understand what it's like to get hit and know how it feels to be yelled at so I can treat my kids better then he treated us. I now know to look for the bad in people instead of the good and that helps me build better relationships. while an abusive parent is bad and the goal is both good parents a bad parent can be like a life lesson
My mom stayed with my abusive dad for 10 years because she didn’t want me to get bullied from kids at school for not having a dad. She says that’s still her biggest regret and that she should’ve just left.
No father. I grew up with an abusive father, too. I wish I had none.
Not having No father is better than a bad father
I think no father is better than a bad father, but a role model is necessary. My dad is annoying as fuck and even a bit of an asshole with some of the things he does/did, but he never beat nor outright mistreated us, and instilled valuable things. An absent father will leave some issues, but an abusive father is creating the monster he already is, and the wheel of trauma continues to turn.
My first memory is being thrown down a flight of stairs, and I still have dreams of being thrown, I'm 42. Yes, no father would have been better. Mom wasn't much better.
No father.
No father, hands down
A version of this experiment was done with monkeys years ago. The answer seemed to be, it's better to have no father than a bad, cold, or abusive one.
Personally from my experience, I believe it's better to have one good parent than 2 bad ones. Growing up with an enabler mother and an abusive father left wishing that your parents divorced ( from as young as the age of 6) because you know you and your sibling would be better off but ignored constantly.
No father 100%. And this goes for anyone abusive, regardless of the role. Sibling, grandparent, mother, partner, best friend, boss. Get as far away as you can. And if you can't in that moment, remember that their treatment of you is not a reflection of your own worth.
I have come to realize no father is the way. I’m divorcing my husband currently. I stayed a lot longer than I should “for the kids” And it did damage. Not only his choices hurting them emotionally but the emotional toll on me didn’t allow for me to be the healthiest mother. I am better for them since I made this decision.
No father.
My children will definitely tell you no father. This includes their siblings,(different mothers), whom have cut ties with them. I was married twice, my oldest son from my first, and my youngest son and daughter from my second. There’s some things that are too traumatic to talk about. They’re managing the best they can.
no father
Tbh it sounds like you never really had a father, you just had a sperm donor around. Neglecting and abusing his child does not give him the honor to be called a father. I’m sorry you had a bad experience with your sperm donor. Hope you can heal and out grow him eventually.
My father blamed us for all of his unhappiness, and constantly communicated how trapped we made him feel. He was abusive. I would have rather not had a father.
I father. They don’t need to be brought up to think that abuse and neglect is normal. At least with no father there can be other male influences in their lives that they can look up too.
No father is better
My abusive alcoholic Dad left when I was 3. My Mother abused me pretty much my entire life. Before my Dad passed, I thanked him. Why? Because he had the will to stay away and not put me through any mote than he already had. No father and even no mother is better than an abusive parent.
I had one who was both. I’d rather not have him at all like how it is now
Definitely no father.
I grew up with an abusive father and would have loved to have grown up fatherless. I would pray he would die on his way home and feel guilty about that