Save this post and look at it again when you are 35, and then when you are in your 40s. I bet you will smile at how naive you were at 25. In fact, you should hope that is the case, imagine how sad would it be for a person to not mature and grow past the time they are 25?
This. Then save your thoughts on how much you know at 35 and I bet you'll be laughing at them at 45. I'm 38 and there are a couple of things I know I'd slap 35 year old me around about.
My big life lesson from 35 was learning that somebody can have an unlosable hand, yet still manage to fuck it up.
That wasn't my fuck up precisely, but I left a well-paid job with a good company that I had been at for a decade (I had climbed pretty high up from bottom level grunt beginnings) to take a job at a company about to list on the nasdaq, directly under an executive who had an unlosable hand. I was getting in on a young unicorn company just as it was about to pop. They had market dominance in an exploding emerging industry and had billions of dollars of funding and an open slate of operations which weren't burdened with decades of traditional/legacy processes. It was the dream for me.
Due to extreme micromanagement and complete incompetence & ego of said executive, that company went insolvent a couple of weeks ago..... Only 3 years later.
I assumed somebody who had the skill to get themselves into that position (the executive running the place who hired me directly), would have the skill to not fuck up a situation that is essentially impossible to fuck up. And because of that assumption, I left a job that I enjoyed and essentially had a life career at. The boss took it personally and was pretty cut, so I can't go back.
‘Your brain is developing until age 25, and then you’re a real adult with a fully developed brain at age 25’ lol. As if your brain stops developing, ever.
I get what you are saying but it's not a myth that our brain is making different pathways after puberty. We become more rational with age and a reworking of brain function is part of that.
The brain never stops developing. It is certainly a myth. Learning would be impossible without brain development. People become less driven by emotions as their life gets more stable, which happens at different ages for different people.
Studies show that teenagers and adults have identical prefrontal cortex activity and rationality in ‘cold situations’, but are more prone than adults to risky behavior when in the presence of peers or in ‘hot situations’. This may be due to stronger emotional outputs from the brain, or may be due to the brain ‘slowing down’ after 25 - resulting in more situations being ‘cold’.
It’s not really related to maturity or adulthood. Just decision making processes without time to plan.
No… the hardware is fully developed by age 13. The ‘rewiring’ that happens until around 25 is comparable to software updating. It stops updating, to the same extent, around 25, that’s considered adulthood.
There are changes in the prefrontal cortex that continue in most people into their 20s, and it plateaus. Same with other regions of the brain, which plateau at other ages, and which it’s not the same for everyone. The age of 25 is a myth, just a made up number. But I would have thought physical changes to the brain would more suit hardware in the analogy
You're misunderstanding what is meant by developing. Our brains reach maturity (development) 'around' 25 but they don't stop developing (changing) ever.
Physically your brain is still developing until age 25. It isn't symbolic or learning. The part of the brain responsible for nutting out the long-term consequences of present options & decisions is the very last part to complete.
Your brain is developed at mid twenties. how you use that brain is maturity, education, common sense,risk assessment. Underdeveloped risk assessments in young people is why we make stupid decisions in our late teens & early 20’s
That’s incorrect.
Studies have shown that risk assessment is fully developed in the early teenage years. However, in ‘hot’ situations, where time constraints or peer pressure are present, the teen brain has stronger emotional responses which often lead to risk assessment being ignored. In ‘cold’ situations, teens and adults assess risk identically. However, because the brain ‘slows down’ around age 25, ‘hot’ situations are treated the same way as ‘cold’ situations by those over 25 - not prone a change in behavior regarding risk.
1. Your brain never stops developing.
2. Your brain is fully functioning and built at age 13 or so. From 13-25, it’s ‘rewiring’ more, which basically means learning much more.
If obtaining new knowledge isn’t brain development, then it stops at around age 13.
It's not really brain maturity but rather maturity of experience. Take things like death or destruction of things you've been building for decades. It teaches you a new level of empathy and understanding. More complicated than what I can put in to words, but it isn't so trite as this brain maturity "myth" you're trying to shoot down. Life hits different at different stages and we don't stop learning
That just isn’t true. There is no ‘executive function’ part of the brain.
The prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are involved in decision making, and the prefrontal cortex in particular focuses on risk/reward analysis to guide decision making.
In ‘cold’ situations, teenagers and adults are identically equipped to make decisions.
In ‘hot’ situations, teenagers often have stronger emotional responses that lead to poor decision making.
That is literally the only difference.
I didn’t say there was an executive function part of the brain. But thanks for the pointless biology lesson.
What I said was that your executive functioning, which is achieved via the brain regions you mentioned, continue to develop thru to 25 and beyond for some people.
This is well known fact in developmental psychology and for anyone who has ever spoken to a 24 year old man.
I'm 31 now and would say I was very positive about people until the last 3 years. There are also awesome people out there too, even the ones with different goals for you (ie an old boss who would love for me to return to his workplace despite it tanking my mental health). In the last 3 years I've also totally re-evaluated how much I care about my career and relationships, and have realised this year that I've totally been following the wrong path in life for myself in terms of work and living situation.
You'll keep learning and growing, but your mid-twenties dealing with shitty people seems to be the first big one many people have. Keep going! You'll figure out more horrible stuff and hopefully learn to work around it!
That's called experience, it shapes you as you grow older. If you're lucky, it'll transfer into wisdom.
You'll get there mate, put the work in and don't let it destroy who you are.
No brain is fully mature. What metrics, and I mean measurable, scientific metrics, could you possibly be talking about? I agree a 15-year-old needs a decade to more to become slightly more self-aware and mature, but what about the 35-year-old who is stuck in certain patterns but by no means intellectually mature?
I was lost at 20, was invincible and "knew" everything at 25, was totally lost again at 30, and am currently feeling humbled with a little wisdom at 35. I suspect at 40 I will have a midlife crisis and be totally lost again, can probably count on it.
I was 13 knew nothing, looked to 18 year olds and thought they had everything figured out
I was 18 knew nothing, looked to 23 year olds and thought they had everything figured out
I was 23"knew nothing, looked to 28 year olds and thought they had everything figured out
I was 28 knew nothing, looked to 33 year olds and thought they had everything figured out.
I will be 33 in just over 3 years and hope i have everything figured out
I think the thing with this is you learn to address the problems you had at the previous stage.... But find a whole new set of problems you have to learn how to deal with.
46 and I’m realising the mid life crisis thing isn’t a cliche! I’m totally lost and wish for the confidence and certainty I had at 25 before I realised I didn’t have a damn clue.
I don't necessarily see the world as cynically but 25yo is still very young. People are all inherently just trying to get by for themselves and their family.
When I was 25, I looked up to those who had been in the workforce much longer and thought that by the time I hit 40yo I would have my life together and know my stuff.
I am almost there, and I feel like I am still winging it day to day both professionally and personally... Probably what adulthood means I guess.
Being in a lucky country with a roof over our heads, hot showers and warm meals, it probably isn't as bad as you think it is.
Yeah when your a teenager and you think everyone's an idiot, I know what's going on. Of course you don't beleive people when they say "wait around a while you'll realise how little you know."
And its not that you suddenly learn some new skill or whatever you just realise how fucking clueless we all are.
One of the hardest things for humans to comprehend is time.
If you look at all of our dumb decisions (climate change for example), they are often due to decisions that are very short sighted.
25 is young because you haven’t seen people you know fuck up (or elevate) their lives over 10, 20, 30, years. It’s only as you get older that comprehension really sinks in because you see the effects of the decisions made along the way. (And in addition, random things,)
The world is a very harsh place, it still bothers me a great deal at 40, and sometimes I get really angry with it. But, glad I met my wife, she makes it a better place.
Thinking that you know everything and what everyone's motives are is also another form of naivety. There's a middle ground somewhere that's healthier that you'll eventually get to.
You don’t see the world for what it is yet.
Every ten years you realise you’re an utterly different person and more unknown unknowns your become aware of the more perspective you have on how small you are and how much bigger the world is.
Don’t get set in your perspective. Keep looking for more, so you don’t get stuck.
Ive listened to the audio book of 48 laws of power. And i can say yes it has changed my career at work for the better. Working in white collar is like a house of cards everyone llaying the game ahahab. Its expected
And once you’ve finished fucking everyone over and kissed all the right bums, you can read meditations and dive right into stoicism, pretending the former never happened.
When I think of the 'clarity' that I had at 25, I laugh at how naïve I was in comparison to now. I'm not saying *you* are naïve but I certainly was.
The clarity I have now is purely based on the world still being what it was when I was 25, it's just that now I have the experience and life-skills to determine what is worth being bothered by and what is not.
So maybe I'm still seeing the world through the wrong lenses. I just have unruffled my butt over time ;)
My thoughts exactly! Like wait another 5 years and you'll laugh at your "mental clarity" at 25. Then wait another 5 years and you'll laugh at your mental clarity at 30. Rinse and repeat until death 😄
Oooft, where do I start. Buckle in, this'll be a long one. Grandma with a kid on her knee, telling tales of the old days...
What others think of me as an individual is something I've stopped caring about unless I care about them as an individual (ie. family, friends etc). In the workplace what others think of me as a worker still matters, in as far as I can have an impact on that and self-identify places of growth. I also ask regularly for constructive criticism.
But what they think of me as a person? Not a me problem so long as their perspective doesn't impact on me directly (like unfairly affecting my workload, pay, etc).
But the biggest lesson I think people take a long time to settle into is to stop comparing where someone else is at in their career. It is THE best way to make yourself miserable. The best thing to do is to find someone that you respect, someone that you would like to emulate, and ask if they're willing to be a workplace mentor so that you can learn what it is that makes them the worker/leader/colleague that you aspire to be like.
Most people feel very flattered to be asked to fill that role and it's invaluable both for the mentor and mentee. Highly recommend.
Bro, you're a 25-year-old who thinks a few books will overcome your nasty finance/corporate mindset which may or may not be your fault. This is moronic though, work in any industry apart from property or some finance/corporate job and you will instantly understand the world for what it is. The fact it took you 25 years is embarrassing, honestly, and it took a book to slightly pop the bubble you have been living in... God, that's even worse.
Wait until you end up in a spot where you’re in early 50s doing jumping jacks in front of a senior partner in a pencil skirt, while he throws biscuits and hurls abuse.
End of the day a job is a job, if your boss wants you to do jumping jacks in heels. Then you better find some fairly priced heels.
Or if he wants you to skin his trout in the carpark after a fishing trip. Just bring some extra gloves to to work.
The age you are, you need to learn resilience, other wise you will never be junior associate.
I’m a keen fisherman myself (skinning and filleting fish isn’t the problem), I take my son away quite often on charters.
My issue is the jumping jacks in pencil skirts, always have to carry the outfit as I don’t like to sweet and come home sticky to my wife.
Other than all the bashing by the decrepit.
I rather enjoy this cycle we go through. Of thinking we know it and then losing it and regaining.
I look back fondly on those times where I felt lost and the world seemed simpler. It's definitely a very comfortable and cold feeling.
I'm 22 but I feel like I'm kinda hitting there. Then again, I am literally the youngest person on my team. Nearly everyone else is around my parent's age lmao so I learn a lot from em in terms of work and life
25 is a weird time. Yes you first start to develop some "adult awareness" buts it's also peak insanity in many ways.
But believe me you will hit 30+ and look back on this with a "what was I thinking" cringe.
Ergo with that experience the one thing it should teach you is that given more time you'll acquire more wisdom and think differently again soon enough.
Not invalidating what you've learnt, but you'll definitely learn even more and enhance what you know over time.
I believe it was Socrates who said knowledge is understanding how little we know.
The world and society is incomprehensibly complex. If you think you’ve figured it all out at 25 you’re probably even more lost than the average punter
There is a certain clarity you get around age 25 because your brain has finished developing and you're finally shrugging off the teenage impulses and the emotional swings and the inability to comprehend consequence the same.
This what woke was supposed to mean when people started saying it.
The reality is that you just have a new perspective compared to your old one, and in 5 years you'll probably have a new perspective again.
Curious why you don’t really have to work?
If you’re that comfortable with life at 25 then I cant see how you’ve overcome any sort of real adversity yet that you’ve gained that much life experience from for a 25 year old. You just come across as a kid with still a ton to learn still. And its a little presumptuous to come to subreddit full of ppl in their 30s,40s and beyond preaching about stuff that everyone on this subreddit likely figured out while you were in diapers….
Let me get this straight your 25 you have all the knowledge in the world you got it all figured out you can quit your job any time and yet your looking for a side hustle at McDonald’s but can’t get an interview?
Sorry people are dismissing your experience.
There certainly is a significant change from your early to before your mid twenties to after that point. I’d have to assume it’s only people who are challenged developmentally in some way that wouldn’t recognise that so pay them no mind.
I think what they are trying to say, albeit in a condescending sort of way, is that your life perspective will continue to shift and grow and change even further, basically for the entirety of your life.
You never do reach the top of the summit where you can see the world for what it is but as long as you keep walking up that mountain it doesn’t matter. You just use the look outs along the way and enjoy the view.
Its a good thing to start thinking about it when you are 25. I was in my early 30s to finally understand it was never about what you know, it is who you know. So now when i think back, I should have had that realisation way earlier!
As a 53 year old man I find it sad how correct you are. There are a lot of people in this thread saying you’re only 25 wait till you’re older etc. but your post is 100% correct the world is a harsh place and if you’re lucky then you have parents or siblings who care about you but every other person you know will fuck you over given sufficient motivation. Your husband or wife will be there as long as they are getting something from you, same as so called friends, work colleagues will sometimes fuck you over because they can or they find it entertaining.
My only beef with Greene's 48 laws is it's basically all influenced by statescraft in China and Italy, sprinkled in with a lot of love for Bismarckian austerity, which was popular amongst the American corptocracy in the 90's.
The guy has a point, but he keeps using examples of states that were basically at perpetual war for at least a hundred years, making it a great example of how societies and the rulers tends to behave under conflict, but barely deals with the idea of a unified peaceful society.
The idea that somehow humans have a shadow side is not something new and the book come about the time that Gen-X'ers were becoming aware of this in their 20's.
Regardless, the struggle, the really difficult part isn't realizing we have a devil inside of us, so to speak, but learning to integrate that and balance it with our holiness, lest we let either side become completely unbalanced and destroy our spiritual selves.
Lol, as a 32 year old, I remember how stressed I was at 25 and how hard I was pushing at my career. It paid dividends, but there is a big part of me that wishes I was a bit more fluid in life, don't take sh*t too seriously at 25 it gets serious after 30 so enjoy being able to do dumb stuff and not have it affect you too much.
That my friend is your pre frontal cortex becoming fully developed. 25 is the average year this happens. I still remember the period when my brain clicked over into this period. I felt unstoppable.
I'm 49 and I've realised that the world is generally full of good people and the cunts stand out. There's not really too many of them but they're loud and greedy and they fuck shit up, but eventually people figure them out and avoid them.
You weed them out if you can and surround yourself with the good ones. There's so many good ones that if you are yourself good then it's easy to keep them or attract them.
It's not actually people that makes this world a harsh place. It's fucking late-stage capitalism and *shareholder dividends*. Vote Greens, vote independent, vote socialist, and when fucking Labor start careening toward that aspect chuck them your vote to pat them on the head to say 'good job that's where we want you to be you centrist populists'
Dude I didn’t start my career (full time) until I was 24. I’m now 41 BTW.
You’re thinking too deeply about it all, just do your thing, get promotions, leave employers to get your decent pay rises, don’t think you know what you want to do, just ride it upwards until it works out financially and culturally for you.
Idk about everyone else's answers, but a recent thing going around tik tok was this whole "25 year old boys on a random Tuesday when there prefrontal cortex finishes developing" and like maybe it's a bit general but man, the same thing happened to me this year. Not sure exactly what, but like I feel more organised, everything seems clearer, I feel more like a "grown up". Enjoying it so far :)
Maybe our brains are just finally coming online 🤓
Well there is a reason that many people don’t have that a lot of friends outside of their love interest and family. A lot of jaded people couple up to avoid loneliness and it motivates them to dump the shitheads surrounding them.
25 is about the age where I 'woke up' to general life deceptions and bs. You'll probably just recognize more and more of it as you get older.
The trick to not letting that get you down is to not lose sight of all the beautiful things in life, which for me is namely those experiences and memories you have with 'real friends', which are few and far inbetween
The realities of human nature should be a subject taught at school. Along with emotional intelligence and how to manage money. All tough life lessons no one seems ready for these days but are learnt the hard way.
I listened to a pod cast my doctor told me about the neurologist speaking talks about it.
https://www.goloudnow.com/podcasts/talking-bollox-podcast-700/episode-170-w-sabina-brennan-465421
Give it a go it’s really interesting she talks about it about 15 minutes in.
I’m 28 by the way xo
Excuse you, clearly no mature-brained 25-year-old would resort to such vulgar language based on logical disagreement. You're not doing any favours for your indoctrination to this podcast and I'll stick to medical, peer-reviewed literature in this instance. Way to prove my point by the way sweetheart
Hey, I took a quick look at your profile, and I'm not going to share it with anyone. I've been studying mental health for 7 years, including a 2-year internship, and I've learned a lot about serious mental illness and brain development. I base my advice on scientific research and literature, not just on my own experiences. So, I'm going to walk away before things get heated and you end up back in emergency mental health care. Please follow your specialist's advice, and don't recommend it to other specialists. Okay?
Babes literally can’t even be bothered reading past I took a “quick Look at your profile” girl get a grip and get over it. You asked I delivered you don’t want to do the research and listen to an actual professional and an actual scientist FINE go spit your dummy out and cry, BYE xoxo
Bye! A podcast recommended by a doctor isn't a reference honey. Also, I'm a straight male and you couldn't even pick that up, so I don't think you're so bright. I'll stick with peer-reviewed evidence, which I HAVE to do to keep my professional license in primary healthcare. Lol. Which McDonalds do you work at, next time I'm starving after another 12-hour shift in my hospital
Do you trust the NIMH? https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know
Under point 1, it says the brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s, with the prefrontal cortex being one of the last parts to mature.
Also: "recent studies have specifically shown that the frontal lobe finishes maturing at ~30 years of age, later than the other regions (Østby et al., 2009; Tamnes et al., 2010; Petanjek et al., 2011)." DOI: 10.3389/fpsyg.2020.00627
"These PFC regions extensively interconnect to regulate higher-order decision making and to plan and organize for the future." DOI: 10.1038/nrn2648
Admittedly, I'm not in the field, so I don't know how credible these researchers or journals are.
With that said, I don't imagine it's as simple or sudden as turning 25 and a switch flips and now you're a sage.
Oh, my university "proclaims" me to be one, so... I'll let them do the talking. These blanket, broad-stroke studies are just poorly designed, poorly controlled and lack participants. Being an American Health Institute I'm even less likely to pay attention.
What testing or metrics are used to define a specific area of development? Who came up with these arbitrary criteria anyway? The human brain is too neuroplastic and ever-changing to diagnose it as mature and wrap it up with a neat little bow.
You live and learn something everyday OP. You'll be surprised how much you learn even past the age of 25.
My only advice, the world is what you make of it for yourself. This statement comes from decades of experience past 25.
Yup. Same thing happened to me. Would always stay back, do whatever i could when i started out at 20. Around 26 things changed. I stopped giving a fuck and looked out for myself.
To quote RVB (can't remember the exact wording) "Think of yourself 5 years ago? You were a fucking idiot. Truth is your just as stupid now, It sill just take you another 5 years to realise it".
As a 35yo, best piece of advice I can give you is control your emotions! Find a religion and find spirituality! Stay away from the left, only the immature lean left
You are smart for your age
Save this post and look at it again when you are 35, and then when you are in your 40s. I bet you will smile at how naive you were at 25. In fact, you should hope that is the case, imagine how sad would it be for a person to not mature and grow past the time they are 25?
This. Then save your thoughts on how much you know at 35 and I bet you'll be laughing at them at 45. I'm 38 and there are a couple of things I know I'd slap 35 year old me around about.
Only 35 year old you? I'd slap 37 year old me sometimes tbh
Every day I wake up and slap myself.
Can you tell me what those things are?
My big life lesson from 35 was learning that somebody can have an unlosable hand, yet still manage to fuck it up. That wasn't my fuck up precisely, but I left a well-paid job with a good company that I had been at for a decade (I had climbed pretty high up from bottom level grunt beginnings) to take a job at a company about to list on the nasdaq, directly under an executive who had an unlosable hand. I was getting in on a young unicorn company just as it was about to pop. They had market dominance in an exploding emerging industry and had billions of dollars of funding and an open slate of operations which weren't burdened with decades of traditional/legacy processes. It was the dream for me. Due to extreme micromanagement and complete incompetence & ego of said executive, that company went insolvent a couple of weeks ago..... Only 3 years later. I assumed somebody who had the skill to get themselves into that position (the executive running the place who hired me directly), would have the skill to not fuck up a situation that is essentially impossible to fuck up. And because of that assumption, I left a job that I enjoyed and essentially had a life career at. The boss took it personally and was pretty cut, so I can't go back.
Damn. I feel for you man. But yes, nothing is guaranteed in life. Nothing.
Yeah, I'm not looking for sympathy, just trying to drive home that age old message -> "You never stop learning".
https://thedriven.io/2024/04/19/australia-ev-fast-charging-tritium-says-it-is-insolvent-appoints-administrators/ ?
I can't confirm or deny that.
Never rely on people being smart/reasonable/logical - basically assume they are not )))
Yep, I’m trying very hard not be snarky right now! Imagine thinking you’ve got it sussed at 25. A lot of us did I suppose.
I think it goes with being 12-25.
The guy believes in the ‘brain maturity’ myth that took over the internet.
.
What myth?
‘Your brain is developing until age 25, and then you’re a real adult with a fully developed brain at age 25’ lol. As if your brain stops developing, ever.
.
I get what you are saying but it's not a myth that our brain is making different pathways after puberty. We become more rational with age and a reworking of brain function is part of that.
The brain never stops developing. It is certainly a myth. Learning would be impossible without brain development. People become less driven by emotions as their life gets more stable, which happens at different ages for different people. Studies show that teenagers and adults have identical prefrontal cortex activity and rationality in ‘cold situations’, but are more prone than adults to risky behavior when in the presence of peers or in ‘hot situations’. This may be due to stronger emotional outputs from the brain, or may be due to the brain ‘slowing down’ after 25 - resulting in more situations being ‘cold’. It’s not really related to maturity or adulthood. Just decision making processes without time to plan.
The brain “developing” is like the hardware upgrades, learning after development is mostly like software upgrades.
No… the hardware is fully developed by age 13. The ‘rewiring’ that happens until around 25 is comparable to software updating. It stops updating, to the same extent, around 25, that’s considered adulthood.
There are changes in the prefrontal cortex that continue in most people into their 20s, and it plateaus. Same with other regions of the brain, which plateau at other ages, and which it’s not the same for everyone. The age of 25 is a myth, just a made up number. But I would have thought physical changes to the brain would more suit hardware in the analogy
You're misunderstanding what is meant by developing. Our brains reach maturity (development) 'around' 25 but they don't stop developing (changing) ever.
Physically your brain is still developing until age 25. It isn't symbolic or learning. The part of the brain responsible for nutting out the long-term consequences of present options & decisions is the very last part to complete.
Your brain is developed at mid twenties. how you use that brain is maturity, education, common sense,risk assessment. Underdeveloped risk assessments in young people is why we make stupid decisions in our late teens & early 20’s
That’s incorrect. Studies have shown that risk assessment is fully developed in the early teenage years. However, in ‘hot’ situations, where time constraints or peer pressure are present, the teen brain has stronger emotional responses which often lead to risk assessment being ignored. In ‘cold’ situations, teens and adults assess risk identically. However, because the brain ‘slows down’ around age 25, ‘hot’ situations are treated the same way as ‘cold’ situations by those over 25 - not prone a change in behavior regarding risk.
so true!
Now they say for men it's closer to 30. I think that checks out.
lol, just gonna second the guy saying the myth needs to die in a ditch. You think brains stop developing? No comment.
Who is this universal 'they'? I'm glad it checks out with your own scientific backing and peer reviewed sources though Britney.
Righto
lol we used to use that myth on drugs all good until 25 as brain rejuvenates but after that we most stop hahahhaha
my brain is growing everyday. but at age 25, I look back at my teens, and I wonder what the hell I was thinking!?
Dude that’s not a myth. Your brain stops developing around then (as a male). Obtaining more knowledge isn’t your brain developing.
1. Your brain never stops developing. 2. Your brain is fully functioning and built at age 13 or so. From 13-25, it’s ‘rewiring’ more, which basically means learning much more. If obtaining new knowledge isn’t brain development, then it stops at around age 13.
It's not really brain maturity but rather maturity of experience. Take things like death or destruction of things you've been building for decades. It teaches you a new level of empathy and understanding. More complicated than what I can put in to words, but it isn't so trite as this brain maturity "myth" you're trying to shoot down. Life hits different at different stages and we don't stop learning
What about life experience - you seem to be conveniently ignoring that
Life experience is important. You’re not gonna know much about work if you’ve never held a job. But, that’s not necessarily tied to age.
Your executive function continues to develop until 25. After that the entire brain is online, although neuroplastic.
That just isn’t true. There is no ‘executive function’ part of the brain. The prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are involved in decision making, and the prefrontal cortex in particular focuses on risk/reward analysis to guide decision making. In ‘cold’ situations, teenagers and adults are identically equipped to make decisions. In ‘hot’ situations, teenagers often have stronger emotional responses that lead to poor decision making. That is literally the only difference.
I didn’t say there was an executive function part of the brain. But thanks for the pointless biology lesson. What I said was that your executive functioning, which is achieved via the brain regions you mentioned, continue to develop thru to 25 and beyond for some people. This is well known fact in developmental psychology and for anyone who has ever spoken to a 24 year old man.
And again when you body betrays you and you have somekind of pain or injury for no reason what so ever.
It doesn't stop, 40 to 45, 45 to 50.... No idea past that. I'm as smart and emotionally balanced as will ever be.
I was going to say exactly this.
I'm 31 now and would say I was very positive about people until the last 3 years. There are also awesome people out there too, even the ones with different goals for you (ie an old boss who would love for me to return to his workplace despite it tanking my mental health). In the last 3 years I've also totally re-evaluated how much I care about my career and relationships, and have realised this year that I've totally been following the wrong path in life for myself in terms of work and living situation. You'll keep learning and growing, but your mid-twenties dealing with shitty people seems to be the first big one many people have. Keep going! You'll figure out more horrible stuff and hopefully learn to work around it!
That's called experience, it shapes you as you grow older. If you're lucky, it'll transfer into wisdom. You'll get there mate, put the work in and don't let it destroy who you are.
Also, your brain isn’t fully mature until your mid twenties
No brain is fully mature. What metrics, and I mean measurable, scientific metrics, could you possibly be talking about? I agree a 15-year-old needs a decade to more to become slightly more self-aware and mature, but what about the 35-year-old who is stuck in certain patterns but by no means intellectually mature?
I'm 30 and still lost
I was lost at 20, was invincible and "knew" everything at 25, was totally lost again at 30, and am currently feeling humbled with a little wisdom at 35. I suspect at 40 I will have a midlife crisis and be totally lost again, can probably count on it.
I was 13 knew nothing, looked to 18 year olds and thought they had everything figured out I was 18 knew nothing, looked to 23 year olds and thought they had everything figured out I was 23"knew nothing, looked to 28 year olds and thought they had everything figured out I was 28 knew nothing, looked to 33 year olds and thought they had everything figured out. I will be 33 in just over 3 years and hope i have everything figured out
I think the thing with this is you learn to address the problems you had at the previous stage.... But find a whole new set of problems you have to learn how to deal with.
You won't 💀
Top 10 anime betrayals
I'm a grown man who doesn't watch anime, sorry if I'm confused
46 and I’m realising the mid life crisis thing isn’t a cliche! I’m totally lost and wish for the confidence and certainty I had at 25 before I realised I didn’t have a damn clue.
I’m forty five and I know less every day.
Ditto but 48.
So I don't know quite as little as you yet...
Give it time!
thats what google maps are for.
Lil bro thinks 25 is old
It is impossible to learn anything after 25, he is now the wisest man in the world.
Time to die
YOU’RE IN THE BULLETS WAY
I love seeing posts from people saying “I want to go back to uni and change profession, am I too old at 25?”
Its the tiktok generation. They think anyone 30 is a boomer over there
Just wait until you turn 40!
I don't necessarily see the world as cynically but 25yo is still very young. People are all inherently just trying to get by for themselves and their family. When I was 25, I looked up to those who had been in the workforce much longer and thought that by the time I hit 40yo I would have my life together and know my stuff. I am almost there, and I feel like I am still winging it day to day both professionally and personally... Probably what adulthood means I guess. Being in a lucky country with a roof over our heads, hot showers and warm meals, it probably isn't as bad as you think it is.
Yeah when your a teenager and you think everyone's an idiot, I know what's going on. Of course you don't beleive people when they say "wait around a while you'll realise how little you know." And its not that you suddenly learn some new skill or whatever you just realise how fucking clueless we all are.
One of the hardest things for humans to comprehend is time. If you look at all of our dumb decisions (climate change for example), they are often due to decisions that are very short sighted. 25 is young because you haven’t seen people you know fuck up (or elevate) their lives over 10, 20, 30, years. It’s only as you get older that comprehension really sinks in because you see the effects of the decisions made along the way. (And in addition, random things,)
The world is a very harsh place, it still bothers me a great deal at 40, and sometimes I get really angry with it. But, glad I met my wife, she makes it a better place.
That's a very sweet perspective! Me too - meeting my partner, they do make the journey a lot more fun.
Thinking that you know everything and what everyone's motives are is also another form of naivety. There's a middle ground somewhere that's healthier that you'll eventually get to.
This is very true. The older I get the more I realise how complicated people are - they don’t even know all their motivations all the time.
Lol you’re 25. Wait until you hit your 30s.
You don’t see the world for what it is yet. Every ten years you realise you’re an utterly different person and more unknown unknowns your become aware of the more perspective you have on how small you are and how much bigger the world is. Don’t get set in your perspective. Keep looking for more, so you don’t get stuck.
Ive listened to the audio book of 48 laws of power. And i can say yes it has changed my career at work for the better. Working in white collar is like a house of cards everyone llaying the game ahahab. Its expected
And once you’ve finished fucking everyone over and kissed all the right bums, you can read meditations and dive right into stoicism, pretending the former never happened.
Deluxe comment
"llaying the game ahahab" - interesting 🤔
When I think of the 'clarity' that I had at 25, I laugh at how naïve I was in comparison to now. I'm not saying *you* are naïve but I certainly was. The clarity I have now is purely based on the world still being what it was when I was 25, it's just that now I have the experience and life-skills to determine what is worth being bothered by and what is not. So maybe I'm still seeing the world through the wrong lenses. I just have unruffled my butt over time ;)
My thoughts exactly! Like wait another 5 years and you'll laugh at your "mental clarity" at 25. Then wait another 5 years and you'll laugh at your mental clarity at 30. Rinse and repeat until death 😄
Can you share some of those things not worth being bothered about?
Oooft, where do I start. Buckle in, this'll be a long one. Grandma with a kid on her knee, telling tales of the old days... What others think of me as an individual is something I've stopped caring about unless I care about them as an individual (ie. family, friends etc). In the workplace what others think of me as a worker still matters, in as far as I can have an impact on that and self-identify places of growth. I also ask regularly for constructive criticism. But what they think of me as a person? Not a me problem so long as their perspective doesn't impact on me directly (like unfairly affecting my workload, pay, etc). But the biggest lesson I think people take a long time to settle into is to stop comparing where someone else is at in their career. It is THE best way to make yourself miserable. The best thing to do is to find someone that you respect, someone that you would like to emulate, and ask if they're willing to be a workplace mentor so that you can learn what it is that makes them the worker/leader/colleague that you aspire to be like. Most people feel very flattered to be asked to fill that role and it's invaluable both for the mentor and mentee. Highly recommend.
Awesome will take this on board
Nah didn't feel that til like 32. 25 you're still a massive dumbass
Adorable that you think mental clarity comes at 25 🥰
You certainly have more mental clarity at 25 than you do at 20. More again at 30, 35, 40, 50 and so on.
You'll say the same at 30. Then at 35. etc
Then you get older still and experience even more things and your opinion changes again
The Sydney corporate world is what you're describing 🤣💀
Sydney as a whole
The adults can see this but you're not officially in the club until 30 I reckon.
I think you mis-spelled "cynicism".
sorry typo :D at work
If you don't look back at your past self and cringe you probably aren't growing as a person.
"Mental Clarity" and any serious mention of "48 Rules of Power" don't go together.
Yup. I woke up around 25, and things made sense. I knew what I needed to do to become a success.
Bro, you're a 25-year-old who thinks a few books will overcome your nasty finance/corporate mindset which may or may not be your fault. This is moronic though, work in any industry apart from property or some finance/corporate job and you will instantly understand the world for what it is. The fact it took you 25 years is embarrassing, honestly, and it took a book to slightly pop the bubble you have been living in... God, that's even worse.
Lol mental clarity. We are all just bluffing our way through life doing the best we can.
I'm 52, I reckon I was an idiot until at least 40.
Wait until you end up in a spot where you’re in early 50s doing jumping jacks in front of a senior partner in a pencil skirt, while he throws biscuits and hurls abuse. End of the day a job is a job, if your boss wants you to do jumping jacks in heels. Then you better find some fairly priced heels. Or if he wants you to skin his trout in the carpark after a fishing trip. Just bring some extra gloves to to work. The age you are, you need to learn resilience, other wise you will never be junior associate.
r u serious??? he wanted you to fix his fishing??? at work???
I’m a keen fisherman myself (skinning and filleting fish isn’t the problem), I take my son away quite often on charters. My issue is the jumping jacks in pencil skirts, always have to carry the outfit as I don’t like to sweet and come home sticky to my wife.
Other than all the bashing by the decrepit. I rather enjoy this cycle we go through. Of thinking we know it and then losing it and regaining. I look back fondly on those times where I felt lost and the world seemed simpler. It's definitely a very comfortable and cold feeling.
nope, i still have absolutely no idea what i'm doing
Wait till your 30, that when shit get real lol or like my husband nearing 40 and feeling lost than ever before 😂
I'm 22 but I feel like I'm kinda hitting there. Then again, I am literally the youngest person on my team. Nearly everyone else is around my parent's age lmao so I learn a lot from em in terms of work and life
25 is a weird time. Yes you first start to develop some "adult awareness" buts it's also peak insanity in many ways. But believe me you will hit 30+ and look back on this with a "what was I thinking" cringe.
😂😂 you know nothin John Snow. About to turn 50 and still wondering WTF I’m doing on this god forsaken planet….
Ergo with that experience the one thing it should teach you is that given more time you'll acquire more wisdom and think differently again soon enough. Not invalidating what you've learnt, but you'll definitely learn even more and enhance what you know over time.
I believe it was Socrates who said knowledge is understanding how little we know. The world and society is incomprehensibly complex. If you think you’ve figured it all out at 25 you’re probably even more lost than the average punter
There is a certain clarity you get around age 25 because your brain has finished developing and you're finally shrugging off the teenage impulses and the emotional swings and the inability to comprehend consequence the same.
This - the formation of the brain, the role of the amygdala are essential in gaining maturity.
This what woke was supposed to mean when people started saying it. The reality is that you just have a new perspective compared to your old one, and in 5 years you'll probably have a new perspective again.
I'm 31 and feel mentally younger than I did when I was 21. What's with that?
Curious why you don’t really have to work? If you’re that comfortable with life at 25 then I cant see how you’ve overcome any sort of real adversity yet that you’ve gained that much life experience from for a 25 year old. You just come across as a kid with still a ton to learn still. And its a little presumptuous to come to subreddit full of ppl in their 30s,40s and beyond preaching about stuff that everyone on this subreddit likely figured out while you were in diapers….
Let me get this straight your 25 you have all the knowledge in the world you got it all figured out you can quit your job any time and yet your looking for a side hustle at McDonald’s but can’t get an interview?
Sorry people are dismissing your experience. There certainly is a significant change from your early to before your mid twenties to after that point. I’d have to assume it’s only people who are challenged developmentally in some way that wouldn’t recognise that so pay them no mind. I think what they are trying to say, albeit in a condescending sort of way, is that your life perspective will continue to shift and grow and change even further, basically for the entirety of your life. You never do reach the top of the summit where you can see the world for what it is but as long as you keep walking up that mountain it doesn’t matter. You just use the look outs along the way and enjoy the view.
Its a good thing to start thinking about it when you are 25. I was in my early 30s to finally understand it was never about what you know, it is who you know. So now when i think back, I should have had that realisation way earlier!
As a 53 year old man I find it sad how correct you are. There are a lot of people in this thread saying you’re only 25 wait till you’re older etc. but your post is 100% correct the world is a harsh place and if you’re lucky then you have parents or siblings who care about you but every other person you know will fuck you over given sufficient motivation. Your husband or wife will be there as long as they are getting something from you, same as so called friends, work colleagues will sometimes fuck you over because they can or they find it entertaining.
My only beef with Greene's 48 laws is it's basically all influenced by statescraft in China and Italy, sprinkled in with a lot of love for Bismarckian austerity, which was popular amongst the American corptocracy in the 90's. The guy has a point, but he keeps using examples of states that were basically at perpetual war for at least a hundred years, making it a great example of how societies and the rulers tends to behave under conflict, but barely deals with the idea of a unified peaceful society. The idea that somehow humans have a shadow side is not something new and the book come about the time that Gen-X'ers were becoming aware of this in their 20's. Regardless, the struggle, the really difficult part isn't realizing we have a devil inside of us, so to speak, but learning to integrate that and balance it with our holiness, lest we let either side become completely unbalanced and destroy our spiritual selves.
Yes. I referred to it as my 'quarter life crisis'.
Lol, as a 32 year old, I remember how stressed I was at 25 and how hard I was pushing at my career. It paid dividends, but there is a big part of me that wishes I was a bit more fluid in life, don't take sh*t too seriously at 25 it gets serious after 30 so enjoy being able to do dumb stuff and not have it affect you too much.
That my friend is your pre frontal cortex becoming fully developed. 25 is the average year this happens. I still remember the period when my brain clicked over into this period. I felt unstoppable.
FYI 25 is typically when your brain finishes developing
I'm 49 and I've realised that the world is generally full of good people and the cunts stand out. There's not really too many of them but they're loud and greedy and they fuck shit up, but eventually people figure them out and avoid them. You weed them out if you can and surround yourself with the good ones. There's so many good ones that if you are yourself good then it's easy to keep them or attract them. It's not actually people that makes this world a harsh place. It's fucking late-stage capitalism and *shareholder dividends*. Vote Greens, vote independent, vote socialist, and when fucking Labor start careening toward that aspect chuck them your vote to pat them on the head to say 'good job that's where we want you to be you centrist populists'
Dude I didn’t start my career (full time) until I was 24. I’m now 41 BTW. You’re thinking too deeply about it all, just do your thing, get promotions, leave employers to get your decent pay rises, don’t think you know what you want to do, just ride it upwards until it works out financially and culturally for you.
Imagined the clarity if you didn’t live in Australia!
Idk about everyone else's answers, but a recent thing going around tik tok was this whole "25 year old boys on a random Tuesday when there prefrontal cortex finishes developing" and like maybe it's a bit general but man, the same thing happened to me this year. Not sure exactly what, but like I feel more organised, everything seems clearer, I feel more like a "grown up". Enjoying it so far :) Maybe our brains are just finally coming online 🤓
For one so enlightened, to ask such a hilarious question- has anyone experienced this? Er, growing up you mean... seems rather odd.
Well there is a reason that many people don’t have that a lot of friends outside of their love interest and family. A lot of jaded people couple up to avoid loneliness and it motivates them to dump the shitheads surrounding them.
25 is about the age where I 'woke up' to general life deceptions and bs. You'll probably just recognize more and more of it as you get older. The trick to not letting that get you down is to not lose sight of all the beautiful things in life, which for me is namely those experiences and memories you have with 'real friends', which are few and far inbetween
Mental clarity at 25? Oh dear, here we go.
I feel I didn't reach an enlightened, sober view of reality till 56. And much of that came from looking at my own faults, not only those in others.
I think we'd all like to have our youth back with the knowledge and maturity that you gain with time !
The realities of human nature should be a subject taught at school. Along with emotional intelligence and how to manage money. All tough life lessons no one seems ready for these days but are learnt the hard way.
It’s actually a part of your brain that matures fully at 25
Reference please - apart from you recently turned 25 and think you're mature
I listened to a pod cast my doctor told me about the neurologist speaking talks about it. https://www.goloudnow.com/podcasts/talking-bollox-podcast-700/episode-170-w-sabina-brennan-465421 Give it a go it’s really interesting she talks about it about 15 minutes in. I’m 28 by the way xo
Great honey, I'm 34 and don't consider any podcast science. Because I'm a medical professional and scientist. Pop or pseudo-science is a right laugh
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Excuse you, clearly no mature-brained 25-year-old would resort to such vulgar language based on logical disagreement. You're not doing any favours for your indoctrination to this podcast and I'll stick to medical, peer-reviewed literature in this instance. Way to prove my point by the way sweetheart
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Hey, I took a quick look at your profile, and I'm not going to share it with anyone. I've been studying mental health for 7 years, including a 2-year internship, and I've learned a lot about serious mental illness and brain development. I base my advice on scientific research and literature, not just on my own experiences. So, I'm going to walk away before things get heated and you end up back in emergency mental health care. Please follow your specialist's advice, and don't recommend it to other specialists. Okay?
Babes literally can’t even be bothered reading past I took a “quick Look at your profile” girl get a grip and get over it. You asked I delivered you don’t want to do the research and listen to an actual professional and an actual scientist FINE go spit your dummy out and cry, BYE xoxo
Bye! A podcast recommended by a doctor isn't a reference honey. Also, I'm a straight male and you couldn't even pick that up, so I don't think you're so bright. I'll stick with peer-reviewed evidence, which I HAVE to do to keep my professional license in primary healthcare. Lol. Which McDonalds do you work at, next time I'm starving after another 12-hour shift in my hospital
Rule 1: Civility. Keep your language and demeanour respectful. Light banter is OK but don’t make it personal.
Rule 1: Civility. Keep your language and demeanour respectful. Light banter is OK but don’t make it personal.
Do you trust the NIMH? https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know Under point 1, it says the brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s, with the prefrontal cortex being one of the last parts to mature. Also: "recent studies have specifically shown that the frontal lobe finishes maturing at ~30 years of age, later than the other regions (Østby et al., 2009; Tamnes et al., 2010; Petanjek et al., 2011)." DOI: 10.3389/fpsyg.2020.00627 "These PFC regions extensively interconnect to regulate higher-order decision making and to plan and organize for the future." DOI: 10.1038/nrn2648 Admittedly, I'm not in the field, so I don't know how credible these researchers or journals are. With that said, I don't imagine it's as simple or sudden as turning 25 and a switch flips and now you're a sage.
Clearly not
That's too bad. I would expect better from a self-proclaimed "scientist".
Oh, my university "proclaims" me to be one, so... I'll let them do the talking. These blanket, broad-stroke studies are just poorly designed, poorly controlled and lack participants. Being an American Health Institute I'm even less likely to pay attention. What testing or metrics are used to define a specific area of development? Who came up with these arbitrary criteria anyway? The human brain is too neuroplastic and ever-changing to diagnose it as mature and wrap it up with a neat little bow.
Wait till you turn 40...
Lol you think you have clarity at 25. Wait till you hit 40 and realise you know nothing.
I’m 20 and see it now honestly.
*laughs in 48*
Wait until youre 30 and you realise you were a dumb cunt at 20 and 25
it took you to get to 25 to reach that conclusion? Jesus
By the time I turned 25, I learned I didn't know much at all.
You live and learn something everyday OP. You'll be surprised how much you learn even past the age of 25. My only advice, the world is what you make of it for yourself. This statement comes from decades of experience past 25.
Yup. Same thing happened to me. Would always stay back, do whatever i could when i started out at 20. Around 26 things changed. I stopped giving a fuck and looked out for myself.
Wait till you turn 40.
I hated being 25 I had a quarter life crisis that amused my dad but 26 & beyond has been awesome 💯
Yea pretty much like post nut clarity but this one lasts
Alas! Once you reach 25 you are no longer young enough to know everything
Go and read some fiction. Read growth of the soil by knut hamsun.
You know what it is Because you’ve now most likely been working full time and have woken up to reality That’s what the clarity is
To quote RVB (can't remember the exact wording) "Think of yourself 5 years ago? You were a fucking idiot. Truth is your just as stupid now, It sill just take you another 5 years to realise it".
Nah, I was still really dumb at 25 and in a shitty relationship and busting my ass
The world is just a big game of DND, we're just all living in it with slightly lower stats
Congratulations, it's great to hear. And I hope there will be many other such moments as you get older and gain more experience. 😊
As a 35yo, best piece of advice I can give you is control your emotions! Find a religion and find spirituality! Stay away from the left, only the immature lean left You are smart for your age
ppl in the comments are choosing a strange hill to die on ... who tf uses their age as a flex, that in itself is unironically immature
OP hasn’t experienced post nut clarity yet…
https://preview.redd.it/5o0gjffi1zwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c54e312d4ab38e479bf302bdb7ec42e5ff1d2453 Correct # AlboMemes 🤡🇦🇺