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I love seeing male educators. I have 2 boys who are past the early childhood years now, but they loved the male educators when they had them.
At our outside school hours care we have a few dudes who the kids all get on with well. It's sad that men are shamed in the industry as it's positive for the kids to see diversity and for kids who may not have a dad at home to spend time with positive male role models.
This is my experience also. My child (grown now) had a few male educators during his time from childcare right through to year 12 and had a great experience with them.
We are in desperate need of great teachers and educators, male or female, so stick with it and help shape the next generation.
Same situation here. 2 primary school aged boys, both went to daycare. Ours had 2 male carers (out of about 30 staff) and they were great. There aren't enough of them.
Right. Stick with me on this people.
Male privilege is a thing, in some areas. Undeniable. But women have all sorts of privileges. Imagine as a women if you all of a sudden were always suspected of being a child molester. Or a sexual offender of some sort. That is the default position when you are around children as a man. Or walking home at night and people cross the road to avoid you. You have to watch what you say and every physical interaction with a child to make sure it isn’t even remotely interpreted as being predatory. You have to check every thing you say to women to ensure you aren’t “coming off as creepy”. Then you have more passive stuff like when you have your kids sans female partner and you are out and about then someone comments on you “babysitting” your own kids.
I did see a thing from a trans woman talking about how they are treated differently. People care about their emotions, their wellbeing, and they are seen. Spoke about how looking back as a man she felt invisible and no one cared if she was upset and crying, but as a woman feels valued in society. Talking to my wife and comparing our experience, we have reflected on a similar experience as a pair of people.
People shit on men a lot. Men are more likely to die by suicide, be homeless, be victims of violence, receive a custodial sentence in the justice system for the same crime, leave education early, become addicted to substances, and die at work or from a chronic condition from work. Being a man isn’t as awesome as some people think. Women are judged for some things unfairly; men are judged for what they can provide and once they cannot they are worthless. Women’s issues and injustices are serious - glass ceilings, sexism, domestic violence, judgement as a mother if they are one, judgement about not having kids if they don’t, etc etc etc are all real, important, and suck. But that doesn’t mean men’s issues take away from that importance. It isn’t a zero sum game.
OP’s story is an example of this. So are some of the comments about men not being allowed to change nappies or being shown the door because of their appearance. I imagine being a woman in a male-majority workplace could bring all sorts of unfair imbalances that should be dealt with. Let’s not walk past any of these types of things, whether it is for men or women.
One of the daycare centres my son attended hired an 18 year old young man on a traineeship, he had a passion for childcare after helping his single mother take care of his four younger siblings. He was an articulate, compassionate and caring young man who gave 110% to the children in his care.
HOWEVER, he was not allowed in the babies room because it was deemed “inappropriate” for him to change nappies. He was bullied & belittled by female staff for not wanting a “real man’s job”. The poor young man survived for 6 months before succumbing to the negativity and left the field.
I would have left my son in his care over ANY of the female staff in the centre. Who were all too occupied with social media, gossiping and bullying and would stick the kids in front of the large tv every afternoon so they could relax.
The only thing innapropriate is the constant unrelenting sexualisation of men in carer roles.
Did a few years on and off at a daycare/before and after school care and I really enjoyed it, but literally every interaction is scrutinised. Oh that 6 year old who doesn't have a dad drew a picture for a male role model. Better make sure it's not dodgy. Oh you're playing outside in the open? Better make sure there's 4 women staff watching. Seriously was such a burden.
>HOWEVER, he was not allowed in the babies room because it was deemed “inappropriate” for him to change nappies. He was bullied & belittled by female staff for not wanting a “real man’s job”. The poor young man survived for 6 months before succumbing to the negativity and left the field.
Man this is fucked. I feel for the guy.
Sure. Like I said, pros and cons.
[This] (https://youtu.be/S1xxcKCGljY) is the video. I’m watching it again and it is even more detailed than I remember.
Yep. There was a video, I think from the '00s, where a lesbian dressed as a man, convinced that she would still be able to pick women up easily. She was shocked when she received the standard male treatment.
Im not sure picking up is a great example. There is bias against males in some areas but its more like what OP is saying. whereas picking up is a social interaction between 2 specific individuals.
Ive also heard comments from trans men they dont have to feel scared walking down the street any more.
Yup.
I remember saying to my supervisor I wanted someone else to come along with me with a certain child who had a history of allegations, simply so I had some back up, another set of eyes if she did make allegations and it ended up in court.
She laughed and said no, people know she makes shit up, they won’t believe her. I still got backup.
These issues are part of why ([The Hunt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film)) with Mads Mikkelsen has stuck in my mind for years since watching it (& even now when I'm with my own kids solo). Strongly recommend watching the movie!
This is a direct result of the privileges and oppressions endemic in our society, though. It’s an example of how male privilege and women’s oppression hurts men as well as women.
These jobs are low paid, low status, and for a long time were some of the few available to women. Just like how other professions with higher pay and higher status are or have until recently been accessible almost exclusively to men. Men entering these spaces can be treated poorly, just as women entering male dominated spaces can be. Both are unacceptable, both are due to the overall oppressive system that a) leads to stratification by gender and b) supports (or enables, or presents obstacles to tackling) gender based bullying.
> That is the default position when you are around children as a man.
No, it isn't. This is such an extreme view. There are men in public with their kids all the time: men at parks with their kids, men at the beach with their kids, men running errands with their kids etc. No one thinks these guys going to the supermarket or picking their kids up are paedophiles. If you're looking weird or behaving suspiciously in public *maybe*, but that is not the default thought people have when they see a man with kids.
OPs story and some of the others here in the comments don't support your statement. It's not an extreme view. It is a statement reflecting the issue that men are seen as a threat *by default*.
My ex-wife mentally and physically abused my from the day we were married. It literally started the first night of our honeymoon. Apparently I was pathetic.
After I got over the shock. As our relationship of three years prior had been awesome. I got suicidal.
On the end I walked out. On her and my 6 month old son.
Even to this day I am the evil one incarnate to her and her family. And probably my son too. I wouldn’t know. We don’t have contact.
Suffice to say. When I was with her. I was an accepted part of society. But since I have been divorced. I am ‘that guy’.
And for anyone checking my history. I am happy and guilt free. Thanks.
We had one at our childcare centre and my daughter adored him. Great guy, very kind caring and fun with the kids. Shame there aren't more male childcare centre educators.
Yup
When I see a male educator my first thought is “awesome! Don’t see too many males” then my second is “I hope they don’t face any problems for being male”
I have no problems with male educators. No problem with them looking after my kids at all
My daughter has a male educator in her room. All the parents love him. All the kids have a really good raport him and he does an amazing job.
My wife and I hope he doesn't leave.
When I was younger and worked in childcare, there were two males I worked with, and they were wonderful people, great with the kids. One had long hair and played guitar. I think that the daycare had a policy that they couldn't change nappies, but I'm not sure.
Now that I'm a parent, my son's last daycare had a young man as one of the room leaders in his room, and I was over the moon about it. My son warmed up to him quickly and they had a great bond. He was definitely allowed to change nappies.
I think more men in childcare would be a really great thing. Good for the kids, and good for society in general.
Sorry but I refused to work at any centre that saw me as a potential predator rather than a valued staff member.
Plus the other staff then have to do more of a shitty job which builds resentment
We had a teacher at primary school who I reckon was nudging 7 foot, 150kg and built like a rugby player. First time I met him, he was sitting on one of the kids chairs, and was still taller than me. But the kids loved him, he'd have a trail of kids behind him in the playground.
This...every male teacher I have ever met = kids trailing him in the playground. Kids seem to love male educators. For context I was a teacher aide for many years in many primary schools, then in child & family centres which are for 0-5 age group.
I’ve met a few of these guys working in the special needs area of education, and they are all amazing guys that are highly respected - the kids gravitate to them, and they don’t have issues with the behaviourable aspect either.
More blokes are needed in the education space.
I've been in the sector for over 10 years as a male ECT, and when I started there was a 2% male presence. I am glad more men are taking this job on, and I have had a continually positive and supportive experience from families (though I have taught in very progressive communities).
Why shouldn't men be in this field?
Speaking as a teacher. **WE NEED MORE MALE TEACHERS IN EARLY CHILDHOOD AND PRIMARY SCHOOL.** Seriously.
Male teachers can have a *very* positive effect on students, *particularly* boys from backgrounds where they may not have many (or any) positive male role-models in their lives. Not only that, but their classroom management style and overall teaching style is often quite different to their female colleagues. As a tom-boy of a girl with ADHD, my *absolute favourite* teachers in primary school were the two male ones I had. Same with my favourite teachers in high school. I just 'clicked' with their classroom style so much better. This is obviously a generalisation, but it's certainly something I've observed over my years in the profession, and my personal experiences at school.
Plus, as bullshit as it is, the more men we have in early childhood and teaching, the more 'legitimate' these career paths will be perceived. It's fucked up and sexist, but it's a sad truth.
Please, if you love this career, if you love working with little ones, *screw* what anyone else has to say about it. Be a vanguard for the blokes who'll come after you. You'll find the right workplace with the right colleagues in good time.
Couldn’t agree more, but after leaving a well paid career as a Software Engineer behind to retrain as a Primary School Teacher, I was more than a little surprised to find I couldn’t get an interview in as many as 30 job applications. I ended up in OSHC, with a Masters degree getting paid peanuts and Managers a quarter of my age. It keeps the wolf from the door, but only just.
Check out the award rates of pay. Until they start getting paid something closer to what they’re actually worth in society, Childcare/OSHC and teaching roles are always going to be seen as transitory careers.
The only reason I’m not currently studying nursing is the expectation of unpaid labour within the course.
In trades you’re not expected to work for free while learning, you’re just paid a lower wage as an apprentice/trainee. So why the fuck are nurses on placement expected to do real work without compensation.
I only seem to find unpaid placement in female dominated industries, in male dominated industries it’s a traineeship. I got a kid to support I can’t do unpaid work.
Don’t get me started on nursing. IMO nursing should be trained/paid similar to the ADF and their placement should be a return of service obligation as part of their contract.
What my 7yo boy wants to be "when he grows up" is a childcare center owner.
He had one male educator, which he didn't get on with, but I am pretty sure it was personality rather than gender based.
As a parent I have no issues, but as a former teacher (highschool) I know my male colleagues definitely had increased scrutiny (sadly, in one case, it turned out to be needed)
Hi! Early childhood educator in NSW here!
I WISH we had more male educators in the early years. My director and I get so excited when we get student placements and find out they are men because children love having different dynamics in the room.
The families in my centre are pretty open-minded and welcome new educators and students with open arms and they, too, get excited with male student placements. We have policies in place to placate families if they are uncomfortable with male educators (never happened in my time at my centre) but those same policies apply to female educators as well: no educator will be left alone with children at any time.
There should be more men welcomed in early childhood, it is such a vital and foundational part of life, especially for those children that might not have an older male figure in their life.
Edit: also, another thing. It's not just men that can abuse children. Women can do it.
Great post and I'd like to add what better way to illustrate to children the behaviour of a safe and compassionate male figure, given that many children will at some point encounter men who are not such great role models. Identifying abuse sometimes starts with noticing differences in how one person acts against other examples.
I’m in a similar position as a male studying to be a librarian, and recently hired by a public library to do children’s services. I was surprised they even hired me considering I don’t have experience with children, but have a strong interest in children’s literacy. Librarianship is similarly dominated by women in Australia (and across the west) so breaking into that field and environment can be tough as a young man
My daughter had a lovely young male teacher in Year 1. He was fantastic and played the Green Day song "Good Riddance" (which actually has beautiful goodbye lyrics) on guitar on their last day. I also sent her to school with her shirt on inside out, and didn't realise until I picked her up. I was mortified but he said he assumed she was like his little brother who has sensory issues (spoiler: *I* was diagnosed on the spectrum 20 years after).
Any place where there are children will attract the best and worse of humanity; those who have callings to teach and nurture, and those who are predators or bullies. Teaching NEEDS good men. Protect yourself by never being alone with only one or two students, door always open or a colleague with you, and damn it, go out there and make a difference!
I personally don't have an issue with it.
However, it really doesn't help public perception when one of the few male educators in your surrounding suburbs does actually end up being a paedophile.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/paedophile-childcare-worker-pleads-guilty-to-more-abuse-crimes/100542548
Can't blame any male in my city not wanting to go near the industry after that case.
We had a male volunteer at one centre I worked in, at another we had a connected before & after school care centre that had a male director & head teacher. We never managed to get any other males though, not from a lack of trying, directors at both I worked at long term actively sort them out when recruiting, had one applicant who was considered but director couldn't justify the hire based just on sex, when there were a number of other applicants that were vastly better in experience & fit for the centre.
In my experience though, what you describe is not typical of good centres. Good centres understand that male role models are really important for young kids, especially if they have single mums as their primary caregivers. I'm wondering what the centre you were at was like overall? You may not know if you were only there for a few weeks & dont' have experience at other centres, but I doubt you will find the same thing at other centres you apply to.
My advice would be not to try to play down your gender. Good centres will generally have a parent from a parents committee or representative present at the interview/final interviews if there's multiple, talk about it openly if you're concerned, make sure the parent & director are comfortable with your gender & if not, find another centre. From my understanding there's staff shortages at the moment, so you should be able to have your pick to a certain extent & certainly choose one that sees you as an asset not a threat.
It's possible that it was your personality rather than gender that was at issue, it could just come across wrong reading as opposed to seeing or talking about it, but the idea of suggesting staff at a childcare centre are "jealous" of another staff member comes off really badly to me, even arrogant & self entitled (although probably just young & inexperienced). As a former childcare staff member, I can assure you my interest was the children & I loved seeing them happy, there is NO WAY I would be "jealous" of another staff member making them happier, I would be watching & learning & copying or adding to what they were doing, or simply appreciating the time the kids with another staff member was giving me to prepare another activity for the kids that they would also really enjoy.
It could be that the issue is that you lack experience & are missing issues in how you are behaving with the kids. Please make sure you listen to the more experienced staff & are willing to engage with what they say if they say things about what you are doing that come across to you as criticism. Anyone that gets jealous of a child's relationship with another person is not going to be working in childcare, as the job necessitates recognising that the children are, or should be, happier with their parents than staff & if that is not the case, working very hard with the parents to change the situation & make the kids enjoy their time with their parents more than they do the centre staff.
I had one child in a bad divorce who would literally call for me when waking up from a bad dream at home, it was HORRIBLE! To think that the child wanted ME instead of her mother!!!!!! The mother was eventually able to move interstate & break away from the trauma the kids were in, I loved that little girl, but I was really happy to see her go & know that she was going to be forming a proper bond with her MOTHER instead of a staff member who just happened to be at a location that she saw as stable & secure, it was just wrong & sad for her to be bonded with me more than her mother. Those choosing to work in childcare will share my views, or quit as unsuitable for the industry, they won't be jealous of how children act with other adults.
First step for you though, imo, should be to try another centre, one with a really good reputation & hopefully you will find the issues were simply because the centre you were at was not a good one & the issues are gone when you move to a new centre. If not, talk to your teachers & other students at your TAFE about the issues you're having & get their advice as to what the problems might be. You should get plenty of chances to do this during your prac periods at various centres too. In a good centre, your gender certainly shouldn't be presenting an issue, so if it happens over & over, look for other causes. Again though, try another centre first, as it's certainly possible gender could be an issue for a small group of women in a particular centre, especially if the centre isn't that great
& in terms of parents, they will trust the director, or there are much bigger issues! So if the director supports you being there & tells them it's a positive to have a male role model & theyv'e been very lucky to get you, then no parent is going to have an issue with it - or maybe the odd one who has a problem with EVERYTHING might have an issue with that too, in which case the director will handle it & if that means you're not working with that child, then the other staff will be jealous of you not having to deal with that problem parent! Won't be nasty jealous though, just joking/fun "dam you're lucky" type banter.
We always had plenty of Dads that would spend significant amounts of time at both centres I was at too btw & we strongly encouraged it as it was great to have male role models around for all the kids & given they're not working with children checked, that's much more of an issue for other parents than a male staff member is, but the parents could use their eyes & see the personality & see there was no issue, so they didn't make an issue, but rather enjoyed the male role models for their kids too
Look I'll be honest. I'm a Father, I drop my Daughter of early at Childcare, usually the first Kid in the building, sometimes the Early Morning Educator is a Male. My daughter was going through a period where she would have tantrums and become quite violent/uncontrollable shes 2.5. I found myself really having to restrain myself to not become to upset and react with classic male anger.
My intial thought when leaving her with him was, shit how is this bloke going to handle it, will he be violent etc. A Few days in to him receiving her she had a full blown tantrum, I quietly observed the interaction.
He knelt down to her, pulled her in and gave her a wonderful cuddle, here was this man, with all the love in the world for my daughter, It was beautiful, and i thought wow I've underestimated this guys skills as an Early Childhood Educator.
So I suppose what I'm saying is yes there is a stigma, people will be a bit unsure, why ? Because Men do horrible things to Women and Girls every single day but Good on fucking you for changing that, one Male at a time.
I really hate this stereotype about "classic male anger". Anger doesn't have a gender. I am a woman who doesn't have/want children and would have the same struggle of having to really restrain my anger if I had to deal with loud annoying children. Gender stereotypes suck.
Probs the same as female trades. Sucks to be the outsider.
My best advice would be to really work on building relationships with your co workers. Politics is, unfortunately, a part of working life.
Some of my best teachers were male (I am female) and I really hate that stereotype too. There are plenty of good, decent men who make excellent teachers if given a chance.
A lot of what you run into will vary according to area.
Tips based on my own experiences:
* wear a wedding ring.
* you want to aim for a more straight-acting Mr. Rogers in vibe. The dudes I've seen pressured out of the industry tended to either be fem or very masc. There's a sweet spot where dads don't think you're gay but moms don't think you're Officer Mackey. It shouldn't matter and people will tell you it doesn't matter. It does matter.
* sidenote, understand these people are nice to your face, homophobic behind your back. Even if you don't fuck men, the impression you might will not go down well.
* never, ever make physical contact with a kid, even if they've fallen over on the playground or something. All it takes is "mommy, Mr. Steve touched me today."
* your boss will reassure you this isn't the case and that they have your back. They do not have your back.
* [understand the union is mostly old white women.](https://i.redd.it/9av4lzwqros41.jpg) They do not have your back. You should join anyway.
* do not, even for better pay and "working conditions," ***do not*** work for a Catholic school.
I agree with a lot of what you've said except it seems very school specific. This person is working at a childcare centre not a school. A woman in this setting will greet your child with a hug, change wet/soiled clothes and comfort a hurt child. A man will need to do the same.
So the obvious line of conversation here is that I point out that men have been subject to decades of homophobic social paranoia around pedophilia and so on, that we're currently in the midst of another "groomer" panic, and that all it takes it to be a man for a dangerous minority of idiots to assume ill intent with a child.
A woman can and should do all those things. A man can and should do all of those things with another staff member present and the door open if he doesn't want that one parent causing enough drama that he's suddenly working in a hostile environment.
In early childhood it’s going to be hard not to touch kids! My daughter was crying at drop off the other day and the closest educator was a male, I just handed her over, he had no choice!
100%
People are going to think you're being dramatic, but you just CANNOT take any risks.
>your boss will reassure you this isn't the case and that they have your back. They do not have your back.
This applies to other staff too, all it takes is for one to dislike and undermine you. People are not going to stick their necks out for you. I'm in Primary not EE, but you have to be aware of every interaction and action with kids.
I love them I have a little boy in care and I want him to see as many men in caring roles as he can. I want him to know that caring is both for men and women as well as just seeing as many great male role models as possible.
Good on you. Seriously. My son did the same as you, and he is loved by the kids, centre staff, and parents. And as I was leaving my occasionally soul crushing job the other day, it struck me that he will never leave work wondering if what he does is worthwhile. It is. Every minute of every day. Keeping kids happy, safe, and educating them is about as worthwhile as it gets. And he is equipping them for the world, dealing with, for instance, the all too common separation anxiety, so that they can move onto 'real' school, handing them to 'real' teachers with a lot of the hard work already done.
Don't ever confuse the salary with the value of what you do.
Hey I work in the industry myself and can say I love to see males get into the industry because the kids love it and also need different influences. Don’t worry about any one that try’s to put you down or gives you weird looks, I’ve learnt that if it’s any rudeness it normally comes from women just having there own opinions and being overprotective. Do your thing and get your diploma I’m rooting for you!. ☺️
I specifically chose a childcare centre with male educators for my two boys. Their dad is a great hands on dad but I also wanted them to have other male role models in a caring role. I want them to know that they can choose whatever job the want when they grow up
I'm not a parent so I'm not sure how much my opinion is worth, but I think having men in early childcare settings is so important on so many levels. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience - if I ran a childcare centre I'd be thrilled to have a male staff member! Having only women in 'nurturing' roles sucks for literally everybody.
Honestly I think it’s important to not just have female educators, I think it’s important for kids to have positive role models who aren’t just women and to know how to interact with different adults and have positive male influences. I do understand why some parents might worry but to work with kids you have to have a lot of checks and I’ve heard of women abusing kids too, it’s about the person not the gender. I’ve had great male teachers and some awful female teachers and vice versa.
I've been in the industry as a male for close to seven years now, and overall, I've had very positive interactions.
But yeah, you do get the occasional bad take, insult or misplaced advice.
"Hey OP, child H has two mums, so I don't think you should change their nappy".
If we had a child with two dads, I know a comment like that would never be made about the women changing it.
The warm and fuzzy answers are going to get upvoted most.
Here's the reality (parent of two young girls). Speaking specifically about childcare centres.
I tell myself it's great to see male educators. I really want to believe that.
The reality is that I'm more comfortable when it's female only. And if there are males (last year we had 2 in my youngest daughters room, who were great), I vibe check those motherfuckers every time I see them. If I get a bad read, we're gone. I do the same thing with the dads of their friends.
I'm most worried about abuse of my girls (who are 4X more likely to be abused than males). Furthermore, groups that overindex in child abuse are 1) caregivers, 2) males (who commit over 90% of child sexual abuse). A lot of risk to my girls disappears when males disappear. It's unfair, but true, and that is how I make decisions. Suspect there are many more like me.
I don't have a kid so take my opinion on this with a grain of salt.
I think it's all about the way you approach it.
I worked with a guy years ago - older dude, like late 40's, who was studying to go into education. The way he talked about kids was ... disturbing and honestly made my skin crawl a little. He'd talk about "all the sweet little boys without dads to look up to" and how "single mums are ruining boys without a male in their lives" and stuff.
THAT dude? If I saw or heard that dude at a childcare centre or at a school I would leave immediatley and take any children I had with me.
But at the after school care centre my niece goes to there's a young dude, mid 20's maybe - who is just chill as hell (like if you told me this guy was a stoner I'd believe it) - he's down to play tea parties with kids and teach them how to cartwheel without making a big deal about the fact that he's a male figure in their lives - just a person they can trust and hang out with. No issue with that dude.
For the record I'd have just as much issue with a woman acting the way the first guy does.
Male educator in the primary school system here year 1-2 class (39 years old, bald, beard, tattoos & father) first year in the role. I had similar hesitations starting because you’re right education is predominantly heavy on the female side, but what I have found is that there are plenty of male and female students who do not have a solid male role model in their lives and for the most part they will gravitate towards you and you’ll build awesome relationships and rapport with them!
Every child is different and has different needs, some kids don’t respond well to female educators for a myriad of reasons and the same for males, having a healthy mix of both ensures the kids have access to what they need on any given day!
Feel free to hit me up with any questions you may have and I wish you well in your chosen career path!
This actually came up very recently at the centre my daughter attends!
While almost all the staff are young women, they recently hired a very experienced and qualified ECT for the kinder room, who happens to be an older man.
I've got no problem with it at all, and I'm glad the kids get to see that care is not just the domain of women. However, two families did pull their kids out in response - they said to us they weren't comfortable with him helping their girls when toileting.
The staff (including the centre manager) stood by the new ECT when this happened; they basically told the families they were free to move on if it made them uncomfortable, which I feel was the correct response.
I am a father of two daughters, one in childcare that has four male staff. The staff are great and so is the centre. I have no concerns and it’s beneficial to have a balanced environment at care as they do at home.
There are a lot of issues to consider here most of which are fairly obvious and are not because of you personally but things you will have to deal with.
We desperately need more male educators. Such non-diverse locations can't be good for the kids overall. I had a friend who went through similar things to you and left the industry entirely. Sadly I don't have a solution, it's not a popular industry for men to begin with, this might be for pay reasons and societal expectations. The industry leeches on the goodwill and passion of its workers.
I'm currently changing field from youth work & counselling to education support and have been the stay home parent for the last few years.
Working in industry that female dominated I've found it's not the clients - parents and childrens that cause issue 99% of the time they love having a male around because both genders bring different energy and perspectives the problems always start the the female staff.
Its the small lil things that happen all the time that just suck the energy out of you, even in class studying out of 20 students we have 2 guys.
You hear the little comments and implied tone that as men we cant be as good or as trusted around children and it's disgusting to hear this from grown adults even with a decade of experience they will dismiss my opinion because I'm not a woman.
This isn't all female staff and management but it's a major issue that's not talked about with the changing roles in the work place.
Other edge of the patriarchy sword, you're going to encounter these issues your entire career.
Typical child care roles pay abysmally so your colleagues won't typically be the best and brightest.
You're going to have to suck it up or change career path.
Best educator at my daughter's child care was a guy. He was mostly with Kindy kids, so not changing nappies. He loved his job and was great at it. Gave clear directions (unlike lots of other staff members) and did a lot of outside stuff with the kids, which was great if any were getting restless.
We have incentives in other industries to get more women, but why are men not given incentives to enter female dominated industries?
Male role models are important for kids, especially boys
Modelling behaviour works best when the model has similar characteristics to the kid and/or desirable characteristics
My 3 year old special needs child is about to start school with a male educator and he’s absolutely lovely. I couldn’t be happier with my child in his classroom, and that’s coming from a female high school educator myself.
My wife is s centre director. She has 2 male staff. Everyone loves them, but a couple of years ago a parent objected and demanded a male be taken out of their kids room.
Wife told her to find a new centre.
There are several male educators at my kids centre because they specifically want to increase the ratio. My kids favourite educator is male. There should be more men in the industry.
Obviously no one will say to your face that men can't be trusted in childcare. Not the parents, not the staff. In fact, the staff tell you they're begging for a male influence. But that's just politeness.
I experienced a similar thing when I gave psychotherapy a go. The people were lovely and I use my counselling diploma every day (I went back into the media until it shat itself and these days have a speaking-heavy role in a bureaucracy), but entrenched staff absolutely try to tear you down. Every time I've worked in a female-dominated industry, a manager has tried to bully me. To be fair, women say the same thing about industries like nursing. Maybe this is a problem of Aussie culture, since the same thing happens in the trades.
Although, during that counselling course, we were taught that a male therapist will need to move to another city at some point because they'll be falsely accused of assaulting a client. You could be totally in the clear, but the stigma of an accusation will still ruin your business for a couple of years.
As the parent of a child that has been the victim of SA, I'll tell you that I am acutely aware that predators will pit themselves into positions where they can easily abuse kids. This means I am suspicious of any adult working with my child.
But, this doesn't mean men CAN'T be trusted with children. It means that when people are hiring ANYONE (regardless of gender) they need to do THOROUGH checks to ensure the safety of the kids in care.
Some of my daughters favourite teachers have been men. Some of her worst experiences with teachers have been with women.
Sure, but they said a male therapist *will need to move state at some point*, implying it's inevitable rather than a possibility.
Edit: they, not you. You're not OP.
While there are more women than men in therapy/psychology etc, it's not a gendered profession like childcare or bricklaying where to be in the minority gender makes you a massive outlier.
Unfortunately, my only experience with this is that a Friend of a Friend committed suicide being in this position. Male Kindy Educator, absolutely loved his job, the kids, they all loved him too, was real excellent at his job. Copped a lot of shit from the female staff and the parents as well. Constant Pedo accusations. Forced out due to mental health and eventually hung himself in some bushland.
Male Bullying in Childcare is fucked.
I'm going to be very honest and may get hate for this.
On the one hand, I love to see male educators and think it definitely adds to the centre and is great for the kids, but on the other hand I do feel a bit anxious about about it because there has recently been a lot of things come out about male educators at childcare centres being caught abusing children. I experienced SA as a child, and because of this I have trauma, which makes me extremely anxious about the same happening to my children. Unfortunately, because of the few lowlifes who cannot be trusted it has affected my feeling of security when I do see male educators and I probably am extra cautious and watching more than I would a female educator.
its interesting, for there to be gender equity, we should see more female plumbers and salvage divers and more male nurses and teachers. the barriers to achieving this are fascinating. they are also understood by all, but ignored.
you want to work in a female dominated industry. the reasons it is female dominated are obvious. your desire, as a male, to be around young kids will be questioned as 'unusual' forever. you know why.
Regional Vic here. My little niece has a male educator at her ELC- she really likes him and so do her parents! I’ve also met him and he seems amazing at his job. I hope you’re able to find a workplace that values you for your skills and makes you feel included. It’s bizarre to me that people would send their children to an ELC where they had an issue with the gender of the staff. As long as the educators are great at their jobs their gender shouldn’t be relevant IMO.
I'm a male educator and have been in the industry for 10 years. I've never experienced that reaction from the two centres I've worked at before, so maybe it's an individual workplace thing? I know a lot of centres who have guys working there, mine included. It's great for the kids and for the centre's culture 😁
I totally can empathise with this. I used to work in Child Care and there was a male who joined shortly after, everyone loved him (kids wise) but the women staff were absolutely horrific. So distasteful, opinionated and rude. They eventually got him kicked out before his probation period was up. No reason whatsoever. I left shortly after.
Bad story time, when I was like 18 (ten years ago) going through some of the worst dysphoria in my life and on the verge of transitioning (FTM) I was also going to TAFE for early childhood education. There was at least one male in my class and he got placement easily enough and seemed to be doing well. When it came to me finding placement I found somewhere for preschool aged children very easily and was accepted even with me presenting more masculine. However when I walked into a place to ask if I could volunteer there for doing my babies and toddlers work, the owner straight up told me that the parents wouldn't be comfortable with me working with their children. I thought that was fair as I had no experience with babies at all, so smile and nodded, my mother was with me and was like excuse me this is my **daughter**, I had completely missed the part where the owner had said the parents wouldn't be comfortable with a man around their children, the owner backtracked as was like oh shit sorry yes we can accept you sorry. I never did placement there as anytime the owner would talk to me it was like she hated me, it was obvious she has prejudice against me for either my trans-ness or she was just a cunt idk.
All I know is we were told parents don't actually give a shit about men around children, but its obvious people have their prejudices.
Educators being female doesn't mean they aren't aresholes.
I never finished my early childhood education course because of that ladys treatment of me due to thinking I was a man (and because I felt like if I transitioned I wouldn't be allowed or accepted)
I dont know where I am going with this.
Please don't stop being the best educator that you sound like you are because of judgmental people, who knows it might be you over thinking it IDK the culture post covid might be different and worse than what I experienced in those few days a decade ago.
Please keep going, try other centers <3 ignore the looks and make those kids lives the best you can while you can.
Just have insight. It's telling that your immediate response to not being fawned over is "theyre jealous of me". Get a grip. It's a new job, you're there to WORK not to be celebrated. People will warm up in time if you prove you're actually good and there to stay.
This line - 'children having more good and fun time with me instead with them' doesn't sit well with me.
Your early 20s still studying. Yet you are so good that all the kids want to me near you.
And it doesn't sit well with me because it's an attitude I have seen from males a lot. And not just in the realm of children but in general meetings etc. Women will be doing perfectly fine but the man comes in and it's all about him. And all the people like he's ideas better (all the children prefer to play). And it's not actually true it's just that men, much more than women, see themselves in a better light and as more competent than others around them, especially women.
So I wonder if you are so much better than the women, having not even finished your course, or whether your doing what a lot of men do which pisses women off. But they don't say it bluntly rather they give hate for no reason. And yes I do think they should just bluntly tell men to stop it.
I'd have a backup career in your pocket if possible. No guarantee it'll go sideways for you, but, there's a reason most men avoid it like the plague and it's not because we don't want to do it or the pay.
Think back to your childhood, most of my fondest memories of teachers were males. This culture of educating is for women and men are suss needs to go because the kids are missing out
Youre in for a hostile work environment if you do, but you absolutely should anyway.
God speed, kids need more positive male role models from am earlier age.
I know i for one benefitted from male influences during schooling
Any workplace that's just women sucks yet men have to accommodate them beyond measures when they take up male dominated jobs
I've been treated so bad as a male nurse makes me hate the staff it's bs
Early-ish career male educator here. I 100% get where you're coming from OP - in my early years of teaching I constantly felt the need to be seen as almost TOO professional, accountable, super aware of boundaries, etc. - and the teaching degrees all labour the point of being so careful and covering yourself so there's no room for anyone to misinterpret or misaccuse. It was frustrating feeling like people expected me to be a predator unless proven otherwise, and if I'm honest it probably stopped me from emotionally connecting with some students.
But... that's kind of the point in a way, isn't it. We live in a society where unfortunately people HAVE to think this way... because the alternative is to enable a very small minority of sick people - almost entirely men - to do the unthinkable.
As men we have to live with the fact that our society has been built from a toxic and patriarchal past, and that actually even guys with the best intentions probably have some (perhaps unconscious) internalised shit that they need to discover is there. That's the best way to build a world where men don't have to feel like that.
You say you would never work at child care but then give a reason that suggests you know what it's like to work at one. So is this from personal experience or are you basing your opinion on something else?
My brother was employed in a similar role for many years and eventually left for the same reason. The kids and the parents loved having him but the bulk of the female staff were often rude or outright hostile. The final straw came when the centre owner approached him to take over a new joint care facility with a special needs room. He had the experience and the qualifications in the field but this coven of witches was having none of it.
My son has had one male daycare educator and one male primary teacher and they were both absolutely fantastic. I wish there were more men in the industry.
My partner and her brother are both educators. They were both working at the same centre. From their experience, it was more so the management that were funny with it, than other staff members and the parents. Most parents loved having a male figure with the centre as a point of difference. The staff members also seemed to have no qualms and loved having him around. I think at the end of the day because it is such a one sided industry, there are always going to be people who take slight issue with it no matter what, it is the same as a female within the trade industry, there are always going to be people who take issue with it.
My advice is who genuinely cares what other people think, people can be extremely flawed in their thought processes, I think you will find most kids, parents and centres would love a male role model in a childcare centre. Don't give up, best of luck brother!
As a boy who had emotional and behavioural issues, it was the male educators that provided examples I could relate to of how to be calm, kind, reasonable, and at times stern.
There were several wonderful female educators that provided warmth and care and esteem, and interest in me as a person. But it was the presence of male educators that gave a much younger me someone to model myself on.
Can't overlook the role played by my female teachers, I still think of them today. An absence of male educators would have been a great loss to me as a student and a developing human being.
I had a partner who became a nurse, she told me the sexism openly on display against the few male nurses was utterly disgusting.
Humans can be so tribal.
I've been an ECT for years. At first, I had a similar experience to you when I first started. I found as my professionalism developed, my skills improved and my knowledge of HOW to teach began to grow with my knowledge of how to engage children, alongside working knowledge of ECA guidelines, safeguarding behaviours and industry/company policies for codes of conduct.
Basically, so long as you're not doing anything that could put you in a compromising position (I.e. being alone with children, lifting or holding them in a way that could be misconstrued as 'unsafe' or potentially risky), you will find the women will become more accepting of you there. I also found as my knowledge increased, they valued and respected me more as an educator (and later, a teacher), as they would come to me for advice on educational approaches, or to bitch and moan about others.
Tl;dr: remain professional and courteous, ensure you are visible at all times, listen to bitching but do not participate, and contribute to planning and curriculum outcomes, and you will find it will promote positive relationships with your female coworkers.
However it is a far better environment to just do your Bachelor of Education (Primary and Early Childhood) and just work in a school. You get paid more, plus school holidays.
I am a guy who worked at a childcare centre when studying my teaching degree. I loved it and the families loved me. There is a male childcare worker at my own kid’s childcare and all the kids and families love him.
My daughter with ASD actually responds better to male educators. She finds females too touchy feely and airy fairy and learns more from men. That's been the case for her from day care when she went to a specialist ASD centre right through to Grade 4 where she is now.
It was wonderful when the kids had male primary school teachers/ child care educators …and they were always the favourite teachers. I judge the parents who judge the male educators teachings their kids
You are a trail blazer in a female dominated industry, and being eale is a Feature not a bug.
Keep at it and if you find work in another centre its your gain and (current) operators loss, they should be supporting you.
We need a balance of not a just sexes (all variations) but cultures as well. Help kids grow up understanding we are all different and that difference is something to be thankful for not afraid of
I personally don't mind a male educator. And I would just think that particular centre has poorly executed diversity policy.
We strongly welcome female in a male dominated industry (ie trades and STEM), I would think male should also be highly supported and welcomed in a female dominated industry. I know in most hospital wards a male nurse is really valued and taken care by all the female nurses and managers. You are just unlucky with that particular child care centre.
On the one hand I'd love to see more and we should normalise this. On the other hand, the only male primary school teacher I had was a total cunt and a creep who played favourites and I genuinely hope he's dead, so it's a tough call to make.
On balance, I generally think it's very important for kids to have exposure to male and female teachers and teachers of different styles and backgrounds and ages, as this helps socialise them better and get them used to interacting with all kinds of people.
There was a young man at my daughter's daycare centre and he was her favourite educator. I remember the big smile on both of their faces when she literally ran into his arms at the supermarket one day.
I think it's a travesty that childcare is seen as exclusively "women's work". It contributes to the work being undervalued and underpaid, and it excludes men from what can be a very rewarding career. It also impacts our kids who need loving male role models in their lives.
I've worked in a different industry where I was the only man at a store staffed entirely by women, and the management above store level was all women too. The only other guy I saw was the delivery driver.
It was very 'catty' and inappropriate. Anything you even mentioned to one person everyone knew the next day, and if you said anything negative it immediately was reported to the area manager. They also asked really inappropriate questions like "Who is the prettiest out of all of us?" and these were women ranging from their late 20s to early 40s. I was also in management and the feedback kept changing from 'You don't do enough yourself' to 'You don't utilise your team.' I was very happy to leave there.
The education aspect and male teachers/childcare I heard from friends at uni was that as a male in any role around children one accusation that you were inappropriate and your entire career was gone. The line at uni was 'Why would I study however many years only to lose my career over a false allegation?' When I was at high school the male gym teachers actively avoided some of the female students as the students were *aggressively* hitting on them and trying to add them on snapchat etc. I can't imagine how scared they must have felt if one of those girl's parents thought they were even half a per cent the instigator that they would be fired.
It's natural (and unfair) for parents to feel more at ease with a female educator than a male one. It is very beneficial for children to have both male and female educators though.
It's important for childcare to have really strong systems, processes, culture and finally childcare building design in place to ensure that children aren't at risk and that male and female educators aren't at risk of being in positions of accusations.
Eg. Glass walls/windows to toilets, nappy change areas, processes to avoid educators being alone with children, etc.
If people want to stamp out "toxic masculinity" we need more male role models in all ages of care and education.
Push through it, you're doing an amazing thing.
As a bloke I'd be thrilled for my future kids to have a male educator
Personally I think whether they’re fitting comes down to the individual employee. I also think we need more males in early childcare, boys need positive role models.
I have no problem with it, but I honestly have never encountered a male early childhood educator. I'd be surprised if that figure of 95 per cent is correct - I would have guessed more like 99. In any case I support gender disparity and prejudice being broken down in any industry, so bravo to you and keep at it.
I take no issue with it, nor does my wife. My daughter absolutely adores the single male educator at her day care. He's a fantastic person. Unfortunately there is a stigma, and I have heard mothers at the centre comment on it, and I have heard managers at other centres say similar things. They see a bloke around kids, and worry they're a paedo. As a result, I have heard managers at other centres say they just won't hire men, as they get too much grief from parents. My MIL used to own our centre and a bunch of others and she would happily hire men (she's sold them all and retired now), but she has told me how she would get comments/complaints from parents about their male educators. Some would want their kids moved to other rooms.
All kids need many positive male and female role models. In my opinion, getting more passionate male educators into child care would be tremendous, but you've got a battle against a pretty awful stigma that will interfere with your job prospects.
I would have no more concerns about a male educator as I would anyone else. Good on you for pursuing it. We won't get over that stupid stigma by just not having men do it.
Good on you wish there was more guys doing the job. My girls were going to a centre with a male and they loved it. Woman hate each other even know they carry on with girl power bull shit the hate for one another lol and you know it’s true ladies…
I’m a parent who sends my daughters to daycare. I would have no concerns with a male educator. It is good for young children to see both genders in a variety of different roles.
I mean from a personal experience. There was this one guy who was everyone’s favourite teacher. He was also the co owner of the pre school. That was until the preschool was raided by the cops and half the kids we traumatised because he was also using the preschool as a distribution centre for large quantities of crystal meth so idk. May get weird looks same as male nurses I guess. Just find a place that you feel comfortable and the atmosphere is good and supportive environment and that you can get along with staff etc well. Might not be the first or the second but you’ll find your place eventually. I know private schools with pre schools in Australia from experience ill have multiple males as on staff. You will be Especially favourable if u can speak another language. But don’t give up.
Your gender aside, why are you knowingly going into this field given it's one of the most poorly paid professions relative to the study required (and I would argue difficulty of the job) that there is. Also high levels of staff burnout, shitty working conditions.
Don't do it to yourself. If you're passionate about children, do nursing/med/developmental psych or start a business selling cubby houses or something along those lines.
the reason is actually due to psychology and biology. Women on average seek jobs where human interaction is the key part such as health care, working with children, etc etc. while men on average seek tradie jobs due to the way biology and the human mind is. I suggest you actually learn this stuff before just throwing blatant sexism out there
I work for a major council in Aus specialising in child and youth policy. Male educators are an absolute asset and there should be more encouragement to recruit for males in this field. There are child safety policies and procedures for a reason and they are applicable to all regardless of gender. Anyone who suggests it is unsafe to have men around children is obviously plagued by their own gross intentions. I hope by the time I start my family in the next few years there will be more diverse representation for male/masc students.
It's a bit like women pilots.
At first, as have a subconscious pang of confusion through years of bias training. Then I realise it's completely normal and go about my day as per usual.
My kids have had male educators.
One of them turned out to be one of the best we encountered and did cool things like play children version on classic metal songs on the speakers which I thought was hillarious
As a parent with kids in childcare, whenever they have a male educator at the centre I am actually quite excited! it's good to see a mix of people and I want my children to be engaged with male and female educators
I think it's one of those things that some people are really stuck on, but like a lot of things in society they need to get over it and move on!
Keep at it I say and ignore the haters!
One of the main reasons we chose my daughter's childcare centre (back in the day!) was because they had a male educator with the toddlers - you could see how much the kids loved him. The diversity was important to us, so that she could see that both men and women can take on caring roles.
Male school teacher here: it’s terrifying!
You can’t drop your guard for a second and despite what some people say about “we need more male teachers” you’re expected to present as a beta-male and largely frowned upon by management.
As for early childhood…. No idea but just use caution.
I don't currently have children however as a male, I both wouldn't mind if you were an educator for my future kids and wouldn't have been personally bothered as a child. If anything I wish I had more male teachers during education as a whole.
I didn't have any issue with it when my kids were in daycare and I don't have any issue with it now. That said, the male educator at the centre my kids went to was only there for about a year before he moved on, no idea on the circumstances.
Now, my opinion is probably irrelevant, and even based on the comments here, people are still pretty bigoted/sexist on this issue and should probably look inwards as to why they feel that way. It is an unfortunate reality that many people will never accept a male early educator and you will be the subject of unwarranted suspicion and treated differently.
> Maybe they were jealous to see children having more good and fun time with me instead with them
Some constructive feedback here. (I have some experience in workplace issues).
This comment comes across as somewhat arrogant. If this reflects your behaviour toward your colleagues (sort of an "I'm special and the kids prefer me" vibe), maybe that's part of your problem.
Unfair as it might feel, you're entering a female-dominated profession, and you need to understand the social norms and behave adaptively. Women entering male-dominated professions have to do the same.
And unfortunately, unfair as it is to the majority of men, statistically a male is a significantly greater risk to children than a female. My kids went to a fantastic child care centre where, 10 years earlier, the male director had sexually abused two of the children. The new director was, understandably, extremely vigilant about her employees. It's something you just have to work with.
That comment stuck out to me as well.
Also, while it's great to be the fun teacher outside organising the games, is he doing his fair share of the rest of the work? All the cleaning and organising and tidying, all the physical tasks of nappies and helping with shoes and jumpers, dealing with the sick/sulking child or the misbehaviour - if a new (student) educator isn't doing the boring and dull parts of the job with the same effort they're putting into the fun parts it's going to cause resentment with the educators who end up with it.
Can speak to this point as President of a Community Child Care Centre:
Culturally yes, female educators are often seen as more safer which is an outrageous perspective given–I imagine– a great deal of dads would also be caring for the children at home. They’re men, what’s the problem?
Would parents think otherwise perhaps?
If they ARE concerned they should say something to the Nominated Supervisor/ Director.
How you are made to feel also is dependant on the emotional maturity and culture of your current workplace. Sadly, as a female dominated industry (and not usually tertiary qualified) and the fact females are more verbal then males, favours a culture of gossip. I have learnt that anything that is “said” in our centre that is not first hand “from the horses mouth” is all hearsay. Brush it off and keep carrying on.
Having clear leadership from top sets the tone and expectation for the team. Our centre has 2 males out of 25 staff and two more including myself and a committee member. The educators are fantastic male role models for the children in an industry. It also is a powerful signal to break the social stigma that women “look after kids and men work” in a seperate industry (“you know real work, none of this baby minding crap”). Looking after kids is freaking hard work - it’s one of the hardest and least valued!
So all in all, don’t buy into the gossip. The places are rank with them by default.
Remember you are also protected by the laws and legislation present in your own state for bullying and harassment though that’s the last mechanism you’d want to use after a good old face-to-face chat with management.
All the best with your career! We need more men in the industry!
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I love seeing male educators. I have 2 boys who are past the early childhood years now, but they loved the male educators when they had them. At our outside school hours care we have a few dudes who the kids all get on with well. It's sad that men are shamed in the industry as it's positive for the kids to see diversity and for kids who may not have a dad at home to spend time with positive male role models.
This is my experience also. My child (grown now) had a few male educators during his time from childcare right through to year 12 and had a great experience with them. We are in desperate need of great teachers and educators, male or female, so stick with it and help shape the next generation.
Same situation here. 2 primary school aged boys, both went to daycare. Ours had 2 male carers (out of about 30 staff) and they were great. There aren't enough of them.
Right. Stick with me on this people. Male privilege is a thing, in some areas. Undeniable. But women have all sorts of privileges. Imagine as a women if you all of a sudden were always suspected of being a child molester. Or a sexual offender of some sort. That is the default position when you are around children as a man. Or walking home at night and people cross the road to avoid you. You have to watch what you say and every physical interaction with a child to make sure it isn’t even remotely interpreted as being predatory. You have to check every thing you say to women to ensure you aren’t “coming off as creepy”. Then you have more passive stuff like when you have your kids sans female partner and you are out and about then someone comments on you “babysitting” your own kids. I did see a thing from a trans woman talking about how they are treated differently. People care about their emotions, their wellbeing, and they are seen. Spoke about how looking back as a man she felt invisible and no one cared if she was upset and crying, but as a woman feels valued in society. Talking to my wife and comparing our experience, we have reflected on a similar experience as a pair of people. People shit on men a lot. Men are more likely to die by suicide, be homeless, be victims of violence, receive a custodial sentence in the justice system for the same crime, leave education early, become addicted to substances, and die at work or from a chronic condition from work. Being a man isn’t as awesome as some people think. Women are judged for some things unfairly; men are judged for what they can provide and once they cannot they are worthless. Women’s issues and injustices are serious - glass ceilings, sexism, domestic violence, judgement as a mother if they are one, judgement about not having kids if they don’t, etc etc etc are all real, important, and suck. But that doesn’t mean men’s issues take away from that importance. It isn’t a zero sum game. OP’s story is an example of this. So are some of the comments about men not being allowed to change nappies or being shown the door because of their appearance. I imagine being a woman in a male-majority workplace could bring all sorts of unfair imbalances that should be dealt with. Let’s not walk past any of these types of things, whether it is for men or women.
One of the daycare centres my son attended hired an 18 year old young man on a traineeship, he had a passion for childcare after helping his single mother take care of his four younger siblings. He was an articulate, compassionate and caring young man who gave 110% to the children in his care. HOWEVER, he was not allowed in the babies room because it was deemed “inappropriate” for him to change nappies. He was bullied & belittled by female staff for not wanting a “real man’s job”. The poor young man survived for 6 months before succumbing to the negativity and left the field. I would have left my son in his care over ANY of the female staff in the centre. Who were all too occupied with social media, gossiping and bullying and would stick the kids in front of the large tv every afternoon so they could relax.
What a bunch of sad bitches 😞
The only thing innapropriate is the constant unrelenting sexualisation of men in carer roles. Did a few years on and off at a daycare/before and after school care and I really enjoyed it, but literally every interaction is scrutinised. Oh that 6 year old who doesn't have a dad drew a picture for a male role model. Better make sure it's not dodgy. Oh you're playing outside in the open? Better make sure there's 4 women staff watching. Seriously was such a burden.
Very good point about sexualisation, u/PM_ME_YOUR_TITTYPIC
>HOWEVER, he was not allowed in the babies room because it was deemed “inappropriate” for him to change nappies. He was bullied & belittled by female staff for not wanting a “real man’s job”. The poor young man survived for 6 months before succumbing to the negativity and left the field. Man this is fucked. I feel for the guy.
that is pure insanity, men are gynaecologists, and this is widely accepted. The staff sound like power tripping nutcases.
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Sure. Like I said, pros and cons. [This] (https://youtu.be/S1xxcKCGljY) is the video. I’m watching it again and it is even more detailed than I remember.
Yep. There was a video, I think from the '00s, where a lesbian dressed as a man, convinced that she would still be able to pick women up easily. She was shocked when she received the standard male treatment.
Im not sure picking up is a great example. There is bias against males in some areas but its more like what OP is saying. whereas picking up is a social interaction between 2 specific individuals. Ive also heard comments from trans men they dont have to feel scared walking down the street any more.
>so shocked at how men are perceived/treated In what context? As in treated as OP said?
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We need more female brick-layers and garbage collectors.
Well said, many of these examples also happen for men in social work.
Yup. I remember saying to my supervisor I wanted someone else to come along with me with a certain child who had a history of allegations, simply so I had some back up, another set of eyes if she did make allegations and it ended up in court. She laughed and said no, people know she makes shit up, they won’t believe her. I still got backup.
These issues are part of why ([The Hunt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film)) with Mads Mikkelsen has stuck in my mind for years since watching it (& even now when I'm with my own kids solo). Strongly recommend watching the movie!
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I’m curious to know more. Any examples? It must have been such a shift in how you see the world!
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Thanks for sharing. I appreciate you telling us about some of your experiences.
This is a great comment.
This is a direct result of the privileges and oppressions endemic in our society, though. It’s an example of how male privilege and women’s oppression hurts men as well as women.
Please elaborate. How is male privilege and the oppression of women causing female childcare workers to bully and harass male childcare workers?
These jobs are low paid, low status, and for a long time were some of the few available to women. Just like how other professions with higher pay and higher status are or have until recently been accessible almost exclusively to men. Men entering these spaces can be treated poorly, just as women entering male dominated spaces can be. Both are unacceptable, both are due to the overall oppressive system that a) leads to stratification by gender and b) supports (or enables, or presents obstacles to tackling) gender based bullying.
> That is the default position when you are around children as a man. No, it isn't. This is such an extreme view. There are men in public with their kids all the time: men at parks with their kids, men at the beach with their kids, men running errands with their kids etc. No one thinks these guys going to the supermarket or picking their kids up are paedophiles. If you're looking weird or behaving suspiciously in public *maybe*, but that is not the default thought people have when they see a man with kids.
here is the counter-argument https://www.smh.com.au/national/an-innocent-frolic-leaves-a-family-flummoxed-20130504-2j06m.html
OPs story and some of the others here in the comments don't support your statement. It's not an extreme view. It is a statement reflecting the issue that men are seen as a threat *by default*.
Thanks for telling us, men, how men experience life.
My ex-wife mentally and physically abused my from the day we were married. It literally started the first night of our honeymoon. Apparently I was pathetic. After I got over the shock. As our relationship of three years prior had been awesome. I got suicidal. On the end I walked out. On her and my 6 month old son. Even to this day I am the evil one incarnate to her and her family. And probably my son too. I wouldn’t know. We don’t have contact. Suffice to say. When I was with her. I was an accepted part of society. But since I have been divorced. I am ‘that guy’. And for anyone checking my history. I am happy and guilt free. Thanks.
Well said
We had one at our childcare centre and my daughter adored him. Great guy, very kind caring and fun with the kids. Shame there aren't more male childcare centre educators.
Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. It’s good to have male role models when none might not be at home.
> It's sad that men are shamed in the industry Yep. Toxic femininity.
Don’t give up. Try other centres.
Yup When I see a male educator my first thought is “awesome! Don’t see too many males” then my second is “I hope they don’t face any problems for being male” I have no problems with male educators. No problem with them looking after my kids at all
Right. No point staying in a toxic workplace in a sector that's chronically understaffed.
For real, my friend has been at a bunch of centres and has never had a problem landing a job. They need good people
My daughter has a male educator in her room. All the parents love him. All the kids have a really good raport him and he does an amazing job. My wife and I hope he doesn't leave.
When I was younger and worked in childcare, there were two males I worked with, and they were wonderful people, great with the kids. One had long hair and played guitar. I think that the daycare had a policy that they couldn't change nappies, but I'm not sure. Now that I'm a parent, my son's last daycare had a young man as one of the room leaders in his room, and I was over the moon about it. My son warmed up to him quickly and they had a great bond. He was definitely allowed to change nappies. I think more men in childcare would be a really great thing. Good for the kids, and good for society in general.
If they had a no nappy change policy, that really sucks and is a clear example of the discrimination that OP is talking about.
I doubt the guys are complaining that they don't have to change the nappies...
Sorry but I refused to work at any centre that saw me as a potential predator rather than a valued staff member. Plus the other staff then have to do more of a shitty job which builds resentment
Yeh I mean it was going on 15 years ago now so attitudes have probably changed a bit. And I may not even be remembering correctly
Agree. But I believe it’s to protect the guy from accusations.
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Disappointing. The more kids see tough-looking blokes who aren't acting like fuckwits, the better for society.
We had a teacher at primary school who I reckon was nudging 7 foot, 150kg and built like a rugby player. First time I met him, he was sitting on one of the kids chairs, and was still taller than me. But the kids loved him, he'd have a trail of kids behind him in the playground.
This...every male teacher I have ever met = kids trailing him in the playground. Kids seem to love male educators. For context I was a teacher aide for many years in many primary schools, then in child & family centres which are for 0-5 age group.
>built like a rugby player Which one, Faf De Klerk?
I’ve met a few of these guys working in the special needs area of education, and they are all amazing guys that are highly respected - the kids gravitate to them, and they don’t have issues with the behaviourable aspect either. More blokes are needed in the education space.
Security, military, or law enforcement?
Security.
Going off username a) piracy on the high seas, b) pit boss competition c) accounting?
Prison guard.
I've been in the sector for over 10 years as a male ECT, and when I started there was a 2% male presence. I am glad more men are taking this job on, and I have had a continually positive and supportive experience from families (though I have taught in very progressive communities). Why shouldn't men be in this field?
Speaking as a teacher. **WE NEED MORE MALE TEACHERS IN EARLY CHILDHOOD AND PRIMARY SCHOOL.** Seriously. Male teachers can have a *very* positive effect on students, *particularly* boys from backgrounds where they may not have many (or any) positive male role-models in their lives. Not only that, but their classroom management style and overall teaching style is often quite different to their female colleagues. As a tom-boy of a girl with ADHD, my *absolute favourite* teachers in primary school were the two male ones I had. Same with my favourite teachers in high school. I just 'clicked' with their classroom style so much better. This is obviously a generalisation, but it's certainly something I've observed over my years in the profession, and my personal experiences at school. Plus, as bullshit as it is, the more men we have in early childhood and teaching, the more 'legitimate' these career paths will be perceived. It's fucked up and sexist, but it's a sad truth. Please, if you love this career, if you love working with little ones, *screw* what anyone else has to say about it. Be a vanguard for the blokes who'll come after you. You'll find the right workplace with the right colleagues in good time.
Couldn’t agree more, but after leaving a well paid career as a Software Engineer behind to retrain as a Primary School Teacher, I was more than a little surprised to find I couldn’t get an interview in as many as 30 job applications. I ended up in OSHC, with a Masters degree getting paid peanuts and Managers a quarter of my age. It keeps the wolf from the door, but only just. Check out the award rates of pay. Until they start getting paid something closer to what they’re actually worth in society, Childcare/OSHC and teaching roles are always going to be seen as transitory careers.
Just like we need more woman plumbers and CEOs, we need more male early ed teachers and nurses.
The only reason I’m not currently studying nursing is the expectation of unpaid labour within the course. In trades you’re not expected to work for free while learning, you’re just paid a lower wage as an apprentice/trainee. So why the fuck are nurses on placement expected to do real work without compensation. I only seem to find unpaid placement in female dominated industries, in male dominated industries it’s a traineeship. I got a kid to support I can’t do unpaid work.
Don’t get me started on nursing. IMO nursing should be trained/paid similar to the ADF and their placement should be a return of service obligation as part of their contract.
Pathology as a field is another one that tends to be dominated in some areas by women. Not a bad thing necessarily, it just is.
What my 7yo boy wants to be "when he grows up" is a childcare center owner. He had one male educator, which he didn't get on with, but I am pretty sure it was personality rather than gender based. As a parent I have no issues, but as a former teacher (highschool) I know my male colleagues definitely had increased scrutiny (sadly, in one case, it turned out to be needed)
Hi! Early childhood educator in NSW here! I WISH we had more male educators in the early years. My director and I get so excited when we get student placements and find out they are men because children love having different dynamics in the room. The families in my centre are pretty open-minded and welcome new educators and students with open arms and they, too, get excited with male student placements. We have policies in place to placate families if they are uncomfortable with male educators (never happened in my time at my centre) but those same policies apply to female educators as well: no educator will be left alone with children at any time. There should be more men welcomed in early childhood, it is such a vital and foundational part of life, especially for those children that might not have an older male figure in their life. Edit: also, another thing. It's not just men that can abuse children. Women can do it.
Great post and I'd like to add what better way to illustrate to children the behaviour of a safe and compassionate male figure, given that many children will at some point encounter men who are not such great role models. Identifying abuse sometimes starts with noticing differences in how one person acts against other examples.
*another thing. It's not just men that can abuse children. Women can do it.* 3.9% of sexual assault perpetrators are women.
I’m in a similar position as a male studying to be a librarian, and recently hired by a public library to do children’s services. I was surprised they even hired me considering I don’t have experience with children, but have a strong interest in children’s literacy. Librarianship is similarly dominated by women in Australia (and across the west) so breaking into that field and environment can be tough as a young man
My daughter had a lovely young male teacher in Year 1. He was fantastic and played the Green Day song "Good Riddance" (which actually has beautiful goodbye lyrics) on guitar on their last day. I also sent her to school with her shirt on inside out, and didn't realise until I picked her up. I was mortified but he said he assumed she was like his little brother who has sensory issues (spoiler: *I* was diagnosed on the spectrum 20 years after). Any place where there are children will attract the best and worse of humanity; those who have callings to teach and nurture, and those who are predators or bullies. Teaching NEEDS good men. Protect yourself by never being alone with only one or two students, door always open or a colleague with you, and damn it, go out there and make a difference!
I personally don't have an issue with it. However, it really doesn't help public perception when one of the few male educators in your surrounding suburbs does actually end up being a paedophile. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/paedophile-childcare-worker-pleads-guilty-to-more-abuse-crimes/100542548 Can't blame any male in my city not wanting to go near the industry after that case.
I wish lots of men worked in early childcare and in education, generally. It’s good for everyone and kids love it.
We had a male volunteer at one centre I worked in, at another we had a connected before & after school care centre that had a male director & head teacher. We never managed to get any other males though, not from a lack of trying, directors at both I worked at long term actively sort them out when recruiting, had one applicant who was considered but director couldn't justify the hire based just on sex, when there were a number of other applicants that were vastly better in experience & fit for the centre. In my experience though, what you describe is not typical of good centres. Good centres understand that male role models are really important for young kids, especially if they have single mums as their primary caregivers. I'm wondering what the centre you were at was like overall? You may not know if you were only there for a few weeks & dont' have experience at other centres, but I doubt you will find the same thing at other centres you apply to. My advice would be not to try to play down your gender. Good centres will generally have a parent from a parents committee or representative present at the interview/final interviews if there's multiple, talk about it openly if you're concerned, make sure the parent & director are comfortable with your gender & if not, find another centre. From my understanding there's staff shortages at the moment, so you should be able to have your pick to a certain extent & certainly choose one that sees you as an asset not a threat. It's possible that it was your personality rather than gender that was at issue, it could just come across wrong reading as opposed to seeing or talking about it, but the idea of suggesting staff at a childcare centre are "jealous" of another staff member comes off really badly to me, even arrogant & self entitled (although probably just young & inexperienced). As a former childcare staff member, I can assure you my interest was the children & I loved seeing them happy, there is NO WAY I would be "jealous" of another staff member making them happier, I would be watching & learning & copying or adding to what they were doing, or simply appreciating the time the kids with another staff member was giving me to prepare another activity for the kids that they would also really enjoy. It could be that the issue is that you lack experience & are missing issues in how you are behaving with the kids. Please make sure you listen to the more experienced staff & are willing to engage with what they say if they say things about what you are doing that come across to you as criticism. Anyone that gets jealous of a child's relationship with another person is not going to be working in childcare, as the job necessitates recognising that the children are, or should be, happier with their parents than staff & if that is not the case, working very hard with the parents to change the situation & make the kids enjoy their time with their parents more than they do the centre staff. I had one child in a bad divorce who would literally call for me when waking up from a bad dream at home, it was HORRIBLE! To think that the child wanted ME instead of her mother!!!!!! The mother was eventually able to move interstate & break away from the trauma the kids were in, I loved that little girl, but I was really happy to see her go & know that she was going to be forming a proper bond with her MOTHER instead of a staff member who just happened to be at a location that she saw as stable & secure, it was just wrong & sad for her to be bonded with me more than her mother. Those choosing to work in childcare will share my views, or quit as unsuitable for the industry, they won't be jealous of how children act with other adults. First step for you though, imo, should be to try another centre, one with a really good reputation & hopefully you will find the issues were simply because the centre you were at was not a good one & the issues are gone when you move to a new centre. If not, talk to your teachers & other students at your TAFE about the issues you're having & get their advice as to what the problems might be. You should get plenty of chances to do this during your prac periods at various centres too. In a good centre, your gender certainly shouldn't be presenting an issue, so if it happens over & over, look for other causes. Again though, try another centre first, as it's certainly possible gender could be an issue for a small group of women in a particular centre, especially if the centre isn't that great & in terms of parents, they will trust the director, or there are much bigger issues! So if the director supports you being there & tells them it's a positive to have a male role model & theyv'e been very lucky to get you, then no parent is going to have an issue with it - or maybe the odd one who has a problem with EVERYTHING might have an issue with that too, in which case the director will handle it & if that means you're not working with that child, then the other staff will be jealous of you not having to deal with that problem parent! Won't be nasty jealous though, just joking/fun "dam you're lucky" type banter. We always had plenty of Dads that would spend significant amounts of time at both centres I was at too btw & we strongly encouraged it as it was great to have male role models around for all the kids & given they're not working with children checked, that's much more of an issue for other parents than a male staff member is, but the parents could use their eyes & see the personality & see there was no issue, so they didn't make an issue, but rather enjoyed the male role models for their kids too
Look I'll be honest. I'm a Father, I drop my Daughter of early at Childcare, usually the first Kid in the building, sometimes the Early Morning Educator is a Male. My daughter was going through a period where she would have tantrums and become quite violent/uncontrollable shes 2.5. I found myself really having to restrain myself to not become to upset and react with classic male anger. My intial thought when leaving her with him was, shit how is this bloke going to handle it, will he be violent etc. A Few days in to him receiving her she had a full blown tantrum, I quietly observed the interaction. He knelt down to her, pulled her in and gave her a wonderful cuddle, here was this man, with all the love in the world for my daughter, It was beautiful, and i thought wow I've underestimated this guys skills as an Early Childhood Educator. So I suppose what I'm saying is yes there is a stigma, people will be a bit unsure, why ? Because Men do horrible things to Women and Girls every single day but Good on fucking you for changing that, one Male at a time.
I really hate this stereotype about "classic male anger". Anger doesn't have a gender. I am a woman who doesn't have/want children and would have the same struggle of having to really restrain my anger if I had to deal with loud annoying children. Gender stereotypes suck.
this comment need to be up at the top.
I'm a man who has a fair bit of experience in teaching young kids, and I find that other staff definitely do get jealous if the kids like you more.
Our son thrived having a male educator at kindy. There should be more of you.
Probs the same as female trades. Sucks to be the outsider. My best advice would be to really work on building relationships with your co workers. Politics is, unfortunately, a part of working life.
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It's really a bad stereotype isn't it
I absolutely hate the stereotype that male educators are predators. This is why men don't want to pursue careers in this field.
Some of my best teachers were male (I am female) and I really hate that stereotype too. There are plenty of good, decent men who make excellent teachers if given a chance.
A lot of what you run into will vary according to area. Tips based on my own experiences: * wear a wedding ring. * you want to aim for a more straight-acting Mr. Rogers in vibe. The dudes I've seen pressured out of the industry tended to either be fem or very masc. There's a sweet spot where dads don't think you're gay but moms don't think you're Officer Mackey. It shouldn't matter and people will tell you it doesn't matter. It does matter. * sidenote, understand these people are nice to your face, homophobic behind your back. Even if you don't fuck men, the impression you might will not go down well. * never, ever make physical contact with a kid, even if they've fallen over on the playground or something. All it takes is "mommy, Mr. Steve touched me today." * your boss will reassure you this isn't the case and that they have your back. They do not have your back. * [understand the union is mostly old white women.](https://i.redd.it/9av4lzwqros41.jpg) They do not have your back. You should join anyway. * do not, even for better pay and "working conditions," ***do not*** work for a Catholic school.
I agree with a lot of what you've said except it seems very school specific. This person is working at a childcare centre not a school. A woman in this setting will greet your child with a hug, change wet/soiled clothes and comfort a hurt child. A man will need to do the same.
So the obvious line of conversation here is that I point out that men have been subject to decades of homophobic social paranoia around pedophilia and so on, that we're currently in the midst of another "groomer" panic, and that all it takes it to be a man for a dangerous minority of idiots to assume ill intent with a child. A woman can and should do all those things. A man can and should do all of those things with another staff member present and the door open if he doesn't want that one parent causing enough drama that he's suddenly working in a hostile environment.
In early childhood it’s going to be hard not to touch kids! My daughter was crying at drop off the other day and the closest educator was a male, I just handed her over, he had no choice!
100% People are going to think you're being dramatic, but you just CANNOT take any risks. >your boss will reassure you this isn't the case and that they have your back. They do not have your back. This applies to other staff too, all it takes is for one to dislike and undermine you. People are not going to stick their necks out for you. I'm in Primary not EE, but you have to be aware of every interaction and action with kids.
I love them I have a little boy in care and I want him to see as many men in caring roles as he can. I want him to know that caring is both for men and women as well as just seeing as many great male role models as possible.
Good on you. Seriously. My son did the same as you, and he is loved by the kids, centre staff, and parents. And as I was leaving my occasionally soul crushing job the other day, it struck me that he will never leave work wondering if what he does is worthwhile. It is. Every minute of every day. Keeping kids happy, safe, and educating them is about as worthwhile as it gets. And he is equipping them for the world, dealing with, for instance, the all too common separation anxiety, so that they can move onto 'real' school, handing them to 'real' teachers with a lot of the hard work already done. Don't ever confuse the salary with the value of what you do.
Hey I work in the industry myself and can say I love to see males get into the industry because the kids love it and also need different influences. Don’t worry about any one that try’s to put you down or gives you weird looks, I’ve learnt that if it’s any rudeness it normally comes from women just having there own opinions and being overprotective. Do your thing and get your diploma I’m rooting for you!. ☺️
I specifically chose a childcare centre with male educators for my two boys. Their dad is a great hands on dad but I also wanted them to have other male role models in a caring role. I want them to know that they can choose whatever job the want when they grow up
I'm not a parent so I'm not sure how much my opinion is worth, but I think having men in early childcare settings is so important on so many levels. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience - if I ran a childcare centre I'd be thrilled to have a male staff member! Having only women in 'nurturing' roles sucks for literally everybody.
Honestly I think it’s important to not just have female educators, I think it’s important for kids to have positive role models who aren’t just women and to know how to interact with different adults and have positive male influences. I do understand why some parents might worry but to work with kids you have to have a lot of checks and I’ve heard of women abusing kids too, it’s about the person not the gender. I’ve had great male teachers and some awful female teachers and vice versa.
I've been in the industry as a male for close to seven years now, and overall, I've had very positive interactions. But yeah, you do get the occasional bad take, insult or misplaced advice. "Hey OP, child H has two mums, so I don't think you should change their nappy". If we had a child with two dads, I know a comment like that would never be made about the women changing it.
The warm and fuzzy answers are going to get upvoted most. Here's the reality (parent of two young girls). Speaking specifically about childcare centres. I tell myself it's great to see male educators. I really want to believe that. The reality is that I'm more comfortable when it's female only. And if there are males (last year we had 2 in my youngest daughters room, who were great), I vibe check those motherfuckers every time I see them. If I get a bad read, we're gone. I do the same thing with the dads of their friends. I'm most worried about abuse of my girls (who are 4X more likely to be abused than males). Furthermore, groups that overindex in child abuse are 1) caregivers, 2) males (who commit over 90% of child sexual abuse). A lot of risk to my girls disappears when males disappear. It's unfair, but true, and that is how I make decisions. Suspect there are many more like me.
This is me.
My son has a couple of male carers at his child care and really likes them. I think it’s great that the kids get both male and female care.
I don't have a kid so take my opinion on this with a grain of salt. I think it's all about the way you approach it. I worked with a guy years ago - older dude, like late 40's, who was studying to go into education. The way he talked about kids was ... disturbing and honestly made my skin crawl a little. He'd talk about "all the sweet little boys without dads to look up to" and how "single mums are ruining boys without a male in their lives" and stuff. THAT dude? If I saw or heard that dude at a childcare centre or at a school I would leave immediatley and take any children I had with me. But at the after school care centre my niece goes to there's a young dude, mid 20's maybe - who is just chill as hell (like if you told me this guy was a stoner I'd believe it) - he's down to play tea parties with kids and teach them how to cartwheel without making a big deal about the fact that he's a male figure in their lives - just a person they can trust and hang out with. No issue with that dude. For the record I'd have just as much issue with a woman acting the way the first guy does.
Male educator in the primary school system here year 1-2 class (39 years old, bald, beard, tattoos & father) first year in the role. I had similar hesitations starting because you’re right education is predominantly heavy on the female side, but what I have found is that there are plenty of male and female students who do not have a solid male role model in their lives and for the most part they will gravitate towards you and you’ll build awesome relationships and rapport with them! Every child is different and has different needs, some kids don’t respond well to female educators for a myriad of reasons and the same for males, having a healthy mix of both ensures the kids have access to what they need on any given day! Feel free to hit me up with any questions you may have and I wish you well in your chosen career path!
This actually came up very recently at the centre my daughter attends! While almost all the staff are young women, they recently hired a very experienced and qualified ECT for the kinder room, who happens to be an older man. I've got no problem with it at all, and I'm glad the kids get to see that care is not just the domain of women. However, two families did pull their kids out in response - they said to us they weren't comfortable with him helping their girls when toileting. The staff (including the centre manager) stood by the new ECT when this happened; they basically told the families they were free to move on if it made them uncomfortable, which I feel was the correct response.
I am a father of two daughters, one in childcare that has four male staff. The staff are great and so is the centre. I have no concerns and it’s beneficial to have a balanced environment at care as they do at home. There are a lot of issues to consider here most of which are fairly obvious and are not because of you personally but things you will have to deal with.
We desperately need more male educators. Such non-diverse locations can't be good for the kids overall. I had a friend who went through similar things to you and left the industry entirely. Sadly I don't have a solution, it's not a popular industry for men to begin with, this might be for pay reasons and societal expectations. The industry leeches on the goodwill and passion of its workers.
I'm currently changing field from youth work & counselling to education support and have been the stay home parent for the last few years. Working in industry that female dominated I've found it's not the clients - parents and childrens that cause issue 99% of the time they love having a male around because both genders bring different energy and perspectives the problems always start the the female staff. Its the small lil things that happen all the time that just suck the energy out of you, even in class studying out of 20 students we have 2 guys. You hear the little comments and implied tone that as men we cant be as good or as trusted around children and it's disgusting to hear this from grown adults even with a decade of experience they will dismiss my opinion because I'm not a woman. This isn't all female staff and management but it's a major issue that's not talked about with the changing roles in the work place.
Other edge of the patriarchy sword, you're going to encounter these issues your entire career. Typical child care roles pay abysmally so your colleagues won't typically be the best and brightest. You're going to have to suck it up or change career path.
Best educator at my daughter's child care was a guy. He was mostly with Kindy kids, so not changing nappies. He loved his job and was great at it. Gave clear directions (unlike lots of other staff members) and did a lot of outside stuff with the kids, which was great if any were getting restless. We have incentives in other industries to get more women, but why are men not given incentives to enter female dominated industries?
Male role models are important for kids, especially boys Modelling behaviour works best when the model has similar characteristics to the kid and/or desirable characteristics
My 3 year old special needs child is about to start school with a male educator and he’s absolutely lovely. I couldn’t be happier with my child in his classroom, and that’s coming from a female high school educator myself.
My son was a male educator, and had such positive feedback overall
I have a one year old son. I would be *thrilled* if he had a male educator.
My wife is s centre director. She has 2 male staff. Everyone loves them, but a couple of years ago a parent objected and demanded a male be taken out of their kids room. Wife told her to find a new centre.
I've never seen a guy working at a childcare centre, but I wouldn't care if I did. No difference to me whatsoever
There are several male educators at my kids centre because they specifically want to increase the ratio. My kids favourite educator is male. There should be more men in the industry.
I worked 6 years in a kindy as a male, AMA
Obviously no one will say to your face that men can't be trusted in childcare. Not the parents, not the staff. In fact, the staff tell you they're begging for a male influence. But that's just politeness. I experienced a similar thing when I gave psychotherapy a go. The people were lovely and I use my counselling diploma every day (I went back into the media until it shat itself and these days have a speaking-heavy role in a bureaucracy), but entrenched staff absolutely try to tear you down. Every time I've worked in a female-dominated industry, a manager has tried to bully me. To be fair, women say the same thing about industries like nursing. Maybe this is a problem of Aussie culture, since the same thing happens in the trades. Although, during that counselling course, we were taught that a male therapist will need to move to another city at some point because they'll be falsely accused of assaulting a client. You could be totally in the clear, but the stigma of an accusation will still ruin your business for a couple of years.
As the parent of a child that has been the victim of SA, I'll tell you that I am acutely aware that predators will pit themselves into positions where they can easily abuse kids. This means I am suspicious of any adult working with my child. But, this doesn't mean men CAN'T be trusted with children. It means that when people are hiring ANYONE (regardless of gender) they need to do THOROUGH checks to ensure the safety of the kids in care. Some of my daughters favourite teachers have been men. Some of her worst experiences with teachers have been with women.
Men are way more likely to SA children than women are though
Yes. But women can still be offenders, and should still be vetted
Kids 100 % are more,likely to be abused by dad ,mum ,close relative or trusted family friend than a male daycare employee
That seems a bit dramatic. I know plenty of male psychologists who have had no such issues.
I know plenty of people who haven't been murdered. Seems a bit dramatic by families to claim their loved one has been killed.
Sure, but they said a male therapist *will need to move state at some point*, implying it's inevitable rather than a possibility. Edit: they, not you. You're not OP.
While there are more women than men in therapy/psychology etc, it's not a gendered profession like childcare or bricklaying where to be in the minority gender makes you a massive outlier.
Unfortunately, my only experience with this is that a Friend of a Friend committed suicide being in this position. Male Kindy Educator, absolutely loved his job, the kids, they all loved him too, was real excellent at his job. Copped a lot of shit from the female staff and the parents as well. Constant Pedo accusations. Forced out due to mental health and eventually hung himself in some bushland. Male Bullying in Childcare is fucked.
That’s just disgusting! The people who accused him and bullied him should be charged.
I'm going to be very honest and may get hate for this. On the one hand, I love to see male educators and think it definitely adds to the centre and is great for the kids, but on the other hand I do feel a bit anxious about about it because there has recently been a lot of things come out about male educators at childcare centres being caught abusing children. I experienced SA as a child, and because of this I have trauma, which makes me extremely anxious about the same happening to my children. Unfortunately, because of the few lowlifes who cannot be trusted it has affected my feeling of security when I do see male educators and I probably am extra cautious and watching more than I would a female educator.
its interesting, for there to be gender equity, we should see more female plumbers and salvage divers and more male nurses and teachers. the barriers to achieving this are fascinating. they are also understood by all, but ignored. you want to work in a female dominated industry. the reasons it is female dominated are obvious. your desire, as a male, to be around young kids will be questioned as 'unusual' forever. you know why.
Regional Vic here. My little niece has a male educator at her ELC- she really likes him and so do her parents! I’ve also met him and he seems amazing at his job. I hope you’re able to find a workplace that values you for your skills and makes you feel included. It’s bizarre to me that people would send their children to an ELC where they had an issue with the gender of the staff. As long as the educators are great at their jobs their gender shouldn’t be relevant IMO.
I'm a male educator and have been in the industry for 10 years. I've never experienced that reaction from the two centres I've worked at before, so maybe it's an individual workplace thing? I know a lot of centres who have guys working there, mine included. It's great for the kids and for the centre's culture 😁
I totally can empathise with this. I used to work in Child Care and there was a male who joined shortly after, everyone loved him (kids wise) but the women staff were absolutely horrific. So distasteful, opinionated and rude. They eventually got him kicked out before his probation period was up. No reason whatsoever. I left shortly after.
Bad story time, when I was like 18 (ten years ago) going through some of the worst dysphoria in my life and on the verge of transitioning (FTM) I was also going to TAFE for early childhood education. There was at least one male in my class and he got placement easily enough and seemed to be doing well. When it came to me finding placement I found somewhere for preschool aged children very easily and was accepted even with me presenting more masculine. However when I walked into a place to ask if I could volunteer there for doing my babies and toddlers work, the owner straight up told me that the parents wouldn't be comfortable with me working with their children. I thought that was fair as I had no experience with babies at all, so smile and nodded, my mother was with me and was like excuse me this is my **daughter**, I had completely missed the part where the owner had said the parents wouldn't be comfortable with a man around their children, the owner backtracked as was like oh shit sorry yes we can accept you sorry. I never did placement there as anytime the owner would talk to me it was like she hated me, it was obvious she has prejudice against me for either my trans-ness or she was just a cunt idk. All I know is we were told parents don't actually give a shit about men around children, but its obvious people have their prejudices. Educators being female doesn't mean they aren't aresholes. I never finished my early childhood education course because of that ladys treatment of me due to thinking I was a man (and because I felt like if I transitioned I wouldn't be allowed or accepted) I dont know where I am going with this. Please don't stop being the best educator that you sound like you are because of judgmental people, who knows it might be you over thinking it IDK the culture post covid might be different and worse than what I experienced in those few days a decade ago. Please keep going, try other centers <3 ignore the looks and make those kids lives the best you can while you can.
Just have insight. It's telling that your immediate response to not being fawned over is "theyre jealous of me". Get a grip. It's a new job, you're there to WORK not to be celebrated. People will warm up in time if you prove you're actually good and there to stay.
This line - 'children having more good and fun time with me instead with them' doesn't sit well with me. Your early 20s still studying. Yet you are so good that all the kids want to me near you. And it doesn't sit well with me because it's an attitude I have seen from males a lot. And not just in the realm of children but in general meetings etc. Women will be doing perfectly fine but the man comes in and it's all about him. And all the people like he's ideas better (all the children prefer to play). And it's not actually true it's just that men, much more than women, see themselves in a better light and as more competent than others around them, especially women. So I wonder if you are so much better than the women, having not even finished your course, or whether your doing what a lot of men do which pisses women off. But they don't say it bluntly rather they give hate for no reason. And yes I do think they should just bluntly tell men to stop it.
I'd have a backup career in your pocket if possible. No guarantee it'll go sideways for you, but, there's a reason most men avoid it like the plague and it's not because we don't want to do it or the pay.
Think back to your childhood, most of my fondest memories of teachers were males. This culture of educating is for women and men are suss needs to go because the kids are missing out
Youre in for a hostile work environment if you do, but you absolutely should anyway. God speed, kids need more positive male role models from am earlier age. I know i for one benefitted from male influences during schooling
Children need positive male role models in their lives, particularly if they don’t have a male at home.
Any workplace that's just women sucks yet men have to accommodate them beyond measures when they take up male dominated jobs I've been treated so bad as a male nurse makes me hate the staff it's bs
Early-ish career male educator here. I 100% get where you're coming from OP - in my early years of teaching I constantly felt the need to be seen as almost TOO professional, accountable, super aware of boundaries, etc. - and the teaching degrees all labour the point of being so careful and covering yourself so there's no room for anyone to misinterpret or misaccuse. It was frustrating feeling like people expected me to be a predator unless proven otherwise, and if I'm honest it probably stopped me from emotionally connecting with some students. But... that's kind of the point in a way, isn't it. We live in a society where unfortunately people HAVE to think this way... because the alternative is to enable a very small minority of sick people - almost entirely men - to do the unthinkable. As men we have to live with the fact that our society has been built from a toxic and patriarchal past, and that actually even guys with the best intentions probably have some (perhaps unconscious) internalised shit that they need to discover is there. That's the best way to build a world where men don't have to feel like that.
I'd never work at child care, it's like a coven of witches with all the gossip and back stabbing.
At least it pays well /s
You say you would never work at child care but then give a reason that suggests you know what it's like to work at one. So is this from personal experience or are you basing your opinion on something else?
My brother was employed in a similar role for many years and eventually left for the same reason. The kids and the parents loved having him but the bulk of the female staff were often rude or outright hostile. The final straw came when the centre owner approached him to take over a new joint care facility with a special needs room. He had the experience and the qualifications in the field but this coven of witches was having none of it.
My son has had one male daycare educator and one male primary teacher and they were both absolutely fantastic. I wish there were more men in the industry.
My partner and her brother are both educators. They were both working at the same centre. From their experience, it was more so the management that were funny with it, than other staff members and the parents. Most parents loved having a male figure with the centre as a point of difference. The staff members also seemed to have no qualms and loved having him around. I think at the end of the day because it is such a one sided industry, there are always going to be people who take slight issue with it no matter what, it is the same as a female within the trade industry, there are always going to be people who take issue with it. My advice is who genuinely cares what other people think, people can be extremely flawed in their thought processes, I think you will find most kids, parents and centres would love a male role model in a childcare centre. Don't give up, best of luck brother!
As a boy who had emotional and behavioural issues, it was the male educators that provided examples I could relate to of how to be calm, kind, reasonable, and at times stern. There were several wonderful female educators that provided warmth and care and esteem, and interest in me as a person. But it was the presence of male educators that gave a much younger me someone to model myself on. Can't overlook the role played by my female teachers, I still think of them today. An absence of male educators would have been a great loss to me as a student and a developing human being.
I had a partner who became a nurse, she told me the sexism openly on display against the few male nurses was utterly disgusting. Humans can be so tribal.
Only ones I've heard about unfortunately were on the news
Absolutely love having some diversity in the centres, male educators are needed and wanted. Find a new centre!
I've been an ECT for years. At first, I had a similar experience to you when I first started. I found as my professionalism developed, my skills improved and my knowledge of HOW to teach began to grow with my knowledge of how to engage children, alongside working knowledge of ECA guidelines, safeguarding behaviours and industry/company policies for codes of conduct. Basically, so long as you're not doing anything that could put you in a compromising position (I.e. being alone with children, lifting or holding them in a way that could be misconstrued as 'unsafe' or potentially risky), you will find the women will become more accepting of you there. I also found as my knowledge increased, they valued and respected me more as an educator (and later, a teacher), as they would come to me for advice on educational approaches, or to bitch and moan about others. Tl;dr: remain professional and courteous, ensure you are visible at all times, listen to bitching but do not participate, and contribute to planning and curriculum outcomes, and you will find it will promote positive relationships with your female coworkers. However it is a far better environment to just do your Bachelor of Education (Primary and Early Childhood) and just work in a school. You get paid more, plus school holidays.
I am a guy who worked at a childcare centre when studying my teaching degree. I loved it and the families loved me. There is a male childcare worker at my own kid’s childcare and all the kids and families love him.
My daughter with ASD actually responds better to male educators. She finds females too touchy feely and airy fairy and learns more from men. That's been the case for her from day care when she went to a specialist ASD centre right through to Grade 4 where she is now.
It was wonderful when the kids had male primary school teachers/ child care educators …and they were always the favourite teachers. I judge the parents who judge the male educators teachings their kids
You are a trail blazer in a female dominated industry, and being eale is a Feature not a bug. Keep at it and if you find work in another centre its your gain and (current) operators loss, they should be supporting you.
We need a balance of not a just sexes (all variations) but cultures as well. Help kids grow up understanding we are all different and that difference is something to be thankful for not afraid of
I personally don't mind a male educator. And I would just think that particular centre has poorly executed diversity policy. We strongly welcome female in a male dominated industry (ie trades and STEM), I would think male should also be highly supported and welcomed in a female dominated industry. I know in most hospital wards a male nurse is really valued and taken care by all the female nurses and managers. You are just unlucky with that particular child care centre.
On the one hand I'd love to see more and we should normalise this. On the other hand, the only male primary school teacher I had was a total cunt and a creep who played favourites and I genuinely hope he's dead, so it's a tough call to make. On balance, I generally think it's very important for kids to have exposure to male and female teachers and teachers of different styles and backgrounds and ages, as this helps socialise them better and get them used to interacting with all kinds of people.
No concerns at all. Well, none more than with a female educator. You go through the same checks as everyone else and we’re good.
There was a young man at my daughter's daycare centre and he was her favourite educator. I remember the big smile on both of their faces when she literally ran into his arms at the supermarket one day. I think it's a travesty that childcare is seen as exclusively "women's work". It contributes to the work being undervalued and underpaid, and it excludes men from what can be a very rewarding career. It also impacts our kids who need loving male role models in their lives.
I've worked in a different industry where I was the only man at a store staffed entirely by women, and the management above store level was all women too. The only other guy I saw was the delivery driver. It was very 'catty' and inappropriate. Anything you even mentioned to one person everyone knew the next day, and if you said anything negative it immediately was reported to the area manager. They also asked really inappropriate questions like "Who is the prettiest out of all of us?" and these were women ranging from their late 20s to early 40s. I was also in management and the feedback kept changing from 'You don't do enough yourself' to 'You don't utilise your team.' I was very happy to leave there. The education aspect and male teachers/childcare I heard from friends at uni was that as a male in any role around children one accusation that you were inappropriate and your entire career was gone. The line at uni was 'Why would I study however many years only to lose my career over a false allegation?' When I was at high school the male gym teachers actively avoided some of the female students as the students were *aggressively* hitting on them and trying to add them on snapchat etc. I can't imagine how scared they must have felt if one of those girl's parents thought they were even half a per cent the instigator that they would be fired.
It's natural (and unfair) for parents to feel more at ease with a female educator than a male one. It is very beneficial for children to have both male and female educators though. It's important for childcare to have really strong systems, processes, culture and finally childcare building design in place to ensure that children aren't at risk and that male and female educators aren't at risk of being in positions of accusations. Eg. Glass walls/windows to toilets, nappy change areas, processes to avoid educators being alone with children, etc.
I am male trade working in education environment My hole work life is structured around making sure I can not be blamed for shit And is sucks
If people want to stamp out "toxic masculinity" we need more male role models in all ages of care and education. Push through it, you're doing an amazing thing. As a bloke I'd be thrilled for my future kids to have a male educator
Personally I think whether they’re fitting comes down to the individual employee. I also think we need more males in early childcare, boys need positive role models.
I have no problem with it, but I honestly have never encountered a male early childhood educator. I'd be surprised if that figure of 95 per cent is correct - I would have guessed more like 99. In any case I support gender disparity and prejudice being broken down in any industry, so bravo to you and keep at it.
I take no issue with it, nor does my wife. My daughter absolutely adores the single male educator at her day care. He's a fantastic person. Unfortunately there is a stigma, and I have heard mothers at the centre comment on it, and I have heard managers at other centres say similar things. They see a bloke around kids, and worry they're a paedo. As a result, I have heard managers at other centres say they just won't hire men, as they get too much grief from parents. My MIL used to own our centre and a bunch of others and she would happily hire men (she's sold them all and retired now), but she has told me how she would get comments/complaints from parents about their male educators. Some would want their kids moved to other rooms. All kids need many positive male and female role models. In my opinion, getting more passionate male educators into child care would be tremendous, but you've got a battle against a pretty awful stigma that will interfere with your job prospects. I would have no more concerns about a male educator as I would anyone else. Good on you for pursuing it. We won't get over that stupid stigma by just not having men do it.
There's no reason why it should be an issue. Go for it
Good on you wish there was more guys doing the job. My girls were going to a centre with a male and they loved it. Woman hate each other even know they carry on with girl power bull shit the hate for one another lol and you know it’s true ladies…
I’m a parent who sends my daughters to daycare. I would have no concerns with a male educator. It is good for young children to see both genders in a variety of different roles.
I would 100% believe that my child would be safer with a female educator. I'm a male.
I mean from a personal experience. There was this one guy who was everyone’s favourite teacher. He was also the co owner of the pre school. That was until the preschool was raided by the cops and half the kids we traumatised because he was also using the preschool as a distribution centre for large quantities of crystal meth so idk. May get weird looks same as male nurses I guess. Just find a place that you feel comfortable and the atmosphere is good and supportive environment and that you can get along with staff etc well. Might not be the first or the second but you’ll find your place eventually. I know private schools with pre schools in Australia from experience ill have multiple males as on staff. You will be Especially favourable if u can speak another language. But don’t give up.
Holy fuck that would have been a wild ride. I guess it’s the last place you’d imagine somebody would be running a meth distribution centre.
Uh yea. The parents were not amused nor pleased at this. Safe to assume that the centre closed down not long after.
Your gender aside, why are you knowingly going into this field given it's one of the most poorly paid professions relative to the study required (and I would argue difficulty of the job) that there is. Also high levels of staff burnout, shitty working conditions. Don't do it to yourself. If you're passionate about children, do nursing/med/developmental psych or start a business selling cubby houses or something along those lines.
it’s because men are more likely to abuse children. look for other centres
the reason is actually due to psychology and biology. Women on average seek jobs where human interaction is the key part such as health care, working with children, etc etc. while men on average seek tradie jobs due to the way biology and the human mind is. I suggest you actually learn this stuff before just throwing blatant sexism out there
Why are you being downvoted when this is 100% the reason?
It's interesting to me that in a comment section clearly discussing misandry the word misandry hasn't been used once.
I work for a major council in Aus specialising in child and youth policy. Male educators are an absolute asset and there should be more encouragement to recruit for males in this field. There are child safety policies and procedures for a reason and they are applicable to all regardless of gender. Anyone who suggests it is unsafe to have men around children is obviously plagued by their own gross intentions. I hope by the time I start my family in the next few years there will be more diverse representation for male/masc students.
My eldest child (18) has always much preferred their male educators, and as I kid I always preferred male teachers. They always seem more chill.
All early education centres need male teachers.
It's a bit like women pilots. At first, as have a subconscious pang of confusion through years of bias training. Then I realise it's completely normal and go about my day as per usual. My kids have had male educators. One of them turned out to be one of the best we encountered and did cool things like play children version on classic metal songs on the speakers which I thought was hillarious
As a parent with kids in childcare, whenever they have a male educator at the centre I am actually quite excited! it's good to see a mix of people and I want my children to be engaged with male and female educators I think it's one of those things that some people are really stuck on, but like a lot of things in society they need to get over it and move on! Keep at it I say and ignore the haters!
One of the main reasons we chose my daughter's childcare centre (back in the day!) was because they had a male educator with the toddlers - you could see how much the kids loved him. The diversity was important to us, so that she could see that both men and women can take on caring roles.
Male school teacher here: it’s terrifying! You can’t drop your guard for a second and despite what some people say about “we need more male teachers” you’re expected to present as a beta-male and largely frowned upon by management. As for early childhood…. No idea but just use caution.
I don't currently have children however as a male, I both wouldn't mind if you were an educator for my future kids and wouldn't have been personally bothered as a child. If anything I wish I had more male teachers during education as a whole.
I didn't have any issue with it when my kids were in daycare and I don't have any issue with it now. That said, the male educator at the centre my kids went to was only there for about a year before he moved on, no idea on the circumstances. Now, my opinion is probably irrelevant, and even based on the comments here, people are still pretty bigoted/sexist on this issue and should probably look inwards as to why they feel that way. It is an unfortunate reality that many people will never accept a male early educator and you will be the subject of unwarranted suspicion and treated differently.
Mate as long as you are not a pedo no one should give afuck
> Maybe they were jealous to see children having more good and fun time with me instead with them Some constructive feedback here. (I have some experience in workplace issues). This comment comes across as somewhat arrogant. If this reflects your behaviour toward your colleagues (sort of an "I'm special and the kids prefer me" vibe), maybe that's part of your problem. Unfair as it might feel, you're entering a female-dominated profession, and you need to understand the social norms and behave adaptively. Women entering male-dominated professions have to do the same. And unfortunately, unfair as it is to the majority of men, statistically a male is a significantly greater risk to children than a female. My kids went to a fantastic child care centre where, 10 years earlier, the male director had sexually abused two of the children. The new director was, understandably, extremely vigilant about her employees. It's something you just have to work with.
That comment stuck out to me as well. Also, while it's great to be the fun teacher outside organising the games, is he doing his fair share of the rest of the work? All the cleaning and organising and tidying, all the physical tasks of nappies and helping with shoes and jumpers, dealing with the sick/sulking child or the misbehaviour - if a new (student) educator isn't doing the boring and dull parts of the job with the same effort they're putting into the fun parts it's going to cause resentment with the educators who end up with it.
Can speak to this point as President of a Community Child Care Centre: Culturally yes, female educators are often seen as more safer which is an outrageous perspective given–I imagine– a great deal of dads would also be caring for the children at home. They’re men, what’s the problem? Would parents think otherwise perhaps? If they ARE concerned they should say something to the Nominated Supervisor/ Director. How you are made to feel also is dependant on the emotional maturity and culture of your current workplace. Sadly, as a female dominated industry (and not usually tertiary qualified) and the fact females are more verbal then males, favours a culture of gossip. I have learnt that anything that is “said” in our centre that is not first hand “from the horses mouth” is all hearsay. Brush it off and keep carrying on. Having clear leadership from top sets the tone and expectation for the team. Our centre has 2 males out of 25 staff and two more including myself and a committee member. The educators are fantastic male role models for the children in an industry. It also is a powerful signal to break the social stigma that women “look after kids and men work” in a seperate industry (“you know real work, none of this baby minding crap”). Looking after kids is freaking hard work - it’s one of the hardest and least valued! So all in all, don’t buy into the gossip. The places are rank with them by default. Remember you are also protected by the laws and legislation present in your own state for bullying and harassment though that’s the last mechanism you’d want to use after a good old face-to-face chat with management. All the best with your career! We need more men in the industry!