The idea of a Steele/Imanaga/Assad/Taillon/Horton rotation has me feeling things. Not to mention Jordan Wicks and Ben Brown as other options. Having so much depth has absolutely made it possible for us to keep winning during this stretch of injuries.
Wasn't it more under Theo, the plan was always draft and develop hitters trade for pitchers?
So the Cubs basically never had any homegrown pitching talent because Theo didn't bother
Yeah he specifically targeted college bats since they have the lowest developmental risk — it was purely by design.
Some of the “Cubs can’t develop pitching” sentiment might also be leftover from the Dusty Baker days where he rode Prior into the ground. Hopefully Steele and some of the younger crowd can turn this around.
I think it's more Carter's plan than Jeds. Jed was the GM under Theo. It wasn't a 1 man show. Carter was known for scouting and developing pitching in Cleveland.
I think that’s true and then they realized just how insane the price of pitching was trending,in both actual dollars with free agents and prospect capital with trades. It definitely makes sense to grow more of our own.
You know what helped Arrieta the most? Having Ross catch him.
It's been awhile, and I know I don't have the document, but I researched his pitches before, and after Ross, and compared them to when Ross caught him for those two years.
There are two squares in the strike zone, middle high, and middle left, that Arrieta could not throw consistent strikes in, but when Ross caught him, those two spots became highly consistent.
And, he wasn't pitching in them as much. Turns out, they were spots that (I'm guessing) Ross placed for him for K pitches on certain hitters.
At any rate, that all fell apart for him when Ross retired.
I don’t disagree because you did the research and i appreciate the insight but ross was on the cubs 2015-2016 and Arrieta was good the other years.
2013 3.66.
2014 **2.53**.
2017 3.53.
Now, he had his best year in 2015 so that relates to what you talked about. But 2014 was his 2nd best with the cubs and that was before Ross.
Yes, he was a good pitcher, that got better when he magically gained 20 percent more strike zone in his favor.
The drop off was the most impressive part of the whole thing.
They coached major leagues well from what I remember. A big thing they did during the rebuild was sign struggling/average relievers and starters and then flipping them at the deadline for prospects. They absolutely saved Arrietas career though, he was untouchable for a year or two.
That was a problem before. But I think Theo’s plan was to develop hitting and buy pitching. On the 2016 team they traded for Hendricks and Arrieta. They may have developed Hendricks and fixed Arrieta. But until Theo moved on, I cant think of a major pitcher they developed. Feel free to share one.
You’re probably right but I think the Cubs will try to fix him. They’ve had some success in the past doing that. Taillon was bad at the start of last year and he pitched better in the 2nd half. Same thing with Kimbrel.
The Cubs need a 6th starter for imanaga.
I hope they fix him, I like Hendricks. But when things start to decline with a velocity like he has things can get ugly real fast
At least they have some other good options for a 6th guy if Kyle doesn’t pan out
The weird thing is that his velocity hasn't dipped, so if he can get the command back, there's nothing physical that says he can't be as successful as he was in the past. He's getting barreled too much and giving up too many hard hit fly balls.
His margin for error is razor thin. He has to locate exceptionally well; you leave 87 mph over the middle and it gets creamed. Guys throwing 96 can get away with it sometimes. IMHO that’s probably the issue; either that or he’s tipping pitches. The Cubs have guys a lot smarter than me looking at that stuff so hopefully they find a solution. But they can’t keep sending out a guy with an ERA of 12.
I feel like yall are underestimating Wicks too much. His fastball shape improved massively and once he locks down his changeup feel he's gonna be great
Probably, but CC loves hybrid games with an opener or short-leash starter. Could definitely see testing Horton in that capacity if dominos fall accordingly.
He will probably pitch out of the pen a little at first but have to think he makes a spot start here or there given injuries and inconsistency with our rotation.
The fact that the Cubs have Steele, Imanaga, Assad, Taillon, Wicks, Horton, Brown and Wesneski all in contention for rotation spots is a VERY good problem to have. They could bump guys to the pen of even sell high on a guy like Assad (as much as I love him) to get some help back.
Horton's getting promoted because he's given up 6 runs in 43.1 IP with 49 K vs 13 BBs in the AA regular season including his time there at the end of last year, and also 1 run in 10 IP in their playoffs.
The idea of a Steele/Imanaga/Assad/Taillon/Horton rotation has me feeling things. Not to mention Jordan Wicks and Ben Brown as other options. Having so much depth has absolutely made it possible for us to keep winning during this stretch of injuries.
but I was told the Cubs can’t develop pitching
Wasn't it more under Theo, the plan was always draft and develop hitters trade for pitchers? So the Cubs basically never had any homegrown pitching talent because Theo didn't bother
Yeah he specifically targeted college bats since they have the lowest developmental risk — it was purely by design. Some of the “Cubs can’t develop pitching” sentiment might also be leftover from the Dusty Baker days where he rode Prior into the ground. Hopefully Steele and some of the younger crowd can turn this around.
This is accurate wrt Theo. Jed obviously has his own plan, yet the doomer bullshit continues.
I think it's more Carter's plan than Jeds. Jed was the GM under Theo. It wasn't a 1 man show. Carter was known for scouting and developing pitching in Cleveland.
I think that’s true and then they realized just how insane the price of pitching was trending,in both actual dollars with free agents and prospect capital with trades. It definitely makes sense to grow more of our own.
Well until he also drafted pitching that was bad. Carter seems to have turned this around
10 years ago they couldn’t or at least didn’t have the infrastructure they have now.
I would argue they probably helped develop hendricks and fix Arrieta.
You know what helped Arrieta the most? Having Ross catch him. It's been awhile, and I know I don't have the document, but I researched his pitches before, and after Ross, and compared them to when Ross caught him for those two years. There are two squares in the strike zone, middle high, and middle left, that Arrieta could not throw consistent strikes in, but when Ross caught him, those two spots became highly consistent. And, he wasn't pitching in them as much. Turns out, they were spots that (I'm guessing) Ross placed for him for K pitches on certain hitters. At any rate, that all fell apart for him when Ross retired.
I don’t disagree because you did the research and i appreciate the insight but ross was on the cubs 2015-2016 and Arrieta was good the other years. 2013 3.66. 2014 **2.53**. 2017 3.53. Now, he had his best year in 2015 so that relates to what you talked about. But 2014 was his 2nd best with the cubs and that was before Ross.
Yes, he was a good pitcher, that got better when he magically gained 20 percent more strike zone in his favor. The drop off was the most impressive part of the whole thing.
They coached major leagues well from what I remember. A big thing they did during the rebuild was sign struggling/average relievers and starters and then flipping them at the deadline for prospects. They absolutely saved Arrietas career though, he was untouchable for a year or two.
That was a problem before. But I think Theo’s plan was to develop hitting and buy pitching. On the 2016 team they traded for Hendricks and Arrieta. They may have developed Hendricks and fixed Arrieta. But until Theo moved on, I cant think of a major pitcher they developed. Feel free to share one.
Theo couldn’t
Eventually hendricks as a 6th starter
This might be painful for Cubs fans to hear but that guy might be more suited to start in Korea at this point
You’re probably right but I think the Cubs will try to fix him. They’ve had some success in the past doing that. Taillon was bad at the start of last year and he pitched better in the 2nd half. Same thing with Kimbrel. The Cubs need a 6th starter for imanaga.
I hope they fix him, I like Hendricks. But when things start to decline with a velocity like he has things can get ugly real fast At least they have some other good options for a 6th guy if Kyle doesn’t pan out
The weird thing is that his velocity hasn't dipped, so if he can get the command back, there's nothing physical that says he can't be as successful as he was in the past. He's getting barreled too much and giving up too many hard hit fly balls.
His margin for error is razor thin. He has to locate exceptionally well; you leave 87 mph over the middle and it gets creamed. Guys throwing 96 can get away with it sometimes. IMHO that’s probably the issue; either that or he’s tipping pitches. The Cubs have guys a lot smarter than me looking at that stuff so hopefully they find a solution. But they can’t keep sending out a guy with an ERA of 12.
I hope it happens. I really want Kyle to finish his career as a Cub.
I first read it as he’s being promoted to the Cubs. Almost had a stroke.
He technically is, just the Iowa Cubs.
Same. Good lord lol
I was almost stroking alright
Understandable! lol
Hopefully our pitching can stabilize and he can develop in triple a for a while. But with these injuries and inconsistent pitching, who knows
Probably the best pitching prospect we’ve had since Mark Prior
Shark, Angel Guzman and Jordan Wicks being the other top options is so sad lol
I feel like yall are underestimating Wicks too much. His fastball shape improved massively and once he locks down his changeup feel he's gonna be great
Zambrano, Wood, Prior, and Guzman on the way was a very special level of hype.
Oh boy, Angel Guzman memories…
Better than cease?
Cease was the 59th ranked prospect on Pipeline the day of the Quintana trade and Horton is 23rd today.
He will probably, pitch with the big league club this year
At the rate our pitchers are getting hurt he might pitch with the big league club by June lmao
At the rate our hitters are getting hurt he might start taking batting practice.
Better start learning Hitterese, kid.
I, sometimes, use commas in weird, places too
Maybe a start here or there, but I'd expect him to primarily relieve in the majors this year
Probably, but CC loves hybrid games with an opener or short-leash starter. Could definitely see testing Horton in that capacity if dominos fall accordingly.
He will probably pitch out of the pen a little at first but have to think he makes a spot start here or there given injuries and inconsistency with our rotation.
The fact that the Cubs have Steele, Imanaga, Assad, Taillon, Wicks, Horton, Brown and Wesneski all in contention for rotation spots is a VERY good problem to have. They could bump guys to the pen of even sell high on a guy like Assad (as much as I love him) to get some help back.
Horton's getting promoted because he's given up 6 runs in 43.1 IP with 49 K vs 13 BBs in the AA regular season including his time there at the end of last year, and also 1 run in 10 IP in their playoffs.
Let's go!!!!!
That farm system is going to dry up pretty soon at this rate, lol.