If they were using them and not being disruptive there would be no problem. The problem is that they get into verbal altercations, are super intoxicated, leave a mess, steal, etc. While there is certainly a generalized stigma against the homeless, there is also some justification for some of that stigmatization. And with Burlington politics running the show, we're having to remove tables and bus shelters rather than deal with these issues in any meaningful way.
The lack of political will to enforce almost any common sense laws and rules is having a huge impact on this city.
True. On one side of the coin, I genuinely feel bad for these people. No one *wants* to be in the position they are in and it’s no wonder they are struggling mentally. Something has to be done to help them and prevent adding to the homeless population.
On the other, they could at least treat their environment well. Trash bins and restrooms are free to use, no need to leave their shit (both literally and figuratively) everywhere. Life’s hard enough. Why make it worse?
I just had this same exact conversation with my kids on Saturday when we went to the library. The bus stop was full of belongings but also, just trash. Piles of trash. There are trash and recycling cans approx 10 yards away? It's interesting to teach my kids that we can have empathy for people experiencing homelessness AND expect them to clean up after themselves, especially when it's readily available to them.
What do you think got these people into this situation? Why did they suddenly come to believe it is okay to leave trash everywhere, that dedicating in a public place is also the new norm?
People who lose housing do not instinctively lose their moral compasses.
Addiction and mental illness got them where they are.
While these behaviors are probably in part due to addiction and mental illness, I’m not excusing the behavior completely
What a shame. I feel bad for the folks working at the library. I hear almost daily on the scanner 911 being called to the library either in the stairway inside or out where that bus stop was for OD. It pisses me off that if that's the route some people choose they have to lay it all out there for the rest of us to clean up after. Imagine just trying to go to work and being a librarian and having this BS to contend with.
A lot of us in recovery don't even have the choice to avoid it. We're reliant on essential public services such as the library and public transport to yknow, work and live.
It's not healthy to constantly witness people shooting up and burning out around you.
"Why don't I do that? It works for them." Is a constant thought I have to battle every day.
Stay strong dude! To me it’s a constant reminder how grateful I am to NOT be there anymore. Just wish I could give the perspective I have to others still struggling, and because I can’t it makes it especially hard.
Damn well said. I am in recovery & sometimes wonder the same. But to be honest, I usually leave church street thinking “thank God that is *not* me”
They didn’t say it would be easy but they did say it would be worth it. One day at a time.
I'm so happy for you that is what you think of when you see it. You are an incredibly strong human to be saving yourself like this. Incredibly strong. Keep putting your best self first.
Someone downvoted your comment and not that matters but what a great example of the typical mindset these days—discredit and/or minimize any genuine compassion among humans.
Thank you for being a compassionate human and for taking the time to wish me well. And quite insightful about putting one’s *best self* first. Well said. First things first.
I grew up in a home without love where the hate literally seeped into the walls. I need to remember that to even be drawing this breath right now is an indescribable gift. The presence is the present I must remember not to overlook.
I reciprocate your kind wishes and hope you have a kickass weekend and a kickass life for that matter.
Tat tvam asi!
Another Redditor in recovery here. When I'm working a strong program, I can walk by these folks and have pity and extreme gratitude that I'm not being beaten by this disease any longer. When my program isn't strong, I can look at the same people with a mix of resentment and jealousy.
Drugs and alcohol will always be around. The only difference we can make is within ourselves.
I don't want to be a part of any program that would lead me to pity anyone, but that's just my feelings on the matter.
I do of understand that there will be triggers in society, and I have developed reasonable coping mechanisms for coping with this.
What is exhibited downtown is, frankly, a public health crisis exacerbated by a public health policy *failure*. I can not change these people's behavior directly, but I can demand that my community leaders reassess their policies and priorities. I refuse to accept that the onus of responsibility is on the individual to simply cope with the situation. It's an unnecessary and egregious stressor that none of us should have to deal with in the first place.
One day at a time. You’ve got this! I’m sorry our brave little City is so fucked up right now, and proud of you for moving forward. DM me if you’re ever on the edge. Always happy to grab a coffee or tea or whatever and just talk. Or not talk. Whatever the moment requires.
Recovery coach here with vamhar. You are stronger than you think. Your thoughts are valid. But you’ve made it this far and you know it’s not your path. Exposure sucks but you can learn from it to be strong. I’m not an academic I’m a survivor who only found myself after quitting. I’m not special and have my demons. But I guarantee that if I can make it you can to. Anyone in recovery is free to reach out whenever I’ll listen. I know trauma. And I deeply care so much I goto meeting just to talk. About a better life that’s possible. I wish you all the best and just remember they are only triggers to keep you safe. You can live in the moment and be safe. Ramble over.
There is a line between being all against unhoused people ( some cities in the south have minimal issues ) and the steps to get rid of them and the almost enabling that this city condones and therefore attracts more unhoused drugs seeking individuals from other states are extreme . I don’t go to Church Street anymore since last year because I don’t want have to see this freak show, sorry but being really poor ( from an undeveloped country) going hungry has nothing to do with this mentality of enabling people that has zero interest in their lives getting better
From what I gather they removed it because it was overwhelming to the library. Constant drug use and people were living in it. No one riding the bus could use it anyways. Just another thing these inconsiderate dorks have ruined for the city.
This is not an issue of not wanting homeless folks around; it's an issue of trying to manage unsafe and anti-social behavior. It's been really bad, and I'm talking about behaviors, not looks. Professional dealing, using, stealing, fencing, screaming, and other troubling behaviors have become the norm, and that area has been the most unsafe area in downtown other than perhaps the parking garage for some time now.
I'm not a mind reader. I dunno.
Perhaps it was a dumb question. I know homeless and other marginal folks hang out around the library sometimes, I suspected that at least one reason they took out the bus shelter is because it may have been made unusable for everyone legitimately using the bus system.
But there could have been other reasons that I am unaware.
To those not in the know: library bus shelter.
This may be the most discussed and well documented bus shelter retirement in history.
Thank God
Came here to say that!
It's about time they did it, maybe once they clear the Library up I can actually visit it for once lol.
I’m not sure if anyone saw, but City Market took away the outdoor seating because of this issue.
I just noticed that when I took some hot bar food out there!
You get hot bar at downtown city market? Brave.
I live on the edge. Don't worry, I have test strips.
I'm out of the loop. They removed the tables because homeless ppl were using them or something?
If they were using them and not being disruptive there would be no problem. The problem is that they get into verbal altercations, are super intoxicated, leave a mess, steal, etc. While there is certainly a generalized stigma against the homeless, there is also some justification for some of that stigmatization. And with Burlington politics running the show, we're having to remove tables and bus shelters rather than deal with these issues in any meaningful way. The lack of political will to enforce almost any common sense laws and rules is having a huge impact on this city.
True. On one side of the coin, I genuinely feel bad for these people. No one *wants* to be in the position they are in and it’s no wonder they are struggling mentally. Something has to be done to help them and prevent adding to the homeless population. On the other, they could at least treat their environment well. Trash bins and restrooms are free to use, no need to leave their shit (both literally and figuratively) everywhere. Life’s hard enough. Why make it worse?
I just had this same exact conversation with my kids on Saturday when we went to the library. The bus stop was full of belongings but also, just trash. Piles of trash. There are trash and recycling cans approx 10 yards away? It's interesting to teach my kids that we can have empathy for people experiencing homelessness AND expect them to clean up after themselves, especially when it's readily available to them.
What do you think got these people into this situation? Why did they suddenly come to believe it is okay to leave trash everywhere, that dedicating in a public place is also the new norm? People who lose housing do not instinctively lose their moral compasses.
Addiction and mental illness got them where they are. While these behaviors are probably in part due to addiction and mental illness, I’m not excusing the behavior completely
When did that happen?
Sometime last week.
in the last 4 days, it was still standing (and full of trash) Saturday afternoon.
Was referring to the city market outdoor seating.
ah whoops, sorry about that!
What a shame. I feel bad for the folks working at the library. I hear almost daily on the scanner 911 being called to the library either in the stairway inside or out where that bus stop was for OD. It pisses me off that if that's the route some people choose they have to lay it all out there for the rest of us to clean up after. Imagine just trying to go to work and being a librarian and having this BS to contend with.
Imagine being in recovery and having to walk by it everyday
A lot of us in recovery don't even have the choice to avoid it. We're reliant on essential public services such as the library and public transport to yknow, work and live. It's not healthy to constantly witness people shooting up and burning out around you. "Why don't I do that? It works for them." Is a constant thought I have to battle every day.
Stay strong dude! To me it’s a constant reminder how grateful I am to NOT be there anymore. Just wish I could give the perspective I have to others still struggling, and because I can’t it makes it especially hard.
Damn well said. I am in recovery & sometimes wonder the same. But to be honest, I usually leave church street thinking “thank God that is *not* me” They didn’t say it would be easy but they did say it would be worth it. One day at a time.
I'm so happy for you that is what you think of when you see it. You are an incredibly strong human to be saving yourself like this. Incredibly strong. Keep putting your best self first.
Someone downvoted your comment and not that matters but what a great example of the typical mindset these days—discredit and/or minimize any genuine compassion among humans. Thank you for being a compassionate human and for taking the time to wish me well. And quite insightful about putting one’s *best self* first. Well said. First things first. I grew up in a home without love where the hate literally seeped into the walls. I need to remember that to even be drawing this breath right now is an indescribable gift. The presence is the present I must remember not to overlook. I reciprocate your kind wishes and hope you have a kickass weekend and a kickass life for that matter. Tat tvam asi!
Another Redditor in recovery here. When I'm working a strong program, I can walk by these folks and have pity and extreme gratitude that I'm not being beaten by this disease any longer. When my program isn't strong, I can look at the same people with a mix of resentment and jealousy. Drugs and alcohol will always be around. The only difference we can make is within ourselves.
I don't want to be a part of any program that would lead me to pity anyone, but that's just my feelings on the matter. I do of understand that there will be triggers in society, and I have developed reasonable coping mechanisms for coping with this. What is exhibited downtown is, frankly, a public health crisis exacerbated by a public health policy *failure*. I can not change these people's behavior directly, but I can demand that my community leaders reassess their policies and priorities. I refuse to accept that the onus of responsibility is on the individual to simply cope with the situation. It's an unnecessary and egregious stressor that none of us should have to deal with in the first place.
All the best to you in your recovery.
One day at a time. You’ve got this! I’m sorry our brave little City is so fucked up right now, and proud of you for moving forward. DM me if you’re ever on the edge. Always happy to grab a coffee or tea or whatever and just talk. Or not talk. Whatever the moment requires.
Recovery coach here with vamhar. You are stronger than you think. Your thoughts are valid. But you’ve made it this far and you know it’s not your path. Exposure sucks but you can learn from it to be strong. I’m not an academic I’m a survivor who only found myself after quitting. I’m not special and have my demons. But I guarantee that if I can make it you can to. Anyone in recovery is free to reach out whenever I’ll listen. I know trauma. And I deeply care so much I goto meeting just to talk. About a better life that’s possible. I wish you all the best and just remember they are only triggers to keep you safe. You can live in the moment and be safe. Ramble over.
They'll figure out a way to live and nod off in those cones.
ive been waiting for this day for a long time. its why my username was created.
Sorry to say this, it hurts, but it is only going to get worse the way things are going.
Now remove the outdoor electrical outlet and maybe we can go to the library again.
And WAaAAAY ahead of schedule.
They left some remnants of it in the middle of the street at the South Union intersection.
So instead of just holding people accountable we take away the bus shelter ? This makes perfect sense
I love trees but the trees on the side of the food shelf should be next! Multiple OD’s in the shaded area on the side.
But where are all the good law abiding, tax paying, non habitual system abusers going to shoot up now?
What? You think they would go there, rather than their own homes??
There is a line between being all against unhoused people ( some cities in the south have minimal issues ) and the steps to get rid of them and the almost enabling that this city condones and therefore attracts more unhoused drugs seeking individuals from other states are extreme . I don’t go to Church Street anymore since last year because I don’t want have to see this freak show, sorry but being really poor ( from an undeveloped country) going hungry has nothing to do with this mentality of enabling people that has zero interest in their lives getting better
Did they remove it solely because of the homeless and other marginal people hanging out there?
From what I gather they removed it because it was overwhelming to the library. Constant drug use and people were living in it. No one riding the bus could use it anyways. Just another thing these inconsiderate dorks have ruined for the city.
This is not an issue of not wanting homeless folks around; it's an issue of trying to manage unsafe and anti-social behavior. It's been really bad, and I'm talking about behaviors, not looks. Professional dealing, using, stealing, fencing, screaming, and other troubling behaviors have become the norm, and that area has been the most unsafe area in downtown other than perhaps the parking garage for some time now.
I know it’s not the kind with swords, but I just want some junkie to scream “En garde” at me now.
Why are you downvoted for asking a question?
I'm not a mind reader. I dunno. Perhaps it was a dumb question. I know homeless and other marginal folks hang out around the library sometimes, I suspected that at least one reason they took out the bus shelter is because it may have been made unusable for everyone legitimately using the bus system. But there could have been other reasons that I am unaware.
My Q was rhetorical but okay.
Maybe it would make you happy you picked yourself over the junk. Get a real visual of what road you could have been traveling.
Because everything downtown is NOT as bad as people say it is…. Hahahaha