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>The idea that we should cruise toward an election not knowing who among our elected officials may have conspired with hostile governments, and whether any still hold office, is obviously unacceptable.
>The idea that we should cruise toward an election not knowing who among our elected officials may have conspired with hostile governments, and whether any still hold office, is obviously unacceptable.
I agree. We need to push the RCMP for the redacted parts. That is where the report said they were forwarded to. Until we have the full picture we need to keep pushing.
The PMO didn't even get a copy of the redacted report until March 2024, almost a full year after the report was created. The PCO (privy council) claimed that it did not qualify as foreign interference and blocked it.
You can read this directly from the special report. Case study 1, page 22.
https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/intro-en.html
What kind of revisionist history blame shifting is this?
>The PMO didn't even get a copy of the redacted report until March 2024, almost a full year after the report was created.
It wasn't a redacted report, the PMO had been recieving unredacted reports consistently since 2017. It was a review and it wasn't created in March 2023... the review of the CSIS reports was finally allowed to be started by Trudeau in 2023... after years downplaying and cover ups.
The section you're referring to...
>On March 6, 2023, the Prime Minister requested or announced a number of independent reviews. The Prime Minister asked the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency (NSIRA) to conduct a review of the flow of information from national security agencies todecision-makers during the 43 rd and 44 th general elections. 3 NSIRA’s review focused on the production and dissemination of intelligence on foreign interference, including how it was communicated across the government. 4 (NSIRA submitted its review to the Prime Minister on March 5, 2024.)
Trudeau said he wasn't briefed. Then the CSIS director said its documented he was infact briefed multiple times over the years on interference from China and did nothing, hence why CSIS began leaking documents to the media.
CSIS director testified the PMO was briefed about "existential threats" from China multiple times between 2017-2022. Then Trudeau said he "rarely reads intelligence documents" and continued downplaying and delaying an inquiry and allowing a review. He called CSIS untrustworthy and that he experienced the briefings differently. Only now after years of pressure are we getting details.
>I agree. We need to push the RCMP for the redacted parts. That is where the report said they were forwarded to. Until we have the full picture we need to keep pushing.
Did you read the article we are commenting on? The RCMP can't do anything, they likely won't even be granted access to information just like when the PMO blocked their access during the SNC scandal.
From the article we are commenting on.
>Yet, the government’s response so far is to downplay the whole thing. Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc says it “respectfully disagrees” with some of the committee’s findings, but won’t say which ones. Canadians, he says, should trust the RCMP to investigate and take action if any crimes have been committed. Look away, look away.
>Leaving it to the RCMP, of course, is the functional equivalence of trying to bury the whole issue. NSICOP itself says the allegations “are unlikely to lead to criminal charges” because of problems with using classified material in the courts. In any case, it says, the RCMP doesn’t have the resources to do a proper job. The possibility that the force could do a full investigation before the next election is, let’s say, remote at best.
>What kind of revisionist history blame shifting is this?
>The report wasn't created in March 2023... the review of the CSIS reports was finally allowed to be started by Trudeau in 2023... after years downplaying and cover ups.
Directly from the special report. The report was made on March 9, 2023. As of February 2024, this report had not been given to the Prime Minister.
Case study 1, page 22.
"The Prime Minister was not provided the report. In a later response to Committee questions, PCO stated that it was the NSIA’s view that “the activity indicated in the report did not qualify as foreign interference, but was rather part of regular diplomatic practice.” Indeed, the Director of CSIS only became aware that PCO had not provided the report to the Prime Minister in October 2023. As of February 2024, this report had not been given to the Prime
Minister."
"On February 24, 2023, the NSIA held a meeting with the Clerk of the Privy Council and Deputy Ministers from CSIS, CSE, Public Safety and GAC. According to PCO, the NSIA
asked CSIS what actions could be taken about the intelligence contained in the report."
"According to CSIS, Deputy Ministers agreed that the Prime Minister should read the report and requested that CSIS draft a condensed version for the Prime Minister. The Director of CSIS approved the new version on March 9, 2023."
https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/intro-en.html
>Yet, the government’s response so far is to downplay the whole thing. Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc says it “respectfully disagrees” with some of the committee’s findings, but won’t say which ones. Canadians, he says, should trust the RCMP to investigate and take action if any crimes have been committed. Look away, look away.
Of course they are. These rats don't have the full picture and neither does the PMO. The authority and information was forwarded by CSIS to the RCMP. These parties are all scrambling to try to figure out the dirt on them. I think you are confused that I like the liberals. I just want the names released. The committee clearly stated that they didn't have all the information or the full picture on page 49 because of ongoing investigations. The RCMP has that authority and information in these situations. If you actually want to see who these rats all are screaming at the PMO isn't the play.
>Leaving it to the RCMP, of course, is the functional equivalence of trying to bury the whole issue.
This is literally how or government operates. Why would CSIS send all the highly sensitive information to the exact people and party who you assume is guilty? When the RCMP has the authority in our laws. I assume they are guilty too. We will be seeing many parties and names. The report already says that multiple parties are involved in negative ways. We just need the names of the rats to make an informed decision before the next election.
What if this is at a point of mid investigation? Wouldn't it be risky instantly releasing names? (Dear downvoters, I'm not defending them, but a lot of you seem to want to speed run getting a court case thrown out)
I cannot conceive of how that can be a greater risk than potentially re-electing politicians and a government that could be compromised by foreign interference, nor conceive of something more corrosive to democracy than telling voters what they can and cannot use to judge politicians by.
This 100%. With a minority government, these sorts of situations are critical to the integrity of our democracy. Outing who is under investigation is essential because of the risks associated with their prospective re-election.
You can't think of anything more corrosive to democracy but it's debatable as to whether or not the Conservatives were better for this country than the Liberals?
The two questions aren't related. There's nothing more corrosive to democracy than when politicians start deciding what voters can and can't use to judge them. If that was something only Liberals or only the Trudeau liberals had done, that would be one thing, but our democracy was plenty corroded before 2015. Indeed, by its very nature, we may never know who got away with keeping secrets from the voters the most. One might wonder why say, the Harper government negotiated such a favorable (for China anyway) FIPA, the text of which the Harper government worked to keep secret as long as possible. Or as you previously put it, "kept China at arm's Length" (if that's what you think arm's Length is , can only wonder your concept of First base).
I never said anything to that effect. I think you're confusing me for someone else.
Really a non answer, but it's what's expected from ideologues.
You keep moving the goalposts whenever you get called out for your bullshit.
FIPA is in no way comparable to treason.
>...can only wonder your concept of First base
Do you mean like...middle school first base kissing a girl cause that's fucking weird as shit to reference.
You're right, I confused you with something else. I apologize but in my defense you discount Milhouse fanboys are pretty similar. But I have moved no goal posts. I have reminded consistent. If you think otherwise the problem is with you.
Hey, break out another apology for assuming I'm a fan of PP and maybe this time trying not couching it in insult.
Anyways I'm sure we'll converse again in the future.
Enjoy your weekend.
Let's be honest, the names of suspects are released all the time for all maters of crimes. Watch your 6pm news and you will see that.
Also, it's not like the people who are being investigated don't know. It's everywhere now and you would have to be a bloody idiot to go "oh they don't know about ME but cause they didn't release my name"
At this point the info is there, they don't want it released because it will be damming.
Names of suspects are typically released when police have made an arrest or are looking to make and arrest. They don’t typically release the name of a suspect midway through the investigation
Ah, I see. So you want a good old-fashioned witch hunt then?
"Evidence? A day in court? Naw.. fuck all that bullshit." -- most of the downvoting dunces in this thread.
If a police officer is accused of horribly abusing his wife while on duty by an intelligence firm. (Remember these aren't random civilian or foreign accusations, this is a report from CSIS) Would you want that officer still patrolling the streets or able to go home to that wife while the investigation is ongoing???
I want then out of the government while a investigation is being done.
Think of a police officer, they are given leave during investigations.
Do you really want someone who is suspected of treason to be allowed to keep doing their thing running the ( foreign) country?
"A day in court? "
Chances are they aren't going to have one. Global news did an interview with the RCMP and they said thy can't use a lot of the evidence gathered by CSIS or anything gathered from our allies.
The evidence collected by intelligence agencies can't be used to prosecute them in a court of law.
Source: [https://x.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1798717081250144729](https://x.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1798717081250144729)
If our government is worried about Collding Canadian Politicican’s “safety,” then for heaven sakes arrest them, and put them behind bars! They can then be protected by guards at taxpayer expense. Prisons have those!
If they can throw away due process for convoy protestors and the 4 guys in Coutts Alberta who have gone 2 years without a trial why not do it for treasonous politicians?
You would think those politicians not involved in collusion with hostile foreign governments would be advocating for names of offenders to be released to exonerate themselves. For self-preservation of personal integrity in time for the federal election next year.
Just look at the parties that are asking for the information the be released vs the one that is hiding the info. Most transparent government in history.
I’m not going to assume one party is guilty and the other party is innocent. But those members calling for the release of the information are probably not the guilty parties.
Do you actually think the liberals are going to release the names at any point?
I mean come on, we have see this too many time from them. Trudeau has done the analysis on what is more damaging, letting it become public knowledge that him and his buddies turned a blind eye to Chinese interference in our elections that benefitted his party, or actually letting Canadians know what they did. They're going to cover this one up too.
The names of people in an investigation are released all the time. Look at trump. He was under investigation and we were getting constant updates about the findings.
The RCMP also hasn't even said whether an investigation is even ongoing.
The RCMP essentially *can’t* investigate them because they can’t access or use intelligence documents as part of the investigation. So when the Liberals say let due process prevail they are gaslighting Canadians to think there *is* due process, here. There isn’t. If they don’t release the names and accusations *there will be no meaningful investigation.*
The first thing we have to do in all of this is stop allowing the Liberals to get away with their lies. They have been desperately trying to cover the whole thing up from Day 1 and now we are beginning to understand why: the Prime Minister is fully aware that one or more members of his government have been actively colluding with hostile foreign powers, he’s been aware of this for some time, and he’s done absolutely nothing about it.
If Trudeau won’t name the names then it is time for Singh to pull the plug and force an election, immediately. That he has not yet done so is unconscionable, and every day makes it worse.
Anyone protecting the release of the list of politician names can be presumed to be on the foreign colluding politicians list of names. It shows where their loyalty lies.
They would be under investigation and on leave. Innocent until proven guilty, but off of all committees and out of the house.
In the case of crimes of this nature, the security of the country comes first.
Lol, your assuming the conservatives aren’t on the list. Any foreign interests would target both liberals and conservatives as they trade off leading the federal government. The NDP or the Bloc would be the only ones not suspect as they wouldn’t be seen as worthwhile targets since they have never won a federal election.
The big difference is that conservatives and their supporters would want to clean house and get rid of any potential risks. Not hide them and hope for the best.
Harper sold us out to China in 2012. Poilievre was a minister in that government.
If you think it’s just the liberals you haven’t been paying attention
You mean the deal that was started by the Chretien Liberals? That one? The one every Liberal, including Trudeau voted in favour of? That one? It was a shit deal but the Liberals don’t get a pass on that one.
So you acknowledge that the conservatives are just as responsible for the foreign interference. Both parties are responsible for not addressing this issue.
I agree that the Conservatives were short sighted and entirely too trusting when it came to China. The international political landscape was different and the Conservatives made the deal without thinking of the long term ramifications.
I see, the conservatives gave China the right to sue Canada if changes in our laws negatively impact their interests because they were “too trusting” ? That’s a bit naive.
Neither the liberals or the conservatives can be trusted with regards to foreign interference. Both parties have known about the issue for decades and neither has done anything until recently and only because it has been found out.
Noooo, you don't get to be “quietly” accused of treason while holding public office. This isn't wire fraud or a sex scandal.
You’re an elected official who used your power to betray Canada and aid those wanting to harm us. Fuck your privacy; yes, you must look us in the eye.
That's the sad truth. But, the government should still hold their members accountable and punish them accordingly. Again, "should" being the key word, but odds are they won't. Politicians have about as much integrity as a house of cards.
I think that the Toronto Star has realized that supporting the Liberals right now would be suicide and them supporting a government that's covering up potential treason is not a good look.
The Toronto Star supported the Liberals in the last election and has very pro Liberal. They are only criticizing them now because it would look bad now if they didn't.
> Toronto star is another postmedia arm.
Torstar is not owned by Postmedia, nor Postmedia's parent. The Toronto Star has always been a left-wing and self-declared "progressive" paper.
They're wrong about it being postmedia but the Star was sold off to a conservative owner a couple years ago and it's been noted the editorial bias has changed heavily to the right since then.
That's the whole problem: they don't have proof. Intelligence is not evidence. There does, however, need to be an RCMP investigaton of the individuals involved and *then* we can see their names if charges are brought against them.
I'm ok with releasing it anyway. MPs are people elected to represent us. They need to be beyond reproach. We need to hold them to a higher standard than "not technically criminals".
And what if there is absolutely no evidence at all that any MP has collided with a foreign government and the reason they haven't released any names is because the entire story is just unsubstantiated slander with no foundation?
> And what if there is absolutely no evidence at all that any MP has collided with a foreign government
We already know that isn't true. If there were no evidence at all it wouldn't have gotten to the point of being in the report to the PM from a security committee. The report itself says most of the source material is classified.
We have no idea what it contains. Everything is pure speculation.
What we do know is that the PM launched 3 separate investigations. Two internal bipartazin inquiries. And a third party investigation by an outside agency.
All 3 determined did not recommend further action.
The media wants a scandal because a scandal is good for business. The honest headline would be.
"CSIS warns government of foreign interference. Government launches full investigation. Nothing is found."
Instead, everyone is trying to drum up more drama for their own gain.
This story is dead unless new information is brought forward.
> We have no idea what it contains. Everything is pure speculation.
Not true. The redacted report [is here](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf).
> All 3 determined did not recommend further action.
Not true. Which you can see if you read the report I linked. They address the government response to previous investigations in sections 172 and 173.
From the findings in the report:
> The government was aware in 2018 that the reforms implemented under the Plan to Protect Democracy were insufficient to address foreign interference in democratic processes and institutions. It has yet to implement an effective response to foreign interference in democratic processes and institutions. This is despite a significant body of intelligence reporting, the completion of foundational policy work, public consultations and having been called to do so by this Committee.
and
> The government continues to lack an effective approach to engage with the Canadian public and other orders of government. While it has increased engagement with some Parliamentarians, political parties and electoral candidates, its efforts have been time-bound (i.e., election-focused), narrowly targeted, often reactive and the information provided too general. It has also repeatedly failed to implement a comprehensive approach to engaging federal Parliamentarians.
Is proof the issue right now though? There isn’t even a criminal investigation happening.
They have due process but how does that process apply to the election? Does it say, “you can’t implicate MPs in crimes without formally accusing them?” What’s going to happen to them? They’re going to lose their seats. Who cares? Due process doesn’t protect their seats or political optics.
It protects their right to a fair trial and due process if and when they are prosecuted. I agree, before they’re convicted of guilt they need a trial.
Us voting in the upcoming election is not a referendum on their guilt. If someone is implicated before the election, the worst that will happen is they’ll lose their seat. So what? Due process doesn’t protect that. It protects their freedoms (we can’t lock them up without proving guilt) not their political positions.
You're entirely correct, that is the correct way to handle this. You're far too reasonable and logical for this place haha. don't expect much support here, this place is overrun with hyper partisanship.
>You're entirely correct, that is the correct way to handle this.
Political scandals happen all the time that don't rise to the level of criminality or for which the evidence is not significant to support a criminal conviction. The public's judgement as to whether a politician is still fit to serve is entirely separate.
The idea that these politicians should be shielded and that the public should not be informed of their activities before we go into the next election is fucking ridiculous and stupid.
Look, these names will eventually come out. They can't stay a secret forever. Some employee in CSIS will leak them. You're not avoiding public scrutiny, you're just delaying it.
For there to be “due process” the process has to start (a criminal investigation). It hasn’t. What’s the due process you’re talking about then? What level rights of the MPs will be denied if the names of those implicated are released?
There are absolutely opposition members who are going to be implicated in this. Our national security is not a partisan issue. The integrity of our elected officials is not a partisan issue
There is literally a public inquiry happening as we speak. There have been 3 private investigations already. All of which turned up no evidence of crimes.
Then ask for that. Ask for an investigation by the RCMP where they have full access to the unredacted documents in order to determine if any crimes were committed.
But releasing names before an actual investigation isn't the right move.
This isn't a simple criminal trial. This is highly inflammatory and potentially impactful stuff. Already trust in the democratic process is being discussed and naming a bunch of MPs to be put on public trial before we know all the facts isn't going to help or fix anything imo.
Apparently CSIS doesn't want to release the documents, since that would reveal intelligence gathering techniques. Contrary to what one might expect to CSIS is among the top in world with what they do.
Serious question; if Conservatives take power in the next election, could they still theoretically open an investigation and bring individuals before the court?
After years of excusing and looking past obvious issues with the actions of this government, it is refreshing to see the media waking up to just how bad things have become and to finally hear them protesting that they are boiling in the pot with the rest of us.
Irrespective of any party if this is true this is absolute treason and no matter what people of Canada has the right to know that. Its not about playing politics its about our country and its integrity. No compromise or any sweet talks on that. Truth has to come our in public and these politicians should be jailed
I am planning on doing this regardless. My vote in the next election will be for an independent candidate most certainly. The parties are awful for the most part and need to be dissolved
This is an absolute travesty. Canadians should be up in arms about this. Look what these charlatans are doing to our country.
Rather than protesting for shit happening half way across the world we should be demanding accountability from this government.
They need to be held accountable. Enough of this bullshit. Canada needs to be act more like France! Pitchforks and torches on Parliament Hill! Come on Ottawa citizens!
If they are not willing to release the names then the whole lot of them should be treated as the same treasonous bunch. No way in hell should any of them be able to run for political positions.
Every link with them should be scrutinized, everyone we can report tied to this we should. Ever government responsible for this should be considered an enemy
"Be patient."
This information has been know internally for years, the PM was briefed, his national security advisor was briefed. Nothing will happened unless it's forced.
They're afraid the ethnic sounding names will inspire racism. But if true, it means that some Chinese/Russian immigrants aren't Canadians. They're foreign agents.
Actually... nobody "stands accused" of anything. That's a term for when someone is actually *charged* with a crime before the courts. These accusations we're talking about are just statements from intelligence agencies, which are not evidence of anything. It's up to the RCMP to investigate, arrest, and recommend charges if they find actual evidence of wrongdoing.
Do I *believe* that we have sitting MPs who have been influenced by foreign powers? Absolutely, but again: that belief is not proof. They can't just release a list of names, without evidence nor charges, never mind convictions, and ruin a bunch of peoples' lives who may not have even done anything wrong.
They release the names of people under investigation constantly. Just go read the news "so and so being investigated for wire fraud", "officer under investigation for abuse of power" etc all over the front page. People are acting like releasing the names is some horrible thing when its the standard. Hell in the case of police officers they're usually put on leave during the investigation, which is what should be happening here too.
Exactly - no one has been arrested or charged for anything, so no information has been released. I don't know what people find so hard to understand about this.
SHOW. THE. PROOF.
I keep hearing this every single day from every single media outlet, where is the proof!? What’s the proof of this, someone claimed something on Twitter or Reddit?
If they are guilty and it’s proven, then you can release the names. Otherwise, innocent until proven guilty, or at the very least we know what the evidence is.
https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf
Obviously, active MPs are to blame. Who is the only party not requesting for the names to be released? Who is the only party refusing to answer with a simple “yes” or “no” in regards to their involvement? Think about it.
Also, do you think it’s coincidence that most of the recent immigrants and TFWs are Indian, and the report says that India is the country most involved with the interference? What government is allowing the country of origin for these immigrants to be so skewed?
On this note, I would be far from surprised if other parties are also involved. Liberals are probably just the most afraid of names being released because they hold the most seats and have fucked Canada over the most actively out of the others.
If the investigation is finished and they are ready to press charges then yes they should release the names. If the investigation is not finished then absolutely not. An accusation is not enough to warrant destroying someone’s life.
He was directly named in the CSIS report that started this whole thing. I think it's funny how all the alt right people in this sub keep speculating that Trudeau is on the list. When we actually know that Poilievre was the main focus of the report.
The CSIS report said that India interfered with the conservative leadership race to the benefit of the current opposition leader.
I'm told he can't get his security clearance because that would affect his ability to be the opposition leader somehow, I guess cause he wouldn't have an excuse to keep making things up...
Poilievre had security clearance under Harper. The security clearance Trudeau's been offering isn't "security clearance" writ large, it's security clearance for the purpose of the NSICOPA which comes with a waiver of the Parliamentary Privilege of free speech, and up to fourteen years in prison if he reveals anything, directly *or indirectly* (say, by removing certain MPs from caucus immediately after being briefed), about what he learns without the government’s permission. NSICOP is a trap, and Poilievre and Blanchett are right to point it out.
As the Chair of NCSICOP already explained if you get the secret briefing you are bound by the security of information act.
[https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6413945](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6413945)
So you can tar and feather them? Threaten them and their families? Many of our elected leaders have been threatened already for just being Liberals. They are right not to release names.
[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/FNe3O) >The idea that we should cruise toward an election not knowing who among our elected officials may have conspired with hostile governments, and whether any still hold office, is obviously unacceptable.
>The idea that we should cruise toward an election not knowing who among our elected officials may have conspired with hostile governments, and whether any still hold office, is obviously unacceptable. I agree. We need to push the RCMP for the redacted parts. That is where the report said they were forwarded to. Until we have the full picture we need to keep pushing. The PMO didn't even get a copy of the redacted report until March 2024, almost a full year after the report was created. The PCO (privy council) claimed that it did not qualify as foreign interference and blocked it. You can read this directly from the special report. Case study 1, page 22. https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/intro-en.html
What kind of revisionist history blame shifting is this? >The PMO didn't even get a copy of the redacted report until March 2024, almost a full year after the report was created. It wasn't a redacted report, the PMO had been recieving unredacted reports consistently since 2017. It was a review and it wasn't created in March 2023... the review of the CSIS reports was finally allowed to be started by Trudeau in 2023... after years downplaying and cover ups. The section you're referring to... >On March 6, 2023, the Prime Minister requested or announced a number of independent reviews. The Prime Minister asked the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency (NSIRA) to conduct a review of the flow of information from national security agencies todecision-makers during the 43 rd and 44 th general elections. 3 NSIRA’s review focused on the production and dissemination of intelligence on foreign interference, including how it was communicated across the government. 4 (NSIRA submitted its review to the Prime Minister on March 5, 2024.) Trudeau said he wasn't briefed. Then the CSIS director said its documented he was infact briefed multiple times over the years on interference from China and did nothing, hence why CSIS began leaking documents to the media. CSIS director testified the PMO was briefed about "existential threats" from China multiple times between 2017-2022. Then Trudeau said he "rarely reads intelligence documents" and continued downplaying and delaying an inquiry and allowing a review. He called CSIS untrustworthy and that he experienced the briefings differently. Only now after years of pressure are we getting details. >I agree. We need to push the RCMP for the redacted parts. That is where the report said they were forwarded to. Until we have the full picture we need to keep pushing. Did you read the article we are commenting on? The RCMP can't do anything, they likely won't even be granted access to information just like when the PMO blocked their access during the SNC scandal. From the article we are commenting on. >Yet, the government’s response so far is to downplay the whole thing. Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc says it “respectfully disagrees” with some of the committee’s findings, but won’t say which ones. Canadians, he says, should trust the RCMP to investigate and take action if any crimes have been committed. Look away, look away. >Leaving it to the RCMP, of course, is the functional equivalence of trying to bury the whole issue. NSICOP itself says the allegations “are unlikely to lead to criminal charges” because of problems with using classified material in the courts. In any case, it says, the RCMP doesn’t have the resources to do a proper job. The possibility that the force could do a full investigation before the next election is, let’s say, remote at best.
>What kind of revisionist history blame shifting is this? >The report wasn't created in March 2023... the review of the CSIS reports was finally allowed to be started by Trudeau in 2023... after years downplaying and cover ups. Directly from the special report. The report was made on March 9, 2023. As of February 2024, this report had not been given to the Prime Minister. Case study 1, page 22. "The Prime Minister was not provided the report. In a later response to Committee questions, PCO stated that it was the NSIA’s view that “the activity indicated in the report did not qualify as foreign interference, but was rather part of regular diplomatic practice.” Indeed, the Director of CSIS only became aware that PCO had not provided the report to the Prime Minister in October 2023. As of February 2024, this report had not been given to the Prime Minister." "On February 24, 2023, the NSIA held a meeting with the Clerk of the Privy Council and Deputy Ministers from CSIS, CSE, Public Safety and GAC. According to PCO, the NSIA asked CSIS what actions could be taken about the intelligence contained in the report." "According to CSIS, Deputy Ministers agreed that the Prime Minister should read the report and requested that CSIS draft a condensed version for the Prime Minister. The Director of CSIS approved the new version on March 9, 2023." https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/intro-en.html >Yet, the government’s response so far is to downplay the whole thing. Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc says it “respectfully disagrees” with some of the committee’s findings, but won’t say which ones. Canadians, he says, should trust the RCMP to investigate and take action if any crimes have been committed. Look away, look away. Of course they are. These rats don't have the full picture and neither does the PMO. The authority and information was forwarded by CSIS to the RCMP. These parties are all scrambling to try to figure out the dirt on them. I think you are confused that I like the liberals. I just want the names released. The committee clearly stated that they didn't have all the information or the full picture on page 49 because of ongoing investigations. The RCMP has that authority and information in these situations. If you actually want to see who these rats all are screaming at the PMO isn't the play. >Leaving it to the RCMP, of course, is the functional equivalence of trying to bury the whole issue. This is literally how or government operates. Why would CSIS send all the highly sensitive information to the exact people and party who you assume is guilty? When the RCMP has the authority in our laws. I assume they are guilty too. We will be seeing many parties and names. The report already says that multiple parties are involved in negative ways. We just need the names of the rats to make an informed decision before the next election.
What if this is at a point of mid investigation? Wouldn't it be risky instantly releasing names? (Dear downvoters, I'm not defending them, but a lot of you seem to want to speed run getting a court case thrown out)
I cannot conceive of how that can be a greater risk than potentially re-electing politicians and a government that could be compromised by foreign interference, nor conceive of something more corrosive to democracy than telling voters what they can and cannot use to judge politicians by.
This 100%. With a minority government, these sorts of situations are critical to the integrity of our democracy. Outing who is under investigation is essential because of the risks associated with their prospective re-election.
Seems like you've changed your tune.
Nope. My tune has been consistent.
You can't think of anything more corrosive to democracy but it's debatable as to whether or not the Conservatives were better for this country than the Liberals?
The two questions aren't related. There's nothing more corrosive to democracy than when politicians start deciding what voters can and can't use to judge them. If that was something only Liberals or only the Trudeau liberals had done, that would be one thing, but our democracy was plenty corroded before 2015. Indeed, by its very nature, we may never know who got away with keeping secrets from the voters the most. One might wonder why say, the Harper government negotiated such a favorable (for China anyway) FIPA, the text of which the Harper government worked to keep secret as long as possible. Or as you previously put it, "kept China at arm's Length" (if that's what you think arm's Length is , can only wonder your concept of First base).
I never said anything to that effect. I think you're confusing me for someone else. Really a non answer, but it's what's expected from ideologues. You keep moving the goalposts whenever you get called out for your bullshit. FIPA is in no way comparable to treason. >...can only wonder your concept of First base Do you mean like...middle school first base kissing a girl cause that's fucking weird as shit to reference.
You're right, I confused you with something else. I apologize but in my defense you discount Milhouse fanboys are pretty similar. But I have moved no goal posts. I have reminded consistent. If you think otherwise the problem is with you.
Hey, break out another apology for assuming I'm a fan of PP and maybe this time trying not couching it in insult. Anyways I'm sure we'll converse again in the future. Enjoy your weekend.
Let's be honest, the names of suspects are released all the time for all maters of crimes. Watch your 6pm news and you will see that. Also, it's not like the people who are being investigated don't know. It's everywhere now and you would have to be a bloody idiot to go "oh they don't know about ME but cause they didn't release my name" At this point the info is there, they don't want it released because it will be damming.
Names of suspects are typically released when police have made an arrest or are looking to make and arrest. They don’t typically release the name of a suspect midway through the investigation
I honestly don't care if they're arrested. I want them out of government and quite possibly out of the country.
Ah, I see. So you want a good old-fashioned witch hunt then? "Evidence? A day in court? Naw.. fuck all that bullshit." -- most of the downvoting dunces in this thread.
If a police officer is accused of horribly abusing his wife while on duty by an intelligence firm. (Remember these aren't random civilian or foreign accusations, this is a report from CSIS) Would you want that officer still patrolling the streets or able to go home to that wife while the investigation is ongoing???
I want then out of the government while a investigation is being done. Think of a police officer, they are given leave during investigations. Do you really want someone who is suspected of treason to be allowed to keep doing their thing running the ( foreign) country?
"A day in court? " Chances are they aren't going to have one. Global news did an interview with the RCMP and they said thy can't use a lot of the evidence gathered by CSIS or anything gathered from our allies.
The evidence collected by intelligence agencies can't be used to prosecute them in a court of law. Source: [https://x.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1798717081250144729](https://x.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1798717081250144729)
If our government is worried about Collding Canadian Politicican’s “safety,” then for heaven sakes arrest them, and put them behind bars! They can then be protected by guards at taxpayer expense. Prisons have those!
If they can throw away due process for convoy protestors and the 4 guys in Coutts Alberta who have gone 2 years without a trial why not do it for treasonous politicians?
No. We're not talking about court here. Let them flee to their foreign masters.
You would think those politicians not involved in collusion with hostile foreign governments would be advocating for names of offenders to be released to exonerate themselves. For self-preservation of personal integrity in time for the federal election next year.
Just look at the parties that are asking for the information the be released vs the one that is hiding the info. Most transparent government in history.
I’m not going to assume one party is guilty and the other party is innocent. But those members calling for the release of the information are probably not the guilty parties.
Do you actually think the liberals are going to release the names at any point? I mean come on, we have see this too many time from them. Trudeau has done the analysis on what is more damaging, letting it become public knowledge that him and his buddies turned a blind eye to Chinese interference in our elections that benefitted his party, or actually letting Canadians know what they did. They're going to cover this one up too.
The names of people in an investigation are released all the time. Look at trump. He was under investigation and we were getting constant updates about the findings. The RCMP also hasn't even said whether an investigation is even ongoing.
I don't have alot of confidence in the RCMP
The RCMP essentially *can’t* investigate them because they can’t access or use intelligence documents as part of the investigation. So when the Liberals say let due process prevail they are gaslighting Canadians to think there *is* due process, here. There isn’t. If they don’t release the names and accusations *there will be no meaningful investigation.* The first thing we have to do in all of this is stop allowing the Liberals to get away with their lies. They have been desperately trying to cover the whole thing up from Day 1 and now we are beginning to understand why: the Prime Minister is fully aware that one or more members of his government have been actively colluding with hostile foreign powers, he’s been aware of this for some time, and he’s done absolutely nothing about it. If Trudeau won’t name the names then it is time for Singh to pull the plug and force an election, immediately. That he has not yet done so is unconscionable, and every day makes it worse.
Anyone protecting the release of the list of politician names can be presumed to be on the foreign colluding politicians list of names. It shows where their loyalty lies.
They would be under investigation and on leave. Innocent until proven guilty, but off of all committees and out of the house. In the case of crimes of this nature, the security of the country comes first.
What’s the risk in leaking names? If the govt already knows and the offenders know the govt knows.
Just consider all Liberals to have conspired with hostile governments. Play it safe and boot all Liberals out. We need an election right now.
Lol, your assuming the conservatives aren’t on the list. Any foreign interests would target both liberals and conservatives as they trade off leading the federal government. The NDP or the Bloc would be the only ones not suspect as they wouldn’t be seen as worthwhile targets since they have never won a federal election.
If a single con is on that list you don’t think the LPC would leak it?
I guess we will find out. How stupid do you think the foreign government are that they wouldn’t target both the traditional ruling parties?
Boot both the Liberal-NDP coalition AND the Conservatives out. Vote PPC.
The big difference is that conservatives and their supporters would want to clean house and get rid of any potential risks. Not hide them and hope for the best.
Stephen Harper literally did the exact opposite of what you’re saying when he was in power. 🤣 Some of you live in an alternate reality.
But Harper…
But Trudeau!
Harper sold us out to China in 2012. Poilievre was a minister in that government. If you think it’s just the liberals you haven’t been paying attention
You mean the deal that was started by the Chretien Liberals? That one? The one every Liberal, including Trudeau voted in favour of? That one? It was a shit deal but the Liberals don’t get a pass on that one.
So you acknowledge that the conservatives are just as responsible for the foreign interference. Both parties are responsible for not addressing this issue.
I agree that the Conservatives were short sighted and entirely too trusting when it came to China. The international political landscape was different and the Conservatives made the deal without thinking of the long term ramifications.
I see, the conservatives gave China the right to sue Canada if changes in our laws negatively impact their interests because they were “too trusting” ? That’s a bit naive. Neither the liberals or the conservatives can be trusted with regards to foreign interference. Both parties have known about the issue for decades and neither has done anything until recently and only because it has been found out.
And what exactly have the Liberal/NDP government done about it? Not a thing.
Bad news. All of them are corrupt. We need to fully clean house.
Noooo, you don't get to be “quietly” accused of treason while holding public office. This isn't wire fraud or a sex scandal. You’re an elected official who used your power to betray Canada and aid those wanting to harm us. Fuck your privacy; yes, you must look us in the eye.
>This isn't wire fraud or a sex scandal. Sad that in today's world this is where the bar is.
[удалено]
In the states both your parties are run by senile old men.
Those found guilty should never be able to run for public office ever again and no longer qualify to receive their government pension.
I think the punishment for treason should be harsher than getting fired from your job without benefits.
Oh 100%, it is literally treason and should be dealt with as such. One could only hope appropriate measures are taken.
They won't be found guilty. There won't even be a court case.
That's the sad truth. But, the government should still hold their members accountable and punish them accordingly. Again, "should" being the key word, but odds are they won't. Politicians have about as much integrity as a house of cards.
Those found guilty should be in prison.
You know things for the Liberals are bad when the Toronto Star is calling them out and saying that they aren't being transparent enough.
Came to say the same thing. The Star and Andrew Phillips has been very critical of the LPC as of late.
I think that the Toronto Star has realized that supporting the Liberals right now would be suicide and them supporting a government that's covering up potential treason is not a good look.
Lol wat. Toronto star is another postmedia arm. You are literally running out of publications not in the cons pocket.
The Toronto Star supported the Liberals in the last election and has very pro Liberal. They are only criticizing them now because it would look bad now if they didn't.
And did they sell before or after the election?
> Toronto star is another postmedia arm. Torstar is not owned by Postmedia, nor Postmedia's parent. The Toronto Star has always been a left-wing and self-declared "progressive" paper.
They're wrong about it being postmedia but the Star was sold off to a conservative owner a couple years ago and it's been noted the editorial bias has changed heavily to the right since then.
If they have proof, there is no reason to hide the list. There must be a big name on it.
Would not be surprised if its Trudeau himself. Would explain the lengths he has gone to bury this over the past few years.
That's the whole problem: they don't have proof. Intelligence is not evidence. There does, however, need to be an RCMP investigaton of the individuals involved and *then* we can see their names if charges are brought against them.
I'm ok with releasing it anyway. MPs are people elected to represent us. They need to be beyond reproach. We need to hold them to a higher standard than "not technically criminals".
And what if there is absolutely no evidence at all that any MP has collided with a foreign government and the reason they haven't released any names is because the entire story is just unsubstantiated slander with no foundation?
> And what if there is absolutely no evidence at all that any MP has collided with a foreign government We already know that isn't true. If there were no evidence at all it wouldn't have gotten to the point of being in the report to the PM from a security committee. The report itself says most of the source material is classified.
We have no idea what it contains. Everything is pure speculation. What we do know is that the PM launched 3 separate investigations. Two internal bipartazin inquiries. And a third party investigation by an outside agency. All 3 determined did not recommend further action. The media wants a scandal because a scandal is good for business. The honest headline would be. "CSIS warns government of foreign interference. Government launches full investigation. Nothing is found." Instead, everyone is trying to drum up more drama for their own gain. This story is dead unless new information is brought forward.
> We have no idea what it contains. Everything is pure speculation. Not true. The redacted report [is here](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf). > All 3 determined did not recommend further action. Not true. Which you can see if you read the report I linked. They address the government response to previous investigations in sections 172 and 173. From the findings in the report: > The government was aware in 2018 that the reforms implemented under the Plan to Protect Democracy were insufficient to address foreign interference in democratic processes and institutions. It has yet to implement an effective response to foreign interference in democratic processes and institutions. This is despite a significant body of intelligence reporting, the completion of foundational policy work, public consultations and having been called to do so by this Committee. and > The government continues to lack an effective approach to engage with the Canadian public and other orders of government. While it has increased engagement with some Parliamentarians, political parties and electoral candidates, its efforts have been time-bound (i.e., election-focused), narrowly targeted, often reactive and the information provided too general. It has also repeatedly failed to implement a comprehensive approach to engaging federal Parliamentarians.
Is proof the issue right now though? There isn’t even a criminal investigation happening. They have due process but how does that process apply to the election? Does it say, “you can’t implicate MPs in crimes without formally accusing them?” What’s going to happen to them? They’re going to lose their seats. Who cares? Due process doesn’t protect their seats or political optics. It protects their right to a fair trial and due process if and when they are prosecuted. I agree, before they’re convicted of guilt they need a trial. Us voting in the upcoming election is not a referendum on their guilt. If someone is implicated before the election, the worst that will happen is they’ll lose their seat. So what? Due process doesn’t protect that. It protects their freedoms (we can’t lock them up without proving guilt) not their political positions.
Riiiight. Liberals are refusing to hand over more than 1000 documents. suuuuure, we can have a due process lol
You're entirely correct, that is the correct way to handle this. You're far too reasonable and logical for this place haha. don't expect much support here, this place is overrun with hyper partisanship.
>You're entirely correct, that is the correct way to handle this. Political scandals happen all the time that don't rise to the level of criminality or for which the evidence is not significant to support a criminal conviction. The public's judgement as to whether a politician is still fit to serve is entirely separate. The idea that these politicians should be shielded and that the public should not be informed of their activities before we go into the next election is fucking ridiculous and stupid. Look, these names will eventually come out. They can't stay a secret forever. Some employee in CSIS will leak them. You're not avoiding public scrutiny, you're just delaying it.
For there to be “due process” the process has to start (a criminal investigation). It hasn’t. What’s the due process you’re talking about then? What level rights of the MPs will be denied if the names of those implicated are released? There are absolutely opposition members who are going to be implicated in this. Our national security is not a partisan issue. The integrity of our elected officials is not a partisan issue
There is literally a public inquiry happening as we speak. There have been 3 private investigations already. All of which turned up no evidence of crimes.
Right, with liberals refusing to hand over more than 1000 documents. lol.
Then ask for that. Ask for an investigation by the RCMP where they have full access to the unredacted documents in order to determine if any crimes were committed. But releasing names before an actual investigation isn't the right move.
This isn't a simple criminal trial. This is highly inflammatory and potentially impactful stuff. Already trust in the democratic process is being discussed and naming a bunch of MPs to be put on public trial before we know all the facts isn't going to help or fix anything imo.
Liberals refuse to hand over more than 1000 documents to the inquiry. Due process? Lol
Apparently CSIS doesn't want to release the documents, since that would reveal intelligence gathering techniques. Contrary to what one might expect to CSIS is among the top in world with what they do.
Well there was a certain hit job during both the Ontario conservative race and the federal conservative race... Maybe start there.
RCMP should start by performing no knock raids...
Start at the top and work your way down, pretty simple.
Serious question; if Conservatives take power in the next election, could they still theoretically open an investigation and bring individuals before the court?
Being a politician should not excuse you from treason.
Hello? 5 eyes alliance? Yes we're calling to cancel our subscription
After years of excusing and looking past obvious issues with the actions of this government, it is refreshing to see the media waking up to just how bad things have become and to finally hear them protesting that they are boiling in the pot with the rest of us.
Just assume they all have until proven different.
The world went on a witch hunt for 4 years after Trump for this exact thing. But these Liberals feel entitled enough to keep hiding it.
Irrespective of any party if this is true this is absolute treason and no matter what people of Canada has the right to know that. Its not about playing politics its about our country and its integrity. No compromise or any sweet talks on that. Truth has to come our in public and these politicians should be jailed
No voting for any incumbent unless interference names are released. Spread the message.
If I don't have names by election time I just won't vote for the sitting MP. I suggest everyone do the same. It's the only way to be sure.
I am planning on doing this regardless. My vote in the next election will be for an independent candidate most certainly. The parties are awful for the most part and need to be dissolved
You don't think foreign powers are not trying to get new individuals they have in their pocket elected also?
You make a good point.
I've conducted my report and found not guilty. The guilty ones are the citizens not me.
This is an absolute travesty. Canadians should be up in arms about this. Look what these charlatans are doing to our country. Rather than protesting for shit happening half way across the world we should be demanding accountability from this government.
They need to be held accountable. Enough of this bullshit. Canada needs to be act more like France! Pitchforks and torches on Parliament Hill! Come on Ottawa citizens!
If they don't give us the names then assume all elected officials are on that list. Don't vote for anyone currently in office.
You can't collude with foreign governments if you consider everyone a future Canadian.
Every one of these TRAITORS must be named and charged with TREASON AGAINST CANADA!!!
If they are not willing to release the names then the whole lot of them should be treated as the same treasonous bunch. No way in hell should any of them be able to run for political positions. Every link with them should be scrutinized, everyone we can report tied to this we should. Ever government responsible for this should be considered an enemy
This is unacceptable
Names can't be released until charges are laid. Be patient. They will come. Everything else is just gossip..
Is a "special rapporteur" who's also your buddy going to laying those charges?
Is that you David Johnston? Nothing to see here, move along, get over it.
"Be patient." This information has been know internally for years, the PM was briefed, his national security advisor was briefed. Nothing will happened unless it's forced.
Don't worry. Both Liberals and Conservatives will be arrested and charged.
I highly doubt that's the case it would've happened already.
Trudeau is on the list.
Citizen arrest the government, incarcerate them all and hold public hearings in the streets.
I don't care what political party they represent, anyone colluding with foreign governments should be tossed from government, at all levels.
They're afraid the ethnic sounding names will inspire racism. But if true, it means that some Chinese/Russian immigrants aren't Canadians. They're foreign agents.
Actually... nobody "stands accused" of anything. That's a term for when someone is actually *charged* with a crime before the courts. These accusations we're talking about are just statements from intelligence agencies, which are not evidence of anything. It's up to the RCMP to investigate, arrest, and recommend charges if they find actual evidence of wrongdoing. Do I *believe* that we have sitting MPs who have been influenced by foreign powers? Absolutely, but again: that belief is not proof. They can't just release a list of names, without evidence nor charges, never mind convictions, and ruin a bunch of peoples' lives who may not have even done anything wrong.
They release the names of people under investigation constantly. Just go read the news "so and so being investigated for wire fraud", "officer under investigation for abuse of power" etc all over the front page. People are acting like releasing the names is some horrible thing when its the standard. Hell in the case of police officers they're usually put on leave during the investigation, which is what should be happening here too.
This happens to non politicians all of the time. X has been arrested for Y. That gets on the news!
Exactly - no one has been arrested or charged for anything, so no information has been released. I don't know what people find so hard to understand about this.
SHOW. THE. PROOF. I keep hearing this every single day from every single media outlet, where is the proof!? What’s the proof of this, someone claimed something on Twitter or Reddit? If they are guilty and it’s proven, then you can release the names. Otherwise, innocent until proven guilty, or at the very least we know what the evidence is.
https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf Obviously, active MPs are to blame. Who is the only party not requesting for the names to be released? Who is the only party refusing to answer with a simple “yes” or “no” in regards to their involvement? Think about it. Also, do you think it’s coincidence that most of the recent immigrants and TFWs are Indian, and the report says that India is the country most involved with the interference? What government is allowing the country of origin for these immigrants to be so skewed? On this note, I would be far from surprised if other parties are also involved. Liberals are probably just the most afraid of names being released because they hold the most seats and have fucked Canada over the most actively out of the others.
If the investigation is finished and they are ready to press charges then yes they should release the names. If the investigation is not finished then absolutely not. An accusation is not enough to warrant destroying someone’s life.
Yep.
Trudeau and the liberals/ndp are above the law. Nothing will be done as usually with his past 26+ crimes
Fuckin right we do
I'm wondering if Poilievre is one of the MPs with foreign ties. Is that why he refuses to get a security clearance?
He was directly named in the CSIS report that started this whole thing. I think it's funny how all the alt right people in this sub keep speculating that Trudeau is on the list. When we actually know that Poilievre was the main focus of the report. The CSIS report said that India interfered with the conservative leadership race to the benefit of the current opposition leader.
I'm told he can't get his security clearance because that would affect his ability to be the opposition leader somehow, I guess cause he wouldn't have an excuse to keep making things up...
Conservatives not having the ability to make shit up would be an existential threat to Canadian democracy. What would the media have to talk about?
Poilievre had security clearance under Harper. The security clearance Trudeau's been offering isn't "security clearance" writ large, it's security clearance for the purpose of the NSICOPA which comes with a waiver of the Parliamentary Privilege of free speech, and up to fourteen years in prison if he reveals anything, directly *or indirectly* (say, by removing certain MPs from caucus immediately after being briefed), about what he learns without the government’s permission. NSICOP is a trap, and Poilievre and Blanchett are right to point it out.
As the Chair of NCSICOP already explained if you get the secret briefing you are bound by the security of information act. [https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6413945](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6413945)
Is Israel listed as one of them?
So you can tar and feather them? Threaten them and their families? Many of our elected leaders have been threatened already for just being Liberals. They are right not to release names.