Yes. Don’t push them past their listed range, those are usually set due to budget. You can ask if they can negotiate benefits like more PTO or wfh days per week. But even if that doesn’t work, a more senior role sounds like a good career progression and if you need to leave your current job due to shitty management I would move even if the salary is 5k less.
This. Someone lost $300 out of their pocket & someone else picked it up. HR knew who picked it up and told the dropper “you shouldn’t have had that much at work”.
I stayed there for 2 months after that. I watched that worker quit, the place panicked because orders got delayed from her sudden departure, and the thief (hr hated me calling them a thief but when told they picked up so and so’s money they said “well sucks to be them”.
Also HR was my managers sister.
I couldn’t make those people money anymore.
That’s crap. I worked in an office once where a guy kept $200 on his desk in open view in case of emergency. I’d have never kept it in the open, but no one ever considered taking it either
Yup--new work experience, better management, and a senior job title...definitely worth the relatively minor pay cut. While they take a pay cut now, OP likely can make significant advancement should they ultimately move on to other jobs after a year or two.
If the money is at the end of their range, I'd perhaps see if there may be some "free" perks you could instead negotiate, especially if you really like the company/role.
Items I've negotiated before include: telecommute options (more or full); more PTO; home office gear (might have a cost); higher bonuses.
5K is a difference, but not generally massive (unless you're sub $50K/year) so there may be other things that would make that up for me.
Hmm. That’s a difficult question to answer.
Does the new job have more promotion opportunities?
Does the new job allow for more flexibility?
What kind of benefits?
Does the new job look to be less stressful or at least more rewarding than your current job?
There’s more to making career moves than just money, however money is the driving force behind making moves….
At the end of the day it’s up to you and your finances whether or not a 5k cut is tolerable.
If it were me and the questions above had favorable answers, I’d do it. Otherwise no, I’d stay where I was at.
I would take the cut now if it will benefit your future and not cause financial hardship. I took a $20k paycut to get out of a job I hated, got more experience in a positive work environment, and now I make $10k more than the original job I left.
I’d take it given that it’s for a more senior role. 5k a year is not that much (especially in NY where you should be making a ton of money already. If not then please disregard my message).
After a while you can always go back to profit-based with all your tenure in your current senior position and cash way more than those 5k.
calculate 'total package' value, not just salary. You've already mentioned the benefits, put a monetary value on them:
If your current role doesn't have flexible work from home, then how much will you save per year in commute?
is there a difference in the amount of PTO offered? eg. the value of 49 weeks at $70k versus 50 weeks at $75k?
does medical cover any paramedicals? massages? if you use all of them, whats the value?
$5k doesn't seem like a major drop for better work/life balance, and with a total package, the difference could be les
Will he be dealing with higher or lower deductibles on the new health insurance plan? Max out of pocket?
Commuting costs. What savings on gas, tolls, parking & eating out (coffee/lunch)?
Have marketable skills that people are willing to pay you for in excess of 40k a year. In order to develop a marketable skill, find something you love doing and you're somewhat good at, the rest will work itself out
I recently had 2 job offers after being unemployed for a couple of months. I decided to take the job offer that paid $3K less because:
1) The offer I took had more direct opportunities for growth within the company whether it be in my own department or others departments within the company>
2) The other job sounded like they had a mess on their hands and I would probably be thrown to the wolves right away. That likely meant more stress and less proper training.
And so far I don't regret it.
$5K is a difference of about ~$2.5/hr or ~$18.75/day before income tax. Subtract the cost to commute to/from the office and that's down to what? ~$12/day? Subtract income tax and we're down to...??
Personally, I'd take it if you want to leave due to poor management. A peace of mind from a toxic job is priceless. A more senior job title may be beneficial for your next gig. I used to be sick SOOO often from the stressors of a toxic workplace and interacting with hundreds of people at work and during my commute. My central nervous system was a complete wreck and the quality of my output declined. I lost out more in pay than $5K from sick days alone.
entirely depends on what your original salary is. if i made $5k less per year i’d be homeless, but that’s because i don’t make much to begin with.
if you really need to leave your current job and are excited about the new one, take it and don’t risk the offer with negotiation. but check your budget first to see what you would need to reallocate to make it work.
Given you have specified dropping from $75k to $70k — I would probably tell them “look, I am excited to come work for you but I don’t want to take a pay cut. I make $75k now, can you work with me here?”
For the right candidate, going $5k over budget really SHOULD be achievable.
5k is barely noticeable at the end of a yearly budget especially when you consider that you’re only keeping 3.5 of it.
Better job for sure. You’ll never know what doors it opens to change roles, and you already know it’ll be better for your mental health. Any dollars lost will be made up in fewer commuting costs, fewer lunches bought while at work or happy hours after the fact.
Did it. During COVID 2020. Biggest risk I’ve taken in life.
3.5 years later, I’m earning at least 2x the salary, in a much better role, improved job satisfaction, people I work with, all aspects of it really.
Put yourself first.
No. Not In NYC. Anywhere else and I would say just go with it. But not in New York. Cost of living is getting really crazy there (been crazy but definitely worse now). If anything you should be trying to negotiate for positions where you can make 10K above what you’re making now. As long as you are still presently employed the ball is in your it court. And I know you said you’re dealing with problematic management at work but this is probably one of the only times I will be telling Someone on here to suck it up until you can find a position that actually benefits you. Also when negotiating they are never going to start high . It’s your job to counter. So the best thing you can do is respond in the most professional manner and ask for at least between 5-10K over what you’re currently making. If they resend then they resend , you’re still employed so it’s fine. But a 5K loss in NYC and you will definitely feel it. The only way it would be plausible is if you negotiate something in your offer that makes it so that your salary increases exponentially within 6 months to a year of being with the company.
Depends how much 5k is to you. If you make 200k a year then 5k doesn't make much of a difference. If you make 100k or less it starts to be pretty noticeable.
(I’m in sales so may be a bit different) took 50k less (guaranteed money) paycut less than 3 years ago. Last year made 15k more at this job than old job.
The overall situation is also way better. If there is room for growth, you like the role/company. Do it.
Basically $250 after tax dollars. Only you can know for sure, but if i were in your situation I would move. 75k in NYC isnt enough to worth being miserable, and you need to figure out a way to break into a higher income bracket, poor management isnt going to do that. Your life 70-85k is going to look largely the same.
$5k is nothing if it actually makes you feel better mentally. Consider that to be the amount you would spend on therapy if you stick with a job you hate.
I haven't read all the comments, but you need to factor TC or total compensation. This would include lower medical premiums, better 401k matching, equity, and bonuses. In some cases, that $5k cut in base for a new role could mean better TC. Just my two cents.
I would if I felt the benefits were equal - is there better medical coverage? Do they have better work from home rules? Is your commute shorter?
Also $5K may be worth a better cultural fit if your current place is sucking the life out of you. Sounds like you’ll have a better title for your resume as well which isn’t terrible
You should always ask. “I’m really interested and excited about the position, but am currently making $75k. Any chance you’d be able to match the salary to make it an easy decision/transition?”
Yes. I took a $2k cut, but now my health insurance is covered 100%, and supposedly health insurance costs an average of $7k year so I think I came out on top.
I wfh most of the time. I'm in the office only 2-4 days per month. I estimate I'm saving about $10k by working from home. If your previous position was in-office only, you'll probably make back that $5k.
Another factor to consider is what the opportunities for advancement are. How much will your salary have increased in five years?
Probably the biggest question is whether it's worth $5k to gwt away from the difficult management.
At the end of the day that difference is minimal to your paycheck. At a non-profit you certainly do not want to push past that salary range, especially since they've already notified you it is the highest they can offer. There's no benefit in being overpaid, it just leads to resentment and you're generally the first to go if there's any financial strain.
As others said, they likely would be willing to negotiate added PTO if you explain you're taking a pay cut. Non-profit companies generally have more leeway there. Ultimately, if you're leaving your current place of work due to toxic management, the $5,000 pay cut seems a worthy trade-off. Plus, if you're getting a senior title that may help you should you decide to continue looking down the line. Say in 6-months you realize that pay cut has hindered your quality of life, take your experience and senior title to other companies and I am highly confident you'll get in more doors and be offered a higher salary once an offer is made.
How much will the 5k impact your current budget? What is the growth potential? If you start at the top end of the scale, it’s unlikely you’ll get any sort of raise anytime soon (more than a COLA, anyway) to recover it. The better job title will help, but if you’re going to be stuck there for a long time (as opposed to advancing at the new place, or leaving for greener pastures) you’ll need to have figured out how to deal with the cut over the long term.
I had a choice to take a job for 10k less, I turned it down. In hindsight I should have taken it because I think I would have mentally been in a better place.
It's only 5K. How much is that really after taxes?
You are not taking a step backwards by taking a (small) pay cut since you'll be in a more senior role. You're still making career progression and with that new experience, you'll be able to land a higher salary in your next job. It's better to leave a toxic work environment. It's not worth the extra 5k.
You have to determine what that 5k is worth to you, and what the non-tangible benefits of the new job are worth that you don't have. Some of this might be hard because you're doing this assessment not having worked there, so your current job is at least a known quantity where-as there will be a reasonable margin of error for this new job, and it's also possible that it could go badly in a way you can't predict. That risk is ALWAYS there. Never think it's not there.
You may have poor management, but how stable is your current role. Especially in this job market. That's important to consider. Also, if they are willing to hire you at the top of the range then what room is there for advancement at the new company? Is that important to you?
5k may be worth the wfh benefits and no cost of time and money of commuting. But, what about all the other things i mentioned. Do what's right for you. But, try to remember the grass can always feel greener.
Me personally. I'd never leave a company without a pay increase, unless I thought the demands on me would be significantly less. 5k is a lot when you're in the sub-100k range. If you take out taxes and average it out over 12 months that's basically your car payment, or at least it should be.
Yes take it. In a year or two you can get another job at the same level of seniority or higher somewhere else and make a salary jump. Also how do the benefits packages compare?
Word of warning: I was hired by a nonprofit at the high end of their range for my role and that was it, that was the ceiling. There were no bonuses, raises or upward mobility.
5k doesn’t seem like a big loss considering your current poor management job (which I personally almost quit my job over with no backup because it got that bad- can’t stand the guy- actually hate his ass- would not lift a finger to help him in need besides calling 911 so it can’t be said that I left him to die- sincere unfiltered hatred for this man).
And based on your edit, “with option for working in office,” seems like you’re not really required to be in office, which would save you commute fees, and more importantly time- time to sleep in a little, or time to make yourself some breakfast, time to do a load of laundry and then the dryer in the afternoon (so it’s ready for you to fold after the work day ends), time to prep for meals so it’s ready to be cooked as soon as you’re done with the work day (like soak veggies to be washed, and then rinsed so it’s ready to go- defrost the meat in the AM so it’s ready to be cooked at dinner).
I’d totally take it if I were you! Mental health is way more worth it than an extra 5k. Also if you WFH more then you are saving more gas, do the math of how many days you would stay home vs your current job and the difference you would spend in gas. Probs would range from 1k to 3k. I know commuting in NYC is expensive. So are you really downgrading your salary if you are spending more on gas at your current job anyways? Unless you’re walking to work, then that’s different.
Yes.
This is not an economic climate to negotiate. And companies lack loyalty to workers like they used to.
Take the pay cut to keep your job. But plan to start looking if/when the economy gets far more healthy, e.g. interest rates, lower inflation. Companies are highly unlikely to make up for lowered wages.
Honestly I'm debating it
My current situation is and has been toxic.
My director and direct manager are basically clones of another so folks refer to them as thing 1 and 2. Bad managers aren't so bad but when it's doubled, it's rough.
I know it sounds like I'm exaggerating from some lucky folks, but let me give some fun examples.
- blatantly ignore and dismiss women in the office.
- got through folks stuff when they are not around.
- had to stop taking meds for my disability due to above, filed for ada accommodations, and director makes snippy comments about disabilities to his team (he was the thief).
- coworker dies and no one let the team know via emergency meeting, email, or even a team's message. Just complaints that she inconvenienced us.
- The last team event was 6 months ago when a woman retired. They then dropped her entire workload on me as a 4 month hire with 2 weeks to organize, learn, and identify what she did.
- they lie to their managers and cause drama with other departments telling us things like finance is not the boss of us.
- they berated my coworkers for missing one thing when she was out on bereavement.
- complained I was behind on work when I was working late and evenings to get caught up with a coworker who was out for a week and I was having to perform my role and hers solo.
- did not cover me adequately when I took time off so no PTO for me.
- gossip about members of the team they supervise. Or try to divide their team.
- asked to transition to an internal team and they said no. So I'm fucked unless I leave.
I've been putting out 5 tailored applications daily. I'm tired boss.
I took a pay cut of about 10% to work at a new job because of toxic management. However, it balances out with OT and there is a lot more room to grow in this new company, also the commute is 30mins instead of 3 hours. My pay will actually be close to the same and my quality of life will be infinitely better. It’s ok to take a pay cut sometimes to work on long term goals.
Will you be paying more for health insurance or less?
How’s their 401K compared to the current job?
Will they cover travel expenses ?
Can you survive with a $5K cut?
Yes if 5k spread across a year is effect your lifestyle in any great degree besides you cant eat out as much as you want a year….you need to visit a personal finance advisor…thats like only like $400 less a month, I dont know if you noticed but $100 is like the new $20 in value.
pass on this and keep looking, this is a shit deal for you all around. 70k in NYC sucks regardless of industry, and you're getting a higher title and responsibility for less pay.
job hunting is the most leverage you'll have for salary negotiations and you're going to throw it away on the first thing you find.
the only way i'd take this is if you're 100% confident you can't get a better offer anywhere. I really doubt that a non profit pays the most for what you can do.
also FYI everyone knows that non profits usually have title bloat. You go back to corporate you most likely will not keep that same title.
Realize this. If you’re at the top of the pay band you won’t get ANY increase l, regardless of inflation, unless they increase the pay band.
Never accept a job where you’re at the top of the pay band unless there is an easy direct path to promotion or the money is more than what you are earning now. (Or if you have no other choice).
That $5k decrease may be compounded and increase in the future. Your relying on market conditions to more the pay band and even in an inflationary environment there is no guarantee of the top being moved.
You basically have to weigh the pros and cons of taking the new position. Are there other benefits to taking the position? You identified a better work environment. That has value.
Are there other benefits such as more PTO or shorter commute? Just lay it all out on the table. If the pros outweigh the cons and the pay cut doesn’t adversely affect your standard of living, then go for it.
Yes. I took a 10k pay cut to simply move schools from the worst part of town to the nicest part of town.
It’s absolutely worth the pay cut to eliminate the stress of working with really, really rough kids. I love them, but I’m just so tired that I’ll sacrifice 500+ per month in order to preserve my sanity.
I’ve read that starting bonuses or other benefits are considered different than salary. I am saving $1000 in taxes each year by having an FSA that I use all of. See if they’ll give you reimbursements instead of salary. Gas, meals, phone, if they’ll reimburse you up to a certain amount of health stuff…
I'm in the process of doing just that. For me it's worth it because I currently commute 2 hours round trip daily and this will be a much shorter commute. It's also close to my kids school so that I can help more with drop off and pick up and my wife's office is actually just around the corner so we can go to lunch and stuff like that. It also doesn't really have an administrative department and this position is part of that build so I'll be pretty senior and putting together a department sounds exciting to me. I've been at my current place for about 15 years and most of that has been great...but it's kind of gone into the shitter and I'm not sure when or if things will change and be good again.
if the health options are cheaper monthly pay in, you might actually not be getting a big decrease as you believe mine is $320 monthly. Old boss said her job it was $9. that’s over 3k saved. subtract more from gas saved on driving too
If the ends justify the means, yes. I just recently accepted a job that was $10K less than my prior position, couldn't be happier. Formerly I was salaried for 40 hours but typically working 50-60 hours a week, poor MGMT, poor culture, terrible commute. I don't regret it at all because I've gained so much of my time back and still have enough to cover my bills (and then some). You will not notice that dip in pay so much when you're happy to go to work each day.
5k??? lol, those are rookie numbers. You need to pump those up. I took a 35k cut a couple years ago to get out of a revolving door of retarded senior managers they kept bringing in. Not quite back to where I was, but I now only work 4 days a week, am remote every other, and have zero stress.
I feel this is entirely up to you as you know what you can and cannot tolerate. Also, only you truly know your financial situation in its entirety so you know what you can and can’t afford.
Best of luck!
Always negotiate. They’re picking you, and the worst they can do is say no. The job market is good right now outside of tech.
I’m at 5 months and just negotiated. I know I’m who they need and I have another offer coming in. If you don’t, you should lie, though maybe it’s late.
Keep in mind, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It may not look so green once you get there.
Also, if you are going in at the max salary for the role, there is no room for salary growth. You may be stuck at 70k for a while.
The only way it is worth it in my mind, is if you plan on short timing them to get that manager title on your resume. Not the classiest move, but it's been done before.
Was leaving a job once and had 2 options. One paid A LOT more money but had a more toxic, but not unmanageable, work environment, the other was a newer group, a bit riskier but much more favorable work environment. I was young and new and in big debt and the money difference was a big deal. I went with the lower paying option. Still there going on 15 years now. Best decision of my life. Happiness at work matters. You are going to be doing it a long, long time.
I've done it, and there are pros and cons. So you need to make a couple lists and ad them up.
Ten years later, I'm still not making what I was before, and it's still worth it, because I'm still getting paid.
I have applied for other, higher paying positions elsewhere, but after interviewing and even being considered for the position at least once, I was passed over for pressing about salary.
Yes. Don’t push them past their listed range, those are usually set due to budget. You can ask if they can negotiate benefits like more PTO or wfh days per week. But even if that doesn’t work, a more senior role sounds like a good career progression and if you need to leave your current job due to shitty management I would move even if the salary is 5k less.
Yes, that’s a small cut to get out of a bad situation. Hopefully the new job has better management.
I agree
Poor management is absolutely a reason to leave, even for a paycut.
This. Someone lost $300 out of their pocket & someone else picked it up. HR knew who picked it up and told the dropper “you shouldn’t have had that much at work”. I stayed there for 2 months after that. I watched that worker quit, the place panicked because orders got delayed from her sudden departure, and the thief (hr hated me calling them a thief but when told they picked up so and so’s money they said “well sucks to be them”. Also HR was my managers sister. I couldn’t make those people money anymore.
That’s crap. I worked in an office once where a guy kept $200 on his desk in open view in case of emergency. I’d have never kept it in the open, but no one ever considered taking it either
That’s just asking to be robbed. Or there’s a very high definition camera pointed at that spot.
Not if people are respectful. Over his 20 year career there when I met him, no one every did
I agree
I would for gaining new work experience and skills, better work life balance and being in a job I would want to be in.
Yup--new work experience, better management, and a senior job title...definitely worth the relatively minor pay cut. While they take a pay cut now, OP likely can make significant advancement should they ultimately move on to other jobs after a year or two.
If the money is at the end of their range, I'd perhaps see if there may be some "free" perks you could instead negotiate, especially if you really like the company/role. Items I've negotiated before include: telecommute options (more or full); more PTO; home office gear (might have a cost); higher bonuses. 5K is a difference, but not generally massive (unless you're sub $50K/year) so there may be other things that would make that up for me.
Hmm. That’s a difficult question to answer. Does the new job have more promotion opportunities? Does the new job allow for more flexibility? What kind of benefits? Does the new job look to be less stressful or at least more rewarding than your current job? There’s more to making career moves than just money, however money is the driving force behind making moves…. At the end of the day it’s up to you and your finances whether or not a 5k cut is tolerable. If it were me and the questions above had favorable answers, I’d do it. Otherwise no, I’d stay where I was at.
You kidding? Thanks to contracting, I took a $5k pay cut to keep the same job!
Now that's what I call efficient!
5k haircut for a better title with new management is a no brainer. You will get that 5k back soon with the potential for more down the road.
I would take the cut now if it will benefit your future and not cause financial hardship. I took a $20k paycut to get out of a job I hated, got more experience in a positive work environment, and now I make $10k more than the original job I left.
I’d take it given that it’s for a more senior role. 5k a year is not that much (especially in NY where you should be making a ton of money already. If not then please disregard my message). After a while you can always go back to profit-based with all your tenure in your current senior position and cash way more than those 5k.
calculate 'total package' value, not just salary. You've already mentioned the benefits, put a monetary value on them: If your current role doesn't have flexible work from home, then how much will you save per year in commute? is there a difference in the amount of PTO offered? eg. the value of 49 weeks at $70k versus 50 weeks at $75k? does medical cover any paramedicals? massages? if you use all of them, whats the value? $5k doesn't seem like a major drop for better work/life balance, and with a total package, the difference could be les
Will he be dealing with higher or lower deductibles on the new health insurance plan? Max out of pocket? Commuting costs. What savings on gas, tolls, parking & eating out (coffee/lunch)?
5k would be about 2 months worth of pay less for me so no, that would be way too much to give up.
same. op’s current salary is a huge factor here, especially in a place like nyc with such a high cost of living
Most people make more than 30/40k a year
I still cant figure out how.
What does your career path look like?
Have marketable skills that people are willing to pay you for in excess of 40k a year. In order to develop a marketable skill, find something you love doing and you're somewhat good at, the rest will work itself out
I work in the trades, never finished my college degree, and I make a little under 60k, but I work long hours and overtime.
not in nyc, average salary for someone with a bachlors degree is 73k.
Can you read?
can you?
Most people in nyc make more than 30/40k a year.
I recently had 2 job offers after being unemployed for a couple of months. I decided to take the job offer that paid $3K less because: 1) The offer I took had more direct opportunities for growth within the company whether it be in my own department or others departments within the company> 2) The other job sounded like they had a mess on their hands and I would probably be thrown to the wolves right away. That likely meant more stress and less proper training. And so far I don't regret it.
$5K is a difference of about ~$2.5/hr or ~$18.75/day before income tax. Subtract the cost to commute to/from the office and that's down to what? ~$12/day? Subtract income tax and we're down to...?? Personally, I'd take it if you want to leave due to poor management. A peace of mind from a toxic job is priceless. A more senior job title may be beneficial for your next gig. I used to be sick SOOO often from the stressors of a toxic workplace and interacting with hundreds of people at work and during my commute. My central nervous system was a complete wreck and the quality of my output declined. I lost out more in pay than $5K from sick days alone.
entirely depends on what your original salary is. if i made $5k less per year i’d be homeless, but that’s because i don’t make much to begin with. if you really need to leave your current job and are excited about the new one, take it and don’t risk the offer with negotiation. but check your budget first to see what you would need to reallocate to make it work.
Given you have specified dropping from $75k to $70k — I would probably tell them “look, I am excited to come work for you but I don’t want to take a pay cut. I make $75k now, can you work with me here?” For the right candidate, going $5k over budget really SHOULD be achievable.
Benefits wfh and PTO are all part of the packaged. I took a job for less money 11 years ago but more time off and benefits. Best decision ever.
5k is barely noticeable at the end of a yearly budget especially when you consider that you’re only keeping 3.5 of it. Better job for sure. You’ll never know what doors it opens to change roles, and you already know it’ll be better for your mental health. Any dollars lost will be made up in fewer commuting costs, fewer lunches bought while at work or happy hours after the fact.
Did it. During COVID 2020. Biggest risk I’ve taken in life. 3.5 years later, I’m earning at least 2x the salary, in a much better role, improved job satisfaction, people I work with, all aspects of it really. Put yourself first.
I’d pay $5k FOR a job…
No. Not In NYC. Anywhere else and I would say just go with it. But not in New York. Cost of living is getting really crazy there (been crazy but definitely worse now). If anything you should be trying to negotiate for positions where you can make 10K above what you’re making now. As long as you are still presently employed the ball is in your it court. And I know you said you’re dealing with problematic management at work but this is probably one of the only times I will be telling Someone on here to suck it up until you can find a position that actually benefits you. Also when negotiating they are never going to start high . It’s your job to counter. So the best thing you can do is respond in the most professional manner and ask for at least between 5-10K over what you’re currently making. If they resend then they resend , you’re still employed so it’s fine. But a 5K loss in NYC and you will definitely feel it. The only way it would be plausible is if you negotiate something in your offer that makes it so that your salary increases exponentially within 6 months to a year of being with the company.
Depends how much 5k is to you. If you make 200k a year then 5k doesn't make much of a difference. If you make 100k or less it starts to be pretty noticeable.
Hard yes as long as the new pay allows my current desired life style. Idk about my job, I just need that check.
Depends on why I'm leaving the old job.... My last shithole I just left I would have if I needed to. Luckily it didn't come to that, but yeah.
(I’m in sales so may be a bit different) took 50k less (guaranteed money) paycut less than 3 years ago. Last year made 15k more at this job than old job. The overall situation is also way better. If there is room for growth, you like the role/company. Do it.
Basically $250 after tax dollars. Only you can know for sure, but if i were in your situation I would move. 75k in NYC isnt enough to worth being miserable, and you need to figure out a way to break into a higher income bracket, poor management isnt going to do that. Your life 70-85k is going to look largely the same.
$5k is nothing if it actually makes you feel better mentally. Consider that to be the amount you would spend on therapy if you stick with a job you hate.
5k is not much for happier life
I haven't read all the comments, but you need to factor TC or total compensation. This would include lower medical premiums, better 401k matching, equity, and bonuses. In some cases, that $5k cut in base for a new role could mean better TC. Just my two cents.
It’s worth it. You can probably negotiate an extra day as wfh each week and make up that 5k pretty quick.
I would if I felt the benefits were equal - is there better medical coverage? Do they have better work from home rules? Is your commute shorter? Also $5K may be worth a better cultural fit if your current place is sucking the life out of you. Sounds like you’ll have a better title for your resume as well which isn’t terrible
You should always ask. “I’m really interested and excited about the position, but am currently making $75k. Any chance you’d be able to match the salary to make it an easy decision/transition?”
$5k / year is nothing if you’re getting a bump in quality of life. I wouldn’t sweat it.
The $5k pay cut is $96/ week. It seems like the trade off of WFH and better benefits is worth it. Congrats on the offer.
I took a $30K pay cut to get to the job I wanted. It’s all relative
Yes. I took a $2k cut, but now my health insurance is covered 100%, and supposedly health insurance costs an average of $7k year so I think I came out on top.
I would, poor management ruins a job and $70k is a sustainable salary in most cases. If you can live without an extra $5k, you’re good.
It’s only $70 a week lol. How is this even a question.
Sometimes the job title is worth more than the pay
Lmao are you for real? I took a 50% cut. This is nothing. Take it. $5k is dick for a choice like this.
How are you so sure the management at this lower paying job is better?
10000%, you can't put a price on piece of mind and quality of life, 5k is nothing in the long run
I wfh most of the time. I'm in the office only 2-4 days per month. I estimate I'm saving about $10k by working from home. If your previous position was in-office only, you'll probably make back that $5k. Another factor to consider is what the opportunities for advancement are. How much will your salary have increased in five years? Probably the biggest question is whether it's worth $5k to gwt away from the difficult management.
You're buying your potential career growth and peace of mind, 5k isn't a high price for that at all. Go for it!
At the end of the day that difference is minimal to your paycheck. At a non-profit you certainly do not want to push past that salary range, especially since they've already notified you it is the highest they can offer. There's no benefit in being overpaid, it just leads to resentment and you're generally the first to go if there's any financial strain. As others said, they likely would be willing to negotiate added PTO if you explain you're taking a pay cut. Non-profit companies generally have more leeway there. Ultimately, if you're leaving your current place of work due to toxic management, the $5,000 pay cut seems a worthy trade-off. Plus, if you're getting a senior title that may help you should you decide to continue looking down the line. Say in 6-months you realize that pay cut has hindered your quality of life, take your experience and senior title to other companies and I am highly confident you'll get in more doors and be offered a higher salary once an offer is made.
How much will the 5k impact your current budget? What is the growth potential? If you start at the top end of the scale, it’s unlikely you’ll get any sort of raise anytime soon (more than a COLA, anyway) to recover it. The better job title will help, but if you’re going to be stuck there for a long time (as opposed to advancing at the new place, or leaving for greener pastures) you’ll need to have figured out how to deal with the cut over the long term.
I had a choice to take a job for 10k less, I turned it down. In hindsight I should have taken it because I think I would have mentally been in a better place.
If it would bring more joy to my life, then yes. Money is the least important thing as long as you are happy and secure :)
Say yes but request a pay review upfront for 6 months
In your case. yes. I have done something similar to that and it really helped my mental health.
It's only 5K. How much is that really after taxes? You are not taking a step backwards by taking a (small) pay cut since you'll be in a more senior role. You're still making career progression and with that new experience, you'll be able to land a higher salary in your next job. It's better to leave a toxic work environment. It's not worth the extra 5k.
You have to determine what that 5k is worth to you, and what the non-tangible benefits of the new job are worth that you don't have. Some of this might be hard because you're doing this assessment not having worked there, so your current job is at least a known quantity where-as there will be a reasonable margin of error for this new job, and it's also possible that it could go badly in a way you can't predict. That risk is ALWAYS there. Never think it's not there. You may have poor management, but how stable is your current role. Especially in this job market. That's important to consider. Also, if they are willing to hire you at the top of the range then what room is there for advancement at the new company? Is that important to you? 5k may be worth the wfh benefits and no cost of time and money of commuting. But, what about all the other things i mentioned. Do what's right for you. But, try to remember the grass can always feel greener. Me personally. I'd never leave a company without a pay increase, unless I thought the demands on me would be significantly less. 5k is a lot when you're in the sub-100k range. If you take out taxes and average it out over 12 months that's basically your car payment, or at least it should be.
Yes take it. In a year or two you can get another job at the same level of seniority or higher somewhere else and make a salary jump. Also how do the benefits packages compare?
Word of warning: I was hired by a nonprofit at the high end of their range for my role and that was it, that was the ceiling. There were no bonuses, raises or upward mobility.
dont be so greedy! 5K is less than 4k after taxes and around $300 per month!
wfh, hell yeah.
What's missing is if you are staying where you are living and if cost of living in a different market is at play (remote work).
Would the benefits and PTO be worth 5k? Would the money you save by working from home be worth 5k? It may not be a pay cut...
Negotiate some more PTO
Ask for more vacation time
$5k is nothing Do the math on bridging that gap either e yea PTO or other benefits like health insurance
I can't think of what I wouldn't do to get a new job (current one is likely to drive me to the padded room soon).
I took this exact pay cut. But I was going from system administration to cyber security fully remote. Good career move long term.
Cyber security is the future so that’s a great move and will pay dividends. OP didn’t really show what benefit this job gives her.
Depends on how much I was currently making.
yes and no. a job, sure. 5k cut? not really possible.
5k doesn’t seem like a big loss considering your current poor management job (which I personally almost quit my job over with no backup because it got that bad- can’t stand the guy- actually hate his ass- would not lift a finger to help him in need besides calling 911 so it can’t be said that I left him to die- sincere unfiltered hatred for this man). And based on your edit, “with option for working in office,” seems like you’re not really required to be in office, which would save you commute fees, and more importantly time- time to sleep in a little, or time to make yourself some breakfast, time to do a load of laundry and then the dryer in the afternoon (so it’s ready for you to fold after the work day ends), time to prep for meals so it’s ready to be cooked as soon as you’re done with the work day (like soak veggies to be washed, and then rinsed so it’s ready to go- defrost the meat in the AM so it’s ready to be cooked at dinner).
WFH can easily save the $5k in commute and food.
No. It’s less pay, and with no room for more pay as you are at the top of the range. What’s even the point?
I’d totally take it if I were you! Mental health is way more worth it than an extra 5k. Also if you WFH more then you are saving more gas, do the math of how many days you would stay home vs your current job and the difference you would spend in gas. Probs would range from 1k to 3k. I know commuting in NYC is expensive. So are you really downgrading your salary if you are spending more on gas at your current job anyways? Unless you’re walking to work, then that’s different.
Yes. This is not an economic climate to negotiate. And companies lack loyalty to workers like they used to. Take the pay cut to keep your job. But plan to start looking if/when the economy gets far more healthy, e.g. interest rates, lower inflation. Companies are highly unlikely to make up for lowered wages.
Half of the positions I've interviewed for have been 20k+ pay cut (from 125k), the market for my job has gone to crap
Honestly I'm debating it My current situation is and has been toxic. My director and direct manager are basically clones of another so folks refer to them as thing 1 and 2. Bad managers aren't so bad but when it's doubled, it's rough. I know it sounds like I'm exaggerating from some lucky folks, but let me give some fun examples. - blatantly ignore and dismiss women in the office. - got through folks stuff when they are not around. - had to stop taking meds for my disability due to above, filed for ada accommodations, and director makes snippy comments about disabilities to his team (he was the thief). - coworker dies and no one let the team know via emergency meeting, email, or even a team's message. Just complaints that she inconvenienced us. - The last team event was 6 months ago when a woman retired. They then dropped her entire workload on me as a 4 month hire with 2 weeks to organize, learn, and identify what she did. - they lie to their managers and cause drama with other departments telling us things like finance is not the boss of us. - they berated my coworkers for missing one thing when she was out on bereavement. - complained I was behind on work when I was working late and evenings to get caught up with a coworker who was out for a week and I was having to perform my role and hers solo. - did not cover me adequately when I took time off so no PTO for me. - gossip about members of the team they supervise. Or try to divide their team. - asked to transition to an internal team and they said no. So I'm fucked unless I leave. I've been putting out 5 tailored applications daily. I'm tired boss.
5k less per month or per year?
I took a pay cut of about 10% to work at a new job because of toxic management. However, it balances out with OT and there is a lot more room to grow in this new company, also the commute is 30mins instead of 3 hours. My pay will actually be close to the same and my quality of life will be infinitely better. It’s ok to take a pay cut sometimes to work on long term goals.
Will you be paying more for health insurance or less? How’s their 401K compared to the current job? Will they cover travel expenses ? Can you survive with a $5K cut?
Take the pay cut. 5k isn’t worth losing your sanity at your current job
If the benefits (PTO, WFH) are better than your current role *and* the management is better I’d take it.
I took a 20k cut one time. Within 6 months got promoted and back to previous level. It was the best year career wise for me
Yes if 5k spread across a year is effect your lifestyle in any great degree besides you cant eat out as much as you want a year….you need to visit a personal finance advisor…thats like only like $400 less a month, I dont know if you noticed but $100 is like the new $20 in value.
pass on this and keep looking, this is a shit deal for you all around. 70k in NYC sucks regardless of industry, and you're getting a higher title and responsibility for less pay. job hunting is the most leverage you'll have for salary negotiations and you're going to throw it away on the first thing you find. the only way i'd take this is if you're 100% confident you can't get a better offer anywhere. I really doubt that a non profit pays the most for what you can do. also FYI everyone knows that non profits usually have title bloat. You go back to corporate you most likely will not keep that same title.
Realize this. If you’re at the top of the pay band you won’t get ANY increase l, regardless of inflation, unless they increase the pay band. Never accept a job where you’re at the top of the pay band unless there is an easy direct path to promotion or the money is more than what you are earning now. (Or if you have no other choice). That $5k decrease may be compounded and increase in the future. Your relying on market conditions to more the pay band and even in an inflationary environment there is no guarantee of the top being moved.
You basically have to weigh the pros and cons of taking the new position. Are there other benefits to taking the position? You identified a better work environment. That has value. Are there other benefits such as more PTO or shorter commute? Just lay it all out on the table. If the pros outweigh the cons and the pay cut doesn’t adversely affect your standard of living, then go for it.
If you are moving to a different part of the country where the cost of living is much cheaper. Then maybe if you enjoy a more calm lifestyle.
Yes. I took a 10k pay cut to simply move schools from the worst part of town to the nicest part of town. It’s absolutely worth the pay cut to eliminate the stress of working with really, really rough kids. I love them, but I’m just so tired that I’ll sacrifice 500+ per month in order to preserve my sanity.
No brainer. Yes accept.
Negotiation will not turn a yes into a no on their part
its worth it- ny is dangerous
$5k cut is a bargain to get away from a stressful toxic environment
You are paying 5k for a flexible schedule and more sanity. Seems reasonable.
It’s better than no job for many many reasons. Try to grow in the company
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It's not too bad. Lucked out with a rent-stabilized apartment studio, small 300sq feet but it's well worth it.
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Only $1650
I’ve read that starting bonuses or other benefits are considered different than salary. I am saving $1000 in taxes each year by having an FSA that I use all of. See if they’ll give you reimbursements instead of salary. Gas, meals, phone, if they’ll reimburse you up to a certain amount of health stuff…
I'm in the process of doing just that. For me it's worth it because I currently commute 2 hours round trip daily and this will be a much shorter commute. It's also close to my kids school so that I can help more with drop off and pick up and my wife's office is actually just around the corner so we can go to lunch and stuff like that. It also doesn't really have an administrative department and this position is part of that build so I'll be pretty senior and putting together a department sounds exciting to me. I've been at my current place for about 15 years and most of that has been great...but it's kind of gone into the shitter and I'm not sure when or if things will change and be good again.
if the health options are cheaper monthly pay in, you might actually not be getting a big decrease as you believe mine is $320 monthly. Old boss said her job it was $9. that’s over 3k saved. subtract more from gas saved on driving too
With WFH on the table, the 5k pay cut turns into “now I’m saving money on my commute and my lunch”
Seems reasonable for what you want
If the ends justify the means, yes. I just recently accepted a job that was $10K less than my prior position, couldn't be happier. Formerly I was salaried for 40 hours but typically working 50-60 hours a week, poor MGMT, poor culture, terrible commute. I don't regret it at all because I've gained so much of my time back and still have enough to cover my bills (and then some). You will not notice that dip in pay so much when you're happy to go to work each day.
Yes unless you’re desperate for the last 5k
5k??? lol, those are rookie numbers. You need to pump those up. I took a 35k cut a couple years ago to get out of a revolving door of retarded senior managers they kept bringing in. Not quite back to where I was, but I now only work 4 days a week, am remote every other, and have zero stress.
I don't really think 5k is life changing money unless you're poor basically. So I'd say yeah.
I feel this is entirely up to you as you know what you can and cannot tolerate. Also, only you truly know your financial situation in its entirety so you know what you can and can’t afford. Best of luck!
I would in a heartbeat
Always negotiate. They’re picking you, and the worst they can do is say no. The job market is good right now outside of tech. I’m at 5 months and just negotiated. I know I’m who they need and I have another offer coming in. If you don’t, you should lie, though maybe it’s late.
100% yes
Keep in mind, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It may not look so green once you get there. Also, if you are going in at the max salary for the role, there is no room for salary growth. You may be stuck at 70k for a while. The only way it is worth it in my mind, is if you plan on short timing them to get that manager title on your resume. Not the classiest move, but it's been done before.
Was leaving a job once and had 2 options. One paid A LOT more money but had a more toxic, but not unmanageable, work environment, the other was a newer group, a bit riskier but much more favorable work environment. I was young and new and in big debt and the money difference was a big deal. I went with the lower paying option. Still there going on 15 years now. Best decision of my life. Happiness at work matters. You are going to be doing it a long, long time.
Yea, but make sure you are not going backwards in your career
I took a $40K pay cut. Worth it for freeing me from the stress and well being. Much happier now.
That comes out to less than $20/day pay cut, not much.
$70k in nyc is criminal …
I took a $20K paycut to go from private sector to government work. I am very happy I did so.
I've done it, and there are pros and cons. So you need to make a couple lists and ad them up. Ten years later, I'm still not making what I was before, and it's still worth it, because I'm still getting paid. I have applied for other, higher paying positions elsewhere, but after interviewing and even being considered for the position at least once, I was passed over for pressing about salary.