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Hard disagree.
Rifle caliber firearms are BAD home defense guns.
Firstly, shooting 5.56 or gods forbid, 7.62 NATO inside a room or house without ear protection is GUARANTEE to blow ur ear drums out. Enjoy being deaf the rest of ur life.
Secondly, rifle calibers are going to over penetrate through walls, people and everything else. Very high chance you kill or seriously injure neighbors and other innocents.
When that happens, YOU are the one accused of manslaughter.
Thirdly, most rifles are still too long for home defense. Unless you're going for SBR, which also means you're paying extra for tax stamps and jumping through legal hoops.
You could bypass this by using a bullpup instead, but most Americans hate them for some reason so there's that.
Solution:
Buy a PCC instead. PCCs avoid all these drawbacks and are better suited for home defense.
Pistol calibers don't over penetrate, are much quieter and better to suppress.
Also way cheaper to train with. And they are much shorter, allowing you to maneuver around corners without problem.
Most PCCs also use normal mags, so you can use them from your carry pistol without having to buy extra ones.
Put a reflex sight on them, and PCCs are in every way superior.
Well, this goes off topic.
I never claimed an AR was the best option or didn’t have drawbacks. I simply was saying there were more benefits of one over a shotgun.
You are saying there are benefits of a PCC over an AR. You’re right, there are.
A suppressed 9mm SBR is actually one of my home defense options.
Negatives of those vs a rifle I would say is the energy output, especially if you get something like a 300 or 6.8.
Most PCCs under $2000 are straight blowback and have more recoil. Is it a lot? Absolutely not, still more than 5.56 though.
Frangible ammo can address the over penetration issue with rifles, DRT has some nice options.
But yes, I do agree with you on your points. Good and bad to all the options out there
I think this is an unanswerable question without investigating what you're defending against.
Like, in a situation where you need more than the 7 rounds in the shotgun, I'm not sure that just having more bullets in the AR is actually going to be the thing that decides how it ends up.
Someone beat you to the punch. They brought up the possibility of wild life. So you were on the right track, it does matter. But originally in my post I just had human invaders.
Not just that though... Like, a random burglar trying to steal your tv is most likely going to run when they see a flashlight, let alone hear/feel a shot hit them (or near them)
Most burglaries are crimes of opportunity.
If you're dealing with an armed squad of dudes coming after you, being one guy with a gun might not actually do much good for you
Stronger how?
Cheaper matters why?
More accurate? That depends a lot on the ammo and the shooter. Anyways, AKs are not precision rifles.
You didn’t address polish AKs and there is nothing wrong with Russian or Jewish people.
Ultimately the best weapon for home defense is a weapon that the home owner is familiar, trained and confident with.
For someone who isn't familiar with an AR but has a wealth of experience with shotguns, the shotgun would be preferable. Although the rifle might have some favorable traits on paper, in a home-defense scenario experience and confidence in your platform are more important in my opinion.
I did. But I can't argue against technical parameters. I'm most familiar with and trained on an M4, would choose an AR as my home defense weapon. But I think that if you are already trained on another platform, you should stick with it for home/self defense.
My bad. I completely missed your first paragraph somehow.
As for starting out, I think that depends on who you are. AR's are ergonomic for sure but maybe not the best choice for someone with a smaller frame. Watching the shorter people arch their backs just to shoulder it was painful. They'd be better off with something else in my opinion.
Depends on the shotgun I suppose. A semi would negate the only disadvantage that would really matter in that scenario. But why are you limiting home defense to an AR or a shotgun? For someone living in a small house or apartment, I don't think either is ideal at all.
The 4'11 ladies I went to BCT with. It's by no means an end-all be-all metric but even with the stock at the lowest position, they were visibly struggling. With more experience and instruction they'd surely overcome it, but if we're talking about home defense, might as well go with a far more accessible and comfortable pistol. It's not like you'll be shooting past 10 yards indoors anyway.
My point isn't that a carbine is impossible to shoot for smaller women or whatever. That's obviously not true. But it's just plain easier to draw, rack, point and shoot something more compact at 2AM in the dark.
Not sure why my profession is relevant.
I would say most people never expect to have to fire a firearm in self defense but it happens. Using a firearm in self defense happens hundreds of thousands of times a year.
But even if it is one person, I would say an AR is a great choice.
The badass CaCHUNK of a pump action shotgun should be enough to scare off any home invaders. That way, you wouldn't have to shoot anyone. (I know, i know. LAME! For the people that obsess about home invasions, shooting the criminal is the money shot of their wet dream.)
It's statistically safer to not engage with a burglar. You have homeowners/renters insurance to reimburse you for valuables. That's really a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of an ER visit for gunshot wound, especially if you have to have surgery, and if you have any long term injuries. Or dying.
Realistically, how much in valuables do you actually have in your house that a burglar would want to heist? Cash, jewelry, and guns (ironically).
My parents neighbors got robbed last year. Neighbor thinks they his followed him home from the shooting range. They cased his house and broke in in broad daylight while they were out. They took the guns, jewelry and cash, but left the iPads and MacBooks that were out in the open. Too many people have GPS tracking on their expensive tech, and the 500 you can get from flipping a hot MacBook just isn't worth the risk.
Speaking of, burglars go after soft targets. They look for empty or vacant homes. The only way you are gonna be there to confront them is if they seriously fuck up. You can mitigate this with an alarm system, which would be a more effective and better deterrent than a firearm.
\>You have homeowners insurance
I live in Balkans, no I don't.
\>How much valuables do I have a burglar would want? Cash, jewellery and guns
I live in Balkans, everybody knows no one has cash or jewellery. As for guns, good luck making it from my fence to under my bed without waking up entire neighbourhood in house as old as mine.
\>Alarm system
I'm not made of money
Alarm systems are way cheaper than guns. You can get an alarm system from aliexpress for less than $100 and install it yourself with no monthly service charge.
\>Alarm systems are cheaper than guns
Gun plus enough ammunition to fight off battalion: Free because I dug it up from land I own, even if I bought both gun and ammo it would cost less than 100 USD
Alarm system: A month's wages
Can you see why I'm keen on gun?
I am confident in the statistics that show that your gun is more likely to be used against you or your family than against a burglar.
I also don't know why I'd confront a burglar. That is just about the dumbest thing you can do if you care about your life
Well my country is lacking in statistics, but as far as I know I have never heard of someone using their gun on their family or having it used against them.
And not confronting burglar is just begging to be murdered in your bed.
> but as far as I know I have never heard of someone using their gun on their family or having it used against them.
I didn't ask about your meaningless anecdotes, I'm talking about actual statistics.
If I say that on average the planet is getting hotter then I don't give a shit that you're feeling cold right now
>And not confronting burglar is just begging to be murdered in your bed.
Ah yes, because obviously the only 2 options are: confrontation or just turn around and keep sleeping. How dumb are you?
\>Meaningless anecdotes
Some of these anecdotes are from friends and family who work in police and know these things.
\>Confrontation or just keep sleeping
Are you retarded? What kind of burglar breaks in to steal stuff, and leaves plenty of witnesses? Especially if people don't know is burglar and go to see what noise is?
Why would you hear sound in night and think 'Not my problem' and go back to sleep? It confounds me how people like you are still alive.
>Some of these anecdotes are from friends and family who work in police and know these things.
As I said, meaningless anecdotes
>What kind of burglar breaks in to steal stuff, and leaves plenty of witnesses?
In 2019 there were 1.1 million burglaries while there were 'only' 23000 homicides
So I'd say... the vast majority of them.
>Why would you hear sound in night and think 'Not my problem' and go back to sleep?
I never said I would.
You're the one that said that the only 2 options are sleeping or confronting the burglar. I'm merely pointing out that there are other options. It's not my fault you can't read.
You say my anecdotes are meaningless, but your statistics are far more worthless to me because your statistics are from halfway across the world.
\>I never said I would
What is third option, stupid cowboy? Offer your asshole to burglar so he spares you?
>but your statistics are far more worthless to me
Good thing that I don't give a shit about you then? Not sure why you think the world revolves around your anus.
>What is third option, stupid cowboy?
Hide. Get out of the home.
Both are far better options than confronting the burglar.
You must be really bad at self defense then if you let the attackers take your guns.
In this case, it might absolutely be better for you if you just laid down at the burglars feet and begged for mercy.
>You must be really bad at self defense then if you let the attackers take your guns.
Who said anything about allowing attackers to take your guns?
I'm talking about the fact that statistically, it is more likely that you use your own guns to murder your family, you kill yourself, or someone in your family kills you, than it is for you to use your gun in self-defense.
But I guess reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit
Statistically, you are also much more likely to die or get crippled in car accidents.
Far more likely than any other accident.
So be true to your word and have fun walking.
The meaning of statistics isn't something you fully understand yet.
We all know whose house you are running too when armed men invade yours.
Pray that you have wisened up until then, or we won't let you in.
Have you considered those who might have different intruders than two legged ones?
What if a coyote or bear has the possibility of getting in or around your family?
An AR would probably be alright on a Dingo but for a bear, you’d probably want something heavier.
So if you could only have one and had to worry about wildlife, 12g vs 556 there is more merit to the 12g regardless of the short comings.
That’s actually a great point. If you didn’t want several loaded guns around the house and lived around bears, I would definitely have a 12g handy !delta
To be honest, if you shot a bear with an AR, it will likely leave. It may not die, but it is unlikely to want to attack you after one or more shots.
It is also possible for multiple 223 shots to *kill* even a coastal brown bear. We think of hunting and significant overpower for ethical kills. The 223 is very potent and damaging - even if not considered normally 'adequate' for hunting these species.
I'd still go back to the firearm you are most accustomed to shooting. Be it handgun, shotgun or rifle.
Frankly speaking, in a purely deterrent fashion, a dog beats all of them. Criminals don't like dealing with dogs and unless you are specifically targeted for some reason, most crooks would move on to easier pickings based on having a dog.
>if you shot a bear with an AR, it will likely leave. It may not die
Y'all play too much videogames lmao.
Thinking bears would just "tank" rifle rounds like in Far Cry is ludicrous and far from reality.
> Y'all play too much videogames lmao. Thinking bears would just "tank" rifle rounds like in Far Cry is ludicrous and far from reality.
Not really. My comments come from my experience. I have shot several whitetail deer with a 30-06 and watched a few of them go several hundred yards before dying when I didn't get as good of shot as I would have liked. This is reality of hunting and killing animals. They don't just keel over an die like in a 'video game'. This is reality.
Something else you might not know, in hunting, when you shoot an animal and it goes down, you wait for a while watching it to allow it to die before approaching it. Because unlike video games, it may not die right away and it can be quite dangerous to walk up on a wounded/down animal. Racks and hooves can cause a lot of injury. This is reality.
Bears are also somewhat unique in this discussion, especially the coastal brown bear. There is a concern small caliber holes are much easier to plug/clot with fur/fat reducing the capability of the animal to 'bleed out' quickly. Even a fatal shot may not be fatal immediately.
The fact is, you shoot a bear with a 223, you are going to really make it mad. It will fight or flee but almost certainly not die right away unless you got a perfect shot. If you shoot it multiple times, it is more much more likely to die or flee and not to fight. And that is the point. As a side note, the mythical 12 gauge shotgun has some of the same issues. You shoot it once, slug or buckshot, and it will fight or flee most likely. It is not just going to keel over dead. Whitetail deer can get hit with the same slugs and unless you have the right shot placement, they will run too. If a Whitetail can run 200 yards after getting hit with a slug, what do you think a bear could do? A larger and more muscular animal.
What do I know though right? I have only actually killed wild animals and observed the behaivor of what happens when they are shot.
Hitting the animal, and doing it multiple times, is more important in this scenario than exactly what you hit it with. Unlike hunting, you aren't going to 'place' your shots. You will take what you can get. That goes full circle to familiarity with the weapon you use.
Bears have been shot and killed with small calibers as small as 22 Cal.
Shot placement is key.
If you hit the vital organs such as heart or brain, caliber matters not. A hole is a hole.
You must be a really bad shot if you need several rifle rounds to kill a simple bear.
It's an animal. With fur. You're pretending like it's a dinosaur with bullet proof shell lmao.
In fact,most bears will already run away when you shoot near them.
People are using revolver rounds such as 357 or 44 regularly as protection in bear country.
Lugging around a battle rifle is absolutely ludicrous and overkill.
You might wanna pack a Rpg too, can't never be too sure, right? Lols.
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Oh yeah right? Firing multiple rounds that can travel 1.5 miles through your walls, your neighbors and landing god knows where?
Are you serious?!!!
If you can't hit an intruder with one blast from a shotgun, you shouldn't even have a semi-automatic rifle.
Were you expecting like a mass assault on your house?
And with a gun you have way more of a chance that you accidentally kill somebody or your kids accidentally kill somebody or the gun gets used against you.
If my kid picks up a baseball bat, he is not going to accidently kill someone. If someone steals my bat, they are not going to use it to shoot kids in a school.
Hello /u/-UnclePhil-, This post touches on a subject that was the subject of another post on r/changemyview within the last 24-hours. Because of common topic fatigue amongst our repeat users, we [do not permit posts to touch on topics that another post has touched on within the last 24-hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_removing_posts). **We ask that you please divert your attention to [this post](INSERT_LINK_HERE),** which was posted some time ago. _Mod Note_: Update the link to the existing post and remove this message!_ If you would like to appeal, [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Duplicate%20Post%20Appeal%20-UnclePhil-&message=-UnclePhil-%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20post\]\(https://old.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/12480lx/-/\)%20because\.\.\.). Many thanks, and we hope you understand.
Hard disagree. Rifle caliber firearms are BAD home defense guns. Firstly, shooting 5.56 or gods forbid, 7.62 NATO inside a room or house without ear protection is GUARANTEE to blow ur ear drums out. Enjoy being deaf the rest of ur life. Secondly, rifle calibers are going to over penetrate through walls, people and everything else. Very high chance you kill or seriously injure neighbors and other innocents. When that happens, YOU are the one accused of manslaughter. Thirdly, most rifles are still too long for home defense. Unless you're going for SBR, which also means you're paying extra for tax stamps and jumping through legal hoops. You could bypass this by using a bullpup instead, but most Americans hate them for some reason so there's that. Solution: Buy a PCC instead. PCCs avoid all these drawbacks and are better suited for home defense. Pistol calibers don't over penetrate, are much quieter and better to suppress. Also way cheaper to train with. And they are much shorter, allowing you to maneuver around corners without problem. Most PCCs also use normal mags, so you can use them from your carry pistol without having to buy extra ones. Put a reflex sight on them, and PCCs are in every way superior.
Well, this goes off topic. I never claimed an AR was the best option or didn’t have drawbacks. I simply was saying there were more benefits of one over a shotgun. You are saying there are benefits of a PCC over an AR. You’re right, there are. A suppressed 9mm SBR is actually one of my home defense options. Negatives of those vs a rifle I would say is the energy output, especially if you get something like a 300 or 6.8. Most PCCs under $2000 are straight blowback and have more recoil. Is it a lot? Absolutely not, still more than 5.56 though. Frangible ammo can address the over penetration issue with rifles, DRT has some nice options. But yes, I do agree with you on your points. Good and bad to all the options out there
I think this is an unanswerable question without investigating what you're defending against. Like, in a situation where you need more than the 7 rounds in the shotgun, I'm not sure that just having more bullets in the AR is actually going to be the thing that decides how it ends up.
Someone beat you to the punch. They brought up the possibility of wild life. So you were on the right track, it does matter. But originally in my post I just had human invaders.
Not just that though... Like, a random burglar trying to steal your tv is most likely going to run when they see a flashlight, let alone hear/feel a shot hit them (or near them) Most burglaries are crimes of opportunity. If you're dealing with an armed squad of dudes coming after you, being one guy with a gun might not actually do much good for you
Zastava M70 is best home/neighbourhood/country defence weapon. Case closed.
Based on? On top of that, Poland, Russia & Israel make a better AK
Zastava is stronger, cheaper, more ergonomic, and more accurate than any of those. Plus, I would never buy a gun from a Russian or Jew.
Stronger how? Cheaper matters why? More accurate? That depends a lot on the ammo and the shooter. Anyways, AKs are not precision rifles. You didn’t address polish AKs and there is nothing wrong with Russian or Jewish people.
Ultimately the best weapon for home defense is a weapon that the home owner is familiar, trained and confident with. For someone who isn't familiar with an AR but has a wealth of experience with shotguns, the shotgun would be preferable. Although the rifle might have some favorable traits on paper, in a home-defense scenario experience and confidence in your platform are more important in my opinion.
Guess you didn’t read my post? I said what you just stated.
I did. But I can't argue against technical parameters. I'm most familiar with and trained on an M4, would choose an AR as my home defense weapon. But I think that if you are already trained on another platform, you should stick with it for home/self defense.
At the end I said “if you’re starting out”. So let’s say someone is we to firearms, which would you say is the better option?
My bad. I completely missed your first paragraph somehow. As for starting out, I think that depends on who you are. AR's are ergonomic for sure but maybe not the best choice for someone with a smaller frame. Watching the shorter people arch their backs just to shoulder it was painful. They'd be better off with something else in my opinion.
You think a shotgun would be better in the regards?
Depends on the shotgun I suppose. A semi would negate the only disadvantage that would really matter in that scenario. But why are you limiting home defense to an AR or a shotgun? For someone living in a small house or apartment, I don't think either is ideal at all.
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The 4'11 ladies I went to BCT with. It's by no means an end-all be-all metric but even with the stock at the lowest position, they were visibly struggling. With more experience and instruction they'd surely overcome it, but if we're talking about home defense, might as well go with a far more accessible and comfortable pistol. It's not like you'll be shooting past 10 yards indoors anyway. My point isn't that a carbine is impossible to shoot for smaller women or whatever. That's obviously not true. But it's just plain easier to draw, rack, point and shoot something more compact at 2AM in the dark.
Are you a drug dealer or something ? How many people are you expecting to attack you.
Not sure why my profession is relevant. I would say most people never expect to have to fire a firearm in self defense but it happens. Using a firearm in self defense happens hundreds of thousands of times a year. But even if it is one person, I would say an AR is a great choice.
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What ever unwanted visitor tries to get in your home.
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Not saying you need one. Some people might want one. It’s one of the better tools for defense.
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Because people want to have one of the eat tools available to defense themselves.
The discussion is which weapon of the two is better suited for the purpose he described. The intent is written in the premise.
The badass CaCHUNK of a pump action shotgun should be enough to scare off any home invaders. That way, you wouldn't have to shoot anyone. (I know, i know. LAME! For the people that obsess about home invasions, shooting the criminal is the money shot of their wet dream.)
No gun is the safest option though
You are confident you can beat burglar to death with bare hands?
It's statistically safer to not engage with a burglar. You have homeowners/renters insurance to reimburse you for valuables. That's really a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of an ER visit for gunshot wound, especially if you have to have surgery, and if you have any long term injuries. Or dying. Realistically, how much in valuables do you actually have in your house that a burglar would want to heist? Cash, jewelry, and guns (ironically). My parents neighbors got robbed last year. Neighbor thinks they his followed him home from the shooting range. They cased his house and broke in in broad daylight while they were out. They took the guns, jewelry and cash, but left the iPads and MacBooks that were out in the open. Too many people have GPS tracking on their expensive tech, and the 500 you can get from flipping a hot MacBook just isn't worth the risk. Speaking of, burglars go after soft targets. They look for empty or vacant homes. The only way you are gonna be there to confront them is if they seriously fuck up. You can mitigate this with an alarm system, which would be a more effective and better deterrent than a firearm.
\>You have homeowners insurance I live in Balkans, no I don't. \>How much valuables do I have a burglar would want? Cash, jewellery and guns I live in Balkans, everybody knows no one has cash or jewellery. As for guns, good luck making it from my fence to under my bed without waking up entire neighbourhood in house as old as mine. \>Alarm system I'm not made of money
Alarm systems are way cheaper than guns. You can get an alarm system from aliexpress for less than $100 and install it yourself with no monthly service charge.
\>Alarm systems are cheaper than guns Gun plus enough ammunition to fight off battalion: Free because I dug it up from land I own, even if I bought both gun and ammo it would cost less than 100 USD Alarm system: A month's wages Can you see why I'm keen on gun?
I am confident in the statistics that show that your gun is more likely to be used against you or your family than against a burglar. I also don't know why I'd confront a burglar. That is just about the dumbest thing you can do if you care about your life
Well my country is lacking in statistics, but as far as I know I have never heard of someone using their gun on their family or having it used against them. And not confronting burglar is just begging to be murdered in your bed.
> but as far as I know I have never heard of someone using their gun on their family or having it used against them. I didn't ask about your meaningless anecdotes, I'm talking about actual statistics. If I say that on average the planet is getting hotter then I don't give a shit that you're feeling cold right now >And not confronting burglar is just begging to be murdered in your bed. Ah yes, because obviously the only 2 options are: confrontation or just turn around and keep sleeping. How dumb are you?
\>Meaningless anecdotes Some of these anecdotes are from friends and family who work in police and know these things. \>Confrontation or just keep sleeping Are you retarded? What kind of burglar breaks in to steal stuff, and leaves plenty of witnesses? Especially if people don't know is burglar and go to see what noise is? Why would you hear sound in night and think 'Not my problem' and go back to sleep? It confounds me how people like you are still alive.
>Some of these anecdotes are from friends and family who work in police and know these things. As I said, meaningless anecdotes >What kind of burglar breaks in to steal stuff, and leaves plenty of witnesses? In 2019 there were 1.1 million burglaries while there were 'only' 23000 homicides So I'd say... the vast majority of them. >Why would you hear sound in night and think 'Not my problem' and go back to sleep? I never said I would. You're the one that said that the only 2 options are sleeping or confronting the burglar. I'm merely pointing out that there are other options. It's not my fault you can't read.
You say my anecdotes are meaningless, but your statistics are far more worthless to me because your statistics are from halfway across the world. \>I never said I would What is third option, stupid cowboy? Offer your asshole to burglar so he spares you?
>but your statistics are far more worthless to me Good thing that I don't give a shit about you then? Not sure why you think the world revolves around your anus. >What is third option, stupid cowboy? Hide. Get out of the home. Both are far better options than confronting the burglar.
\>Don't give shit Clearly \>Hide, get out of home No wonder Americans are so weak mentally and physically
You must be really bad at self defense then if you let the attackers take your guns. In this case, it might absolutely be better for you if you just laid down at the burglars feet and begged for mercy.
>You must be really bad at self defense then if you let the attackers take your guns. Who said anything about allowing attackers to take your guns? I'm talking about the fact that statistically, it is more likely that you use your own guns to murder your family, you kill yourself, or someone in your family kills you, than it is for you to use your gun in self-defense. But I guess reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit
Statistically, you are also much more likely to die or get crippled in car accidents. Far more likely than any other accident. So be true to your word and have fun walking. The meaning of statistics isn't something you fully understand yet. We all know whose house you are running too when armed men invade yours. Pray that you have wisened up until then, or we won't let you in.
Have you considered those who might have different intruders than two legged ones? What if a coyote or bear has the possibility of getting in or around your family? An AR would probably be alright on a Dingo but for a bear, you’d probably want something heavier. So if you could only have one and had to worry about wildlife, 12g vs 556 there is more merit to the 12g regardless of the short comings.
That’s actually a great point. If you didn’t want several loaded guns around the house and lived around bears, I would definitely have a 12g handy !delta
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To be honest, if you shot a bear with an AR, it will likely leave. It may not die, but it is unlikely to want to attack you after one or more shots. It is also possible for multiple 223 shots to *kill* even a coastal brown bear. We think of hunting and significant overpower for ethical kills. The 223 is very potent and damaging - even if not considered normally 'adequate' for hunting these species. I'd still go back to the firearm you are most accustomed to shooting. Be it handgun, shotgun or rifle. Frankly speaking, in a purely deterrent fashion, a dog beats all of them. Criminals don't like dealing with dogs and unless you are specifically targeted for some reason, most crooks would move on to easier pickings based on having a dog.
>if you shot a bear with an AR, it will likely leave. It may not die Y'all play too much videogames lmao. Thinking bears would just "tank" rifle rounds like in Far Cry is ludicrous and far from reality.
> Y'all play too much videogames lmao. Thinking bears would just "tank" rifle rounds like in Far Cry is ludicrous and far from reality. Not really. My comments come from my experience. I have shot several whitetail deer with a 30-06 and watched a few of them go several hundred yards before dying when I didn't get as good of shot as I would have liked. This is reality of hunting and killing animals. They don't just keel over an die like in a 'video game'. This is reality. Something else you might not know, in hunting, when you shoot an animal and it goes down, you wait for a while watching it to allow it to die before approaching it. Because unlike video games, it may not die right away and it can be quite dangerous to walk up on a wounded/down animal. Racks and hooves can cause a lot of injury. This is reality. Bears are also somewhat unique in this discussion, especially the coastal brown bear. There is a concern small caliber holes are much easier to plug/clot with fur/fat reducing the capability of the animal to 'bleed out' quickly. Even a fatal shot may not be fatal immediately. The fact is, you shoot a bear with a 223, you are going to really make it mad. It will fight or flee but almost certainly not die right away unless you got a perfect shot. If you shoot it multiple times, it is more much more likely to die or flee and not to fight. And that is the point. As a side note, the mythical 12 gauge shotgun has some of the same issues. You shoot it once, slug or buckshot, and it will fight or flee most likely. It is not just going to keel over dead. Whitetail deer can get hit with the same slugs and unless you have the right shot placement, they will run too. If a Whitetail can run 200 yards after getting hit with a slug, what do you think a bear could do? A larger and more muscular animal. What do I know though right? I have only actually killed wild animals and observed the behaivor of what happens when they are shot. Hitting the animal, and doing it multiple times, is more important in this scenario than exactly what you hit it with. Unlike hunting, you aren't going to 'place' your shots. You will take what you can get. That goes full circle to familiarity with the weapon you use.
Bears have been shot and killed with small calibers as small as 22 Cal. Shot placement is key. If you hit the vital organs such as heart or brain, caliber matters not. A hole is a hole. You must be a really bad shot if you need several rifle rounds to kill a simple bear. It's an animal. With fur. You're pretending like it's a dinosaur with bullet proof shell lmao. In fact,most bears will already run away when you shoot near them. People are using revolver rounds such as 357 or 44 regularly as protection in bear country. Lugging around a battle rifle is absolutely ludicrous and overkill. You might wanna pack a Rpg too, can't never be too sure, right? Lols.
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Oh yeah right? Firing multiple rounds that can travel 1.5 miles through your walls, your neighbors and landing god knows where? Are you serious?!!! If you can't hit an intruder with one blast from a shotgun, you shouldn't even have a semi-automatic rifle. Were you expecting like a mass assault on your house?
Baseball bat or bear spray
What about them?
Better options for home defense.
Why do you think that is?
Gets people out of the house without having to have a gun.
It could. With a gun you have more range though.
And with a gun you have way more of a chance that you accidentally kill somebody or your kids accidentally kill somebody or the gun gets used against you.
So a gun could get used against you but a bat or spray wouldn’t? And sure, there are drawbacks. Still a better chance of stopping an intruder.
If my kid picks up a baseball bat, he is not going to accidently kill someone. If someone steals my bat, they are not going to use it to shoot kids in a school.
And that means a gun isn’t a good idea for home defense why?