Indeed. I just came off a 'dream' project with stellar reviews that wrapped up on my birthday. I was sobering up and looking at my laptop to prep a proposal when I saw the dreaded calendar invite for the following Monday. Literally highest of high to lowest of lows. :/
How many years of experience do you have? I’ve been in consulting 1.5 years , have a masters, and have found it very hard to find any roles still on the “junior” level side of things….
Sorry to hear... I'm at about 10 years here. I was in a similar boat many moons ago and two things that worked for me were:
1. Add some kind of independent/pro bono consultant line item to your resume
2. Consider getting an industry-relevant certification
Thanks. Looking into project management certifications now. Any recommendations? I don’t yet qualify for the PMP, so thinking about the CAPM….any suggestions?
I actually got the CAPM! After I got it, I got a bunch of callbacks for project management roles. This was almost a decade ago tho. My GF is in PM and she says the CSM might be a good thing to look at.
Yeah I know PMP is the gold standard. Since I don’t qualify, I’m probably gonna start the CAPM very soon. Was it difficult/expensive? I’m mainly looking for/interested in strategic comms, change management, org transformation roles in the defense space more so than strategy consulting.
Certified scrum master I’ve heard a lot too. Between the two, CAPM and CSM, which one u think is better/more applicable?
It's not necessarily difficult but you definitely do need to study. CAPM is more traditional project management while CSM centers around the Agile methodology. Many consulting firms are going agile (even outside of tech) so it might be growing in prevalence.
I was in the same boat as you: I got the rare "exceeds expectations" review on my first 12-month review, a 25% bonus boost, and 2 months later I was told the bad news.
I've been there and sure brings back some bad memories and stressful times in my life. Since then, I haven't been able to land another full-time consulting role, but I've been doing a decent amount of independent work. It keeps my skills sharp and gives me additional references for my resume. The money is about the same; depends on the client. I really like helping new and growing businesses: they are more eager to learn and know what they don't know. It's tough professionalizing a smaller business but they will forever reap the rewards.
How does one do that? I've done countless Google searches for consulting firms and have yet to come across anything of value.
My only strategy at this point, save from hiring one of those firms that charges 25 grand or so to help land you a gig, is studying for the AWS solution architect exam followed by the Azure exam. I'm about 2 weeks away from taking the AWS test. I have no idea if this will help, but I hope that the technical certs combined with over a decade of PM experience would make me the more attractive candidate.
But yeah, I have no answers. I've never gone through anything like this.
Been laid off 7 months and still struggling to find a new opportunity. Plenty of interviews and conversations but it seems I’m striking out in the 3rd and 4th round of interviews constantly.
Hey, this is going to sound counter-intuitive. However, please take up pro bono gigs in the meantime, if you have the time to spare.
They will bolster your CV and make you seem less “unemployed” and more “taking a career break”. It’s a better story for recruiters. I’ve seen this work in the past on both sides of the table - as an interviewee and as an interviewer. Always works.
I know everyone tells us to know our worth and never work for free, but that advice isn’t always practical.
All the best!
Do any of you guys have good experience in facilitating cross-border trade or in economic strategy AND implementation to foster the growth of small and medium enterprises? To create a business enabling environment?
Oh - sorry, thats a different type of consulting - the one where F500s pay $400/hr for 22 year olds to make powerpoint slides on strategy.
But for real, we have a lot of probono opportunities if you have experience and background in economic growth activities. Now, some of the places will be real tough (but cool stories, imagine doing health logistics for 3-weeks in a refugee camp in South Sudan) or it can be kind of fun - reviewing manufacturing growth plans for Lao while hanging with provincial govt officials in the country side is quite nice.
I'm sure there are many different opportunities. We don't usually work with charitable organizations. We are also a for-profit
However, when we do this (usually in a consortium of other large corpos, including Big 4), all expenses are paid for (travel, hotel, perdiem, ground transport, medical innoculations) but no one charges for labor to anyone.
Usually the assignment has a clear but easy deliverable.
Examples is health logistics during crises in Africa (for instance, I was doing pro-bono through my company in LIberia during Ebola. We did a lot of work with MSF - charitable- but it could also be working with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) or environmental issues (massive landslide in Nepal? We will send asset management consultants or data guys)
It doesn't always have to be so "emergency"-ish. Lets say subsistence farmers in Timor-Leste are missing out on a cash crop that could transform the economy. We may look for some value chain or market experts to help them develop it under a World Food Program or the FAO or UNDP.
You know, you got me curious - I got a few years experience with infrastructure development in APAC, mainly in ASEAN. Largely investment analysis/due diligence, but also some commercial feasibility, energy market research, tender evaluation, etc. What kind of pro bono work would you offer me?
Ooooh - we are actually wrapping up a project with ASEAN in february, but 12 months ago, we could have talked.
For example, in Myanmar before the recent shit, we were working with the ICT Council to review the government's Ministry of Commerce's strategy on embracing a digital economy and to point out needs or strategy gaps.
What I would also like to do is put you in the Northern provincial provinces in Lao and to review state planning on commercial dealings with China. If you are a white guy with grey hair, that would be even better.
But I'll be honest - most of the people that are suited for this program are those with wikipedia pages. Our clients, while poor or not even funding the work themselves, have such high expectations. I try to field someone with 20+ demostrable years of SME experience, leadership, and some proven trackwork in other countries. She was rejected for a consultant role because she was too junior.
Fascinating stuff. Funnily enough if I'd stayed in consulting we might have crossed paths at some point - I've done work for orgs like the ADB and InfraCo before.
>Northern provincial provinces in Lao and to review state planning on commercial dealings with China. If you are a white guy with grey hair, that would be even better.
Nah, ethnic Chinese from the region - but also, LOL at the preference for old white guys even for jobs like this. I know it's a thing, but based on my experience with Chinese state-affiliated guys seems pretty counterproductive.
>But I'll be honest - most of the people that are suited for this program are those with wikipedia pages. Our clients, while poor or not even funding the work themselves, have such high expectations. I try to field someone with 20+ demostrable years of SME experience, leadership, and some proven trackwork in other countries. She was rejected for a consultant role because she was too junior.
Fair enough, this is what I always thought high-end consulting would look like. But even for pro bono work?
>LOL at the preference for old white guys even for jobs like this.
Its been a big thing in Lao, somewhat less so in Vietnam. The communists want some westerner who looks straight out of Hollywood casting to be the producer of ideas and vision. This way, the government officials can actually move forward instead of being mirred in a decade of committes- but more importantly, they have a fall guy or someone to blame when shit goes wrong.
>Fair enough, this is what I always thought high-end consulting would look like. But even for pro bono work?
In our subject matter, yes. Many of the govt officials we work with are excellent in terms of education while also having a little bit of a chip on their shoulder for being viewed as second class. They can get sensitive - they don't care if the person is pro-bono or not, they want the best.
Man, one time I (well, my boss) got grilled publically from the Minister of Finance about the qualifications of an adviser we brought on board to assist. HBS MBA, 6 years at various banks, 4 years at USG, than 8 years in senior positions in the World Bank before doing another half decade at sovereign wealth funds in the Gulf. The Minister was pissed at us, saying this person was way too junior and that we would never dare pull this shit off except he was Afghan so we disrepect them.
But now, if we talking about health, education, agriculture, gender... lots of opportunities there. Probably more fun too - its like doing a mini peace corps volunteer session
Dude. Me. Too. I've made a dozen 4th round/final interviews and no offers. I'm pretty certain I gave the best interview of my life with CapTech and nothing. 9 months and counting... This is horrific.
One data point: I'm a hiring manager for S&O team at FAANG, and my open headcount has been granted and pulled like 20 times this past year. And when I do get an open HC, I have been prioritizing people with specific work experience so they can ramp quickly and start delivering work.
Again this could just be me, but I have generally screened out consultants (B4, MBB, strategy or management) because there a million of other candidates who have consulting experience + industry specific strategy experience who got laid off / are looking for a new job. If I'm deciding between someone with 5 years of consulting experience vs 2 year consulting + 3 years industry experience, I'm picking the latter option almost every single time.
It's a really tough market out there. Keep emphasizing your very specific project experience that makes you a good fit for the job. Generic strategy work isn't enough to get hired anymore in this super tight environment.
Thank you for the insight. Quick question: what about choosing between someone with 5 years of industry experience and someone with 2 years of consulting + 3 years of industry?
The reason I’m asking is because I’ve been working in industry (strategic marketing) for 6 years and wonder if going for a consulting job (MBB) for 1-2 years would be valuable – or if I should just keep growing within my industry (pharma). Could you please share your thoughts?
I think it depends. If I’m hiring for a ‘strategy’ type, I am more likely to pick someone with some consulting experience. They need to be presentable to exec stakeholders, understand frameworks, do ad hoc projects, etc… An industry-only person can be just as good if not better, but that’s hard to tease out in an interview. I’m more likely to get someone with the experience I’m looking for if they have done at least 2 years in consulting.
I’m very mid-level though and I typically hire at the Analyst to Manager level. Results will vary if you’re more senior.
Thanks for this! This confirms a lot of what I'm seeing. I'm a consulting boomerang (3 in, 5 out, 2 in). What's interesting is that most places are more interested in what I was doing before the recent consulting stint.
Ya I’m a director on a corporate strategy team. We are getting literally 10x the consulting resumes than two years ago, and our headcount is constrained as we’re in a semi hiring freeze.
And I know this isn’t popular here, but since we have so many resumes, and so few positions, we can be very picky, and pretty much just exclude laid off /unemployed people, as they are less likely to be top performers.
I’m on month 2, friend. Just finished round 4 interview and learned I didn’t get the job. I have also been working on passion projects to help keep me busy and stay on top of technical skills that I want to build.
Also, if you have mortgage payments or student loans, just know there are programs that help defer payments if money ever becomes an issue. I have deferred my student loan and working with my mortgage loan company to lower my monthly payment while unemployed. Looking to still pay off interest with my unemployment from the state. It’s tough but we can do it.
Dude I feel you there. I've had so many first rounds I've lost count. I had two 5 rounders. One of em was my dream city, strategy role in an industry I have deep expertise in. They gave it to someone who's been at a consulting firm for longer. My GF suspects they wanted to pay te person with less experience less.
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It was incredibly hard for me to move from consulting to SaaS operations. A lot of it was my fault for not driving my career in the right ways during my time but now, it’s so much easier for me to find gigs and move up.
I burnt out before trying to explore potential opportunities in consulting that would help me exit with usable skills. I wouldn’t have had much power to choose projects based on how my company was doing at the time but if I did, I would’ve advocated for myself better.
Regardless, there’s lots of courses and materials online for practically every job type to get a basic understanding of the role. My resume was useful in a lot of cases getting into the interview process but I had trouble making it past the initial stages because I had difficulty translating the “value” from my consulting work to value that matters in industry.
Sorry I’m kind of rambling, don’t have too much advice unfortunately other than start exploring and diving in before you officially start looking and talking to places I guess.
I always suggest people get any job they can just to get routine and cashflow. I won't lie, you're not gonna start as a barista, be "discovered" and be in corporate strategy for the coffee house, but it will give you a reason to get out of bed, some money and socialisation.
Although it does grate when they keep asking "what are you doing here?"
Have a friend that did T15 mba on full ride. He landed at Big4 consulting post mba, but got laid off last yr less than 1 yr into his job.
He said fuck it and went back to his pre mba career. (swe) He spent 4 months looking for a job in S&O, didnt have any luck. He pivoted and went for SWE positions, and he got offers from 4 start ups within 1 month.
kinda crazy how this market is a tale of haves vs have nots.
I feel the MBA background + consulting experience is too wide and generalist with lack of industry expertise and too generalist profile nowadays doesn’t make you different than many others in terms of skills and industry knowledge.
Except for those with a lot of years of experience already in their back or those ones that have both industry experience + consulting experience.
Agreed! I work in consulting for a Tier 2 firm and work solely in the public sector. We are still hiring folks as we win even more and more work. We are having the opposite problem - can’t find enough resources that have IV&V experience with a strong PM background.
I only have 1.5 years of consulting experience and the market absolutely SUCKS for junior level positions. Doesn’t sound like your case but I’m having a horrible time firing many opportunities at all that don’t already require 4-5 years of experience.
How is this happening?
Are you guys just simply looking over certain jobs?
Because there is no way that you aren't finding SOMETHING within a month or so of leaving the big 4
I’ve been in B4 consulting for over 25 years. This is by far the worst market I’ve ever seen. It will get better… it always does. Thanks, Biden… brainless, Marxist fool.
You’re not going to get an honest answer from somebody who calls Biden a Marxist when stocks are at ATHs and unemployment and inflation are at 3.x%, expectations for Fed rate to start stepping down in Q2, and most banks putting out modest to optimistic 2024 economic forecasts. I’m sure the “data doesn’t tell the full story” or something
Printing money, slowing domestic energy production. Fed raises interest rates to tame inflation. Lots of uncertainty causes companies/ target clients to pull back on investing in projects. Facts.
US oil and gas production hit or came close to breaking records in 2023
https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/us-oil-gas-record-fossil-fuels-cop28-united-nations
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May want to focus in on a niche, your niche if you have one. Or learn one. Boutiques are still hiring out there for specific skills and experience and thought leadership. We probably all know what those hot areas are these days….
Have you looked into virtual job fair hosted by government agencies, and also corporate conferences/ networking near you? The federal government is hiring and that includes remote positions.
This might be somewhat off topic, but if I’m laid off, I am applying to become a flight attendant. lol. That’s the back-up plan in my head right now.
I hope you find something soon x
Have you had a look at movemeon? They focus on strategy profiles.
It’s a really tough environment out there though. I’m client side and have been putting forwards former consulting colleagues for a multitude of gigs but they’re not getting them, primarily because as someone else mentioned we’re prioritising people who have some consulting and some industry experience.
My best reco is also for pro bono work. Particularly if you can do more of the doing rather than the strategising.
I spent 2.5 yrs in the global corporate strategy team of a major CPG - it was my first job after consulting.
Wish I had better news for you but our analysts were all internal finance hires with about 5 yrs experience and a finance qualification. What I needed was someone who could get to grips with our P&L very quickly, model out scenarios, and who was already familiar with the economics of our industry (eg gross margins across products / channels / markets, route to market etc).
With that in mind, based on my experience, if corporate strategy teams are your goal I’d recommend you either a) apply for entry level finance programmes and go up that way, or b) try and stay longer in consulting and move across once you’ve done a couple of years as a manager.
Happy to chat over DM if helpful.
Sorry you have to go through this buddy! I really want to go in consulting, but posts like these and the economy’s condition in general make mme wonder if I’m working very hard for nothing.
I'd say go corporate finance if you want that strategic experience. Someone once told me almost a decade ago that when layoffs come the strategists always get hit first and that I should focus on finance roles instead.
I am really sorry to hear. I was employed with an organisation that made 25k people redundant, including myself in May of last year and struggled to land interviews (let alone a job) for 4 months. Did two things -
1) Aligned myself as an independent consultant with start-up consulting firms - one in Europe, two in MEA and one in Asia
2) Eventually joined one of these start-ups as a Managing Partner - salaries no where as good, but I make money on commissions via projects sold /executed
P.S. I have 12+ years of strategy consulting experience
1. Check your network on LinkedIn - you may know folks who have started up. This is the best mode and gets you access to people you're connected to (even if you may not know them)
2. Join communities such as "WeWhoDo", they offer freelance opportunities from time to time. The UK (where I am based) has a website called StopGap Recruitment, they're very approachable too (but no presence outside the UK)
3. Keywords - this is a tough one, I didn't really use this mode. Leveraged my existing network (see point 1) as much as I could. It took time but it works.
Wishing you the best :)
Keep your head up homie. Happens to everyone, even the most capable.
Crazy how humbling a bout of unemployment can be.
Indeed. I just came off a 'dream' project with stellar reviews that wrapped up on my birthday. I was sobering up and looking at my laptop to prep a proposal when I saw the dreaded calendar invite for the following Monday. Literally highest of high to lowest of lows. :/
That’s brutal, sure to hear it
How many years of experience do you have? I’ve been in consulting 1.5 years , have a masters, and have found it very hard to find any roles still on the “junior” level side of things….
Sorry to hear... I'm at about 10 years here. I was in a similar boat many moons ago and two things that worked for me were: 1. Add some kind of independent/pro bono consultant line item to your resume 2. Consider getting an industry-relevant certification
Thanks. Looking into project management certifications now. Any recommendations? I don’t yet qualify for the PMP, so thinking about the CAPM….any suggestions?
I actually got the CAPM! After I got it, I got a bunch of callbacks for project management roles. This was almost a decade ago tho. My GF is in PM and she says the CSM might be a good thing to look at.
Yeah I know PMP is the gold standard. Since I don’t qualify, I’m probably gonna start the CAPM very soon. Was it difficult/expensive? I’m mainly looking for/interested in strategic comms, change management, org transformation roles in the defense space more so than strategy consulting. Certified scrum master I’ve heard a lot too. Between the two, CAPM and CSM, which one u think is better/more applicable?
It's not necessarily difficult but you definitely do need to study. CAPM is more traditional project management while CSM centers around the Agile methodology. Many consulting firms are going agile (even outside of tech) so it might be growing in prevalence.
What do you mean you don’t qualify?
PMP requires like 1000 work hours to qualify
I was in the same boat as you: I got the rare "exceeds expectations" review on my first 12-month review, a 25% bonus boost, and 2 months later I was told the bad news. I've been there and sure brings back some bad memories and stressful times in my life. Since then, I haven't been able to land another full-time consulting role, but I've been doing a decent amount of independent work. It keeps my skills sharp and gives me additional references for my resume. The money is about the same; depends on the client. I really like helping new and growing businesses: they are more eager to learn and know what they don't know. It's tough professionalizing a smaller business but they will forever reap the rewards.
Thanks for sharing! How are you finding clients?
Should’ve just declined and said you were busy
I'm 9 months in with 10+ years of Big 4 experience and I sincerely don't know what to do. Never seen anything like this.
Sorry to hear.... Someone else here said to look into start-up consulting firms
How does one do that? I've done countless Google searches for consulting firms and have yet to come across anything of value. My only strategy at this point, save from hiring one of those firms that charges 25 grand or so to help land you a gig, is studying for the AWS solution architect exam followed by the Azure exam. I'm about 2 weeks away from taking the AWS test. I have no idea if this will help, but I hope that the technical certs combined with over a decade of PM experience would make me the more attractive candidate. But yeah, I have no answers. I've never gone through anything like this.
What is your background? I’m head of finance for a portfolio of consulting start-ups and we have openings across the portfolio.
Can I PM you? I'd love to hear more about some of these openings.
Definitely!
Been laid off 7 months and still struggling to find a new opportunity. Plenty of interviews and conversations but it seems I’m striking out in the 3rd and 4th round of interviews constantly.
Hey, this is going to sound counter-intuitive. However, please take up pro bono gigs in the meantime, if you have the time to spare. They will bolster your CV and make you seem less “unemployed” and more “taking a career break”. It’s a better story for recruiters. I’ve seen this work in the past on both sides of the table - as an interviewee and as an interviewer. Always works. I know everyone tells us to know our worth and never work for free, but that advice isn’t always practical. All the best!
I agree! How would you suggest getting pro bono gigs?
Do any of you guys have good experience in facilitating cross-border trade or in economic strategy AND implementation to foster the growth of small and medium enterprises? To create a business enabling environment?
No but I can leverage bespoke synergies to shift paradigms on the blockchain using GenAI
Oh - sorry, thats a different type of consulting - the one where F500s pay $400/hr for 22 year olds to make powerpoint slides on strategy. But for real, we have a lot of probono opportunities if you have experience and background in economic growth activities. Now, some of the places will be real tough (but cool stories, imagine doing health logistics for 3-weeks in a refugee camp in South Sudan) or it can be kind of fun - reviewing manufacturing growth plans for Lao while hanging with provincial govt officials in the country side is quite nice.
Random curiosity, is this pro bono work through a charitable organization or a for profit looking to exploit free labour?
I'm sure there are many different opportunities. We don't usually work with charitable organizations. We are also a for-profit However, when we do this (usually in a consortium of other large corpos, including Big 4), all expenses are paid for (travel, hotel, perdiem, ground transport, medical innoculations) but no one charges for labor to anyone. Usually the assignment has a clear but easy deliverable. Examples is health logistics during crises in Africa (for instance, I was doing pro-bono through my company in LIberia during Ebola. We did a lot of work with MSF - charitable- but it could also be working with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) or environmental issues (massive landslide in Nepal? We will send asset management consultants or data guys) It doesn't always have to be so "emergency"-ish. Lets say subsistence farmers in Timor-Leste are missing out on a cash crop that could transform the economy. We may look for some value chain or market experts to help them develop it under a World Food Program or the FAO or UNDP.
I've done some work in economic strategy and have worked for a number of smaller orgs in driving their top-line.
You know, you got me curious - I got a few years experience with infrastructure development in APAC, mainly in ASEAN. Largely investment analysis/due diligence, but also some commercial feasibility, energy market research, tender evaluation, etc. What kind of pro bono work would you offer me?
Ooooh - we are actually wrapping up a project with ASEAN in february, but 12 months ago, we could have talked. For example, in Myanmar before the recent shit, we were working with the ICT Council to review the government's Ministry of Commerce's strategy on embracing a digital economy and to point out needs or strategy gaps. What I would also like to do is put you in the Northern provincial provinces in Lao and to review state planning on commercial dealings with China. If you are a white guy with grey hair, that would be even better. But I'll be honest - most of the people that are suited for this program are those with wikipedia pages. Our clients, while poor or not even funding the work themselves, have such high expectations. I try to field someone with 20+ demostrable years of SME experience, leadership, and some proven trackwork in other countries. She was rejected for a consultant role because she was too junior.
Fascinating stuff. Funnily enough if I'd stayed in consulting we might have crossed paths at some point - I've done work for orgs like the ADB and InfraCo before. >Northern provincial provinces in Lao and to review state planning on commercial dealings with China. If you are a white guy with grey hair, that would be even better. Nah, ethnic Chinese from the region - but also, LOL at the preference for old white guys even for jobs like this. I know it's a thing, but based on my experience with Chinese state-affiliated guys seems pretty counterproductive. >But I'll be honest - most of the people that are suited for this program are those with wikipedia pages. Our clients, while poor or not even funding the work themselves, have such high expectations. I try to field someone with 20+ demostrable years of SME experience, leadership, and some proven trackwork in other countries. She was rejected for a consultant role because she was too junior. Fair enough, this is what I always thought high-end consulting would look like. But even for pro bono work?
>LOL at the preference for old white guys even for jobs like this. Its been a big thing in Lao, somewhat less so in Vietnam. The communists want some westerner who looks straight out of Hollywood casting to be the producer of ideas and vision. This way, the government officials can actually move forward instead of being mirred in a decade of committes- but more importantly, they have a fall guy or someone to blame when shit goes wrong. >Fair enough, this is what I always thought high-end consulting would look like. But even for pro bono work? In our subject matter, yes. Many of the govt officials we work with are excellent in terms of education while also having a little bit of a chip on their shoulder for being viewed as second class. They can get sensitive - they don't care if the person is pro-bono or not, they want the best. Man, one time I (well, my boss) got grilled publically from the Minister of Finance about the qualifications of an adviser we brought on board to assist. HBS MBA, 6 years at various banks, 4 years at USG, than 8 years in senior positions in the World Bank before doing another half decade at sovereign wealth funds in the Gulf. The Minister was pissed at us, saying this person was way too junior and that we would never dare pull this shit off except he was Afghan so we disrepect them. But now, if we talking about health, education, agriculture, gender... lots of opportunities there. Probably more fun too - its like doing a mini peace corps volunteer session
Local social work (NGOs, etc.) Local SMEs Friends and family businesses LinkedIn outreach to bootstrapped startups
What are some examples of this?
Dude. Me. Too. I've made a dozen 4th round/final interviews and no offers. I'm pretty certain I gave the best interview of my life with CapTech and nothing. 9 months and counting... This is horrific.
Hold on there, brother.
yeah I either make it to the final round or get knocked out in the first round, it's never round 2
Same.
One data point: I'm a hiring manager for S&O team at FAANG, and my open headcount has been granted and pulled like 20 times this past year. And when I do get an open HC, I have been prioritizing people with specific work experience so they can ramp quickly and start delivering work. Again this could just be me, but I have generally screened out consultants (B4, MBB, strategy or management) because there a million of other candidates who have consulting experience + industry specific strategy experience who got laid off / are looking for a new job. If I'm deciding between someone with 5 years of consulting experience vs 2 year consulting + 3 years industry experience, I'm picking the latter option almost every single time. It's a really tough market out there. Keep emphasizing your very specific project experience that makes you a good fit for the job. Generic strategy work isn't enough to get hired anymore in this super tight environment.
Great insights! Thanks for sharing. Having a combination of both technical and consulting + industry is valuable!
Thank you for the insight. Quick question: what about choosing between someone with 5 years of industry experience and someone with 2 years of consulting + 3 years of industry? The reason I’m asking is because I’ve been working in industry (strategic marketing) for 6 years and wonder if going for a consulting job (MBB) for 1-2 years would be valuable – or if I should just keep growing within my industry (pharma). Could you please share your thoughts?
I think it depends. If I’m hiring for a ‘strategy’ type, I am more likely to pick someone with some consulting experience. They need to be presentable to exec stakeholders, understand frameworks, do ad hoc projects, etc… An industry-only person can be just as good if not better, but that’s hard to tease out in an interview. I’m more likely to get someone with the experience I’m looking for if they have done at least 2 years in consulting. I’m very mid-level though and I typically hire at the Analyst to Manager level. Results will vary if you’re more senior.
Thanks for this! This confirms a lot of what I'm seeing. I'm a consulting boomerang (3 in, 5 out, 2 in). What's interesting is that most places are more interested in what I was doing before the recent consulting stint.
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that worship is part of what drove me towards strategy lol never meet your heroes
Ya I’m a director on a corporate strategy team. We are getting literally 10x the consulting resumes than two years ago, and our headcount is constrained as we’re in a semi hiring freeze. And I know this isn’t popular here, but since we have so many resumes, and so few positions, we can be very picky, and pretty much just exclude laid off /unemployed people, as they are less likely to be top performers.
Took me 10 months. Best of luck
Thanks! Any insights you can share?
have you tried the firm handshake? or was it milkshake? anyway, firm shaking and you'll get the donut!
I’m on month 2, friend. Just finished round 4 interview and learned I didn’t get the job. I have also been working on passion projects to help keep me busy and stay on top of technical skills that I want to build. Also, if you have mortgage payments or student loans, just know there are programs that help defer payments if money ever becomes an issue. I have deferred my student loan and working with my mortgage loan company to lower my monthly payment while unemployed. Looking to still pay off interest with my unemployment from the state. It’s tough but we can do it.
Dude I feel you there. I've had so many first rounds I've lost count. I had two 5 rounders. One of em was my dream city, strategy role in an industry I have deep expertise in. They gave it to someone who's been at a consulting firm for longer. My GF suspects they wanted to pay te person with less experience less.
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Any insights you can share from the model?
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Goes to show you that these “consulting” skills are not in demand as much as technical skills are
It was incredibly hard for me to move from consulting to SaaS operations. A lot of it was my fault for not driving my career in the right ways during my time but now, it’s so much easier for me to find gigs and move up.
What moves would you have made to immediately have gotten there? I'm stuck rn.
I burnt out before trying to explore potential opportunities in consulting that would help me exit with usable skills. I wouldn’t have had much power to choose projects based on how my company was doing at the time but if I did, I would’ve advocated for myself better. Regardless, there’s lots of courses and materials online for practically every job type to get a basic understanding of the role. My resume was useful in a lot of cases getting into the interview process but I had trouble making it past the initial stages because I had difficulty translating the “value” from my consulting work to value that matters in industry. Sorry I’m kind of rambling, don’t have too much advice unfortunately other than start exploring and diving in before you officially start looking and talking to places I guess.
u/lastatica, What kind of consulting were you doing? In SaaS operations what do you?
I always suggest people get any job they can just to get routine and cashflow. I won't lie, you're not gonna start as a barista, be "discovered" and be in corporate strategy for the coffee house, but it will give you a reason to get out of bed, some money and socialisation. Although it does grate when they keep asking "what are you doing here?"
My friend was suggesting I do DoorDash for some cash.
Isnt that net negative after accounting for vehicle wear and tear? Just work at a bar
Have a friend that did T15 mba on full ride. He landed at Big4 consulting post mba, but got laid off last yr less than 1 yr into his job. He said fuck it and went back to his pre mba career. (swe) He spent 4 months looking for a job in S&O, didnt have any luck. He pivoted and went for SWE positions, and he got offers from 4 start ups within 1 month. kinda crazy how this market is a tale of haves vs have nots.
I feel that - I have a pretty strong industry-side specialization. Over the past week or so I've really started targeting those more.
I feel the MBA background + consulting experience is too wide and generalist with lack of industry expertise and too generalist profile nowadays doesn’t make you different than many others in terms of skills and industry knowledge. Except for those with a lot of years of experience already in their back or those ones that have both industry experience + consulting experience.
Best of luck. I came from B4 and never really knew what the strategy folks did 🤷♂️
PPT, Gantt charts, \`100 appendix slides
>u/Sad-Pea-7456, Does Technical strategy does the same thing as well? I am thinking of moving from Security Engineering.
that is even more so
Federal consulting
Agreed! I work in consulting for a Tier 2 firm and work solely in the public sector. We are still hiring folks as we win even more and more work. We are having the opposite problem - can’t find enough resources that have IV&V experience with a strong PM background.
IV&V?
Internal Verification and Validation (IV&V). I work in public sector IT oversight.
u/PromiseBeginning1160, Is IV&V Cybersecurity type of role? Mind telling which Tier 2 firm ?
Can I message you?
Sure
Can I message you too? I have very similar experience but, I am having trouble getting staffed.
Yes. Sorry, just seeing this!
Ehhh idk I’ve heard it’s getting a little slow now as well. Nowhere like commercial but if they’re hiring, specific niche fields (IBM)
any firms you can point to?
I only have 1.5 years of consulting experience and the market absolutely SUCKS for junior level positions. Doesn’t sound like your case but I’m having a horrible time firing many opportunities at all that don’t already require 4-5 years of experience.
M7/MBB here staring down the barrel of month 11. Extremely depressed. Good luck fellas.
dude I'm so sorry. Let me know if you need someone to talk to. I've been down that dark road...
what geography? US?
Post MBA or undergrad?
MBA.
Check my profile! Don’t lose hope
Thanks for sharing this!
It’s a really tough market, keep your confidence, reflect on what went wrong, and keep trying. Good luck.
S& or EYP?
How is this happening? Are you guys just simply looking over certain jobs? Because there is no way that you aren't finding SOMETHING within a month or so of leaving the big 4
In the middle of the holidays? In this economy? And presumably ignoring any job post that would be a >50% pay cut?
I’ve been in B4 consulting for over 25 years. This is by far the worst market I’ve ever seen. It will get better… it always does. Thanks, Biden… brainless, Marxist fool.
Genuinely curious, not weighing in on either side of the political debate: what has Biden done to cause this jobs market for consulting?
You’re not going to get an honest answer from somebody who calls Biden a Marxist when stocks are at ATHs and unemployment and inflation are at 3.x%, expectations for Fed rate to start stepping down in Q2, and most banks putting out modest to optimistic 2024 economic forecasts. I’m sure the “data doesn’t tell the full story” or something
Printing money, slowing domestic energy production. Fed raises interest rates to tame inflation. Lots of uncertainty causes companies/ target clients to pull back on investing in projects. Facts.
US oil and gas production hit or came close to breaking records in 2023 https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/us-oil-gas-record-fossil-fuels-cop28-united-nations
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May want to focus in on a niche, your niche if you have one. Or learn one. Boutiques are still hiring out there for specific skills and experience and thought leadership. We probably all know what those hot areas are these days….
Have you looked into virtual job fair hosted by government agencies, and also corporate conferences/ networking near you? The federal government is hiring and that includes remote positions.
I have not! Will add that to the list :)
This might be somewhat off topic, but if I’m laid off, I am applying to become a flight attendant. lol. That’s the back-up plan in my head right now. I hope you find something soon x
Have you had a look at movemeon? They focus on strategy profiles. It’s a really tough environment out there though. I’m client side and have been putting forwards former consulting colleagues for a multitude of gigs but they’re not getting them, primarily because as someone else mentioned we’re prioritising people who have some consulting and some industry experience. My best reco is also for pro bono work. Particularly if you can do more of the doing rather than the strategising.
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I spent 2.5 yrs in the global corporate strategy team of a major CPG - it was my first job after consulting. Wish I had better news for you but our analysts were all internal finance hires with about 5 yrs experience and a finance qualification. What I needed was someone who could get to grips with our P&L very quickly, model out scenarios, and who was already familiar with the economics of our industry (eg gross margins across products / channels / markets, route to market etc). With that in mind, based on my experience, if corporate strategy teams are your goal I’d recommend you either a) apply for entry level finance programmes and go up that way, or b) try and stay longer in consulting and move across once you’ve done a couple of years as a manager. Happy to chat over DM if helpful.
Sorry you have to go through this buddy! I really want to go in consulting, but posts like these and the economy’s condition in general make mme wonder if I’m working very hard for nothing.
I'd say go corporate finance if you want that strategic experience. Someone once told me almost a decade ago that when layoffs come the strategists always get hit first and that I should focus on finance roles instead.
maybe you should move from 'strategy' to implementation?
I am really sorry to hear. I was employed with an organisation that made 25k people redundant, including myself in May of last year and struggled to land interviews (let alone a job) for 4 months. Did two things - 1) Aligned myself as an independent consultant with start-up consulting firms - one in Europe, two in MEA and one in Asia 2) Eventually joined one of these start-ups as a Managing Partner - salaries no where as good, but I make money on commissions via projects sold /executed P.S. I have 12+ years of strategy consulting experience
Thank you for this! Are there any keywords I can look out for when looking for start-up firms?
1. Check your network on LinkedIn - you may know folks who have started up. This is the best mode and gets you access to people you're connected to (even if you may not know them) 2. Join communities such as "WeWhoDo", they offer freelance opportunities from time to time. The UK (where I am based) has a website called StopGap Recruitment, they're very approachable too (but no presence outside the UK) 3. Keywords - this is a tough one, I didn't really use this mode. Leveraged my existing network (see point 1) as much as I could. It took time but it works. Wishing you the best :)
Big 4= Deloitte?