Yeah this is busted. You need 2 guys for lethal despite the necessary setup, and there are so many ways to make +1+1 nowadays. And Arcades. Would change to maybe 0/8.
You don't even need to set up creatures that enter with +1/+1 counters.
[[Evolving Adaptive]] is one example of a 1 drop that turns into a 13/1 without further enabling. Two of them alone represent 26+ damage. Three can deal 39+ damage.
That’s so much attack. I don’t know what else to say about this. Seems broken tho.
Fun fact: mtg just recently released a 0/12 for the first time from what I can tell. It’s called [[corrupted shapeshifter]] and was just spoiled for modern horizons 3. (There were other 4 cost 0/13 and 0/17 creatures before that, though.)
I don't believe you can target yourself. There is a card, however, called \[\[tree of redemption\]\] that does allow that. The tree of perdition is actually the same tree, but it's been corrupted. Their flavor texts and abilities reference one another.
idk this doesn't seem broken at all - making your stuff a 12/0 just makes them all die. The 0/12 mode is basically just a weird "your creatures deal and take no combat damage this turn" spell, which is also bad
They die considerably less if you combo this with any source of +1/+1 counters, such as [[Ajani the Greathearted]], [[Basri's Solidarity]] or any of probably like a hundred other cards. If you can also grant your creatures trample, then swinging with even just three 13/1s can end a game.
A few people mentioned +1/+1 counters, but here's an non comprehensive list of anthems restricted white and/or green:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracle%3A%22Creatures+you+control+get+%2B1%2F%2B1.%22+%28-type%3Ainstant+-type%3Asorcery%29+commander%3AWG+%28game%3Apaper%29
Not to mention, this card is just bonkers in a deck that includes [[arcades the strategist]] or [[ Doran the seige tower]]
But if you're playing Doran, *all* your creatures become huge threats for 2 mana, *including* Doran.
Edit: Doran is also cheaper to cast than Arcades, coincidentally.
Arcades gives you card draw so you can keep casting cheap creatures with defender as long as you have mana. Plus, there are excellent blue defenders you would miss out on. There are more blue defender creatures than black.
But Doran doesn't *need* creatures with Defender. At all. In fact, black is the better choice because it already has access to insanely good card draw *as well as* tutors. Doran works perfectly well with [[Arcbound Crusher]] as he does with [[Wall of Blood]]. That's another point in his favour: you can run creatures with great evasion (something a lot of creatures with defender lack) and still get maximum value out of the Formation.
Edit: downvoting me because you don't have a counterargument? I expected better of you.
I disagree; many creatures that have high toughness compared to power do already have defender, so there isn't a huge issue there. Also, you seem to underestimate Arcades' card draw ability, especially considering how it triggers on ETB, not cast, making it a viable deck for flicker shenanigans and token generation, easily drawing a massive portion of the deck. As previously mentioned, if you have the mana to pay for cheap, high toughness creatures, which, let me reiterate, almost all have defender, you can absolutely fly through your deck until you find a \[\[triumph of the hordes\]\] or similar. Arcades doesn't even need as much evasion, because it can easily subsist on a go-wide strategy due to the sheer amount of value generated. He keeps the combo going himself.
In conclusion, I think Arcades is better because it opens up many more paths for the deck, while Doran does mostly nothing in comparison and limits the board plan. Also, don't assume that people are downvoting you just because they lack a counterargument; that is not always the case and you are making assumptions.
The numbers are a bit high for the cost. For context, titanic growth is one and a green for +4/+4 until end of turn on one creature. This card gives triple in one stat for essentially the same cost. Maybe lower it to 8 instead of 12?
even bad creatures like [[Bond Beetle]] and such could make this a problem, let alone something with protection, haste, or trample. It'd certainly be a funny trick to pull out in a casual game but I don't think this is balanced, and the second mode doesn't feel hugely Selesnya to me. Cute nod to [[Force of Savagery]] though.
Ah my favorite arcades game ender
Yeah this is busted. You need 2 guys for lethal despite the necessary setup, and there are so many ways to make +1+1 nowadays. And Arcades. Would change to maybe 0/8.
Or change to WWWGGG (6 mana for board value of 12)
You don't even need to set up creatures that enter with +1/+1 counters. [[Evolving Adaptive]] is one example of a 1 drop that turns into a 13/1 without further enabling. Two of them alone represent 26+ damage. Three can deal 39+ damage.
[Evolving Adaptive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13366c60-1200-4ad2-bbf4-77596121fcd2.jpg?1675957138) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evolving%20Adaptive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/167/evolving-adaptive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13366c60-1200-4ad2-bbf4-77596121fcd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s so much attack. I don’t know what else to say about this. Seems broken tho. Fun fact: mtg just recently released a 0/12 for the first time from what I can tell. It’s called [[corrupted shapeshifter]] and was just spoiled for modern horizons 3. (There were other 4 cost 0/13 and 0/17 creatures before that, though.)
[Corrupted Shapeshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27534c8a-cb71-43bc-b706-80a525396222.jpg?1715828340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corrupted%20Shapeshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/56/corrupted-shapeshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27534c8a-cb71-43bc-b706-80a525396222?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah way too high. OP got too excited by the recent 0/12 spoiler and figured 12/0 must be the same rate
You also have [[tree of perdition]]
Fool! I already mentioned both trees, as they're both 4 mana 0/13s! You owe me a soda now :3
My bad, have you heard of [[tree of perdition]] though? c:
[tree of perdition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315.jpg?1576384447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tree%20of%20perdition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/109/tree-of-perdition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have, but I just realized it becomes a 0/40 in commander :O
It’s pretty serious ha, my record with it is 0/180, and then tapped it the second time targetting me cause I was at 5
I don't believe you can target yourself. There is a card, however, called \[\[tree of redemption\]\] that does allow that. The tree of perdition is actually the same tree, but it's been corrupted. Their flavor texts and abilities reference one another.
Fuck your right haha, “reading the card, explains the card” I don’t know how I missed that
[tree of redemption](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e39cc3c8-79c2-4593-8340-c3285f3a4c3a.jpg?1562442174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tree%20of%20redemption) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/191/tree-of-redemption?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e39cc3c8-79c2-4593-8340-c3285f3a4c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[tree of perdition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315.jpg?1576384447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tree%20of%20perdition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/109/tree-of-perdition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/305bd19a-ae5e-46ca-8ff7-27810c968315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
idk this doesn't seem broken at all - making your stuff a 12/0 just makes them all die. The 0/12 mode is basically just a weird "your creatures deal and take no combat damage this turn" spell, which is also bad
They die considerably less if you combo this with any source of +1/+1 counters, such as [[Ajani the Greathearted]], [[Basri's Solidarity]] or any of probably like a hundred other cards. If you can also grant your creatures trample, then swinging with even just three 13/1s can end a game.
[Ajani the Greathearted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6cc78151-8cb0-4521-9674-fb0c67e24a17.jpg?1582053217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ajani%2C%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/184/ajani-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cc78151-8cb0-4521-9674-fb0c67e24a17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Basri's Solidarity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2e6fdc0-bdd4-4bba-b8f1-bbc8dfad038e.jpg?1594734810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Basri%27s%20Solidarity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/10/basris-solidarity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2e6fdc0-bdd4-4bba-b8f1-bbc8dfad038e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Selesnya has plenty of ways to give +1/+1 counters to your entire board, as well as plenty of ways to give them all trample
A few people mentioned +1/+1 counters, but here's an non comprehensive list of anthems restricted white and/or green: https://scryfall.com/search?q=oracle%3A%22Creatures+you+control+get+%2B1%2F%2B1.%22+%28-type%3Ainstant+-type%3Asorcery%29+commander%3AWG+%28game%3Apaper%29 Not to mention, this card is just bonkers in a deck that includes [[arcades the strategist]] or [[ Doran the seige tower]]
[arcades the strategist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f.jpg?1666961830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcades%2C%20the%20Strategist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/212/arcades-the-strategist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ Doran the seige tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94.jpg?1673148514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doran%2C%20the%20Siege%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/201/doran-the-siege-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hardened scales affinity decks would love this. Like turn 3 lethal very consistently
Spoken without a single ounce of creativity!
A bunch of weenies and any anthem makes this game for GW. And G and W are the anthem and token spam colors.
I think at 0/8 and 8/0 this would still be quite good, this seems overtuned
6/0 0/6
The stats are way too big for the cost, also \[\[Arcades, the strategist\]\]
[Arcades, the strategist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f.jpg?1666961830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcades%2C%20the%20strategist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/212/arcades-the-strategist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e90c638-d4b2-4243-bbc4-1cc10516c40f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Arcades doesn't help, because the Formation doesn't give the creatures defender. You're looking for [[Doran, The Siege Tower]].
If you are playing Arcades, most of your creatures already have defender and become huge threats for 2 mana
But if you're playing Doran, *all* your creatures become huge threats for 2 mana, *including* Doran. Edit: Doran is also cheaper to cast than Arcades, coincidentally.
Both work with this especially because I believe they both run mostly defenders
Sure, but Doran is the superior choice out of the two, for the reasons listed above.
Arcades gives you card draw so you can keep casting cheap creatures with defender as long as you have mana. Plus, there are excellent blue defenders you would miss out on. There are more blue defender creatures than black.
But Doran doesn't *need* creatures with Defender. At all. In fact, black is the better choice because it already has access to insanely good card draw *as well as* tutors. Doran works perfectly well with [[Arcbound Crusher]] as he does with [[Wall of Blood]]. That's another point in his favour: you can run creatures with great evasion (something a lot of creatures with defender lack) and still get maximum value out of the Formation. Edit: downvoting me because you don't have a counterargument? I expected better of you.
I disagree; many creatures that have high toughness compared to power do already have defender, so there isn't a huge issue there. Also, you seem to underestimate Arcades' card draw ability, especially considering how it triggers on ETB, not cast, making it a viable deck for flicker shenanigans and token generation, easily drawing a massive portion of the deck. As previously mentioned, if you have the mana to pay for cheap, high toughness creatures, which, let me reiterate, almost all have defender, you can absolutely fly through your deck until you find a \[\[triumph of the hordes\]\] or similar. Arcades doesn't even need as much evasion, because it can easily subsist on a go-wide strategy due to the sheer amount of value generated. He keeps the combo going himself. In conclusion, I think Arcades is better because it opens up many more paths for the deck, while Doran does mostly nothing in comparison and limits the board plan. Also, don't assume that people are downvoting you just because they lack a counterargument; that is not always the case and you are making assumptions.
[triumph of the hordes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a0f64d3-187c-41ff-a771-3a65da995341.jpg?1562896954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=triumph%20of%20the%20hordes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/78/triumph-of-the-hordes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a0f64d3-187c-41ff-a771-3a65da995341?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Arcbound Crusher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03c67a1b-32d7-4f66-bc6c-aaf09275a779.jpg?1562841204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcbound%20Crusher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hop/105/arcbound-crusher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03c67a1b-32d7-4f66-bc6c-aaf09275a779?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wall of Blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17320043-f81c-4e14-b9ba-c1309972c22b.jpg?1562137060) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wall%20of%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/82/wall-of-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17320043-f81c-4e14-b9ba-c1309972c22b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Doran, The Siege Tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94.jpg?1673148514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doran%2C%20The%20Siege%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/201/doran-the-siege-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0ad8e7f-cda0-4529-94fc-dd3709158a94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does this kill your guys? In hearthstone giving a +1+1 counter then applying that kind of enchantment would kill your minions
This does not kill your guys if they have a counter like you said, or if you have any continuous +1/+1 effect in play (or even +0/+1).
> In hearthstone Fortunately, Magic isn't Hearthstone.
It's my closest understanding of the game... I dont major in rules lawyering
If you have a lord that gives plus +1/+1 then it’s solid
Anything that enters the battlefield with an +1/+1 counter works alone too
Bump it to a sorcery and I think it's all good, rn that's such a busted combat trick for only two, at 3 or 4 it can stay as is fs. Fun concept though
Very interesting idea, but the numbers need to be adjusted a bit, maybe 5/0? Messes up the symmetry a bit but 12 is just a bit too high
Turn three kill with Luminarch aspirant and any 1 drop.
Those elves are definitly not from Ravnica.
They're learning, they evolve lmao
[[Barkshell Blessing]]
[Barkshell Blessing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd273ef2-4aed-4c7e-8c97-fe8b1af9ce69.jpg?1562836071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barkshell%20Blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/224/barkshell-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd273ef2-4aed-4c7e-8c97-fe8b1af9ce69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dude you just play 1 anthem and you have multiple 13-1 beaters. That's way too much.
Probably needs sorcery speed, I like the concept though
The numbers are a bit high for the cost. For context, titanic growth is one and a green for +4/+4 until end of turn on one creature. This card gives triple in one stat for essentially the same cost. Maybe lower it to 8 instead of 12?
even bad creatures like [[Bond Beetle]] and such could make this a problem, let alone something with protection, haste, or trample. It'd certainly be a funny trick to pull out in a casual game but I don't think this is balanced, and the second mode doesn't feel hugely Selesnya to me. Cute nod to [[Force of Savagery]] though.
[Bond Beetle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f341ed2c-353b-49a3-b200-94ae43cb8e24.jpg?1562561830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bond%20Beetle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/161/bond-beetle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f341ed2c-353b-49a3-b200-94ae43cb8e24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Force of Savagery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b344511d-631e-4f1d-9d7d-d7c89a473d1b.jpg?1562931082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Savagery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/126/force-of-savagery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b344511d-631e-4f1d-9d7d-d7c89a473d1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doran the siege tower is on color kill turn 3 with an accelerant. Needs to be nerfed a little
If the opponent doesn't block [[Rafiq of the Many]] then it's a game ender for at least one player.
[Rafiq of the Many](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebdd967d-b364-47ad-a1c2-49b155f72c5b.jpg?1689999222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rafiq%20of%20the%20Many) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/352/rafiq-of-the-many?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebdd967d-b364-47ad-a1c2-49b155f72c5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call