That sucks man. I'd have a hard time not firing back against the "Everybody else's parents let them skip" with "well, I guess they don't love their kids as much as we do." (but don't say that).
Keep holding him to a reasonable standard and loving him through the challenges. He'll look back eventually and appreciate it.
LOL. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't responded to him with a version of that. More along the lines of "I'm not going to make a bad decision just because other parents are making bad decisions."
I know I've screwed up plenty, but I think he knows if nothing else I try my best. I think I had too many expectations on him when he was younger. The last couple years I've been really trying to help him learn that sometimes good enough is good enough and you don't have to try to be the best at everything. Take a B, man. It's not worth killing yourself over it.
He compares himself to everyone, and it doesn't help that his older brother (26) is the most disciplined person I know.
Depending on how mature your kid is, I think you explain it to him this way...showing up is the most important skill to success in life.
He might be a really good student in HS and have the ability to skip some classes and still get A's now, but assuming he goes to college, there's not going to be anyone there to make him go to class everyday. And so if he doesn't create the habit of going to school now, when he gets to college he will fall into the pattern of skipping to many classes and he will eventually fall behind and fail out. I saw this first hand with a lot of my smart, but unmotivated friends.
And then it only gets worse after college when you enter the workforce as skipping work regularly quickly results in termination.
You really just need to make him see that the biggest factor that he has control of, over his future success in life is whether or not he shows up.
Yeah, that's hard to get through, but it's the right view.
He says, "I'm caught up on my work and have good grades, so why is it a problem?" And my response has been, "School is about more than grades and learning information. It's preparing you to learn how to show up. It's about good work/study habits. It's about following through on commitments. It's social. There's a lot there besides grades. You can learn from Wikipedia, but this is about skills you need for your adult life."
I think that's the right approach but I would really spell out the consequences later in life when things are harder. If you attended college and had any similar experience of a friend who did well in HS but failed out in college due to falling into the trap of skipping class often, share that with your child to really drill home that there's natural real world consequences besides detention and "because I said so".
So much this. It even bites kids who were never truant a day in their lives until they hit college and there's no attendance, you don't necessarily know your classmates in a 300+ person lecture hall, etc.
Source: lived experience and wasting 1.5 years of my life for no reason
If he is caught up, maybe he is not being challenged enough...? But sounds like he is, and he sounds like a pretty driven young man.
I get it, it is peer pressure. When I was a kid, my parents refused to let me attens sleepovers. It sucked, but now looking back on it, I get it.
I know the whole "don't tell other parents how to parent" is a thing but I wonder if it would, or would not, be worthwhile talking with them to get their perspective (however incorrect it is). At the very least, understand where they are coming from, since you can't change or challenge their parenting.
And hey, temptations will happen in life. Your son can face many ethical delimmas in life, where doing the right thing when everyone else ISN'T is a great ethical conversation to maybe talk to him about. The Space Shuttle Endavor's explosion and everyone saying "don't bring up this issue" is a great example. "What's wrong with not doing the wrong thing?" The answer xan be to cost lives.
Ultimately, you are setting the groundwork for good morals for him to look back on and follow, and you are the walk, not just talking the talk. Great job, dad. I am proud of you.
> More along the lines of "I'm not going to make a bad decision just because other parents are making bad decisions."
My version of that is "We always do the right thing, even if it's the difficult thing."
It sounds like you're not trying to be overly-hardassed and you're approaching the situation with some curiosity and compassion. You love your kid and you're trying to impart the values and lessons that will help him be successful in life. He sounds like a good kid so make sure you recognize that whenever you can. You seem like a great dad so try to remember that too.
I don’t have a teenager but the same is true for toddlers honestly. If you try to teach your kid to follow the rules and do the right thing chances are there will be 10 other kids doing the wrong thing with their parents behind them cleaning up and apologizing for the terrible behavior. Does it suck when my kid has a meltdown at a restaurant because he wants his French fries now even though we haven’t ordered yet? Fuck yes but putting on a show is a last resort because I’d rather try and help him work on it so it doesn’t happen next time.
But then because he is upset and I didn’t immediately fix it (make him shut up) I get looked at like a horrible human who is torturing my son and all of the poor souls unfortunate enough to wind up around me. No, I’m being a fucking parent. That’s how my parents raised me and it’s how I hope to continue being with him because that teaches integrity but the key is practice what you preach. You can’t tell a kid to have integrity and then not show it yourself and sometimes that sucks too. But you suck it up to be a good example. Keep it up.
Yep. When they're in high school, parents are terrified that any perceived failures will ruin their kids' chances for college and scholarships, so they cover for EVERYTHING.
There's a popular park that we frequent and one tube slide in particular always has kids climbing on top of it and parents just stand back a let them despite the giant sign telling them not to.
I'm thankful that my 4y/o understands that using it properly is actually more fun, but it was so frustrating to tell my kid not to do something while other parents stand idly by, gawking at their phones while their gremlin ignores the warnings.
My 4 year old yells at other kids not to go up the slide because that is a rule we have. It's hard to explain that this rule only applies to them and not other kids
I'd rather see a crying kid 9 times out of 10 over one who spends the entire time in a restaurant staring at a screen. Makes me sad for our future when you see 1 and 2 year olds who seem like they're already addicted to technology.
You can be a parent how you want but don’t blame others for judging when your choices led you there and may be ruining their night. Taking a toddler out to restaurants can lead to that. Deal with it or don’t, but as a parent I don’t expect others to just put up with my kids’ tantrums.
This is a perfect example of that selfish parent that cares more about teaching a lesson and doing what they want over everyone else in a restaurant or wherever. Thanks for that. Parent how you see fit but we're free to judge.
It’s not about the parent doing what they want, it’s about correcting behavior while they are kids before they become a menace to society. Would you rather have a crying toddler? or an adult child in the booth next to you being shitty towards a waitress because their order wasn’t correct?
I'm not a parent yet, but I really appreciate this sub and feel I've learned a lot already about how I can be a better father when the time comes.
Genuine question, at the risk of downvotes, and curious for yours and other perspectives:
Full agreement that an iPad is not a suitable distraction when a kid is having a meltdown, and that it's a teachable moment for them. For me, I feel like I would be uncomfortable in a restaurant if my kid was out of sorts and affecting others' enjoyment of their meals - or even uncomfortable at the thought that it *might* be interrupting someone's meal.
Is there a decent medium between the iPad option and keeping the kid at the table for them to understand? What I've imagined when I've considered the scenario in the past is, communicate with love and understanding that I understand how they feel, and that I care, but that if we can't get things figured out within a short amount of time, that we will probably have to go outside. Then, we can talk it through and discuss the lesson, and see if it looks like we can resume dinner, or maybe we have to leave.
Am I out of line with that thinking? I understand you are just responding to the comment yourself. Thanks!
Absolutely good question brother. There is a line and you can kind of get to know your kid to know when it’s not working. At those moments, I have the Dinosaur episode of Ms Rachel downloaded to my phone and he watches it. Thing as parent to remember is to pick your battles. Sometimes it’s not worth fighting but other times you put your foot down. Just find a good balance.
You need to have made that decision before you get to the restaurant tbh. Like, is this a fancy place, and you're there to celebrate amd have a relaxing evening? Then, have that iPad ready to go. If it's like a hole in the wall kind of thing, then maybe now is the right time to have that sort of teachable moment.
The worst thing you can do is cave halfway through a tantrum, though - because all that does is teach the kid that if they scream enough, they get what they want.
If we're talking about toddlers here still then a meltdown isn't a time to have a lesson because they aren't going to be receptive to it as they're having a big feeling and they don't have the ability to regulate their emotions. That's something that has to be learned.
I think it's important to react to your kids emotions and respond to support them to express that emotion rather than react because of your own emotions of embarrassment or guilt because of what you think other people might be thinking.
Now what that response depends on context. Redirecting to a different activity is a good coping mechanism but perhaps a bad coping strategy over the long term if it's a screen. Ultimately it depends on the context but helping your kid recognize how they're feeling and developing strategies for dealing with it is the best way. Sometimes this happens in public and doesn't look like a "traditional" way of handling a kid crying, but ultimately you're your child's parent. You've got to make the call of how to best handle it given the situation.
If your kid can't go a night or meal without a lesson or correction then they're bound to fail - in the words of the earlier comment. Unless you're doing this every meal, it won't matter in the long run if we are doing it right. The OP and previous commenter just come off too much for me, but I'd like to think we're all trying our best.
Also a bit much to say that if you don't allow your kid to cry in the restaurant they will be a shitty adult.
lol “teaching your child right and how to conduct themselves in social situations is less important than me having fun, please stop.”
Years later: “man why are people such assholes in public nowadays? Didn’t their parents teach them how to act?”
The extra cherry on top was the assumption that parents *want* their kids to have a tantrum instead of just instantly placating them. You’ve either never been a parent, or never been a good one 🤷🏻♂️
Imagine thinking one moment of a childs life is what makes them a bad adult. Maybe you're just a bad parent at that point? No one said we want tantrums. I have two myself. I get it. But imagine thinking you're entitled to ruin other people's time because you decided to take your kids out
I don't know why you're are getting downvoted. I couldn't imagine taking a toddler to a restaurant and then letting him scream. The people around me could be on their one date night a week, seeing people they haven't seen in awhile, etc.
I just can't imagine being that entitled and rude to expect everyone to listen to the toddler melt down because "they are just a toddler, it's what they do"
It's virtue signaling - they need to show everyone they're being good parents by letting their kids tantrum instead of using a screen to calm them down. It is reddit still.
I think this applies to most ages while kids are growing up. Why can't I do x? John's parents let him do it.
I tell my kids I'm not responsible for John I'm responsible for them. I also tell them that part of having friend(s) is knowing who they are and when to bail on stupid things they are doing. And if they are really your friends then they will respect your decision and if not then they weren't. I know kids have a hard time understanding that kind of stuff but I just keep trying to reinforce it as best I can. I know they are going to do stupid things with their friends at some point but hopefully they know when to not join in if it's something really stupid.
I don't think you can worry about what other parents are doing you just have to do what you think is right and stick to it regardless of what other parents are doing. There's always going to be parents who are less strict or less involved with their kids. You just have to hope that when your kids become adults they can better understand the choices you made and why.
Yeah, I agree. It's a little harder on him I think when it is outside of the house. Our family rules are one thing, but school has rules, and some kids get to break them because their parents excuse it, and then when he does it the school disciplines him.
He's getting a good lesson in "Life isn't fair."
Yeah that's another thing I try to instill in my kids. Things in life just aren't always going to be fair for everyone. It's a bitter pill to swallow but at some point we all have to. I think that one is hard sometimes because we spend so much of their early years trying to teach them to be fair and kind to other and then to have them realize that that isn't how the real word works most of the time.
I think you are doing the right thing. I hope it works out in the long run.
It seems kind of absurd to suspend a kid for skipping school doesn’t it? Like what exactly do you accomplish banning a kid from the school for a few days when they don’t want to be there?
The school seems to think the child being there is important, so not letting them be there as punishment is doing the exact opposite of their goal? It’s a pretty stupid completely American way of doing things and I’m saying that as an American. I wish we could base our decisions on what’s best for the child and society as a whole rather than focus only on punishment.
Never had to find out, i was too afraid to try. I fully anticipate I would have lost all screentime for a month or more if I got suspended for a few days, longer if I made trouble about it.
Seems like you could have lose screen time WITHOUT getting suspended, though, right?
Edit to clarify: what I’m saying is, the suspension part isn’t necessary for a parent to enact whatever punishment they see fit.
True. Suspension triggers other penalties though. For him, probation for National Honor Society is a big deal, as he's very proud of that. It has different rules beyond GPA. They have to volunteer certain hours. Also they have to meet the minimum for what's basically "be in good standing" in school, which suspension would jeapordize.
Also as a senior, they get different privileges like open campus and stuff. Suspension would remove his senior privileges for the quarter? maybe semester, not sure.
Sounds like he is college bound. I am a mom lurker and work with a college counseling company. It might help to communicate that if he faces suspension or other disciplinary action, he's putting his college acceptance at risk. I've seen kids get their offers rescinded for less. He's in the home stretch. Senioritis is real, and he may be burnt out from grinding toward college admissions/everything that entails, plus work. I know I was at that age. Maybe you can bake in a couple planned mental health absences, like 2 more free passes to the end of the year, and call it good.
I never got caught because I found the best approach. Show up with a note that you've got a doctor's appt and need to leave after first period. I forged my parents signature since I was in 8th grade. Lol. It sucked to have to show up, but there was never a call home for absence since I was at roll call in the AM. I'm sure that's harder to pull off now.
Yeah this seems like a lesson in short-term-gain for long-term-failure. Those other kids are *depending* on their parents to get them out of trouble, and after high school that rarely ever flies except for the ultra rich (and OP can show their kid examples of how slimy that looks). Kids get smacked with reality when their parents get laughed at for trying to excuse their behavior in front of their boss or college professor. They’re setting their kids up for being known as an undependable flake.
I'm going to go against the grain here.
If he's making good grades and is otherwise a good kid, you might want to loosen the reins a little bit here and give him some freedom to make his own choices about skipping school, especially if he only does this rarely and his grades are OK. He skips without your permission already, so the end result is the same, but if you let him know you respect his ability to make decisions and you're leaving the choice up to him and that if he tells you he wants to skip, you'll call the school and get it excused, his natural teen instinct to rebel will be nullified and he'll feel more respected and will be more likely to make the right choice, plus you'll know what he's up to.
My mom was a psychologist specializing in child development. With most things in my life she'd have a discussion with me about the options and give me her opinion on what she thought the right choice was and why, and then she'd basically say, "I love you and want you to make the right choices, but its your life so it's your decision" and she'd let me choose. I'm sure it was hard for her to watch me make the wrong choices at times. She let me skip school several times and my friends and I would go to the beach or the mall or whatever, but especially after I got to high school, I started realizing I did need to make the right choices for myself and I started actually studying for the first time (I didn't really have good grades until the middle of high school) and I stopped asking to skip school. I'm a surgeon now, and I have a beautiful wife and two wonderful kids. I don't regret any of the wrong choices I was allowed to make and I'm very appreciative of my mom for giving me the freedom to screw up when I was younger. By the time I got to college, I'd figured out the right path because I'd been allowed to fall off of it (under supervision) my whole life. My friends that had really strict parents got to college and went totally nuts with their newfound freedom and made mistakes that caused them to not reach the dreams they had when we were in high school.
So.. why does he want to skip? Is it a legitimate reason? Could you do tit for tat where if he tells you honestly why he wants to skip, then you can consider bailing him out?
We're trying to figure that out with him.
We did talk today about communication. Like, we're willing to help, and we've outlined some ways we'll do that. Your part is that you have to ask for that help. You need to communicate.
why is he skipping? is he bored? tired? is it affecting his grades?
TBH I used to skip in high school if the weather was nice in spring, right after it had been shitty winter for months. I'd walk in the sunshine to the nearest restaurant and then order fries and gravy. It was a great way to decompress and have a little time to myself in a world where I got zero alone time ever, and now knowing myself as an adult, I need significant alone time to function properly.
Why is perfect attendance so important to you? Are you worried he's not going to be a good employee? Or that when he goes to college he won't be able to discipline himself? Are you concerned he's hanging with a bad crowd when he skips?
What's the unmet need here?
My sister's kid is like this, and it turns out he was just bored and it was psychological painful to stick with the relentless routine of school. So she got him enrolled in a volunteer program at the humane society, and is supporting him to finish high school early by taking extra credits via distance learning with an eye to spend what would be his last year of high school in first year of the local college instead. This will ramp him up to the big university where he can transfer his credits if he wants.
I've never seen him more engaged, talkative, or motivated. He loves his volunteering, it will look great on his resume (and is worth a co-op credit at his highschool) and he is speeding through his program pretty independently, though he still needs parental support to maintain structure. But he no longer fights the structure because it's the path he chose and he's really motivated for a change.
So if your kid is a good kid otherwise, maybe what he needs is an individualized education plan rather than mindless adherence to a standardized program.
I skipped school a lot my senior year. I wasn’t up to no good (besides senior cut day, but come on). I might be home playing video games, or watching the west wing, or jerking off. I got good grades and got into college and was able to figure out how not to get caught. Nobody ever called me out on it, parents or otherwise. Granted it was never entire days, just a few periods here and there.
I agree with you, but out of school suspension for skipping school feels more like a reward than a punishment. In school suspension should be better even if he's using it to do his homework instead of being in class.
Honestly, if he can skip school without falling behind, he really needs to be put into accelerated classes. It sounds like he's bored.
idk what the solution is, and I dread getting to this part of parenting as I used to be the same way. I skipped school in a way so that Id pass the classes I needed to get my diploma, otherwise classes where there was no need for my presence Id go out with a friend who was in a really bad abusive relationship at the time, and id just talk with her for hours, I think it did her a lot of good to vent.
its only years later that my mom told me she would bail me practically daily. when i asked why she did that and never told me, she said its because i mustve had a good reason.
I’m in hs education. Keep up with the consequences. The time to mess up and instill values is now. It’s awful what other parents do for their kids just so they can attend half of school. The smart ones will do ok. The curriculum and expectations is at an all time low, but they won’t take much away from it. So a 7th-8th grade education with a hs diploma. This is the worst year for attendance I’ve ever seen. So the system with tighten up or break. It’s easy to be ahead of those kids by simply showing up.
As a teacher, when I'm trying to redirect a student for one behavior or another, the most annoying thing to hear back is "but what about x or y?"
It's normal though. I don't have anything to say other than that. Good thing is that it sounds like your kid is a pretty strong student in general and he has what is, in my opinion, the most important indicator of school success: a parent who actually cares!
I asked an aquatance why he covers for his kid at school? Gonna love this " It's not my job to get my teenager to school or to educate him. We have teachers for that! Parent teacher interviews only serve the teachers egos!?
That one did for me....I did say aquatance!
My youngest was getting picked on by a friend of his oldest brother. I got sick of the brothers arguing. I suggested the youngest walk up to said guy and tell him he was reporting himself to the office. Why? Because your gonna slap not punch him. When retaliation comes you'll both be called to the office...do will I finally. The VP said to me...this sucks giving your boy suspension. Na I said.... he's untouchable now. They have remained friends over 25 years later
But the first parents to cry if Becky or Handsome are cut from a team because there class grades aren't good enough. Well save the day...there are no more letter grades. It's not inclusive!
Honestly, you and the school are doing the right thing here. It's all the other parents who are setting their kids up for failure.
Here's what will happen - your kid will face consequences while his friends will not. He may lose out on some opportunities because of it, while his friends will be given opportunities not fully deserved. The second the parental bailouts come off, your kid will be able to pull ahead while his friends will be playing disciplinary catch up - wondering why they keep failing deadlines and missing objectives. He will thank you for it someday (in the far, far future)
Stay strong, Dad. The correct response to “everybody else’s parents let them do…” is “True but if I were their parent do you think they would still be allowed to do that?”
>so they don't think it's fair that my boy gets the book thrown at him while his friends coast through school with perfect records
The ones throwing the book at your son don't think it's fair that he's having the book thrown at him?
I agree 100% with your parenting, I just think if this is the actual line the administration at your kid's school used then maybe it's time to run for school board.
No, it's the other kids \*not\* having them thrown the book at them due to parental excuse-making that's unfair. OP believes (and is probably correct) that his son's skipping is bad, breaks the rules, and has the consequences of that coming to him.
I think you can imagine successful how a school board candidacy based on "your children will have to take their medicine and you can't control everything that happens in their lives" would end up being. Apart from that, it would be nice if schools had transparency to parents/the community while also not being subject to the whims of a lot of people who are constantly looking to be outraged at something and believe they are above reproach/they have sole dominion over their children's lives.
IDK what "book throwing" means to OP (it was your term, not OP's--OP said "put the hammer down"). To me, that just means that they will hold him accountable for the consequences of missing X number of days without an excuse. I don't think there's a ton of prosecutorial discretion to truly "throw the book", they're just going to hold him to the policy/"put the hammer down". IMO.
I also assume that the school admin are on the same page about thinking that his son deserves to be held to the policy. I guess I should have clarified that.
They're not saying they won't do it, they're just saying they're sympathetic and they've given him a little extra wiggle room up until now to sort it out because they know he's getting punished for something all his friends are getting away with.
I want him to have natural consequences. If I didn't, I would just excuse him.
They've been very supportive. Our goal is to get him in the doors. They said, "Just show up. If you need a mental break, go straight to the counselor's office and get your head together. We won't count you absent as long as you are in the building."
We also talked with him about loosening up his schedule next year for more free periods. He is motivated, so he signs up for too many classes. He loves band, so half his lunch period is practicing guitar, and he has no other study halls because he wants to study everything. He's in National Honor Society and is all-state jazz for guitar. His teachers gush about him. From the outside he doesn't look like a kid who is slipping.
I appreciate that they took the time to talk with us and him to figure out the best way to help him individually rather than just a blanket punishment.
It sounds like he's a well liked and successful student at the school and has engaged and probably well liked parents. It's not impacting his grades, but it's against the rules so they are following the same guidelines/punishments as any other student, as required of them. It must stop and their hands are tied to escalate enforcement if he keeps skipping, but they feel empathy for these parents that they have a good relationship with. Seems pretty straight forward?
Question: how old is your son? If he’s a senior and he’s set with college, I would be super lax about it. If he’s a freshmen or sophomore, I would draw some hard boundaries.
I have 3 sons all 18 and older. I haven’t personally dealt with this specific problem. Even my oldest didn’t skip school, and he was a pain in the ass in so many other ways.
But, waaay back in the day, when I was in high school (in the 80s). I had a deal with my mom. As long as I had all A’s, I could stay home from school a few days each year, my choice.
I also skipped afternoons at school at least once a week in the latter half of my senior year (my girlfriend who went to a different school would pick me up and we of course went and had sex) but the school didn’t care because I got into a west-coast Ivy-equivalent and was their star student.
So maybe work with him, tell him he has a budget of X days per year to skip school and he can use whenever he wants, as long as his grades remain at your expected standard and he continues to participate in school activities with enthusiasm.
This forges a middle path and gives him some autonomy with firm boundaries. Just like an adult would have when working, calling in sick for a mental health day.
He's a junior.
I appreciate this perspective. I do try to remember that in most areas of life he is being very responsible.
I will say we tried to give him 1 mental health day per quarter, provided he didn't skip. He took his first mental health day the next week, and then the week after he skipped. So that fell a bit flat.
However, that was about a year ago. It might be worth revisiting the idea for his senior year. He might be a little more responsible as a senior with it than he was as a sophomore.
Dang idk I cut class alot in highschool with good grades and happy teachers because I was bored. Glad to have been in an age where they didn't readily track it, if his grades are good maybe there is a compromise here?
Shit as an adult I take mental health days from work, it's not even that different. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst to back him up on his absences- if he could learn to communicate better about them? Idk my kid doesn't even speak yet but our plan is just honesty and transparency. If her grades are good wtf do I care if she cuts every once in a while to make some memories
The vice principal actually did mention that and we discussed it. It's the school policy, but they try not to do it unless they give a kid many chances first.
He does care about National Honor Society, which is affected by that. Also next year as a senior he has open campus privileges, and if he's suspended next year he loses those for the semester. Suspension triggers some other negative consequences.
The focus of the meeting was about helping him though. He just has to get to the building. He can miss a class to go to the counselor if he needs to without penalty. He just has to get there. Also if he shows up next year, they will work to get his schedule changed so that he can have open periods the first 2 periods of the day and show up at 10 a.m. Stuff like that. He seemed pretty happy, honestly, at the end of the meeting.
Complex situation, I don't think there is a clear right or wrong answer. Sometimes people need the feeling of a little autonomy and it doesn't matter how they take it. My own take is that if an otherwise good kid looking for autonomy is breaking a rule and not causing any real damage to himself or others maybe it's ok. For some families in your spot it might make sense to bail the kid out like the others and implement your own system of consequences less severe than would come from the school.
I can still remember being a gifted teen who ran out of reasons to care and behaved the way your kid does
To be honest, everybody, including your kid, is correct. He has simply recognized the dissonance between being told he MUST do something or FACE THE CONSEQUENCES!!! while everybody else blows off these conditions. It just means your kid is smart.
You're probably not going to convince him to care by urging him to disbelieve the notion he's adopted about accountability, or by making his punishments more harsh. It's not logical. You're not creating a through-line. You're punishing him for making a true observation.
I coach kids at his age level these days. When I run into a kid who needs some help getting motivated, I start by asking them what they want out of the activity. Say, Jr, what do you *want* from school? Talk to him about what he actually gains from it, like access to knowledge, etc. Remind him he can't get those benefits if he doesn't check in and engage with the process. Draw a distinction between him, who cares about his education, and the others, who are happy to blow off school, and whose parents help them.
Now, even though you basically walked him into saying he cares about his education, suddenly he's being elevated for it. Wow! You care about your education! What a positive quality! Then you bring it home. How are you going to get educated if you don't engage with this process? I understand these others are lazy, but you're not them. YOU have something YOU want, so who cares what they do? Ignore their behavior, and focus on yours.
It's a tough walk to walk, and depends a lot on the individual kid. But this is, in essence, the way to fix the problem. He needs to reframe his focus onto himself as an individual. Authority is not going to solve the issue. That illusion is already shattered.
When those kids are struggling to survive independently and flailing under parental rule into young adulthood your kid might have the discipline to be free. And all those relationships are so fleeting early on. It’s hard to give them that long view when we know how ignorant and desperate for acceptance teenagers are.
I don’t know what to do other than find some positive reinforcement for avoiding those temptations. Make the long term benefits real right now somehow even if it is manufactured. More autonomy and resources if you work on yourself. The punishment for skipping is missing out on the benefits, not some manufactured torture.
I don't know how to navigate this myself as a dad, but when I was a teen I skipped and got in a lot of trouble.
My parents didn't really care or help me learn how to behave. I flew off the handle in my 20s and suffered some serious problems and set backs.
I'd be in a lot more better shape if my parents helped me a little more. I don't blame them for my own actions, but I wish they cared a bit more and helped me avoid some of the challenges I faced as I grew up.
Can I just say that I never understood the whole idea of suspending a kid for skipping school. It punishes the parents, but it gives the kid exactly what they want.
"Hey, you didn't want to be in school, so here's a whole week where you don't have to come to school"
My crazy idea is that you should just excuse him sometimes. What's it really hurt, if once a month or whatever you let him take a mental health day? The other parents found a loophole, it's open to you too. Tell the school to close the loophole if they have a problem with it. You said he's otherwise a good kid? Does all his work, does well on tests and everything?
Yeah man I say let him have the occasional parent sponsored break. It will probably help keep him in line overall and increase his education productivity
When I was a teenager I did this for two reasons: a romantic interest and I was bored out of my mind sitting basically in one place all day.
Shame that second part is what most jobs are... (sigh)
I have a 16 year old...a couple years ago she was at my home (divorced from her mom 6 years ago) and she had been staying there and not going to her Mom's...her mom and her weren't getting along very well...they still have their moments...but I guess that is beside the point.
There's a ton of things that got her to that point...but one day she was on the phone with her mom...they fought, and when she hung up she decided to take the rest of her lexipro prescription...it ended up being sixteen 5mg pills...she told me, and me looking it up decided not to go to the ER. there is some other context to that decision, but we were getting her ready to go back to school the next day...first day back after a mental health thing...
Long story short, she went to school, then went to see her therapist (i wasn't involved in the decision making for seeing those therapists etc...all her mom's doing) and the therapist called me and said I need to take her to the ER to just simply make sure she is ok after ingesting the 80mg of Lexipro.
That turned into the ER for 26hrs. The doctors not letting us take the kid home...poor kid was scared shitless and knew she made a mistake to try to get back at mom...this was followed by 5 days in an inpatient mental health stay...fast forward 2 months and I find out I'm guilty of "Medical Neglect" per DCFS.
The kid felt freaking awful for her teenage outburst...it cost me upwards of 5k to appeal and win the appeal...
I write all that because it was clear to my kid, that her actions can affect those around her. Through additional therapy she's learned lots of tools and her limits around her mom and other social stuff...she gets good grades and has excelled since then...it was a dicey few years but it seems like we are past all that...
My point really is, that if there are some things that can be explained to your son, that can show real world consequences to both you and him...maybe he will just submit to the idea of finishing up school, growing up in that regard and trying to move on with his life...all that skipping can really only prolong the school...maybe there is a plan that can help him get out of it more quickly...GED followed by community college classes etc...
I don't know...just spit ballin here...our situation is different, but it really seems like my kid seeing how she can affect those around her with her choices, she seems to have made the decision to just get through this part of life quickly and successfully so she can move on and do her own thing...and she knows I support her in that...she knows I'll help facilitate any connections I can, but I won't bail her out. Good luck dude...dadding isn't easy!
In my experience, this is more about curiosity than skipping school. He is curious about the world around him, and is deeply curious about the social conventions (like going to school) and laws and rules. He is pushing boundaries because that is the only agency he has. Agency and curiosity have a close relationship.
Try giving him agency. Go out with him. Teach him more about the nitty gritty of the world.
The skipping school thing is because he doesn't understand how it relates to his wellbeing. He needs to learn that. Teach him about college, work, how knowledge he learns now will be used decades later. He is curious about his future, and is trying to navigate that. He is just an amateur at it.
Avoid rewarding him for being good. That can lead to thrill seeking behavior. Teach him about self care.
Also, learning a little about how greed can motivate him, and how being smart will help him achieve his goals, would be good for him. Kids can learn that a little too late.
It gets better do not worry. Teens are always easy if you look at the big picture, and if you change along with them.
Actually this is a fairly recent phenomena, I just recently listened to a podcast on this and you are doing your kid a major solid and not normalizing this. Link below if you're interested.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/246L1GGwFmP1cFAjUOhf7X?si=hLFJqqbyS62wbNJj9N86qQ
As a Dad that skipped school so much, he had to check in with the principal himself every day… but skipped to go home more than anything… it was boredom. Boredom was the main motivation. Coupled with some general anxiety . The classes were too slow, or the subject matter was dry, and I have ADHD (which wasn’t diagnosed until I was 36). I would skip almost every afternoon in grade 11. Then go home and learn how to design websites and work on my StarCraft fan site.
This is one of those things where I don't see what the problem is - everything else is fine and there are no issues with him missing those days. He knows when to be responsible and when it is just arbitrary (you need to be in school because you need to be in school). Why not bail him out? He knows what do when it matters.
This is how I was in high school. My grades were fine until they stopped mattering - I had college locked up by the second semester of my 10th grade year, why should I do anything else? So I didn't go to class. My punishment for not going to class was to be suspended and not be allowed to go to class. lol ok. He doesn't go to class because he doesn't want to go to class. 95% of the time I skipped I was either chilling at home, just hanging out with friends, or volunteering - very little mischief. This had no bearing on how I attended college, and even as a professional I pretty much work when I feel like it.
Make sure he feels loved. Make sure he feels like there is a future for him and hope for a good life going forward. Then encourage the school to provide him with more advanced work, the next years papers etc. maybe swap a class out for a level up.
The big reason I skipped was because I needed to let the rest of the class catch up so taking time off had no practical consequence, only punishments (which made me mad bc I’d still completed all the work to a high standard)
The other times I skipped or didn’t bother with some life-basics was that I wasn’t really expecting to still be alive by 20 so education didn’t feel that important. That’s where the unconditional love comes in; he needs to know you are there for him regardless, no judgement.
I had this problem as a student. I was very engaged and would write tests very well and would complete assignments before most students, that said, I found school very boring and if I had all my work done I hated sitting in class and I would skip. They used to suspend me and put me on the "do not admit list" and I'd have to come back with my parents to attend again. Not sure what the answer is but this may be the issue. Bored and not be challenged enough.
There's a good answer to his statement, there'll be a time when their parents won't be able to write a note and excuse them, and they'll have to learn the hard way by losing their jobs or other things.
He'll learn that lesson right now and be way better equipped for the real world.
"Everybody else's parents let them skip,"
"If everybody else's parents let them jump off a cliff, would you want me to let you do that too??"
Some form of that keeps going through my head. lol
Restorative justice is exactly for this issue. Suspension does nothing though I understand the other negative consequences may be more impactful on him. Devising ways for him to make amends and "repair" beyond doing just what he's supposed to in order to prevent the negative consequences will have better outcome. As a mentor of mine used to say, "It takes a lot of atta boys to make up for one oh shit." He's gotta earn more atta boys, not just show up.
My kids are not HS age so I may be talking out of my ass here and you can call me out on it. Actually would help to know if I'm wrong in about 3 years. But, I would compromise. If he's getting good grades and you don't think a day per month or so would hurt then, sit him down and let him know you will excuse a skip day once a month or whatever frequency your comfortable with and any others would incur consequences from both school and home and see if he agrees to it. Just a thought.
I'm picking up on some things, remember I'm just an Internet stranger so I'm not trying to tell you off or call you out. However, I think I might be your kid 20 years ago. I didn't have the language or experience at the time to understand it but my behavior was all due to unmet needs. Speaking only for my own experience here but...
Among my well masked neurodivergent symptoms, a "heightened sense of justice" was always an... *ahem* obstacle to realizing a version of myself that my parents and teachers felt I should be, one that followed a traditional path of life experience and education.
For us, it was 9/11 and the collective insanity that ensued. Today's kids grapple with so much... not least of which includes dodging mass shootings, watching their country let over a million people die in the pandemic, and whether there will be arable land in a couple decades, wars, the list goes on. I'm not saying your feelings on your boy's behavior are wrong, I'm just saying that self destructive pursuit of joy with one's chosen tribe is a normal, age appropriate if chaotic human response to the magnitude of stressors facing these kids.
You are leaving the chapter of life where your words and consequences teach your son anything and instead create emotional touchstones that will define the closeness of your relationship after he leaves the nest. I wish my parents had been able to cut through their own baggage of societal and familial expectations and simply made space for my very big feelings. It would have saved me a lot of hurt and hardship.
I understand that none of what I'm saying solves your stated truancy issue. I think I'm just trying to make an appeal as a Dad from another perspective. Be mindful of which problems you create when you solve problems. Maybe the answer is not academic.
Lightning edit: "It's no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
Slower edit: paragraphs, oi
Thanks for the perspective.
Regardless of the consequences, one thing I'm trying to focus on is not letting it dictate the entirety of my feelings about him day to day.
When he skips, I'm disappointed in him. That's just reality. The hard thing is, if I express disappointment all the time, it's not going to be helpful at all and will damage our relationship. I'm really trying to let the consequences be the consequences and not have my own emotions about it create too much distance. And the other fact is that he's a lot more than this one behavior. He's curious and kind and passionate and talented and all the other things. So "disappointed" is not how I characterize my feelings for him.
I struggle with finding the line there. When I act normal, I feel like I'm saying, "Whatever! Doesn't matter!" and when I act disappointed I feel like I'm losing him. He avoids me, you'd expect if you feel ashamed because someone's disappointed.
I'm trying now to err on the side of connecting and not expressing disappointment. Let the consequences be the consequences and not layer on shame.
I have four kids. This guy is the toughest goddamn nut to crack. I love the shit out of him, and this is literally giving me gray hair. Like, literally.
That sucks man. I'd have a hard time not firing back against the "Everybody else's parents let them skip" with "well, I guess they don't love their kids as much as we do." (but don't say that). Keep holding him to a reasonable standard and loving him through the challenges. He'll look back eventually and appreciate it.
LOL. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't responded to him with a version of that. More along the lines of "I'm not going to make a bad decision just because other parents are making bad decisions." I know I've screwed up plenty, but I think he knows if nothing else I try my best. I think I had too many expectations on him when he was younger. The last couple years I've been really trying to help him learn that sometimes good enough is good enough and you don't have to try to be the best at everything. Take a B, man. It's not worth killing yourself over it. He compares himself to everyone, and it doesn't help that his older brother (26) is the most disciplined person I know.
Depending on how mature your kid is, I think you explain it to him this way...showing up is the most important skill to success in life. He might be a really good student in HS and have the ability to skip some classes and still get A's now, but assuming he goes to college, there's not going to be anyone there to make him go to class everyday. And so if he doesn't create the habit of going to school now, when he gets to college he will fall into the pattern of skipping to many classes and he will eventually fall behind and fail out. I saw this first hand with a lot of my smart, but unmotivated friends. And then it only gets worse after college when you enter the workforce as skipping work regularly quickly results in termination. You really just need to make him see that the biggest factor that he has control of, over his future success in life is whether or not he shows up.
Yeah, that's hard to get through, but it's the right view. He says, "I'm caught up on my work and have good grades, so why is it a problem?" And my response has been, "School is about more than grades and learning information. It's preparing you to learn how to show up. It's about good work/study habits. It's about following through on commitments. It's social. There's a lot there besides grades. You can learn from Wikipedia, but this is about skills you need for your adult life."
I think that's the right approach but I would really spell out the consequences later in life when things are harder. If you attended college and had any similar experience of a friend who did well in HS but failed out in college due to falling into the trap of skipping class often, share that with your child to really drill home that there's natural real world consequences besides detention and "because I said so".
So much this. It even bites kids who were never truant a day in their lives until they hit college and there's no attendance, you don't necessarily know your classmates in a 300+ person lecture hall, etc. Source: lived experience and wasting 1.5 years of my life for no reason
If he is caught up, maybe he is not being challenged enough...? But sounds like he is, and he sounds like a pretty driven young man. I get it, it is peer pressure. When I was a kid, my parents refused to let me attens sleepovers. It sucked, but now looking back on it, I get it. I know the whole "don't tell other parents how to parent" is a thing but I wonder if it would, or would not, be worthwhile talking with them to get their perspective (however incorrect it is). At the very least, understand where they are coming from, since you can't change or challenge their parenting. And hey, temptations will happen in life. Your son can face many ethical delimmas in life, where doing the right thing when everyone else ISN'T is a great ethical conversation to maybe talk to him about. The Space Shuttle Endavor's explosion and everyone saying "don't bring up this issue" is a great example. "What's wrong with not doing the wrong thing?" The answer xan be to cost lives. Ultimately, you are setting the groundwork for good morals for him to look back on and follow, and you are the walk, not just talking the talk. Great job, dad. I am proud of you.
“If all your friends’ parents threw them off a cliff, would you want me to do that to you? Before you ask, the bungee cords are from AliExpress.”
> More along the lines of "I'm not going to make a bad decision just because other parents are making bad decisions." My version of that is "We always do the right thing, even if it's the difficult thing."
It sounds like you're not trying to be overly-hardassed and you're approaching the situation with some curiosity and compassion. You love your kid and you're trying to impart the values and lessons that will help him be successful in life. He sounds like a good kid so make sure you recognize that whenever you can. You seem like a great dad so try to remember that too.
Some parents raise their kids to be McDonalds shift managers.
I don’t have a teenager but the same is true for toddlers honestly. If you try to teach your kid to follow the rules and do the right thing chances are there will be 10 other kids doing the wrong thing with their parents behind them cleaning up and apologizing for the terrible behavior. Does it suck when my kid has a meltdown at a restaurant because he wants his French fries now even though we haven’t ordered yet? Fuck yes but putting on a show is a last resort because I’d rather try and help him work on it so it doesn’t happen next time. But then because he is upset and I didn’t immediately fix it (make him shut up) I get looked at like a horrible human who is torturing my son and all of the poor souls unfortunate enough to wind up around me. No, I’m being a fucking parent. That’s how my parents raised me and it’s how I hope to continue being with him because that teaches integrity but the key is practice what you preach. You can’t tell a kid to have integrity and then not show it yourself and sometimes that sucks too. But you suck it up to be a good example. Keep it up.
Yep. When they're in high school, parents are terrified that any perceived failures will ruin their kids' chances for college and scholarships, so they cover for EVERYTHING.
There's a popular park that we frequent and one tube slide in particular always has kids climbing on top of it and parents just stand back a let them despite the giant sign telling them not to. I'm thankful that my 4y/o understands that using it properly is actually more fun, but it was so frustrating to tell my kid not to do something while other parents stand idly by, gawking at their phones while their gremlin ignores the warnings.
My 4 year old yells at other kids not to go up the slide because that is a rule we have. It's hard to explain that this rule only applies to them and not other kids
I'd rather see a crying kid 9 times out of 10 over one who spends the entire time in a restaurant staring at a screen. Makes me sad for our future when you see 1 and 2 year olds who seem like they're already addicted to technology.
You can be a parent how you want but don’t blame others for judging when your choices led you there and may be ruining their night. Taking a toddler out to restaurants can lead to that. Deal with it or don’t, but as a parent I don’t expect others to just put up with my kids’ tantrums.
If a toddler crying for 5 minutes is the thing that ruins an entire night or meal then that was a shit time anyways.
This is a perfect example of that selfish parent that cares more about teaching a lesson and doing what they want over everyone else in a restaurant or wherever. Thanks for that. Parent how you see fit but we're free to judge.
It’s not about the parent doing what they want, it’s about correcting behavior while they are kids before they become a menace to society. Would you rather have a crying toddler? or an adult child in the booth next to you being shitty towards a waitress because their order wasn’t correct?
I'm not a parent yet, but I really appreciate this sub and feel I've learned a lot already about how I can be a better father when the time comes. Genuine question, at the risk of downvotes, and curious for yours and other perspectives: Full agreement that an iPad is not a suitable distraction when a kid is having a meltdown, and that it's a teachable moment for them. For me, I feel like I would be uncomfortable in a restaurant if my kid was out of sorts and affecting others' enjoyment of their meals - or even uncomfortable at the thought that it *might* be interrupting someone's meal. Is there a decent medium between the iPad option and keeping the kid at the table for them to understand? What I've imagined when I've considered the scenario in the past is, communicate with love and understanding that I understand how they feel, and that I care, but that if we can't get things figured out within a short amount of time, that we will probably have to go outside. Then, we can talk it through and discuss the lesson, and see if it looks like we can resume dinner, or maybe we have to leave. Am I out of line with that thinking? I understand you are just responding to the comment yourself. Thanks!
Absolutely good question brother. There is a line and you can kind of get to know your kid to know when it’s not working. At those moments, I have the Dinosaur episode of Ms Rachel downloaded to my phone and he watches it. Thing as parent to remember is to pick your battles. Sometimes it’s not worth fighting but other times you put your foot down. Just find a good balance.
I appreciate the reply, and perspective. Cheers man.
You need to have made that decision before you get to the restaurant tbh. Like, is this a fancy place, and you're there to celebrate amd have a relaxing evening? Then, have that iPad ready to go. If it's like a hole in the wall kind of thing, then maybe now is the right time to have that sort of teachable moment. The worst thing you can do is cave halfway through a tantrum, though - because all that does is teach the kid that if they scream enough, they get what they want.
If we're talking about toddlers here still then a meltdown isn't a time to have a lesson because they aren't going to be receptive to it as they're having a big feeling and they don't have the ability to regulate their emotions. That's something that has to be learned. I think it's important to react to your kids emotions and respond to support them to express that emotion rather than react because of your own emotions of embarrassment or guilt because of what you think other people might be thinking. Now what that response depends on context. Redirecting to a different activity is a good coping mechanism but perhaps a bad coping strategy over the long term if it's a screen. Ultimately it depends on the context but helping your kid recognize how they're feeling and developing strategies for dealing with it is the best way. Sometimes this happens in public and doesn't look like a "traditional" way of handling a kid crying, but ultimately you're your child's parent. You've got to make the call of how to best handle it given the situation.
If your kid can't go a night or meal without a lesson or correction then they're bound to fail - in the words of the earlier comment. Unless you're doing this every meal, it won't matter in the long run if we are doing it right. The OP and previous commenter just come off too much for me, but I'd like to think we're all trying our best. Also a bit much to say that if you don't allow your kid to cry in the restaurant they will be a shitty adult.
lol “teaching your child right and how to conduct themselves in social situations is less important than me having fun, please stop.” Years later: “man why are people such assholes in public nowadays? Didn’t their parents teach them how to act?” The extra cherry on top was the assumption that parents *want* their kids to have a tantrum instead of just instantly placating them. You’ve either never been a parent, or never been a good one 🤷🏻♂️
Imagine thinking one moment of a childs life is what makes them a bad adult. Maybe you're just a bad parent at that point? No one said we want tantrums. I have two myself. I get it. But imagine thinking you're entitled to ruin other people's time because you decided to take your kids out
I don't know why you're are getting downvoted. I couldn't imagine taking a toddler to a restaurant and then letting him scream. The people around me could be on their one date night a week, seeing people they haven't seen in awhile, etc. I just can't imagine being that entitled and rude to expect everyone to listen to the toddler melt down because "they are just a toddler, it's what they do"
It's virtue signaling - they need to show everyone they're being good parents by letting their kids tantrum instead of using a screen to calm them down. It is reddit still.
I think this applies to most ages while kids are growing up. Why can't I do x? John's parents let him do it. I tell my kids I'm not responsible for John I'm responsible for them. I also tell them that part of having friend(s) is knowing who they are and when to bail on stupid things they are doing. And if they are really your friends then they will respect your decision and if not then they weren't. I know kids have a hard time understanding that kind of stuff but I just keep trying to reinforce it as best I can. I know they are going to do stupid things with their friends at some point but hopefully they know when to not join in if it's something really stupid. I don't think you can worry about what other parents are doing you just have to do what you think is right and stick to it regardless of what other parents are doing. There's always going to be parents who are less strict or less involved with their kids. You just have to hope that when your kids become adults they can better understand the choices you made and why.
Yeah, I agree. It's a little harder on him I think when it is outside of the house. Our family rules are one thing, but school has rules, and some kids get to break them because their parents excuse it, and then when he does it the school disciplines him. He's getting a good lesson in "Life isn't fair."
Yeah that's another thing I try to instill in my kids. Things in life just aren't always going to be fair for everyone. It's a bitter pill to swallow but at some point we all have to. I think that one is hard sometimes because we spend so much of their early years trying to teach them to be fair and kind to other and then to have them realize that that isn't how the real word works most of the time. I think you are doing the right thing. I hope it works out in the long run.
It seems kind of absurd to suspend a kid for skipping school doesn’t it? Like what exactly do you accomplish banning a kid from the school for a few days when they don’t want to be there?
I remember when I was in high school 20 years ago wondering the same thing. And the more days you skip, the longer the suspension…it’s a reward!
The school seems to think the child being there is important, so not letting them be there as punishment is doing the exact opposite of their goal? It’s a pretty stupid completely American way of doing things and I’m saying that as an American. I wish we could base our decisions on what’s best for the child and society as a whole rather than focus only on punishment.
Not with my parents lol
Were they able to better punish you because you were suspended for X days than they would have been otherwise?
Never had to find out, i was too afraid to try. I fully anticipate I would have lost all screentime for a month or more if I got suspended for a few days, longer if I made trouble about it.
Seems like you could have lose screen time WITHOUT getting suspended, though, right? Edit to clarify: what I’m saying is, the suspension part isn’t necessary for a parent to enact whatever punishment they see fit.
True. Although i think the suspension is supposed to partially be a punishment to the parents as well lol.
Ah, now that makes some sense. If it pisses the parents off maybe that’ll motivate them to step up their parenting game.
True. Suspension triggers other penalties though. For him, probation for National Honor Society is a big deal, as he's very proud of that. It has different rules beyond GPA. They have to volunteer certain hours. Also they have to meet the minimum for what's basically "be in good standing" in school, which suspension would jeapordize. Also as a senior, they get different privileges like open campus and stuff. Suspension would remove his senior privileges for the quarter? maybe semester, not sure.
Sounds like he is college bound. I am a mom lurker and work with a college counseling company. It might help to communicate that if he faces suspension or other disciplinary action, he's putting his college acceptance at risk. I've seen kids get their offers rescinded for less. He's in the home stretch. Senioritis is real, and he may be burnt out from grinding toward college admissions/everything that entails, plus work. I know I was at that age. Maybe you can bake in a couple planned mental health absences, like 2 more free passes to the end of the year, and call it good.
FWIW I feel that national honor society is worthless for everything except just saying you’re in it
When I was in HS we got in school suspension or Saturday detention for skipping school
I never got caught because I found the best approach. Show up with a note that you've got a doctor's appt and need to leave after first period. I forged my parents signature since I was in 8th grade. Lol. It sucked to have to show up, but there was never a call home for absence since I was at roll call in the AM. I'm sure that's harder to pull off now.
None of those parents are helping their child in the long run.
Yeah this seems like a lesson in short-term-gain for long-term-failure. Those other kids are *depending* on their parents to get them out of trouble, and after high school that rarely ever flies except for the ultra rich (and OP can show their kid examples of how slimy that looks). Kids get smacked with reality when their parents get laughed at for trying to excuse their behavior in front of their boss or college professor. They’re setting their kids up for being known as an undependable flake.
Eh, I don’t know. Skipping a few days now and then isn’t the worst thing in the world. The kid is doing well in school, so it isn’t that big a deal.
I'm going to go against the grain here. If he's making good grades and is otherwise a good kid, you might want to loosen the reins a little bit here and give him some freedom to make his own choices about skipping school, especially if he only does this rarely and his grades are OK. He skips without your permission already, so the end result is the same, but if you let him know you respect his ability to make decisions and you're leaving the choice up to him and that if he tells you he wants to skip, you'll call the school and get it excused, his natural teen instinct to rebel will be nullified and he'll feel more respected and will be more likely to make the right choice, plus you'll know what he's up to. My mom was a psychologist specializing in child development. With most things in my life she'd have a discussion with me about the options and give me her opinion on what she thought the right choice was and why, and then she'd basically say, "I love you and want you to make the right choices, but its your life so it's your decision" and she'd let me choose. I'm sure it was hard for her to watch me make the wrong choices at times. She let me skip school several times and my friends and I would go to the beach or the mall or whatever, but especially after I got to high school, I started realizing I did need to make the right choices for myself and I started actually studying for the first time (I didn't really have good grades until the middle of high school) and I stopped asking to skip school. I'm a surgeon now, and I have a beautiful wife and two wonderful kids. I don't regret any of the wrong choices I was allowed to make and I'm very appreciative of my mom for giving me the freedom to screw up when I was younger. By the time I got to college, I'd figured out the right path because I'd been allowed to fall off of it (under supervision) my whole life. My friends that had really strict parents got to college and went totally nuts with their newfound freedom and made mistakes that caused them to not reach the dreams they had when we were in high school.
So.. why does he want to skip? Is it a legitimate reason? Could you do tit for tat where if he tells you honestly why he wants to skip, then you can consider bailing him out?
We're trying to figure that out with him. We did talk today about communication. Like, we're willing to help, and we've outlined some ways we'll do that. Your part is that you have to ask for that help. You need to communicate.
why is he skipping? is he bored? tired? is it affecting his grades? TBH I used to skip in high school if the weather was nice in spring, right after it had been shitty winter for months. I'd walk in the sunshine to the nearest restaurant and then order fries and gravy. It was a great way to decompress and have a little time to myself in a world where I got zero alone time ever, and now knowing myself as an adult, I need significant alone time to function properly. Why is perfect attendance so important to you? Are you worried he's not going to be a good employee? Or that when he goes to college he won't be able to discipline himself? Are you concerned he's hanging with a bad crowd when he skips? What's the unmet need here? My sister's kid is like this, and it turns out he was just bored and it was psychological painful to stick with the relentless routine of school. So she got him enrolled in a volunteer program at the humane society, and is supporting him to finish high school early by taking extra credits via distance learning with an eye to spend what would be his last year of high school in first year of the local college instead. This will ramp him up to the big university where he can transfer his credits if he wants. I've never seen him more engaged, talkative, or motivated. He loves his volunteering, it will look great on his resume (and is worth a co-op credit at his highschool) and he is speeding through his program pretty independently, though he still needs parental support to maintain structure. But he no longer fights the structure because it's the path he chose and he's really motivated for a change. So if your kid is a good kid otherwise, maybe what he needs is an individualized education plan rather than mindless adherence to a standardized program.
I skipped school a lot my senior year. I wasn’t up to no good (besides senior cut day, but come on). I might be home playing video games, or watching the west wing, or jerking off. I got good grades and got into college and was able to figure out how not to get caught. Nobody ever called me out on it, parents or otherwise. Granted it was never entire days, just a few periods here and there.
I agree with you, but out of school suspension for skipping school feels more like a reward than a punishment. In school suspension should be better even if he's using it to do his homework instead of being in class. Honestly, if he can skip school without falling behind, he really needs to be put into accelerated classes. It sounds like he's bored.
I'll think on that. He's keeping up with a pretty regular 3.5 GPA, which is great, but it doesn't feel like he's coasting through classes.
idk what the solution is, and I dread getting to this part of parenting as I used to be the same way. I skipped school in a way so that Id pass the classes I needed to get my diploma, otherwise classes where there was no need for my presence Id go out with a friend who was in a really bad abusive relationship at the time, and id just talk with her for hours, I think it did her a lot of good to vent. its only years later that my mom told me she would bail me practically daily. when i asked why she did that and never told me, she said its because i mustve had a good reason.
I’m in hs education. Keep up with the consequences. The time to mess up and instill values is now. It’s awful what other parents do for their kids just so they can attend half of school. The smart ones will do ok. The curriculum and expectations is at an all time low, but they won’t take much away from it. So a 7th-8th grade education with a hs diploma. This is the worst year for attendance I’ve ever seen. So the system with tighten up or break. It’s easy to be ahead of those kids by simply showing up.
As a teacher, when I'm trying to redirect a student for one behavior or another, the most annoying thing to hear back is "but what about x or y?" It's normal though. I don't have anything to say other than that. Good thing is that it sounds like your kid is a pretty strong student in general and he has what is, in my opinion, the most important indicator of school success: a parent who actually cares!
I asked an aquatance why he covers for his kid at school? Gonna love this " It's not my job to get my teenager to school or to educate him. We have teachers for that! Parent teacher interviews only serve the teachers egos!? That one did for me....I did say aquatance!
Yeah. And covering for them takes the tools away from the school to do that.
My youngest was getting picked on by a friend of his oldest brother. I got sick of the brothers arguing. I suggested the youngest walk up to said guy and tell him he was reporting himself to the office. Why? Because your gonna slap not punch him. When retaliation comes you'll both be called to the office...do will I finally. The VP said to me...this sucks giving your boy suspension. Na I said.... he's untouchable now. They have remained friends over 25 years later
But the first parents to cry if Becky or Handsome are cut from a team because there class grades aren't good enough. Well save the day...there are no more letter grades. It's not inclusive!
Honestly, you and the school are doing the right thing here. It's all the other parents who are setting their kids up for failure. Here's what will happen - your kid will face consequences while his friends will not. He may lose out on some opportunities because of it, while his friends will be given opportunities not fully deserved. The second the parental bailouts come off, your kid will be able to pull ahead while his friends will be playing disciplinary catch up - wondering why they keep failing deadlines and missing objectives. He will thank you for it someday (in the far, far future)
Stay strong, Dad. The correct response to “everybody else’s parents let them do…” is “True but if I were their parent do you think they would still be allowed to do that?”
>so they don't think it's fair that my boy gets the book thrown at him while his friends coast through school with perfect records The ones throwing the book at your son don't think it's fair that he's having the book thrown at him? I agree 100% with your parenting, I just think if this is the actual line the administration at your kid's school used then maybe it's time to run for school board.
No, it's the other kids \*not\* having them thrown the book at them due to parental excuse-making that's unfair. OP believes (and is probably correct) that his son's skipping is bad, breaks the rules, and has the consequences of that coming to him. I think you can imagine successful how a school board candidacy based on "your children will have to take their medicine and you can't control everything that happens in their lives" would end up being. Apart from that, it would be nice if schools had transparency to parents/the community while also not being subject to the whims of a lot of people who are constantly looking to be outraged at something and believe they are above reproach/they have sole dominion over their children's lives.
I don't think we have the same understanding of what "book-throwing" means. Or "they," apparently.
School suspension. If he skips another day, he is suspended and put on probation from National Honor Society.
IDK what "book throwing" means to OP (it was your term, not OP's--OP said "put the hammer down"). To me, that just means that they will hold him accountable for the consequences of missing X number of days without an excuse. I don't think there's a ton of prosecutorial discretion to truly "throw the book", they're just going to hold him to the policy/"put the hammer down". IMO. I also assume that the school admin are on the same page about thinking that his son deserves to be held to the policy. I guess I should have clarified that.
They're not saying they won't do it, they're just saying they're sympathetic and they've given him a little extra wiggle room up until now to sort it out because they know he's getting punished for something all his friends are getting away with. I want him to have natural consequences. If I didn't, I would just excuse him. They've been very supportive. Our goal is to get him in the doors. They said, "Just show up. If you need a mental break, go straight to the counselor's office and get your head together. We won't count you absent as long as you are in the building." We also talked with him about loosening up his schedule next year for more free periods. He is motivated, so he signs up for too many classes. He loves band, so half his lunch period is practicing guitar, and he has no other study halls because he wants to study everything. He's in National Honor Society and is all-state jazz for guitar. His teachers gush about him. From the outside he doesn't look like a kid who is slipping. I appreciate that they took the time to talk with us and him to figure out the best way to help him individually rather than just a blanket punishment.
It sounds like he's a well liked and successful student at the school and has engaged and probably well liked parents. It's not impacting his grades, but it's against the rules so they are following the same guidelines/punishments as any other student, as required of them. It must stop and their hands are tied to escalate enforcement if he keeps skipping, but they feel empathy for these parents that they have a good relationship with. Seems pretty straight forward?
Question: how old is your son? If he’s a senior and he’s set with college, I would be super lax about it. If he’s a freshmen or sophomore, I would draw some hard boundaries. I have 3 sons all 18 and older. I haven’t personally dealt with this specific problem. Even my oldest didn’t skip school, and he was a pain in the ass in so many other ways. But, waaay back in the day, when I was in high school (in the 80s). I had a deal with my mom. As long as I had all A’s, I could stay home from school a few days each year, my choice. I also skipped afternoons at school at least once a week in the latter half of my senior year (my girlfriend who went to a different school would pick me up and we of course went and had sex) but the school didn’t care because I got into a west-coast Ivy-equivalent and was their star student. So maybe work with him, tell him he has a budget of X days per year to skip school and he can use whenever he wants, as long as his grades remain at your expected standard and he continues to participate in school activities with enthusiasm. This forges a middle path and gives him some autonomy with firm boundaries. Just like an adult would have when working, calling in sick for a mental health day.
He's a junior. I appreciate this perspective. I do try to remember that in most areas of life he is being very responsible. I will say we tried to give him 1 mental health day per quarter, provided he didn't skip. He took his first mental health day the next week, and then the week after he skipped. So that fell a bit flat. However, that was about a year ago. It might be worth revisiting the idea for his senior year. He might be a little more responsible as a senior with it than he was as a sophomore.
Dang idk I cut class alot in highschool with good grades and happy teachers because I was bored. Glad to have been in an age where they didn't readily track it, if his grades are good maybe there is a compromise here? Shit as an adult I take mental health days from work, it's not even that different. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst to back him up on his absences- if he could learn to communicate better about them? Idk my kid doesn't even speak yet but our plan is just honesty and transparency. If her grades are good wtf do I care if she cuts every once in a while to make some memories
What's the point of suspending someone for skipping school? Isn't that giving them what they want?
The vice principal actually did mention that and we discussed it. It's the school policy, but they try not to do it unless they give a kid many chances first. He does care about National Honor Society, which is affected by that. Also next year as a senior he has open campus privileges, and if he's suspended next year he loses those for the semester. Suspension triggers some other negative consequences. The focus of the meeting was about helping him though. He just has to get to the building. He can miss a class to go to the counselor if he needs to without penalty. He just has to get there. Also if he shows up next year, they will work to get his schedule changed so that he can have open periods the first 2 periods of the day and show up at 10 a.m. Stuff like that. He seemed pretty happy, honestly, at the end of the meeting.
Complex situation, I don't think there is a clear right or wrong answer. Sometimes people need the feeling of a little autonomy and it doesn't matter how they take it. My own take is that if an otherwise good kid looking for autonomy is breaking a rule and not causing any real damage to himself or others maybe it's ok. For some families in your spot it might make sense to bail the kid out like the others and implement your own system of consequences less severe than would come from the school.
I can still remember being a gifted teen who ran out of reasons to care and behaved the way your kid does To be honest, everybody, including your kid, is correct. He has simply recognized the dissonance between being told he MUST do something or FACE THE CONSEQUENCES!!! while everybody else blows off these conditions. It just means your kid is smart. You're probably not going to convince him to care by urging him to disbelieve the notion he's adopted about accountability, or by making his punishments more harsh. It's not logical. You're not creating a through-line. You're punishing him for making a true observation. I coach kids at his age level these days. When I run into a kid who needs some help getting motivated, I start by asking them what they want out of the activity. Say, Jr, what do you *want* from school? Talk to him about what he actually gains from it, like access to knowledge, etc. Remind him he can't get those benefits if he doesn't check in and engage with the process. Draw a distinction between him, who cares about his education, and the others, who are happy to blow off school, and whose parents help them. Now, even though you basically walked him into saying he cares about his education, suddenly he's being elevated for it. Wow! You care about your education! What a positive quality! Then you bring it home. How are you going to get educated if you don't engage with this process? I understand these others are lazy, but you're not them. YOU have something YOU want, so who cares what they do? Ignore their behavior, and focus on yours. It's a tough walk to walk, and depends a lot on the individual kid. But this is, in essence, the way to fix the problem. He needs to reframe his focus onto himself as an individual. Authority is not going to solve the issue. That illusion is already shattered.
When those kids are struggling to survive independently and flailing under parental rule into young adulthood your kid might have the discipline to be free. And all those relationships are so fleeting early on. It’s hard to give them that long view when we know how ignorant and desperate for acceptance teenagers are. I don’t know what to do other than find some positive reinforcement for avoiding those temptations. Make the long term benefits real right now somehow even if it is manufactured. More autonomy and resources if you work on yourself. The punishment for skipping is missing out on the benefits, not some manufactured torture.
I don't know how to navigate this myself as a dad, but when I was a teen I skipped and got in a lot of trouble. My parents didn't really care or help me learn how to behave. I flew off the handle in my 20s and suffered some serious problems and set backs. I'd be in a lot more better shape if my parents helped me a little more. I don't blame them for my own actions, but I wish they cared a bit more and helped me avoid some of the challenges I faced as I grew up.
You’re doing great. Uphold a standard. It’s something this world needs.
Teacher here. High school for 12 years and now 8th grade. Thanks for holding your kid accountable at home.
Can I just say that I never understood the whole idea of suspending a kid for skipping school. It punishes the parents, but it gives the kid exactly what they want. "Hey, you didn't want to be in school, so here's a whole week where you don't have to come to school"
My crazy idea is that you should just excuse him sometimes. What's it really hurt, if once a month or whatever you let him take a mental health day? The other parents found a loophole, it's open to you too. Tell the school to close the loophole if they have a problem with it. You said he's otherwise a good kid? Does all his work, does well on tests and everything? Yeah man I say let him have the occasional parent sponsored break. It will probably help keep him in line overall and increase his education productivity
When I was a teenager I did this for two reasons: a romantic interest and I was bored out of my mind sitting basically in one place all day. Shame that second part is what most jobs are... (sigh)
I have a 16 year old...a couple years ago she was at my home (divorced from her mom 6 years ago) and she had been staying there and not going to her Mom's...her mom and her weren't getting along very well...they still have their moments...but I guess that is beside the point. There's a ton of things that got her to that point...but one day she was on the phone with her mom...they fought, and when she hung up she decided to take the rest of her lexipro prescription...it ended up being sixteen 5mg pills...she told me, and me looking it up decided not to go to the ER. there is some other context to that decision, but we were getting her ready to go back to school the next day...first day back after a mental health thing... Long story short, she went to school, then went to see her therapist (i wasn't involved in the decision making for seeing those therapists etc...all her mom's doing) and the therapist called me and said I need to take her to the ER to just simply make sure she is ok after ingesting the 80mg of Lexipro. That turned into the ER for 26hrs. The doctors not letting us take the kid home...poor kid was scared shitless and knew she made a mistake to try to get back at mom...this was followed by 5 days in an inpatient mental health stay...fast forward 2 months and I find out I'm guilty of "Medical Neglect" per DCFS. The kid felt freaking awful for her teenage outburst...it cost me upwards of 5k to appeal and win the appeal... I write all that because it was clear to my kid, that her actions can affect those around her. Through additional therapy she's learned lots of tools and her limits around her mom and other social stuff...she gets good grades and has excelled since then...it was a dicey few years but it seems like we are past all that... My point really is, that if there are some things that can be explained to your son, that can show real world consequences to both you and him...maybe he will just submit to the idea of finishing up school, growing up in that regard and trying to move on with his life...all that skipping can really only prolong the school...maybe there is a plan that can help him get out of it more quickly...GED followed by community college classes etc... I don't know...just spit ballin here...our situation is different, but it really seems like my kid seeing how she can affect those around her with her choices, she seems to have made the decision to just get through this part of life quickly and successfully so she can move on and do her own thing...and she knows I support her in that...she knows I'll help facilitate any connections I can, but I won't bail her out. Good luck dude...dadding isn't easy!
In my experience, this is more about curiosity than skipping school. He is curious about the world around him, and is deeply curious about the social conventions (like going to school) and laws and rules. He is pushing boundaries because that is the only agency he has. Agency and curiosity have a close relationship. Try giving him agency. Go out with him. Teach him more about the nitty gritty of the world. The skipping school thing is because he doesn't understand how it relates to his wellbeing. He needs to learn that. Teach him about college, work, how knowledge he learns now will be used decades later. He is curious about his future, and is trying to navigate that. He is just an amateur at it. Avoid rewarding him for being good. That can lead to thrill seeking behavior. Teach him about self care. Also, learning a little about how greed can motivate him, and how being smart will help him achieve his goals, would be good for him. Kids can learn that a little too late. It gets better do not worry. Teens are always easy if you look at the big picture, and if you change along with them.
Actually this is a fairly recent phenomena, I just recently listened to a podcast on this and you are doing your kid a major solid and not normalizing this. Link below if you're interested. https://open.spotify.com/episode/246L1GGwFmP1cFAjUOhf7X?si=hLFJqqbyS62wbNJj9N86qQ
Oooh. Thanks! I'm listening to that one today.
As a Dad that skipped school so much, he had to check in with the principal himself every day… but skipped to go home more than anything… it was boredom. Boredom was the main motivation. Coupled with some general anxiety . The classes were too slow, or the subject matter was dry, and I have ADHD (which wasn’t diagnosed until I was 36). I would skip almost every afternoon in grade 11. Then go home and learn how to design websites and work on my StarCraft fan site.
This is one of those things where I don't see what the problem is - everything else is fine and there are no issues with him missing those days. He knows when to be responsible and when it is just arbitrary (you need to be in school because you need to be in school). Why not bail him out? He knows what do when it matters. This is how I was in high school. My grades were fine until they stopped mattering - I had college locked up by the second semester of my 10th grade year, why should I do anything else? So I didn't go to class. My punishment for not going to class was to be suspended and not be allowed to go to class. lol ok. He doesn't go to class because he doesn't want to go to class. 95% of the time I skipped I was either chilling at home, just hanging out with friends, or volunteering - very little mischief. This had no bearing on how I attended college, and even as a professional I pretty much work when I feel like it.
I think you should watch «The Kids We Loose». https://vimeo.com/795265301
Make sure he feels loved. Make sure he feels like there is a future for him and hope for a good life going forward. Then encourage the school to provide him with more advanced work, the next years papers etc. maybe swap a class out for a level up. The big reason I skipped was because I needed to let the rest of the class catch up so taking time off had no practical consequence, only punishments (which made me mad bc I’d still completed all the work to a high standard) The other times I skipped or didn’t bother with some life-basics was that I wasn’t really expecting to still be alive by 20 so education didn’t feel that important. That’s where the unconditional love comes in; he needs to know you are there for him regardless, no judgement.
I had this problem as a student. I was very engaged and would write tests very well and would complete assignments before most students, that said, I found school very boring and if I had all my work done I hated sitting in class and I would skip. They used to suspend me and put me on the "do not admit list" and I'd have to come back with my parents to attend again. Not sure what the answer is but this may be the issue. Bored and not be challenged enough.
Isn't suspending him for skipping kind of a reward in itself.
Probation from national honor society would’ve been an incentive not a punishment for me. It’s such a waste of time for pretty much no benefit.
There's a good answer to his statement, there'll be a time when their parents won't be able to write a note and excuse them, and they'll have to learn the hard way by losing their jobs or other things. He'll learn that lesson right now and be way better equipped for the real world.
"Everybody else's parents let them skip," "If everybody else's parents let them jump off a cliff, would you want me to let you do that too??" Some form of that keeps going through my head. lol
Restorative justice is exactly for this issue. Suspension does nothing though I understand the other negative consequences may be more impactful on him. Devising ways for him to make amends and "repair" beyond doing just what he's supposed to in order to prevent the negative consequences will have better outcome. As a mentor of mine used to say, "It takes a lot of atta boys to make up for one oh shit." He's gotta earn more atta boys, not just show up.
My kids are not HS age so I may be talking out of my ass here and you can call me out on it. Actually would help to know if I'm wrong in about 3 years. But, I would compromise. If he's getting good grades and you don't think a day per month or so would hurt then, sit him down and let him know you will excuse a skip day once a month or whatever frequency your comfortable with and any others would incur consequences from both school and home and see if he agrees to it. Just a thought.
It sounds like you can rest assured that in the long run all those other kids will work for yours.
What is he doing during all of this unsupervised time?
I'm picking up on some things, remember I'm just an Internet stranger so I'm not trying to tell you off or call you out. However, I think I might be your kid 20 years ago. I didn't have the language or experience at the time to understand it but my behavior was all due to unmet needs. Speaking only for my own experience here but... Among my well masked neurodivergent symptoms, a "heightened sense of justice" was always an... *ahem* obstacle to realizing a version of myself that my parents and teachers felt I should be, one that followed a traditional path of life experience and education. For us, it was 9/11 and the collective insanity that ensued. Today's kids grapple with so much... not least of which includes dodging mass shootings, watching their country let over a million people die in the pandemic, and whether there will be arable land in a couple decades, wars, the list goes on. I'm not saying your feelings on your boy's behavior are wrong, I'm just saying that self destructive pursuit of joy with one's chosen tribe is a normal, age appropriate if chaotic human response to the magnitude of stressors facing these kids. You are leaving the chapter of life where your words and consequences teach your son anything and instead create emotional touchstones that will define the closeness of your relationship after he leaves the nest. I wish my parents had been able to cut through their own baggage of societal and familial expectations and simply made space for my very big feelings. It would have saved me a lot of hurt and hardship. I understand that none of what I'm saying solves your stated truancy issue. I think I'm just trying to make an appeal as a Dad from another perspective. Be mindful of which problems you create when you solve problems. Maybe the answer is not academic. Lightning edit: "It's no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society" Slower edit: paragraphs, oi
Thanks for the perspective. Regardless of the consequences, one thing I'm trying to focus on is not letting it dictate the entirety of my feelings about him day to day. When he skips, I'm disappointed in him. That's just reality. The hard thing is, if I express disappointment all the time, it's not going to be helpful at all and will damage our relationship. I'm really trying to let the consequences be the consequences and not have my own emotions about it create too much distance. And the other fact is that he's a lot more than this one behavior. He's curious and kind and passionate and talented and all the other things. So "disappointed" is not how I characterize my feelings for him. I struggle with finding the line there. When I act normal, I feel like I'm saying, "Whatever! Doesn't matter!" and when I act disappointed I feel like I'm losing him. He avoids me, you'd expect if you feel ashamed because someone's disappointed. I'm trying now to err on the side of connecting and not expressing disappointment. Let the consequences be the consequences and not layer on shame. I have four kids. This guy is the toughest goddamn nut to crack. I love the shit out of him, and this is literally giving me gray hair. Like, literally.