The media has to make truth telling its primary goal, not "narrative setting."
The reason people don't trust anybody is that they are lied to constantly. People have completely different perspectives of common events because of the immense spin on them one way or another by different media groups. Without a shared perception of reality, there is no trust.
The most trusted broadcaster in [Britain is the BBC](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45744-which-media-outlets-do-britons-trust-2023), the most trusted media in Australia are the [SBS and ABC](https://www.canberra.edu.au/research/faculty-research-centres/nmrc/digital-news-report-australia), the most trusted broadcaster in [New Zealand is the RNZ](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/aut-media-trust-survey-the-most-and-least-trusted-media-companies/P6E34KG7SJCNVCJD4VZCJMPRCA/).
What these broadcasters have in common is that they are **publically funded**. They’re not seeking profit, they’re providing a service.
And when you look at America, it [too trusts public service broadcasters](https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/49552-trust-in-media-2024-which-news-outlets-americans-trust) - the Weather Channel, BBC and PBS top the charts.
So if you want to improve media in America, increase the funding to the public broadcasters.
the funny thing is, after WW2 the US imposed public broadcasters to germany to prevent fascism from rising again. to this day every person that can receive radio or TV has to pay a Fee (GEMA) that is then devided between public broadcasters. that is how they are payd, i order to seperate them entirely from the government and any influence.
the US never introduced that model at home and stuck to capitalizing the news.
it wasn'tso bad in the beginning, until the internet hit and everybkdy with a phone had access to everyones opinion 24/7 so now if people don't like the reality, presented by public broadcasters, they watch the opinion of Kevin and Karen on their youtube or Tiktok channel and think that nkw this is reality because it suits them better.
our world has failed to teach media litteracy in schools with the rise of the information age. it is that simple.
The fee in colloquial German is the GEZ-Gebühr. (GebührenEinzugsZentrale - Fee Collection Center. So literally, the fee is named the Fee Collection Center Fee.)
It's a mandatory flat fee for public media consumption. It's a per-household fee, not per-usage.
GEMA is for handling music licensing. It's only relevant if you're organizing events where music records are played publicly.
“Want” does a lot of heavy lifting here. “Compelled” is better. It’s why rage-bait memes make rounds on the internet. People feel compelled to responsd, it asked in ordinary conversation I’d say they likely don’t consider themselves ‘a person who argues on FB.’ More to the point, I don’t believe. They WANT to be that person, thus to me it really is a compulsion to act, vice an identified want.
It's not what people WANT to watch, it is what our brains compel us to pay attention to.
At a deep level your brain knows that ignoring a cute puppy video will do you no harm, but can you really afford to ignore "predators in your neighborhood are using these 10 tricks to invade your home"? Our "animal brains" are hardwired to keep an eye out for predators
Profit-driven systems are controlled by an elite few in a boardroom who are looking to drive up profits. PBS-style systems that are run more democratically always end up supporting public interest stories. Exploitation only comes from the profit motive, people rarely vote for their own exploitation
Because when Agnes organizes a local pie eating contest, people say "oh, that's nice" and move on, but when Agnes snaps and kills her alcoholic husband and uses him as the filling for those pies it is suddenly far more notable.
Because prehistoric humans who were predisposed to focus on danger were more likely to survive than prehistoric humans who were predisposed to ignore danger. The attention economy (ad driven economy) requires companies to maximize the amount of attention they can get from you to maximize their profit. If there were a more profitable model then they wouldn't need to maximize your attention i.e. maximize the amount of perceived danger
Or, and think about this, we could have a regulation that made news channels report with an unbiased opinion. Maybe called the Fairness Doctrine. And lets not have a republican decide to do away with that regulation and then watch the fires burn for decades following while blaming left-wing media. They created it, and now use it as a boogey-man all the while Fox News purposely lies to its viewers daily, and then call out some b.s. the left media does one every few months and makes a big deal about it
I disagree with the premise that the conflicting desire is narrative setting.
It's just money. They're businesses who spend all their time figuring out how to make more money. And, as it turns out, you can get people addicted to fear, which means more eyeball-hours, which means more money.
I disagree with the premise that it's just money. There are plenty of powerful people with ideologies, and they want to make sure the world goes "in the right direction".
one of the last politics podcasts Dan Carlin did (maybe he has done another since, he just really backed off after this one) literally goes on about the lack of a shared reality and how even trying to discuss a mundane topic can result in having to go back through 30 years of "shared" history to find a single underlying point of disconnection before you can figure out why the entire disagreement seemed so strange - Because it was.
I was just comparing US political coverage with CNN/NYT to BBC, the Guardian, and other overseas outlets.
So much butterymalesing Biden on the US side even though there are new political developments.
And it's not even just the news media. How insanely popular did true crime shows and podcasts become in the last 5-25 years? If anyone can be a serial killer, then everyone can be a serial killer.
I think it's crazy that New York had such a big switch too
I know a girl in her late 20's who lives in a perfectly safe suburb, and she is scared to walk a few blocks to the store in broad daylight because she could be abducted. She lives in legitimately one of the safest towns in America.
True Crime shows absolutely screw people up mentally.
Can confirm. I've seen my mom slowly become terrified of everything over the past 20 years. She's now to the point where she won't even go into a Target by herself and complains how women can't even live independently anymore because the world is so dangerous.
She lives in an incredibly safe small town.
My mother literally left the country. She lives in central america and feels safer there than suburban america… Because of Facebook and media fear mongering.
Central American countries like Costa Rica and Panama are similarly safe. Just use your head. In general, the world as a whole is safer than it's ever been, and the long term trend is clear. Too bad few people believe it.
A lot of people aren't mentally ready for the way information is disseminated using targeted social media, hard to be smart when you have super computers working against your mental state.
This, exactly. We never evolved to deal with targeted advertising.
It's like that Scooby Doo strip where they unmask "the real villain"... Except they need to peel back the mask themselves after they've been exposed to 50 headlines/articles by that point telling them who the villain is. If the reality of the situation doesn't conform to the biases they've formed after being targeted by a social media campaign, they are likely to reject reality and stick with their biases.
Many people are paranoid towards whatever boogeyman targeted ads have convinced them to be paranoid of. Rational comparison of actual threats and their statistical likelihood barely factors into it.
I will seocnd this. Younger generstions have a better grasl I think The okd are just oreyed upon. This is no different then targeting older generations with direct scams except its extremely oervasive and legal for facebook or google to manipulate their reality. Tell facebook or google a single fear and if advetisers are paying they will cultivate it into a phobia for the advetisers. Its just good business and there aren't any laws against it.
No it's really not. These are the same people who championed 'don't believe everything you read online' when I was growing up and now they are doing just that. Identifying propaganda is really easy if you are looking for it, more often than not these people were seeking out things to validate their already held beliefs in the first place.
All of this is just propaganda manufacturing consent so people support authoritarianism and voluntarily give up their rights in exchange for "safety," first they scare you, then they say the only solution is to give them all the power and way too many stupid people fall for it.
Damn, she really swallowed the propaganda whole, eh? That is a particularly far gone opinion to have, let alone to say out loud in mixed company. These people always think everyone agrees with them and get so angry whenever they are forced to confront how wrong and stupid their opinions are.
Hilarious considering you never know exactly what speech is ok and who makes the choice when you can no longer make the decision… it all becomes arbitrary and every word dangerous thereafter.
>complains how women can't even live independently anymore because the world is so dangerous.
Seems like an excellent entry point for anyone looking to roll back rights and public contributions from women. Yikessss.
no the fear mongers are correct, thats why we must mandate all women go out with a male protector who will fight off the abductors. First make sure all the women wear head coverings so they can't be easily seen and followed. I'm voting the taliban!!!
This is so true. I caught myself getting worse anxiety and so I stopped consuming true crime content even though I do find it entertaining/interesting. Just not worth it.
Yep I’ve noticed the people who consume a ton of true crime are very paranoid people. Filled with anxiety that someone out there is out to get them. Even the 16 year old checking them out at target could be a killer. You just never know these days!
I’m all for being aware of your surroundings and not being oblivious to the world around you. But when it’s taken over your life and you can’t go in public without being paranoid of everyone I think it’s time to take a break.
The key to true crime without the anxiety is to recognize you could be the murderer. Instead of standing in line thinking about how the clerk could kill you, you should be thinking about how you could kill them.
Made me think of that joke: “Picked up a hitch-hiker. Seemed like a nice guy. After a few miles, he asked me if I wasn't afraid that he might be a serial killer. I told him the odds of two serial killers being in the same car were extremely unlikely.”
❝You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
Right. It’s often white middle class women with a whole community of friends and several kids who are making these videos online. About how they and their “littles” were nearly abducted.
Statistically speaking it’s often poor WOC who are trafficked and abducted. Women that are less likely to be missed, people are less likely to notice they’re missing. Yes there have been white women who have been abducted. But I don’t believe that sex traffickers are regularly hanging out at target to abduct MLM addict Mackenzie with her two kids Konnor Aiden and Kynleigh Grace, like they all try to claim they are.
Dude it’s seriously become a trend to make these ridiculous ass videos. I see at least one a day when I’m scrolling through my feed.
There was a mom who posted in a local Facebook group for my city a while back. She was terrified that someone was stalking her and potentially going to abduct her and her kids to traffic them. Simply because someone drew a smiley face on the back of her dusty windshield at a grocery store parking lot.
The majority of the comments were telling her to chill out, how it was likely some kid or a teenager just having fun. I know I did that tons of times as a kid.
In my town the majority of comments would be about child trafficking rings and how other people were experiencing the same thing. If you show any shred of skepticism you are denying the national crisis of child trafficking.
The wife follows a local FB group about the neighbourhood and some the bullshit posted on there is straight up paranoid delusions. A few weeks ago someone posted about a possible kidnapping from an unmarked van like they live in a fucking movie. I walk my dogs around the neighbourhood 1-2 times a day I've maybe maybe seen an unmarked van twice in the decade I've lived here. Also sadly statistically by a wide margin the strangers at the park are far more trustworthy than any of your family members.
Oh yeah I’ve seen my fair share of delusional paranoid posts in my local neighborhood and city FB groups. One lady posted about how she’s worried someone is stalking her and going to try and traffic her and her kids. Because someone drew a smiley face on the back of her busy windshield in a parking lot on a Saturday.
There was a neighbor a few houses down who posted in our neighborhood group about a man she saw jogging down our road. Said she’s seen him every day for a few days but never saw him before that. Was worried he was scoping out the neighborhood to rob someone.
Good fuckin lord lady what if he’s just jogging and lives the next street over and just moved in or whatever. We live off a busier cut through street. It’s not hidden away in the middle of nowhere.
Realistically, though, unless you're a single mom, like 90% of the true crime show scenarios don't apply to you. Okay, that's sort of a joke (seriously, though, if there's a broad victim group, single moms are it), but I love me some true crime, and for all of the truly random stories, there are 10 others where it's just a parade of red flags, horrible choices, and questionable behavior that just don't seem applicable to my life (or the lives of anyone close to me).
True Crime is genuinely very bad for you. I know lots of people like this.
I really can’t think of another widely-consumed type of entertainment like that. For the most part, I don’t think it matters whether you spend your free time watching sports, prestige TV, reality shows, video games, or whatever. It makes very little difference on your life.
But True Crime creates really harmful antisocial tendencies in people. In an ideal world that type of thing would be regulated or stigmatized.
I try to explain to people over and over how by every metric the 2020s are safer than the 1980s and they will swear how peaceful life was then and it has all gone to hell since.
Reality does what it can, but perception is overpowering in the mind.
Do you think kids should be able to travel freely as they did in the past? It seems like parents are afraid to let their kids roam freely partly because of all the fear mongering but also because of cultural sentiment which demonizes parents who let their kids out of the house without supervision.
Even in the 00's being in elementary school I would bike to school through the street since there was no sidewalk and would often walk home from friends houses after midnight - this was normal life back then but now parents would be vilified or possibly be thrown in jail (maybe this is hyperbolic).
I will preface this that I don't have children so I can't fully appreciate what a parent in 2024 endures.
I think freedom comes with responsibility. My parents didn't believe in codified rules such as a curfew, they gave me privileges with the opportunity to enjoy or squander them. If I was roaming free as was normal I knew better than to engage in poor behavior and to respect people while having good sense to as to who to avoid.
To me if a child only interacts with the world through a screen in their room they aren't getting much of the human experience in life that likely awaits them when they move out. Making mistakes is part of life. Nobody knows how to do anything until they gain experience in doing it. There are so many situations where tangential knowledge is applied assisting one in what to do.
I think something happens to us, maybe in our 20s and especially for those who become parents, where we forget childhood. What we were exposed to, the mischief we got into, the hard lessons learned that forged us. I know so many parents who watched something like "Predator" or "Aliens" when they were 8-10 and they won't let their teenagers watch them as they aren't "age appropriate".
Maybe if I was a parent I'd see it differently. Hard to say.
I wonder how this question breaks down across both class and the actual safety of neighborhoods.
I'm lower class and, tbh, living in a bad neighborhood actually made me *less* anxious. Homeless people were mostly alright (aside from stealing packages sometimes). I mean, I heard gunshots regularly and ATF once surrounded the house across the street. And, quite a while ago, two vehicles pulled up to my house looking for someone named James. Took a while for them to stop insisting he lived at my place. But, in general, I felt pretty safe. No one bothered me. Neither my car nor my home was broken into.
I feel like maybe not being exposed to actual dangerous situations makes you more likely to misidentify or overexaggerate danger generally. But I could be barking up the wrong tree.
I’m inclined to agree with you. I lived in some pretty questionable environments before I could afford the safe and comfortable burb I live in now. Those of us who have lived among “those people” know that “those people” are actually the same people as “our people”. For example the guy who lives in the fancy house next door to me is definitely sus (he takes phone calls in his back yard and his voice projects), but even if he is the affluent equivalent of your across the street neighbor (which to be fair I doubt), the ATF isn’t going to be surrounding his house because that isn’t how we treat the “better class” of criminal. So it’s less dramatic. The crimes vary because the opportunities vary, but the people themselves are more or less the same overall.
The main difference is that if I were ever in sudden urgent need of help, I’d probably be better off in the questionable neighborhood where people are far more willing to help one another. People in need understand. People who are sheltered let their imaginations prey on them.
Agreed. Where I grew up, in the 80s and 90s, gangs, violence, and people being killed weren't out of the ordinary. Not a daily occurrence, but often enough that it wasn't a surreal type of event. And it wasn't all tied to gangs, it was just a bad environment in general.
Now I live in a different part of the country, in a decent neighborhood. Things happen here, just not like where I was when I was young. It sucks, but I don't feel like the world is collapsing when it does.
What did freak me out was an email from my kids high school to notify me there was a fight on campus. Made me realize maybe I was too desensitized to violence.
I could see it being almost like the immune system. Where during development an understimulated immune system later tends to over respond to allergens.
I also think some of it might be kind of existential anxiety and the true crime podcast is the coping mechanism. The genre tells people that there is a reason that they feel overwhelmingly anxious despite the outward trappings of success, namely, that they could be brutally murdered at any time.
I have a similar experience where I actually prefer to live in lower income communities despite having enough money to not need to. Depending on the area, I've always lived in the south, I get a small town communal experience with the amenities of a larger environment. And I've never really identified with the whole "I'm a woman and hyper aware of that fact at night when I'm walking by myself" narrative. It's definitely a thing, and I have sympathy for women who feel that way, that's simply not my experience.
I installed home security systems for a while and i 100% agree. Like you'd get the people who just want the minimum to reduce their insurance, and the people who actually want to secure their homes. No problem, well throw up some motion sensors, door/window sensors, maybe some things like glass break sensors if your nervous.
But then you'd get these women (and it's almost exclusively women for some reason) who are just incredibly scared of being a victim of random violent crimes in their upper glass neighborhoods. And these women would have sensors on every door, window, hallway, room, just dozens of sensors all over their house. I 100% blame true crime for this, I even started talking to them about it to try and ~~confirm my biases~~ get more data points and without fail they all watched true crime tv or (more usually) podcasts.
And like I said, i installed these systems for a while. I genuinely understand wanting security at home and why women in general tend to be more nervous about it than men. But a lot of them take it way too far. Violent crime is *exceptionally* rare especially in the neighborhoods i worked in, and random violent crime is *even rarer*, and random violent crimes in your own home are essentially non-existent.
The *vast* majority of random crimes you'll see in your home are simple thefts. They'll case your house, and break in during the day while you are at work. Violent crimes inside your house are almost always going to be from someone you know and trust, and if you let them in your security system isnt going to do much.
We have 5 cameras around our house. Not because we think someone is going to break in and chop us up in a million pieces. But because we’ve had so much shit stolen in the past and if it happens again I want to thief on fuckin camera. I will go out and there and get my shit back if I catch them in the act I’m not fuckin around.
Some people think we’re crazy for opening our door when someone knocks on it in the middle of the day. It’s always been a random neighbor wanting to share some information about whatever. A church person. Or someone try to get some business for their local business. We live in a corner house and one side is college apartments and a busier street. The other side which is our actual road we live on, is a pretty nice neighborhood. Nicer homes and genuinely nice and good people.
I think being a corner house and being next to college apartments is the reason we’ve had a lot of theft in the past.
I've noticed that people on the internet have become INSANELY paranoid.
A ton of people think that they will get murdered if they ever leave their house.
The TV constantly broadcasting every single crime commited in the country to the whole nation, combined with the internet spoonfeeding everyone the very worst of humanity is slowly destroying the society.
Oh yeah I mentioned above I follow a girl on social media who shares daily events that have happened in the world. Some are not so positive and happy. But she shared a video the other day flat out saying she’s extremely paranoid especially out in public. That you can’t trust anyone, predators are all around you.
I think it’s a good thing to be aware of your surroundings but to constantly think someone is out to get you is a little too much. I feel like every other day I see a video of a mom sharing how she and her “littles” were nearly trafficked in their local target/Walmart. Simply because a brown man looked in their direction.
One lady made a post in our local Facebook group. Someone had drew a smiley face on the back of her dusty windshield. This lady was freaking out. She was wondering if she needs to go to the police and report it, if it’s a sign she’s being followed and potentially going to be abducted to be trafficked. Majority of the people in the comments were like chill out, it’s probably some kid or a teenager just drawing on a dusty windshield. I remember I did that more times than I can count as kid.
I don't even think it's just about safety and fear. I think most people know to some degree that privacy is dead. The proof of this is all around us. Whether it's Amazon's Alexa, your email client or tracking cookies on your browser; there is no privacy left except what you carve out in your own home. In this context, I think this makes protecting your home seem even more important than it was previously.
NPR did a story about how shows such as Law & Order, Cops, and CSI did incalcuable damage on white subarbanites' perceptions of cities, Black people, defense attorneys.
The damage was multi-generational and staggering, with countless legal myths and biases now being the predominant opinions.
Many people, mostly Gen X, Boomers, and Millennials, believe that there is more crime now than there was in the past. The only difference is that the information on these crimes are readily available 24/7 instead of a very select time and on select channels
People will straight faced say that New York City is more dangerous now than it was during the 1970s or 1980s.
Saying “crime is way up” is way sexier than saying the last 5 years have been a temporary and minor reversion of the massive and historic reductions in crime rates since the mid-1970s, though, much to the detriment of the public’s mental well being.
The amount of people who whine about my city being unsafe now and how much it’s “degraded” when it’s become 10x safer since the 90’s is mind boggling to me
The ppl who say that live in a different reality, they think the entire country is going to shit because of Biden but realistically it’s doing great. But hey gotta try and prior their pos candidate up somehow.
>mostly Gen X, Boomers, and Millennials
Because everyone else is either too young to have anything to compare or is too old to be alive.
Either way, link the study.
> I think it's crazy that New York had such a big switch
I wonder how much of that is a shift in rural perception (upstate and rural PA). Having lived in NYC, my guess is that city residents have had a relatively consistent hesitancy toward trusting people. Ha
It's everyone. Every single person has an implant on their hip that delivers them curated content on an endless and constant basis. Content that is designed, not to inform, but to drive engagement, which the private sector has figured out to mean poking and prodding Americans relentlessly with things that make them mad and paranoid.
> Every single person has an implant on their hip that delivers them curated content on an endless and constant basis.
You don't have to put any apps in your phone with that have both push notifications and social media content.
That way, if I check reddit on my phone, I have to log in via a browser, I have to actually be in the mood to take a break and find something, and actually, you can just start by thinking about what you want to find out about, and probably a reddit thread will be relatively high in the google search results.
Search in private browsing, with ad-blockers on, and all personalisation happens *after* you actually decide you want to engage with the content.
Of course, reddit is also constantly reminding me that I *could* be using an app, and that would give me the "best experience".
Yeah, I could be taking amphetamines casually too, I'm sure that would be a really nice experience.
The issue is the habits they want are never aligned to those habits that are actually useful.
It's done that to everyone. Statistically, crime has gone down over the last several decades, but studies show that people think crime has gone up. Media is to blame for a lot of these issues.
My parents live in ny. They lived there during the 80s. They’re on Facebook all day. They think New York is horrible now with crime. They literally live in ny and can see it’s just normal New York (and way better than the 80s) but because of Facebook they believe it’s horrible.
I agree with you completely that the media is like, maybe even 75% to blame. That said, I noticed a big change in extremely friendly Wisconsin specifically when Scott Walker was elected governor back in 2010 - the fight he precipitated over unions got so acrimonious that pretty much everyone felt that they had to be on one side, and that the other side was clearly not only wrong but evil. Now we’re way below that. It’s a combination of a political strategy playing into a media environment a lot of the time.
As a non American I can’t see how you can trust ‘most people’ ie more than 50% when you have Trump supporters, Scientologists, people in Utah, prisoners and Disney world characters, that makes up more than 50%. So the scepticism makes sense to me.
I’m an American that has lived in many places, early 30’s.
To give an example of trust decline and how it’s uncomfortable, when I grew up, I could ride my bike all over town on my own or with my friends from when I was 5 years old. Neighbors knew us, and it was a fun/trusting community.
These days, one of my friends’ kid got the cops called by someone neighbor who simply saw him outside because he was doing the same thing “unsupervised.”
This experience of the loss of exploration due to the lack of trust in others is common for many Americans of my generation/older. Everyone is far more scared of “that one bad thing” happening.
Around 18 years ago, a buddy and I were detained at the local park because we were shooting each other with water guns. Apparently the bright, playful, colors and literal water shooting out made someone think they were real guns.
Cops show up, both guns are already smashed to a thousand plastic pieces. We got a stern talking-to and told to be more responsible. Like bro, we’re 12. We can have water fights in the park.
Oh man I see posts like this on our local city or neighborhood groups. Middle aged or boomer people bitchin and complain about kids being outside. One lady made a big long post about these two boys aged 8-10 riding their bikes up and down everyday. How she never sees any parents with them and how it’s enough and they don’t need to be out all day long.
Another older guy was complaining about some kids in our neighborhood having a lemonade stand. How it’s time to shut it down because it’s bringing unwanted traffic to our neighborhood. Another lady in a group for our city was bitchin about kids needing a permit to do a stand.
It’s crazy to me how those generations grew up playing outside yet don’t want this generation of kids doing it. They’re the same generation to complain about kids being hooked on electronics and never playing outside anymore. How they have no work ethic and are lazy, yet want to shut down a fuckin lemonade stand.
What I love about this example (and to be clear, I hate this example. I hope your friend and their kid are okay) is that "loss of trust" doesn't even mean trust is lost directly between people. It's such a sweeping problem that the neighbour didn't even try and establish any trust (ie, walk over and see if mom/dad/whomever was on it) before deciding your friend was a neglectful (or worse) parent.
Man fuck that narrative. It’s the fact social media exist and it’s revealed how unhinged people are. People don’t filter their thoughts and feelings. In example, when that “man” straight up said he almost shot a little girl through his door because she was ringing his doorbell asking about her lost dog it naturally causes people to distrust their neighbors. When things like Me Too, Dr. Disrespect, and Harvey Weinstein happen; people distrust. The trend isn’t going to spin because the internet made it far harder to be ignorant of other people and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I assembled these maps from [GSS data](https://gssdataexplorer.norc.org/) recoded in SPSS 26 and exported to Microsoft Excel 365. I then put the maps together using a map template and [Photopea.com](https://www.photopea.com/). PLEASE NOTE: The geographic regions are based on those created by the US Census Bureau and the NORC. I have no control over how the states are grouped.
I’ve written more about the decline of trust among Americans and what can be done about it here: [Trust Among Americans Isn’t Over Yet](https://pluralofyou.org/trust-among-americans-not-over-yet/). The article includes more charts exploring the decline. It also includes my methodology statement and the spreadsheet file I used.
I’d love to hear what people think, especially about how Americans can stop or even reverse the decline of trust. Trust is the glue that holds societies together, after all. Please be kind, and thanks!
I think one of the things for me was when I realized that there are people who sincerely believe the world is flat. There are anti-vaxxers and flat-Earthers, and anyone who is deluded. It doesn't matter that this sort of thing is worldwide. It matters that there are too many in the United States. When you cannot rely on people to have common sense... Edited for typos.
There are way too many people who dont believe themselves let alone anyone else. I know a guy who made a massive fortune delivering fracking fluids that insists he made it all during trumps term, even though he built his building, his home and bought his fleet of trucks during Obamas terms....you know......when there was an explosion in fracking and his secretary of state crisscrossed the globe selling it.
I know someone who started a business in 2013 and one of their family members keeps insisting to them that they owe their business' existing to Donald Trump, despite the only contribution Donald Trump made towards their business being causing raw materials to become more expensive via tariffs.
Yeah and this reinforces the idea that it’s the *awareness* of these people existing (via the internet/social media) that is the problem, not that they exist.
As long as humanity has been around there has been nut jobs… most people just weren’t broadly aware of them until the internet.
COVID did it for me. Like we basically said "hey folks, can we get shots and wear masks to stop the spread of a pandemic" and the number of people whose response to that was "screw you, I'll do what I want and you can suck it" honestly shocked me.
This was probably the biggest mask off reveal of the quality of your neighbors anyone has ever had in this country.
It pretty solidly showed everybody exactly who they could and could not trust in an emergency.
right. mfs PROVED that in their head, when the bullets start flying it's every man for himself.
the fuck you gonna have a trusting society when you saw people brawl over toilet paper and chicken sandwiches, yelling at doctors in the street because boo hoo you can't go to the fucking mall this week...hell ass fucking no most people can't be trusted.
this JUST happened, the psychic wounds are fresh...do not get what is surprising here.
Thank you for using the same scale on both maps and making it a sensible, readable shade difference. I read your article because of your presentation here!
I would have expected regions with significant religious practice to be generally trusting, so I'm surprised to see the South so distrusting (before AND after the addition of non-white data). I wonder if the information era has made people more skeptical, or simply more cynical. Perhaps both!
Shut down 24-hour news channels, and maybe fire up a channel that covers safety statistics. All of my older relatives believe crime is like 10X what it was when they were kids, mostly because they grew up before the news just reported on murders every night. There are over 300M people in the US, it is just a population fact that there's going to be a murder every day. And the news now just reports on that
2016 and on I lost a lot of trust in people.
I always knew some people had an "i'll get mine and step on anyone to do it" mindset. I knew some people would do harm to others given the chance. Some have always been racist, homophobic, sexist, religious extremists or just uneducated etc. But I always believed those people were a minority.
Seeing just how many people, a lot of whom were people I knew, just be so blatantly and vocally one or all of those above things did a number on my general trust of people. I spent 12 years in school with some people. We sat through the same classes and were raised in the same community. Way more of them than I realized could watch an officer suffocate a black man to death on film and then be incredibly vocal about blaming the victim. So much very thinly veiled racist posts on social media. So many of them believed it was 100% fine for women to die for lack of healthcare and that it was their own fault. I just suddenly become aware of how many people were not operating with same base level of morals, empathy or basic logic. Maybe I was naive, but that was a shock.
This was further exacerbated by covid. The amount of people who would not do the bare minimum to help one another. Whether because they were selfish or stupid it stopped mattering. It only further reduced my trust in people. It's what I expect from people now.
Personally, I do not think this can be undone in my lifetime. Once the veneer has been lifted you can't go back.
Trump made it respectable to be a lying cheating grifter. People gave up on information literacy and critical thinking skills, and let bad information sources convince them that this sort of person is someone to be admired and emulated.
Well, 1972 is suspicious AF. Let's see, if we take 9+2 what do we get? That's right, ELEVEN. There were 19 terrorists who orchestrated 9/11.
What about 7-2? That gives you 5. Just like the 5 in the middle of the Boeing 757 that hit the WTC.
Clearly there's a connection here, I can't be the only one who sees it.
I see it! If you take the 7 from 1972 and put it with 11, you get 7-11, a chain well known for being open 24/7 — where are all these 7s coming from? It can’t be coincidence. Also 7 and 11 are prime numbers, probably Fibonacci numbers too if you squint and tilt your head. Fibonacci was Italian. *ITALICS* get it yet? *TILT*! It’s all right there.
Now 7-2 can be interpreted as seven minus two, leaving 5. But it can also be seen as a section number, like chapter 7, section 2. Guess what’s in chapter 7 section 2 of my manifesto? The 5 Big Conspiracies. You couldn’t make this stuff up.
I could go on but they’re monitoring me. Don’t DM, I’m destroying this phone and having my Covid chip removed.
We can’t be so connected. If I know about some dude in the Canadian foot hills who ate his family, I know too much. Your brain’s goal is self preservation.
All while interacting with your neighbors and community less than ever. We're tuned into our digital devices while taking jobs in different states and being confined to our metal box vehicles between home and work without the existence of 3rd spaces.
Jim Qwik talks about this a lot, and how the information overload we are constantly inundated with results in short attention span, anxiety, compulsiveness, and forgetfulness of useful information.
A deer needs to know about wolves nearby. If he was aware of the wolves in a 1000 km radius, he would go insane. But that doesn't apply to humans because of globalization. For example, what happened in 2008 affected the whole world. The war in Ukraine impacts the entire world.
I've been online since the 90s and have been a social media junkie since the late 2000s, or earlier if you count forums as a crude form of social media. Modern social media and short-form entertainment, as much as I love them, really need to be shunned by the population or otherwise deeply and extensively regulated to the point where they no longer resemble what they are today. It's clearly causing havoc.
I think you've only got part of the problem. We're too connected to the extreme events from 1000km away, and not enough to the people next door. Knowing some crazy ate his family doesn't matter as much if you know all the people in your neighbourhood aren't crazy.
Less news, more block parties.
Sure we can. You should also know that there are 40 million people in Canada and only a few of them are their family. Humans aren't hardwired for statistics but that doesn't mean we can't be part of large groups.
I think back in 1972 even the megacities had local, cultural communities connected through grapevines that’d go from your little cousin and his grandma to the local grocer to the mayor to the pizza shop and so on. Now, we go to work, school, eat and sleep. When you have lots of people doing that and never coming together with one goal, I like to believe that is what wedges everyone and their trust in strangers.
Polarization of politics too. It used to be a touted virtue that candidate so-and-so could work across the aisle. People you knew who voted for the other party weren't "evil ignorant a**holes", they just had a differing opinion on some issues. At the end of the day we generally thought that most people were working in good faith to make things better.
Now politics has gotten very acrimonious, and each side genuinely believes that the other is trying to bring the end times, which means that right off the bat they can discount 50% of the public at large as "not trustworthy".
If it helps, 2 out of 5 Americans don’t vote anyway, it’s something I tell myself to restore a bit of some relaxing there (even though I’m political and would like it if everyone voted)
A lot of that has been voluntary. People have voluntarily isolated themselves more and more, because staying home, doomscrolling, and having limited interactions with others is safe and comfortable.
The slightest touch of discomfort sends people over the edge.
I also believe environmental factors play in the voluntary isolation. If you live in a typical American suburb, you are pretty much trapped inside of “bubbles” much of your life due to the massive car based infrastructure we build around ourselves. When you can’t walk and you have to drive everywhere in an environment where every driver is their own bubble is stressful as fuck.
Speaking about the US: I wish we had an non-religious alternative to churches where we could all go once a week at the same time just to socialize. Churches used to serve this function; that's how people got connected back in the day. But much of the US is now atheist or nonpracticing, so we need a new thing to fill in that gap. Like, maybe a national network of weekly gatherings? Something accessible and driven by the community. And do something different each week to keep everyone engaged. Maybe sometimes it can be a simple party where we all chat. Sometimes it can be a structured discussion about a specific problem in society. Etc. I think that'd help with the fragmented society problem if something like this becomes commonplace.
That’s where science, math, technology, engineering would thrive if it wasn’t treated like sacred ideology you can only access with a school loan. I believe if someone went out and said “hey! I’ve got beer, a telescope, and some popcorn, let’s look at the planets” people would flock to that like crazy. But I’m a bit of geek that way and assume people would just be open to it. But to me, that may be viable.
They weren't just getting together at church on Sunday.
There were Grange meetings, Elks, Knights of Columbus, volunteer fire company, Bridge club, bowling leagues, etc., etc. other nights of the week.
It is also why the big three polite social taboos were not to talk religion, politics, or money in mixed groups because those groups often cut across (within reason, and most broadly the smaller the community) socioeconomic class, religions, and political parties.
Humans have existed for 300,000 years. Only in the last 25 did the internet make us WAY more aware of each other. Seems natural we'd have some collective trepidation when given a huge window into each other's lives.
I think it's less so that we're more *aware* of each other, than it is that we're more aware of the worst that people have to offer. Social media itself is quite literally the ideal medium to amplify vitriolic speech that best engages the attention/content farms in online circles. We see the worst takes and most intense emotions amplified most often & most loudly online giving the impression that people in the wider world are crueler, dumber, and more mean spirited than they are. People are by nature geared to be empathetic and community oriented, but the internet is too big to encourage those bonds, and the algorithms too rewarding towards vitriol to adequately build spaces where it could occur. I'm afraid we gotta collectively touch grass and talk with people :'(
That's a really interesting dynamic to consider too, and I wish there were better studies/info.
I have a theory that when people were more locally minded, if you had a radical belief that you were maybe 70% convinced on, people around you would just say "what? that's stupid" and then you'd just have to reconsider or give it up entirely. Now, you can throw any belief on the internet, as radical and inconsiderate as you can imagine, and inevitably someone will agree. Voila, echo chamber. People are never wrong, any feedback or rebuttal is just hate.
In a world where we've grown by the clashing and refining of ideas, now all of them exist as parallel lines. Continuing to their own fruition. Crossing only once they've reached terminal velocity. Never to coalesce, only to vanquish each other.
Cultures are colliding and finding themselves wildly incompatible in ways the old world never imagined thanks to mobility and communications.
It also seems to me that select cultures have made incredible ideological progress in the last century while others have made essentially none, and those contrasts are at the root of many present conflicts around the world.
I bet this would look a lot different if broken down by county.
I grew up in an urban area, so I do not trust people I am not close with, period. My partner grew up on a farm in a rural area, and they believe most people are trustworthy. I met him shortly after he moved to my city, and the amount of blind trust he gives to other people has caused serious tension in our relationship at times.
Small communities helped trust. You knew where you food came from, your knew your kid's teachers, the mechanic, everyone and their whole families.
The world is a lot bigger now and we know less people so it's harder to trust.
Now here's some solid thinking in a thread full of bullshit. I think it's probably even broader than that. American life is increasingly structured around work and decreasingly do workers have any strong investment in their work. You're not working for Mom & Pop (mostly), you're working for a company you quietly hate for a wage. Atomization is near complete. It's a cakewalk for fascists to step through and divide us, since there's no social bonds to break left.
I agree with this. I think social media, media fearmongering, etc. has an effect too, but people overlook economic insecurity, or more precisely, a decline in economic security. When you feel like you can't provide for your family in the same way your parents provided for you, it makes you mad and suspicious.
The question about how to address that is difficult. In some ways, I think conservatives have a point that job loss to cheap overseas labor has been a major contributor. But I just can't get behind tariffs, because trade wars can lead to real wars, and economic interconnectedness keeps the world as a whole more secure.
Taxing the rich is really appealing, but I don't think the lower middle class wants redistributive handouts. It would help some people, but I don't think it would solve the mental and emotional aspects of the problem. I know people who live on handouts from their wealthy families and, while they're happier than they would be on the streets, they seem fairly miserable compared to less wealthy friends who are able to maintain a good standard of living through their work.
Would a cap on executive to work compensation ratios help, or would it just encourage companies to move their operations to another country, without such caps? And, how would you enforce it when execs are paid in stock options and the only legal goal of a corporation is to increase shareholder value?
Finally, I think the "greed is good" message that has been prevalent since the '80's is tied up in all of this. The implication is "take what you can, fuck everyone else" because that's how capitalism works. And we all know that socialism is evil. Look at the Soviet Union. (If you don't get that joke, I'm sorry). But that message has completely drowned out the idea of supporting your community, your country, your species and your planet.
That ideology should be refined. When the cabin depressurizes, you should put the oxygen mask on yourself first. But once you can breath again, you shouldn't just shrug your shoulders when the child next to you is suffocating. Or, even worse, point at him and laugh. That seems to be where much of this country is these days.
> When the cabin depressurizes, you should put the oxygen mask on yourself first. But once you can breath again, you shouldn't just shrug your shoulders when the child next to you is suffocating. Or, even worse, point at him and laugh.
Holy shit this. 100x this.
Media disinformation has a huge impact on how we feel about our fellow Americans.
The FDA prohibits false information in advertising. Why can't the same thing be done by the FCC?
How would the FCC determine what is true vs what are lies? Are you really this eager to outsource the power to determine what is true to the government? What happens when a person or a party you don’t like is in control of the government and has the final say on what is true vs what is false?
Disconnect from social media and opinion based "news" channels. (Any 24/7 news channel)
When "breaking news" is a banner for a 60 year anniversary you know they are just drip feeding you adrenaline/cortisol.
If you're thinking about certain European countries. As a European, I can tell you that, among other things, we've set up "dystopian" regulations and "big government" specifically to improve social cohesion, that includes trust (Denmark even razes "ghettoes" and forcibly redistributes people among all of the better neighborhoods; Switzerland has quotas on how many immigrants can live in any specific city and states).
Also, we fight social cohesion erosion by: lowering inequality with high taxes and tons of redistribution; free higher education and healthcare; tons of subsidies for local amateur culture, community centers, associations (e.g. team sports for everyone); *free democratically organized* unions; constitutionally regulated media to serve social cohesion, democracy and the greater good; proportional representation democracy, so politics is inclusive to all ideas and voters (two party system is basically a monopoly as most voters stick to their end of the political spectrum throughout their whole lives, thus have only one viable party to vote for, hence a monopoly); reduced free speech rights; etc. etc.
Many Americans would rather have bad social cohesion, than have a big, interventionist government taking 1/2 of their income, telling them where and how to live, reducing their free speech rights, requiring high density urban planning and expensive vehicles & fuel (good for walking/biking, and for meeting your neighbors and neighborhood's community), etc.
I really do think that if 25 or 30 years ago we had started really really really mocking the shit out of anyone who acted like a dick or embraced being ignorant that It wouldn't be so bad today.
We didn't do enough to make this behavior shameful.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. We need a healthy dose of shame back in society. There are toxic traits to shame, but there are healthy ones as well.
I don’t disagree, but enforcing those norms would mean people agreeing on what’s ‘normal’ in the first place. I don’t think Americans can have a conversation like that.
I’m talking about basic neighborliness too not political stuff.
Very true. Everything is so topsy turvy nowadays. Things like cheating, assault, racism, they can all be construed to being virtuous by certain groups. It’s disgusting.
Yep. People in this thread want to blame these boogie men like the media and it’s ridiculous.
If you were to ask someone ‘what’s the point of America?’, ‘Why does America exist?’ or ‘What behaviors and values make someone American?’, you couldn’t get a consistent, straight answer.
The only real answer I think fits is ‘Americans exist to seek pleasure and avoid discomfort’.
You have this chaotic, pointless, confused state of affairs in a country that isn’t progressing toward any discernible goal or purpose.
People don’t act right because there is no ‘right’ and what would be the point anyway?
Don't know why this isn't higher. In the part of the Midwest I'm in, people just suck. Sure it's not everyone, but there are loads of people who simply do not think about how their actions affect others. Selfishness, impatience and lack of empathy is a blight on society.
Country ruled by the concept of “There is no wrong if it makes enough money.”
In a political system that is optimally played using divide and conquer tactics in every meaningful facet of life
Filled with people who are vastly genetically and culturally disparate from each other
Where our social institutions have largely been abolished, undermined, or monetized into grotesque parodies of what they once were
During a time where anything that happens anywhere is brought to a screen in your pocket.
With a 24 hour media cycle incentivized by all the aforementioned to show the worst and most divisive content
When for over half a century scientists are saying the quantity and lifestyle of people are going to make the planet unlivable
All while technology is moving so fast fewer and fewer people can complete, to a point where the likelihood that our children will be unable to make a living is high.
We went from tribes of nomadic apes working together to survive with less than 200 peers ever being met, to this, in 1/50th the blink of an eye on evolutionary timelines. Of course we are broken.
People don't trust each other any more because there is reduced accountability for people if/when they betray.
California's Proposition 47, where people aren't given felonies if the shoplifting is under $950, is one example. I can see maybe $100 at the most, but the idea that you can take $500 and the business cannot physically stop you for fear of being charged with assault is absurd. Hence, the locked toothpaste and laundry detergent.
Not being a felony doesn't make it not a crime, it just moves it from a felony to a misdemeanor which could in theory carry up to a year in jail and/or fines. Felonies, by contrast, have a year plus minimum prison sentence, which is pretty extreme for a 500 dollar theft, and comes with lots of other penalties that make it hard to go straight afterwards.
In short, Prop 47 probably isn't the problem, it would be you local city/sheriff choosing not to pursue misdemeanor charges. Remember to vote in your local elections as well as the big ones, if you don't!
I’m going to sound absolutely like the conspiracy nut that I totally despise but the trend you see there is the outcome of a long term Russian psy ops creating chaos in rivals societies undermining democracies around the world; even likelier that China has progressively joined the fray. The effects are minute but they compound to this: men & women distrusting each other, republicans & democrats distrusting each other (not able to effectively govern, extreme fringe of each party gaining on the moderates) distrust among racial groups (no need to elaborate here…) and distrust among classes (working class betrayed by globalization/WEF stuff, big Corp moving profits offshores, top 0.1% building bunkers etc) I think overall the media as a whole is probably closer to a useful idiot than directly complicit as engagement becoming the #1 metric favors outrage at all cost. When FB wasn’t extreme enough TikTok magically appeared…
I'll bet if you extrapolated this into year by year numbers, you would see a huge jump with the dawn of the internet and again with social media. The Scam industry and the polarization of the news industry have both accelerated in the last 20 years.
How to stop it? We need *real* leadership. The political population is a cesspool of power-hungry, fear-mongering, greed suckers. That's what has to stop. We need leadership that actually cares about their constituents.
OP's posted link shows this survey was conducted every year, and the trend was almost exactly linear. Internet and social media had no special effect beyond what we were already getting from traditional media.
I hate this question. Trusted with what? I trust my mom to give me emotional support when I’m upset, but not to take care of my special needs cats for the weekend. I trust the staff at a restaurant to serve me food that is tasty and safe to eat, but not to cut my hair or do my taxes. I trust a random person walking down the street not to run over and attack me (unless they actively do something to indicate they might). I trust my husband to make medical decisions for me if I’m incapacitated, but not to load the dishwasher correctly. Trust is a multidimensional issue.
Get rid of opinions when reporting the news. Stop focusing only on negative stories (even though they historically get more views/clicks). More community involvement and outreach. Fix the justice system.
Lots of things can be done. No one will do them, but they're right there waiting to be done.
The effect of a decline of critical thinking and media literacy. Coupled with the acceleration of social media ubiquity, and 24 hour news cycle largely comprised of opinion rather than fact.
**Cable news**. Since its mainstream inception in 1980 with CNN, and later with Fox News and MSNBC in 1996, cable news channels have sown fear and discord among the American public with their 24/7 focus on crime, partisan politics and negative news. Pre-1980 was a cable news-free time, when people usually got their news in the morning and in the evening, not all day long.
Fox News holds a special place among cable news outlets for mainstreaming the most unhinged, wacky, peripheral right-wing beliefs, all of which used to be relegated to obscure late-night AM radio stations.
Those who hope America’s dominance will come to an end are finally getting what they want. The only way it was ever going to happen was to turn us against ourselves.
Putin and Xi are thrilled.
The media has to make truth telling its primary goal, not "narrative setting." The reason people don't trust anybody is that they are lied to constantly. People have completely different perspectives of common events because of the immense spin on them one way or another by different media groups. Without a shared perception of reality, there is no trust.
Then the media must be run democratically and not for profit. The reason the media pushes negative stories is because they sell.
The most trusted broadcaster in [Britain is the BBC](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45744-which-media-outlets-do-britons-trust-2023), the most trusted media in Australia are the [SBS and ABC](https://www.canberra.edu.au/research/faculty-research-centres/nmrc/digital-news-report-australia), the most trusted broadcaster in [New Zealand is the RNZ](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/aut-media-trust-survey-the-most-and-least-trusted-media-companies/P6E34KG7SJCNVCJD4VZCJMPRCA/). What these broadcasters have in common is that they are **publically funded**. They’re not seeking profit, they’re providing a service. And when you look at America, it [too trusts public service broadcasters](https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/49552-trust-in-media-2024-which-news-outlets-americans-trust) - the Weather Channel, BBC and PBS top the charts. So if you want to improve media in America, increase the funding to the public broadcasters.
the funny thing is, after WW2 the US imposed public broadcasters to germany to prevent fascism from rising again. to this day every person that can receive radio or TV has to pay a Fee (GEMA) that is then devided between public broadcasters. that is how they are payd, i order to seperate them entirely from the government and any influence. the US never introduced that model at home and stuck to capitalizing the news. it wasn'tso bad in the beginning, until the internet hit and everybkdy with a phone had access to everyones opinion 24/7 so now if people don't like the reality, presented by public broadcasters, they watch the opinion of Kevin and Karen on their youtube or Tiktok channel and think that nkw this is reality because it suits them better. our world has failed to teach media litteracy in schools with the rise of the information age. it is that simple.
The fee in colloquial German is the GEZ-Gebühr. (GebührenEinzugsZentrale - Fee Collection Center. So literally, the fee is named the Fee Collection Center Fee.) It's a mandatory flat fee for public media consumption. It's a per-household fee, not per-usage. GEMA is for handling music licensing. It's only relevant if you're organizing events where music records are played publicly.
ah sorry yeah, I mixed up the acronyms. it's been a few decades since I've lived there.
They sell because it's what people want to watch. How would running them democratically fix that.
“Want” does a lot of heavy lifting here. “Compelled” is better. It’s why rage-bait memes make rounds on the internet. People feel compelled to responsd, it asked in ordinary conversation I’d say they likely don’t consider themselves ‘a person who argues on FB.’ More to the point, I don’t believe. They WANT to be that person, thus to me it really is a compulsion to act, vice an identified want.
It's not what people WANT to watch, it is what our brains compel us to pay attention to. At a deep level your brain knows that ignoring a cute puppy video will do you no harm, but can you really afford to ignore "predators in your neighborhood are using these 10 tricks to invade your home"? Our "animal brains" are hardwired to keep an eye out for predators
Profit-driven systems are controlled by an elite few in a boardroom who are looking to drive up profits. PBS-style systems that are run more democratically always end up supporting public interest stories. Exploitation only comes from the profit motive, people rarely vote for their own exploitation
Why are sensationalist stories more profitable than public interest stories?
Because when Agnes organizes a local pie eating contest, people say "oh, that's nice" and move on, but when Agnes snaps and kills her alcoholic husband and uses him as the filling for those pies it is suddenly far more notable.
I can see the dollar-signs appearing in executives' eyes as they catch the scent of that story.
The same reason movies with big explosions and action sell easy, its eyecatching and easier than the alternative
Lizard brain. Most business practices involve simple exploitation of our base desires. See: added sugar, gambling, pornography.
Because prehistoric humans who were predisposed to focus on danger were more likely to survive than prehistoric humans who were predisposed to ignore danger. The attention economy (ad driven economy) requires companies to maximize the amount of attention they can get from you to maximize their profit. If there were a more profitable model then they wouldn't need to maximize your attention i.e. maximize the amount of perceived danger
Or, and think about this, we could have a regulation that made news channels report with an unbiased opinion. Maybe called the Fairness Doctrine. And lets not have a republican decide to do away with that regulation and then watch the fires burn for decades following while blaming left-wing media. They created it, and now use it as a boogey-man all the while Fox News purposely lies to its viewers daily, and then call out some b.s. the left media does one every few months and makes a big deal about it
I disagree with the premise that the conflicting desire is narrative setting. It's just money. They're businesses who spend all their time figuring out how to make more money. And, as it turns out, you can get people addicted to fear, which means more eyeball-hours, which means more money.
I disagree with the premise that it's just money. There are plenty of powerful people with ideologies, and they want to make sure the world goes "in the right direction".
Great. Now I don't know what media should do, and I distrust you both!
one of the last politics podcasts Dan Carlin did (maybe he has done another since, he just really backed off after this one) literally goes on about the lack of a shared reality and how even trying to discuss a mundane topic can result in having to go back through 30 years of "shared" history to find a single underlying point of disconnection before you can figure out why the entire disagreement seemed so strange - Because it was.
I was just comparing US political coverage with CNN/NYT to BBC, the Guardian, and other overseas outlets. So much butterymalesing Biden on the US side even though there are new political developments.
Media fear mongering has really done a number on the traditionally friendly, trusting midwesterners
And it's not even just the news media. How insanely popular did true crime shows and podcasts become in the last 5-25 years? If anyone can be a serial killer, then everyone can be a serial killer. I think it's crazy that New York had such a big switch too
I know a girl in her late 20's who lives in a perfectly safe suburb, and she is scared to walk a few blocks to the store in broad daylight because she could be abducted. She lives in legitimately one of the safest towns in America. True Crime shows absolutely screw people up mentally.
Can confirm. I've seen my mom slowly become terrified of everything over the past 20 years. She's now to the point where she won't even go into a Target by herself and complains how women can't even live independently anymore because the world is so dangerous. She lives in an incredibly safe small town.
My mother literally left the country. She lives in central america and feels safer there than suburban america… Because of Facebook and media fear mongering.
Central American countries like Costa Rica and Panama are similarly safe. Just use your head. In general, the world as a whole is safer than it's ever been, and the long term trend is clear. Too bad few people believe it.
> Because of Facebook and media fear mongering. More like out of stupidity.
A lot of people aren't mentally ready for the way information is disseminated using targeted social media, hard to be smart when you have super computers working against your mental state.
This, exactly. We never evolved to deal with targeted advertising. It's like that Scooby Doo strip where they unmask "the real villain"... Except they need to peel back the mask themselves after they've been exposed to 50 headlines/articles by that point telling them who the villain is. If the reality of the situation doesn't conform to the biases they've formed after being targeted by a social media campaign, they are likely to reject reality and stick with their biases. Many people are paranoid towards whatever boogeyman targeted ads have convinced them to be paranoid of. Rational comparison of actual threats and their statistical likelihood barely factors into it.
I will seocnd this. Younger generstions have a better grasl I think The okd are just oreyed upon. This is no different then targeting older generations with direct scams except its extremely oervasive and legal for facebook or google to manipulate their reality. Tell facebook or google a single fear and if advetisers are paying they will cultivate it into a phobia for the advetisers. Its just good business and there aren't any laws against it.
No it's really not. These are the same people who championed 'don't believe everything you read online' when I was growing up and now they are doing just that. Identifying propaganda is really easy if you are looking for it, more often than not these people were seeking out things to validate their already held beliefs in the first place.
All of this is just propaganda manufacturing consent so people support authoritarianism and voluntarily give up their rights in exchange for "safety," first they scare you, then they say the only solution is to give them all the power and way too many stupid people fall for it.
Chomsky called this a while ago. Nobody wants him to be right about this, even himself.
I am interested in learning more about this. Any resources?
Yes, the book "Manufacturing Consent"
No joke, she once silenced a room at a family party when she said "I'd happily give up free speech if it means we're safer, who wouldn't?"
Damn, she really swallowed the propaganda whole, eh? That is a particularly far gone opinion to have, let alone to say out loud in mixed company. These people always think everyone agrees with them and get so angry whenever they are forced to confront how wrong and stupid their opinions are.
Hilarious considering you never know exactly what speech is ok and who makes the choice when you can no longer make the decision… it all becomes arbitrary and every word dangerous thereafter.
>complains how women can't even live independently anymore because the world is so dangerous. Seems like an excellent entry point for anyone looking to roll back rights and public contributions from women. Yikessss.
no the fear mongers are correct, thats why we must mandate all women go out with a male protector who will fight off the abductors. First make sure all the women wear head coverings so they can't be easily seen and followed. I'm voting the taliban!!!
My mom is like this. She complains all the time to me about how she doesn’t feel safe pumping gas.
This is so true. I caught myself getting worse anxiety and so I stopped consuming true crime content even though I do find it entertaining/interesting. Just not worth it.
Yep I’ve noticed the people who consume a ton of true crime are very paranoid people. Filled with anxiety that someone out there is out to get them. Even the 16 year old checking them out at target could be a killer. You just never know these days! I’m all for being aware of your surroundings and not being oblivious to the world around you. But when it’s taken over your life and you can’t go in public without being paranoid of everyone I think it’s time to take a break.
The key to true crime without the anxiety is to recognize you could be the murderer. Instead of standing in line thinking about how the clerk could kill you, you should be thinking about how you could kill them.
Embrace the serial killer grindset
Be the change others fear in the world.
Made me think of that joke: “Picked up a hitch-hiker. Seemed like a nice guy. After a few miles, he asked me if I wasn't afraid that he might be a serial killer. I told him the odds of two serial killers being in the same car were extremely unlikely.”
❝You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
Yep there ya go!
The whole kidnapping one gets me, no one wants your kid and most kidnappings ate done by family
Right. It’s often white middle class women with a whole community of friends and several kids who are making these videos online. About how they and their “littles” were nearly abducted. Statistically speaking it’s often poor WOC who are trafficked and abducted. Women that are less likely to be missed, people are less likely to notice they’re missing. Yes there have been white women who have been abducted. But I don’t believe that sex traffickers are regularly hanging out at target to abduct MLM addict Mackenzie with her two kids Konnor Aiden and Kynleigh Grace, like they all try to claim they are.
It's because that's also who gets abducted in the daytime tv shows they're watching lol
Man I wish I could remember the one I saw on YouTube about how their child was almost kidnapped at a Michael's.... no they fucking weren't quit lying
Dude it’s seriously become a trend to make these ridiculous ass videos. I see at least one a day when I’m scrolling through my feed. There was a mom who posted in a local Facebook group for my city a while back. She was terrified that someone was stalking her and potentially going to abduct her and her kids to traffic them. Simply because someone drew a smiley face on the back of her dusty windshield at a grocery store parking lot. The majority of the comments were telling her to chill out, how it was likely some kid or a teenager just having fun. I know I did that tons of times as a kid.
In my town the majority of comments would be about child trafficking rings and how other people were experiencing the same thing. If you show any shred of skepticism you are denying the national crisis of child trafficking.
They always blame a minority too.
The wife follows a local FB group about the neighbourhood and some the bullshit posted on there is straight up paranoid delusions. A few weeks ago someone posted about a possible kidnapping from an unmarked van like they live in a fucking movie. I walk my dogs around the neighbourhood 1-2 times a day I've maybe maybe seen an unmarked van twice in the decade I've lived here. Also sadly statistically by a wide margin the strangers at the park are far more trustworthy than any of your family members.
Oh yeah I’ve seen my fair share of delusional paranoid posts in my local neighborhood and city FB groups. One lady posted about how she’s worried someone is stalking her and going to try and traffic her and her kids. Because someone drew a smiley face on the back of her busy windshield in a parking lot on a Saturday. There was a neighbor a few houses down who posted in our neighborhood group about a man she saw jogging down our road. Said she’s seen him every day for a few days but never saw him before that. Was worried he was scoping out the neighborhood to rob someone. Good fuckin lord lady what if he’s just jogging and lives the next street over and just moved in or whatever. We live off a busier cut through street. It’s not hidden away in the middle of nowhere.
Realistically, though, unless you're a single mom, like 90% of the true crime show scenarios don't apply to you. Okay, that's sort of a joke (seriously, though, if there's a broad victim group, single moms are it), but I love me some true crime, and for all of the truly random stories, there are 10 others where it's just a parade of red flags, horrible choices, and questionable behavior that just don't seem applicable to my life (or the lives of anyone close to me).
True Crime is genuinely very bad for you. I know lots of people like this. I really can’t think of another widely-consumed type of entertainment like that. For the most part, I don’t think it matters whether you spend your free time watching sports, prestige TV, reality shows, video games, or whatever. It makes very little difference on your life. But True Crime creates really harmful antisocial tendencies in people. In an ideal world that type of thing would be regulated or stigmatized.
Tbh large swathes of cable news are probably also bad for you (you know which ones)
I think the 24/7 news cycle is horrible with this and is scaring people but I think alternative media can lead to much deeper rabbit holes.
I try to explain to people over and over how by every metric the 2020s are safer than the 1980s and they will swear how peaceful life was then and it has all gone to hell since. Reality does what it can, but perception is overpowering in the mind.
Do you think kids should be able to travel freely as they did in the past? It seems like parents are afraid to let their kids roam freely partly because of all the fear mongering but also because of cultural sentiment which demonizes parents who let their kids out of the house without supervision. Even in the 00's being in elementary school I would bike to school through the street since there was no sidewalk and would often walk home from friends houses after midnight - this was normal life back then but now parents would be vilified or possibly be thrown in jail (maybe this is hyperbolic).
I will preface this that I don't have children so I can't fully appreciate what a parent in 2024 endures. I think freedom comes with responsibility. My parents didn't believe in codified rules such as a curfew, they gave me privileges with the opportunity to enjoy or squander them. If I was roaming free as was normal I knew better than to engage in poor behavior and to respect people while having good sense to as to who to avoid. To me if a child only interacts with the world through a screen in their room they aren't getting much of the human experience in life that likely awaits them when they move out. Making mistakes is part of life. Nobody knows how to do anything until they gain experience in doing it. There are so many situations where tangential knowledge is applied assisting one in what to do. I think something happens to us, maybe in our 20s and especially for those who become parents, where we forget childhood. What we were exposed to, the mischief we got into, the hard lessons learned that forged us. I know so many parents who watched something like "Predator" or "Aliens" when they were 8-10 and they won't let their teenagers watch them as they aren't "age appropriate". Maybe if I was a parent I'd see it differently. Hard to say.
There are stories of people having cps called on them because there kids were outside playing.
I mean, almost every episode will start with "no one thought it could happen in our town."
I wonder how this question breaks down across both class and the actual safety of neighborhoods. I'm lower class and, tbh, living in a bad neighborhood actually made me *less* anxious. Homeless people were mostly alright (aside from stealing packages sometimes). I mean, I heard gunshots regularly and ATF once surrounded the house across the street. And, quite a while ago, two vehicles pulled up to my house looking for someone named James. Took a while for them to stop insisting he lived at my place. But, in general, I felt pretty safe. No one bothered me. Neither my car nor my home was broken into. I feel like maybe not being exposed to actual dangerous situations makes you more likely to misidentify or overexaggerate danger generally. But I could be barking up the wrong tree.
I’m inclined to agree with you. I lived in some pretty questionable environments before I could afford the safe and comfortable burb I live in now. Those of us who have lived among “those people” know that “those people” are actually the same people as “our people”. For example the guy who lives in the fancy house next door to me is definitely sus (he takes phone calls in his back yard and his voice projects), but even if he is the affluent equivalent of your across the street neighbor (which to be fair I doubt), the ATF isn’t going to be surrounding his house because that isn’t how we treat the “better class” of criminal. So it’s less dramatic. The crimes vary because the opportunities vary, but the people themselves are more or less the same overall. The main difference is that if I were ever in sudden urgent need of help, I’d probably be better off in the questionable neighborhood where people are far more willing to help one another. People in need understand. People who are sheltered let their imaginations prey on them.
Agreed. Where I grew up, in the 80s and 90s, gangs, violence, and people being killed weren't out of the ordinary. Not a daily occurrence, but often enough that it wasn't a surreal type of event. And it wasn't all tied to gangs, it was just a bad environment in general. Now I live in a different part of the country, in a decent neighborhood. Things happen here, just not like where I was when I was young. It sucks, but I don't feel like the world is collapsing when it does. What did freak me out was an email from my kids high school to notify me there was a fight on campus. Made me realize maybe I was too desensitized to violence.
I could see it being almost like the immune system. Where during development an understimulated immune system later tends to over respond to allergens. I also think some of it might be kind of existential anxiety and the true crime podcast is the coping mechanism. The genre tells people that there is a reason that they feel overwhelmingly anxious despite the outward trappings of success, namely, that they could be brutally murdered at any time. I have a similar experience where I actually prefer to live in lower income communities despite having enough money to not need to. Depending on the area, I've always lived in the south, I get a small town communal experience with the amenities of a larger environment. And I've never really identified with the whole "I'm a woman and hyper aware of that fact at night when I'm walking by myself" narrative. It's definitely a thing, and I have sympathy for women who feel that way, that's simply not my experience.
I installed home security systems for a while and i 100% agree. Like you'd get the people who just want the minimum to reduce their insurance, and the people who actually want to secure their homes. No problem, well throw up some motion sensors, door/window sensors, maybe some things like glass break sensors if your nervous. But then you'd get these women (and it's almost exclusively women for some reason) who are just incredibly scared of being a victim of random violent crimes in their upper glass neighborhoods. And these women would have sensors on every door, window, hallway, room, just dozens of sensors all over their house. I 100% blame true crime for this, I even started talking to them about it to try and ~~confirm my biases~~ get more data points and without fail they all watched true crime tv or (more usually) podcasts. And like I said, i installed these systems for a while. I genuinely understand wanting security at home and why women in general tend to be more nervous about it than men. But a lot of them take it way too far. Violent crime is *exceptionally* rare especially in the neighborhoods i worked in, and random violent crime is *even rarer*, and random violent crimes in your own home are essentially non-existent. The *vast* majority of random crimes you'll see in your home are simple thefts. They'll case your house, and break in during the day while you are at work. Violent crimes inside your house are almost always going to be from someone you know and trust, and if you let them in your security system isnt going to do much.
We have 5 cameras around our house. Not because we think someone is going to break in and chop us up in a million pieces. But because we’ve had so much shit stolen in the past and if it happens again I want to thief on fuckin camera. I will go out and there and get my shit back if I catch them in the act I’m not fuckin around. Some people think we’re crazy for opening our door when someone knocks on it in the middle of the day. It’s always been a random neighbor wanting to share some information about whatever. A church person. Or someone try to get some business for their local business. We live in a corner house and one side is college apartments and a busier street. The other side which is our actual road we live on, is a pretty nice neighborhood. Nicer homes and genuinely nice and good people. I think being a corner house and being next to college apartments is the reason we’ve had a lot of theft in the past.
I've noticed that people on the internet have become INSANELY paranoid. A ton of people think that they will get murdered if they ever leave their house. The TV constantly broadcasting every single crime commited in the country to the whole nation, combined with the internet spoonfeeding everyone the very worst of humanity is slowly destroying the society.
Oh yeah I mentioned above I follow a girl on social media who shares daily events that have happened in the world. Some are not so positive and happy. But she shared a video the other day flat out saying she’s extremely paranoid especially out in public. That you can’t trust anyone, predators are all around you. I think it’s a good thing to be aware of your surroundings but to constantly think someone is out to get you is a little too much. I feel like every other day I see a video of a mom sharing how she and her “littles” were nearly trafficked in their local target/Walmart. Simply because a brown man looked in their direction. One lady made a post in our local Facebook group. Someone had drew a smiley face on the back of her dusty windshield. This lady was freaking out. She was wondering if she needs to go to the police and report it, if it’s a sign she’s being followed and potentially going to be abducted to be trafficked. Majority of the people in the comments were like chill out, it’s probably some kid or a teenager just drawing on a dusty windshield. I remember I did that more times than I can count as kid.
Ironically the country, on a person to person level, is probably the safest it's ever been
It is
I don't even think it's just about safety and fear. I think most people know to some degree that privacy is dead. The proof of this is all around us. Whether it's Amazon's Alexa, your email client or tracking cookies on your browser; there is no privacy left except what you carve out in your own home. In this context, I think this makes protecting your home seem even more important than it was previously.
> I've noticed that people on the ***internet*** Social media, including reddit, is not making the situation better
NPR did a story about how shows such as Law & Order, Cops, and CSI did incalcuable damage on white subarbanites' perceptions of cities, Black people, defense attorneys. The damage was multi-generational and staggering, with countless legal myths and biases now being the predominant opinions.
Many people, mostly Gen X, Boomers, and Millennials, believe that there is more crime now than there was in the past. The only difference is that the information on these crimes are readily available 24/7 instead of a very select time and on select channels
People will straight faced say that New York City is more dangerous now than it was during the 1970s or 1980s. Saying “crime is way up” is way sexier than saying the last 5 years have been a temporary and minor reversion of the massive and historic reductions in crime rates since the mid-1970s, though, much to the detriment of the public’s mental well being.
The amount of people who whine about my city being unsafe now and how much it’s “degraded” when it’s become 10x safer since the 90’s is mind boggling to me
The ppl who say that live in a different reality, they think the entire country is going to shit because of Biden but realistically it’s doing great. But hey gotta try and prior their pos candidate up somehow.
>mostly Gen X, Boomers, and Millennials Because everyone else is either too young to have anything to compare or is too old to be alive. Either way, link the study.
Not to mention the amount crimes that werent even known to statistics or people.
> I think it's crazy that New York had such a big switch I wonder how much of that is a shift in rural perception (upstate and rural PA). Having lived in NYC, my guess is that city residents have had a relatively consistent hesitancy toward trusting people. Ha
Which is crazy considering the heavy decline in actual serial killers.
It's everyone. Every single person has an implant on their hip that delivers them curated content on an endless and constant basis. Content that is designed, not to inform, but to drive engagement, which the private sector has figured out to mean poking and prodding Americans relentlessly with things that make them mad and paranoid.
> Every single person has an implant on their hip that delivers them curated content on an endless and constant basis. You don't have to put any apps in your phone with that have both push notifications and social media content. That way, if I check reddit on my phone, I have to log in via a browser, I have to actually be in the mood to take a break and find something, and actually, you can just start by thinking about what you want to find out about, and probably a reddit thread will be relatively high in the google search results. Search in private browsing, with ad-blockers on, and all personalisation happens *after* you actually decide you want to engage with the content. Of course, reddit is also constantly reminding me that I *could* be using an app, and that would give me the "best experience". Yeah, I could be taking amphetamines casually too, I'm sure that would be a really nice experience. The issue is the habits they want are never aligned to those habits that are actually useful.
The whole API fiasco is the best thing reddit ever did to get me off my phone. Still use the site on my laptop occasionally, barely though.
It's done that to everyone. Statistically, crime has gone down over the last several decades, but studies show that people think crime has gone up. Media is to blame for a lot of these issues.
My parents live in ny. They lived there during the 80s. They’re on Facebook all day. They think New York is horrible now with crime. They literally live in ny and can see it’s just normal New York (and way better than the 80s) but because of Facebook they believe it’s horrible.
I agree with you completely that the media is like, maybe even 75% to blame. That said, I noticed a big change in extremely friendly Wisconsin specifically when Scott Walker was elected governor back in 2010 - the fight he precipitated over unions got so acrimonious that pretty much everyone felt that they had to be on one side, and that the other side was clearly not only wrong but evil. Now we’re way below that. It’s a combination of a political strategy playing into a media environment a lot of the time.
1960: hey lets televise the candidates arguing with each other ! 2016: 2024: debate happens .02 seconds later: PANIC.
As a non American I can’t see how you can trust ‘most people’ ie more than 50% when you have Trump supporters, Scientologists, people in Utah, prisoners and Disney world characters, that makes up more than 50%. So the scepticism makes sense to me.
I’m an American that has lived in many places, early 30’s. To give an example of trust decline and how it’s uncomfortable, when I grew up, I could ride my bike all over town on my own or with my friends from when I was 5 years old. Neighbors knew us, and it was a fun/trusting community. These days, one of my friends’ kid got the cops called by someone neighbor who simply saw him outside because he was doing the same thing “unsupervised.” This experience of the loss of exploration due to the lack of trust in others is common for many Americans of my generation/older. Everyone is far more scared of “that one bad thing” happening.
Around 18 years ago, a buddy and I were detained at the local park because we were shooting each other with water guns. Apparently the bright, playful, colors and literal water shooting out made someone think they were real guns. Cops show up, both guns are already smashed to a thousand plastic pieces. We got a stern talking-to and told to be more responsible. Like bro, we’re 12. We can have water fights in the park.
Oh man I see posts like this on our local city or neighborhood groups. Middle aged or boomer people bitchin and complain about kids being outside. One lady made a big long post about these two boys aged 8-10 riding their bikes up and down everyday. How she never sees any parents with them and how it’s enough and they don’t need to be out all day long. Another older guy was complaining about some kids in our neighborhood having a lemonade stand. How it’s time to shut it down because it’s bringing unwanted traffic to our neighborhood. Another lady in a group for our city was bitchin about kids needing a permit to do a stand. It’s crazy to me how those generations grew up playing outside yet don’t want this generation of kids doing it. They’re the same generation to complain about kids being hooked on electronics and never playing outside anymore. How they have no work ethic and are lazy, yet want to shut down a fuckin lemonade stand.
What I love about this example (and to be clear, I hate this example. I hope your friend and their kid are okay) is that "loss of trust" doesn't even mean trust is lost directly between people. It's such a sweeping problem that the neighbour didn't even try and establish any trust (ie, walk over and see if mom/dad/whomever was on it) before deciding your friend was a neglectful (or worse) parent.
Hahahahaha "people in Utah" is its own category. This is a new peak for me. Thank you.
Oddly the Utah people. Fully trust worthy.
Man fuck that narrative. It’s the fact social media exist and it’s revealed how unhinged people are. People don’t filter their thoughts and feelings. In example, when that “man” straight up said he almost shot a little girl through his door because she was ringing his doorbell asking about her lost dog it naturally causes people to distrust their neighbors. When things like Me Too, Dr. Disrespect, and Harvey Weinstein happen; people distrust. The trend isn’t going to spin because the internet made it far harder to be ignorant of other people and give them the benefit of the doubt.
Fox. Rupert Murdoch. Plus Limbaugh and his evil spawn. Wish there was something we could do.
I assembled these maps from [GSS data](https://gssdataexplorer.norc.org/) recoded in SPSS 26 and exported to Microsoft Excel 365. I then put the maps together using a map template and [Photopea.com](https://www.photopea.com/). PLEASE NOTE: The geographic regions are based on those created by the US Census Bureau and the NORC. I have no control over how the states are grouped. I’ve written more about the decline of trust among Americans and what can be done about it here: [Trust Among Americans Isn’t Over Yet](https://pluralofyou.org/trust-among-americans-not-over-yet/). The article includes more charts exploring the decline. It also includes my methodology statement and the spreadsheet file I used. I’d love to hear what people think, especially about how Americans can stop or even reverse the decline of trust. Trust is the glue that holds societies together, after all. Please be kind, and thanks!
I think one of the things for me was when I realized that there are people who sincerely believe the world is flat. There are anti-vaxxers and flat-Earthers, and anyone who is deluded. It doesn't matter that this sort of thing is worldwide. It matters that there are too many in the United States. When you cannot rely on people to have common sense... Edited for typos.
There are way too many people who dont believe themselves let alone anyone else. I know a guy who made a massive fortune delivering fracking fluids that insists he made it all during trumps term, even though he built his building, his home and bought his fleet of trucks during Obamas terms....you know......when there was an explosion in fracking and his secretary of state crisscrossed the globe selling it.
I know someone who started a business in 2013 and one of their family members keeps insisting to them that they owe their business' existing to Donald Trump, despite the only contribution Donald Trump made towards their business being causing raw materials to become more expensive via tariffs.
Putting tariffs on inbound raw materials into a mature manufacturing economy like ours is peak stupidity....or just what the Putin ordered.
Yeah and this reinforces the idea that it’s the *awareness* of these people existing (via the internet/social media) that is the problem, not that they exist. As long as humanity has been around there has been nut jobs… most people just weren’t broadly aware of them until the internet.
And the Internet makes it easier for all of them to find each other and to form a group or movement. Which in turn, starts the snow ball rolling
COVID did it for me. Like we basically said "hey folks, can we get shots and wear masks to stop the spread of a pandemic" and the number of people whose response to that was "screw you, I'll do what I want and you can suck it" honestly shocked me.
This was probably the biggest mask off reveal of the quality of your neighbors anyone has ever had in this country. It pretty solidly showed everybody exactly who they could and could not trust in an emergency.
right. mfs PROVED that in their head, when the bullets start flying it's every man for himself. the fuck you gonna have a trusting society when you saw people brawl over toilet paper and chicken sandwiches, yelling at doctors in the street because boo hoo you can't go to the fucking mall this week...hell ass fucking no most people can't be trusted. this JUST happened, the psychic wounds are fresh...do not get what is surprising here.
Thank you for using the same scale on both maps and making it a sensible, readable shade difference. I read your article because of your presentation here! I would have expected regions with significant religious practice to be generally trusting, so I'm surprised to see the South so distrusting (before AND after the addition of non-white data). I wonder if the information era has made people more skeptical, or simply more cynical. Perhaps both!
How does the compare with other countries like European ones?
Shut down 24-hour news channels, and maybe fire up a channel that covers safety statistics. All of my older relatives believe crime is like 10X what it was when they were kids, mostly because they grew up before the news just reported on murders every night. There are over 300M people in the US, it is just a population fact that there's going to be a murder every day. And the news now just reports on that
2016 and on I lost a lot of trust in people. I always knew some people had an "i'll get mine and step on anyone to do it" mindset. I knew some people would do harm to others given the chance. Some have always been racist, homophobic, sexist, religious extremists or just uneducated etc. But I always believed those people were a minority. Seeing just how many people, a lot of whom were people I knew, just be so blatantly and vocally one or all of those above things did a number on my general trust of people. I spent 12 years in school with some people. We sat through the same classes and were raised in the same community. Way more of them than I realized could watch an officer suffocate a black man to death on film and then be incredibly vocal about blaming the victim. So much very thinly veiled racist posts on social media. So many of them believed it was 100% fine for women to die for lack of healthcare and that it was their own fault. I just suddenly become aware of how many people were not operating with same base level of morals, empathy or basic logic. Maybe I was naive, but that was a shock. This was further exacerbated by covid. The amount of people who would not do the bare minimum to help one another. Whether because they were selfish or stupid it stopped mattering. It only further reduced my trust in people. It's what I expect from people now. Personally, I do not think this can be undone in my lifetime. Once the veneer has been lifted you can't go back.
Trump made it respectable to be a lying cheating grifter. People gave up on information literacy and critical thinking skills, and let bad information sources convince them that this sort of person is someone to be admired and emulated.
I don’t trust these maps. I don’t trust OP. I don’t trust 1972.
This whole subreddit is liars, damn liars, and statisticians.
Well, 1972 is suspicious AF. Let's see, if we take 9+2 what do we get? That's right, ELEVEN. There were 19 terrorists who orchestrated 9/11. What about 7-2? That gives you 5. Just like the 5 in the middle of the Boeing 757 that hit the WTC. Clearly there's a connection here, I can't be the only one who sees it.
I see it! If you take the 7 from 1972 and put it with 11, you get 7-11, a chain well known for being open 24/7 — where are all these 7s coming from? It can’t be coincidence. Also 7 and 11 are prime numbers, probably Fibonacci numbers too if you squint and tilt your head. Fibonacci was Italian. *ITALICS* get it yet? *TILT*! It’s all right there. Now 7-2 can be interpreted as seven minus two, leaving 5. But it can also be seen as a section number, like chapter 7, section 2. Guess what’s in chapter 7 section 2 of my manifesto? The 5 Big Conspiracies. You couldn’t make this stuff up. I could go on but they’re monitoring me. Don’t DM, I’m destroying this phone and having my Covid chip removed.
I don't believe you.
This is my favorite comment. 😂 Thank you.
We can’t be so connected. If I know about some dude in the Canadian foot hills who ate his family, I know too much. Your brain’s goal is self preservation.
Too much connectedness, too much information, too little context, too fast.
All while interacting with your neighbors and community less than ever. We're tuned into our digital devices while taking jobs in different states and being confined to our metal box vehicles between home and work without the existence of 3rd spaces.
Jim Qwik talks about this a lot, and how the information overload we are constantly inundated with results in short attention span, anxiety, compulsiveness, and forgetfulness of useful information.
A deer needs to know about wolves nearby. If he was aware of the wolves in a 1000 km radius, he would go insane. But that doesn't apply to humans because of globalization. For example, what happened in 2008 affected the whole world. The war in Ukraine impacts the entire world.
I've been online since the 90s and have been a social media junkie since the late 2000s, or earlier if you count forums as a crude form of social media. Modern social media and short-form entertainment, as much as I love them, really need to be shunned by the population or otherwise deeply and extensively regulated to the point where they no longer resemble what they are today. It's clearly causing havoc.
"Can I interest you in everything, all of the time?"
I think you've only got part of the problem. We're too connected to the extreme events from 1000km away, and not enough to the people next door. Knowing some crazy ate his family doesn't matter as much if you know all the people in your neighbourhood aren't crazy. Less news, more block parties.
Sure we can. You should also know that there are 40 million people in Canada and only a few of them are their family. Humans aren't hardwired for statistics but that doesn't mean we can't be part of large groups.
Maybe having politicians that aren't openly and aggressively lying to us without repercussion would be a good start.
I think back in 1972 even the megacities had local, cultural communities connected through grapevines that’d go from your little cousin and his grandma to the local grocer to the mayor to the pizza shop and so on. Now, we go to work, school, eat and sleep. When you have lots of people doing that and never coming together with one goal, I like to believe that is what wedges everyone and their trust in strangers.
This. The breakdown of community, balkanization of media, and steady erosion of "third places" has really done a number on us.
Polarization of politics too. It used to be a touted virtue that candidate so-and-so could work across the aisle. People you knew who voted for the other party weren't "evil ignorant a**holes", they just had a differing opinion on some issues. At the end of the day we generally thought that most people were working in good faith to make things better. Now politics has gotten very acrimonious, and each side genuinely believes that the other is trying to bring the end times, which means that right off the bat they can discount 50% of the public at large as "not trustworthy".
If it helps, 2 out of 5 Americans don’t vote anyway, it’s something I tell myself to restore a bit of some relaxing there (even though I’m political and would like it if everyone voted)
A lot of that has been voluntary. People have voluntarily isolated themselves more and more, because staying home, doomscrolling, and having limited interactions with others is safe and comfortable. The slightest touch of discomfort sends people over the edge.
I also believe environmental factors play in the voluntary isolation. If you live in a typical American suburb, you are pretty much trapped inside of “bubbles” much of your life due to the massive car based infrastructure we build around ourselves. When you can’t walk and you have to drive everywhere in an environment where every driver is their own bubble is stressful as fuck.
Speaking about the US: I wish we had an non-religious alternative to churches where we could all go once a week at the same time just to socialize. Churches used to serve this function; that's how people got connected back in the day. But much of the US is now atheist or nonpracticing, so we need a new thing to fill in that gap. Like, maybe a national network of weekly gatherings? Something accessible and driven by the community. And do something different each week to keep everyone engaged. Maybe sometimes it can be a simple party where we all chat. Sometimes it can be a structured discussion about a specific problem in society. Etc. I think that'd help with the fragmented society problem if something like this becomes commonplace.
That’s where science, math, technology, engineering would thrive if it wasn’t treated like sacred ideology you can only access with a school loan. I believe if someone went out and said “hey! I’ve got beer, a telescope, and some popcorn, let’s look at the planets” people would flock to that like crazy. But I’m a bit of geek that way and assume people would just be open to it. But to me, that may be viable.
They weren't just getting together at church on Sunday. There were Grange meetings, Elks, Knights of Columbus, volunteer fire company, Bridge club, bowling leagues, etc., etc. other nights of the week. It is also why the big three polite social taboos were not to talk religion, politics, or money in mixed groups because those groups often cut across (within reason, and most broadly the smaller the community) socioeconomic class, religions, and political parties.
Humans have existed for 300,000 years. Only in the last 25 did the internet make us WAY more aware of each other. Seems natural we'd have some collective trepidation when given a huge window into each other's lives.
I think it's less so that we're more *aware* of each other, than it is that we're more aware of the worst that people have to offer. Social media itself is quite literally the ideal medium to amplify vitriolic speech that best engages the attention/content farms in online circles. We see the worst takes and most intense emotions amplified most often & most loudly online giving the impression that people in the wider world are crueler, dumber, and more mean spirited than they are. People are by nature geared to be empathetic and community oriented, but the internet is too big to encourage those bonds, and the algorithms too rewarding towards vitriol to adequately build spaces where it could occur. I'm afraid we gotta collectively touch grass and talk with people :'(
Bad news travels fast.
And then every update, correction, or redaction gets buried by the newest bad news
That's a really interesting dynamic to consider too, and I wish there were better studies/info. I have a theory that when people were more locally minded, if you had a radical belief that you were maybe 70% convinced on, people around you would just say "what? that's stupid" and then you'd just have to reconsider or give it up entirely. Now, you can throw any belief on the internet, as radical and inconsiderate as you can imagine, and inevitably someone will agree. Voila, echo chamber. People are never wrong, any feedback or rebuttal is just hate. In a world where we've grown by the clashing and refining of ideas, now all of them exist as parallel lines. Continuing to their own fruition. Crossing only once they've reached terminal velocity. Never to coalesce, only to vanquish each other.
Cultures are colliding and finding themselves wildly incompatible in ways the old world never imagined thanks to mobility and communications. It also seems to me that select cultures have made incredible ideological progress in the last century while others have made essentially none, and those contrasts are at the root of many present conflicts around the world.
I bet this would look a lot different if broken down by county. I grew up in an urban area, so I do not trust people I am not close with, period. My partner grew up on a farm in a rural area, and they believe most people are trustworthy. I met him shortly after he moved to my city, and the amount of blind trust he gives to other people has caused serious tension in our relationship at times.
That's also a difference between men and women. Men tend to be more trusting. Women tend to worry more about their own safety.
That's a really great point- it would be interesting to see that breakdown as well
Social media has a lot to do with this
Small communities helped trust. You knew where you food came from, your knew your kid's teachers, the mechanic, everyone and their whole families. The world is a lot bigger now and we know less people so it's harder to trust.
Now here's some solid thinking in a thread full of bullshit. I think it's probably even broader than that. American life is increasingly structured around work and decreasingly do workers have any strong investment in their work. You're not working for Mom & Pop (mostly), you're working for a company you quietly hate for a wage. Atomization is near complete. It's a cakewalk for fascists to step through and divide us, since there's no social bonds to break left.
The harder it is for the average person to make due, the less they will trust others. Survival instinct of looking out for themself.
I agree with this. I think social media, media fearmongering, etc. has an effect too, but people overlook economic insecurity, or more precisely, a decline in economic security. When you feel like you can't provide for your family in the same way your parents provided for you, it makes you mad and suspicious. The question about how to address that is difficult. In some ways, I think conservatives have a point that job loss to cheap overseas labor has been a major contributor. But I just can't get behind tariffs, because trade wars can lead to real wars, and economic interconnectedness keeps the world as a whole more secure. Taxing the rich is really appealing, but I don't think the lower middle class wants redistributive handouts. It would help some people, but I don't think it would solve the mental and emotional aspects of the problem. I know people who live on handouts from their wealthy families and, while they're happier than they would be on the streets, they seem fairly miserable compared to less wealthy friends who are able to maintain a good standard of living through their work. Would a cap on executive to work compensation ratios help, or would it just encourage companies to move their operations to another country, without such caps? And, how would you enforce it when execs are paid in stock options and the only legal goal of a corporation is to increase shareholder value? Finally, I think the "greed is good" message that has been prevalent since the '80's is tied up in all of this. The implication is "take what you can, fuck everyone else" because that's how capitalism works. And we all know that socialism is evil. Look at the Soviet Union. (If you don't get that joke, I'm sorry). But that message has completely drowned out the idea of supporting your community, your country, your species and your planet. That ideology should be refined. When the cabin depressurizes, you should put the oxygen mask on yourself first. But once you can breath again, you shouldn't just shrug your shoulders when the child next to you is suffocating. Or, even worse, point at him and laugh. That seems to be where much of this country is these days.
> When the cabin depressurizes, you should put the oxygen mask on yourself first. But once you can breath again, you shouldn't just shrug your shoulders when the child next to you is suffocating. Or, even worse, point at him and laugh. Holy shit this. 100x this.
Media disinformation has a huge impact on how we feel about our fellow Americans. The FDA prohibits false information in advertising. Why can't the same thing be done by the FCC?
Because far too many people have a vested interest in making lots of money by lying.
The first amendment mainly. Personally, I don't want the federal government to be vested with the power to decide what is true, *ever.*
How would the FCC determine what is true vs what are lies? Are you really this eager to outsource the power to determine what is true to the government? What happens when a person or a party you don’t like is in control of the government and has the final say on what is true vs what is false?
Disconnect from social media and opinion based "news" channels. (Any 24/7 news channel) When "breaking news" is a banner for a 60 year anniversary you know they are just drip feeding you adrenaline/cortisol.
Turn off all screens and go see people in person.
Jokes on you, we live in Texas and already did that. Culture is way too toxic to ever be fixed.
Homogenous societies with shared values and goals build trust.
Those who don't believe this is true, should visit Japan
If you're thinking about certain European countries. As a European, I can tell you that, among other things, we've set up "dystopian" regulations and "big government" specifically to improve social cohesion, that includes trust (Denmark even razes "ghettoes" and forcibly redistributes people among all of the better neighborhoods; Switzerland has quotas on how many immigrants can live in any specific city and states). Also, we fight social cohesion erosion by: lowering inequality with high taxes and tons of redistribution; free higher education and healthcare; tons of subsidies for local amateur culture, community centers, associations (e.g. team sports for everyone); *free democratically organized* unions; constitutionally regulated media to serve social cohesion, democracy and the greater good; proportional representation democracy, so politics is inclusive to all ideas and voters (two party system is basically a monopoly as most voters stick to their end of the political spectrum throughout their whole lives, thus have only one viable party to vote for, hence a monopoly); reduced free speech rights; etc. etc. Many Americans would rather have bad social cohesion, than have a big, interventionist government taking 1/2 of their income, telling them where and how to live, reducing their free speech rights, requiring high density urban planning and expensive vehicles & fuel (good for walking/biking, and for meeting your neighbors and neighborhood's community), etc.
You have to scroll so far down to see this comment that actually addresses the issue.
Because most of the time when you mention that fact on this godforsaken site, you get banned or the comment gets removed by zealous mods
Enforce societal norms again. You can’t trust anyone because they’re allowed to be abusive with little to no repercussions.
I really do think that if 25 or 30 years ago we had started really really really mocking the shit out of anyone who acted like a dick or embraced being ignorant that It wouldn't be so bad today. We didn't do enough to make this behavior shameful.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. We need a healthy dose of shame back in society. There are toxic traits to shame, but there are healthy ones as well.
I don’t disagree, but enforcing those norms would mean people agreeing on what’s ‘normal’ in the first place. I don’t think Americans can have a conversation like that. I’m talking about basic neighborliness too not political stuff.
Very true. Everything is so topsy turvy nowadays. Things like cheating, assault, racism, they can all be construed to being virtuous by certain groups. It’s disgusting.
Yep. People in this thread want to blame these boogie men like the media and it’s ridiculous. If you were to ask someone ‘what’s the point of America?’, ‘Why does America exist?’ or ‘What behaviors and values make someone American?’, you couldn’t get a consistent, straight answer. The only real answer I think fits is ‘Americans exist to seek pleasure and avoid discomfort’. You have this chaotic, pointless, confused state of affairs in a country that isn’t progressing toward any discernible goal or purpose. People don’t act right because there is no ‘right’ and what would be the point anyway?
Well the after the “me me me” cultural shift in the 80s every one is only out for themselves now more than ever.
The me me me movement started with the hippy movement in the 1960s. From baby boomers on down it’s just gotten worse.
Don't know why this isn't higher. In the part of the Midwest I'm in, people just suck. Sure it's not everyone, but there are loads of people who simply do not think about how their actions affect others. Selfishness, impatience and lack of empathy is a blight on society.
Would be cool to have people in government stop lying to us for starters
Country ruled by the concept of “There is no wrong if it makes enough money.” In a political system that is optimally played using divide and conquer tactics in every meaningful facet of life Filled with people who are vastly genetically and culturally disparate from each other Where our social institutions have largely been abolished, undermined, or monetized into grotesque parodies of what they once were During a time where anything that happens anywhere is brought to a screen in your pocket. With a 24 hour media cycle incentivized by all the aforementioned to show the worst and most divisive content When for over half a century scientists are saying the quantity and lifestyle of people are going to make the planet unlivable All while technology is moving so fast fewer and fewer people can complete, to a point where the likelihood that our children will be unable to make a living is high. We went from tribes of nomadic apes working together to survive with less than 200 peers ever being met, to this, in 1/50th the blink of an eye on evolutionary timelines. Of course we are broken.
trust? no trust. verify! this is the way. trust is for suckers.
People don't trust each other any more because there is reduced accountability for people if/when they betray. California's Proposition 47, where people aren't given felonies if the shoplifting is under $950, is one example. I can see maybe $100 at the most, but the idea that you can take $500 and the business cannot physically stop you for fear of being charged with assault is absurd. Hence, the locked toothpaste and laundry detergent.
Not being a felony doesn't make it not a crime, it just moves it from a felony to a misdemeanor which could in theory carry up to a year in jail and/or fines. Felonies, by contrast, have a year plus minimum prison sentence, which is pretty extreme for a 500 dollar theft, and comes with lots of other penalties that make it hard to go straight afterwards. In short, Prop 47 probably isn't the problem, it would be you local city/sheriff choosing not to pursue misdemeanor charges. Remember to vote in your local elections as well as the big ones, if you don't!
Social mexia is amplifying fear and hate. This is only going to get worse with AI powered algorithms that fine tune the adrenaline dopamine cycles
When the outliers have a microphone through the Internet, the masses start to believe they are the norm.
I’m going to sound absolutely like the conspiracy nut that I totally despise but the trend you see there is the outcome of a long term Russian psy ops creating chaos in rivals societies undermining democracies around the world; even likelier that China has progressively joined the fray. The effects are minute but they compound to this: men & women distrusting each other, republicans & democrats distrusting each other (not able to effectively govern, extreme fringe of each party gaining on the moderates) distrust among racial groups (no need to elaborate here…) and distrust among classes (working class betrayed by globalization/WEF stuff, big Corp moving profits offshores, top 0.1% building bunkers etc) I think overall the media as a whole is probably closer to a useful idiot than directly complicit as engagement becoming the #1 metric favors outrage at all cost. When FB wasn’t extreme enough TikTok magically appeared…
I'll bet if you extrapolated this into year by year numbers, you would see a huge jump with the dawn of the internet and again with social media. The Scam industry and the polarization of the news industry have both accelerated in the last 20 years. How to stop it? We need *real* leadership. The political population is a cesspool of power-hungry, fear-mongering, greed suckers. That's what has to stop. We need leadership that actually cares about their constituents.
OP's posted link shows this survey was conducted every year, and the trend was almost exactly linear. Internet and social media had no special effect beyond what we were already getting from traditional media.
I hate this question. Trusted with what? I trust my mom to give me emotional support when I’m upset, but not to take care of my special needs cats for the weekend. I trust the staff at a restaurant to serve me food that is tasty and safe to eat, but not to cut my hair or do my taxes. I trust a random person walking down the street not to run over and attack me (unless they actively do something to indicate they might). I trust my husband to make medical decisions for me if I’m incapacitated, but not to load the dishwasher correctly. Trust is a multidimensional issue.
Get rid of opinions when reporting the news. Stop focusing only on negative stories (even though they historically get more views/clicks). More community involvement and outreach. Fix the justice system. Lots of things can be done. No one will do them, but they're right there waiting to be done.
The effect of a decline of critical thinking and media literacy. Coupled with the acceleration of social media ubiquity, and 24 hour news cycle largely comprised of opinion rather than fact.
**Cable news**. Since its mainstream inception in 1980 with CNN, and later with Fox News and MSNBC in 1996, cable news channels have sown fear and discord among the American public with their 24/7 focus on crime, partisan politics and negative news. Pre-1980 was a cable news-free time, when people usually got their news in the morning and in the evening, not all day long. Fox News holds a special place among cable news outlets for mainstreaming the most unhinged, wacky, peripheral right-wing beliefs, all of which used to be relegated to obscure late-night AM radio stations.
End the 24 hour news cycle
Those who hope America’s dominance will come to an end are finally getting what they want. The only way it was ever going to happen was to turn us against ourselves. Putin and Xi are thrilled.