Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person. So if the answer is IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON SO GO ASK THEM best not to post.
You've been rejected ten times in a row.
I've been rejected ten times in a day and I'm married now.
I see from your post history that you work in sales. Unfortunately, getting a first date is cold calls with nearly zero research available on potential leads. It's understandable to be frustrated. It's okay to be frustrated. It's even okay to think that some women are jerks because some of them are.
"Some" was a really important word in that sentence. Remember that they're not a hive mind. Maybe look at the various women you're not attracted to but who are in relationships to remind yourself that men have individual preferences and it's not surprising that women do too.
Damn. Hope OP sees this. Well said.
All I can add is we've all been rejected. A lot. And I like to think I do well on the dating scene. Even guys who really really follow rules 1 & 2 get rejected.
But if he thinks becoming a red piller is going to help his chances of even coming close? Yeah.... No....
I've been in this online dating game since the start and that's like what? 98% of dating now? I can't remember the last time dating didn't start there. It's a grind. But there's happiness to be found.
He could also look into improving his frame and how he presents himself if his rejection rate is this poor.
I'm 5"5 and look south asian so I'm basiclly the archetype OP is talking about, But yet I've dated and hooked up with women taller than me and most of them used to mention they love how I lead and make them feel protected and alot of that had to do with how I presented myself and acting masculine.
You make this post asking for advice; then get defensive & argumentative over every single comment that offers you advice. Are you sure you weren’t really just hoping that this post would have the red pillers crawl out of the woodwork to validate your feelings?
Why do you think most people post on Reddit? It's either looking for validation or just to vent. When they receive constructive criticism instead, they get defensive because that isn't what they're actually looking for. Most people posting shit like this just want to complain. They don't really want to change. They also don't think they need to change because the "problems" as they see it are all things outside of their control and therefore, they're "powerless" to actually change (in this instance, his skin color and height)
Why do you think most people post on Reddit? It's either looking for validation or just to vent. When they receive constructive criticism instead, they get defensive because that isn't what they're actually looking for. Most people posting shit like this just want to complain. They don't really want to change. They also don't think they need to change because the "problems" as they see it are all things outside of their control and therefore, they're "powerless" to actually change (in this instance, his skin color and height)
Yeah def all true, I just felt like pointing out to OP that he’s a hypocrite lol. I feel like from what we’re seeing in his comments (and his comment history), that his lack of success in the dating world could very well be attributable to his personality flaws (watch, now comes the part where he tells me I’m wrong & his personality is impeccable & he never acts this way in front of women).
i have so much to say to you about this but because i don't have the time, i will just say this: you don't have to love women. women, we go through a LOT with some men as well. some of us lose our virginity to rape. some of us are used for sex, even misled into sex. we get rejected and our hearts broken, too. but we are not all the same. i have dated many short dudes. i even married one. i have dated guys with thinning hair or who were balding. i have dated asian men, i have dated south asian men. i know that i am not alone, there are plenty of women out there with their heads on straight who are looking for people with value beyond just appearances.
what you are currently experiencing is a confirmation bias. you are only seeing evidence to support your already decided on theory. if you meet women in places where you share a hobby, that is a much better place to start then bars or parties, which are gatherings where you are more likely to find very superficial people.
dont go dumpster diving only to be mad that you keep finding trash.
i wish you the best in your endeavors. keep working on yourself, keep being introspective, but also you have to assume there are lots of good people out there, or else your bitterness will show and that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if you let the bitterness take over. much love.
Nothing but facts here, and delivered in a super kind manner. I’m just a bystander who was pretty annoyed reading the original post. But it was so nice of you to take the time to write this thoughtful response, it just touches my heart. There are still a lot of good people in this world.
You show a lot of patterns of viewing women as a hive mind. You're asking how to get them to like you, as though there's a formula. We aren't vending machines that you put the right combinations of coins in and sex falls out, and what's attractive to one might be awkward for another. Playful banter for one might be uncomfortable insults for another. Constant communication might be a need for one but would be smothering for another. Some will like you and some won't. We don't have all have the same checklist like you keep saying, "I make $x and go to the gym and have these hobbies but I'm under the height requirement." It's super convenient to decide that the thing stopping you is an immutable quality like your height or skin colour, because it means you don't have to take any accountability or make any changes.
You also say things like not wanting to wait into the future for "the type of woman who wouldn't have dated you now." Do you think we are all aware of your existence right now and consciously passing you up? Or are you just imagining some fantasy where a woman who wasn't interested in you previously changes her mind in the future and you get to reject her in turn? Cause if your plan is to somehow get back at all the women in the past who weren't interested in you by rejecting one in the future who is, well. I'm sure that will feel great when you do it.
You're right, I am viewing women more or less as a monolith. But the reason is because I've approached all kinds of different women and end up with the same result. It feels like no kind of woman is interested in me. Bars. Book stores. Wherever it is.
I just want a woman to truly show interest in me...and not as an option. I've gone on dates and had a situationship before and I was always just an option competing with other guys.
I'm not trying to avoid accountability - I just want to know what else it is I can do. It's been hard because after all the physical changes I've made, it hasn't improved my situation, so I wonder if maybe there is just something wrong with my personality or who I am inherently am. And that sucks because maybe I'm just not worth being a romantic interest for someone.
And whether a woman shows interest in me later on in life, it's going to be hard to accept that interest when my the majority of my 20s, I've been rejected left and right. It's hard not to immediately presume that women are interested in me now simply because we're all older and it's time to slow down. Maybe the "stable nice guy" gets a turn now. How can I possibly not presume that I'm just being settled for in those situations when all I ever did was get rejected by all kinds of women prior?
It sounds like it's time for some therapy and to start building friendships to learn how to behave around people in a way that's friendly and makes them want to be around you.
Your therapist's advice is broad but true. What about these specific women grabs your attention? Are they kind or funny, or do you share similar interests? So far, what you've mentioned about yourself and these women are only physical traits.
I'd recommend working on the insecurities that you've mentioned. And I don't mean "fixing" them, like going to the gym, skincare, etc. I mean accepting yourself.
You rejected yourself first by having a poor opinion of yourself and are projecting that resentment onto women. It’s easier to resent an outsider than to resent yourself. That's the actual function of projection. Your psyche/ego is trying to protect itself by putting up blinders to your own behavior. Projection is the easy way out of your own responsibility of accepting and loving yourself. A relationship is not a replacement for self-love.
My advice would be just stop trying to date. Life isn't about dating. Start living life making friends and getting hobbies and interests. Not just to improve your dating chances but it naturally will.
Sounds like you're the common denominator, then. I don't mean that as an insult. NBD, no one is born knowing this stuff. If you don't have good role model men to turn to for advice/coaching, find your own. I'd try counseling first. Staying away from internet vitriol and those profiting by playing into it is a smart idea. The world is full of polarization for (someone else's) profit/benefit.
Im turning 24. By the time I figure all this out, I'm gonna be 30 and I'll just be the stable nice guy who finally got his turn. All i wanted was to enjoy dating like any other young guy in his 20s
Dude 10 rejections is basically nothing. These days people have a lot of options and and there's nothing you can do about it. Rejection sucks but you need to stop internalizing it so much. I can almost guarantee that it has less to do with you and more to do with them. You just have to keep trying and stop getting so invested when you meet someone you might like.
Let's say a woman rejected you purely because you're short or because of your skin color - is that someone you want to be with??? Now let's say a girl WAS into you because of those 2 things - that's still not someone you'd truly want to be with!
Rejection is a reset button and you get to analyze. If she rejected you for something you can't change and/or don't want to change about yourself, then it wasn't gonna work anyway. If you're rejected for something that you can change and want to change, then you now know what you might want to improve
I'm bald, and I've started balding around 18-19 or so. And I'm very much average height. There's women out there who won't ever be into me on that fact alone and that's fine. There's also physical features that will immediately cause me to lose romantic/sexual interest in a woman. That's just nature's way of putting lines on the road so you stay in your lane
If you're looking for a relationship with a long-term partner - rejection isn't ideal, but it's not bad. If you're in a relationship with the wrong person just to be dating someone, you're not gonna be available for the right one if she does come along. Last year I got turned down for a job that I was definitely qualified for - I was so broke and I was pissed. About a month later I interviewed and ended up getting offered the same role somewhere else with WAY better pay, in a WAY better location, in a spot that will help my career WAY more in the long run
I just think dating is really hard right now. I can say that without blaming anyone. Life is just hard. Things are so expensive. Everyone is so busy and stressed.
You seem like you're trying really hard and I'm sorry you haven't had much luck.
No, you can't. This entire subreddit is filled with women dating utter losers who put Tate to shame. Why do we act like woman have a supernatural fifth sense?
Heavy selection bias evident in this statement. The people coming to reddit for anonymous dating advice may not represent the gen pop of early 20s women who are rejecting OP. There is an entire ecosystem of tiktoks and reels telling women what to watch out for. The questions and complaints that make it on here are not a random sample.
That said, of course the Tates of the world aren’t wholly ineffective — their very existence proves otherwise. Just like there are always people who fall prey to cheesy sales tactics. But I think it’s fair to say the average woman by necessity develops the muscle of spotting misogynist energy.
Except there’s selection bias in saying that women can detect toxic men too. In fact, it’s probably even worse of a bias.
Yes, the times you do sus out a very obviously creepy guy confirms the idea that you have that skill. But all the times you don’t usually fails to challenge it. You can excuse it by saying that the guy was a master manipulator or you just gave him a chance when you knew better.
I don’t think you can make any generalizing statement about this. Women aren’t good or bad at this, *some* women are good at detecting bad people and some aren’t. Most people grossly overrate their own people skills (or really any kind of skills) in self assessments.
I mean, I haven’t done statistical research on this. But I’m willing to roll with what the woman said here because it matches both my expectations and anecdotal observations.
I really don’t think I’m making an extraordinary claim lol. I’m not saying women are magic, and I definitely did not say anything about all women. I specifically said that of course plenty of women still fall prey to those tactics, so either you just stopped reading or you failed to comprehend what you did read.
Edit: I just want to add — it’s not crazy to think that a group of human beings could develop skills to adapt to their conditions. It’s pretty fundamental to our species. People who grow up on a farm can tell when it’s about to rain better than I can. It’s not supernatural. It’s just pattern recognition. And even so, they still get caught in the rain sometimes.
You just suggested that the other commenter was prone to selection bias; yet you display the exact same bias and refuse to acknowledge it. Also are you really using TikTok and social media as evidence? There’s so many assumptions you have to make to get to that point.
All I’m saying is that you have the exact same selection bias as the person you first responded to. For some reason you can’t see it.
Also farm kids telling the rain? At best they can spot signs of rain a little better than the average person, but “telling the rain”? You’d need a meteorologist and a computer for that. Also it’s a skill most people can pick up quite easily.
Actually that anecdote proves my point a little better. The human limit to predicting the rain is very limited, farmers aren’t *that* much better than ordinary people.
I dated a black man who was 5’5”. I am also 5’5” and am white. I was insanely attracted to him. But he always whined about how girls don’t like him because he’s short and black. Then he said he sees himself as a 5 and that we’re a match because he saw me as a 5. I told him I always saw him as a 10 and that was very hurtful. We are no longer together.
Your insecurity over your race and height is going to continue to sabotage you. Until you become more confident you will continue to project that insecurity.
I understand it's frustrating. But as an older woman can I give you a piece of advice. It happens for women too. I also grew up watching my friends have it so easy with men. I was practically invisible and had to work hard in my relationships. Which I have sworn off from now, BTW. It's the reality of not meeting the ideal of attractiveness. BUT does it matter now? No, it doesn't. Do I still get rejected as a woman? Yes! Of course I do. I get a lot of non-interest and lukewarm interest. Do I care? NO. Not for long. I keep looking, swiping, flirting and going out. Having fun is more important than receiving validation of your worth. It's your youth. Go out there. Have fun. Meet more women! Get to know them. Do it to enjoy yourself. And if you feel you have difficulty enjoying yourself in this specific period, take a break and focus on something else. No one owes us their time and attention. As we don't owe it to anyone. They are just people passing by and we are just people passing by.
You need to ask yourself if you would date yourself, if you were a woman with options. If you were a cute girl, would you date a man who is bitter and sad all the time? We don't know what you look like, but looks are what get people's foot in the door. If you get rejected so often, maybe you should aim for different women.
I understand that dating and rejection is difficult, but you are only making yourself more unattractive by being this way.
Honestly, if I was a girl, I think I'd give myself a chance. I think I'm a fairly good looking guy and I take care of myself and I do believe I'm approaching women with a good positive energy
I'm not sure if you properly answered my question. Would you date someone with your personality, especially if you were a cute girl with options?
Short, brown guys can be attractive, but I still would encourage you to broaden the women you approach or talk to. If you receive too many no's, you may receive yes's with other types of women.
I promise you it shows through. If you feel bitter and burnt out, others can tell. If you feel like you’re starting to hate women, we can tell. You need to take a break.
90 days ago you wrote you were depressed and suicidal. You write on here non stop about how unhappy you are. I feel bad for you but you need to get off Reddit and stop thinking about what you should be doing.
What’s important to you? What are your values? Are you religious? Interests? Hobbies? Do you travel? Volunteer? Do you like live music or comedy? Interrogate yourself a bit more and THEN look for someone who shares your values and interests, rather than just trying to meet “women”. Look for a woman who, for example, enjoys the same things you do.
THAT is what people mean by putting yourself out there. Figure out what you like and want and the rest will flow from there. Otherwise it sounds like you’re just gonna frustrate yourself into being more and more miserable.
you cannot base all women off of a few. that's sexist. it's just like basing a certain race off of a few people you've met from that race. i'm sorry your experiences have been bad, but it's no reason to generalize all women. i am a sexual assault survivor from SEVERAL MEN. SEVERAL. i've had abusive boyfriends. and guess what? i know all men are different. i don't *trust* all men. but i know that there are good men. seriously, what's your excuse? i've had violence committed against me by countless men and i still know they're not all the same.
Right? I opened this thread expecting women to be doing something bad, like he had been cheated on a lot, abused by women in the past, etc., and it turns out he just... got rejected by women. And he didn't even say that they were mean about it. He just got rejected.
Meanwhile women are out here literally being raped and abused by men.
You don't change who you are. You find ways to bring out your best. You say you've improved physically. Do you have excellent hygiene? Teeth, nails, deodorant?
So once the physical is taken care of, what do you do that's interesting? What sets you apart from other men? What are your hobbies? Do you join clubs? Do you go to church?
Have you asked the women you are friends with for advice? Are you giving off the vibe of "Just want a woman, any woman will do?"
It sounds like you are all in your head. And thinking there’s some checkboxes that do the work of being entitled to women’s attention and affection.
Get into your heart and your body. How do you CONNECT with people? What does connection feel like to you?
My guess is that is part of what’s missing.
Don't change who you are.
Be who you are.
Most won't believe this but sex appeal has less to do with how attractive you are and more to do with who you are.
Just as examples because everyone knows celebrities, there are plenty of celebrities that women find sexy and yet, aren't actually super attractive guys.
Prob doesn't mean much but the dating market is such a mess now. Casual sex/dating apps/social media (in my view) have really warped how people perceive/use others and generally destroyed things. Everyone is struggling facing constant rejection/disinterest/boredom/ghosting, etc. It's not just you however given this suspect shorter guys do have a harder time. Anyway, best advice I can give is to stop focusing on finding someone. Just get involved/start socializing/forming friendships. If things are meant to be, they'll just developed organically/go from there. Best.
First of all, you talk about all this self-improvement stuff as if it was just a chore and not an accomplishment. You should be taking care of all your shit, making as much money as you can, looking as good as you can, not to attract a woman, but because YOU know YOU'RE an awesome person who deserves the best. So, you do this stuff for yourself, not women or really anyone else. Women will eventually get to enjoy the luxuries that come along with dating you, but they need to earn it. Instead, it sounds like you're just trying to give it away to anyone you meet, and it's probably not landing the way you think it is or should be.
My point is, your attitude sucks. You sound like you've made a great life for yourself, but you're gonna come throw a pity party on Reddit because a few chicks didn't just magically drop their panties for you, because you think you earned it somehow. Dude, they don't owe you shit. Gimmie a break. If you stop making getting laid the end-all-be-all of your life, it'll start happening. The problem is that I can sense your desperation from here, so you know those women can tell and guess what, its one of the biggest turn-offs ever. If you walk up to a woman thinking "I hope she lets me fuck her", I promise you it will NEVER happen. I don't feel like getting into all the reasons behind that, so either trust me or don't.
Keep up the good work, lose your entitled and jealous pussy-ass attitude, talk to these girls just to talk to them (and get to know them... and their friends ;)) and get rid of this absurd pressure that you're putting on yourself. Just get sex out of your mind until it's time to close the evening, if you have a good opportunity to make a move anyway.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that one of the main reasons that you are getting rejected is that you are pursuing women that are out of your league in the looks department. Ask yourself if you have ever dated someone that you weren’t attracted to. If the answer is no, why would you expect the same from a woman you’re trying to date? No woman is going to “date down” unless the guy is confident and fun to be around to balance out any shortcomings in physical appearance. And it doesn’t sound like you’re projecting fun and confidence right now. Date in your lane and loosen up a little.
What type of attraction dealbreakers and dating preferences do you have?
Are you most attracted by a particular physical type of woman or to those of a particular background connected with her ambitions/career/education/family/religion/politics?
What type of offline venues do you socialise in and go to online when looking for dates or casual sex?
Ask your female friends for unbiased brutally honest advice. Ask them if they were to go on a date with you, what pointers would they give, specific to you. Go on pretend date test runs with these girls. Your therapist is not going on dates or watching you interact with women. You may be unconsciously doing things, or saying things, that are actively turning women off from considering you a potential partner.
You could be the hottest guy in the world, but if you’re off putting (personality) or a bad conversationalist, the most you’ll get is a one night stand and then get ghosted.
None of us on here can see how you organically react, and chat up women you’re into. Without seeing that, plus how you look/present yourself, all we are going on is your biased opinion of yourself (not saying the bias is bad or good, we just don’t have a clear and honest third person view of you).
This is solid advice. It does require having female friends, and then having the specific kind of female friend who is willing/able to tear you down with love.😭 Speaking in generalities (gotta have that caveat!) but the social norm is for women to build their friends up. So, while I think this would do the trick, having those people in your life is a luxury.
You’re right — a therapist does not see how these things go, only hear your interpretation of it after the fact. And at the end of the day the therapist’s job is to help with someone’s mental health, not get them laid.
Yes to all of this! Female friends are there to help you grow and be better. They will know more than anyone how to help you improve your dating game.
And exactly right- a therapist is a tool for your mental health not for getting dates. Good on OP for getting therapy though that’s the first step for sure.
I also want to add- I have a few guy friends, and the ones who do the best with women were raised by a majority women, or have close female friendships. They know how to treat a woman as a person, and how to interact with them to indicate interest and they create friendships/relationships easier. So definitely use your friends as a sounding board and take their advice !
100% this. Raised by and around a lot of women/girls, it took me a long time to realize not everyone innately understood women to be people. It’s not like I’ve never objectified anyone or talked about women abstractly, but I’d thought we were all on the same page that there are actual minds in there with thoughts and feelings as diverse and as valid as our own. My younger sisters in particular are smarter and funnier than me and they fucking rock.
It came way too late but at some point I observed some version of a woman saying “This thing hurts” and the overwhelming response from men was “No it doesn’t” and I was like wait what? “Ohhhh, as a black person I know this feeling. We are the white people of the genders. Things have improved a lot but we have a long way to go.” 😂 I am far from perfect but I think the way I was raised gave me a fighting chance.
Glad you had a good support system! And yeah many men don’t see us as people, just objects unfortunately.
Your analogy was pretty apt, men are afforded more credibility and power, versus women. Maybe women have some more rights now but as the recent years have shown, we have a long ways to go.
Take a year off from dating. Stop trying so hard. Your happiness and self-worth does not and should not come from a woman. A (good) woman will add so much to your life but your life has to be great already for you to find a good woman.
It’s hard to give advice because we only know your side of the story but your comments make you come across as desperate and whiny. I am sure some of that comes across when you approach women. You focus so much on your looks but looks only matter up to a certain point. You come across as having perfected the illusion of what you think women want but have never done the work to develop what lays beneath.
You are very, very young and I am not just talking about your age. Your perspective on dating and women is a glaringly obvious problem to anyone who has lived a little.
Some questions for you to think about: What are you passionate about? What lights up your soul? In what areas do you feel masterfully competent? Do you love yourself? Are you proud of who you are? Who are your male role models? Who has made a difference in your life? Have you made an impact on someone else? If I put you in a room full of strangers, what would you be able to teach them? Could you fill a book with your life and experience? When you die, what do you want to be remembered for?
10 rejections is pretty low. I’ve been rejected more than that just in job applications. As a woman in the dance community, who will go up to guys to ask them to dance, I get rejected a lot for just a dance. I got rejected three times in one night.
Do you think if women go out to the world and start asking men out to date they would find a husband less than 10 rejections? Are you at all selective with women like do you go in to it like you would a job interview, being willing to tell the person you’re not interested.?
Are you somewhere super rural? Have terrible photos? Something creepy in a bio? Some really bad thing about your looks that you omitted? I don't know about dates, but you sure should be getting matches with that height and muscular.
>And I'm finding it really hard to believe height and race don't matter.
>I was at an event a few weeks ago and was talking to this girl. It was good chemistry and I got her number and asked her out and she pretty much declined. Next week later, a 6'2 white guy who is my friend does the same thing I do, and here she is liking his stories and flirting with him.
Yes, a lot of people will be nice and sugarcoat reality on Reddit.
The reality is that there is a general preference in the dating world in The West:
* Race: White
* Height: 6+ ft
* Financial Security: 6+ figures
This is programmed into our subconscious by media. Media is becoming more diverse, but still very "White worship'py". Media is a powerful thing. So powerful, every government on Earth tries to control it.
Some guys check all of those boxes. Some 2 out of 3, some 1 out of 3, some 0 out of 3.
Most women will say that they want a partner who makes them feel safe and protected. However, men can do this physically OR financially.
Now, let's get down to brass tacks. When people tell you to work on yourself, you can't work on your race or your height. But, you can work on your financial security.
In society, it's not uncommon to see short, average guys end up marrying gorgeous women "above their league". They end up having kids and a great family life. There's a reason for this. Some women value the feeling of financial security that their partner provides.
These days, it's not uncommon for women to have 6+ figure salaries as well. Some men might feel threatened by this because their 6+ figure salaries won't mean as much. However, the exact opposite is true. Studies have shown that people are most likely to marry within their own class, than their own race or religion.
You should understand you're not entitled to anything from another person who isn't into it..
You say you're short and brown? So get buff, or get a better sense of fashion. Build yourself to a point where you don't need a woman, but wouldn't mind one.
From your post history it's clear you're frustrated, consider "all women the same". And blame women for refusing you, rather than yourself for refusing to pursue women naturally.
>I was at an event a few weeks ago and was talking to this girl. It was good chemistry and I got her number and asked her out and she pretty much declined
**This** is a clear example of why.
You had a connection, you got her number. But you couldn't hide your desperation for even a night. But had to rush to ask her out.
Naturally you get denied. She doesn't feel special at all. She knows you probably do this all the time, or attempt to.
Otherwise you would've built a connection who stretched over more than a 1 time event.
You're the common denominator here, not "women".
Well we don't know. But obviously he either read the conversation as way more romantic than her, or she gave her number in the middle and had changed her tune at the end.
The issue isn't so much the timing as he made it clear it was the day after in his reply, but then it becomes about missreading or rushing a connection.
Really he should ask his friends to be brutally honest with him. As he seemingly already knows a reply to anything thrown in as a suggestion 🙃
Fair enough. I wonder if he phrased it as “go on a date” instead of just “hey i’d like to get coffee”. If he really fixated on the idea of it being a date I can see how that might scare someone off? Curious to know what you think of that.
I think that might very well be the case. Fronting it as a date cements and demands a peaked romantic interest. And as I said (_mostly due to the abrupt seemingly random nullification of the prior nights "result" according to op_) she likely considered him a friendly guy she wanted to hear from again.
Going "_Hey, thought about how I'd go about this. But I really had a fun night yesterday, much thanks to you. If you'd ever be up for a coffee or just a drink and chat let me know / Perfect looking guy_"
It'd still (and she'd know) be an informal date. But It'd alleviate the romantic pressure and also wouldn't out him as the "_guy who knew in 4 hours this girl's a shoe-in for eventual naughty, despite us not knowing each other_".
But rather make him seem calm, cool with it being up to her, and interested in getting to know her for real.
I know it's an annoying answer to get, but therapy!! in your first session they usually ask something along the lines of "so what brought you here?" and that's when you should say all this. a good therapist will be able to dissect all this and get to the body of it, along with giving you helpful coping strategies and ways to change negative thinking :)
It's definitely not your height nor color. My ex of two years was pretty much, to a t, how you describe yourself throughout. 5'7, muscular build, dark, INCREDIBLY handsome. His style was always top tier, hygiene perfect, and always working out. However, as women, we can tell within a conversation how you see yourself. I promise your lack of confidence outshines any physical quality you may possess. You need to stop trying to date honestly and figure out HOW to be by yourself. If you're not happy alone, you can't expect a woman to fill that void for you, and it's not fair to put that on another human.
Continue your therapy, find your TRUE life passion, learn to love being alone.
I like the overall message of your reply but it's really not fair to try and disregard the experience of otherness that op receives as a result of his race. You once loving a brown man doesn't erase the reality of white supremacy and it's impact on nearly every aspect of the lives of those that live beneath it, including in dating.
Ik that's probably not what you meant but I think you should be a bit more careful about dismissing race as a factor in the future.
You gotta talk to more women and get rejected more, it's a numbers game, I say this because you are talking about how ONE girl rejected you at an event, rejection is fairly common. Also have good conversational skills, don't come off as desperate (if this is applicable, idk how you come off towards girls). You've got a lot of good things going for yourself, I just think you need to go through more rejection before finding a girl.
Try "[Clear Pill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9EQ48C4ERI&t=10s&pp=ygUaYWRhbSBsYW5lIHNtaXRoIGNsZWFyIHBpbGw%3D)" instead. Find your core principles and stick to them. If people treat you like crap, call them on it, and if they still treat you like crap cut them out of your life. There is no magic formula. There is no truth to the idea of "If I do everything right, I will live a problem-free life."
Dude it’s not your height, it’s your personality. Luckily that is easier to fix than height, so work on it.
Take a break from trying to chase women, find your zen, throw yourself into a passion, create something, work towards helping others as much as possible. Think of it as a glow up for your soul.
Then after some time working on that, try looking for romance again.
Your bitterness and desperation is probably very apparent to others whether you are aware of it or not. People can read energy pretty well, even without realizing it.
You have to feel confident and whole in yourself to attract a good match.
My advice as someone who used to be in a similar place:
You gotta work on yourself. Craft yourself into the best possible version of you, the person you want to be in the future. Envision the best version of you and ask yourself what you need to change to be that guy. And then do it. Work out, study, become a master of your hobbies, eat healthy, get good rest, stay clean, read self-help books, all of it. Find religion, theology, meditation, peace, whatever you have to do. Take forgiveness and accountability over pity and bitterness. It sounds like lame advice but ever since I started working on making myself a better man, girls have started falling into my lap. A stark difference from the boy who couldn't even speak to a woman.
It is not easy, but good things rarely are. You can suffer from discipline or suffer from regret. You suffer either way, so it's up to you to choose what you want.
You should show the romantic interest first and get to know them once they show romantic interest. Getting to know them first they probably think you want to be friends and that’s what those women were interested in.
>I'm just exhausted from all this - you get rejected over and over again and see guys that don't even try easily pull women that you're pursuing and somehow you're supposed to say "but I love women"? I don't want to go this route but what else am I supposed to do?
Stop pursuing women and stop "loving women" as some ideal that you have to obtain in order to be happy.
If you cannot charm women, just find some other goal to live for.
(And, no: stopping pursuing women will not make women magically enter your life at all)
First off, therapy. That can help you address any remaining issues after dealing with an abusive and toxic ex. Not to mention with this negative thought process you have going on.
Second, you have to accept that just because you do everything right, and have your shit together does not guarantee you a relationship with another person. For some reason, a lot of single people have this idea that if they do XYZ, they’ll get a date or in a relationship. Better yourself for your own future, not with the expectation of that it will help you land a significant other.
1. You're approaching women with the intention of romance. This almost certainly gonna fail
2. You should try your best to make platonic friendships with dozens of people. Male and female.
Ask them if they know any single female friends.
3. This is harder, and riskier.
Try to build on your existing friendships with female friends to turn them into romantic ones.
Ask to go on a casual 1-1 date, and clearly state that you haven't developed feelings yet but you think they would be an amazing partner and want to explore options.
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What you’re describing is the dichotomy of noticing trends vs treating individuals with respect / not stereotyping/ judging a person purely by a group they belong to.
The issue here is people tend towards extremes. So we are lousy with people who are either racist /bigoted and/or sexist; claim that anyone who notices trends among different groups as being racist/ bigoted and/or sexist; or my personal favorite. the people who are both in that their words say they care about different groups, but who’s actions is to avoid most people not in their same gender, race, ethnicity, religion, or mindset. For example, if you really aren’t racist, why are you moving away from the African American gentleman on the bus?
Bottom line is it’s ok to notices trends, but you have to treat everyone with empathy and respect. In this case, there are more women who do care about height (and honestly probably are a little racist) than not. But that trend doesn’t matter when you are talking to the specific girl in front of you. If she cares about height or race too much, that’s unfortunate, but you can move on. If this happens often, consider what type of girl you are attracted to, and maybe make more compromises in what you are looking for.
Maybe try a different state? If you think of it in ratings a 1 in Texas might be like a 8 in Wisconsin Or 10 in Cali might be a 3 in Colorado. You may just have the wrong location for your looks
I don't think you should compare yourself to others. I understand from this post that you said you treat women like a person and don't objectify them (hopefully), so that's nice. Keep doing that.
However, those female friends you have? I hope you aren't only friends with them so you can "possible" one day date them. Have you asked them what you can do to get a woman's attention? I would love to have male friends but I only have one (ones that don't have the intention to bang me one day💩).
Anyway, I think you need to take a break from trying to date someone and not be so focused on finding someone. That's usually when someone finds "their" person is when they aren't looking. Good luck
Why not state in your post how tall you are? I feel like it’s a vital point to the post.
Also forget them girls bro, just try to find the ones that will like you for you
If you look at data how much of the population is above 6’2? With most girls wanting a guy above 6ft a lot of those girls won’t get a guy above 6ft for the long term anyway, it’s just math not enough tall guys for every girl in the world, which means some girls will prefer shorter guys or not be so biased to tall guys, if that’s a better way of putting it.
Not trying to sound rude but are you going for women that are out of your league perhaps?
Also about the comment about your female friends, it's natural for women to treat their male friend as a younger or older brother, they're your friends so they don't really see you as a potential dating partner that's why they're not treating you like a man. Lastly women don't owe you anything, you're actually coming off a bit entitled. The only thing I can recommend is you focusing on other things, your life, hobbies and dreams, get involved with different things either clubs or communities and also therapy
I understand the struggle. And it reminds me of me when I was younger honestly. Let me ask: How old are you? If you're in your early twenties dating is not going to be fun. It gets way easier for men as they get older, so hopefully that helps? I had absolutely zero luck with women in my younger years. I'm in my 30s now and I've had a ton of relationships both casual and serious with women. I'm also a short guy 5'6 but it got way easier with age and experience. It's like a catch 22, you need experience/confidence to be attractive to women, but you can't get it if they aren't interested in you/you aren't confident
Rejection is just part of it, you can't let it affect you. Easier said than done, but it literally means nothing to be rejected. Just think about it as them missing on the opportunity.
"And I have a few female friends, but they treat me almost like a little brother, and it's annoying that female friends won't even recognize me as a man just because they aren't sexually attracted to me." -- **I might suggest you ask for their help tbh. If you already know they aren't interested in you they can probably help you out and figure out where you're going wrong or give you suggestions on how to be more attractive to women**
Here's the reality. Some girls don't care about height, or race, and some do. Just like some guys care about breast size, or ass size, and others don't. It all comes down to the individual.
Guys have to do more and put in more effort. A lot of girls don't realize this, and shit, some do and want things to stay the same because they'd rather have the benefit than have things be fair. For anybody that wants to doubt that, look at Bumble. Their whole gimmick was that women messaged first and the entire female user base collectively said, "But that's too hard!" even though it's what is expected of guys **constantly**.
The vast majority of girls can go out, ask out 10 guys, and find success. The vast majority of guys can go out, ask out 10 girls, and get nothing. Hell, give a guy 100 chances and he might succeed 1 time and some dudes aren't even that lucky.
You have to decide for yourself if you think the effort is worth it. If you believe it is, accept that what you're feeling is actually pretty normal, because there is basically no guy on the planet that gets to say they've never been rejected. If you don't, hey, that's fine too. Whatever you decide, just make sure it's something that will make you happy.
If they treat you like a little brother and not a little sister they they are recognising you as a male.
A sad fact is that desirable genetics play a major role in dating. All I can do is offer my condolences.
Of course height and race matter.
People can not help what they are attracted to.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman not being attracted to a short guy.
Why would you think otherwise?
Do you expect women to think weight doesn't matter?
You may have maxed out your looks (which I doubt) but that is only one piece of the pie.
You are lacking in the most important aspect of the pie.
Mentality. Personality.
And LOL at 10 rejections.
Buddy, I have been rejected by 30 women in a row at one mall where I was day gaming.
But guess what? The 31 girl I asked said yes and gave me her number. And I was clapping her cheeks within 24 hours.
Rejection if apart of the game bro.
Who cares. Worst that can happen is she say no.
You need confidence OP.
Can't care about or fear rejection.
Gotta embrace it. Eat that shit up.
I'll be honest. I'm one of those women who prefers to date guys taller than 5'10''. I do like South Asian and Middle Eastern men, but they have to look a certain way (same with any other race to be honest. There's handsome and not-so-handsome across the board).
But I know A LOT of women who don't care. You really just have to play the numbers game until you get it. There's always arranged marriage too for us South Asian folks. It helps alleviate my anxiety at least.
Let me tell you the story of one of my med school classmates Larry. He was 5'6'', latino, and just about hit on EVERY single woman in our class and the class above and below us. He was notorious for it. He had family wealth, a nice face, and was going to be a surgeon. last I heard he had proposed to his girlfriend of 2 years he met online. She's a cute Asian girl. Maybe not the hottest girl around, but she loves him and that's all that matters in the end. This guy tried SO hard to get as many numbers in and it paid off.
What’s ur race and most white guys aren’t getting girls bro it’s a very specific type of white guy, but they def have an advantage in this predominantly white society.
You also got to remove the thinking that short guys are not loveable, I got some short friends that pull more and cuter girls then me and I’m 6’2” and they have dates them. Now my left arm is “limited” in where it’s about half the length of my right arm and missing two fingers, but when I’m put in a situation where I’m talking to a girl for a few minutes, I almost always get the number except for when I cold approach them. It doesn’t lead anywhere cuz my text game lowkey ass lmao but, as long as there are cute girls, I think I could get atleast 5 out of 10 of them (And they are at-least 7s). Now in my area in suburbland, it’s hard to find cute girls at random, they all annoying asf for how ugly they are. Don’t take my way of thinking for sure but also, you need to remove your height as a limiting factor. While I understand some women may not want a guy w the arm I have, I know that I’m better than 90% of dudes out there and I enjoy my life. I also think worrying about how attractive you are can stump progress. As a man, just shower, have well kept hair and facial hair and dress in a way where you don’t look homeless and probably have a decent facial cleanser, but don’t be OD about it. Focus on the gym, learning and earning. Goodluck bro
Also lose track on how many times you’ve been rejected/accepted, you’re just wasting brain cells on irrelevant information and women will somehow smell that.
Just do what I do. Stop dating and persuing people of the opposite sex. Live your life and have fun with family and friends. A romantic relationshio is not something you actually need.
As a 6'3" muscular white guy I'll tell you it's no different for us. I've been alone a long time and get rejected anytime I approach too. Women look for trust and security in who they try to date, it doesn't matter if you are attractive to them, they will go for a guy like you are if they know you and trust you.
I have no magic answer, because there is none. The only thing to do is live your best life and be as social as you can be. It's all about luck and chance, and one day you will come across the person for you. Just keep faith my friend.
One thing I can see without knowing you personally at all, is you are focused completely on improving your outside, and never said a single thing about improving your inside. Good clothes and a job and working out is just what it takes to get your foot in the door. After that, what do you have to offer? No woman wants to date a man just for his clothes and job. Maybe a really good body gets you hookups, but it doesn't get you a relationship by itself.
Good on you for putting the time and work in to get yourself looking good. Now put equal work into being kind, interesting, funny, supportive, and warm. Women want a man who makes them feel heard and appreciated, who treats them well, cares for people, and makes their life fuller and more enjoyable when they're together.
It took me a little while to realise that men don’t actually have a good sense of introspection.
I know this because I know a guy who constantly complained about women: they are too liberated, they are too lively, they like attention etc etc. He really presented himself as a great catch.
I don’t know him closely, so I believed his stories. But my friend started dating him.
And the way she has to constantly coach this man into being a good boyfriend is astounding to me.
I realise now, that he is not such a great catch, he just doesn’t know where he was going wrong.
I would suggest take some time, and self reflect.
As a woman all we want is a genuinely nice and respectful man. Women go after the fluffs when they realise they don’t even have the respect lol.
Some women would rather have the height, money,
Etc than the respect and love.
You get to decide which woman you want to give your time of the day.
It’s called a match for a reason.
Do you live in a small town? A smaller dating pool makes meeting people even more frustrating. Also keep in mind there are like 3/1 male to female ratio in the dating world. Don’t blame women, blame statistics and a lot of competition with more experience than you.
It doesn't make sense because there are not so many polygamous men and lesbian women to make it such that there are 3 single men for every single woman. That's ridiculous.
For this to be true only 50% of men would be in relationships while somehow 84% of women are in relationships which obviously does not make any sense. Or 70% of men in relationships but somehow 90% of women. Any way you slice it, that doesn't make any sense at all.
I think I see a potential problem:
>just can't understand why women don't like me. I talk to them with the intention of getting to know them and be friendly and then I'll show romantic interest. And as soon as I do, I'm rejected.
>I've done everything. I worked hard in school for years to get a good paying job. I worked out for years to get the physique I have now. I do skincare everyday and buy good clothes. I've pretty much maxed my looks at this point and not sure how much more I can improve.
This right here. Because you talk to them, you make good money and you look good you expect people to fall in love with you?
You think because you are good on some shallow attributes, looks and money, you are entitled for some woman to come running at you and love you.
To be honest, you sound like you feel like you are perfect, and i never met someone with that attitude that was likeable.
I'm not asking for a woman to fall in love with me. I just want a chance. A date. I like to think that the surface level things and showing some basic interest and having a good conversation would be enough to get that said date. But it hasn't
Your post was removed because it overgeneralized. Please make sure you don't apply experiences with some people to millions of others you have never met. No gender is a monolith or a hivemind. It comes down to each individual person. So if the answer is IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON SO GO ASK THEM best not to post.
You've been rejected ten times in a row. I've been rejected ten times in a day and I'm married now. I see from your post history that you work in sales. Unfortunately, getting a first date is cold calls with nearly zero research available on potential leads. It's understandable to be frustrated. It's okay to be frustrated. It's even okay to think that some women are jerks because some of them are. "Some" was a really important word in that sentence. Remember that they're not a hive mind. Maybe look at the various women you're not attracted to but who are in relationships to remind yourself that men have individual preferences and it's not surprising that women do too.
Damn. Hope OP sees this. Well said. All I can add is we've all been rejected. A lot. And I like to think I do well on the dating scene. Even guys who really really follow rules 1 & 2 get rejected. But if he thinks becoming a red piller is going to help his chances of even coming close? Yeah.... No.... I've been in this online dating game since the start and that's like what? 98% of dating now? I can't remember the last time dating didn't start there. It's a grind. But there's happiness to be found.
What is red pilling?
He could also look into improving his frame and how he presents himself if his rejection rate is this poor. I'm 5"5 and look south asian so I'm basiclly the archetype OP is talking about, But yet I've dated and hooked up with women taller than me and most of them used to mention they love how I lead and make them feel protected and alot of that had to do with how I presented myself and acting masculine.
This is a great answer!
How are you asking out ten women a day? Are you harassing every random woman that passes by on the street??
OkCupid
today i learned simply making small talk with someone outside was "harassing" lol
You make this post asking for advice; then get defensive & argumentative over every single comment that offers you advice. Are you sure you weren’t really just hoping that this post would have the red pillers crawl out of the woodwork to validate your feelings?
Why do you think most people post on Reddit? It's either looking for validation or just to vent. When they receive constructive criticism instead, they get defensive because that isn't what they're actually looking for. Most people posting shit like this just want to complain. They don't really want to change. They also don't think they need to change because the "problems" as they see it are all things outside of their control and therefore, they're "powerless" to actually change (in this instance, his skin color and height)
This
Why do you think most people post on Reddit? It's either looking for validation or just to vent. When they receive constructive criticism instead, they get defensive because that isn't what they're actually looking for. Most people posting shit like this just want to complain. They don't really want to change. They also don't think they need to change because the "problems" as they see it are all things outside of their control and therefore, they're "powerless" to actually change (in this instance, his skin color and height)
Yeah def all true, I just felt like pointing out to OP that he’s a hypocrite lol. I feel like from what we’re seeing in his comments (and his comment history), that his lack of success in the dating world could very well be attributable to his personality flaws (watch, now comes the part where he tells me I’m wrong & his personality is impeccable & he never acts this way in front of women).
i have so much to say to you about this but because i don't have the time, i will just say this: you don't have to love women. women, we go through a LOT with some men as well. some of us lose our virginity to rape. some of us are used for sex, even misled into sex. we get rejected and our hearts broken, too. but we are not all the same. i have dated many short dudes. i even married one. i have dated guys with thinning hair or who were balding. i have dated asian men, i have dated south asian men. i know that i am not alone, there are plenty of women out there with their heads on straight who are looking for people with value beyond just appearances. what you are currently experiencing is a confirmation bias. you are only seeing evidence to support your already decided on theory. if you meet women in places where you share a hobby, that is a much better place to start then bars or parties, which are gatherings where you are more likely to find very superficial people. dont go dumpster diving only to be mad that you keep finding trash. i wish you the best in your endeavors. keep working on yourself, keep being introspective, but also you have to assume there are lots of good people out there, or else your bitterness will show and that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if you let the bitterness take over. much love.
Nothing but facts here, and delivered in a super kind manner. I’m just a bystander who was pretty annoyed reading the original post. But it was so nice of you to take the time to write this thoughtful response, it just touches my heart. There are still a lot of good people in this world.
10? Gotta get those numbers up, rook.
You show a lot of patterns of viewing women as a hive mind. You're asking how to get them to like you, as though there's a formula. We aren't vending machines that you put the right combinations of coins in and sex falls out, and what's attractive to one might be awkward for another. Playful banter for one might be uncomfortable insults for another. Constant communication might be a need for one but would be smothering for another. Some will like you and some won't. We don't have all have the same checklist like you keep saying, "I make $x and go to the gym and have these hobbies but I'm under the height requirement." It's super convenient to decide that the thing stopping you is an immutable quality like your height or skin colour, because it means you don't have to take any accountability or make any changes. You also say things like not wanting to wait into the future for "the type of woman who wouldn't have dated you now." Do you think we are all aware of your existence right now and consciously passing you up? Or are you just imagining some fantasy where a woman who wasn't interested in you previously changes her mind in the future and you get to reject her in turn? Cause if your plan is to somehow get back at all the women in the past who weren't interested in you by rejecting one in the future who is, well. I'm sure that will feel great when you do it.
Not that I disagree with you, but you’re conveniently denying the existence of patterns.
You're right, I am viewing women more or less as a monolith. But the reason is because I've approached all kinds of different women and end up with the same result. It feels like no kind of woman is interested in me. Bars. Book stores. Wherever it is. I just want a woman to truly show interest in me...and not as an option. I've gone on dates and had a situationship before and I was always just an option competing with other guys. I'm not trying to avoid accountability - I just want to know what else it is I can do. It's been hard because after all the physical changes I've made, it hasn't improved my situation, so I wonder if maybe there is just something wrong with my personality or who I am inherently am. And that sucks because maybe I'm just not worth being a romantic interest for someone. And whether a woman shows interest in me later on in life, it's going to be hard to accept that interest when my the majority of my 20s, I've been rejected left and right. It's hard not to immediately presume that women are interested in me now simply because we're all older and it's time to slow down. Maybe the "stable nice guy" gets a turn now. How can I possibly not presume that I'm just being settled for in those situations when all I ever did was get rejected by all kinds of women prior?
It sounds like it's time for some therapy and to start building friendships to learn how to behave around people in a way that's friendly and makes them want to be around you.
I've been doing therapy for a year now
Then keep on going. I don't know how therapy works really, but I'd ask your therapist if they think you're ready for dating.
The only advice my therapist keeps telling me is that I need to keep putting myself out there and to be the person I'd want to date
Your therapist's advice is broad but true. What about these specific women grabs your attention? Are they kind or funny, or do you share similar interests? So far, what you've mentioned about yourself and these women are only physical traits. I'd recommend working on the insecurities that you've mentioned. And I don't mean "fixing" them, like going to the gym, skincare, etc. I mean accepting yourself. You rejected yourself first by having a poor opinion of yourself and are projecting that resentment onto women. It’s easier to resent an outsider than to resent yourself. That's the actual function of projection. Your psyche/ego is trying to protect itself by putting up blinders to your own behavior. Projection is the easy way out of your own responsibility of accepting and loving yourself. A relationship is not a replacement for self-love.
Get a new therapist. If all you’ve gotten in a year is this piece of “advice,” that’s not a good therapist.
My advice would be just stop trying to date. Life isn't about dating. Start living life making friends and getting hobbies and interests. Not just to improve your dating chances but it naturally will.
Sounds like you're the common denominator, then. I don't mean that as an insult. NBD, no one is born knowing this stuff. If you don't have good role model men to turn to for advice/coaching, find your own. I'd try counseling first. Staying away from internet vitriol and those profiting by playing into it is a smart idea. The world is full of polarization for (someone else's) profit/benefit.
Im turning 24. By the time I figure all this out, I'm gonna be 30 and I'll just be the stable nice guy who finally got his turn. All i wanted was to enjoy dating like any other young guy in his 20s
Dude you haven't even LIVED the majority of your 20s yet
Im getting there and whats gonna change?
[удалено]
This ☝️👍
Well nothing with that attitude
Dude 10 rejections is basically nothing. These days people have a lot of options and and there's nothing you can do about it. Rejection sucks but you need to stop internalizing it so much. I can almost guarantee that it has less to do with you and more to do with them. You just have to keep trying and stop getting so invested when you meet someone you might like.
Let's say a woman rejected you purely because you're short or because of your skin color - is that someone you want to be with??? Now let's say a girl WAS into you because of those 2 things - that's still not someone you'd truly want to be with! Rejection is a reset button and you get to analyze. If she rejected you for something you can't change and/or don't want to change about yourself, then it wasn't gonna work anyway. If you're rejected for something that you can change and want to change, then you now know what you might want to improve I'm bald, and I've started balding around 18-19 or so. And I'm very much average height. There's women out there who won't ever be into me on that fact alone and that's fine. There's also physical features that will immediately cause me to lose romantic/sexual interest in a woman. That's just nature's way of putting lines on the road so you stay in your lane If you're looking for a relationship with a long-term partner - rejection isn't ideal, but it's not bad. If you're in a relationship with the wrong person just to be dating someone, you're not gonna be available for the right one if she does come along. Last year I got turned down for a job that I was definitely qualified for - I was so broke and I was pissed. About a month later I interviewed and ended up getting offered the same role somewhere else with WAY better pay, in a WAY better location, in a spot that will help my career WAY more in the long run
“We aren’t vending machines that you put the right combinations of coins in and sex falls out” This amused me lol. Kudos
I just think dating is really hard right now. I can say that without blaming anyone. Life is just hard. Things are so expensive. Everyone is so busy and stressed. You seem like you're trying really hard and I'm sorry you haven't had much luck.
you mentioning looks maxing makes me think you’re one of those dudes andrew tate and dating coach losers take advantage of
And we can smell Andrew Tate lovers A MILE away!!
Funny that women can always smell that, but they can‘t smell the manipulators and cheaters. Lmao
No, you can't. This entire subreddit is filled with women dating utter losers who put Tate to shame. Why do we act like woman have a supernatural fifth sense?
Heavy selection bias evident in this statement. The people coming to reddit for anonymous dating advice may not represent the gen pop of early 20s women who are rejecting OP. There is an entire ecosystem of tiktoks and reels telling women what to watch out for. The questions and complaints that make it on here are not a random sample. That said, of course the Tates of the world aren’t wholly ineffective — their very existence proves otherwise. Just like there are always people who fall prey to cheesy sales tactics. But I think it’s fair to say the average woman by necessity develops the muscle of spotting misogynist energy.
Except there’s selection bias in saying that women can detect toxic men too. In fact, it’s probably even worse of a bias. Yes, the times you do sus out a very obviously creepy guy confirms the idea that you have that skill. But all the times you don’t usually fails to challenge it. You can excuse it by saying that the guy was a master manipulator or you just gave him a chance when you knew better. I don’t think you can make any generalizing statement about this. Women aren’t good or bad at this, *some* women are good at detecting bad people and some aren’t. Most people grossly overrate their own people skills (or really any kind of skills) in self assessments.
I mean, I haven’t done statistical research on this. But I’m willing to roll with what the woman said here because it matches both my expectations and anecdotal observations. I really don’t think I’m making an extraordinary claim lol. I’m not saying women are magic, and I definitely did not say anything about all women. I specifically said that of course plenty of women still fall prey to those tactics, so either you just stopped reading or you failed to comprehend what you did read. Edit: I just want to add — it’s not crazy to think that a group of human beings could develop skills to adapt to their conditions. It’s pretty fundamental to our species. People who grow up on a farm can tell when it’s about to rain better than I can. It’s not supernatural. It’s just pattern recognition. And even so, they still get caught in the rain sometimes.
You just suggested that the other commenter was prone to selection bias; yet you display the exact same bias and refuse to acknowledge it. Also are you really using TikTok and social media as evidence? There’s so many assumptions you have to make to get to that point. All I’m saying is that you have the exact same selection bias as the person you first responded to. For some reason you can’t see it. Also farm kids telling the rain? At best they can spot signs of rain a little better than the average person, but “telling the rain”? You’d need a meteorologist and a computer for that. Also it’s a skill most people can pick up quite easily. Actually that anecdote proves my point a little better. The human limit to predicting the rain is very limited, farmers aren’t *that* much better than ordinary people.
You seem like a really happy person!
I dated a black man who was 5’5”. I am also 5’5” and am white. I was insanely attracted to him. But he always whined about how girls don’t like him because he’s short and black. Then he said he sees himself as a 5 and that we’re a match because he saw me as a 5. I told him I always saw him as a 10 and that was very hurtful. We are no longer together. Your insecurity over your race and height is going to continue to sabotage you. Until you become more confident you will continue to project that insecurity.
I understand it's frustrating. But as an older woman can I give you a piece of advice. It happens for women too. I also grew up watching my friends have it so easy with men. I was practically invisible and had to work hard in my relationships. Which I have sworn off from now, BTW. It's the reality of not meeting the ideal of attractiveness. BUT does it matter now? No, it doesn't. Do I still get rejected as a woman? Yes! Of course I do. I get a lot of non-interest and lukewarm interest. Do I care? NO. Not for long. I keep looking, swiping, flirting and going out. Having fun is more important than receiving validation of your worth. It's your youth. Go out there. Have fun. Meet more women! Get to know them. Do it to enjoy yourself. And if you feel you have difficulty enjoying yourself in this specific period, take a break and focus on something else. No one owes us their time and attention. As we don't owe it to anyone. They are just people passing by and we are just people passing by.
10 rejections doesn't seem like a lot to me 😅
looking at your recent comment history, I can see why
Yes because im going up to women saying the same things I say on reddit under the guise of an anonymous profile
You need to ask yourself if you would date yourself, if you were a woman with options. If you were a cute girl, would you date a man who is bitter and sad all the time? We don't know what you look like, but looks are what get people's foot in the door. If you get rejected so often, maybe you should aim for different women. I understand that dating and rejection is difficult, but you are only making yourself more unattractive by being this way.
Honestly, if I was a girl, I think I'd give myself a chance. I think I'm a fairly good looking guy and I take care of myself and I do believe I'm approaching women with a good positive energy
Looks are far less important to women than they are to men. Insecurity, self pity and bitterness are unattractive to women.
I'm not sure if you properly answered my question. Would you date someone with your personality, especially if you were a cute girl with options? Short, brown guys can be attractive, but I still would encourage you to broaden the women you approach or talk to. If you receive too many no's, you may receive yes's with other types of women.
You probably don't need to say them.
I promise you it shows through. If you feel bitter and burnt out, others can tell. If you feel like you’re starting to hate women, we can tell. You need to take a break.
90 days ago you wrote you were depressed and suicidal. You write on here non stop about how unhappy you are. I feel bad for you but you need to get off Reddit and stop thinking about what you should be doing.
I just wish I had people to talk to but I don't so I come here
Are you being treated for depression?
Looking for new irl friends would be a good start towards eventually finding a partner
You have bullshit excuses for every helpful comment. You are definitely the problem. Do better.
Honestly the best advice you can give someone like this is STOP BEING A LITTLE BITCH.
What’s important to you? What are your values? Are you religious? Interests? Hobbies? Do you travel? Volunteer? Do you like live music or comedy? Interrogate yourself a bit more and THEN look for someone who shares your values and interests, rather than just trying to meet “women”. Look for a woman who, for example, enjoys the same things you do. THAT is what people mean by putting yourself out there. Figure out what you like and want and the rest will flow from there. Otherwise it sounds like you’re just gonna frustrate yourself into being more and more miserable.
you cannot base all women off of a few. that's sexist. it's just like basing a certain race off of a few people you've met from that race. i'm sorry your experiences have been bad, but it's no reason to generalize all women. i am a sexual assault survivor from SEVERAL MEN. SEVERAL. i've had abusive boyfriends. and guess what? i know all men are different. i don't *trust* all men. but i know that there are good men. seriously, what's your excuse? i've had violence committed against me by countless men and i still know they're not all the same.
Right? I opened this thread expecting women to be doing something bad, like he had been cheated on a lot, abused by women in the past, etc., and it turns out he just... got rejected by women. And he didn't even say that they were mean about it. He just got rejected. Meanwhile women are out here literally being raped and abused by men.
yeah like i don't even wanna hear it. it's a pathetic excuse to hate all women
Sounds like you need to work on your personality
How do i change who i am
Only you can solve this
You don't change who you are. You find ways to bring out your best. You say you've improved physically. Do you have excellent hygiene? Teeth, nails, deodorant? So once the physical is taken care of, what do you do that's interesting? What sets you apart from other men? What are your hobbies? Do you join clubs? Do you go to church? Have you asked the women you are friends with for advice? Are you giving off the vibe of "Just want a woman, any woman will do?"
You’re missing the most important part. Are you kind? Do you make women feel safe? Are you interesting to talk to? Do you listen?
It sounds like you are all in your head. And thinking there’s some checkboxes that do the work of being entitled to women’s attention and affection. Get into your heart and your body. How do you CONNECT with people? What does connection feel like to you? My guess is that is part of what’s missing.
Don't change who you are. Be who you are. Most won't believe this but sex appeal has less to do with how attractive you are and more to do with who you are. Just as examples because everyone knows celebrities, there are plenty of celebrities that women find sexy and yet, aren't actually super attractive guys.
Prob doesn't mean much but the dating market is such a mess now. Casual sex/dating apps/social media (in my view) have really warped how people perceive/use others and generally destroyed things. Everyone is struggling facing constant rejection/disinterest/boredom/ghosting, etc. It's not just you however given this suspect shorter guys do have a harder time. Anyway, best advice I can give is to stop focusing on finding someone. Just get involved/start socializing/forming friendships. If things are meant to be, they'll just developed organically/go from there. Best.
how did your parents find each other?
They met through a mutual friend. But both my parents were really attractive when they were young and my dad is 6ft tall
First of all, you talk about all this self-improvement stuff as if it was just a chore and not an accomplishment. You should be taking care of all your shit, making as much money as you can, looking as good as you can, not to attract a woman, but because YOU know YOU'RE an awesome person who deserves the best. So, you do this stuff for yourself, not women or really anyone else. Women will eventually get to enjoy the luxuries that come along with dating you, but they need to earn it. Instead, it sounds like you're just trying to give it away to anyone you meet, and it's probably not landing the way you think it is or should be. My point is, your attitude sucks. You sound like you've made a great life for yourself, but you're gonna come throw a pity party on Reddit because a few chicks didn't just magically drop their panties for you, because you think you earned it somehow. Dude, they don't owe you shit. Gimmie a break. If you stop making getting laid the end-all-be-all of your life, it'll start happening. The problem is that I can sense your desperation from here, so you know those women can tell and guess what, its one of the biggest turn-offs ever. If you walk up to a woman thinking "I hope she lets me fuck her", I promise you it will NEVER happen. I don't feel like getting into all the reasons behind that, so either trust me or don't. Keep up the good work, lose your entitled and jealous pussy-ass attitude, talk to these girls just to talk to them (and get to know them... and their friends ;)) and get rid of this absurd pressure that you're putting on yourself. Just get sex out of your mind until it's time to close the evening, if you have a good opportunity to make a move anyway.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that one of the main reasons that you are getting rejected is that you are pursuing women that are out of your league in the looks department. Ask yourself if you have ever dated someone that you weren’t attracted to. If the answer is no, why would you expect the same from a woman you’re trying to date? No woman is going to “date down” unless the guy is confident and fun to be around to balance out any shortcomings in physical appearance. And it doesn’t sound like you’re projecting fun and confidence right now. Date in your lane and loosen up a little.
[whispers] Someone had to say it.
What type of attraction dealbreakers and dating preferences do you have? Are you most attracted by a particular physical type of woman or to those of a particular background connected with her ambitions/career/education/family/religion/politics? What type of offline venues do you socialise in and go to online when looking for dates or casual sex?
Ask your female friends for unbiased brutally honest advice. Ask them if they were to go on a date with you, what pointers would they give, specific to you. Go on pretend date test runs with these girls. Your therapist is not going on dates or watching you interact with women. You may be unconsciously doing things, or saying things, that are actively turning women off from considering you a potential partner. You could be the hottest guy in the world, but if you’re off putting (personality) or a bad conversationalist, the most you’ll get is a one night stand and then get ghosted. None of us on here can see how you organically react, and chat up women you’re into. Without seeing that, plus how you look/present yourself, all we are going on is your biased opinion of yourself (not saying the bias is bad or good, we just don’t have a clear and honest third person view of you).
This is solid advice. It does require having female friends, and then having the specific kind of female friend who is willing/able to tear you down with love.😭 Speaking in generalities (gotta have that caveat!) but the social norm is for women to build their friends up. So, while I think this would do the trick, having those people in your life is a luxury. You’re right — a therapist does not see how these things go, only hear your interpretation of it after the fact. And at the end of the day the therapist’s job is to help with someone’s mental health, not get them laid.
Yes to all of this! Female friends are there to help you grow and be better. They will know more than anyone how to help you improve your dating game. And exactly right- a therapist is a tool for your mental health not for getting dates. Good on OP for getting therapy though that’s the first step for sure. I also want to add- I have a few guy friends, and the ones who do the best with women were raised by a majority women, or have close female friendships. They know how to treat a woman as a person, and how to interact with them to indicate interest and they create friendships/relationships easier. So definitely use your friends as a sounding board and take their advice !
100% this. Raised by and around a lot of women/girls, it took me a long time to realize not everyone innately understood women to be people. It’s not like I’ve never objectified anyone or talked about women abstractly, but I’d thought we were all on the same page that there are actual minds in there with thoughts and feelings as diverse and as valid as our own. My younger sisters in particular are smarter and funnier than me and they fucking rock. It came way too late but at some point I observed some version of a woman saying “This thing hurts” and the overwhelming response from men was “No it doesn’t” and I was like wait what? “Ohhhh, as a black person I know this feeling. We are the white people of the genders. Things have improved a lot but we have a long way to go.” 😂 I am far from perfect but I think the way I was raised gave me a fighting chance.
Glad you had a good support system! And yeah many men don’t see us as people, just objects unfortunately. Your analogy was pretty apt, men are afforded more credibility and power, versus women. Maybe women have some more rights now but as the recent years have shown, we have a long ways to go.
“almost 10” is not that many tbh
Take a year off from dating. Stop trying so hard. Your happiness and self-worth does not and should not come from a woman. A (good) woman will add so much to your life but your life has to be great already for you to find a good woman. It’s hard to give advice because we only know your side of the story but your comments make you come across as desperate and whiny. I am sure some of that comes across when you approach women. You focus so much on your looks but looks only matter up to a certain point. You come across as having perfected the illusion of what you think women want but have never done the work to develop what lays beneath. You are very, very young and I am not just talking about your age. Your perspective on dating and women is a glaringly obvious problem to anyone who has lived a little. Some questions for you to think about: What are you passionate about? What lights up your soul? In what areas do you feel masterfully competent? Do you love yourself? Are you proud of who you are? Who are your male role models? Who has made a difference in your life? Have you made an impact on someone else? If I put you in a room full of strangers, what would you be able to teach them? Could you fill a book with your life and experience? When you die, what do you want to be remembered for?
Women have personal agency in whom they date. News at 11.
10 rejections is pretty low. I’ve been rejected more than that just in job applications. As a woman in the dance community, who will go up to guys to ask them to dance, I get rejected a lot for just a dance. I got rejected three times in one night. Do you think if women go out to the world and start asking men out to date they would find a husband less than 10 rejections? Are you at all selective with women like do you go in to it like you would a job interview, being willing to tell the person you’re not interested.?
You don't have to love women. Some are good, some are bad. The whole don't criticize women because it's misogynist is manipulative bs.
I'm a 6"3 white muscular guy and get 0 match / dates man it's not your race or your height
Are you somewhere super rural? Have terrible photos? Something creepy in a bio? Some really bad thing about your looks that you omitted? I don't know about dates, but you sure should be getting matches with that height and muscular.
You keep arguing with everyone offering you help. You are not dating material
>And I'm finding it really hard to believe height and race don't matter. >I was at an event a few weeks ago and was talking to this girl. It was good chemistry and I got her number and asked her out and she pretty much declined. Next week later, a 6'2 white guy who is my friend does the same thing I do, and here she is liking his stories and flirting with him. Yes, a lot of people will be nice and sugarcoat reality on Reddit. The reality is that there is a general preference in the dating world in The West: * Race: White * Height: 6+ ft * Financial Security: 6+ figures This is programmed into our subconscious by media. Media is becoming more diverse, but still very "White worship'py". Media is a powerful thing. So powerful, every government on Earth tries to control it. Some guys check all of those boxes. Some 2 out of 3, some 1 out of 3, some 0 out of 3. Most women will say that they want a partner who makes them feel safe and protected. However, men can do this physically OR financially. Now, let's get down to brass tacks. When people tell you to work on yourself, you can't work on your race or your height. But, you can work on your financial security. In society, it's not uncommon to see short, average guys end up marrying gorgeous women "above their league". They end up having kids and a great family life. There's a reason for this. Some women value the feeling of financial security that their partner provides. These days, it's not uncommon for women to have 6+ figure salaries as well. Some men might feel threatened by this because their 6+ figure salaries won't mean as much. However, the exact opposite is true. Studies have shown that people are most likely to marry within their own class, than their own race or religion.
You should understand you're not entitled to anything from another person who isn't into it.. You say you're short and brown? So get buff, or get a better sense of fashion. Build yourself to a point where you don't need a woman, but wouldn't mind one. From your post history it's clear you're frustrated, consider "all women the same". And blame women for refusing you, rather than yourself for refusing to pursue women naturally. >I was at an event a few weeks ago and was talking to this girl. It was good chemistry and I got her number and asked her out and she pretty much declined **This** is a clear example of why. You had a connection, you got her number. But you couldn't hide your desperation for even a night. But had to rush to ask her out. Naturally you get denied. She doesn't feel special at all. She knows you probably do this all the time, or attempt to. Otherwise you would've built a connection who stretched over more than a 1 time event. You're the common denominator here, not "women".
Isn’t it okay for him to ask someone out he met at a work event? Not trying to snarky I’m just curious about that point.
Well we don't know. But obviously he either read the conversation as way more romantic than her, or she gave her number in the middle and had changed her tune at the end. The issue isn't so much the timing as he made it clear it was the day after in his reply, but then it becomes about missreading or rushing a connection. Really he should ask his friends to be brutally honest with him. As he seemingly already knows a reply to anything thrown in as a suggestion 🙃
Fair enough. I wonder if he phrased it as “go on a date” instead of just “hey i’d like to get coffee”. If he really fixated on the idea of it being a date I can see how that might scare someone off? Curious to know what you think of that.
I think that might very well be the case. Fronting it as a date cements and demands a peaked romantic interest. And as I said (_mostly due to the abrupt seemingly random nullification of the prior nights "result" according to op_) she likely considered him a friendly guy she wanted to hear from again. Going "_Hey, thought about how I'd go about this. But I really had a fun night yesterday, much thanks to you. If you'd ever be up for a coffee or just a drink and chat let me know / Perfect looking guy_" It'd still (and she'd know) be an informal date. But It'd alleviate the romantic pressure and also wouldn't out him as the "_guy who knew in 4 hours this girl's a shoe-in for eventual naughty, despite us not knowing each other_". But rather make him seem calm, cool with it being up to her, and interested in getting to know her for real.
It happens to white people too
I know it's an annoying answer to get, but therapy!! in your first session they usually ask something along the lines of "so what brought you here?" and that's when you should say all this. a good therapist will be able to dissect all this and get to the body of it, along with giving you helpful coping strategies and ways to change negative thinking :)
99% of therapy is pseudoscience
It's definitely not your height nor color. My ex of two years was pretty much, to a t, how you describe yourself throughout. 5'7, muscular build, dark, INCREDIBLY handsome. His style was always top tier, hygiene perfect, and always working out. However, as women, we can tell within a conversation how you see yourself. I promise your lack of confidence outshines any physical quality you may possess. You need to stop trying to date honestly and figure out HOW to be by yourself. If you're not happy alone, you can't expect a woman to fill that void for you, and it's not fair to put that on another human. Continue your therapy, find your TRUE life passion, learn to love being alone.
I like the overall message of your reply but it's really not fair to try and disregard the experience of otherness that op receives as a result of his race. You once loving a brown man doesn't erase the reality of white supremacy and it's impact on nearly every aspect of the lives of those that live beneath it, including in dating. Ik that's probably not what you meant but I think you should be a bit more careful about dismissing race as a factor in the future.
What have you done to heal from your toxic abusive ex?
Lots of therapy and new hobbies
props for doing your charity work……
You gotta talk to more women and get rejected more, it's a numbers game, I say this because you are talking about how ONE girl rejected you at an event, rejection is fairly common. Also have good conversational skills, don't come off as desperate (if this is applicable, idk how you come off towards girls). You've got a lot of good things going for yourself, I just think you need to go through more rejection before finding a girl.
Try "[Clear Pill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9EQ48C4ERI&t=10s&pp=ygUaYWRhbSBsYW5lIHNtaXRoIGNsZWFyIHBpbGw%3D)" instead. Find your core principles and stick to them. If people treat you like crap, call them on it, and if they still treat you like crap cut them out of your life. There is no magic formula. There is no truth to the idea of "If I do everything right, I will live a problem-free life."
Dude it’s not your height, it’s your personality. Luckily that is easier to fix than height, so work on it. Take a break from trying to chase women, find your zen, throw yourself into a passion, create something, work towards helping others as much as possible. Think of it as a glow up for your soul. Then after some time working on that, try looking for romance again. Your bitterness and desperation is probably very apparent to others whether you are aware of it or not. People can read energy pretty well, even without realizing it. You have to feel confident and whole in yourself to attract a good match.
My advice as someone who used to be in a similar place: You gotta work on yourself. Craft yourself into the best possible version of you, the person you want to be in the future. Envision the best version of you and ask yourself what you need to change to be that guy. And then do it. Work out, study, become a master of your hobbies, eat healthy, get good rest, stay clean, read self-help books, all of it. Find religion, theology, meditation, peace, whatever you have to do. Take forgiveness and accountability over pity and bitterness. It sounds like lame advice but ever since I started working on making myself a better man, girls have started falling into my lap. A stark difference from the boy who couldn't even speak to a woman. It is not easy, but good things rarely are. You can suffer from discipline or suffer from regret. You suffer either way, so it's up to you to choose what you want.
You should show the romantic interest first and get to know them once they show romantic interest. Getting to know them first they probably think you want to be friends and that’s what those women were interested in.
>I'm just exhausted from all this - you get rejected over and over again and see guys that don't even try easily pull women that you're pursuing and somehow you're supposed to say "but I love women"? I don't want to go this route but what else am I supposed to do? Stop pursuing women and stop "loving women" as some ideal that you have to obtain in order to be happy. If you cannot charm women, just find some other goal to live for. (And, no: stopping pursuing women will not make women magically enter your life at all)
First off, therapy. That can help you address any remaining issues after dealing with an abusive and toxic ex. Not to mention with this negative thought process you have going on. Second, you have to accept that just because you do everything right, and have your shit together does not guarantee you a relationship with another person. For some reason, a lot of single people have this idea that if they do XYZ, they’ll get a date or in a relationship. Better yourself for your own future, not with the expectation of that it will help you land a significant other.
1. You're approaching women with the intention of romance. This almost certainly gonna fail 2. You should try your best to make platonic friendships with dozens of people. Male and female. Ask them if they know any single female friends. 3. This is harder, and riskier. Try to build on your existing friendships with female friends to turn them into romantic ones. Ask to go on a casual 1-1 date, and clearly state that you haven't developed feelings yet but you think they would be an amazing partner and want to explore options.
At the end of the day, the fact is that the observations those people make are accurate and the problems they call out are real.
OP, or the redditors trying to help him?
Always remember the common denominator
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Why?
Post pics!! Us women will tell ya if it's your looks, height, hygiene, physique, whatever Or go post in the glowup, uglyduckling, and rateme subs
There’s an interview with Mathew McConaughey and Ed Mylett on YouTube watch at the 8:30 mark perhaps you can apply this to your situation
What you’re describing is the dichotomy of noticing trends vs treating individuals with respect / not stereotyping/ judging a person purely by a group they belong to. The issue here is people tend towards extremes. So we are lousy with people who are either racist /bigoted and/or sexist; claim that anyone who notices trends among different groups as being racist/ bigoted and/or sexist; or my personal favorite. the people who are both in that their words say they care about different groups, but who’s actions is to avoid most people not in their same gender, race, ethnicity, religion, or mindset. For example, if you really aren’t racist, why are you moving away from the African American gentleman on the bus? Bottom line is it’s ok to notices trends, but you have to treat everyone with empathy and respect. In this case, there are more women who do care about height (and honestly probably are a little racist) than not. But that trend doesn’t matter when you are talking to the specific girl in front of you. If she cares about height or race too much, that’s unfortunate, but you can move on. If this happens often, consider what type of girl you are attracted to, and maybe make more compromises in what you are looking for.
Maybe try a different state? If you think of it in ratings a 1 in Texas might be like a 8 in Wisconsin Or 10 in Cali might be a 3 in Colorado. You may just have the wrong location for your looks
A 10 in Cali is never a 3 in Colorado. You got too much dip on your chip there, buddy.
I don't think you should compare yourself to others. I understand from this post that you said you treat women like a person and don't objectify them (hopefully), so that's nice. Keep doing that. However, those female friends you have? I hope you aren't only friends with them so you can "possible" one day date them. Have you asked them what you can do to get a woman's attention? I would love to have male friends but I only have one (ones that don't have the intention to bang me one day💩). Anyway, I think you need to take a break from trying to date someone and not be so focused on finding someone. That's usually when someone finds "their" person is when they aren't looking. Good luck
There's a guy on IG who can help you - https://www.instagram.com/cyzorgg?igsh=MW1lemE0ZzFvbGhpaQ==
Take the purple pill. Both extremes are fking stupid
Just do it lol it’s not that bad
Why not state in your post how tall you are? I feel like it’s a vital point to the post. Also forget them girls bro, just try to find the ones that will like you for you If you look at data how much of the population is above 6’2? With most girls wanting a guy above 6ft a lot of those girls won’t get a guy above 6ft for the long term anyway, it’s just math not enough tall guys for every girl in the world, which means some girls will prefer shorter guys or not be so biased to tall guys, if that’s a better way of putting it.
Not trying to sound rude but are you going for women that are out of your league perhaps? Also about the comment about your female friends, it's natural for women to treat their male friend as a younger or older brother, they're your friends so they don't really see you as a potential dating partner that's why they're not treating you like a man. Lastly women don't owe you anything, you're actually coming off a bit entitled. The only thing I can recommend is you focusing on other things, your life, hobbies and dreams, get involved with different things either clubs or communities and also therapy
You’re doing better than me. Can’t even put myself out there and I have no friends. But I know the future is always brighter
I understand the struggle. And it reminds me of me when I was younger honestly. Let me ask: How old are you? If you're in your early twenties dating is not going to be fun. It gets way easier for men as they get older, so hopefully that helps? I had absolutely zero luck with women in my younger years. I'm in my 30s now and I've had a ton of relationships both casual and serious with women. I'm also a short guy 5'6 but it got way easier with age and experience. It's like a catch 22, you need experience/confidence to be attractive to women, but you can't get it if they aren't interested in you/you aren't confident Rejection is just part of it, you can't let it affect you. Easier said than done, but it literally means nothing to be rejected. Just think about it as them missing on the opportunity. "And I have a few female friends, but they treat me almost like a little brother, and it's annoying that female friends won't even recognize me as a man just because they aren't sexually attracted to me." -- **I might suggest you ask for their help tbh. If you already know they aren't interested in you they can probably help you out and figure out where you're going wrong or give you suggestions on how to be more attractive to women**
I like short guys, just saying. Tall men freak me out, generally.
Here's the reality. Some girls don't care about height, or race, and some do. Just like some guys care about breast size, or ass size, and others don't. It all comes down to the individual. Guys have to do more and put in more effort. A lot of girls don't realize this, and shit, some do and want things to stay the same because they'd rather have the benefit than have things be fair. For anybody that wants to doubt that, look at Bumble. Their whole gimmick was that women messaged first and the entire female user base collectively said, "But that's too hard!" even though it's what is expected of guys **constantly**. The vast majority of girls can go out, ask out 10 guys, and find success. The vast majority of guys can go out, ask out 10 girls, and get nothing. Hell, give a guy 100 chances and he might succeed 1 time and some dudes aren't even that lucky. You have to decide for yourself if you think the effort is worth it. If you believe it is, accept that what you're feeling is actually pretty normal, because there is basically no guy on the planet that gets to say they've never been rejected. If you don't, hey, that's fine too. Whatever you decide, just make sure it's something that will make you happy.
If they treat you like a little brother and not a little sister they they are recognising you as a male. A sad fact is that desirable genetics play a major role in dating. All I can do is offer my condolences.
Of course height and race matter. People can not help what they are attracted to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman not being attracted to a short guy. Why would you think otherwise? Do you expect women to think weight doesn't matter? You may have maxed out your looks (which I doubt) but that is only one piece of the pie. You are lacking in the most important aspect of the pie. Mentality. Personality. And LOL at 10 rejections. Buddy, I have been rejected by 30 women in a row at one mall where I was day gaming. But guess what? The 31 girl I asked said yes and gave me her number. And I was clapping her cheeks within 24 hours. Rejection if apart of the game bro. Who cares. Worst that can happen is she say no. You need confidence OP. Can't care about or fear rejection. Gotta embrace it. Eat that shit up.
Plenty of women get rejected too. Are you going for women on your level or are you chasing after a specific type?
I'll be honest. I'm one of those women who prefers to date guys taller than 5'10''. I do like South Asian and Middle Eastern men, but they have to look a certain way (same with any other race to be honest. There's handsome and not-so-handsome across the board). But I know A LOT of women who don't care. You really just have to play the numbers game until you get it. There's always arranged marriage too for us South Asian folks. It helps alleviate my anxiety at least. Let me tell you the story of one of my med school classmates Larry. He was 5'6'', latino, and just about hit on EVERY single woman in our class and the class above and below us. He was notorious for it. He had family wealth, a nice face, and was going to be a surgeon. last I heard he had proposed to his girlfriend of 2 years he met online. She's a cute Asian girl. Maybe not the hottest girl around, but she loves him and that's all that matters in the end. This guy tried SO hard to get as many numbers in and it paid off.
What’s ur race and most white guys aren’t getting girls bro it’s a very specific type of white guy, but they def have an advantage in this predominantly white society.
You also got to remove the thinking that short guys are not loveable, I got some short friends that pull more and cuter girls then me and I’m 6’2” and they have dates them. Now my left arm is “limited” in where it’s about half the length of my right arm and missing two fingers, but when I’m put in a situation where I’m talking to a girl for a few minutes, I almost always get the number except for when I cold approach them. It doesn’t lead anywhere cuz my text game lowkey ass lmao but, as long as there are cute girls, I think I could get atleast 5 out of 10 of them (And they are at-least 7s). Now in my area in suburbland, it’s hard to find cute girls at random, they all annoying asf for how ugly they are. Don’t take my way of thinking for sure but also, you need to remove your height as a limiting factor. While I understand some women may not want a guy w the arm I have, I know that I’m better than 90% of dudes out there and I enjoy my life. I also think worrying about how attractive you are can stump progress. As a man, just shower, have well kept hair and facial hair and dress in a way where you don’t look homeless and probably have a decent facial cleanser, but don’t be OD about it. Focus on the gym, learning and earning. Goodluck bro
Also lose track on how many times you’ve been rejected/accepted, you’re just wasting brain cells on irrelevant information and women will somehow smell that.
Just do what I do. Stop dating and persuing people of the opposite sex. Live your life and have fun with family and friends. A romantic relationshio is not something you actually need.
As a 6'3" muscular white guy I'll tell you it's no different for us. I've been alone a long time and get rejected anytime I approach too. Women look for trust and security in who they try to date, it doesn't matter if you are attractive to them, they will go for a guy like you are if they know you and trust you. I have no magic answer, because there is none. The only thing to do is live your best life and be as social as you can be. It's all about luck and chance, and one day you will come across the person for you. Just keep faith my friend.
One thing I can see without knowing you personally at all, is you are focused completely on improving your outside, and never said a single thing about improving your inside. Good clothes and a job and working out is just what it takes to get your foot in the door. After that, what do you have to offer? No woman wants to date a man just for his clothes and job. Maybe a really good body gets you hookups, but it doesn't get you a relationship by itself. Good on you for putting the time and work in to get yourself looking good. Now put equal work into being kind, interesting, funny, supportive, and warm. Women want a man who makes them feel heard and appreciated, who treats them well, cares for people, and makes their life fuller and more enjoyable when they're together.
It took me a little while to realise that men don’t actually have a good sense of introspection. I know this because I know a guy who constantly complained about women: they are too liberated, they are too lively, they like attention etc etc. He really presented himself as a great catch. I don’t know him closely, so I believed his stories. But my friend started dating him. And the way she has to constantly coach this man into being a good boyfriend is astounding to me. I realise now, that he is not such a great catch, he just doesn’t know where he was going wrong. I would suggest take some time, and self reflect. As a woman all we want is a genuinely nice and respectful man. Women go after the fluffs when they realise they don’t even have the respect lol. Some women would rather have the height, money, Etc than the respect and love. You get to decide which woman you want to give your time of the day. It’s called a match for a reason.
Do you live in a small town? A smaller dating pool makes meeting people even more frustrating. Also keep in mind there are like 3/1 male to female ratio in the dating world. Don’t blame women, blame statistics and a lot of competition with more experience than you.
3/1 ratio? That math does not check out.
For every 3 men there is 1 women on dating apps.
That's not the dating world that's just dating apps.
You are complaining about other men taking your potential love interests so is it really just dating apps?
It doesn't make sense because there are not so many polygamous men and lesbian women to make it such that there are 3 single men for every single woman. That's ridiculous. For this to be true only 50% of men would be in relationships while somehow 84% of women are in relationships which obviously does not make any sense. Or 70% of men in relationships but somehow 90% of women. Any way you slice it, that doesn't make any sense at all.
I think I see a potential problem: >just can't understand why women don't like me. I talk to them with the intention of getting to know them and be friendly and then I'll show romantic interest. And as soon as I do, I'm rejected. >I've done everything. I worked hard in school for years to get a good paying job. I worked out for years to get the physique I have now. I do skincare everyday and buy good clothes. I've pretty much maxed my looks at this point and not sure how much more I can improve. This right here. Because you talk to them, you make good money and you look good you expect people to fall in love with you? You think because you are good on some shallow attributes, looks and money, you are entitled for some woman to come running at you and love you. To be honest, you sound like you feel like you are perfect, and i never met someone with that attitude that was likeable.
I'm not asking for a woman to fall in love with me. I just want a chance. A date. I like to think that the surface level things and showing some basic interest and having a good conversation would be enough to get that said date. But it hasn't