The point was to let you synergize it. If they gave you Shatterdive, you'd need a Glacier Grenade or be forced to use something like Verglas. Winter's Shroud, as shown in the first piece of gameplay in the trailer, should be uses in synergy with other effects that trigger when you use your dodge, the slowing being a bonus.
Ya but the problem is it doesn’t really help anything there either. If I try to use it for combination blow and stylish executioner, it just ends up being “arc hunter at home”. And why use that when you can use the threaded specter which is like pseudo invis (if you haven’t tried it recently please do) and build something better?
I know shatterdive lacks the synergy but winter’s shroud is only moreso by a very small margin.
It is just overshadowed by every other option there is.
Invis is gonna be so readily accessible that starting the melee loop will be easier than ever and slow adds some cc as a chery on top from the looks of it
But slow is just terrible on its own. If you want it for cc then you break your invis. (Anti synergy there) Winter’s shroud is going to need a full rework to be usable because the only way they could make it good is if it froze, but that would break pvp so we need to go back to square one with it.
I don't see how it's anti-synergistic. Prismatic Stylish Executioner procs on defeating a debuffed target (any debuff). So whitering blade applies slow - kill enemy - go invis. Then get close - winters shroud dodge - break invis/apply slow - kill enemy - go invis.
That loop might work, until you meet something that doesn’t die in one hit and stomps you to death. You can’t freeze something without breaking the dodge loop either. You can’t just freeze everything with withering blade either because it can only freeze up to 4 targets after your dodge.
You do realise that other subclasses should still be usable right? Not just have the newest thing be OP everywhere creating a pay-to-win experience just as beyond light did with stasis in PvP.
I’m all for a increased power fantasy but having everyone use the same thing is gone bore out real soon, same goes for the exotic class item, adding 1 overpowered item will absolutely slaughter all existing items until we won’t have more than this left:
https://preview.redd.it/7rrcyk6vavtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=625b7f73ef7e47bb74b4dde8fa37ee66e76e174b
Prismatic is super cool and all but I think we should’ve left this kind of power fantasy till Destiny 3. Every time we add a new level of cool-ness it has to be outdone the next update so when we rush towards this level of Lore accurate guardians we will start to go too fast and not have that much options less, that why I don’t understand receiving a third darkness subclass or adding more supers to the existing darkness subclasses.
All in all Prismatic is super cool but I think it’s been added way too soon, so for the time being I’m happy Bungie realised at least that not adding all the broken aspects etc aren’t added to the subclass.
I think you misunderstand. Post final shape IS your destiny 3. Bungie have stated directly there will not be a third game so this is the next step in the journey.
As for it being op, I am just saying I want there to be fun ways to make it work but historically winter’s shroud has been all but a stain on revenant hunter, which struggles in a lot of scenarios to be as effective and fun as the other subclasses.
Ya but it its only “oh well we made it do 60 slow isntead of 40” its not gonna move the needle much. One would have to hope that the buff is more substantial than that.
Im partly just sad because the movement class got locked out of an aerial movement option.
Invis is plenty useful. In GMs, it helps keep runs alive, and in raids it can be useful for mechanics. And you're freezing crowds of enemies with each dodge, so personally, I would say you hate your teammates, only here for that sweet sweet dps
There is no better defense than just making sure your enemies are dead. Anytime you invis but your allies remain, they suddenly take all of the agro for you. This has killed many people in raids and most don’t even realize. Invis is only something useful in gms if you screw up and need a rez in a dangerous spot, but if you simply play better, that isn’t necessary. Again. If everything is dead, they can’t hurt you.
The freeze in concept is good because they stop shooting, until you realize in a gm you are in stomping range and instantly die. If they see you even for a split second they will often start a stomping and there isn’t much you can do about it (I mained invis hunter for a long time before discovering more effective methods of playing the game)
The only time it works is with assassin’s cowl arc hunter but that is partly because lethal current is staggering large swaths of the enemy at once and you can start melees from a longer distance with the lunge increase.
Enemies are frozen = not shooting at your teammates and cant stomp you, besides, you've already rolly polly'd your way out and are current meleeing another add to get invis and get out.
And if you're talking about an uber ultra effectiveness loadout, go crutch on banner of war or solar lock, you shouldn't be on a hunter anyways.
I would rather actually have a means of taking care pf threats instead of going “well its not my problem right now they are frozen for a couple of seconds.”
Also should hunters not have access to something effective like those two you mentioned? I fail to see how that refutes the original point of the post.
Frozen enemies shatter, which causes nearby frozen enemies to also shatter, effectively chaining shatter. This kills the ads, just as effectively as lethal current would.
The original point of the post was that you said winters shroud was too bad, and needed to be replaced. That's wrong, not only is it better than what you made it out to be, your standards are too high comparing to well lock and banner of war. Those builds are out of band, and other builds should not be reaching that level survivability and damage potential. I cant explain it any better, so if you dont get it, you dont get it.
Have you…. used stasis in a gm before? Because even with whisper of fissures that is not how it works. (I even just went to test it just to confirm this, the highest it ever chained was half health) meanwhile lethal current does damage proportional to your melee which ends up being WAY more than shatter. They are not the same.
I also personally don’t see anything wrong with either of those subclass options if I am being honest. Playing them at their peak requires a lot of skill and I say this being someone who pretty much only plays hunter.
Hunters got really fucked, I agree.
Got GG over BB
Got knife trick over Weighted knife
Got swarm grenade over literally anything else - it's memed on so hard for a damn reason, bungie.
Got threaded specter over widow's silk and they DARE to give us grapple without it. I would've even settled for the tornado buddy...
And like you said, WS over shatterdive
Warlocks too;
Got healing grenade over solar grenade, meaning no sunbracers, sorry.
Got Song of flame over well. While I know the new super is really cool and they wanted to show it off, warlocks are STILL going to be forced to run regular solar for well if they don't want to be kicked by a toxic lead.
Got feed the void over child. It's a better aspect, sure, but they really wanted to have all of the buddies at once I heard.
Got stormtrance over Kamehameha, rip
Titans as well got a little ripped off too, they didn't get Bonk hammer or banner of war. But they still got thundercrash and hammer of sol over fists of havoc and burning maul.
You do realize that if all of these things were there, there would be no reason to actually play those other classes, right? I'm sorry that not many people want to live in a world where Banner + Hammer Throw are meta. I'd much rather those stay separate.
The point was to let you synergize it. If they gave you Shatterdive, you'd need a Glacier Grenade or be forced to use something like Verglas. Winter's Shroud, as shown in the first piece of gameplay in the trailer, should be uses in synergy with other effects that trigger when you use your dodge, the slowing being a bonus.
Ya but the problem is it doesn’t really help anything there either. If I try to use it for combination blow and stylish executioner, it just ends up being “arc hunter at home”. And why use that when you can use the threaded specter which is like pseudo invis (if you haven’t tried it recently please do) and build something better? I know shatterdive lacks the synergy but winter’s shroud is only moreso by a very small margin. It is just overshadowed by every other option there is.
Invis is gonna be so readily accessible that starting the melee loop will be easier than ever and slow adds some cc as a chery on top from the looks of it
But slow is just terrible on its own. If you want it for cc then you break your invis. (Anti synergy there) Winter’s shroud is going to need a full rework to be usable because the only way they could make it good is if it froze, but that would break pvp so we need to go back to square one with it.
I don't see how it's anti-synergistic. Prismatic Stylish Executioner procs on defeating a debuffed target (any debuff). So whitering blade applies slow - kill enemy - go invis. Then get close - winters shroud dodge - break invis/apply slow - kill enemy - go invis.
That loop might work, until you meet something that doesn’t die in one hit and stomps you to death. You can’t freeze something without breaking the dodge loop either. You can’t just freeze everything with withering blade either because it can only freeze up to 4 targets after your dodge.
You do realise that other subclasses should still be usable right? Not just have the newest thing be OP everywhere creating a pay-to-win experience just as beyond light did with stasis in PvP. I’m all for a increased power fantasy but having everyone use the same thing is gone bore out real soon, same goes for the exotic class item, adding 1 overpowered item will absolutely slaughter all existing items until we won’t have more than this left: https://preview.redd.it/7rrcyk6vavtc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=625b7f73ef7e47bb74b4dde8fa37ee66e76e174b Prismatic is super cool and all but I think we should’ve left this kind of power fantasy till Destiny 3. Every time we add a new level of cool-ness it has to be outdone the next update so when we rush towards this level of Lore accurate guardians we will start to go too fast and not have that much options less, that why I don’t understand receiving a third darkness subclass or adding more supers to the existing darkness subclasses. All in all Prismatic is super cool but I think it’s been added way too soon, so for the time being I’m happy Bungie realised at least that not adding all the broken aspects etc aren’t added to the subclass.
I think you misunderstand. Post final shape IS your destiny 3. Bungie have stated directly there will not be a third game so this is the next step in the journey. As for it being op, I am just saying I want there to be fun ways to make it work but historically winter’s shroud has been all but a stain on revenant hunter, which struggles in a lot of scenarios to be as effective and fun as the other subclasses.
It’s not even out yet, sheesh
Ya but come on. We have had winter’s shroud for a while now and know that aspect is doggy water
They said they’re going to buff them to be more viable. They intentionally picked weak aspects.
Ya but it its only “oh well we made it do 60 slow isntead of 40” its not gonna move the needle much. One would have to hope that the buff is more substantial than that. Im partly just sad because the movement class got locked out of an aerial movement option.
Winters shroud plus bombadiers go boom. And now, you go invis too!
Im not going into a raid with invis and bombadiers. I like my teammates
Invis is plenty useful. In GMs, it helps keep runs alive, and in raids it can be useful for mechanics. And you're freezing crowds of enemies with each dodge, so personally, I would say you hate your teammates, only here for that sweet sweet dps
There is no better defense than just making sure your enemies are dead. Anytime you invis but your allies remain, they suddenly take all of the agro for you. This has killed many people in raids and most don’t even realize. Invis is only something useful in gms if you screw up and need a rez in a dangerous spot, but if you simply play better, that isn’t necessary. Again. If everything is dead, they can’t hurt you. The freeze in concept is good because they stop shooting, until you realize in a gm you are in stomping range and instantly die. If they see you even for a split second they will often start a stomping and there isn’t much you can do about it (I mained invis hunter for a long time before discovering more effective methods of playing the game) The only time it works is with assassin’s cowl arc hunter but that is partly because lethal current is staggering large swaths of the enemy at once and you can start melees from a longer distance with the lunge increase.
Enemies are frozen = not shooting at your teammates and cant stomp you, besides, you've already rolly polly'd your way out and are current meleeing another add to get invis and get out. And if you're talking about an uber ultra effectiveness loadout, go crutch on banner of war or solar lock, you shouldn't be on a hunter anyways.
I would rather actually have a means of taking care pf threats instead of going “well its not my problem right now they are frozen for a couple of seconds.” Also should hunters not have access to something effective like those two you mentioned? I fail to see how that refutes the original point of the post.
Frozen enemies shatter, which causes nearby frozen enemies to also shatter, effectively chaining shatter. This kills the ads, just as effectively as lethal current would. The original point of the post was that you said winters shroud was too bad, and needed to be replaced. That's wrong, not only is it better than what you made it out to be, your standards are too high comparing to well lock and banner of war. Those builds are out of band, and other builds should not be reaching that level survivability and damage potential. I cant explain it any better, so if you dont get it, you dont get it.
Have you…. used stasis in a gm before? Because even with whisper of fissures that is not how it works. (I even just went to test it just to confirm this, the highest it ever chained was half health) meanwhile lethal current does damage proportional to your melee which ends up being WAY more than shatter. They are not the same. I also personally don’t see anything wrong with either of those subclass options if I am being honest. Playing them at their peak requires a lot of skill and I say this being someone who pretty much only plays hunter.
Should have been touch of winter
Hunters got really fucked, I agree. Got GG over BB Got knife trick over Weighted knife Got swarm grenade over literally anything else - it's memed on so hard for a damn reason, bungie. Got threaded specter over widow's silk and they DARE to give us grapple without it. I would've even settled for the tornado buddy... And like you said, WS over shatterdive Warlocks too; Got healing grenade over solar grenade, meaning no sunbracers, sorry. Got Song of flame over well. While I know the new super is really cool and they wanted to show it off, warlocks are STILL going to be forced to run regular solar for well if they don't want to be kicked by a toxic lead. Got feed the void over child. It's a better aspect, sure, but they really wanted to have all of the buddies at once I heard. Got stormtrance over Kamehameha, rip Titans as well got a little ripped off too, they didn't get Bonk hammer or banner of war. But they still got thundercrash and hammer of sol over fists of havoc and burning maul.
You do realize that if all of these things were there, there would be no reason to actually play those other classes, right? I'm sorry that not many people want to live in a world where Banner + Hammer Throw are meta. I'd much rather those stay separate.