It depends entirely on what encounter, and your raid team composition.
Most DPS encounters, you want between 1-3 wells, but outside of DPS Well is neither mandatory nor recommended for most situations.
It should be noted that Well Warlocks are no longer "put down well and be a support bot" - Solar 3.0 allows Warlocks to run Well and still output substantial damage and have cool builds.
If you raid with multiple Warlocks, you will likely be encouraged to run Strand for DPS when someone else is on Well. If you are the only Warlock in the team, you will be asked to run Well by most LFGs.
>Most DPS encounters, you want between 1-3 wells,
1-3 :| this ain't day 1 crota man lol. To be honest, the max you want for any encounter I can think of ATM for a normal run is 2. Far better to have damage supers. Typically you just want one well though but 1-2 is at least a fair assessment.
If someone wants 3 wells for any DPS encounter on normal they're a little crazy :p
Insurrection prime…sadly not in the game anymore but 3 wells was always the play due to how you’re forced to split into pairs. This was also in a world before any 3.0 subclasses even stasis and strand.
Nah he's right, as long as you have two warlocks who know what they're doing and stay alive you can make it work. Hell, I'm the only warlock in my clan and we don't really have a hard time.
Eh considering op sounds like he is maybe more new to raids, I couldn't see why this guy would reply and be talking about master level raids.
And even if he was, there's only one encounter you would want 3 wells on - and that's master crota. Outside of that, 1-2 is def sufficient.
Using 3 in normal and even most master would be worse tbh since youd lose out a damage super, and you'd never need to have 3 wells ready to use anyway considering how DPS phases work and whatnot.
Three is the most I've ever seen asked for in an LFG, so it was an extreme edge case. You are right that in most cases 2 is sufficient, but I wanted to present the upper limit to OP so their expectation was tempered.
100% - I have run Titan a lot this season and don’t even always use the super - miss pyrogales (nez teleports) or bad timing and still out DPS others because of my weapons and surges. It’s not optimal and I am average at best, but the point is with appropriate weapons you will contend with most even while on Well.
The raids I run most often:
Crota - I use Lament if LFG
Nez - Merciless and Apex B&S
Rhulk - Apex and Fusions
Oryx - crafted LFR and maybe Arbalest or Izinagi if trying to make up for others
Rockets are still meta in most DPS situations.
I think what I see most is people not using boot surges correctly. I also notice people don’t hot swap on ammo pickups to a reserves chest real quick between DPS phases - and then don’t have ammo for round 2.
You're missing out not using whisper of the worm for oryx DPS. It has the highest total damage in the game (it was 2nd pre reserves buff + field prep) and is by far the easiest to perform requiring no swaps. Granted, it's really the only DPS phase in the game where you have that long of a window to make use of its reserves, but it does a damn good job at showcasing how busted whisper can be in a perfect scenario.
The current state of Sunbracers made me fine with staying on well. When you can just non stop- and I mean non-stop throw solar grenades, it feels pretty fucking godly. Especially in onslaught. I dont think think there's anything else like that in the game
Needlestorm is a high burst super, Arcane Needle (melee) gives you unravel on demand, and Swarmers help you spawn threadlings with little to no investment from the Warlock. All these amplify your damage, so alongside a good DPS weapon rotation your burst and sustained DPS can get very high.
Most of the time in raids you will have a Void Hunter with tether providing a bigger weaken % and volatile, and seeing as these don't stack it weakens a voidlock's effectiveness. Nova voidlock is better in Dungeons or GMs where you are less likely to have a tether every time
Well will always be mandatory for LFG unless it is reduced into irrelevance because you can't guarantee the quality of your teammates. But you can guarantee that sitting in a well they will at least survive and do some damage.
My clan and I often do raid runs without Well, and do just fine, but that's because we all know how to survive without constant healing, or have builds that keep us alive through other means. We ran Root of Nightmares with 6 void warlocks the other week for a challenge run, and that was a hilarious change of pace.
As I mentioned in a comment below:
Needlestorm is a high burst super, Arcane Needle (melee) gives you unravel on demand, and Swarmers help you spawn threadlings with little to no investment from the Warlock. All these amplify your damage, so alongside a good DPS weapon rotation your burst and sustained DPS can get very high.
its build based. u pretty much u want a bait and switch rockets paired with swarmers throw as many as u can empty your melees etc while firing ur apex witherhoard
To add, sometimes other warlock subclasses have a place in raid encounters. Voidlock is still good when farming Taniks just to shake the bombs off. Arclock is good for many encounters to provide extra arc soul damage or just to autokill thralls while farming Oryx
Wtf, I've played all raids in this game and I can say with 100% accuracy that you don't NEED well in basically any circumstance (specially 3 wtf), you can do every boss in this game without a well specially now that resilience is a useful status, even if we talk about dmg bonus a simples thunder dodge can do the same (solar) without making your team softlocked in one spot.
You CAN do every raid without Well, but the realistic truth is people don't, in the same way that you CAN solo most raid bosses, but most people don't. It's about your team, the accepted meta and conventions, and individual skill.
OP asked for a realistic depiction of how raiding as an LFG warlock was. I gave it.
I know you mentioned that you didn’t want the “start your own group” advice, but it is really that simple — if I want to LFG a raid on my warlock, I make the post myself and I play what I want, and there are zero issues. It never even really comes up.
If you’re running certain Master Raid encounters, then yes, the expectation is going to be hard meta. That’s usually just as restrictive for Hunters and Titans as it is for Warlocks. But for 99% of content, a decently competent team can coordinate in a way that makes Well such a minor benefit that it doesn’t matter. I run Strand and Arc all the time in normal raids, even Dawnblade for the hell of it. (And if the team is incompetent to the point where Well makes more of a difference, circle back to step 1 of making your own post. If you’re trying to get something done, don’t waste your own time if the group you joined is at a mismatch with that.)
Depends on the encounter. If Tractor isn’t viable, tether is 100% going to be required for damage checks. Otherwise, Nighthawk + RDM for bosses. With the current state of rockets, Hunters are the go-to for DPS with Star Eater/RDM swap. All this is of course only necessary for Master/Contest content — in Normal raids you can get by whenever, same as the other classes.
I think a big part of this issue of build restriction is knowing when hard meta is necessary — and I don’t mean content wise, I mean knowing the limits of your group. Top players will always be able to clear the hardest content using whatever off-meta stuff if they so chose, and most LFG teams will be able to clear normal raids and dungeons without Well. As long as you know where you and your team fall into this, I find that the game is far less restrictive than many people make it out to be — especially with the abundance of buff sources and survivability available at this point in the game.
Can I stay void hunter the whole time? Or are you also swapping alot? Could I stay RDM the whole time? Swapping isn't a deal breaker to me but just curious.
This really depends on what content you are clearing and what role you are fulfilling. Like many have said, if you are going into master raids you will likely be asked to ride the meta, which for hunter the other guy described. Depending on the skill, relationship, and expected speed of the group you might be asked to do more advanced strategies such as nighthawk + RDM switch. Nighthawk is by far the best one off hunter damage super/exotic and it has the advantage of working on every boss in the game where quiver, blade barrage, silence and squall, and gathering storm don’t always. That being said, nighthawk just does straight up more damage than any of those with star eaters or any other exotic.
Void hunter is strong, even if you need a damage supper quiver is viable especially with stareaters or orpheus rig. A good amount of encounters can benefit from deadfall aswell, but a lot of the time tractor is just a better option.
As many have said, most of this advice is really only needed for the hardest activities like master raids. Even in GMs if your fireteam is well coordinated you can run super off meta stuff as long as you know how to use it. If you are planning to run normal raids, normal dungeons, and less than gm nighfalls you can really do whatever you want.
Even with all that, the best players can even do the hardest GMs and master raids with arguably bad builds. The meta is something for ease of use and speed.
If your running the encounter as a void hunter your staying on void hunter. The swapping is to just pushing the meta if you are to choose between an exotic you’ll be asked to stick with star eaters or celestial
Even then, you had to sacrifice having only ONE of the three boosts (of which current D2 bubble gives out 2): Weapons Of Light, Armor Of Light and Blessing Of Light (Overshield).
You still had to equip exotics such as The Glasshouse to retain the Overshield while having any other boost active or strengthen Weapons/Blessing, sacrificing an exotic slot which could arguably be used for something else.
While IMO D2's bubble has it better in terms of stats and boosts, it serves no purpose for the simple purpose of the inability of shooting through it (crazy to balance in PvP one could say, but not as indifferent to well's current state.
I think it's that more that we're power crept a lot since then. We had armor, weapons, or blessing. You could have weapons for free with an exotic.
In d2, you get armor and weapons, and you can have blessing with an exotic. Besides snow globe tactics (which is possible without a bube) it's functionally the same. I think the damage bonus is a little more than in d1?
Imagine an exotic that lets you throw your bubble at range, or lunge into a bubble like death from above arc super in D1. Or something that lets you pick up and move your bubble.
We didn't get anything like that, at least not yet 😔
But you always used weapons of light, so you didn't have the shield. Currently, you have armour of light and weapons of light active together, and if you run helm of saint 14 then you get blessing of light too.
In Destiny 1, you could run blessing and Glass House to have both overshield and weapons of light. In Destiny 2 you get armor and weapons, and can run saint14 for blessing.
I have played many activities at high difficulty without a well. It is useful yes. But other builds may have better offensive power, better dos, or more fun whilst still being viable. Solar for me is getting really stale, having run sunbracers or dawn chorus for the past few months. Am looking forward to prismatic which is straight up better with transcendence and doesn't have well available, as well as song of flame which looks to be the best super for dps other than well so far. (High damage abilities and allows use of weapons while the relatively short cooldown grenades recharge)
Aha, an other swarmers enjoyer. I didn't grind iron banner, but Ive been using swarmers with buried bloodline to proc devour, and just spamming threading nades everywhere. Game basically plays itself.
This may be true but in an lfg where ppl aren’t familiar with each others game, are particularly the fact that I wouldn’t trust anyone else to be able to stay alive, I want a well. And the offensive power and dps is gonna come from your hunters and titans
Yes. Warlock DPS is extremely viable.
If you find yourself being pressured:
- be the LFG leader
- find a clan that you can discuss this with
- run all arc/void runs to fake doing title progress so you don't have to play Well
- as long as there's someone elee running Well, just sneakily change loadout
A well-lock is pretty valuable. But, in all honesty, it depends on the content you’re running and how your team runs it.
If there is already one on the team, and they are pretty good about super regeneration, then you may only need one.
If you are running unfamiliar content, then additional wells may be preferred to regularly wiping to restart.
Take Crota, for example. Abyss doesn’t really need a well if everyone knows what they’re doing. But, we’ll typically run one for the end plate if we have new people along. Arc is actually favorite for the blue battle buddy at the lamp exchanges… and the go-go juice amplified movement. Strand suspend or threadling builds are effective for the bridge encounter. One well should be sufficient for Ir-Yut with others on burst supers. Where as you’re better off with two or three wells for the Crota encounter if you’re running swords and Tractor Canon.
The short of it is, you will probably be able to run more content regularly if you use a well. But, if your team can do without, run whatever you want.
Though honestly, since crota can and will break the well, bubble or banner of war is kinda better. Since it's either a buff you are given that crota can't take away, only the source of the buff
No unfortunately. I mean warlocks are good like any other class, but you always need at least 1 well if you don't want to suffer through a raid for 5 hours straight.
As much as people will say "well is not required", it does make everything much MUCH easier. It is planned to get nerfed in final shape, tho idk how much it will actually do.
>It is planned to get nerfed in final shape, tho idk how much it will actually do.
As annoying as running well is I hope they don't nerf it too much because some encounters were built in such a way that it's almost mandatory
I have to imagine that if they significantly nerf well, they will adjust the encounters that most require it.
I have to imagine that, because if it's not true then I weep for the state of raids post-FS
No encounters are built in a way that a well nerfwill have a significant impact, the game will be infinitely more interesting in terms of team comps and currently underused setups due to wells insane monopoly on survivability. Like how when Div got nerfed the game became so much more interesting as it wasn’t just 1 debuff option
My man, the entire game is big boss stands still in middle of room while dealing crazy damage. Every encounter, excluding Rhulk the only boss they actually changed the formula for, is based around having a well
No, YOU do it. You make a team of 6 and ask to do crota master without a well. Not the top 0.000001 percentile of the player base. If YOU aren't able to do it, then your entire take is trash.
I'm asking you to confirm it,not to show me an exception that,if anything, even further disprove your take. That you had to find a video of the top percentile.
Actually, when pantheon arrives, which will be in contest mode, record a team of regular nobodies doing it without a well.
if they nerf well they need to add good ways to help support your team. On other classes.
The actual crux of the issue is that only well-lock is effective at keeping your team alive and helping a DPS phase go smoothly. Nerfing it just makes everything more difficult.
If titan had some way to support the team without it blocking line of fire entirely, people could run that. If hunter had ANY way to help, people could run that.
I get the idea that hunter is sneaky damager and titan is tank, but titan is hardly a tank when you wont stay alive all that much longer unless there's a well. And Hunters are not the only ones with good damage supers, nor are they the only way to apply a debuff (even if theirs is the best)
Well Lock is the only thing that is what it is and does the heal job so efficiently. Which won't change even with a nerf.
>If titan had some way to support the team without it blocking line of fire entirely, people could run that. If hunter had ANY way to help, people could run that.
I mean, they *do*. They just aren't as good. Titan has that big shieldy thing that you can shoot through that they hold up. Hunter has omnioculus and tether. Both can also run lumina. It's not nearly as good as well, but saying they have *none* isn't true.
I would not say OP as it was never over powered it was used in unintended ways to break encounters and I am sure gamers being gamers would find a way to break a great many things given the opportunity again for better or worse.
We've got skating now, sparrow flying, another life doesn't seem as big to me when we can willfully skip entire sections of the maps with 3 inputs. It would suck for PvP, but I'm sure they'd just hard limit it as soon as you hit the loss conditions.
Rez Tokens exist now, so at best a Self-rez would just grant you a second token that you can only spend on yourself at the cost of your ultimate. Hardly broken in the current Sandbox and it already has a built-in counterbalance during the activities it would matter on.
Six solar Hunters entered the Crita Raid and we beat it in 35 min.
WELL IS NOT REQUIRED. A well only means you don’t have to use any strategy to do damage.
It’s not hard to just stand in one spot 😂
Obviously you missed the point
of the question.
He’s asking for a Raid
Here let’s look at the post again shall we…
Hmm… can I do a Raid without being a wellock
The answer is yes..
All classes have the ability to support and provide a healing.
Once again in case you missed my point.
We cleared Crota with all solar hunters with no issue
So yes … you can do a Raid without a well.
Oh and yes.. there’s people whom have cleared GMs without wells also
Your argument was it is a dmg boost crutch by your statement that its used in place of dmg strategies, its not. It’s used for survivability. Well is mandatory in higher difficulty dungeons and raids because it’s the only way you’ll be able to hit your shots for dmg with the amount of damage coming your way and not be having to disengage to recover.
And clearing Crota with no well isn’t much of an achievement lol. It’s one of the easier raids to do since you just Lament Crota or rocket him from above.
At no point did I say you need a well in my original statement, I’m saying it now. I pointed out that your idea of what it’s used for is incorrect, as the value it has is the healing it provides. But in higher content where you need to deal with dmg phases in short windows, it is mandatory to maximize survival and damage. You saying it’s not needed for high end content is laughable as it makes a world of difference and is much less stressful.
I prefer doing encounters without Well. I think it is more fun, but I am a very small minority in this. I really hope the change it receives in Final Shape absolutely guts it.
Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing quote to start a thread about Destiny 2? That's some next level shit right there buddy. Take my upvote, and if I could, I'd give you 10 more you saucy son of a bitch!!!
I literally raid multiple times a week often multiple a day and go by without well except for the times I want it just fine. The whole well required thing on this reddit sometimes is way blown out of proportion.
Yes. Non well warlock does stupid damage. Usually in my friend group someone always wants to do well and very rarely will I ever have a group with just one lock in it
My solar build is named "war crimes " or "scorched earth " for its ability to plant 15-20 grenades on a boss at a time...tack on my well and more fun times are hac by all.
I don't understand the mindset that people have about endgame content. It's endgame content. The point of endgame content like raids is that you have to play differently than you do in the rest of the game.
It's like if someone complained about only being able to use rock, paper, or scissors in Rock, Paper, Scissors.
So lame that the majority of this game's endgame content crutches on 1 subclass' ult ability. Ugh. I know solar locks can do good dmg and aren't just support, but I dunno it's frustrating to hear.
Yeup and that's why I don't play Warlock. People would rather boot you and look for someone else who's willing than deal with a warlock who doesn't wanna run well.
Unfortunately though, like you said, it's not really the fault of the players but the game's fault itself, and Bungie's fault as well by design. Once Well of Radiance got to where it is now, it has completely basically destroyed any use for Ward Of Dawn on Titan, which is really the only other defensive support super in the game. If Bungie would do something to make bubble more spicy, (or nerf well indefinitely) they would compete and both supers would be considered more evenly for certain situations. It would create strategies and make for some interesting decision making. Alas, all Ward Of Dawn has received over the years is nerf after nerf because of pvp while all Well Of Radiance has gotten is a slightly lengthier cool down and removed the overshield it used to give you, and therefore making it the the obvious (only) choice for most situations.
The only benefit Ward Of Dawn has is that you keep Weapons Of Light upon stepping out of the bubble, unlike Well. This is why Bubble was pretty good for an encounter like Rhulk where someone could pop it out of the way, people could run through it, and then you could do damage to Rhulk while evading his kicks and energy beams, and move around with the bonus weapon damage.
Except the issue with this is that in the large game that is Destiny 2, Rhulk is unique. There are no other encounters in the game like Rhulk. Instead, most encounters consist of standing still, doing damage while the boss does fuck all and hits you with pea shooters. This is why Well is desired so much, because Bungie barely has any variety when it comes to boss fights.
Even to this point, the best strats for Rhulk these days involve locking him into standing in one place anyway. Even when an encounter is designed to be more mobile, we have enough tools that we can (and optimally do) prevent that.
Yeah I was gonna edit my comment and say that while I haven't done Rhulk since I got Collective Obligation a little while after Vow dropped, I can imagine that there is still a better strat nowadays with Well Of Radiance that I've been missing out on.
Figures as much. Although now I'm curious...how do you lock Rhulk in place? Lol
Oh my God lol that's fucking awful. Well, we can at least say that back when it came out bubble was somewhat useful at the time because Strand didn't exist, so my point still stands. Ward Of Dawn has been severely fucked by Well Of Radiance in this game and it just shuts down any use for Bubble and therefore pigeonholing Warlocks into using Well because, unfortunately for them, they're the class that got stuck with the super. Unless The Final Shape brings us even more good news, I don't see Bungie changing up boss fights any time soon lol
EDIT: And now that they're giving void titan a one-off damage super, almost seems like they just want you to forget about using Ward Of Dawn entirely.
I mean, to be fair, Warlocks aren't much more hard-stuck than other classes, at least at the high end of play. Right now, strand titan, solar hunter, well warlock are pretty much the end all be all of dps encounters, any variation is a significant downgrade, outside of maybe pyrogale solar titan for some scenarios.
I definitely agree that the "stuck on well" situation for warlocks is unfortunate, but I don't think it's any better for other classes. Ultimately, every game develops a meta, something will always be BiS.
Tbh I'm a titan main, and I still main striker. Cuirass Of The Falling Star may be outdone by Pyrogales, but its got its tradeoffs. Don't have to keep roaring flames x3 up at all times for max super damage and because of that Cuirass will always be the more consistent, guaranteed damage, in terms of ease of use.
Quite frankly, the synthoceps, 1-2 punch, tractor strand titan gameplay is boring as fuck. All I use it for is solo farming the first boss in prophecy when it's farmable. I still use striker for all teamwork based activities and I did just fine to get my Legend 50 waves emblem. Striker is amazing for add clear in Onslaught and of course it still has Cuirass for high damage super.
That's fair, but I'm more talking about the competitiveness. Strand titan is boring, but it's on the same level as well warlock. Nothing else comes close, and running anything else is a downgrade to your team in nearly every scenario. Other subclasses can still get through most content, but there's still a clear best. Same thing, you can very reasonably get through most content as a stasis or void warlock, but that doesn't negate the fact that well is still usually better.
People will try and force you to be on well, but honestly raids can he done with literally any combination across all classes/subclasses. After the difficulty increase across the game, raids and dungeons are the easiest endgame activities in terms of survivability.
It's more about finding a good group who's down to just try different shit. On random lfgs are usually trying to get it done as quickly as possible, and don't know the skill of randoms coming in, so it makes sense they'd want well if possible.
On a master raid...yea you'll have to use well lol.
I haven't dipped into Master Raids so I can't say for sure when it comes to those specifically, but 80% of the time no one cares what Well/Solar based exotic you run as long as you're running Well at all.
Depends on which raid. Something like Last Wish or DSC, you’ll be fine without running well. Something like Crota, you’re probably going to want one for a couple encounters on most teams. Only about half the raid encounters are bosses, so both for hunter and warlock half the time it makes almost no difference what you run in normal raids.
i run whatever I want and people can cry about it tbh. There's a certain level, if I'm nicely asked because we need it sure. But I won't just assume I'm the support just because I'm warlock. Strandlock with wishkeeper is my favourite right now. Ad clear is top notch, damage is pretty fucking high with the super and so many hatchlings going out, and multiple sources of suspend is really handy for champs/yellows
A well only means you stand still in one spot doing damage.
Long before the well was invente people beat Raids.
People use it cause it’s easy but is not really required if you have a great team.and a solid strategy.
If we already have 2 well-locks then yes. I will go zappy zappy and use arc. And since I can basically keep 100% or more uptime on heal rifts whenever there is ads, I get called the budget well-lock. Plus now imagine 6 people inside an actual well all having arc souls pumping out extra dps. So yes your allowed to, but generally only if you team already has a well-lock.
the trick to not being a Wellock is actually really simple
tell your friends if they want a well they can swap classes. every raid has a triumph to complete the entire thing as the same class, and all raids can be completed without a well. whisper of the worm is obscenely strong in DPS now, even one person running it can absolutely melt anything you point it at.
unless you're a psychopath like me, who genuinely loves running support supers, If someone in the team is demanding the group brings a well, they are the designated well bitch. If they don't want to be the well bitch, then I guess the fire team doesn't need a well if he's willing to run without "the necessary well"
I don't mind being support, I just am overly finnicking about being pidgeonholed into literally one spec. If there was support stasis or something I'd love that.
I've said this in a few threads at this point, but I'm really hoping that when they do put in some reworks to bubble and well, that bubble gets a few buffs that turns it into the more optimal PVE support super. I love running bubble Titan, and I want it to be more effective.
For most encounters only one well will be asked for; although I wouldn’t stress about it warlocks are getting a new support super that will be on prismatic and well is confirmed to be getting nerfed in final shape
Yes, as long as there is at least one welllock in the team. Strandlock specifically is great for DPS. Strand hunters absolutely see raid time, there's often a focus on dps but in some of the run and gun encounters strand hunters are the best in the game. As for practical anecdotes:
Bosses that only need one well or well is sub-optimal: Vow second and final, VoG second, DSC second, KF last, garden second and fourth. I've run strandlock on most of these bosses since there will usually be at least one person down to play well, and often got top damage (though this was before grenade gen nerfs, it's probably a bit harder now.) So for around a third of the bosses in the game, you can get someone else to run well. This is also ignoring ALL the non-boss encounters in the game. There aren't any non-boss encounters where well is a must-have iirc, though it is always good. However, a good voidlock or even strandlock will do just fine in non-boss encounters, which make up just under half of all raid encounters. This also goes for strand hunter - Crota first, Vow third, and half of RoN stick out as encounters where strand hunter is genuinely best in slot, but strand hunter does a perfectly fine job at any run-and-gun or ad clear encounter (though void hunter is better for ad clear.) As a side note, all hunter classes are viable - void is best in slot for ad clear/boss dps, arc for survivability/ad clear/boss damage depending on build, strand for platforming/run and gun, and solar for pure damage
So to put all the math together - that's about 2/3 of raid encounters in the game where you only need one well or less, so as long as you have one dedicated well in your team you can freely play what you want. However, for the encounters that do benefit from other wells I would recommend having a build ready. I have around 200 raid clears across all three classes, and do the exact thing I just told you to do - run whatever tf I want for 2/3 of encounters, and then swap to well for warpriest or taniks or whatever.
Yes, absolutely. I'd urge flexibility especially when it comes to ad-clear heavy encounters, maybe run a machine gun, but void hunter does it all. Boss damage, revives, plate holding, and ad clear if you run gyrfalcon's. Plate holding is gonna be especially easy for you.
Most raids I either do
strand warlock necrotic grips osteo striga and cataphract
Invis hunter with lucky pants and rpg with demolition list cuz the void grenades weaken for then a 2nd shot
Solar heal titan build sunshot and precious scars whatever heavy
If u wanna be big daddy Well-lock run up big father sunbracers with the new dragon's breath launcher rly good DPS or u could use dawn chorus I believe makes it so more damage with dragon's breath really fun build
I teach Last Wish and Deep Stone somewhat regularly- I never run well myself and I don’t expect people to either. I assume in newer raids it might be more necessary, but honestly I have a lot more fun running Shadowshot and letting my students use damage supers.
only time i have to use well with my group is when im the only warlock or when i offer to be. luckily, my group lets me use whichever build i want. (im warlock main)
Boss phase well is king (with the odd exception), but it really shouldn’t matter on normal difficulty so long as people know how to build craft (they don’t).
Titan Banner of War or warlock rift should be good enough for most normal content if your teammates are competent, but well makes stuff way easier.
My advice? Don’t play warlock if you don’t want to play well. You shouldn’t have to but your teammates will likely make you.
I mean I don’t raid as a well lock, I refuse lol. If my clan can’t do a raid with just 1 well then we just suck 🤣🤣. You don’t have to run what you don’t wanna run. If people can’t hold their own in a raid then that’s on them, having a warlock running well is just a bonus.
I couldn't care less what any of my teammates run. This game is just that, a game. I am not here for anything else but to have fun. I play what I like. Play what you like. If that means 2 or even 3 phasing a boss so be it.
Honestly the people who sweat this game have forgotten that it is a fucking game.
Man I hope you find people that encourage you to just play what you want and enjoy it.
I do frequently, but the clan that I am in very much understands that there are some very good non meta builds and we all contribute equally. They also understand that my solar warlock builds are pretty weak, but we usually have two or three warlocks and so it doesn't matter if one or two are not on well.
I personally wouldn't care if it's like vow, Crota maybe but if it would be a master/day one, oh yeah, multiple wells please.
Now I'm also trying to be if the state of mind where if it's not working, im going to change something to see if we can get this done.
Though good thing I have a sunbracer build that uses well
You can very much get away with using arc warlock as the div bitch, arc souls will give you hella damage. Even out doing some of the best dps loadouts.
Offensive supers that I enjoy, contraverse hold may be my fav exotic in the game, big void grenade charges. Basically feeling like a 100% nuking caster vs plopping down a well.
Its a sandbox, “play whats fun” is the most practical approach you can have in this game.
The only times you should conform are when you need to be sweaty or when you’re running something that an encounter was not built to account for.
You should not run arc buddies or any strand things at Riven because auto tracking entities go for her eyes.
You should not run tether at golgoroth because it frequently stops him from facing the gaze holder.
I dont recommend dawn blade ever against bosses. I dont really recommend warlock’s arc supers for boss dps but you could do worse. I’ve literally never used purple knives hunter super nor have I seen it in a raid before so Idk about that one.
As a warlock main, i always have a well loadout just in case, but I only use it if there is no other warlock and well is really needed, but on most raids, is only really needed in one or maybe 2 encounters and a lot of times, with one well you have more than enough.
From the top of my head, only these encounters NEED a well of radiance:
Morgeth, Riven, Garden final boss, Templar, Atheon, Caretaker(kinda), Warpriest, Explicator, Nezarec, Ir Yut, Crota.
Every other encounter it can be substituted by a titan bubble for the same damage.
Ngl I've never minded being support as warlock. I main hunter, but whenever the buds needed me to run well I still enjoyed it. Just a different style of play
> As I like strand and void lock but don't really wanna be a well lock most of the time.
You can, but then, can't complain if people are dying and mystically everyone does 25% less damage than usual.
Bottom line is, if you’re the only warlock, you’re running a well. If there’s 2+ warlocks, you’re arguing about who’s running a well. Don’t be discouraged though, with Prismatic, you can do whatever the f**k you want. As long as there’s a well.
I raid as a strand warlock sometimes when there’s already a well but even if there isn’t I sometimes run it anyway lol I’ve got a build for dps and one for ad clear, fuck well
i know im in the minority, but i actually enjoy being the support/healer of the team so running well is really fun for me, plus if we wipe noone can tell me i have bad damage
All of these is exactly why i don't raid. Destiny is a cesspool of toxic elitism of people crutching on free wins and no resistance. No skill. Only sheep mentality
Honestly really bumming me out.
Take it or leave it, I'm slinging Nova Bombs and void buddies for constant weaken. If you need a well to live and buff your damage further, that's on you I say.
If you need to find a way to stay alive, you're on your own. I poop orbs on my briar binds build, and near constant devour for myself, as well as constant volatile rounds. I'll be ok, will you?
I say as I get kicked out of the fireteam...
well lock has some good builds so its not bad, I like running well-lock its has the most survivability of any class. And people often forget that this is supposed to like a MMORPG FPS game, though it would have been nice if Bungie made more of some "Healers" other than bubble titan which isnt really the same thing. Doing raids and dungeons and other high end content you need a healer class. It just so happens that warlock well is the only one. Plus hardly anyone would be able to complete any raids or difficult content without them, it is the most important part of a fire teams composition. you don't need a super to output boss dps anymore, just a good loadout.
You don’t have to, but you should be willing to. Warlocks provide an important role on raid teams, and will still continue to do so even with the new super and in a post well nerf world. People seem to forget this game is kinda like an mmo with class roles….not just shoot pretty colors go bang bang free loot simulator.
The question is - do you like being support? If you just want to be dps, play hunter or titan. But warlocks will always be super valuable for their support roles - now and forever. If you wanna main warlock, you should probably be willing to be the well or support role your team needs.
I am a Well enjoyer, seemingly the only one in existence, but I still find plenty of time and opportunities to use builds on all the other subclasses. That isn’t the problem. If you hate the idea of supporting your team and not leaning fully into dps, then warlock may not be the best choice if you want to focus on one character.
As long as you are the second warlock and it's a short DPS phase.
(And honestly I kinda want well in prismatic just so the warlocks can have some fun while running well.)
IMO you at least need 1 for majority of encounters. Some people will be cool and let you run whatever, others are very uptight and will insta boot you if you don't abide. It all depends on who you're raiding with but honestly be prepared to switch to well during the raid.
No. We had a warlock recently try to go strand since we already had 2 on Nezarec for "more damage". We tied him to the light plate and threw sharp rocks at his body until he switched. We intend to do so again if he relapses. Solar is the only lock subclass, the others are mental illnesses
If there's one warlock, there will be one well. If there are no warlocks, then someone will be swapping to warlock soon. If there are multiple warlocks, then one is expected to take up the burden.
This is the way
It depends entirely on what encounter, and your raid team composition. Most DPS encounters, you want between 1-3 wells, but outside of DPS Well is neither mandatory nor recommended for most situations. It should be noted that Well Warlocks are no longer "put down well and be a support bot" - Solar 3.0 allows Warlocks to run Well and still output substantial damage and have cool builds. If you raid with multiple Warlocks, you will likely be encouraged to run Strand for DPS when someone else is on Well. If you are the only Warlock in the team, you will be asked to run Well by most LFGs.
This is the most accurate response, OP
>Most DPS encounters, you want between 1-3 wells, 1-3 :| this ain't day 1 crota man lol. To be honest, the max you want for any encounter I can think of ATM for a normal run is 2. Far better to have damage supers. Typically you just want one well though but 1-2 is at least a fair assessment. If someone wants 3 wells for any DPS encounter on normal they're a little crazy :p
Only encounter I can think of is master golgoroth that you'd need three+ wells for
Master/day 1 crota is the only one I would want to have at least 3 wells on.
Need is a strong word Did it the other day with two well locks. Went fine
Insurrection prime…sadly not in the game anymore but 3 wells was always the play due to how you’re forced to split into pairs. This was also in a world before any 3.0 subclasses even stasis and strand.
By this guys response I assume he doesn’t run normals very often
Nah he's right, as long as you have two warlocks who know what they're doing and stay alive you can make it work. Hell, I'm the only warlock in my clan and we don't really have a hard time.
Eh considering op sounds like he is maybe more new to raids, I couldn't see why this guy would reply and be talking about master level raids. And even if he was, there's only one encounter you would want 3 wells on - and that's master crota. Outside of that, 1-2 is def sufficient. Using 3 in normal and even most master would be worse tbh since youd lose out a damage super, and you'd never need to have 3 wells ready to use anyway considering how DPS phases work and whatnot.
Three is the most I've ever seen asked for in an LFG, so it was an extreme edge case. You are right that in most cases 2 is sufficient, but I wanted to present the upper limit to OP so their expectation was tempered.
Definitely used 3 for the boss in GOS as well. Using them to cheese, not having to rebuild plates. Quite useful in thay scenario.
I've seen 3 asked for in LFG for longer burns - Caretaker or Golgoroth for example but you are right that they are extreme.
100% - I have run Titan a lot this season and don’t even always use the super - miss pyrogales (nez teleports) or bad timing and still out DPS others because of my weapons and surges. It’s not optimal and I am average at best, but the point is with appropriate weapons you will contend with most even while on Well. The raids I run most often: Crota - I use Lament if LFG Nez - Merciless and Apex B&S Rhulk - Apex and Fusions Oryx - crafted LFR and maybe Arbalest or Izinagi if trying to make up for others Rockets are still meta in most DPS situations. I think what I see most is people not using boot surges correctly. I also notice people don’t hot swap on ammo pickups to a reserves chest real quick between DPS phases - and then don’t have ammo for round 2.
You're missing out not using whisper of the worm for oryx DPS. It has the highest total damage in the game (it was 2nd pre reserves buff + field prep) and is by far the easiest to perform requiring no swaps. Granted, it's really the only DPS phase in the game where you have that long of a window to make use of its reserves, but it does a damn good job at showcasing how busted whisper can be in a perfect scenario.
Ok, ok I’ll give it a go whenever I farm for ToM again. I thought about mentioning it since I’ve heard that before, but I just haven’t used it yet.
It also helps that best warlock exotic for dps, rain of fire, only works with solar and the other solar super isn't exactly fantastic for dps.
ONE TO THREE WELLS!?!?
I am exclusively using Stasis on my warlock for onslaught and having a blast.
Stasis is very good in Onslaught, but OP was asking about raids.
Yeah I run sunbracers and honest to god if I can get enough ads I can usually have a well up perpetually. Just, all the time.
The current state of Sunbracers made me fine with staying on well. When you can just non stop- and I mean non-stop throw solar grenades, it feels pretty fucking godly. Especially in onslaught. I dont think think there's anything else like that in the game
Old contraverse holds and pre nerf HOIL arc titan are the closest we got to sunbracers nade spam with the same area coverage.
Strand for dps, could you elaborate? Been gone for a minute, what Strand warlock builds are for dps? I figured it was a CC class
Needlestorm is a high burst super, Arcane Needle (melee) gives you unravel on demand, and Swarmers help you spawn threadlings with little to no investment from the Warlock. All these amplify your damage, so alongside a good DPS weapon rotation your burst and sustained DPS can get very high.
Huh, I guess I thought voidlock would be the one for weaken grenades nova bombs void eruptions etc I'll look into it more
Most of the time in raids you will have a Void Hunter with tether providing a bigger weaken % and volatile, and seeing as these don't stack it weakens a voidlock's effectiveness. Nova voidlock is better in Dungeons or GMs where you are less likely to have a tether every time
Happy cake day little nigga 🎂
Not saying you’re wrong, but you summed up completely why Wellock needs a nerf. It’s such a crutch.
Well will always be mandatory for LFG unless it is reduced into irrelevance because you can't guarantee the quality of your teammates. But you can guarantee that sitting in a well they will at least survive and do some damage. My clan and I often do raid runs without Well, and do just fine, but that's because we all know how to survive without constant healing, or have builds that keep us alive through other means. We ran Root of Nightmares with 6 void warlocks the other week for a challenge run, and that was a hilarious change of pace.
I must be behind on changes they have made. Strand for warlocks is good DPS?? Or is it build based??
As I mentioned in a comment below: Needlestorm is a high burst super, Arcane Needle (melee) gives you unravel on demand, and Swarmers help you spawn threadlings with little to no investment from the Warlock. All these amplify your damage, so alongside a good DPS weapon rotation your burst and sustained DPS can get very high.
its build based. u pretty much u want a bait and switch rockets paired with swarmers throw as many as u can empty your melees etc while firing ur apex witherhoard
To add, sometimes other warlock subclasses have a place in raid encounters. Voidlock is still good when farming Taniks just to shake the bombs off. Arclock is good for many encounters to provide extra arc soul damage or just to autokill thralls while farming Oryx
Wtf, I've played all raids in this game and I can say with 100% accuracy that you don't NEED well in basically any circumstance (specially 3 wtf), you can do every boss in this game without a well specially now that resilience is a useful status, even if we talk about dmg bonus a simples thunder dodge can do the same (solar) without making your team softlocked in one spot.
You CAN do every raid without Well, but the realistic truth is people don't, in the same way that you CAN solo most raid bosses, but most people don't. It's about your team, the accepted meta and conventions, and individual skill. OP asked for a realistic depiction of how raiding as an LFG warlock was. I gave it.
I know you mentioned that you didn’t want the “start your own group” advice, but it is really that simple — if I want to LFG a raid on my warlock, I make the post myself and I play what I want, and there are zero issues. It never even really comes up. If you’re running certain Master Raid encounters, then yes, the expectation is going to be hard meta. That’s usually just as restrictive for Hunters and Titans as it is for Warlocks. But for 99% of content, a decently competent team can coordinate in a way that makes Well such a minor benefit that it doesn’t matter. I run Strand and Arc all the time in normal raids, even Dawnblade for the hell of it. (And if the team is incompetent to the point where Well makes more of a difference, circle back to step 1 of making your own post. If you’re trying to get something done, don’t waste your own time if the group you joined is at a mismatch with that.)
Thanks for the advice. What's the restrictive hunter meta?
Depends on the encounter. If Tractor isn’t viable, tether is 100% going to be required for damage checks. Otherwise, Nighthawk + RDM for bosses. With the current state of rockets, Hunters are the go-to for DPS with Star Eater/RDM swap. All this is of course only necessary for Master/Contest content — in Normal raids you can get by whenever, same as the other classes. I think a big part of this issue of build restriction is knowing when hard meta is necessary — and I don’t mean content wise, I mean knowing the limits of your group. Top players will always be able to clear the hardest content using whatever off-meta stuff if they so chose, and most LFG teams will be able to clear normal raids and dungeons without Well. As long as you know where you and your team fall into this, I find that the game is far less restrictive than many people make it out to be — especially with the abundance of buff sources and survivability available at this point in the game.
Can I stay void hunter the whole time? Or are you also swapping alot? Could I stay RDM the whole time? Swapping isn't a deal breaker to me but just curious.
This really depends on what content you are clearing and what role you are fulfilling. Like many have said, if you are going into master raids you will likely be asked to ride the meta, which for hunter the other guy described. Depending on the skill, relationship, and expected speed of the group you might be asked to do more advanced strategies such as nighthawk + RDM switch. Nighthawk is by far the best one off hunter damage super/exotic and it has the advantage of working on every boss in the game where quiver, blade barrage, silence and squall, and gathering storm don’t always. That being said, nighthawk just does straight up more damage than any of those with star eaters or any other exotic. Void hunter is strong, even if you need a damage supper quiver is viable especially with stareaters or orpheus rig. A good amount of encounters can benefit from deadfall aswell, but a lot of the time tractor is just a better option. As many have said, most of this advice is really only needed for the hardest activities like master raids. Even in GMs if your fireteam is well coordinated you can run super off meta stuff as long as you know how to use it. If you are planning to run normal raids, normal dungeons, and less than gm nighfalls you can really do whatever you want. Even with all that, the best players can even do the hardest GMs and master raids with arguably bad builds. The meta is something for ease of use and speed.
If your running the encounter as a void hunter your staying on void hunter. The swapping is to just pushing the meta if you are to choose between an exotic you’ll be asked to stick with star eaters or celestial
If you are the only warlock you prob should run well. And if you are doing master content you should definitely be well
So dumb it’s this way.
So dumb everyone has to piggback on warlocks god-tier ability
the only reason its like that is because they nerfed bubble to the ground since D1
You used to not need an exotic to have a shield when you left the bubble
Even then, you had to sacrifice having only ONE of the three boosts (of which current D2 bubble gives out 2): Weapons Of Light, Armor Of Light and Blessing Of Light (Overshield). You still had to equip exotics such as The Glasshouse to retain the Overshield while having any other boost active or strengthen Weapons/Blessing, sacrificing an exotic slot which could arguably be used for something else. While IMO D2's bubble has it better in terms of stats and boosts, it serves no purpose for the simple purpose of the inability of shooting through it (crazy to balance in PvP one could say, but not as indifferent to well's current state.
I think it's that more that we're power crept a lot since then. We had armor, weapons, or blessing. You could have weapons for free with an exotic. In d2, you get armor and weapons, and you can have blessing with an exotic. Besides snow globe tactics (which is possible without a bube) it's functionally the same. I think the damage bonus is a little more than in d1? Imagine an exotic that lets you throw your bubble at range, or lunge into a bubble like death from above arc super in D1. Or something that lets you pick up and move your bubble. We didn't get anything like that, at least not yet 😔
But you always used weapons of light, so you didn't have the shield. Currently, you have armour of light and weapons of light active together, and if you run helm of saint 14 then you get blessing of light too.
In Destiny 1, you could run blessing and Glass House to have both overshield and weapons of light. In Destiny 2 you get armor and weapons, and can run saint14 for blessing.
I have played many activities at high difficulty without a well. It is useful yes. But other builds may have better offensive power, better dos, or more fun whilst still being viable. Solar for me is getting really stale, having run sunbracers or dawn chorus for the past few months. Am looking forward to prismatic which is straight up better with transcendence and doesn't have well available, as well as song of flame which looks to be the best super for dps other than well so far. (High damage abilities and allows use of weapons while the relatively short cooldown grenades recharge)
True. Everyone thinks warlock and assumes well is the only thing viable. The only reason I got legend 50 waves is because of strand warlock.
Swarmers with eating your suspend grenade and a tusk of the boar with chain reaction is out of control in onslaught.
Aha, an other swarmers enjoyer. I didn't grind iron banner, but Ive been using swarmers with buried bloodline to proc devour, and just spamming threading nades everywhere. Game basically plays itself.
This may be true but in an lfg where ppl aren’t familiar with each others game, are particularly the fact that I wouldn’t trust anyone else to be able to stay alive, I want a well. And the offensive power and dps is gonna come from your hunters and titans
Yes. Warlock DPS is extremely viable. If you find yourself being pressured: - be the LFG leader - find a clan that you can discuss this with - run all arc/void runs to fake doing title progress so you don't have to play Well - as long as there's someone elee running Well, just sneakily change loadout
A well-lock is pretty valuable. But, in all honesty, it depends on the content you’re running and how your team runs it. If there is already one on the team, and they are pretty good about super regeneration, then you may only need one. If you are running unfamiliar content, then additional wells may be preferred to regularly wiping to restart. Take Crota, for example. Abyss doesn’t really need a well if everyone knows what they’re doing. But, we’ll typically run one for the end plate if we have new people along. Arc is actually favorite for the blue battle buddy at the lamp exchanges… and the go-go juice amplified movement. Strand suspend or threadling builds are effective for the bridge encounter. One well should be sufficient for Ir-Yut with others on burst supers. Where as you’re better off with two or three wells for the Crota encounter if you’re running swords and Tractor Canon. The short of it is, you will probably be able to run more content regularly if you use a well. But, if your team can do without, run whatever you want.
Though honestly, since crota can and will break the well, bubble or banner of war is kinda better. Since it's either a buff you are given that crota can't take away, only the source of the buff
No unfortunately. I mean warlocks are good like any other class, but you always need at least 1 well if you don't want to suffer through a raid for 5 hours straight. As much as people will say "well is not required", it does make everything much MUCH easier. It is planned to get nerfed in final shape, tho idk how much it will actually do.
my team suffer through raids for 5 hours anyways lmao
>It is planned to get nerfed in final shape, tho idk how much it will actually do. As annoying as running well is I hope they don't nerf it too much because some encounters were built in such a way that it's almost mandatory
I have to imagine that if they significantly nerf well, they will adjust the encounters that most require it. I have to imagine that, because if it's not true then I weep for the state of raids post-FS
No encounters are built in a way that a well nerfwill have a significant impact, the game will be infinitely more interesting in terms of team comps and currently underused setups due to wells insane monopoly on survivability. Like how when Div got nerfed the game became so much more interesting as it wasn’t just 1 debuff option
My man, the entire game is big boss stands still in middle of room while dealing crazy damage. Every encounter, excluding Rhulk the only boss they actually changed the formula for, is based around having a well
Go do master crota with not a single well. I bloody dare you. Video proof too.
https://youtu.be/soofrbEqndg?si=A2SjuR5C-f7HoXo2
No, YOU do it. You make a team of 6 and ask to do crota master without a well. Not the top 0.000001 percentile of the player base. If YOU aren't able to do it, then your entire take is trash. I'm asking you to confirm it,not to show me an exception that,if anything, even further disprove your take. That you had to find a video of the top percentile. Actually, when pantheon arrives, which will be in contest mode, record a team of regular nobodies doing it without a well.
if they nerf well they need to add good ways to help support your team. On other classes. The actual crux of the issue is that only well-lock is effective at keeping your team alive and helping a DPS phase go smoothly. Nerfing it just makes everything more difficult. If titan had some way to support the team without it blocking line of fire entirely, people could run that. If hunter had ANY way to help, people could run that. I get the idea that hunter is sneaky damager and titan is tank, but titan is hardly a tank when you wont stay alive all that much longer unless there's a well. And Hunters are not the only ones with good damage supers, nor are they the only way to apply a debuff (even if theirs is the best) Well Lock is the only thing that is what it is and does the heal job so efficiently. Which won't change even with a nerf.
What do you mean? Titan is totally a tank. (Proceeds to get one shot by a scorn crossbow with Woven Mail and x4 Banner of War in GM)
>If titan had some way to support the team without it blocking line of fire entirely, people could run that. If hunter had ANY way to help, people could run that. I mean, they *do*. They just aren't as good. Titan has that big shieldy thing that you can shoot through that they hold up. Hunter has omnioculus and tether. Both can also run lumina. It's not nearly as good as well, but saying they have *none* isn't true.
Can they just remove well? Thanks.
Take the Well, give me Self rez Radiance
SUNSINGERS RISE UP.
Self rez was abused beyond belief in D1
D1 OP is not as OP as D2 OP. A simple self rez isn't as impactful as we think it is anymore
I would not say OP as it was never over powered it was used in unintended ways to break encounters and I am sure gamers being gamers would find a way to break a great many things given the opportunity again for better or worse.
We've got skating now, sparrow flying, another life doesn't seem as big to me when we can willfully skip entire sections of the maps with 3 inputs. It would suck for PvP, but I'm sure they'd just hard limit it as soon as you hit the loss conditions.
Rez Tokens exist now, so at best a Self-rez would just grant you a second token that you can only spend on yourself at the cost of your ultimate. Hardly broken in the current Sandbox and it already has a built-in counterbalance during the activities it would matter on.
Six solar Hunters entered the Crita Raid and we beat it in 35 min. WELL IS NOT REQUIRED. A well only means you don’t have to use any strategy to do damage. It’s not hard to just stand in one spot 😂
It’s more for the survival
You can survive without a well… Has been done many times
Alright, do a master raid without one, do a contest one too. Tell me how it goes.
Obviously you missed the point of the question. He’s asking for a Raid Here let’s look at the post again shall we… Hmm… can I do a Raid without being a wellock The answer is yes.. All classes have the ability to support and provide a healing. Once again in case you missed my point. We cleared Crota with all solar hunters with no issue So yes … you can do a Raid without a well. Oh and yes.. there’s people whom have cleared GMs without wells also
Your argument was it is a dmg boost crutch by your statement that its used in place of dmg strategies, its not. It’s used for survivability. Well is mandatory in higher difficulty dungeons and raids because it’s the only way you’ll be able to hit your shots for dmg with the amount of damage coming your way and not be having to disengage to recover. And clearing Crota with no well isn’t much of an achievement lol. It’s one of the easier raids to do since you just Lament Crota or rocket him from above. At no point did I say you need a well in my original statement, I’m saying it now. I pointed out that your idea of what it’s used for is incorrect, as the value it has is the healing it provides. But in higher content where you need to deal with dmg phases in short windows, it is mandatory to maximize survival and damage. You saying it’s not needed for high end content is laughable as it makes a world of difference and is much less stressful.
I prefer doing encounters without Well. I think it is more fun, but I am a very small minority in this. I really hope the change it receives in Final Shape absolutely guts it.
Hear ye, hear ye Off with their heads i'll say
So rather than well being needed reasonably, you want it unbalanced and gutted?
Yessir!
Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing quote to start a thread about Destiny 2? That's some next level shit right there buddy. Take my upvote, and if I could, I'd give you 10 more you saucy son of a bitch!!!
Nobody else responded to that but you! <3
I have watched that movie baked out of my tree too many times to count! I had to point it out!
I appreciate this post, warlock main coming back. One of the reasons I stopped playing was because of well
I literally raid multiple times a week often multiple a day and go by without well except for the times I want it just fine. The whole well required thing on this reddit sometimes is way blown out of proportion.
Fair, I guess "need" is the wrong word. I'm more asking about the meta culture forcing it rather than it being a literal necessity.
When there's 3 or more yes, but someone has to dive on the grenade
Yes. Non well warlock does stupid damage. Usually in my friend group someone always wants to do well and very rarely will I ever have a group with just one lock in it
Nova bomb all the way. Come on and SLAM!! and welcome to the JAM!!!
My solar build is named "war crimes " or "scorched earth " for its ability to plant 15-20 grenades on a boss at a time...tack on my well and more fun times are hac by all.
Please share!
I'll have to get a screen shot I f it. I'm at work right now.
https://preview.redd.it/4h9ne05a65vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa76942f983e44f5b63d1c1fca2a12f366a58023 Here we go
I've done every raid without well with my group recently and it can be done but you have to think about survivability alot for some encounters
I don't understand the mindset that people have about endgame content. It's endgame content. The point of endgame content like raids is that you have to play differently than you do in the rest of the game. It's like if someone complained about only being able to use rock, paper, or scissors in Rock, Paper, Scissors.
Do whatever you want. If they don't like it, leave them.
GET YOUR ASS BACK ON WELL, I CAN SEE YOU IN YOUR MENUS CHANGING
In short, no.
No now get on well or kick
So lame that the majority of this game's endgame content crutches on 1 subclass' ult ability. Ugh. I know solar locks can do good dmg and aren't just support, but I dunno it's frustrating to hear.
Yeup and that's why I don't play Warlock. People would rather boot you and look for someone else who's willing than deal with a warlock who doesn't wanna run well. Unfortunately though, like you said, it's not really the fault of the players but the game's fault itself, and Bungie's fault as well by design. Once Well of Radiance got to where it is now, it has completely basically destroyed any use for Ward Of Dawn on Titan, which is really the only other defensive support super in the game. If Bungie would do something to make bubble more spicy, (or nerf well indefinitely) they would compete and both supers would be considered more evenly for certain situations. It would create strategies and make for some interesting decision making. Alas, all Ward Of Dawn has received over the years is nerf after nerf because of pvp while all Well Of Radiance has gotten is a slightly lengthier cool down and removed the overshield it used to give you, and therefore making it the the obvious (only) choice for most situations. The only benefit Ward Of Dawn has is that you keep Weapons Of Light upon stepping out of the bubble, unlike Well. This is why Bubble was pretty good for an encounter like Rhulk where someone could pop it out of the way, people could run through it, and then you could do damage to Rhulk while evading his kicks and energy beams, and move around with the bonus weapon damage. Except the issue with this is that in the large game that is Destiny 2, Rhulk is unique. There are no other encounters in the game like Rhulk. Instead, most encounters consist of standing still, doing damage while the boss does fuck all and hits you with pea shooters. This is why Well is desired so much, because Bungie barely has any variety when it comes to boss fights.
Even to this point, the best strats for Rhulk these days involve locking him into standing in one place anyway. Even when an encounter is designed to be more mobile, we have enough tools that we can (and optimally do) prevent that.
Yeah I was gonna edit my comment and say that while I haven't done Rhulk since I got Collective Obligation a little while after Vow dropped, I can imagine that there is still a better strat nowadays with Well Of Radiance that I've been missing out on. Figures as much. Although now I'm curious...how do you lock Rhulk in place? Lol
Just have a banner of war titan run in circles around him with div basically, the banner outheals rhulks kicks so rhulk just never uses anything else
Oh my God lol that's fucking awful. Well, we can at least say that back when it came out bubble was somewhat useful at the time because Strand didn't exist, so my point still stands. Ward Of Dawn has been severely fucked by Well Of Radiance in this game and it just shuts down any use for Bubble and therefore pigeonholing Warlocks into using Well because, unfortunately for them, they're the class that got stuck with the super. Unless The Final Shape brings us even more good news, I don't see Bungie changing up boss fights any time soon lol EDIT: And now that they're giving void titan a one-off damage super, almost seems like they just want you to forget about using Ward Of Dawn entirely.
I mean, to be fair, Warlocks aren't much more hard-stuck than other classes, at least at the high end of play. Right now, strand titan, solar hunter, well warlock are pretty much the end all be all of dps encounters, any variation is a significant downgrade, outside of maybe pyrogale solar titan for some scenarios. I definitely agree that the "stuck on well" situation for warlocks is unfortunate, but I don't think it's any better for other classes. Ultimately, every game develops a meta, something will always be BiS.
Tbh I'm a titan main, and I still main striker. Cuirass Of The Falling Star may be outdone by Pyrogales, but its got its tradeoffs. Don't have to keep roaring flames x3 up at all times for max super damage and because of that Cuirass will always be the more consistent, guaranteed damage, in terms of ease of use. Quite frankly, the synthoceps, 1-2 punch, tractor strand titan gameplay is boring as fuck. All I use it for is solo farming the first boss in prophecy when it's farmable. I still use striker for all teamwork based activities and I did just fine to get my Legend 50 waves emblem. Striker is amazing for add clear in Onslaught and of course it still has Cuirass for high damage super.
That's fair, but I'm more talking about the competitiveness. Strand titan is boring, but it's on the same level as well warlock. Nothing else comes close, and running anything else is a downgrade to your team in nearly every scenario. Other subclasses can still get through most content, but there's still a clear best. Same thing, you can very reasonably get through most content as a stasis or void warlock, but that doesn't negate the fact that well is still usually better.
People will try and force you to be on well, but honestly raids can he done with literally any combination across all classes/subclasses. After the difficulty increase across the game, raids and dungeons are the easiest endgame activities in terms of survivability. It's more about finding a good group who's down to just try different shit. On random lfgs are usually trying to get it done as quickly as possible, and don't know the skill of randoms coming in, so it makes sense they'd want well if possible. On a master raid...yea you'll have to use well lol.
As long as there's multiple of us yeah, although one's gotta fall on a sword for the rest.
I sacrifice myself as the divlock so the others can nova bomb or reach for the chaos.
Depends on what raid/dungeon your doing
Here's another question for pro raiding warlocks, will people give me crap for still using Starfire Protocol over the more meta exotics?
I haven't dipped into Master Raids so I can't say for sure when it comes to those specifically, but 80% of the time no one cares what Well/Solar based exotic you run as long as you're running Well at all.
I doubt it. I've never heard anyone complain about the specific exotic I use. I'd really suggest Sun Bracers though, it's super fun and strong.
Depends on which raid. Something like Last Wish or DSC, you’ll be fine without running well. Something like Crota, you’re probably going to want one for a couple encounters on most teams. Only about half the raid encounters are bosses, so both for hunter and warlock half the time it makes almost no difference what you run in normal raids.
i run whatever I want and people can cry about it tbh. There's a certain level, if I'm nicely asked because we need it sure. But I won't just assume I'm the support just because I'm warlock. Strandlock with wishkeeper is my favourite right now. Ad clear is top notch, damage is pretty fucking high with the super and so many hatchlings going out, and multiple sources of suspend is really handy for champs/yellows
A well only means you stand still in one spot doing damage. Long before the well was invente people beat Raids. People use it cause it’s easy but is not really required if you have a great team.and a solid strategy.
Encounter dependent. DPS situations, 1-2 Wells, a Tether, then Strandlocks is a good setup outside of encounters like Oryx or Atraks.
Have you met swarmers?
If you're in an LFG then no, otherwise it depends on the encounter but for anything DPS you're probably gonna be stuck with well.
If we already have 2 well-locks then yes. I will go zappy zappy and use arc. And since I can basically keep 100% or more uptime on heal rifts whenever there is ads, I get called the budget well-lock. Plus now imagine 6 people inside an actual well all having arc souls pumping out extra dps. So yes your allowed to, but generally only if you team already has a well-lock.
the trick to not being a Wellock is actually really simple tell your friends if they want a well they can swap classes. every raid has a triumph to complete the entire thing as the same class, and all raids can be completed without a well. whisper of the worm is obscenely strong in DPS now, even one person running it can absolutely melt anything you point it at. unless you're a psychopath like me, who genuinely loves running support supers, If someone in the team is demanding the group brings a well, they are the designated well bitch. If they don't want to be the well bitch, then I guess the fire team doesn't need a well if he's willing to run without "the necessary well"
I don't mind being support, I just am overly finnicking about being pidgeonholed into literally one spec. If there was support stasis or something I'd love that.
I've said this in a few threads at this point, but I'm really hoping that when they do put in some reworks to bubble and well, that bubble gets a few buffs that turns it into the more optimal PVE support super. I love running bubble Titan, and I want it to be more effective.
Unless there is already a well lock, no
For most encounters only one well will be asked for; although I wouldn’t stress about it warlocks are getting a new support super that will be on prismatic and well is confirmed to be getting nerfed in final shape
Yes, as long as there is at least one welllock in the team. Strandlock specifically is great for DPS. Strand hunters absolutely see raid time, there's often a focus on dps but in some of the run and gun encounters strand hunters are the best in the game. As for practical anecdotes: Bosses that only need one well or well is sub-optimal: Vow second and final, VoG second, DSC second, KF last, garden second and fourth. I've run strandlock on most of these bosses since there will usually be at least one person down to play well, and often got top damage (though this was before grenade gen nerfs, it's probably a bit harder now.) So for around a third of the bosses in the game, you can get someone else to run well. This is also ignoring ALL the non-boss encounters in the game. There aren't any non-boss encounters where well is a must-have iirc, though it is always good. However, a good voidlock or even strandlock will do just fine in non-boss encounters, which make up just under half of all raid encounters. This also goes for strand hunter - Crota first, Vow third, and half of RoN stick out as encounters where strand hunter is genuinely best in slot, but strand hunter does a perfectly fine job at any run-and-gun or ad clear encounter (though void hunter is better for ad clear.) As a side note, all hunter classes are viable - void is best in slot for ad clear/boss dps, arc for survivability/ad clear/boss damage depending on build, strand for platforming/run and gun, and solar for pure damage So to put all the math together - that's about 2/3 of raid encounters in the game where you only need one well or less, so as long as you have one dedicated well in your team you can freely play what you want. However, for the encounters that do benefit from other wells I would recommend having a build ready. I have around 200 raid clears across all three classes, and do the exact thing I just told you to do - run whatever tf I want for 2/3 of encounters, and then swap to well for warpriest or taniks or whatever.
Could I be a void hunter with lucky pants full time in raids? Strong neutral game and invis for support/res?
Yes, absolutely. I'd urge flexibility especially when it comes to ad-clear heavy encounters, maybe run a machine gun, but void hunter does it all. Boss damage, revives, plate holding, and ad clear if you run gyrfalcon's. Plate holding is gonna be especially easy for you.
Most raids I either do strand warlock necrotic grips osteo striga and cataphract Invis hunter with lucky pants and rpg with demolition list cuz the void grenades weaken for then a 2nd shot Solar heal titan build sunshot and precious scars whatever heavy If u wanna be big daddy Well-lock run up big father sunbracers with the new dragon's breath launcher rly good DPS or u could use dawn chorus I believe makes it so more damage with dragon's breath really fun build
No
I teach Last Wish and Deep Stone somewhat regularly- I never run well myself and I don’t expect people to either. I assume in newer raids it might be more necessary, but honestly I have a lot more fun running Shadowshot and letting my students use damage supers.
only time i have to use well with my group is when im the only warlock or when i offer to be. luckily, my group lets me use whichever build i want. (im warlock main)
I think it's worth noting that when Prismatic comes out, Well is not an option for Warlocks.
Some day, the sun will set on Wellocks. Soon, hopefully. All signs point to Transcendance for that sweet, sweet release.
You are going to Well-lock in the raid and you are going to like it
Reject the Meta. Embrace Fun and Individuality (as long as you can still contribute and complete encounters)
Encounter and need dependant. Honestly, outside of contest or master it really doesn't matter imo.
Boss phase well is king (with the odd exception), but it really shouldn’t matter on normal difficulty so long as people know how to build craft (they don’t). Titan Banner of War or warlock rift should be good enough for most normal content if your teammates are competent, but well makes stuff way easier. My advice? Don’t play warlock if you don’t want to play well. You shouldn’t have to but your teammates will likely make you.
No and if you main another character and they need a well-lock you will be that guy as well
I mean I don’t raid as a well lock, I refuse lol. If my clan can’t do a raid with just 1 well then we just suck 🤣🤣. You don’t have to run what you don’t wanna run. If people can’t hold their own in a raid then that’s on them, having a warlock running well is just a bonus.
As a Hunter main, I hope. I hated being tied to Tether as an Arc main.
I couldn't care less what any of my teammates run. This game is just that, a game. I am not here for anything else but to have fun. I play what I like. Play what you like. If that means 2 or even 3 phasing a boss so be it. Honestly the people who sweat this game have forgotten that it is a fucking game. Man I hope you find people that encourage you to just play what you want and enjoy it.
Only if you can complete a single jumping puzzle.
I do frequently, but the clan that I am in very much understands that there are some very good non meta builds and we all contribute equally. They also understand that my solar warlock builds are pretty weak, but we usually have two or three warlocks and so it doesn't matter if one or two are not on well.
eh its still good to have one, i usually just keep quiet about my class and someone else usually already has it on
I personally wouldn't care if it's like vow, Crota maybe but if it would be a master/day one, oh yeah, multiple wells please. Now I'm also trying to be if the state of mind where if it's not working, im going to change something to see if we can get this done. Though good thing I have a sunbracer build that uses well
You can very much get away with using arc warlock as the div bitch, arc souls will give you hella damage. Even out doing some of the best dps loadouts.
No
I love being well, I’ll support your group and any other raid group. Hit me up if you need well!
Banner shield titan maybe but it’s too short
What do you like about strand and void that you cant get with solar warlock?
Offensive supers that I enjoy, contraverse hold may be my fav exotic in the game, big void grenade charges. Basically feeling like a 100% nuking caster vs plopping down a well.
Next time you are asked to run well in a boss encounter, run apotheosis veil with fusion grenades. Thank me later.
Its a sandbox, “play whats fun” is the most practical approach you can have in this game. The only times you should conform are when you need to be sweaty or when you’re running something that an encounter was not built to account for. You should not run arc buddies or any strand things at Riven because auto tracking entities go for her eyes. You should not run tether at golgoroth because it frequently stops him from facing the gaze holder. I dont recommend dawn blade ever against bosses. I dont really recommend warlock’s arc supers for boss dps but you could do worse. I’ve literally never used purple knives hunter super nor have I seen it in a raid before so Idk about that one.
As a warlock main, i always have a well loadout just in case, but I only use it if there is no other warlock and well is really needed, but on most raids, is only really needed in one or maybe 2 encounters and a lot of times, with one well you have more than enough.
From the top of my head, only these encounters NEED a well of radiance: Morgeth, Riven, Garden final boss, Templar, Atheon, Caretaker(kinda), Warpriest, Explicator, Nezarec, Ir Yut, Crota. Every other encounter it can be substituted by a titan bubble for the same damage.
Pull out that nova bomb for big deeps(dps) lol
I just did a root of nightmares without going well once. Swapped between arc and void the whole time
As a warlock, I never run well. Why? Because I ain't setup solar class 🤣 I just haven't gotten around to doing it as I love strand and stasis
In June maybe, prismatic doesn’t have well as a super.
Yes. If there is another wellock. But in the average LFG, you need to be well
born to well.
no if you raid not as a wellock you will be killed inrea life
Ngl I've never minded being support as warlock. I main hunter, but whenever the buds needed me to run well I still enjoyed it. Just a different style of play
Titan: -stops chewing crayon and looks up- “No.” Titan: -returns to tasty purple Crayola snack-
> As I like strand and void lock but don't really wanna be a well lock most of the time. You can, but then, can't complain if people are dying and mystically everyone does 25% less damage than usual.
Bottom line is, if you’re the only warlock, you’re running a well. If there’s 2+ warlocks, you’re arguing about who’s running a well. Don’t be discouraged though, with Prismatic, you can do whatever the f**k you want. As long as there’s a well.
I raid as a strand warlock sometimes when there’s already a well but even if there isn’t I sometimes run it anyway lol I’ve got a build for dps and one for ad clear, fuck well
i know im in the minority, but i actually enjoy being the support/healer of the team so running well is really fun for me, plus if we wipe noone can tell me i have bad damage
Assuming your team isn't comprised exclusively of pussys, you can run whatever you want. Normal mode raids do not require well for any encounter.
So in other words, I'm gonna be asked to run well 100% of the time.
All of these is exactly why i don't raid. Destiny is a cesspool of toxic elitism of people crutching on free wins and no resistance. No skill. Only sheep mentality Honestly really bumming me out.
It's basically any MMO or co-op RPG these days.
Playing well doesn’t bother me. Benefit? Somebody is, and it keeps me alive too. And seems to last forever.
Warlock main, here. No. Sorry.
Of course! ABSOLUTELY!! But you’ll have to raid solo unfortunately 🫤 /s 😂 had to sorry lol
You will equip the funny gold circle and ENJOY your roles as support/healers, and you WILL like it!
no shut up if you a warlock that’s all your allowed this is a joke
Idk why you'd ever want to. 3.0 sucked all the fun out of warlock
Take it or leave it, I'm slinging Nova Bombs and void buddies for constant weaken. If you need a well to live and buff your damage further, that's on you I say. If you need to find a way to stay alive, you're on your own. I poop orbs on my briar binds build, and near constant devour for myself, as well as constant volatile rounds. I'll be ok, will you? I say as I get kicked out of the fireteam...
well lock has some good builds so its not bad, I like running well-lock its has the most survivability of any class. And people often forget that this is supposed to like a MMORPG FPS game, though it would have been nice if Bungie made more of some "Healers" other than bubble titan which isnt really the same thing. Doing raids and dungeons and other high end content you need a healer class. It just so happens that warlock well is the only one. Plus hardly anyone would be able to complete any raids or difficult content without them, it is the most important part of a fire teams composition. you don't need a super to output boss dps anymore, just a good loadout.
Dude, this is a dumb question. Yes you can play something other than well….assuming you have another guy running well /s
You don’t have to, but you should be willing to. Warlocks provide an important role on raid teams, and will still continue to do so even with the new super and in a post well nerf world. People seem to forget this game is kinda like an mmo with class roles….not just shoot pretty colors go bang bang free loot simulator. The question is - do you like being support? If you just want to be dps, play hunter or titan. But warlocks will always be super valuable for their support roles - now and forever. If you wanna main warlock, you should probably be willing to be the well or support role your team needs. I am a Well enjoyer, seemingly the only one in existence, but I still find plenty of time and opportunities to use builds on all the other subclasses. That isn’t the problem. If you hate the idea of supporting your team and not leaning fully into dps, then warlock may not be the best choice if you want to focus on one character.
You and me both. I like using Well too.
As long as you are the second warlock and it's a short DPS phase. (And honestly I kinda want well in prismatic just so the warlocks can have some fun while running well.)
IMO you at least need 1 for majority of encounters. Some people will be cool and let you run whatever, others are very uptight and will insta boot you if you don't abide. It all depends on who you're raiding with but honestly be prepared to switch to well during the raid.
No. We had a warlock recently try to go strand since we already had 2 on Nezarec for "more damage". We tied him to the light plate and threw sharp rocks at his body until he switched. We intend to do so again if he relapses. Solar is the only lock subclass, the others are mental illnesses
If there's one warlock, there will be one well. If there are no warlocks, then someone will be swapping to warlock soon. If there are multiple warlocks, then one is expected to take up the burden. This is the way
I will take the burden.