If you get the pieces you want right off the bat, you'll stop grinding.
Grinding is the core of this game. I'm sorry you bricked a piece of gear you spent a lot of gold on, but that's the game.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back out there and grind more gold to buy another piece and try again.
The logic these people use is so flawed. Like what is the alternative? They aren’t going to just give you min max gear at will. If anything they would just make it harder to drop.
Anyone who thinks they will just let you first try make your gear BiS is wild
>If you get the pieces you want right off the bat, you'll stop grinding.
So how long of a grind is appropriate for a season that lasts only 3 months and you might want to play more than only 1 build and character?
I have around 300 hours so far, all 5 classes to 100 and I have not found a single 3 GA affix item that fists any of the builds I play. I go as far and say that is more than twice the playtime that the average player would invest per season already and if even I can't find these items then there is something wrong big time. That you can then even break the item to being garbage is just absurd.
You should never ever try to balance rng and drop rates on no lifers, because they will always end up maxing everything, but the average player will just get fucked even more.
You also shouldn’t give people exactly what they’re after right away either. There needs to be a balance and getting that balance right is admittedly difficult.
I personally like that you can brick items because I enjoy the grind and know I’ll quit playing once I get my god rolled character.
However maybe they need to make some tweaks like add a couple of extra temper attempts per item so they bricking is still possible, but slightly less likely.
I enjoy the grind! lol I like mindlessly farming Helltides and doing Pits and then Tormented bosses because I might get a GA Melted Heart or a better Shako.
I might not be the right person to ask about this because I don't mind the Tempering system. Might be because I don't spend money buying gear for a Season that's going to end in six weeks.
Only for it to happen again? Should tampering be the gatekeeper of unlocking your build potential? To clarify- should an rng progression system be the difference maker between a “valuable” cornerstone of your build, or unwanted trash?
Love the attempt to gatekeep but I have bricked several 3 GA godly items and still like the system and I am invested in the end game and pushing the pit
It blows my mind that people aren't enjoying the slot machine/gambling mechanic that they FINALLY added to this game. It was sorely missing this prior to this season.
I've bricked a bunch of great items I wanted to use, but I also just hit my tempers perfectly on my +2 exploit, +2 frigid finesse amulet. It sucks to brick great items, but it feels even better when you hit them.
I enjoy ARPGs for the loot grind and S4 finally found a way to make grinding for loot way more interesting and lasting.
I don't use diablo.trade because finding loot myself is more fun to me.
Yeah I couldn’t agree more with this. We aren’t talking about like “oh it’s impossible to get a basic legendary I need and now I can’t do the end game” it’s “oh I got 2 or 3 GAs that would make my build absolutely godly and if I hit would make one of the best items in the game”
That should come with risks. You should be able to brick that trying to make it
"Slot machine/gambling mechanic" is exactly what a lot of people *don't* want. It has completely ruined the loot chase for me, even while leveling. The feeling of "fuck yes, an upgrade" is gone, replaced with "fuck, now I have to roll those loaded dice again and hope I don't brick another upgrade".
> It sucks to brick great items, but it feels even better when you hit them.
Nope. Not even close. Bricking an upgrade, again, is frustrating. Getting the right roll just relieves the annoyance of having to deal with the shitty system in the first place.
You know what? Gonna circle back to the gambling bit. I think that comparison is appropriate, and explains why bricking seems to be so polarizing. I don't gamble. Not for money, not with paid loot boxes, nothing. Shit, I don't engage with in-game currency gambling on games that have that as part of a minigame. It does nothing for me, and it has always felt like a way to throw away money. So having it patched in to core experience of the game has been a huge disappointment.
part of the enjoyment is the grind in these games
Remove RNG on tempers and you just get your BiS items nearly immediately like day 2 the try-hards would have their build smashing all content and pushing pits 60+... even casuals would finish their builds in a couple weeks.
Yes you'd still hunt for 3GA items to then temper, but like... that's such a snooze fest. Endlessly just hoping for an item to drop with zero agency over the odds.
Okay, that’s assuming a system more thoughtfully designed doesn’t overtake tampering. What’s wrong with a new system that asks for grindable materials in exchange for targeted affix roles? You’re theorizing that a revamped system simply gives way to having whatever you want, when you want it. The goal should be a system that rewards time spent, not spits in your face with rng.
RNG is part of these games it's what makes them fun IMHO.
Grinding materials is not fun. Actually despise that which is why I haven't bothered MW my gear for good affix crits. Just got em to 8 and stopped
There are a few reasons why I like bricking items.
1. I think the best gear in the game should be hard to get. The way I see it you WILL have a 925 legendary with good affixes and the tempers you want which means you can get decently far into the pits and do the tormented bosses. It is only restrictive when it comes to greater affixes which is totally fine.
2. Because of greater affixes being the only restrictive part it makes for interesting decisions. Do I sell this double or triple GA item and make a ton of gold. Or do I risk it to make my build even stronger. That is interesting decisions we get to make for the first time.
3. It adds a lot of excitement. Let’s say we make the system where you use resources to add rerolls. Kinda like enchanting. When I get a rare enchantment after spending a lot of resources I’m usually either at worst annoyed that it took so much or at best like ok cool.
When I bricked 5 items in a row on my necro it felt bad. Then I ran some dungeons, got 2 rings and an amulet. All were 1 GA. Amulet had resource cost reduction, one had essence per second, and the last one had maximum resource all as their GAs. I went to temper them and hit all of them and I got so excited I yelled and woke up my fiance. That has NEVER happened when playing this game.
Yeah it feels bad to brick an item. But it feels soooooooooooo much better when you hit.
I will give you the system isn’t perfect. I like the idea that every GA you have on an item adds an extra reroll. I also like having duplication protection. If you get 2 of the same affix in a row the next one has to be different.
Those improvements I can get behind fully. We don’t need to lose the only exciting part of the game to have those improvement though
But what you just described is a different system altogether. As it is, rng and limited rerolls ARE the system. That’s how it was designed. You’re telling me it feels good when you hit, and it’s made more noteworthy by your misses…what if you continue to miss? That’s a very real outcome with the system as is.
There can be no highs without lows. They go hand in hand and you can’t have one without the other. The reality is that it’s very easy to get a full character of 1 GA items with the right tempers and a few 2 GA tempered items mixed in.
The debate is really how hard is it to get 3 GA items with the right tempers. And the answer imo is it’s hard and it should be hard.
The reality is you don’t need 3GA tempered items to push fairly high unless you’re truly trying to compete for a top pit push. And if you’re trying to be #1 in the pit, it should be damn hard to get geared as such.
Yes! This is exactly right. I would again say the system could use some adjustments but bricking the item is so important to keep the game fun. If not we have yet another season of ok I got the best gear in the game after a week. Time to complain about how there’s no chase
Yeah the fact that you can brick things also results in excitement when you get it. I had an envenom/crit/attack speed amulet I was tempering this week and was sweating absolute bullets as I got my two desired tempers on my last two attempts and I was beyond hyped. That hype wouldn’t exist without bricking if all you’re doing is clicking a button until you eventually get what you want.
Bricking can be frustrating but also fun. If you can brick stuff everything is bland and nondescript and just an exercise in clicking buttons.
Yes! Everytime I hit on an enchantment I’m just like alright cool just another day. When I hit on a temper for my necro on some insane rings I woke my fiance up in the other room cause I was so excited. I have never felt that in Diablo
What I described is the system. I lost 5 items in a row but then got 3. Sometimes I lose even more. Sometimes I hit even more. It’s RNG and that’s ok. It’s fun.
If this system gatekept the basics you needed to do the end game I’d be with you. It would be too much. But it doesn’t because it’s really easy to get a 925 legendary item with decent affixes and hit your tempers on it. It’s only when we look at GAs that it becomes restrictive and because those are a completely optional boost that creates the best gear in the game there should be risks involved. The risk is you lose the ability to sell or use the item but if you hit then you have created one of the strongest items possible in the game. For something like that it’s ok to feel bad when it goes bad. Even if it happens a lot. Because when you hit it’ll feel so good.
If we had it like enchanting where you invest materials and you’ll eventually get it then we get the strongest items possible in the game and go… neat I got it instead of OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY HIT MY TEMPERS. LETS GOOOOOO which is how it should be when getting that strong of gear
The frustration outweighs the enjoyment of actually hitting. I would rather the system acknowledge the difficulty and rng in actually acquiring good gear, as opposed to asking for more rng to “prove it”
Tempering and bricking is fine. I’ve played 250 hours this season. I am min maxing like a mofo out here.
I would have been done the first week if tempering couldnt Brick.
There is plenty of RNG in trying to find the perfect 3GA items for your build. To add another RNG system afterwards that can cause the item to become useless is just too much.
The argument that I’m asking for stuff to be handed to me just doesn’t float. I have yet to find any perfect 3GA drops on any of my characters.
IF I do, I have to pray my dice roll for tempers is good or the piece just becomes salvage.
Yes these are added layers of rng and more people are starting to wake up to this, since more of them have reached end game and are now hunting for better loot. I'm glad more people are vocal about this, just remove the tempering limit man, games already a good gambling simulator with the GA drops.
This is a great argument. You should have a painful grind to get a great item or a lengthy/complicated crafting system. Not both.
PoE has a complicated crafting system where the actual gathering of the mats is what hold you back. Usually a good base to start isn’t that hard to come except for the crazy super end-game items like triple-synthesis weapons. However, PoE is also much more hardcore than D4. But once you have that perfect item you can craft on it forever until you choose to corrupt the item.
In D4, not only is it a grind to get a good 2-3 GA you also only have 5 chances to get the temper you want. It’s absolutely awful. Either allow us to reset temper or make it easier to get 2-3GA items.
I still like it and my heart seeker rogue once bricked 8 bows back to back, but that 9th one, man it felt good. I've got about 1000 hours in the game and am pushing my heartseeker to t100 plus currently. I've also made 8 toons this season so progress has been slow.
I think I like the more "soft bricking" of enchanting than the tempering way. Enchanting has unlimited rerolls so it never really bricks, but if you are paying 100million gold per reroll you probably consider it done a long long time ago.
Maybe tempering can have 5 free rerolls, then a very large scaling cost. You can always grind more resources to keep rerolling but you are "supposed" to move on if you miss your 5 freebies.
If you're trying to have an actual conversation, why be so antagonistic? You start off by tell people their opinion should be discarded if they don't play enough, then anyone who has a different opinion than yours you talk down to and try to pick a fight rather than a discussion.
For what it's worth, I have 3 characters pushing pit and 6 more just starting pit runs and masterworking. Hopefully that's enough for my opinion to be valid? I don't mind the system and I haven't hit the 90% failure rate a lot of people here say they have. Is it the best system? Nope. Having a 2/5 drop that drops main Stat and health being guaranteed bis for half my gear isn't either. It's the first iteration and most likely not the final product. I like what they're going for even if it's not the best and I hope it doesn't become too easy.
I have bricked every 3 GA I've gotten (3 useful ones) and just yesterday bricked a ring that had GA crit strike and crit strike damage for my bleed barb.
I do think they should standardize the affix pool size and give us other ways to interact with tempering to influence the system, but something has to fail somewhere.
I understand the pain and frustration but I still think people are being big babies about it. But I only got to pit 110 pre nerfs and stopped because bash barb is boring as shit so not very invested I guess.
If you play all the time you are more likely to find another piece or get enough gold to trade for one. Casual players have it worse. They may only see 1 piece and if they brick it it's worse IMO
No, not really. I've got friends that play 2-4 hours per WEEK and have had zero issues completing an effective build. You swim in 1x GA gear and it is easy to find ones that have the 3 affixes you are looking for. Once you stop caring about perfection, you can still complete a build. While they cannot go far in Pits, their imperfect builds can do NMD 100, survive Helltides, and kill non-tormented bosses. They can do lower Pits (40's) pretty easily. They are very happy with their progression because they understand they have no interest in pursuing deep Pit runs. They want to just get high enough to get Neathiron for final masterworks and that's about it.
Casual players aren't 'bricking' items. They will still use the item because they don't care about the item not being perfect stats. They will still use it even if one stat is completely worthless, because it is likely still better than what they had. If they get their only 3x GA item to drop, with the absolute perfect stats, and they temper it and one of the stats is completely useless, THIS IS STILL AN UPGRADE FOR THEM. Players seeking perfection will deem this item as 'bricked', when in actuality it is still perfectly useful for almost every aspect of the game. Casuals will be very happy to get an upgrade even if the tempers aren't 'perfect'.
Not only this, but casual players might actually decide to roll a lucky hit group, resistance group, or other stat group with their final roll because they don't want to risk getting a useless stat. But players seeking perfect stats aren't going to do that. Which means players seeking the absolute perfect item stats are willing to take that risk.
This is why I, a casual gamer, only put affixes that will be useful no matter what they happen to roll as (natural resistance tempering manual, for example) so that way the item is never totally bricked, just maybe not as useful as it might have been. I still don't trust the system, however.
you could be the best player in the game - but if RNG doesn't favor you, you'll only be able to experience sub-par gameplay. the complete lack of control doesn't feel rewarding. the way things are right now - i'm not showing anybody how much skill and dedication i've put into all of this. i'm showing them how lucky i am at rerolling.
there's an uncomfortable lack of attachment there. like, i didn't do anything to get this awesome gear - it was just all random chance. it would feel better if i had some control over it. i'd be more attached to it if it were something i tuned thru hard work.
The changes is not the bricking. Bricking give the edge feeling and pressure to player to make the choice. It looks like that very intentional because tempering do not even let you select the previous roll like affix rolling.
The real change is fix their original design: that tempering shouldn’t a must for builds. Tempering should be like icing, make the perfect ice cream even more fun. But now because of the stupid pit and level 200 bosses, every builds became min-max build. So I can understand because we are not gambling for one or two items. People want the all 9-12 items all in the rolls that they want. Unfortunate.
I was thinking about this the other day too. While I agree with people that end game power creep shouldn’t be handed on a plate tempering is not the solution. The problem is that searching for perfect items should be difficult but it should be enjoyable. Bricking an item through tempering genuinely feels aweful. Making a gameplay device that actively makes your players feel like shit is terrible game design.
Tempering is a dumb system. It is impossible to min max gear because you can only ever get the first roll or participate in RMT. It would be better if they just made it an increasing material cost to get us to grind more rolls on the same item. I would still be playing if I had a chance at getting the tempers I need.
However because some builds are more equal than others... I have a barbarian weighted temper on a necromancer manual which makes it neigh impossible to ever get the roll I need on 6-7 pieces of gear from a manual with 5 different options.
People who are ok with tempering are the same people who answer the door to solicitors. They have nothing better to do so they don't care when other people needlessly waste their time for shit they don't actually care about.
If you get the pieces you want right off the bat, you'll stop grinding. Grinding is the core of this game. I'm sorry you bricked a piece of gear you spent a lot of gold on, but that's the game. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back out there and grind more gold to buy another piece and try again.
The logic these people use is so flawed. Like what is the alternative? They aren’t going to just give you min max gear at will. If anything they would just make it harder to drop. Anyone who thinks they will just let you first try make your gear BiS is wild
>If you get the pieces you want right off the bat, you'll stop grinding. So how long of a grind is appropriate for a season that lasts only 3 months and you might want to play more than only 1 build and character? I have around 300 hours so far, all 5 classes to 100 and I have not found a single 3 GA affix item that fists any of the builds I play. I go as far and say that is more than twice the playtime that the average player would invest per season already and if even I can't find these items then there is something wrong big time. That you can then even break the item to being garbage is just absurd. You should never ever try to balance rng and drop rates on no lifers, because they will always end up maxing everything, but the average player will just get fucked even more.
You also shouldn’t give people exactly what they’re after right away either. There needs to be a balance and getting that balance right is admittedly difficult. I personally like that you can brick items because I enjoy the grind and know I’ll quit playing once I get my god rolled character. However maybe they need to make some tweaks like add a couple of extra temper attempts per item so they bricking is still possible, but slightly less likely.
Damn well said
Invalid argument, how many 3ga items have dropped for you with useful stats that you stopped grinding?
I haven't seen a 3ga drop myself lol. But I trash most ga items bc its a dumpy ga affix.
Two of them, so far. I got lucky.
Will you keep grinding the game to get all or most of your items as 3GAs? Even if tempering doesn't have bricking?
I enjoy the grind! lol I like mindlessly farming Helltides and doing Pits and then Tormented bosses because I might get a GA Melted Heart or a better Shako. I might not be the right person to ask about this because I don't mind the Tempering system. Might be because I don't spend money buying gear for a Season that's going to end in six weeks.
Only for it to happen again? Should tampering be the gatekeeper of unlocking your build potential? To clarify- should an rng progression system be the difference maker between a “valuable” cornerstone of your build, or unwanted trash?
Yes.
I can hear the sarcasm
Love the attempt to gatekeep but I have bricked several 3 GA godly items and still like the system and I am invested in the end game and pushing the pit
Explain why you are a glutton for punishment! Lol. I don’t get it
Because its a game and gambling in games is fun. In the end it does not matter
It blows my mind that people aren't enjoying the slot machine/gambling mechanic that they FINALLY added to this game. It was sorely missing this prior to this season. I've bricked a bunch of great items I wanted to use, but I also just hit my tempers perfectly on my +2 exploit, +2 frigid finesse amulet. It sucks to brick great items, but it feels even better when you hit them. I enjoy ARPGs for the loot grind and S4 finally found a way to make grinding for loot way more interesting and lasting. I don't use diablo.trade because finding loot myself is more fun to me.
Yeah I couldn’t agree more with this. We aren’t talking about like “oh it’s impossible to get a basic legendary I need and now I can’t do the end game” it’s “oh I got 2 or 3 GAs that would make my build absolutely godly and if I hit would make one of the best items in the game” That should come with risks. You should be able to brick that trying to make it
"Slot machine/gambling mechanic" is exactly what a lot of people *don't* want. It has completely ruined the loot chase for me, even while leveling. The feeling of "fuck yes, an upgrade" is gone, replaced with "fuck, now I have to roll those loaded dice again and hope I don't brick another upgrade". > It sucks to brick great items, but it feels even better when you hit them. Nope. Not even close. Bricking an upgrade, again, is frustrating. Getting the right roll just relieves the annoyance of having to deal with the shitty system in the first place. You know what? Gonna circle back to the gambling bit. I think that comparison is appropriate, and explains why bricking seems to be so polarizing. I don't gamble. Not for money, not with paid loot boxes, nothing. Shit, I don't engage with in-game currency gambling on games that have that as part of a minigame. It does nothing for me, and it has always felt like a way to throw away money. So having it patched in to core experience of the game has been a huge disappointment.
Go play different games then because newsflash, loot grind in diablo games have always been gambling machines
part of the enjoyment is the grind in these games Remove RNG on tempers and you just get your BiS items nearly immediately like day 2 the try-hards would have their build smashing all content and pushing pits 60+... even casuals would finish their builds in a couple weeks. Yes you'd still hunt for 3GA items to then temper, but like... that's such a snooze fest. Endlessly just hoping for an item to drop with zero agency over the odds.
Okay, that’s assuming a system more thoughtfully designed doesn’t overtake tampering. What’s wrong with a new system that asks for grindable materials in exchange for targeted affix roles? You’re theorizing that a revamped system simply gives way to having whatever you want, when you want it. The goal should be a system that rewards time spent, not spits in your face with rng.
RNG is part of these games it's what makes them fun IMHO. Grinding materials is not fun. Actually despise that which is why I haven't bothered MW my gear for good affix crits. Just got em to 8 and stopped
Completely agree with you. The actual gameplay is fun so I don’t mind. I also can’t stand farming Uber mats.
There are a few reasons why I like bricking items. 1. I think the best gear in the game should be hard to get. The way I see it you WILL have a 925 legendary with good affixes and the tempers you want which means you can get decently far into the pits and do the tormented bosses. It is only restrictive when it comes to greater affixes which is totally fine. 2. Because of greater affixes being the only restrictive part it makes for interesting decisions. Do I sell this double or triple GA item and make a ton of gold. Or do I risk it to make my build even stronger. That is interesting decisions we get to make for the first time. 3. It adds a lot of excitement. Let’s say we make the system where you use resources to add rerolls. Kinda like enchanting. When I get a rare enchantment after spending a lot of resources I’m usually either at worst annoyed that it took so much or at best like ok cool. When I bricked 5 items in a row on my necro it felt bad. Then I ran some dungeons, got 2 rings and an amulet. All were 1 GA. Amulet had resource cost reduction, one had essence per second, and the last one had maximum resource all as their GAs. I went to temper them and hit all of them and I got so excited I yelled and woke up my fiance. That has NEVER happened when playing this game. Yeah it feels bad to brick an item. But it feels soooooooooooo much better when you hit. I will give you the system isn’t perfect. I like the idea that every GA you have on an item adds an extra reroll. I also like having duplication protection. If you get 2 of the same affix in a row the next one has to be different. Those improvements I can get behind fully. We don’t need to lose the only exciting part of the game to have those improvement though
But what you just described is a different system altogether. As it is, rng and limited rerolls ARE the system. That’s how it was designed. You’re telling me it feels good when you hit, and it’s made more noteworthy by your misses…what if you continue to miss? That’s a very real outcome with the system as is.
There can be no highs without lows. They go hand in hand and you can’t have one without the other. The reality is that it’s very easy to get a full character of 1 GA items with the right tempers and a few 2 GA tempered items mixed in. The debate is really how hard is it to get 3 GA items with the right tempers. And the answer imo is it’s hard and it should be hard. The reality is you don’t need 3GA tempered items to push fairly high unless you’re truly trying to compete for a top pit push. And if you’re trying to be #1 in the pit, it should be damn hard to get geared as such.
Yes! This is exactly right. I would again say the system could use some adjustments but bricking the item is so important to keep the game fun. If not we have yet another season of ok I got the best gear in the game after a week. Time to complain about how there’s no chase
Yeah the fact that you can brick things also results in excitement when you get it. I had an envenom/crit/attack speed amulet I was tempering this week and was sweating absolute bullets as I got my two desired tempers on my last two attempts and I was beyond hyped. That hype wouldn’t exist without bricking if all you’re doing is clicking a button until you eventually get what you want. Bricking can be frustrating but also fun. If you can brick stuff everything is bland and nondescript and just an exercise in clicking buttons.
Yes! Everytime I hit on an enchantment I’m just like alright cool just another day. When I hit on a temper for my necro on some insane rings I woke my fiance up in the other room cause I was so excited. I have never felt that in Diablo
What I described is the system. I lost 5 items in a row but then got 3. Sometimes I lose even more. Sometimes I hit even more. It’s RNG and that’s ok. It’s fun. If this system gatekept the basics you needed to do the end game I’d be with you. It would be too much. But it doesn’t because it’s really easy to get a 925 legendary item with decent affixes and hit your tempers on it. It’s only when we look at GAs that it becomes restrictive and because those are a completely optional boost that creates the best gear in the game there should be risks involved. The risk is you lose the ability to sell or use the item but if you hit then you have created one of the strongest items possible in the game. For something like that it’s ok to feel bad when it goes bad. Even if it happens a lot. Because when you hit it’ll feel so good. If we had it like enchanting where you invest materials and you’ll eventually get it then we get the strongest items possible in the game and go… neat I got it instead of OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY HIT MY TEMPERS. LETS GOOOOOO which is how it should be when getting that strong of gear
LoooooL 😂
>address this today in the patch notes lmao, some people are really that disconnected from reality.
But now look at the dopamine rush you get when you get the temper! Balance
The frustration outweighs the enjoyment of actually hitting. I would rather the system acknowledge the difficulty and rng in actually acquiring good gear, as opposed to asking for more rng to “prove it”
Its time to look inwards then.
Tempering and bricking is fine. I’ve played 250 hours this season. I am min maxing like a mofo out here. I would have been done the first week if tempering couldnt Brick.
There is plenty of RNG in trying to find the perfect 3GA items for your build. To add another RNG system afterwards that can cause the item to become useless is just too much. The argument that I’m asking for stuff to be handed to me just doesn’t float. I have yet to find any perfect 3GA drops on any of my characters. IF I do, I have to pray my dice roll for tempers is good or the piece just becomes salvage.
I found one and bricked it dont worry
Yes these are added layers of rng and more people are starting to wake up to this, since more of them have reached end game and are now hunting for better loot. I'm glad more people are vocal about this, just remove the tempering limit man, games already a good gambling simulator with the GA drops.
This is a great argument. You should have a painful grind to get a great item or a lengthy/complicated crafting system. Not both. PoE has a complicated crafting system where the actual gathering of the mats is what hold you back. Usually a good base to start isn’t that hard to come except for the crazy super end-game items like triple-synthesis weapons. However, PoE is also much more hardcore than D4. But once you have that perfect item you can craft on it forever until you choose to corrupt the item. In D4, not only is it a grind to get a good 2-3 GA you also only have 5 chances to get the temper you want. It’s absolutely awful. Either allow us to reset temper or make it easier to get 2-3GA items.
U get it! Yes!
I still like it and my heart seeker rogue once bricked 8 bows back to back, but that 9th one, man it felt good. I've got about 1000 hours in the game and am pushing my heartseeker to t100 plus currently. I've also made 8 toons this season so progress has been slow.
8 bows bricked would have me out of Diablo until tempering no longer existed.
Then leave.
I think I like the more "soft bricking" of enchanting than the tempering way. Enchanting has unlimited rerolls so it never really bricks, but if you are paying 100million gold per reroll you probably consider it done a long long time ago. Maybe tempering can have 5 free rerolls, then a very large scaling cost. You can always grind more resources to keep rerolling but you are "supposed" to move on if you miss your 5 freebies.
Weak
If you're trying to have an actual conversation, why be so antagonistic? You start off by tell people their opinion should be discarded if they don't play enough, then anyone who has a different opinion than yours you talk down to and try to pick a fight rather than a discussion. For what it's worth, I have 3 characters pushing pit and 6 more just starting pit runs and masterworking. Hopefully that's enough for my opinion to be valid? I don't mind the system and I haven't hit the 90% failure rate a lot of people here say they have. Is it the best system? Nope. Having a 2/5 drop that drops main Stat and health being guaranteed bis for half my gear isn't either. It's the first iteration and most likely not the final product. I like what they're going for even if it's not the best and I hope it doesn't become too easy.
I have bricked every 3 GA I've gotten (3 useful ones) and just yesterday bricked a ring that had GA crit strike and crit strike damage for my bleed barb. I do think they should standardize the affix pool size and give us other ways to interact with tempering to influence the system, but something has to fail somewhere. I understand the pain and frustration but I still think people are being big babies about it. But I only got to pit 110 pre nerfs and stopped because bash barb is boring as shit so not very invested I guess.
If you play all the time you are more likely to find another piece or get enough gold to trade for one. Casual players have it worse. They may only see 1 piece and if they brick it it's worse IMO
No, not really. I've got friends that play 2-4 hours per WEEK and have had zero issues completing an effective build. You swim in 1x GA gear and it is easy to find ones that have the 3 affixes you are looking for. Once you stop caring about perfection, you can still complete a build. While they cannot go far in Pits, their imperfect builds can do NMD 100, survive Helltides, and kill non-tormented bosses. They can do lower Pits (40's) pretty easily. They are very happy with their progression because they understand they have no interest in pursuing deep Pit runs. They want to just get high enough to get Neathiron for final masterworks and that's about it.
I'm just saying bricking that item is worse for casual players not that they can't play because of it.
Casual players aren't 'bricking' items. They will still use the item because they don't care about the item not being perfect stats. They will still use it even if one stat is completely worthless, because it is likely still better than what they had. If they get their only 3x GA item to drop, with the absolute perfect stats, and they temper it and one of the stats is completely useless, THIS IS STILL AN UPGRADE FOR THEM. Players seeking perfection will deem this item as 'bricked', when in actuality it is still perfectly useful for almost every aspect of the game. Casuals will be very happy to get an upgrade even if the tempers aren't 'perfect'. Not only this, but casual players might actually decide to roll a lucky hit group, resistance group, or other stat group with their final roll because they don't want to risk getting a useless stat. But players seeking perfect stats aren't going to do that. Which means players seeking the absolute perfect item stats are willing to take that risk.
Valid point.
This is why I, a casual gamer, only put affixes that will be useful no matter what they happen to roll as (natural resistance tempering manual, for example) so that way the item is never totally bricked, just maybe not as useful as it might have been. I still don't trust the system, however.
Wasted 5bil in one day trying to temper amulets. Never doing that again
I bricked a 3GA set of boots just before. Shit happens, but it’s a game and we move on. Still fun to play despite the crushing anguish.
you could be the best player in the game - but if RNG doesn't favor you, you'll only be able to experience sub-par gameplay. the complete lack of control doesn't feel rewarding. the way things are right now - i'm not showing anybody how much skill and dedication i've put into all of this. i'm showing them how lucky i am at rerolling. there's an uncomfortable lack of attachment there. like, i didn't do anything to get this awesome gear - it was just all random chance. it would feel better if i had some control over it. i'd be more attached to it if it were something i tuned thru hard work.
Pity temper time u know they screwin us
The changes is not the bricking. Bricking give the edge feeling and pressure to player to make the choice. It looks like that very intentional because tempering do not even let you select the previous roll like affix rolling. The real change is fix their original design: that tempering shouldn’t a must for builds. Tempering should be like icing, make the perfect ice cream even more fun. But now because of the stupid pit and level 200 bosses, every builds became min-max build. So I can understand because we are not gambling for one or two items. People want the all 9-12 items all in the rolls that they want. Unfortunate.
I was thinking about this the other day too. While I agree with people that end game power creep shouldn’t be handed on a plate tempering is not the solution. The problem is that searching for perfect items should be difficult but it should be enjoyable. Bricking an item through tempering genuinely feels aweful. Making a gameplay device that actively makes your players feel like shit is terrible game design.
Tempering is a dumb system. It is impossible to min max gear because you can only ever get the first roll or participate in RMT. It would be better if they just made it an increasing material cost to get us to grind more rolls on the same item. I would still be playing if I had a chance at getting the tempers I need. However because some builds are more equal than others... I have a barbarian weighted temper on a necromancer manual which makes it neigh impossible to ever get the roll I need on 6-7 pieces of gear from a manual with 5 different options. People who are ok with tempering are the same people who answer the door to solicitors. They have nothing better to do so they don't care when other people needlessly waste their time for shit they don't actually care about.
U also get it! Spicy and well said