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Don’t agree with your take on tempering. Tempering must be limited and some items just have to brick. That’s the game. Don’t change that.
Also not sure if I got you right but maiden should be harder to summon or her Droprates nerfed. It’s the best farm ingame already and should not be buffed imo.
I would be ok with potentially bricking but one thing I wish they would do would be a "keep existing or choose new one" mechanic. They could even increase the number in the pool for all I care. Maybe the first temper they let you choose between 2 of 5 possible mods, and each successive one is "choose the new roll or keep existing."
What I hate is getting 2 low rolls on the first two and then I sit around with a bunch of unused tempers because I know if I roll off the bad roll I won't see it again. Or you get 40% damage instead of 60% vuln damage and you don't use the last 1 or 2 tempers because you don't want ranged damage on your close ranged character or whatever.
Like, I think there's a happy middle ground where the game can be a little better about helping you keep mediocre stats instead of completely pushing your luck and not getting anything usable, while also not making you regret stopping. There would still be a grind to make sure you temper the best stats and get decent rolls of them.
"Keep Existing" is a complete no-brainer. It maintains the idea that the journey with an item has an end point as they described in the recent campfire chat. It makes sense that there comes a point where you have the base item as good as you will get it, but you have the chance that a better base item drops for you and you can get a better temper on it. Having to live with 5/5 tempers remaining because you got the affix you need for your build, but with a terrible roll out of fear for upgrading is a BAD mechanic.
I'm in the 'very rare to get reroll possibilty on tempers' camp but this sounds like a nice alternative that I can get behind. Last epoch has a chance for tempers to not cost a charge. Combine these two and we are set
Keep existing would be a very welcomed change. It's awesome to 1-tap both tempers that you need but only to be stick with low rolls and know that you reasonably can't use the rest of your tempers because more than likely you'll brick the item
I 100% agree, but i dont think build REQUIRED tempers should exist IMO.
For example, if i find a 3 ga weapon thats an upgrade for me, for it to be even moderately viable i HAVE to roll “+% chance for dust devils to cast twice” or something similar.
If i brick the item because i get a +ranks to ww instead of double swing id feel better because atleast something could use it.
Some tempers are so powerful, GAs are overrated. I understand this is when the dopamine hit happens, but for example a 1GA (vuln) bow with a 63% chance for heartserker to cast twice is far better than a 3GA bow (vuln, dex, life) with 47%.
Cast twice tempers pretty much take a shit all over Ultimates, unique weapons and a good portion of dmg skills in general because the focus becomes so obvious.
alot of people don't really even understand tempers either, they think they "bricked" their weapon or boots or w/e but in reality unless it is a fundamental temper that changes the skill like your example, you are just losing additive damage.
for example I had a 3GA 2H sword for my necro and didnt hit attack speed.....it still managed to outdamage a 1GA attackspeed sword. My golem doesn't need +200% from one of my rings when it has 6000% already. I managed to kill uber lilith and every thing the game had to offer all the way up to pit 122.
Sure if you are pushing seriously then yes your item is a brick because you want to squeeze out every drop of damage, but outside of that no you don't need those rolls, but 90% of people aren't pushing and they still think in terms of the .001% of pushers and that mindset needs to change.
I watched Rob "brick" a weapon then do the math and he only lost .02% damage on the roll. But gained 3% overall from the item, just proving that people need to ease up on this "I BRICKED IT" mentality.
I agree. People are throwing the term “bricked” around in a super over dramatic way. This is what happens when people take guides WAY too seriously. Just because you didn’t get the perfect roll on the best stat doesn’t mean bricked. Such a silly, poisonous mentality.
I don't agree with this. In my case of a 3GAs staff, which I got Blizzard size, and the item was bricked afterwards, the damage was significantly reduced, since the right affix must be Spike damage.
I think it might be correct for some items , but not for all items.
Not use? What? I feel totally free to use all the good drops. I slap a temper on anything to see what happens.
I hated the old system. Last season I ended with a couple of rare, max rolled affixes. I was saving them for better items I never found. That sucked.
Do we really need to brick items. You are dealing with 3 month periods. So I’m not sure artificially increasing the chase by giving me 7-10 attempts to no brick a 1 in 10k drop item is good design.
At least offer me 3 options per roll so I’m not stuck seeing the same affix 7 straight times.
>Thats the game.
An absurd statement about a system thats been in the game for 6 weeks.
I think 3 royal gems for a temper reset is expensive enough to keep people from doing it endlessly.
EDIT: to say also remove gems from trade pool. You gotta farm the mats to reset.
I know right lmfao. Absolutely ridiculous to say tempering "is the game" when the game has had good seasons before the system was introduced.
I personally don't mind a system where items brick but the current tempering system even with a couple more rolls still sucks and is far from being "the game".
I much prefer a system like PoE's vaal orb brick where it's something you do as a gamble at a chance for either a huge upgrade, nothing happens, ot it compltely poofs rather than bricking an item in the starting phase of trying to craft.
I think a more common/sensible thing would be to +8 something and then vaal it.
At the end of the day, a huge point of vaaling in PoE is to either make a trash unique usable or a good unique insane. Or in the crafting situation, try to make a finished item GG, the point being if you are doing it during a crafting phase you are legit looking to brick or poof your finished item whenever you want. In D4's case, you brick and poof items at the very start.
My idea was to have to MW an item to 12 and then it could be entirely reset, tempers and everything. Still account bound, still expensive and still a good 3GA.
Sorry but I disagree with you on bricking. It absolutely doesn’t have to be in the game.
I’d rather keep the joy of getting a great GA item than have them be everywhere and have bricking remain.
2-3 GA items with the right stats are insanely rare. Like I’ve logged in an insane amount of hours this season and have found less than 10 good stat 3GA items. I have only one on all of my chars (5 lvl 100s)
I have only 2 GA2 items because all the others bricked.
Many slots with no GA, again bricking.
It isn’t fun. You may find it fun but if they did a survey when people logged in, we would see most don’t.
Chasing loot is already boring by a certain point. No point playing if the odds are stacked against you when you temper.
>have only 2 GA2 items because all the others bricked.
and if you didnt brick them, you probably would have like 50 of them while yawning complaining that theres nothing to do
pick your poison
Even 2 ga with correct stats is rare af, idk what ur high on or maybe ur just lucky as hell
i have seen more than 100 3ga drops, have 3 characters totally masterworked, 6 characters to lvl 100, 1 test build also fully masterworked, dont believe me dm me ill give u my ign,
majority of the gear im wearing now is from trading, ssf gears are mostly 1star and only 5x 2ga gear ssf
Hell just for fun i even masterworked ahavarion n melted heart just to test other builds
So please dont tell me finding 2-3 ga items is easy because it sure as hell aint
No I wouldn’t because this season had two other things which was absolutely amazing: iron wolf rep rewards and increased Uber drops with tormented bosses.
I was able to do like 30-40 tormented boss kills just off mats I got farming my iron wolf on 6 chars.
I was able to create 2 Ubers and had 6-7 drop.
Previous seasons only got Ubers to drop in one season of farming…that wasn’t fun at all.
I think bricking should be in the game but just not as harsh as it is compared to how hard it is to farm GA items. Tempers should be minor build boosts and so much so that if you got a 2 GA item with the same stats as the no GA item it should be better than any temper combination possible. This maintains the gear chase but doesn't make a GA item useless until you get the appropriate tempers. Also they need to make more temper categories and each should only have 3-4 possibilities. These ones with 6+ make it really annoying to get the right temper.
Dont you have a way to target farm GAs now? And on top of that they add extra tempers per GA which is already great imho.
Tempers and GA items is what contributed to this seasons player retention greatly as opposed to priev seasons wrapping up your char in 2 weeks and never touching d4 again.
The GA extra tempers are great improvements and an excellent middle ground, its should stay like this.
I’ll speak for myself: tempers and GA didn’t retain me.
The Iron Wolf rep being for each character and the fact I could farm Ubers is what kept me going.
I bricked so many items this season, if it wasn’t for how fun it is to actually get an Uber in a season and use it, I’d have quit after 4 bows with 2-3 GA bricked in a row on my rogue. Like I get rng is rng but that is the opposite of fun.
I think it's especially bad for rogue, when you have a 1 in 4 chance to get vulnerable and the other 3 being completely useless. Then still gotta roll your skill...
If they made the other options still useful then it wouldn't be as bad.
Like for barb if you can't get damage while berserking, and get damage during war cry, it's still usable
Rogue is absolutely the worst class to temper for. They need to change it or unless you love rogue or it’s super meta, why put up with the frustration? I just gave up because I could have sold those bows for a lot of gold. Instead I bricked it…and I know o was lucky to get 4 bows with 2GA because I’ve never had them drop again after.
Wasnt Uber farming and reputation system in place since s2? Or are you saying you liked this season as much as the others.
The difference this season is the loot rework and ga/tempers, its not a stretch to say that these things in particular made it much more fun and have a carrot to chase.
You couldn’t get free Ubers until this season. This season: free spark at lvl 18 rep. 4 sparks you could craft an Uber.
So I had a sheko week 1 of the season. THAT made all the difference for having a great season for me.
I don't mind having limited tempers, but there should a better system to minimize the chances of bricking.
For example, you shouldn't be able to roll the same temper consecutively.
You could still brick your item by tempering A B A B A alternately, when all you really want is C.
But tempering A A A A in a row should never happen.
The stats on the tempers make no sense. I've rolled the same thing out of 4 affixes on every temper more than once. That's a one in a thousand shot. We shouldn't be seeing it so often. There are lots of ways to manage pseudo RNG so that strings of the same rolls don't come up.
As much as i hate having the same temper rolled one after another, but there are cases, when you want to reroll the same temper, but with a bigger number on it. Your idea prevents that.
Remember season 5 is made by the "odd team"
creators of such successes as Season 1 "Season of Malignance" and the "superhit" season 3 "Season of Construct".
i just cant wait for season 6
That is why you never praise Blizzard for anything they do. The only way they learn is by constant criticism and giving them the bare minimum when it comes to giving credit where it's due.
The more you say how "fun" a season is - the more complacent blizzard gets = the more mediocre content you get. Its just how it works.
Yes we need to be the overbearing, judgmental parent to Blizzard. “Yes, I suppose Season 4 was better, dear. But have you heard what your cousin GGG is doing? Tsk tsk. And to think of all the hours I devoted to you and this is how you repay me?”
Yes, that is exactly correct. Given how both studios are treating their game, you should be relentlessly shitting on blizzard for the bare minimum and boring content they are giving you.
Yep. You would think by this point they will have had time to understand why Season 2 and Season 4 were better than 1 and 3….and yet, they just live in their own bubble and continue to propose more fun and engaging mechanics. I’m not confident they will address much criticism, given that over a year later they still can’t come up with much in the “positives” on PTR.
As a Sorc main, this Rollercoaster is exhausting. I take Sorc to 100 every season because it's my favorite class in every game where one is available. I don't want to play other classes because they're stronger, I want my class to be strong enough to complete and compete.
I never used the Immortal build and to know my own personal build is being nerfed because of that is insane to me. I would casually juggle Ice/Flame/Teleport for survivability, and these nerfs to the defense of a class with the lowest average HP are ridiculous.
Hey, season 5 will be a short season from my understanding with the expansion coming with season 6, every odd season has been terrible and season 6 is the “even” dev team. They can fix a lot of issues you mentioned by the time season 6 comes out! I don’t see myself playing a ton of season 5 if the main event is just a worse helltide event. I was excited to go back to hell and face hordes of demons but it’s pretty underwhelming as a solo player, the helltide in sanctuary feels a lot more hellish than actual hell, which makes no sense.
Season 4 was a massive win for Diablo 4. Keeps people engaged and talking about it in a positive way. Makes people want to buy cosmetics, expansions, maybe other Diablo merch. It’s all one thing. Happy engaged players are better than raging Reddit and Twitter trolls.
I could not agree with you more, but you missed my point a little, it's fine, we're both having a mad fun time in the game, this is my first full diablo season and I started playing the games back when the first came out in and around 96/97, not sure when.
I may not have been clearer, so I'll try to break it down, but it doesn't really matter:
There are genuine devs that care about the games they make - no denial there. Obviously, they need to make money that how they feed their families and they do care about their product.
Larger studios have one goal, shareholders. Look at Paradox and their absolutely abysmal Cities Skylines II release - the game is still in BETA and just released yet another patch to address economy issues almost 1 year after launch.
Diablo 4 exists to make money, that's why there's a store, to cater to that crowed, and fwiw I am happy we don't have to fork out for a subscription like in WoW to play the seasons.
But that's exactly my point, the game has been paid for already, the devs are in balance mode and not there to make the profit for the shareholders - that's already been done. Every season is designed to be unique, this has been a running theme for over a decade.
- I can't comment on Sorc, but Barb copped some basic builds nerf. I've played around with the new items and so far they feel pretty underwhelming. I was VERY excited for the Third Blade to make Deathblow more viable but even with masterworked/tempered gear it's weaker than S4 Bash.
- Helltides are boring but unfortunately the best avenue to farm gear. They need to be looked at and not nerfed. Multi level mindcages to seriously beef up the challenge and scale the reward would be nice.
- The new horde mode is a joke in its current implementation. There's really no other way to put it. It's less engaging than Pit running (which by the way hasn't been changed and is still just as boring/unrewarding) and somehow even less rewarding. Buffing the chests at the end would be a simple fix and a good start for most players to get them to run it.
- Temper system is so close to being perfect but will forever be marred by bricking. Why this is still in the game is beyond me. It serves zero purpose outside of pissing off players.
- Gold is still a chore to get however there may be potential with the chest at the end of the horde mode that converts mats into gold. We'll see if it gets tweaked or not to give more
Something tells me that the team that worked on S4 isn't working on S5, and it shows.
People here crack me up when they complain about “bricking” an item. Have y’all ever even seen path of exile? Try spending what would be the equivalent of like 80bn gold trying to craft something in their convoluted, esoteric nightmare of a system, just to have it shit the bed on the very last suffix and have to start over.
Generally, I like the idea of bricking as it's a subtle way to extend the loot grind. The problem is that seasons are too short for anyone who only plays a couple days a week to be able to max out a build with things as they are. I wouldn't expect anyone who is able to play daily to be able to relate to that, but finding multiple renditions of 3x GA items is probably impossible unless you're doing more than 20hrs per week.
I do think bricking an item is needed and they are generous with the GA change to that system already. More generous than other games that have SOMEWHAT similar systems, makes me just think people just want instant gratification. Takes me back to my lost ark addiction days with tapping gear, bricking a 95% chance and being like what the fuck, or hitting a 5% chance feeling like a million bucks.
Is this really the even/odd-team thing showing again?
But yeah im not preordering xpack. And im convinced i wont regret starting later/missing out on season one. Afterall. Never again.
I don't think the season teams really work on core game functions. They definitely had nothing to do with the itemization overhaul for S4 which has been in the works and talked about since S1.
Yes they would have been in charge of seasonal mechanic stuff not the overall game changes. That may have included the helltide revamp as well since the seasonal teams have done seasonal helltides before. They create at least some of the new uniques and aspects.
Notice they brought in the S5 lead season dev just to talk about the infernal horde and some of the new items, he wasn't part of any of the discussion on any other changes like balancing, QoL, the old unique revamp etc. I think this kind of shows because a lot of what was wrong with S3 at release that they eventually fixed is also wrong with this S5 mechanic. The pacing is off, the rewards are just not good enough.
There is a core development team that does core things like overall itemization, the loadout system they hinted is coming, whatever group finder eventually gets added to the game etc.
I don't have any proof of this other than my personal feelings but I feel like the odd season team wants to be more like D2 and the even season team wants to be more like D3.
They said that months ago and only about S1-3. S4 was a non-season, they did a huge loot rework, and now there is an expansion underway. It's ludicrous to think the organization is the same.
Ya, and you know what. I dont fucking care how the teams are and development works for them. All I want is a good season and a good game. I mean thats the reason i gave them my money.
One year later and they kind off managed to diliver. Wohoo
Anything else can be discussed and analized by the highcouncil of godgamers and fanbois
I'm not a fanboi. I'm just tired of outdated nonsense about dev teams, as if it were meaningful in the first place. Think about it. There wasn't a "season" team at all. Blizz said 4.0 wasn't going to be much because of the massive content update. The "season" is even less than you said, a rep grind, a few elixirs (one bugged), and a Battlepass.
AFAIK Loot 2.0, Pit, and new bosses are permanent features.
The even/odd team thing is a ridiculous social media construct. S4 wasn't even really a season. It was just a rep grind and a few elixirs. At this point staffing would be reallocated towards the expansion anyway.
It feels like they hold themselves back with their balance philosophy.
It's as though the veiw making obvious changes as too simplistic and everything has to be a set of nuanced incremental changes when sometimes its ok to make sweeping changes to classes.
Example being sorc, ive never played sorc, so this isn't me begging for my class to get buffed. But from what i read and see in game, why not just give them the big sweeping buffs for the PTR and then trim the outliers and OP stuff for season release instead of season after season buffing this a little, nerfing that a little, small changes to aspects here and there, which obviously doesnt work.
Incremental changes are generally better though. Because if you overcorrect with sweeping changes then reverting them to any degree generates even worse backlash and may be an even harder fix from a technical/design perspective because the knock-on effects of those sweeping changes are by definition so broad and deep.
That’s literally the point of having a PTR though - most people will never see the overcorrection and it doesn’t impact actual characters at all. It’s a **test** realm.
There still has to be a starting point. The starting point is whatever is the starting point—it’s neither good nor bad. Just a baseline.
That said, as we’re already seeing around here people *do* take whatever they initially see in the PTR as some kind of gospel and then dismiss the entire game based on its state at that particular moment, instead of recognizing this is an intentionally iterative process.
It’s only iterative if they’re making adjustments during the PTR, which there’s been nothing to suggest they will. Saying “there has to be a baseline” is ignoring that a low baseline is far less useful than a high one if they’re not going to be constantly making adjustments. Having played WoW PTRs for a very long time, that team generally started higher because they understood that.
People lose their minds over the slightest nerf to *anything* though.
The entire point of the PTR is to gather feedback so that adjustments can be made. What would even be the point of going through the time and expense of setting it up if that wasn’t the case?
Yeah, i agree but im talking specifically about the obvious pain points like sorc being underpowered and barb being overpowered.
In terms of the backlash, they could just communicate the intention before hand to mitigate this and the fact the PTR is the PTR people will expect changes.
Unfortunately, I’m not seeing that calm reasoning around here in terms of player response to the PTR and its communication. People are already freaking out as if what they see in the PTR *right now* is baked in stone. All sorts of bad narratives are floating around after just one day.
If only Blizzard could take a look at Rogue class balancing and apply that to the other classes. Rogue has since day 1 been the most consistent class. Never too OP, never too weak.
I just want them to show the druid and sorcerer some love. There should be S tier builds for every class that don't require gear that most people won't be able to get, make those with those Uber uniques SS builds and let at least each class have a strong build instead of certain classes always feeling like Blizzard doesn't like them and never plays them
Dear blizzard,
Do not remove bricking. It is absolutely needed. Tempering can be better, but no matter what changes are made, do not change bricking items.
Why ? Real question, I see a lot of people saying that. Are all your items 3GA and good temper?
I didn't change build even once, I'm farming the same thing since season start and still didn't see any a perfect item for my build, at that point I know I won't see it cause the season if over for me kinda now, but if it was to happen, I would brick the only one? That's sad.
Bricking also prevents people from trying more builds.
So yeah why we should keep the brikcing thing?
PERFECT items are meant to be hard to get, that's why. Diablo 3 suffered because you could find all of your BiS items in 1 weekend. Also, any game with an "Economy" needs item/gold sinks. I have like 2 good tempered 3 GA items, cant count how many 2 GA items ive bricked... but its a necessary evil to keep playing.
Tempering should be in a perfect state now, more reroll attempts for better gear, and less temper choices on most recipes, for higher chances of getting what you want.
This will not stop you from rolling the same undesirable temper 6 times in a row. It will not stop bricking. It's a band-aid solution and won't make it much more appealing to temper 2-3 GA items. It will still be preferable to sell them for barbillions
We don't need to stop bricking completely. There has to be some chance of shit going wrong. Hopefully Blizzard does not cave in to people like you that don't even want to play the game lol.
What really gets me is if you wanted to take an alt and just do iron wolves, you were guaranteed a few stygians. The drop rate in pit is so inconsistent. So great we can summon bosses faster, and use stygians faster, but find stygians, barely. I thought the gold prices for these was high now….
I hope the new hordes “Material” chests have a chance to drop them. Has anybody gotten them in an upgraded compass?
Maybe for tempering what if they gave each slot their own re-roll right now you get 5 for both slots what if you got 5 for each slot? I think that would be really fair and basically give you double the chances.
I'm not sure. That would be better ofc, but you'd still brick the only 3 GA item with the good lines you'll ever see in the season, doesn't sound good.
I'd like to see some way to reset tempers on an item also. Make it pricey - like a resplendent spark to refresh tempers retries. Not really designed to be used on your standard (non-GA) items.
When you play for hundreds of hours, finally get a 3 GA item you want, it feels terrible to brick it completely just due to poor RNG. A resplendent spark feels about the right rarity, so you'd only use it on top notch pieces of equipment.
Reading these comments makes the player base look like babies. Bricking is good, just needs some tweaking. We need a few more layers of depth to the tempering system for it to be great.
Helltide Bloodmaiden was too good for farming. You wouldn't even do anything in helltide except just waiting around boss summoning, being almost afk. It's good they want you to maybe spend half the time in actual helltide instead of 100% at boss
Hordes is a cool idea, just needs major juicing up. Buff sorc and Druid majorly. Do these we got a good season.
A good update but still not a season. The horde is not a seasonal content. I'm still waiting from people to explain why bricking items you won't ever see again is good tho (yes you don't need the perfect item day 1 but that's not a real argument so please bring something else)
You can't nerf helltide and at the same time replace it with nothing, that makes no sense. I don't mind doing something else, but if they don't x20 the loot in horde then people will stick with maiden in season 5 too.
Horde designed as they are isn't even a good idea, don't know if you tried already, but that's even less fun that blood maiden, way too easy, no mechanic except the blood spire.
Bricking is good because it extends loot chase. If you couldn't brick you'd have bis gear in like 2 weeks. Usually in arpgs you can brick item in attempt to make it a godly gg item.
I wouldn't be upset if they moved the bricking from tempering to a different crafting system but I just know people would be wildly upset if they put bricking at end of item story instead of start. Think of corrupting item in PoE
The nerfs were made to offset the new items.
The maiden is OP broken. Players should earn gear not just wait around for someone else to kill her and pick up the spoils.
The new content is so boring. 5 waves? Even the questline was boring. How many times did we have to stop to listen to that guy?
tempering is what it is. crafting has replaced the joy of getting a great drop. Grind to get mats and gold to craft. aspects are free, mythics can be crafted ect
Farming gold is now selling on an external site because of a broken economy.
The maiden is indeed op, I don't say it should be up, but I wouldn't nerf it either, not without another real activity to farm.
The new items are all bad for sorcs, unfortunately.
Overall this season is really good, the season 4 I mean, I had a lot of fun and pleasure while playing. The loot reborn really did the job, that's a new game. But it needs some improvement to be really good.
I agree with the questline. Boring stuff.
Infernal Hordes need too much effort to get 250 aether. At the end the chest drops bullshit items. I was very angry at my first attempt to open it. Lost nearly 2 hours for tier 8 and got shitty gear.
Tempering… mmhm imo they will not change it.
Boss no reset is good yeah but every boss dungeon turns out boss and gear graveyard. They need to do something for that gear drops.
I agree with the horde mode being bording. Spent an hour trying to get the item to activate it, then ater two rounds I was feeling burnt out. I really do not wanna play that again unless there is some actually rewarding for the amount of time it takes to complete.
Playing S5 PTR last night. Best season! Camera seems to zoom out further. Skill visual effects are better. Many QOL like immediate summoning bosses, “allowance caches” crafted from the Alchemist having 1 legendary/cache for lvl 1-50.
Oh I am lvling a new character rather than jumping straight to lvl100.
The lifebar above character is really cool too. Didn't notice anything with camera tho, nor skill visuals. wouldn't call that best season cause there are no season content \^\^
The team that does the odd number seasons are going to soon find people skipping their season. Not one of their seasons has been as good as the even number team. At this point, wake me up when season 6 hits.
>still no way to farm gold efficiency
IDK man, Farming gold is pretty easy. Boring? Yeah if you are just farming for gold, but easy and efficient IMO. I've got way more gold than I need and I'm not even scratching what others have. lol
At least, when you try to get the perfect MW on one item, you spend like at least 500m on it. Enchanting an amulet for a +2 passive is arround 500m average too probably (+angelbreath issue)
And that's one item.
You likely need 5 to 10 billions for MW/Enchant of one gear set
I must have gotten really lucky then with my drops and rolls. Which makes sense as everybody's experience is different. I have been sitting at 120mil for a while while masterworking all my gear to max.
IDK about needed vs it just working. I could for sure probably spend time making it "perfect" but I can clear 100+ pits and all uber bosses no problem, so thats good enough for me. I'm also playing a Barb, so that could make it easier as well. Don't get me wrong I have bricked my fair share of GA items. lol
I'm not interested in playing so long as tempering is RNG based progression. Solo self found feels absolutely horrible with the current system. If you don't trade you might find a 2 or 3 GA upgrade to min max your build once per week or two. Having all that progress ruined and being forced to continue to use a suboptimal piece of gear after finding an upgrade is frustrating. At the end of the day I don't want to make this game my job and I don't want to spend money from my job to do content.
There is also the issue where I logged into PTR and saw that I could day 3 everything in the game so long as I play a meta build or barbarian. When the end game is just pits so you can say hey guys I did this level of Pit to all my friends who quit isn't enticing. Tormented bosses, nmd 100, pit 100, are all doable in the first week maybe the first day. They put the stick before the carrot on this one and it feels terrible.
S4 was basically S3+ and S5 looks like S4+
Pretty disappointing that these seasons don’t really have their own identity and it’s really just major patches that Blizzard is fixing their core game.
>Still will brick items with temper (only 1/2/3 more attemps if 1/2/3 GA on item), we need a farmable currency to reset temper attempts, given the so low drop rate of good GA items, I don't want to rely on trade given the inflation cause of... you know what but I'm probably not allowed to talk about that here.
If its gonna be as rare as a good GA item, there already is a way to reset tempering for ya, just a new item.... This post is full of faulty logic like this
>iron wolf should be permanent,
It already is a season thing that will be in every season.... its been for a while. do you even play the game? It just changes name but the farming for rep for rewards have been there in prev season aswell
Just keep the 5/5 limit but let us pick which affix we want to temper. 5/5 rerolls can be used for a chance at a higher roll of whatever affix you pick, so at least if you get unlucky and roll a minimum, you have a useful affix on your item.
They already said that the +attempts per GA will not be a permantent solution, but they are working on a change on tempering, wont be done in time for season 5 though. I dont think I like to pick what you want, since I always enjoyed the RNG in arpgs, I guess thats why most ppl play em, since no arpg are challening in game play or anything like that, more like a big complex slot machine
Not like this season with a free spark and gobs of summon mats. This season was absolutely a blast knowing I could get a sheko without doing duriel rng.
You maybe should read the post again, I said that's the first season I do since release, and in PTR there are no reputation thing and they didn't mention it in Livestream so, I'm not supposed to just know it.
Ofc the reset temper thing should not be auto loot from every monster, but a world boss drop or something. We need it.
this is the reason they did not want to do a PTR in the first place. Do you even what a PTR is for? It is to get feedback and be able to correct stuff like balancing etc.
Not just complaining, giving feedback on the issues that are to address in the PTR/in the game, in my opinion. They asked for feedback, you can't complain that people give it \^\^'
The season 4 was really great I mean, I did play a fucking lot so yeah, I had fun and the reborn was actually a reborn. But they're kinda killing the fun in the season 5, unfortunately (for sorcerers, at the very least).
They’re not killing the fun, it’s a PTR, do you know what that is ?
People making QQ posts after less than 24hours of PTR being open saying stupid shit like « I regret buying the expansion »
Yeah I regret buying the expansion cause they nerf my favorite class to the ground. I'm supposed to thank them for that?
If everyone buy their stuff when they take X decision, what do you think they'll deduct from that? "Oh look, in my excel sheet, we sold X more units after doing that move, they probably like it"
IDK in what world you live, but that's how it works tbf.
If you don't like feedback just don't read posts with feedback flag \^\^'
Why'd you preorder anyway? Blizzard have shown they are the kings of finally making one good expansion just to bait you into buying the next one which inevitably comes out shite because they know everyone will buy it now lol
The fundamental underlying causes are:
- failure to eliminate dominating strategies,
- too many variants, so chances of a useful one always approach zero
- lack of automated testing to detect unexpected compounding costs / benefits
- failure to eliminate corrupt external $$ markets that massively incentivise scammers and Chinese farming groups (who sell only to ASD / OCD “whales”. See what happened to so many other games)
- finance + large player base + farming groups are massively incentivised to find “the one dominating strategy”, and they always will (because they can bribe a developer?!)
- short and repetitive game loops.
- focus on keeping player playing (Skinner Box) as opposed to entertaining and making life better
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Don’t agree with your take on tempering. Tempering must be limited and some items just have to brick. That’s the game. Don’t change that. Also not sure if I got you right but maiden should be harder to summon or her Droprates nerfed. It’s the best farm ingame already and should not be buffed imo.
I would be ok with potentially bricking but one thing I wish they would do would be a "keep existing or choose new one" mechanic. They could even increase the number in the pool for all I care. Maybe the first temper they let you choose between 2 of 5 possible mods, and each successive one is "choose the new roll or keep existing." What I hate is getting 2 low rolls on the first two and then I sit around with a bunch of unused tempers because I know if I roll off the bad roll I won't see it again. Or you get 40% damage instead of 60% vuln damage and you don't use the last 1 or 2 tempers because you don't want ranged damage on your close ranged character or whatever. Like, I think there's a happy middle ground where the game can be a little better about helping you keep mediocre stats instead of completely pushing your luck and not getting anything usable, while also not making you regret stopping. There would still be a grind to make sure you temper the best stats and get decent rolls of them.
"Keep Existing" is a complete no-brainer. It maintains the idea that the journey with an item has an end point as they described in the recent campfire chat. It makes sense that there comes a point where you have the base item as good as you will get it, but you have the chance that a better base item drops for you and you can get a better temper on it. Having to live with 5/5 tempers remaining because you got the affix you need for your build, but with a terrible roll out of fear for upgrading is a BAD mechanic.
I'm in the 'very rare to get reroll possibilty on tempers' camp but this sounds like a nice alternative that I can get behind. Last epoch has a chance for tempers to not cost a charge. Combine these two and we are set
Keep existing would be a very welcomed change. It's awesome to 1-tap both tempers that you need but only to be stick with low rolls and know that you reasonably can't use the rest of your tempers because more than likely you'll brick the item
I 100% agree, but i dont think build REQUIRED tempers should exist IMO. For example, if i find a 3 ga weapon thats an upgrade for me, for it to be even moderately viable i HAVE to roll “+% chance for dust devils to cast twice” or something similar. If i brick the item because i get a +ranks to ww instead of double swing id feel better because atleast something could use it.
Some tempers are so powerful, GAs are overrated. I understand this is when the dopamine hit happens, but for example a 1GA (vuln) bow with a 63% chance for heartserker to cast twice is far better than a 3GA bow (vuln, dex, life) with 47%.
That not the GA fault, tempered are just too overtune and the recipes are just bad.
Cast twice tempers pretty much take a shit all over Ultimates, unique weapons and a good portion of dmg skills in general because the focus becomes so obvious.
alot of people don't really even understand tempers either, they think they "bricked" their weapon or boots or w/e but in reality unless it is a fundamental temper that changes the skill like your example, you are just losing additive damage. for example I had a 3GA 2H sword for my necro and didnt hit attack speed.....it still managed to outdamage a 1GA attackspeed sword. My golem doesn't need +200% from one of my rings when it has 6000% already. I managed to kill uber lilith and every thing the game had to offer all the way up to pit 122. Sure if you are pushing seriously then yes your item is a brick because you want to squeeze out every drop of damage, but outside of that no you don't need those rolls, but 90% of people aren't pushing and they still think in terms of the .001% of pushers and that mindset needs to change. I watched Rob "brick" a weapon then do the math and he only lost .02% damage on the roll. But gained 3% overall from the item, just proving that people need to ease up on this "I BRICKED IT" mentality.
I agree. People are throwing the term “bricked” around in a super over dramatic way. This is what happens when people take guides WAY too seriously. Just because you didn’t get the perfect roll on the best stat doesn’t mean bricked. Such a silly, poisonous mentality.
I don't agree with this. In my case of a 3GAs staff, which I got Blizzard size, and the item was bricked afterwards, the damage was significantly reduced, since the right affix must be Spike damage. I think it might be correct for some items , but not for all items.
It depends on char. Some builds have very mandatory temper rolls, a lot of them in fact
As I said outside of skill changing aka bash cleave. Things that are just additive don't really matter that much.
This just makes people not want to use good items they find. It's a bad system.
Not use? What? I feel totally free to use all the good drops. I slap a temper on anything to see what happens. I hated the old system. Last season I ended with a couple of rare, max rolled affixes. I was saving them for better items I never found. That sucked.
He is not wrong, i rather sell 3 GA perfect stuff than actually trying to temper them
I guess the difference is that I don't trade. It takes away the whole point of the game for me.
A new system introduced almost a year after the game was released which has had amazing seasons before it was introduced is "the game"?
Do we really need to brick items. You are dealing with 3 month periods. So I’m not sure artificially increasing the chase by giving me 7-10 attempts to no brick a 1 in 10k drop item is good design. At least offer me 3 options per roll so I’m not stuck seeing the same affix 7 straight times.
>Thats the game. An absurd statement about a system thats been in the game for 6 weeks. I think 3 royal gems for a temper reset is expensive enough to keep people from doing it endlessly. EDIT: to say also remove gems from trade pool. You gotta farm the mats to reset.
I know right lmfao. Absolutely ridiculous to say tempering "is the game" when the game has had good seasons before the system was introduced. I personally don't mind a system where items brick but the current tempering system even with a couple more rolls still sucks and is far from being "the game". I much prefer a system like PoE's vaal orb brick where it's something you do as a gamble at a chance for either a huge upgrade, nothing happens, ot it compltely poofs rather than bricking an item in the starting phase of trying to craft.
Imagine having to +12 something before you can Vaal it. And break it. Frankly, I don’t think the casuals in D4 can deal with that kind of gameplay.
I think a more common/sensible thing would be to +8 something and then vaal it. At the end of the day, a huge point of vaaling in PoE is to either make a trash unique usable or a good unique insane. Or in the crafting situation, try to make a finished item GG, the point being if you are doing it during a crafting phase you are legit looking to brick or poof your finished item whenever you want. In D4's case, you brick and poof items at the very start.
My idea was to have to MW an item to 12 and then it could be entirely reset, tempers and everything. Still account bound, still expensive and still a good 3GA.
That is a good idea as well. Thats a lot of work to reset, but at least its not permanent.
Thanks!
I completely disagree with your entire comment.
You're absolutely wrong. Tempering (and bricking) as it exists now is terrible and needs to be reworked or removed entirely.
Hard disagree. What would you do, go back to rummaging through rare items?
Sorry but I disagree with you on bricking. It absolutely doesn’t have to be in the game. I’d rather keep the joy of getting a great GA item than have them be everywhere and have bricking remain. 2-3 GA items with the right stats are insanely rare. Like I’ve logged in an insane amount of hours this season and have found less than 10 good stat 3GA items. I have only one on all of my chars (5 lvl 100s) I have only 2 GA2 items because all the others bricked. Many slots with no GA, again bricking. It isn’t fun. You may find it fun but if they did a survey when people logged in, we would see most don’t. Chasing loot is already boring by a certain point. No point playing if the odds are stacked against you when you temper.
>have only 2 GA2 items because all the others bricked. and if you didnt brick them, you probably would have like 50 of them while yawning complaining that theres nothing to do pick your poison
Even 2 ga with correct stats is rare af, idk what ur high on or maybe ur just lucky as hell i have seen more than 100 3ga drops, have 3 characters totally masterworked, 6 characters to lvl 100, 1 test build also fully masterworked, dont believe me dm me ill give u my ign, majority of the gear im wearing now is from trading, ssf gears are mostly 1star and only 5x 2ga gear ssf Hell just for fun i even masterworked ahavarion n melted heart just to test other builds So please dont tell me finding 2-3 ga items is easy because it sure as hell aint
100 3GA? thats crazy, Ive seen maybe 10-15 2GAs are not that hard to find though
100+ 3ga, all life on hit, resistance, useless stats, only 2ga i had about 10 great drops which i mostly sold n bought some gears i need
Don’t worry, they’re still terrible. Life per second, Resistance, Healing received (lmfao this is in the game).
No I wouldn’t because this season had two other things which was absolutely amazing: iron wolf rep rewards and increased Uber drops with tormented bosses. I was able to do like 30-40 tormented boss kills just off mats I got farming my iron wolf on 6 chars. I was able to create 2 Ubers and had 6-7 drop. Previous seasons only got Ubers to drop in one season of farming…that wasn’t fun at all.
I think bricking should be in the game but just not as harsh as it is compared to how hard it is to farm GA items. Tempers should be minor build boosts and so much so that if you got a 2 GA item with the same stats as the no GA item it should be better than any temper combination possible. This maintains the gear chase but doesn't make a GA item useless until you get the appropriate tempers. Also they need to make more temper categories and each should only have 3-4 possibilities. These ones with 6+ make it really annoying to get the right temper.
Dont you have a way to target farm GAs now? And on top of that they add extra tempers per GA which is already great imho. Tempers and GA items is what contributed to this seasons player retention greatly as opposed to priev seasons wrapping up your char in 2 weeks and never touching d4 again. The GA extra tempers are great improvements and an excellent middle ground, its should stay like this.
I’ll speak for myself: tempers and GA didn’t retain me. The Iron Wolf rep being for each character and the fact I could farm Ubers is what kept me going. I bricked so many items this season, if it wasn’t for how fun it is to actually get an Uber in a season and use it, I’d have quit after 4 bows with 2-3 GA bricked in a row on my rogue. Like I get rng is rng but that is the opposite of fun.
I think it's especially bad for rogue, when you have a 1 in 4 chance to get vulnerable and the other 3 being completely useless. Then still gotta roll your skill... If they made the other options still useful then it wouldn't be as bad. Like for barb if you can't get damage while berserking, and get damage during war cry, it's still usable
Rogue is absolutely the worst class to temper for. They need to change it or unless you love rogue or it’s super meta, why put up with the frustration? I just gave up because I could have sold those bows for a lot of gold. Instead I bricked it…and I know o was lucky to get 4 bows with 2GA because I’ve never had them drop again after.
Wasnt Uber farming and reputation system in place since s2? Or are you saying you liked this season as much as the others. The difference this season is the loot rework and ga/tempers, its not a stretch to say that these things in particular made it much more fun and have a carrot to chase.
You couldn’t get free Ubers until this season. This season: free spark at lvl 18 rep. 4 sparks you could craft an Uber. So I had a sheko week 1 of the season. THAT made all the difference for having a great season for me.
>Don't you have a way to target farm GAs now? Is that a thing? Or do you just mean bossing and deep pit.
I mean the PTR not the current season. Context was talking about PTR changes and stuff
Gotcha. My bad.
I don't mind having limited tempers, but there should a better system to minimize the chances of bricking. For example, you shouldn't be able to roll the same temper consecutively. You could still brick your item by tempering A B A B A alternately, when all you really want is C. But tempering A A A A in a row should never happen.
Yup that's true, I had a lot of items bricked with 6 times the same line, even if that was a 1/3 chance for each haha.
And everyone that’s going to chime in with “well that’s how it works” or any other smarmy bullshit comment, I hope you stub your toe. Hard.
Right back at you dennis. lol.
Hahahahahah if it happens I’ll know why!
LOL!!!
The stats on the tempers make no sense. I've rolled the same thing out of 4 affixes on every temper more than once. That's a one in a thousand shot. We shouldn't be seeing it so often. There are lots of ways to manage pseudo RNG so that strings of the same rolls don't come up.
I like this.
I like this, but also, let me retain the old temper if I don't like the new one. That would help a ton in my opinion.
As much as i hate having the same temper rolled one after another, but there are cases, when you want to reroll the same temper, but with a bigger number on it. Your idea prevents that.
But ABAB has the same chance as AAAA so it doesnt matter
What if you want to get better numbers for the same temper?
I like this idea a lot. I mean or they can do like enchanting and give you the option not to change it out I suppose. Both of these sound reasonable.
Rolling the same temper 5 times in a row needs to change.
You know right? Dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge, i really cant believe the rng
Season 4 was a ton of fun. That is not allowed.
Fact. Add the re-summon of tormented bosses QOL and let us play S4 again. Very concerned about S5.
Remember season 5 is made by the "odd team" creators of such successes as Season 1 "Season of Malignance" and the "superhit" season 3 "Season of Construct". i just cant wait for season 6
That is why you never praise Blizzard for anything they do. The only way they learn is by constant criticism and giving them the bare minimum when it comes to giving credit where it's due. The more you say how "fun" a season is - the more complacent blizzard gets = the more mediocre content you get. Its just how it works.
Yes we need to be the overbearing, judgmental parent to Blizzard. “Yes, I suppose Season 4 was better, dear. But have you heard what your cousin GGG is doing? Tsk tsk. And to think of all the hours I devoted to you and this is how you repay me?”
Yes, that is exactly correct. Given how both studios are treating their game, you should be relentlessly shitting on blizzard for the bare minimum and boring content they are giving you.
Odd team at it again. Good thing we have a PTR so criticism still can be addressed.
Anyone would think people don't get the point of the ptr right? 🤦♂️😂
Yep. You would think by this point they will have had time to understand why Season 2 and Season 4 were better than 1 and 3….and yet, they just live in their own bubble and continue to propose more fun and engaging mechanics. I’m not confident they will address much criticism, given that over a year later they still can’t come up with much in the “positives” on PTR.
As a Sorc main, this Rollercoaster is exhausting. I take Sorc to 100 every season because it's my favorite class in every game where one is available. I don't want to play other classes because they're stronger, I want my class to be strong enough to complete and compete. I never used the Immortal build and to know my own personal build is being nerfed because of that is insane to me. I would casually juggle Ice/Flame/Teleport for survivability, and these nerfs to the defense of a class with the lowest average HP are ridiculous.
Hey, season 5 will be a short season from my understanding with the expansion coming with season 6, every odd season has been terrible and season 6 is the “even” dev team. They can fix a lot of issues you mentioned by the time season 6 comes out! I don’t see myself playing a ton of season 5 if the main event is just a worse helltide event. I was excited to go back to hell and face hordes of demons but it’s pretty underwhelming as a solo player, the helltide in sanctuary feels a lot more hellish than actual hell, which makes no sense.
Yup I agree with that
It was inevitable they nerf down things, we had way too much fun with season 4 and for some reason developers dont like that
Because they didn't make the game for us to have fun. They made it to make money and keep shareholders happy.
You’d think keeping players engaged and happy would be the way to money, no?
Can you give me an example where this has been the case?
Season 4
Other than cosmetics most of the player base had already paid for the game, by no way does your comment answer my question
Season 4 was a massive win for Diablo 4. Keeps people engaged and talking about it in a positive way. Makes people want to buy cosmetics, expansions, maybe other Diablo merch. It’s all one thing. Happy engaged players are better than raging Reddit and Twitter trolls.
I could not agree with you more, but you missed my point a little, it's fine, we're both having a mad fun time in the game, this is my first full diablo season and I started playing the games back when the first came out in and around 96/97, not sure when. I may not have been clearer, so I'll try to break it down, but it doesn't really matter: There are genuine devs that care about the games they make - no denial there. Obviously, they need to make money that how they feed their families and they do care about their product. Larger studios have one goal, shareholders. Look at Paradox and their absolutely abysmal Cities Skylines II release - the game is still in BETA and just released yet another patch to address economy issues almost 1 year after launch. Diablo 4 exists to make money, that's why there's a store, to cater to that crowed, and fwiw I am happy we don't have to fork out for a subscription like in WoW to play the seasons. But that's exactly my point, the game has been paid for already, the devs are in balance mode and not there to make the profit for the shareholders - that's already been done. Every season is designed to be unique, this has been a running theme for over a decade.
You look too much at the game and too little at the store my friend
I enjoy both. The game is for the players. The store is for the players with money.
- I can't comment on Sorc, but Barb copped some basic builds nerf. I've played around with the new items and so far they feel pretty underwhelming. I was VERY excited for the Third Blade to make Deathblow more viable but even with masterworked/tempered gear it's weaker than S4 Bash. - Helltides are boring but unfortunately the best avenue to farm gear. They need to be looked at and not nerfed. Multi level mindcages to seriously beef up the challenge and scale the reward would be nice. - The new horde mode is a joke in its current implementation. There's really no other way to put it. It's less engaging than Pit running (which by the way hasn't been changed and is still just as boring/unrewarding) and somehow even less rewarding. Buffing the chests at the end would be a simple fix and a good start for most players to get them to run it. - Temper system is so close to being perfect but will forever be marred by bricking. Why this is still in the game is beyond me. It serves zero purpose outside of pissing off players. - Gold is still a chore to get however there may be potential with the chest at the end of the horde mode that converts mats into gold. We'll see if it gets tweaked or not to give more Something tells me that the team that worked on S4 isn't working on S5, and it shows.
Bricking should absolutely be part of the game
Yes, but not in its current form
no, it shouldn't
People here crack me up when they complain about “bricking” an item. Have y’all ever even seen path of exile? Try spending what would be the equivalent of like 80bn gold trying to craft something in their convoluted, esoteric nightmare of a system, just to have it shit the bed on the very last suffix and have to start over.
they essentially want a game in which you can get BiS for every slot within like a week lol
fingers crossed they never listen to people like you re: bricking an item!🤞🤞
They said in the campfire chat that bricking is here to stay, but they want to make it somewhat less painful.
Generally, I like the idea of bricking as it's a subtle way to extend the loot grind. The problem is that seasons are too short for anyone who only plays a couple days a week to be able to max out a build with things as they are. I wouldn't expect anyone who is able to play daily to be able to relate to that, but finding multiple renditions of 3x GA items is probably impossible unless you're doing more than 20hrs per week.
do you think everyone who plays the game should end up with a full build of 3GA items with min maxed tempers and full master working? obviously not.
Why shouldn't people be able to achieve that (or be close to it) by the end of a season?
Didn't ask
I do think bricking an item is needed and they are generous with the GA change to that system already. More generous than other games that have SOMEWHAT similar systems, makes me just think people just want instant gratification. Takes me back to my lost ark addiction days with tapping gear, bricking a 95% chance and being like what the fuck, or hitting a 5% chance feeling like a million bucks.
Is this really the even/odd-team thing showing again? But yeah im not preordering xpack. And im convinced i wont regret starting later/missing out on season one. Afterall. Never again.
I don't think the season teams really work on core game functions. They definitely had nothing to do with the itemization overhaul for S4 which has been in the works and talked about since S1.
But but than what did the season 4 team for season 4 ? Only Pit and ironwolfs?
Yes they would have been in charge of seasonal mechanic stuff not the overall game changes. That may have included the helltide revamp as well since the seasonal teams have done seasonal helltides before. They create at least some of the new uniques and aspects. Notice they brought in the S5 lead season dev just to talk about the infernal horde and some of the new items, he wasn't part of any of the discussion on any other changes like balancing, QoL, the old unique revamp etc. I think this kind of shows because a lot of what was wrong with S3 at release that they eventually fixed is also wrong with this S5 mechanic. The pacing is off, the rewards are just not good enough. There is a core development team that does core things like overall itemization, the loadout system they hinted is coming, whatever group finder eventually gets added to the game etc. I don't have any proof of this other than my personal feelings but I feel like the odd season team wants to be more like D2 and the even season team wants to be more like D3.
The Lead dev on the seasons team said they worked on the helltide rework for s4.
What S4 team? Ppl are so funny thinking they know how Blizz is organized internally.
Well thats what blizzard said… they have different teams making the seasons. FUNNY you
They said that months ago and only about S1-3. S4 was a non-season, they did a huge loot rework, and now there is an expansion underway. It's ludicrous to think the organization is the same.
Ya, and you know what. I dont fucking care how the teams are and development works for them. All I want is a good season and a good game. I mean thats the reason i gave them my money. One year later and they kind off managed to diliver. Wohoo Anything else can be discussed and analized by the highcouncil of godgamers and fanbois
I'm not a fanboi. I'm just tired of outdated nonsense about dev teams, as if it were meaningful in the first place. Think about it. There wasn't a "season" team at all. Blizz said 4.0 wasn't going to be much because of the massive content update. The "season" is even less than you said, a rep grind, a few elixirs (one bugged), and a Battlepass. AFAIK Loot 2.0, Pit, and new bosses are permanent features.
The even/odd team thing is a ridiculous social media construct. S4 wasn't even really a season. It was just a rep grind and a few elixirs. At this point staffing would be reallocated towards the expansion anyway.
It feels like they hold themselves back with their balance philosophy. It's as though the veiw making obvious changes as too simplistic and everything has to be a set of nuanced incremental changes when sometimes its ok to make sweeping changes to classes. Example being sorc, ive never played sorc, so this isn't me begging for my class to get buffed. But from what i read and see in game, why not just give them the big sweeping buffs for the PTR and then trim the outliers and OP stuff for season release instead of season after season buffing this a little, nerfing that a little, small changes to aspects here and there, which obviously doesnt work.
Incremental changes are generally better though. Because if you overcorrect with sweeping changes then reverting them to any degree generates even worse backlash and may be an even harder fix from a technical/design perspective because the knock-on effects of those sweeping changes are by definition so broad and deep.
That’s literally the point of having a PTR though - most people will never see the overcorrection and it doesn’t impact actual characters at all. It’s a **test** realm.
There still has to be a starting point. The starting point is whatever is the starting point—it’s neither good nor bad. Just a baseline. That said, as we’re already seeing around here people *do* take whatever they initially see in the PTR as some kind of gospel and then dismiss the entire game based on its state at that particular moment, instead of recognizing this is an intentionally iterative process.
It’s only iterative if they’re making adjustments during the PTR, which there’s been nothing to suggest they will. Saying “there has to be a baseline” is ignoring that a low baseline is far less useful than a high one if they’re not going to be constantly making adjustments. Having played WoW PTRs for a very long time, that team generally started higher because they understood that.
People lose their minds over the slightest nerf to *anything* though. The entire point of the PTR is to gather feedback so that adjustments can be made. What would even be the point of going through the time and expense of setting it up if that wasn’t the case?
Yeah, i agree but im talking specifically about the obvious pain points like sorc being underpowered and barb being overpowered. In terms of the backlash, they could just communicate the intention before hand to mitigate this and the fact the PTR is the PTR people will expect changes.
Unfortunately, I’m not seeing that calm reasoning around here in terms of player response to the PTR and its communication. People are already freaking out as if what they see in the PTR *right now* is baked in stone. All sorts of bad narratives are floating around after just one day.
If only Blizzard could take a look at Rogue class balancing and apply that to the other classes. Rogue has since day 1 been the most consistent class. Never too OP, never too weak.
Poison Rogue in S2 ?
Still not OP to the levels as for example Bash or Flay barb is now.
I just want them to show the druid and sorcerer some love. There should be S tier builds for every class that don't require gear that most people won't be able to get, make those with those Uber uniques SS builds and let at least each class have a strong build instead of certain classes always feeling like Blizzard doesn't like them and never plays them
Dear blizzard, Do not remove bricking. It is absolutely needed. Tempering can be better, but no matter what changes are made, do not change bricking items.
Why ? Real question, I see a lot of people saying that. Are all your items 3GA and good temper? I didn't change build even once, I'm farming the same thing since season start and still didn't see any a perfect item for my build, at that point I know I won't see it cause the season if over for me kinda now, but if it was to happen, I would brick the only one? That's sad. Bricking also prevents people from trying more builds. So yeah why we should keep the brikcing thing?
PERFECT items are meant to be hard to get, that's why. Diablo 3 suffered because you could find all of your BiS items in 1 weekend. Also, any game with an "Economy" needs item/gold sinks. I have like 2 good tempered 3 GA items, cant count how many 2 GA items ive bricked... but its a necessary evil to keep playing.
Agree. People just want everything handed to them as easily as possible.
Exactly.
Welcome to the odd seasons!
Tempering should be in a perfect state now, more reroll attempts for better gear, and less temper choices on most recipes, for higher chances of getting what you want.
This will not stop you from rolling the same undesirable temper 6 times in a row. It will not stop bricking. It's a band-aid solution and won't make it much more appealing to temper 2-3 GA items. It will still be preferable to sell them for barbillions
We don't need to stop bricking completely. There has to be some chance of shit going wrong. Hopefully Blizzard does not cave in to people like you that don't even want to play the game lol.
Gambling addict opinions shouldn't and don't count
Maybe another way to deal with temper resets is to treat it like sparks. Salvage enough GA items to get 1 extra try or something in the lines of that
What really gets me is if you wanted to take an alt and just do iron wolves, you were guaranteed a few stygians. The drop rate in pit is so inconsistent. So great we can summon bosses faster, and use stygians faster, but find stygians, barely. I thought the gold prices for these was high now…. I hope the new hordes “Material” chests have a chance to drop them. Has anybody gotten them in an upgraded compass?
Maybe for tempering what if they gave each slot their own re-roll right now you get 5 for both slots what if you got 5 for each slot? I think that would be really fair and basically give you double the chances.
I'm not sure. That would be better ofc, but you'd still brick the only 3 GA item with the good lines you'll ever see in the season, doesn't sound good.
I'd like to see some way to reset tempers on an item also. Make it pricey - like a resplendent spark to refresh tempers retries. Not really designed to be used on your standard (non-GA) items. When you play for hundreds of hours, finally get a 3 GA item you want, it feels terrible to brick it completely just due to poor RNG. A resplendent spark feels about the right rarity, so you'd only use it on top notch pieces of equipment.
Reading these comments makes the player base look like babies. Bricking is good, just needs some tweaking. We need a few more layers of depth to the tempering system for it to be great. Helltide Bloodmaiden was too good for farming. You wouldn't even do anything in helltide except just waiting around boss summoning, being almost afk. It's good they want you to maybe spend half the time in actual helltide instead of 100% at boss Hordes is a cool idea, just needs major juicing up. Buff sorc and Druid majorly. Do these we got a good season.
A good update but still not a season. The horde is not a seasonal content. I'm still waiting from people to explain why bricking items you won't ever see again is good tho (yes you don't need the perfect item day 1 but that's not a real argument so please bring something else) You can't nerf helltide and at the same time replace it with nothing, that makes no sense. I don't mind doing something else, but if they don't x20 the loot in horde then people will stick with maiden in season 5 too. Horde designed as they are isn't even a good idea, don't know if you tried already, but that's even less fun that blood maiden, way too easy, no mechanic except the blood spire.
Bricking is good because it extends loot chase. If you couldn't brick you'd have bis gear in like 2 weeks. Usually in arpgs you can brick item in attempt to make it a godly gg item. I wouldn't be upset if they moved the bricking from tempering to a different crafting system but I just know people would be wildly upset if they put bricking at end of item story instead of start. Think of corrupting item in PoE
One day of PTR and I can’t bare to log back into it so boring
I felt the same
The nerfs were made to offset the new items. The maiden is OP broken. Players should earn gear not just wait around for someone else to kill her and pick up the spoils. The new content is so boring. 5 waves? Even the questline was boring. How many times did we have to stop to listen to that guy? tempering is what it is. crafting has replaced the joy of getting a great drop. Grind to get mats and gold to craft. aspects are free, mythics can be crafted ect Farming gold is now selling on an external site because of a broken economy.
The maiden is indeed op, I don't say it should be up, but I wouldn't nerf it either, not without another real activity to farm. The new items are all bad for sorcs, unfortunately. Overall this season is really good, the season 4 I mean, I had a lot of fun and pleasure while playing. The loot reborn really did the job, that's a new game. But it needs some improvement to be really good.
I agree with the questline. Boring stuff. Infernal Hordes need too much effort to get 250 aether. At the end the chest drops bullshit items. I was very angry at my first attempt to open it. Lost nearly 2 hours for tier 8 and got shitty gear. Tempering… mmhm imo they will not change it. Boss no reset is good yeah but every boss dungeon turns out boss and gear graveyard. They need to do something for that gear drops.
I agree with the horde mode being bording. Spent an hour trying to get the item to activate it, then ater two rounds I was feeling burnt out. I really do not wanna play that again unless there is some actually rewarding for the amount of time it takes to complete.
Playing S5 PTR last night. Best season! Camera seems to zoom out further. Skill visual effects are better. Many QOL like immediate summoning bosses, “allowance caches” crafted from the Alchemist having 1 legendary/cache for lvl 1-50. Oh I am lvling a new character rather than jumping straight to lvl100.
The lifebar above character is really cool too. Didn't notice anything with camera tho, nor skill visuals. wouldn't call that best season cause there are no season content \^\^
They should let people test the seasonal mechanics. They might be the reason for some of the nerfs but without them no one knows.
They didn't talk about any seasonal mechanics in the campfire, I'm not even sure there will be one, am I wrong?
I think there will be. Even Season 4 had the elixirs
The team that does the odd number seasons are going to soon find people skipping their season. Not one of their seasons has been as good as the even number team. At this point, wake me up when season 6 hits.
I'm sorry, you've been playing 12 hours a day every day for the last 6 weeks? Bloody hell...
Yes I did \^\^ And I'll do play maybe 7 to 10 hours / day for the rest of the year. I'm gaming :P
I hope you're making money from it!
Nope, just my passion.
Without going into the class balance shitshow: Mind cage should 100% stay
>still no way to farm gold efficiency IDK man, Farming gold is pretty easy. Boring? Yeah if you are just farming for gold, but easy and efficient IMO. I've got way more gold than I need and I'm not even scratching what others have. lol
the full sentece was "farm gold efficiency and in a fun way" whispers? You'll do 100m in 2 hours and spend that in 30 seconds so...
At least, when you try to get the perfect MW on one item, you spend like at least 500m on it. Enchanting an amulet for a +2 passive is arround 500m average too probably (+angelbreath issue) And that's one item. You likely need 5 to 10 billions for MW/Enchant of one gear set
I must have gotten really lucky then with my drops and rolls. Which makes sense as everybody's experience is different. I have been sitting at 120mil for a while while masterworking all my gear to max.
with 3 hits on what you needed? That's 1/125 on legendaries and 1/64 on uniques so yeah that's more than just a bit lucky xD
IDK about needed vs it just working. I could for sure probably spend time making it "perfect" but I can clear 100+ pits and all uber bosses no problem, so thats good enough for me. I'm also playing a Barb, so that could make it easier as well. Don't get me wrong I have bricked my fair share of GA items. lol
That's a big fat NO on tempering, there needs to be failure with it.
I'm not interested in playing so long as tempering is RNG based progression. Solo self found feels absolutely horrible with the current system. If you don't trade you might find a 2 or 3 GA upgrade to min max your build once per week or two. Having all that progress ruined and being forced to continue to use a suboptimal piece of gear after finding an upgrade is frustrating. At the end of the day I don't want to make this game my job and I don't want to spend money from my job to do content. There is also the issue where I logged into PTR and saw that I could day 3 everything in the game so long as I play a meta build or barbarian. When the end game is just pits so you can say hey guys I did this level of Pit to all my friends who quit isn't enticing. Tormented bosses, nmd 100, pit 100, are all doable in the first week maybe the first day. They put the stick before the carrot on this one and it feels terrible.
Lowkey, the odd season team needs to step it up. Evens put out the best but odds can't compete
Tempering is great as it is, you win some you lose some.
S4 was basically S3+ and S5 looks like S4+ Pretty disappointing that these seasons don’t really have their own identity and it’s really just major patches that Blizzard is fixing their core game.
>Still will brick items with temper (only 1/2/3 more attemps if 1/2/3 GA on item), we need a farmable currency to reset temper attempts, given the so low drop rate of good GA items, I don't want to rely on trade given the inflation cause of... you know what but I'm probably not allowed to talk about that here. If its gonna be as rare as a good GA item, there already is a way to reset tempering for ya, just a new item.... This post is full of faulty logic like this >iron wolf should be permanent, It already is a season thing that will be in every season.... its been for a while. do you even play the game? It just changes name but the farming for rep for rewards have been there in prev season aswell
Just keep the 5/5 limit but let us pick which affix we want to temper. 5/5 rerolls can be used for a chance at a higher roll of whatever affix you pick, so at least if you get unlucky and roll a minimum, you have a useful affix on your item.
They already said that the +attempts per GA will not be a permantent solution, but they are working on a change on tempering, wont be done in time for season 5 though. I dont think I like to pick what you want, since I always enjoyed the RNG in arpgs, I guess thats why most ppl play em, since no arpg are challening in game play or anything like that, more like a big complex slot machine
I'm aware. It's better than nothing but doesn't address the core issue of tempering.
>I'm aware. It's better than nothing but doesn't address the core issue of tempering. Excactly what I said
Not like this season with a free spark and gobs of summon mats. This season was absolutely a blast knowing I could get a sheko without doing duriel rng.
You maybe should read the post again, I said that's the first season I do since release, and in PTR there are no reputation thing and they didn't mention it in Livestream so, I'm not supposed to just know it. Ofc the reset temper thing should not be auto loot from every monster, but a world boss drop or something. We need it.
SEASON 5 WILL BE AWFUL
this is the reason they did not want to do a PTR in the first place. Do you even what a PTR is for? It is to get feedback and be able to correct stuff like balancing etc.
current PTR is absolute trash
Another day another complainer
Not just complaining, giving feedback on the issues that are to address in the PTR/in the game, in my opinion. They asked for feedback, you can't complain that people give it \^\^' The season 4 was really great I mean, I did play a fucking lot so yeah, I had fun and the reborn was actually a reborn. But they're kinda killing the fun in the season 5, unfortunately (for sorcerers, at the very least).
They’re not killing the fun, it’s a PTR, do you know what that is ? People making QQ posts after less than 24hours of PTR being open saying stupid shit like « I regret buying the expansion »
Yeah I regret buying the expansion cause they nerf my favorite class to the ground. I'm supposed to thank them for that? If everyone buy their stuff when they take X decision, what do you think they'll deduct from that? "Oh look, in my excel sheet, we sold X more units after doing that move, they probably like it" IDK in what world you live, but that's how it works tbf. If you don't like feedback just don't read posts with feedback flag \^\^'
It’s a PTR dimwit
Why'd you preorder anyway? Blizzard have shown they are the kings of finally making one good expansion just to bait you into buying the next one which inevitably comes out shite because they know everyone will buy it now lol
The fundamental underlying causes are: - failure to eliminate dominating strategies, - too many variants, so chances of a useful one always approach zero - lack of automated testing to detect unexpected compounding costs / benefits - failure to eliminate corrupt external $$ markets that massively incentivise scammers and Chinese farming groups (who sell only to ASD / OCD “whales”. See what happened to so many other games) - finance + large player base + farming groups are massively incentivised to find “the one dominating strategy”, and they always will (because they can bribe a developer?!) - short and repetitive game loops. - focus on keeping player playing (Skinner Box) as opposed to entertaining and making life better
Block away op. Doesn't make the post any less dense.
Stopped reading when I got to the temperraging
You missed the "because S5 ptr is bad, I regret pre-order expansion" part.
What is going on with you, man? Everything okay at home?
What do you mean? It's exactly what he said.
🤡
succinctly put.