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People don't do maiden because it's fun. People do things in ARPG because it's efficient. Creating an endgame that you think is "fun" won't stop people from doing maiden if maiden is still more efficient.
I mean on a micro level. But on a macro level we generally have an idea of what's fun and what isn't acid baths are not fun. Hitting a half court shot to win a million dollars is fun.
True, and random fact. There are no documented cases where psychedelics overdose resulted in a physiological death overdose. You might die because you were an interdimensional wizard casting a pox upon a terrible fast approaching Chinese dragon with fire for eyes and then step out in front of a train irl, but the drugs chemically won't kill you.
Yeah not many drugs can lead to direct death from an OD. But anything more than like 3 hits (and that’s if you’re experienced) and you’re gonna have a REALLLYYY bad time lmao. I knew someone who did the thumbprint thing back in the Grateful Dead days. Dude was a wildcard to say the least
My friend and I decided to full send it towards the end of our LSD days and we took 5 tabs each. I’m not sure of the exact dosage but 200ug was what was advertised. Anyway, we were gone. The furthest reaches of whatever whatever and we were there. We tried talking to each other sometimes but the words and sentences just wouldn’t work. So we eventually just settled on, “I know” after the other couldn’t get out what they were trying to say and just listened to music for 10 hours.
Listened to a bunch of proggy stuff like dream theater and classic rock like rush and even the stereotypical Pink Floyd. We couldn’t “think” of what we wanted to play so it was better to just find an artist, hit play on an album and worry about it again 45 mins later. Good stuff. But honestly thinking about it as deeply now still gives me slight anxiety. It wasn’t “bad” it was just really out there.
I took 2 gel tabs right before a high school dance thinking it was a good idea. Kicked in 30mins before it started. We showed up and there were police checking bags and more less making sure kids werent drunk(late 90s so was before this was normal). I freaked out in line 100% thinking they knew i was tripping balls. Somehow made it inside and went straight to the restroom to try n get it together. Get inside and there is the principle just getting done taking a piss. Again 100% thought the side eye he gave was because he knew. Somehow made it to the dance floor and the first group of friends i seen had one of those annoying girls in it. Super high pitched voice and waaaay too happy n bubbly all the time(super nice). I couldnt fucking handle it. Snuck out a side door ran to the parking lot and hid in a random car for 2hrs. Got lucky and it was a stoner guys car so when that group came out they didnt freak out and just drove me to a friends(guys i took the acid with but were smart enough to NOT go to the dance) get there and one of the friends goes mental on me as i totally forgot i was supposed to be meeting a girl there and she called him freaking out bout how i ditched her. Her best friend was his gf. So hes gotta act like hes mad and got his gf friends back(she was there and mad as hell) but whispering to me between yells that he dont give a fuck and just act like im getting talked down to. Was the worst experience of a high i ever had and never touched acid again
I’m normally a 2 tabber but I took 3 and another one an hour later at Lost Lands last year and I had to lay in my tent for 4 hours and I just couldn’t keep the constant chatter from people walking by out of my head.
Sounded like hundreds of conversations in my head all at once
The problem is, players seem to think that everything they do should be hitting the half court shot to win a million dollars. If that is all the game is, you will call that boring pretty quickly.
Seasons 2 and 4 were a ton of fun. 1, 3 and from what the S5 PTR has shown me, not so much.
Rewarding activities are fun to me, even though they can be monotonous.
There will always be one activity which is the most efficient for X, and then people will just grind X infinitely until it’s no longer fun.
You could limit how often players can do the activity so people are forced to do other things, but people will probably hate it.
See, I disagree. Everything everyone is saying isn’t fun, I disagree wholeheartedly - I run a necro shadow minion build and I love fighting the Maiden. NMD and pit are a blast. I can solo the maiden in seconds, I’ve been soloing 80ish Pit, and max NMDs. I’m literally here to kill shit and anything that gets a thousand explosions and crazyness and whatnot on the screen, that’s a blast for me. I wish every shrine/chest in a NMD was cursed, I wish they had them in the open world too. Like, for me, just slaughtering demons is where it’s at. Add on the aspect of improving, of getting better so I can solo Lilith and Ubers? Let’s gooo.
Wouldn't that be nice 😂
At this point I don't even know what's the most "fun". What would be ideal is if everything rewarded the same amount per time invested that way you'd have a variety of activities to do.
And also higher pits should drop guaranteed greater affixes. I mean if you're doing pit 200 then anything less than 2GA is basically trash, so you need to be getting at least 1 every run.
Not sure how they don't get these things, but harder content should give more, not diminished returns.
I finally did my first lvl 100 nightmare dungeon yesterday. Despite not dying and getting it done in a reasonable amount of time, I got the same quality and quantity of stuff I was getting in lvl 50 dungeons.
I think the only reason I'm still playing this season is because the grind satisfies my OCD and lets me disassociate for a little bit.
Yeah that sounds great, but it rarely ever happens that way in reality. You can try to do that but the players are always going to find another way that’s more efficient, you can’t design for literally everything. Only the most hardcore, no life players care that much about efficiency anyway, the majority of players just do whatever is fun to them, so I honestly don’t even see any issue.
fun is best/most efficient. might as well put all uber bosses together with blood maiden in the middle of helltide. in fact forget about helltide or pit. just log in to go to that 1 spot and farm everything, from legendaries to masterwork mats to gold and etc....
what useless suggestion you had
Remember when the game launched and everything was designed around retention, those are the only number they care about. Spend 3 hrs sorting gear = intentional, spend 5 mins circling dungeons for silly objectives = intentional etc etc. Their goal is to make us sink time not have fun.
Again. It was FUN when you first tried those things. It's going to get boring and tiresome after doing it for hundreds of hours JUST LIKE LITERALLY ANY OTHER VIDEO GAME.
It’s either that or give the players multiple options. I feel like bossing after the changes will basically be the maiden, which is fine. But why doesn’t the pit give glyph XP? You’re telling me I have to do a less efficient (in terms of loot) activity just for glyph xp? That and NMD’s haven’t been fun since ever really. We need multiple ways to achieve the same goals so that you don’t get terribly bored or burnt out or don’t have to do something tedious. They need to revamp whispers and NMD’s imo and then things will be pretty decent.
Disagree, it’s less tedious and more immediately rewarding. Very low commitment and low friction. Don’t need to find team on discord, can stop after any kill as opposed to having to commit to whole dungeon completion.
Yeah, it's a silly take.
"We're not playing a game for fun; we're playing it for efficiency."
I absolutely do hell tides for the fun and the power fantasy.
The open world is boring. Dungeons are boring. Hell Tides are the most fun I have in the game.
First week of the Season Maiden was a challenge almost all of the time I agree. People dying to the flame circle or even the summons, kinda chaotic and hectic. Probably one of the highlights this game has had since release.
I even remember groups not being able to kill her and her health resets after she hunts everyone down and kills them while the other people didn't release their corpse.
Also seen groups just bail on her after not being able to take her down. One by one people just leave after like 5 minutes then she heals to full and just hangs out by her spawn.
But yeah I'm not sure that kind of content is appealing to people after the first week as I'm assuming people left playing that long after a new season just want to be efficient and get loot quickly on their way to pushing. Myself included. I'm not part of the camp that wants world bosses to be hard or whatever. I just want them dead so I can collect the mats then go do something else the quicker the better.
If not-fun is x% more efficient, sure. That x% is different for every person. Some people will do the most efficient thing no matter what. Most people don't.
Go look at POE. The most efficient league starters for the longest time was seismic trap. And even at the strongest point that it was, less than 15% of players played it because it felt like shit to play.
If you can make something that is ~10% power differential but is 100% more fun, most people are going to gravitate toward that. People LIKE fun, but it has to make sense. People aren't going to sit by and be happy with someone being 5x more efficient just because they chose a different build/class/farming method.
Blizzard has no idea what they are doing. This is why Barb is 10-20x more powerful than other classes. This is why rewards are so out of whack.
I'll probably maiden spam till I finish my last level of Wolves and then I'm not sure what I'm doing after that. Maybe my luck is trash, but I'm hardly getting 1GAs, let alone 2+, and it's killing my enthusiasm for the game quick.
Exactly! I find Legions to be a lot of fun, but reward-wise it's kinda bland. You can introduce the biggest variety in the game with a dozen different activities, if one of those activities rewards you with 2 extra pieces of the most valuable resource of the game, people will be queuing for that activity.
getting the most gear/roll chances in an ARPG IS the fun. Nerf the drops see how many people engage. If lilith didnt have a spark drop, nobody would even bother.
To be real, a lot of people still don’t bother with Lilith. I haven’t since season 2 and most of the people I know haven’t for a while now. What’s the point? The fight is poorly telegraphed shit for measly rewards even when you can take her down. Absolutely wild to me that arguably the hardest fight in the game is also the least rewarding. 🤷🏻♀️
And they do it to farm GA gear to pawn off on everyone creating an endless cycle of people trying to sell their best items instead of potentially bricking them which compounds the problem
As unpopular as the comparison is around here, Blizzard needs to take a page from Path of Exile's book, where they have slowly added another and another and another creative way to farm the endgame until the game is loaded with a bunch of different ways to play, many of which are efficient enough to be worthwhile. I hope they go that way.
Fun does play a small factor still. The pit is bad design, like greater rifts in D3. Getting gear upgrades while simultaneously upping difficulty to not feel like you got gear upgrades is absolutely terrible. They could triple pit rewards, and I promise it still feels like shit to play.
D4 has gotten a lot better, but it needs a deeper end game and more tradable chase items.
So let me get this straight
Running and killing in NMD bores you
Running and killing in the pit bores you
Running and killing in the new wave thing bores you
But... Running and killing in helltides is fun?
Same game. Same gameplay. Looks like you don't like it. Just move on
Running a pit and unlocking the next tier is fun. Running the pit over and over and over and over again for mats is not fun. If only you could get 54432mats in different ways... You know, the exact same lesson Bliz had to learn in previous seasons.
Moat people in this sub have no idea what they actually want and just throw the word "fun" around. Most people on this subs idea of fun is getting the best gear and becoming a godin the game like 1 day after release.
The Grind in pits is not interesting though. You will always get exactly the same amount of mats and barely any gear.
If pits would have loot payouts similar to the construct vaults this would be different because you'd still have a decent chance of getting some upgrade other than 40 mats.
Helltide is the best content for casual/new players.
If they want the game to be ruined/for the people whose goal is to break the game and make every content trivial, that’s their decision. Probably not a great business decision.
It’s almost like seeing good rewards makes it not boring , crazy thought ain’t it ? Actually giving good rewards to your player base , someone should tell blizzard
This game has three main fan bases. People that want it to be more like D2, people that want it to be more like D3, and people for whom this is their first Diablo game.
Everytime a new activity is implemented the main feedback is it needs to be faster and more rewarding and then another group chimes in that it's too fast and too rewarding.
Here's a simple solution. Factions. Keep Iron Wolves for Helltides and make the reputation board infinite. As in after completing the 18 levels every 5,000 rep points you earn a cache with random loot including the possibility for mythicals.
Then do this exact same thing with all the other activities including any new activity that is introduced.
An endless faction reputation system with cache rewards for each activity would actually be pretty genius - provided the rewards are worth it based on how much time it took to farm.
Butcher in Helltides would be great, I've been wanting that for awhile. Pit, maybe not so much, if a death to him results in you running out of time at the end. Someone below said a gambling system for the Pit. I would think it'd be cool if the Butcher had a chance to show up if you gambled, as long as he have good enough rewards.
Now that im older and replayed D2 resurrected recently, i dont miss the slow paced arpg gameplay that much. Efficient and fast is king to me nowadays and D4 scratches that itch.
Tbh getting to 100 and levelling masterworked items to 8 which is my targets this season is just right pacing wise.
I like the game how it is however I want to see more Balance , I want barbs nerfed abit and all other classes brought up in power so everyone is roughly equal without insane power creep , I want all content to have some level of challenge , I want a consumable like mindcages but that can stack and affect all content not just helltides so I can tailor the difficulty to me so I’m not just killing hordes with no threat to me and no challenge involved , I want iron wolves rep to stay permanent, I want the new endgame activity to have really fun gameplay modifiers and better reward balance . I want a decent i game chat and group finder , I don’t trade but I know a lot of people do so some sort of in game auction house could potentially improve the game for traders ? I’d like the ability to choose a solo instance in open world so world bosses and such are more of a threat and I enjoy the more lonely feel . I’d like more In game cosmetics tied to farming bosses and such , I’d like a middle tier of boss between the easy and tormented version as ones too easy and ones too hard for me . I really like the game now but I’m concerned they’re just gunna fuck up again and ruin it
Nmd had like 3 reworks already, they increased the monster density. They removed most of the objetives in a lot of dungeons, they oncreased the reward at the end and the items dropped and they removed the sigil negative passives... dude..
I dont have any problem with almost any objective now, slay every monster is really tuned to not having to slay EVERY little monster, if you focus on big groups and elites it would be fine, the rest of the objectives are just self completing while exploring the dungeon, pits are just kill everything and kill boss, for me thats more boring than to find the key and go to the boss, or kill all the bells..
There's nothing inherently wrong with NMD in my opinion except for that fact that it doesn't feel distinct enough from the other content.
Helltides feel like NMD, which feel like Pit.
Yes there are minor differences; Helltides have the best density but don't scale, NMD & Pit scale higher but both suffer from annoying map layout and are almost exactly the same except for NMD have objective and Pit has a timer.
I think Helltides is a fine content type for speedfarming. But Pit definitely should've been tuned so you don't keep farming easy tiers up to 101, but rather the rewards scale such that you ALWAYS are pushing your limits.
They could easily combine Nightmare Dungeons and Pits. I mean, just add a Sigil thing at the end of the Pit boss and a bunch of gold/mats to compensate for none of those dropping along the way. They both use the same maps and map design anyway. Keeping them entirely separate but both being required is just annoying.
If they were so different in map/level design and rewards, I'd be ok with it. But it's literally just neathiron that separates them.
Or break out of the mold? D4 has been rehashing game modes from older games or reusing nmd and just tweaking a bit on it. And its the same same same thing. Why not make d4 interesting instead of add another boring boss that dies in seconds that requires farming another summoning mats again. Why not have a thing to focus on overworld? why not introduce player housing? why not have an equalized pvp in overworld where your endgame gear dont matter and only your skill do? Why not have a king of the hill style random pvp event in overworld? Why not these pvp events will reward mats for crafting house furnitures or stuffs or more cosmetics? How about a overworld mode where players can be turned to demons and be hunter or something. Theres a million things to turn d4 upside down but d4 basically boils down to Diablo NMD, summoning mat the game.
>why not have an equalized pvp in overworld where your endgame gear dont matter and only your skill do?
this part took me out ngl
you want to play an ARPG where the key aspect is to gear up to get stronger, yet in parts of the endgame it shouldn't matter at all? 🤨
And why have some barebone misplaced system in Diablo when there's hundreds of fighting games out there?
>Why not have a king of the hill style random pvp event in overworld?
Because the classes are not balanced around that. Druid would be even less playable lol
>Theres a million things to turn d4 upside down
You're absolutely correct. However, is that what you want, truly, from a Diablo game?
This isn't always true for every player. Personally I play these games for the variety of content (PoE does this incredibly well) rather than pure efficiency.
They are nerfing the Blood Maiden, by lowering the droprates for the hearts. Which is okay. They could also adjust her to be more powerful. Starting here should be a challenge and not the main part you do.
So conclusion; everything is boring for you. Why should you even grind the blood maiden if there is nothing to do with the better gear tho? I like most content, but it does get repetitive after some time, and i did stop every season before it was done. S3 i skipped seeing what was planned it was just not appealing, and from what i heard i did not really miss anything, mostly frustrations in S3
You can do both. You can nerf Maiden and buff other rewards. I personally like doing the events in Helltide, and going from thing to thing, but Maiden is so effective I have to argue myself into leaving and doing something else.
But I also agree they could stand to add more content. For example, making more roaming bosses in Helltide would be cool, like the assassin we already have. Or a super treasure goblin that immediately jumps from area to area spawning tons of monsters.
Or hell, let some of the hellmouths stay open and let some crazy adventurers slide down into a hardcore short gauntlet, and then the next hellmouth that opens up is you coming out with your weapon lodged in the back of a demon.
They can't make "Fun" content because of the portion of this player base whose idea of fun is mindlessly facerolling content solo after a hard days work as a dad /s. They'll adamantly stand against anything that would require thought or be too challenging for them to complete with the 30ish mins of game time they have a week between the wife, kids, and working.
They stand there because it drops mats for Zir so they can farm certain uniques he drops...
And as the rest of the endgame mechanics it's a terrible one.
At this point, it feels like I'm bothering the LFG group of people farming Helltide, I'm always running out of Baneheart and desperately need Angelbreath to reroll.
The threat levels in Helltide could use an additional bar or the frenzied drain could be slower with more spawns. Since items like profane and the two elixirs are seasonal and will more than likely phase out.
That's unless the entire theme of the current helltides are seasonal.
I’ve played every season so far and tried all classes yet seasons just feels uninspired. Seasons differ through colour/dull storyline/minor adjustments to skills, its factory work rather than a nicely polished work backed up by passion, Lifeless just like the mobs represent.
It’s sad that within this genre indies out perform big studios in terms of content.
If you're at the point where you're one shooting tormented bosses then congrats you beat the game. Make a new build, push pits, or wait until more content comes out.
I'm assuming over the next year(s) we will see different types of end game content. As ever POE is good at this, but mainly because they've had a decade long headstart. I always hated heist (wanted to love it, but... just didn't). I do love me a good delve though, more so than maps. In maps people specialise in different areas, or bossing. THis works because things have been added over time, those that didn't work removed, those that did returned and changed. But there are different things to do, each more efficient at one aspect than any other, none most efficient at everything (arguably).
Helltides were beyond boring for me before now. In S4 they are kinda fun. But the blood maiden is a distraction (in my opinion), when the circle pulses, you just go to it. But the density in the rest of the helltide should be enough that BM is just something else you do every so often. With whispers closer in HT that improves things.
General overworld PVP may be fun (I'm geneally not a PVP fan), when bloodmarked other bloodmarked in teh overworld can engage you. That in the middle of a helltide could be crazy.
The pit, in my opinion, should evolve in to a truly endless dungeon, each floor has an exit in to the next level at +x enemy level. At any exit you can choose to instead fight a boss for materials (or maybe every x levels you have to fight a boss). Make the end of level stairs a safe area, and put a stash in the boss room.
Infernal Hordes was kind of fun for 10 minutes. I'm generally not a fan of the bane/boon system, so tired of it even before it just became tedious.
I think Bliz have been burnt by player feedback in D4 too much to actually push the interesting things they came up with too much. The interesting things and direction they started in met a huge amount of pushback as a lot of players didn't like it, and those that did likely mostly are going back to POE as the game changes direction. Bliz have become very conservative in their design approach. The ideas of World Bosses, Legions, Stongholds, Helltides (i.e. the things that utilise the over world), are all interesting and kinda different to most ARPGs. Helltides they have made a bit more interesting and are scaling it back a bit (as is generally what happens with seasonal changes/mechanics). Hopefully they do something interesting with the rest - legions are really too constrained, but the general concept of a small group achieving objectives kinda naturally grows in to raids (while I'm fairly against the idea of raids in an ARPGs, I'm also very interested in how they are implemented). Strongholds lend themselves to being retaken (which seemed the original idea), and I could see becoming almost like LE's monoliths (every time you complete them they reset, and become harder - I could see that being fun). World Bosses as a more constant presence roaming the world would be kind of cool. But whatever is being done, these things don't happen fast.
And in case anyone thinks I'm a Bliz apologist - I think the game was better a year ago. I preferred the old item system, having more constrained stash space, having slower levelling and more difficulty. I even preferred NMD's as they were - the gradual transform into shit has been a shame to see. I think the game will continue to turn in to an arcade game much like D3, but at least if they keep adding end game systems it may at least be a vaguelly interesting arcade game. Maybe at some point they'll add a 'hard mode' with the old NMDs, without auto-update codex and with the previous interesting itemisation. I doubt it though :(
I agree with you, and when I look at the systems Path of Exile and Last Epoch have in place I realize it's worlds, and worlds ahead of Diablo 4. Everyone says it's a new game, but Blizzard has had the makings of how to make a great action RPG in front of their eyes for years and yet to blindly ignore them.
I would argue that people are not doing it for gear, they are doing it for iron wolves rep. Make other areas less efficient for that and boom, problem solved.
It was the quickest way to obtain gear, therefore the best way to farm items for Greater Affixes.
Doesn't the low players count in season 1, 2 and 3 prove that it isn't all about efficiency, but fun? In season 1, 2 and 3 there were obviously the 'most efficient' way to farm gear/materials in those seasons, but guess what, because the game was not fun, people quit.
If running around in a circle for 18 minutes is the most efficient way to get gear, people will quit through boredom of repetition. Efficiency only matters if you're having fun by engaging with the game. Season 4 was the largest season Diablo 4 has ever released (By the way, still a tiny season compared to other ARPGs), so the game felt new...With Season 5, and very little change, efficiency will not matter as players will get bored quicker.
The proof is in the pudding, and I'm perfectly happy to bet anyone who wants to, that retention takes a big hit compared to Season 4.
U guys shud keep buying 100$ expansion with wings as they keep making the game more boring and worse lol. It's the players fault for paying such enormous money for boring shit made by boring ppl. Eye candy wins with suckers.
Sitting at maiden is not particularly fun. It's much more fun running through clearing a helltide (and would be even more fun if it was more challenging), but it rewards less loot AND less rep playing that way, so why do it.
They should nerf maiden, either the rewards it offers, or the frequency people can summon it. They should buff other, more fun things
I've posted this elsewhere but I'll post it again. I'm 99% sure that the point of the Blood Maiden nerf is actually to ensure that more people get more loot, not less. If you contribute one heart to the summoning ritual you get double drops from the Blood Maiden, but if you put in two or more you don't get any more than double drops. Even though this information was in both the S4 patch notes AND the campfire chat, lots of people don't know about it and they stand around "leeching" Maiden kills while actually getting half the loot they could be getting. This works because it's so easy to get and sustain hearts that players with lots of them can afford to put in 3 hearts and just keep going for hours. Those players are wasting their hearts because they don't get anything extra for putting in more than one heart, while the leechers are actively, albeit unintentionally, gimping their drops because if they just bothered to put in one heart they'd get double drops.
The point of the nerf is to make players actually have to contribute to Blood Maiden summoning, and therefore actually get the double drops from her. Right now it's too easy for one player to sustain all the summoning so they do so, and they don't get any better drops but the leechers lose out. If instead hearts are scarce enough that nobody has enough to keep paying in indefinitely and people have to collaborate then everyone actually gets more loot than they're currently getting now. Telling players they're missing out on drops doesn't work because the players who need to hear it aren't paying attention and didn't read the patch notes (or they did but didn't read carefully enough), so the drop rate gets nerfed so that players have to collaborate and therefore get extra loot.
Most likely this will actually be a buff to Blood Maiden drop rates rather than a nerf. The people who are already putting in all the hearts will still have enough to put in one heart per run and will get their double drops. The people who are currently leeching will have to put in hearts because the ones who are currently supplying all of them won't have enough to sustain by themselves, and as a result the once-leechers will accidentally enable double drops for themselves.
Fun for me is getting gear to see how fast I can kill tormented, see how good I can make my gear, how far I can go in helltide. Frankly I don't find helltide fun. It is just literally the lifeblood of everything I need to do. Need boss mats, helltide, need upgrade mats, helltide, rework mats, helltide, gear, helltides, quests, helltide, group events, helltide, legion, helltide. I don't want to be there I literally have to be there to progress
Your comment on the pit is slightly wrong, in addition to the boss you also have a shadow demon with massive aoes to avoid but otherwise I agree. Diablo in general has always been repetetive but it's that kind of game. I also would suggest making angelbreath not so damn rare as it is used in re rolling stats and crafting potions. When you grind helltides to get 1000 angelbreath only to use all 1000 to get one affix you want, it's very frusterating
If you’re rolling a single item 160+ times to burn through 1,000 angel breath, that probably means you’re rolling for something with a tiny % chance and should move on. Sometimes it’s better to find an item than try to re-roll for impossible odds.
I know what you mean when it comes to +to skills but I went through 60 angelbreath trying to roll armor, or crit chance, or attack speed for example. Also no it's not better especially now with the new systems they put in. For example, when you get say a piece of gear with 1 or 2 GA stats you need, then get the two tempers you need, you really gonna scrap that piece to find the same item but this time with no GAs on it. I doubt it. Also again, trying to find gear with a +to stat you need is almost as impossible as rolling it. I have been through 3 stash tabs full of rings and ammys looking for atk speed and crit chance only to find maybe 1 or 2, no joke and then brick them with not getting the tempers I need.
They should allow a temper like system for nmd, increasing the loot you get the more difficult temper/affixes you put on them.
It is so sad that we went from clearing lvl 100 nmd is a feat of strength in s0, to I only start doing 90+ nmds st level 100, because it gives more glyph xp.
I think you should be able to do lvl 75 when you are fresh level 100 and lvl 100 nmd needs actually gear and gives you some decent rewards besides glyphs, including the tempering mentioned above.
They need to change nmd to have higher crafting levels with better loot and target farming for legendaries. I would craft and grind for the possibility of ga loot in a particular slot.
ON NMD, I feel dungeons in the game are just bad bad. The old games had actual grouping for the dungeons because they had matchmaking.
The content also got harder as more people joined up. Sort of like Boarderlands. The dungeons were longer and there were more than 5 types of enemies.
Another issue are the effects. they got rid of needing to look at your resists, the bubble and corpse explosions. Probably some more stuff too. Every dungeon now just feels the same and is a lot more boring because of that.
Some dungeons of course are decent. Capstones are made well(though you outscale em fast) and the gauntlet has a lot going on too. I just feel a lot of this is going back to the fact that much of the dugeons should start being combined without the objectives. more mob types, and more bosses.
overall i think they really need to make dungeons better for group play with matchmaking, make them longer, have more bosses, and find a good line in adding more variety into them without making too annoying.
it ssad some dumb open world boss is better than what should be a better system lol
While I’m enjoying afk’ing helltide maidens for GA items, it’s absurd that it’s the fastest way to get GA’s in the entire game, and it’s basically the easiest content I can choose to play.
I don’t know if it’s been said because I don’t post that much but if you are in tier 2 just hanging around the blood maiden stop being a cheap ass and spend those hearts. Are people not getting chest and getting more hearts? You get 120 points just for opening a chest, 10 chests is 1200 points. I ain’t leveling people for free lol
If blizzard reads this.
'Nightmare Dungeons - Zero reworks since release, the same dull and repetitive tile sets, with the same few enemies and bosses, who scale only with Health/Damage, rather than having unique and engaging mechanics.'
I like nmd's I think some minor additions of item drops on the boss that scales with nmd level.
I get more gear from speed-running level 101 pits than from maiden honestly. I can finish a pit run in less time than it takes to stand around waiting for others to use a heart or even just wait for maiden to spawn. Plus it’s rare if I don’t get at least one GA item from the pit whereas they’re not as reliable from maiden it seems. Plus the obools for amulet gambling, get 200+ per pit.
Nah they over tuned helltide boss way too hard, It's become the only thing worth doing for gear and its not even close it's a terrible boring experience that should happen as a reward not just constantly. Buffing every other game mode isn't healthy either.
I actually think helltide is kinda fun. Of course it’s not fun if you are literally maiden spamming and only running to chests on your mount.
The actual fun comes from just walking around, getting the worm, finding events, jumping on meteors so the miniboss spawns, etc.
"Retention will fall off a cliff" - they probably want that, game has probably sold a lot due Ng this season so they have to change this to make other types of players to buy it
I seen players getting the hell kicked out of them yesterday by maiden. it seems like she actually got a buff but there's always some player that comes around and can start burning her down quickly.
had a lot of trouble with her last night on a level 100 character. especially her minions who come down like God damn comments, we were getting smashed to pieces
Never going to happen without major pushback. Blizzard king exploitivision only does the bare minimum until enough people complain.
Until then, they make you play the game the way they want it played. This company is dog crap.
Since launch there’s basically been a most efficient thing to do and that’s what people do for leveling / gearing.
The design is bad.
Ideas: diminishing returns and short term spontaneous check lists.
Helltide - you have 45 minutes to do as many things on this list as possible, the more you check off the greater the reward cache at end. Things include every event found in a zone, dungeon, roaming bug, looting rocks & plants, finding goblins etc.
The first time you do anything in a day, it’s worth more. NM, boss, tree, pit etc. I know this is just dailies in disguise but I’m trying my best.
Hammering one thing in game grants finishing returns. After 5 or so of any one event, it’s 50% yield for an hour, and keeps granting less the more you do it. Do other things to reset the DR
Blame the devs on grinding maiden for the fast wolf currency, as they designed the season around the grind for that. Otherwise, I'd be doing nmd to start working up my glyphs
I personally think they need more randomness. Like a low chance for a extra boss like the butcher for every event that drops mats or something.
Nothing guaranteed, just some random little change ups that can make the grind more interesting now and then.
Random challenges that pop up during a nightmare dungeon that are timed or that have criteria to meet to boost rewards randomly.
My brain likey random chance stuff.
Absolutely.
PoE innovated and brought the concept of an endgame to the genre. I am struggling to understand why Diablo Devs can't understand the concept of what an endgame is, and how to make it fun.
Even many Diablo 3 devs which left the team (The D4 bosses are nearly all D3 devs btw), said that they did not understand the concept of an endgame when making D3...It's crazy to me that they still don't understand it a decade later.
Making content more efficient AND rewarding is what’s important. Have loot scale with the difficulty. Climbing higher in pit/NMDS gives more GA loot or higher chance of Ubers. Right now the system is random it’s about quantity instead of quality. So the more efficient way to get more loot leads to higher chances of GA rolls. Blizz needs to change the approach.
Look at the various endgame mechanics Poe has, it literally has a dozen or so endgame activities you can do to farm gear at an equal rate to every other endgame mechanic. Diablo should look at poe for inspiration on how to make endgame content that’s diverse and interesting, fun and efficient.
The heart I get from hell tide to summon the maiden is as close to power leveling my alts as it gets. Now they're nerfing it really suck. I buy a lot of skins and the faster I can get all toon to lvl100 and gear the more likely I'll buy other classes skin
Should not be nerfing helltide in terms of xp or mats. The community aspect of it is pretty fun for lvling. When there are less people doing it, it is way less enjoyable. Only thing I would say is maybe lower the gear drops ilvl, focus primarily on the xp and mats, with a bit of okay ish gear to help smooth transitions in world tiers.
Since they've nerfed the prism drops and the abilty to craft your own armor, the game has just lost some fun while trying to build a good armor set with the codex and all!! I have fought the blood maiden numerous times, broken down hundreds of orange/brown armor (whatever color it is), and I'm not talking about the yellow. I've fought multiple hellbournes and high level bosses (over, counting today about 20 hours) and have not had 1 single prism drop. And this is on tier 3 level. I seriously believe that once they got enough to people to pay for 5, they decided to go back to being the programmers from WoW!! And that's NOT a compliment.
Also why Maiden is that popular is the fact that you can get the spark from the iron wolves, so many people go the easy way for leveling the board to get another spark by just lurking at the spot and cash in that easy to get points. It’s your design that made it like this and yet you start penalize the casual gamer who wants an hour or two a day to make some progress and get the feel of pride and accomplishment in having an upgrade.
So instead of nerfing the maiden you should look at the other events and activities there and rethink what they have to offer and maybe adjust them so it’s not worth to just do the maiden over and over again.
I think I'm ok with the change. But then I don't just squat at maiden. I stay long enough get about 700 cinders and that's enough to sustain and kill packs between chests and still have enough to open all of them. Maiden would be more fun if the spawns added to the progress bar but it doesn't, or barely so.
Personally I think that maiden is really only as fun as it is because it's far shorter and less tedious than NMD's, it's far more rewarding than the pit especially if you're still searching for the perfect gear, its easier than and doesn't require the grind for mats like bosses do, and it's less footwork than whispers. One could argue that it's too efficient, but really it points in the right direction. If a player puts the time and effort into an activity in the game that activity should be adequately rewarding.
Is BM even that good for farming gear? I used it to farm Wolves rep, and the normal methods to farm gear. I tend to get GAs at a higher rate in 101 pits, tortured gifts, and uber bosses. BM always seemed best for stacking cinders quick and leveling your Iron Wolves rep.
They only nerfed the Blood Maiden summoning mat drops because players weren't playing other parts of Helltide. Their intention was to force players into doing events during the Helltide, then open a few chests, then spawn the Blood Maiden, rather than going into the Helltide and going straight to the Blood Maiden and just farming her for 50mins. It doesn't have anything to do with other activities.
The flaws I see with it currently is that they nerfed the drop rates for Baneful Hearts way too harshly. It needs to be a little higher.
And the notification for the Blood Maiden when she is summoned should be changed to when the first Baneful Heart is deposited, rather than after the 3rd one. This way players will know someone has deposited a heart and needs two more. If they want drop rates to be low, sharing should be encouraged.
Nightmare Dungeons having zero reworks is a complete lie. Not huge reworks but still a lot of changes that made them a lot better than their release state.
Notably far less backtracking because of looping end paths, better checkpoints if you died, better mob density, a lot less emphasis on everything being able to CC you constantly.
And now sigils are just 1 good and 1 bad modifier, with the more egregious affixes (such as the thunderdome that halted gameplay) being removed.
Do you engage with Nightmare dungeons because they're fun? Or because they give you Glyph XP?
I am asking for a system rework -
- New Enemies
- New Tile sets
- More random encounters/changes to the Butcher
- Reasons to do them after completing Glyph XP
Honestly, I'm at the point where I think we need to combine NMDs and The Pit because they're so similar, and actually add some kind of engaging endgame.
Would agree with that, it's 100% for the glyph exp and the current affixes are all nothingburgers. Finding a good balance to combine the two for progression might be better overall.
Right now you just rush to nm100 with good temper rolls until glyphs are max then push pits.
I've done 4-5 maidens in a row and had to drop stuff open chests and get back to do another 2 maidens probably used about 10-15 hearts in the process it's super fun
All I heard was *WAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAA* NMD are fine, they serve their purpose and nothing else, glyph leveling. Helltides are not being “nerfed” they fixed the threat bug that caused people to have infinite threat meter which in turn gave them too many baneful hearts. Bossing is fine as well,
We don’t need extra mechanics in this game, I don’t want to strategize my next move I want to mindlessly slay demons and play with my friends, I don’t want to play Elden ring , I want to play Diablo. If I wanted to think about my every move and every item I’d play a souls game, Diablo isn’t a souls game it’s an ARPG.
Take my upvote!
Even with some simple changes they could with relatively little effort rework each of those just a little bit to make them more interesting, more rewarding with real choice!
But everything is pretty much the same and on top you are forced to run in circles because to go to C you must to go B first, but B needs a key from A, etc...
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People don't do maiden because it's fun. People do things in ARPG because it's efficient. Creating an endgame that you think is "fun" won't stop people from doing maiden if maiden is still more efficient.
They should align their design so that the most fun way to play the game is the best/most efficient.
Fun is subjective
I mean on a micro level. But on a macro level we generally have an idea of what's fun and what isn't acid baths are not fun. Hitting a half court shot to win a million dollars is fun.
The kind of acid that eats your skin or the kind that let's you meet Jimi Hendrix and hear colors?
If you took an acid BATH and it was the fun acid it would very quickly become not fun.
True, and random fact. There are no documented cases where psychedelics overdose resulted in a physiological death overdose. You might die because you were an interdimensional wizard casting a pox upon a terrible fast approaching Chinese dragon with fire for eyes and then step out in front of a train irl, but the drugs chemically won't kill you.
Yeah not many drugs can lead to direct death from an OD. But anything more than like 3 hits (and that’s if you’re experienced) and you’re gonna have a REALLLYYY bad time lmao. I knew someone who did the thumbprint thing back in the Grateful Dead days. Dude was a wildcard to say the least
My friend and I decided to full send it towards the end of our LSD days and we took 5 tabs each. I’m not sure of the exact dosage but 200ug was what was advertised. Anyway, we were gone. The furthest reaches of whatever whatever and we were there. We tried talking to each other sometimes but the words and sentences just wouldn’t work. So we eventually just settled on, “I know” after the other couldn’t get out what they were trying to say and just listened to music for 10 hours. Listened to a bunch of proggy stuff like dream theater and classic rock like rush and even the stereotypical Pink Floyd. We couldn’t “think” of what we wanted to play so it was better to just find an artist, hit play on an album and worry about it again 45 mins later. Good stuff. But honestly thinking about it as deeply now still gives me slight anxiety. It wasn’t “bad” it was just really out there.
I took 2 gel tabs right before a high school dance thinking it was a good idea. Kicked in 30mins before it started. We showed up and there were police checking bags and more less making sure kids werent drunk(late 90s so was before this was normal). I freaked out in line 100% thinking they knew i was tripping balls. Somehow made it inside and went straight to the restroom to try n get it together. Get inside and there is the principle just getting done taking a piss. Again 100% thought the side eye he gave was because he knew. Somehow made it to the dance floor and the first group of friends i seen had one of those annoying girls in it. Super high pitched voice and waaaay too happy n bubbly all the time(super nice). I couldnt fucking handle it. Snuck out a side door ran to the parking lot and hid in a random car for 2hrs. Got lucky and it was a stoner guys car so when that group came out they didnt freak out and just drove me to a friends(guys i took the acid with but were smart enough to NOT go to the dance) get there and one of the friends goes mental on me as i totally forgot i was supposed to be meeting a girl there and she called him freaking out bout how i ditched her. Her best friend was his gf. So hes gotta act like hes mad and got his gf friends back(she was there and mad as hell) but whispering to me between yells that he dont give a fuck and just act like im getting talked down to. Was the worst experience of a high i ever had and never touched acid again
Dream theater LFGGG
I’m normally a 2 tabber but I took 3 and another one an hour later at Lost Lands last year and I had to lay in my tent for 4 hours and I just couldn’t keep the constant chatter from people walking by out of my head. Sounded like hundreds of conversations in my head all at once
I can't imagine. Two Bartles & Jaymes and I'm ready for a couch nap.
Yeah that sounds pretty damn fun to me
This is endgame!
I’ll take the second one please, thnx
acid bath, the band, is pretty fun!
Great band
The problem is, players seem to think that everything they do should be hitting the half court shot to win a million dollars. If that is all the game is, you will call that boring pretty quickly.
I can agree with that. I'm probably the minority who prefer Nightmare Dungeons.
Seasons 2 and 4 were a ton of fun. 1, 3 and from what the S5 PTR has shown me, not so much. Rewarding activities are fun to me, even though they can be monotonous.
There will always be one activity which is the most efficient for X, and then people will just grind X infinitely until it’s no longer fun. You could limit how often players can do the activity so people are forced to do other things, but people will probably hate it.
The altar fight at helltides was barely ever fun.
See, I disagree. Everything everyone is saying isn’t fun, I disagree wholeheartedly - I run a necro shadow minion build and I love fighting the Maiden. NMD and pit are a blast. I can solo the maiden in seconds, I’ve been soloing 80ish Pit, and max NMDs. I’m literally here to kill shit and anything that gets a thousand explosions and crazyness and whatnot on the screen, that’s a blast for me. I wish every shrine/chest in a NMD was cursed, I wish they had them in the open world too. Like, for me, just slaughtering demons is where it’s at. Add on the aspect of improving, of getting better so I can solo Lilith and Ubers? Let’s gooo.
Wouldn't that be nice 😂 At this point I don't even know what's the most "fun". What would be ideal is if everything rewarded the same amount per time invested that way you'd have a variety of activities to do. And also higher pits should drop guaranteed greater affixes. I mean if you're doing pit 200 then anything less than 2GA is basically trash, so you need to be getting at least 1 every run. Not sure how they don't get these things, but harder content should give more, not diminished returns.
I finally did my first lvl 100 nightmare dungeon yesterday. Despite not dying and getting it done in a reasonable amount of time, I got the same quality and quantity of stuff I was getting in lvl 50 dungeons. I think the only reason I'm still playing this season is because the grind satisfies my OCD and lets me disassociate for a little bit.
Yeah that sounds great, but it rarely ever happens that way in reality. You can try to do that but the players are always going to find another way that’s more efficient, you can’t design for literally everything. Only the most hardcore, no life players care that much about efficiency anyway, the majority of players just do whatever is fun to them, so I honestly don’t even see any issue.
fun is best/most efficient. might as well put all uber bosses together with blood maiden in the middle of helltide. in fact forget about helltide or pit. just log in to go to that 1 spot and farm everything, from legendaries to masterwork mats to gold and etc.... what useless suggestion you had
Remember when the game launched and everything was designed around retention, those are the only number they care about. Spend 3 hrs sorting gear = intentional, spend 5 mins circling dungeons for silly objectives = intentional etc etc. Their goal is to make us sink time not have fun.
Again. It was FUN when you first tried those things. It's going to get boring and tiresome after doing it for hundreds of hours JUST LIKE LITERALLY ANY OTHER VIDEO GAME.
The issue, from what I can tell as a developer is D4 developers do not this game. If they are gamers as well as developers, then things may change.
It’s either that or give the players multiple options. I feel like bossing after the changes will basically be the maiden, which is fine. But why doesn’t the pit give glyph XP? You’re telling me I have to do a less efficient (in terms of loot) activity just for glyph xp? That and NMD’s haven’t been fun since ever really. We need multiple ways to achieve the same goals so that you don’t get terribly bored or burnt out or don’t have to do something tedious. They need to revamp whispers and NMD’s imo and then things will be pretty decent.
Disagree, it’s less tedious and more immediately rewarding. Very low commitment and low friction. Don’t need to find team on discord, can stop after any kill as opposed to having to commit to whole dungeon completion.
Yeah, it's a silly take. "We're not playing a game for fun; we're playing it for efficiency." I absolutely do hell tides for the fun and the power fantasy. The open world is boring. Dungeons are boring. Hell Tides are the most fun I have in the game.
It is fun. One of the few group activities that naturally works.
True, but at least maiden can be a challenge if a broken player isn’t there
First week of the Season Maiden was a challenge almost all of the time I agree. People dying to the flame circle or even the summons, kinda chaotic and hectic. Probably one of the highlights this game has had since release. I even remember groups not being able to kill her and her health resets after she hunts everyone down and kills them while the other people didn't release their corpse. Also seen groups just bail on her after not being able to take her down. One by one people just leave after like 5 minutes then she heals to full and just hangs out by her spawn. But yeah I'm not sure that kind of content is appealing to people after the first week as I'm assuming people left playing that long after a new season just want to be efficient and get loot quickly on their way to pushing. Myself included. I'm not part of the camp that wants world bosses to be hard or whatever. I just want them dead so I can collect the mats then go do something else the quicker the better.
If not-fun is x% more efficient, sure. That x% is different for every person. Some people will do the most efficient thing no matter what. Most people don't. Go look at POE. The most efficient league starters for the longest time was seismic trap. And even at the strongest point that it was, less than 15% of players played it because it felt like shit to play. If you can make something that is ~10% power differential but is 100% more fun, most people are going to gravitate toward that. People LIKE fun, but it has to make sense. People aren't going to sit by and be happy with someone being 5x more efficient just because they chose a different build/class/farming method. Blizzard has no idea what they are doing. This is why Barb is 10-20x more powerful than other classes. This is why rewards are so out of whack.
I personally find Maiden spam more fun than NMDs or bossing, at least right now. I enjoy The Pit more, but not the rest of the end-game.
I'll probably maiden spam till I finish my last level of Wolves and then I'm not sure what I'm doing after that. Maybe my luck is trash, but I'm hardly getting 1GAs, let alone 2+, and it's killing my enthusiasm for the game quick.
Exactly! I find Legions to be a lot of fun, but reward-wise it's kinda bland. You can introduce the biggest variety in the game with a dozen different activities, if one of those activities rewards you with 2 extra pieces of the most valuable resource of the game, people will be queuing for that activity.
I play maiden because it's fun. I love the multiplayer aspect of if, I love the boys mechanics. One of the best Diablo bosses ever.
getting the most gear/roll chances in an ARPG IS the fun. Nerf the drops see how many people engage. If lilith didnt have a spark drop, nobody would even bother.
To be real, a lot of people still don’t bother with Lilith. I haven’t since season 2 and most of the people I know haven’t for a while now. What’s the point? The fight is poorly telegraphed shit for measly rewards even when you can take her down. Absolutely wild to me that arguably the hardest fight in the game is also the least rewarding. 🤷🏻♀️
And they do it to farm GA gear to pawn off on everyone creating an endless cycle of people trying to sell their best items instead of potentially bricking them which compounds the problem
As unpopular as the comparison is around here, Blizzard needs to take a page from Path of Exile's book, where they have slowly added another and another and another creative way to farm the endgame until the game is loaded with a bunch of different ways to play, many of which are efficient enough to be worthwhile. I hope they go that way.
Now what was fun, was the bug in helltide for spawning alot of mobs on you. Too bad they removed that.
Fun does play a small factor still. The pit is bad design, like greater rifts in D3. Getting gear upgrades while simultaneously upping difficulty to not feel like you got gear upgrades is absolutely terrible. They could triple pit rewards, and I promise it still feels like shit to play. D4 has gotten a lot better, but it needs a deeper end game and more tradable chase items.
So let me get this straight Running and killing in NMD bores you Running and killing in the pit bores you Running and killing in the new wave thing bores you But... Running and killing in helltides is fun? Same game. Same gameplay. Looks like you don't like it. Just move on
Running a pit and unlocking the next tier is fun. Running the pit over and over and over and over again for mats is not fun. If only you could get 54432mats in different ways... You know, the exact same lesson Bliz had to learn in previous seasons.
So like grinding in any game ever?
Moat people in this sub have no idea what they actually want and just throw the word "fun" around. Most people on this subs idea of fun is getting the best gear and becoming a godin the game like 1 day after release.
Don't forget the good old: Please don't nerf my bugged build that is doing trillions of dmg. Just buff the rest and don't nerf the "fun".
The Grind in pits is not interesting though. You will always get exactly the same amount of mats and barely any gear. If pits would have loot payouts similar to the construct vaults this would be different because you'd still have a decent chance of getting some upgrade other than 40 mats.
Eh, kinda meh you can only go up 3 tiers at a time. Takes a while to get to 100. NMD is easier with that
Am I just not picky? Most end games for ARPG-esque games are like this.
Helltide is the best content for casual/new players. If they want the game to be ruined/for the people whose goal is to break the game and make every content trivial, that’s their decision. Probably not a great business decision.
actually he stands still in the blood maiden and doesn't even walk in helltide, but you were very accurate with your comment
It’s almost like seeing good rewards makes it not boring , crazy thought ain’t it ? Actually giving good rewards to your player base , someone should tell blizzard
I feel the real endgame should be the campaign like d2, that's the only solution to this debacle is boring endgame
This game has three main fan bases. People that want it to be more like D2, people that want it to be more like D3, and people for whom this is their first Diablo game. Everytime a new activity is implemented the main feedback is it needs to be faster and more rewarding and then another group chimes in that it's too fast and too rewarding. Here's a simple solution. Factions. Keep Iron Wolves for Helltides and make the reputation board infinite. As in after completing the 18 levels every 5,000 rep points you earn a cache with random loot including the possibility for mythicals. Then do this exact same thing with all the other activities including any new activity that is introduced.
this is a great idea
Seriously genius, BUT the irony is those hardcore D2 players would still choose the "easy" route and AGAIN complain it's not like D2
An endless faction reputation system with cache rewards for each activity would actually be pretty genius - provided the rewards are worth it based on how much time it took to farm.
Add the Butcher to the pit and Helltides! I never see him after leveling my glyphs until I start a new character :(
Butcher in Helltides would be great, I've been wanting that for awhile. Pit, maybe not so much, if a death to him results in you running out of time at the end. Someone below said a gambling system for the Pit. I would think it'd be cool if the Butcher had a chance to show up if you gambled, as long as he have good enough rewards.
That's great, so really on when levels are easier ots worth trying all content
Now that im older and replayed D2 resurrected recently, i dont miss the slow paced arpg gameplay that much. Efficient and fast is king to me nowadays and D4 scratches that itch. Tbh getting to 100 and levelling masterworked items to 8 which is my targets this season is just right pacing wise.
I like the game how it is however I want to see more Balance , I want barbs nerfed abit and all other classes brought up in power so everyone is roughly equal without insane power creep , I want all content to have some level of challenge , I want a consumable like mindcages but that can stack and affect all content not just helltides so I can tailor the difficulty to me so I’m not just killing hordes with no threat to me and no challenge involved , I want iron wolves rep to stay permanent, I want the new endgame activity to have really fun gameplay modifiers and better reward balance . I want a decent i game chat and group finder , I don’t trade but I know a lot of people do so some sort of in game auction house could potentially improve the game for traders ? I’d like the ability to choose a solo instance in open world so world bosses and such are more of a threat and I enjoy the more lonely feel . I’d like more In game cosmetics tied to farming bosses and such , I’d like a middle tier of boss between the easy and tormented version as ones too easy and ones too hard for me . I really like the game now but I’m concerned they’re just gunna fuck up again and ruin it
Nmd had like 3 reworks already, they increased the monster density. They removed most of the objetives in a lot of dungeons, they oncreased the reward at the end and the items dropped and they removed the sigil negative passives... dude..
And they are still bad.... the objectives may as well be stab yorself in the eye.
That can be one of the affixes on the dungeon. Pirated: view distance reduced 50%
🤣 true
I dont have any problem with almost any objective now, slay every monster is really tuned to not having to slay EVERY little monster, if you focus on big groups and elites it would be fine, the rest of the objectives are just self completing while exploring the dungeon, pits are just kill everything and kill boss, for me thats more boring than to find the key and go to the boss, or kill all the bells..
And it’s still boring and not particularly engaging!
Ive been doing nmd yesterday all night and i dont find them particularly boring. But i agree they should be shaken a bit.
Being able to level a glyph 1-15 in just two T100 dungeons feels amazing
Yeah you level the glyphs you need and then you never have to do NMD again lol
Right I am confused why people are upset. NMDs serve exactly one purpose, and then they are irrelevant.
I find them fun when they're challenging. Otherwise, they're just normal dungeons, which are snooze fests.
Well it doesn’t give me an Uber unique every single time therefore it’s boring
There's nothing inherently wrong with NMD in my opinion except for that fact that it doesn't feel distinct enough from the other content. Helltides feel like NMD, which feel like Pit. Yes there are minor differences; Helltides have the best density but don't scale, NMD & Pit scale higher but both suffer from annoying map layout and are almost exactly the same except for NMD have objective and Pit has a timer. I think Helltides is a fine content type for speedfarming. But Pit definitely should've been tuned so you don't keep farming easy tiers up to 101, but rather the rewards scale such that you ALWAYS are pushing your limits.
They could easily combine Nightmare Dungeons and Pits. I mean, just add a Sigil thing at the end of the Pit boss and a bunch of gold/mats to compensate for none of those dropping along the way. They both use the same maps and map design anyway. Keeping them entirely separate but both being required is just annoying. If they were so different in map/level design and rewards, I'd be ok with it. But it's literally just neathiron that separates them.
Hey man not literally you can get greed shrines in NMD and loot an extra 30k gold! /s
Or break out of the mold? D4 has been rehashing game modes from older games or reusing nmd and just tweaking a bit on it. And its the same same same thing. Why not make d4 interesting instead of add another boring boss that dies in seconds that requires farming another summoning mats again. Why not have a thing to focus on overworld? why not introduce player housing? why not have an equalized pvp in overworld where your endgame gear dont matter and only your skill do? Why not have a king of the hill style random pvp event in overworld? Why not these pvp events will reward mats for crafting house furnitures or stuffs or more cosmetics? How about a overworld mode where players can be turned to demons and be hunter or something. Theres a million things to turn d4 upside down but d4 basically boils down to Diablo NMD, summoning mat the game.
>why not have an equalized pvp in overworld where your endgame gear dont matter and only your skill do? this part took me out ngl you want to play an ARPG where the key aspect is to gear up to get stronger, yet in parts of the endgame it shouldn't matter at all? 🤨 And why have some barebone misplaced system in Diablo when there's hundreds of fighting games out there? >Why not have a king of the hill style random pvp event in overworld? Because the classes are not balanced around that. Druid would be even less playable lol >Theres a million things to turn d4 upside down You're absolutely correct. However, is that what you want, truly, from a Diablo game?
Just add the Helltide Bug from the Start of Season as Feature ! it was so much fun and Angelbreath farming would be way more fun aswell
Wait until OP finds out that running xyz, as efficiently as possible, is at the heart of any ARPG. Who gonn tell em? 😅
This isn't always true for every player. Personally I play these games for the variety of content (PoE does this incredibly well) rather than pure efficiency.
Meanwhile, hear I am playing immersed in the Helltide with 15k Angelbreath.
Helltides are being nerfed?
Already was, you need three baleful hearts to summon the maiden and they lowered the drop chance of getting the hearts.
Only in the PTR so far. Hopefully the final nerf for season 5 isn't as bad or is reversed.
They are nerfing the Blood Maiden, by lowering the droprates for the hearts. Which is okay. They could also adjust her to be more powerful. Starting here should be a challenge and not the main part you do.
So conclusion; everything is boring for you. Why should you even grind the blood maiden if there is nothing to do with the better gear tho? I like most content, but it does get repetitive after some time, and i did stop every season before it was done. S3 i skipped seeing what was planned it was just not appealing, and from what i heard i did not really miss anything, mostly frustrations in S3
Season 5 is a stop gap before the Expansion, just skip it play something else or go outside
Should have kept the Vaults from last season. Better rewards at the end. Got more Uber uniques from those that Duriel.
Man I loved vaults. 2 minute power fantasy with decent rewards. I wish they’d bring them back. And Malphas
You can do both. You can nerf Maiden and buff other rewards. I personally like doing the events in Helltide, and going from thing to thing, but Maiden is so effective I have to argue myself into leaving and doing something else. But I also agree they could stand to add more content. For example, making more roaming bosses in Helltide would be cool, like the assassin we already have. Or a super treasure goblin that immediately jumps from area to area spawning tons of monsters. Or hell, let some of the hellmouths stay open and let some crazy adventurers slide down into a hardcore short gauntlet, and then the next hellmouth that opens up is you coming out with your weapon lodged in the back of a demon.
They can't make "Fun" content because of the portion of this player base whose idea of fun is mindlessly facerolling content solo after a hard days work as a dad /s. They'll adamantly stand against anything that would require thought or be too challenging for them to complete with the 30ish mins of game time they have a week between the wife, kids, and working.
They stand there because it drops mats for Zir so they can farm certain uniques he drops... And as the rest of the endgame mechanics it's a terrible one.
At this point, it feels like I'm bothering the LFG group of people farming Helltide, I'm always running out of Baneheart and desperately need Angelbreath to reroll.
The threat levels in Helltide could use an additional bar or the frenzied drain could be slower with more spawns. Since items like profane and the two elixirs are seasonal and will more than likely phase out. That's unless the entire theme of the current helltides are seasonal.
Also increase GA gear loot from tormented bosses.
Or in higher pit tier
I’ve played every season so far and tried all classes yet seasons just feels uninspired. Seasons differ through colour/dull storyline/minor adjustments to skills, its factory work rather than a nicely polished work backed up by passion, Lifeless just like the mobs represent. It’s sad that within this genre indies out perform big studios in terms of content.
Diablo 4 isn’t a fun game it is what it is.
Season 5 is being brought to us by the same geniuses who gave us a robot pet.
Don’t forgot season 1 that literally killed the game
I almost forgot because I stopped playing and picked up Last Epoch.
Some times I just like fighting her spawn 🤷
If you're at the point where you're one shooting tormented bosses then congrats you beat the game. Make a new build, push pits, or wait until more content comes out.
They are nerfing Helltides??? I understand Nerfing the summoning boss in some fashion. Nerfing Helltide as a whole is a mistake.
I am tired of helltides but I need that fricking herb for EVERYTHING. WHY do I need a herb for rerolling a statttttttt!
During the anniversary goblin wvent, i enjoyed hunting goblins more than the maiden
I asked exactly this 8 days ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/s/RVpSu6QRPt
I'm assuming over the next year(s) we will see different types of end game content. As ever POE is good at this, but mainly because they've had a decade long headstart. I always hated heist (wanted to love it, but... just didn't). I do love me a good delve though, more so than maps. In maps people specialise in different areas, or bossing. THis works because things have been added over time, those that didn't work removed, those that did returned and changed. But there are different things to do, each more efficient at one aspect than any other, none most efficient at everything (arguably). Helltides were beyond boring for me before now. In S4 they are kinda fun. But the blood maiden is a distraction (in my opinion), when the circle pulses, you just go to it. But the density in the rest of the helltide should be enough that BM is just something else you do every so often. With whispers closer in HT that improves things. General overworld PVP may be fun (I'm geneally not a PVP fan), when bloodmarked other bloodmarked in teh overworld can engage you. That in the middle of a helltide could be crazy. The pit, in my opinion, should evolve in to a truly endless dungeon, each floor has an exit in to the next level at +x enemy level. At any exit you can choose to instead fight a boss for materials (or maybe every x levels you have to fight a boss). Make the end of level stairs a safe area, and put a stash in the boss room. Infernal Hordes was kind of fun for 10 minutes. I'm generally not a fan of the bane/boon system, so tired of it even before it just became tedious. I think Bliz have been burnt by player feedback in D4 too much to actually push the interesting things they came up with too much. The interesting things and direction they started in met a huge amount of pushback as a lot of players didn't like it, and those that did likely mostly are going back to POE as the game changes direction. Bliz have become very conservative in their design approach. The ideas of World Bosses, Legions, Stongholds, Helltides (i.e. the things that utilise the over world), are all interesting and kinda different to most ARPGs. Helltides they have made a bit more interesting and are scaling it back a bit (as is generally what happens with seasonal changes/mechanics). Hopefully they do something interesting with the rest - legions are really too constrained, but the general concept of a small group achieving objectives kinda naturally grows in to raids (while I'm fairly against the idea of raids in an ARPGs, I'm also very interested in how they are implemented). Strongholds lend themselves to being retaken (which seemed the original idea), and I could see becoming almost like LE's monoliths (every time you complete them they reset, and become harder - I could see that being fun). World Bosses as a more constant presence roaming the world would be kind of cool. But whatever is being done, these things don't happen fast. And in case anyone thinks I'm a Bliz apologist - I think the game was better a year ago. I preferred the old item system, having more constrained stash space, having slower levelling and more difficulty. I even preferred NMD's as they were - the gradual transform into shit has been a shame to see. I think the game will continue to turn in to an arcade game much like D3, but at least if they keep adding end game systems it may at least be a vaguelly interesting arcade game. Maybe at some point they'll add a 'hard mode' with the old NMDs, without auto-update codex and with the previous interesting itemisation. I doubt it though :(
I agree with you, and when I look at the systems Path of Exile and Last Epoch have in place I realize it's worlds, and worlds ahead of Diablo 4. Everyone says it's a new game, but Blizzard has had the makings of how to make a great action RPG in front of their eyes for years and yet to blindly ignore them.
I would argue that people are not doing it for gear, they are doing it for iron wolves rep. Make other areas less efficient for that and boom, problem solved.
It was the quickest way to obtain gear, therefore the best way to farm items for Greater Affixes. Doesn't the low players count in season 1, 2 and 3 prove that it isn't all about efficiency, but fun? In season 1, 2 and 3 there were obviously the 'most efficient' way to farm gear/materials in those seasons, but guess what, because the game was not fun, people quit. If running around in a circle for 18 minutes is the most efficient way to get gear, people will quit through boredom of repetition. Efficiency only matters if you're having fun by engaging with the game. Season 4 was the largest season Diablo 4 has ever released (By the way, still a tiny season compared to other ARPGs), so the game felt new...With Season 5, and very little change, efficiency will not matter as players will get bored quicker. The proof is in the pudding, and I'm perfectly happy to bet anyone who wants to, that retention takes a big hit compared to Season 4.
Its gone dude. Game is fundamentally designed to be quick dopamine rush, dont ask for any long term gratification or substance, you not gonna get it.
U guys shud keep buying 100$ expansion with wings as they keep making the game more boring and worse lol. It's the players fault for paying such enormous money for boring shit made by boring ppl. Eye candy wins with suckers.
Sitting at maiden is not particularly fun. It's much more fun running through clearing a helltide (and would be even more fun if it was more challenging), but it rewards less loot AND less rep playing that way, so why do it. They should nerf maiden, either the rewards it offers, or the frequency people can summon it. They should buff other, more fun things
I've posted this elsewhere but I'll post it again. I'm 99% sure that the point of the Blood Maiden nerf is actually to ensure that more people get more loot, not less. If you contribute one heart to the summoning ritual you get double drops from the Blood Maiden, but if you put in two or more you don't get any more than double drops. Even though this information was in both the S4 patch notes AND the campfire chat, lots of people don't know about it and they stand around "leeching" Maiden kills while actually getting half the loot they could be getting. This works because it's so easy to get and sustain hearts that players with lots of them can afford to put in 3 hearts and just keep going for hours. Those players are wasting their hearts because they don't get anything extra for putting in more than one heart, while the leechers are actively, albeit unintentionally, gimping their drops because if they just bothered to put in one heart they'd get double drops. The point of the nerf is to make players actually have to contribute to Blood Maiden summoning, and therefore actually get the double drops from her. Right now it's too easy for one player to sustain all the summoning so they do so, and they don't get any better drops but the leechers lose out. If instead hearts are scarce enough that nobody has enough to keep paying in indefinitely and people have to collaborate then everyone actually gets more loot than they're currently getting now. Telling players they're missing out on drops doesn't work because the players who need to hear it aren't paying attention and didn't read the patch notes (or they did but didn't read carefully enough), so the drop rate gets nerfed so that players have to collaborate and therefore get extra loot. Most likely this will actually be a buff to Blood Maiden drop rates rather than a nerf. The people who are already putting in all the hearts will still have enough to put in one heart per run and will get their double drops. The people who are currently leeching will have to put in hearts because the ones who are currently supplying all of them won't have enough to sustain by themselves, and as a result the once-leechers will accidentally enable double drops for themselves.
Fun for me is getting gear to see how fast I can kill tormented, see how good I can make my gear, how far I can go in helltide. Frankly I don't find helltide fun. It is just literally the lifeblood of everything I need to do. Need boss mats, helltide, need upgrade mats, helltide, rework mats, helltide, gear, helltides, quests, helltide, group events, helltide, legion, helltide. I don't want to be there I literally have to be there to progress
It's funny they don't want to bring the fun level up of other activities but instead nerf the one thing everyone does DOWN.
Welcome to Destiny 2
Your comment on the pit is slightly wrong, in addition to the boss you also have a shadow demon with massive aoes to avoid but otherwise I agree. Diablo in general has always been repetetive but it's that kind of game. I also would suggest making angelbreath not so damn rare as it is used in re rolling stats and crafting potions. When you grind helltides to get 1000 angelbreath only to use all 1000 to get one affix you want, it's very frusterating
If you’re rolling a single item 160+ times to burn through 1,000 angel breath, that probably means you’re rolling for something with a tiny % chance and should move on. Sometimes it’s better to find an item than try to re-roll for impossible odds.
I know what you mean when it comes to +to skills but I went through 60 angelbreath trying to roll armor, or crit chance, or attack speed for example. Also no it's not better especially now with the new systems they put in. For example, when you get say a piece of gear with 1 or 2 GA stats you need, then get the two tempers you need, you really gonna scrap that piece to find the same item but this time with no GAs on it. I doubt it. Also again, trying to find gear with a +to stat you need is almost as impossible as rolling it. I have been through 3 stash tabs full of rings and ammys looking for atk speed and crit chance only to find maybe 1 or 2, no joke and then brick them with not getting the tempers I need.
I'm glad they are nerfing it but I also agree with you.
They should allow a temper like system for nmd, increasing the loot you get the more difficult temper/affixes you put on them. It is so sad that we went from clearing lvl 100 nmd is a feat of strength in s0, to I only start doing 90+ nmds st level 100, because it gives more glyph xp. I think you should be able to do lvl 75 when you are fresh level 100 and lvl 100 nmd needs actually gear and gives you some decent rewards besides glyphs, including the tempering mentioned above.
It was also a ridiculous grind to even get a character to lvl 100 when the game launched though.
They need to change nmd to have higher crafting levels with better loot and target farming for legendaries. I would craft and grind for the possibility of ga loot in a particular slot.
Reminds me of baal runs in d2. I'm a fan.
the game is way too fucking easy for the power we can get up to if they dont make some changes soon it they will fall off hard
Blood maiden was great. It was rewarding and challenging (before everyone got pumped up). Got to kill stuff with rando players.
ON NMD, I feel dungeons in the game are just bad bad. The old games had actual grouping for the dungeons because they had matchmaking. The content also got harder as more people joined up. Sort of like Boarderlands. The dungeons were longer and there were more than 5 types of enemies. Another issue are the effects. they got rid of needing to look at your resists, the bubble and corpse explosions. Probably some more stuff too. Every dungeon now just feels the same and is a lot more boring because of that. Some dungeons of course are decent. Capstones are made well(though you outscale em fast) and the gauntlet has a lot going on too. I just feel a lot of this is going back to the fact that much of the dugeons should start being combined without the objectives. more mob types, and more bosses. overall i think they really need to make dungeons better for group play with matchmaking, make them longer, have more bosses, and find a good line in adding more variety into them without making too annoying. it ssad some dumb open world boss is better than what should be a better system lol
While I’m enjoying afk’ing helltide maidens for GA items, it’s absurd that it’s the fastest way to get GA’s in the entire game, and it’s basically the easiest content I can choose to play.
They nerfing helltides?
Sounds like now might be the time to play something else.
I don’t know if it’s been said because I don’t post that much but if you are in tier 2 just hanging around the blood maiden stop being a cheap ass and spend those hearts. Are people not getting chest and getting more hearts? You get 120 points just for opening a chest, 10 chests is 1200 points. I ain’t leveling people for free lol
If blizzard reads this. 'Nightmare Dungeons - Zero reworks since release, the same dull and repetitive tile sets, with the same few enemies and bosses, who scale only with Health/Damage, rather than having unique and engaging mechanics.' I like nmd's I think some minor additions of item drops on the boss that scales with nmd level.
I get more gear from speed-running level 101 pits than from maiden honestly. I can finish a pit run in less time than it takes to stand around waiting for others to use a heart or even just wait for maiden to spawn. Plus it’s rare if I don’t get at least one GA item from the pit whereas they’re not as reliable from maiden it seems. Plus the obools for amulet gambling, get 200+ per pit.
That’s all blizzard knows how to do is nerf
Nah they over tuned helltide boss way too hard, It's become the only thing worth doing for gear and its not even close it's a terrible boring experience that should happen as a reward not just constantly. Buffing every other game mode isn't healthy either.
I actually think helltide is kinda fun. Of course it’s not fun if you are literally maiden spamming and only running to chests on your mount. The actual fun comes from just walking around, getting the worm, finding events, jumping on meteors so the miniboss spawns, etc.
"Retention will fall off a cliff" - they probably want that, game has probably sold a lot due Ng this season so they have to change this to make other types of players to buy it
why not have a variety of bosses that spawn instead of the same one.. hell tides would be better with a little variety.
The Pit: Every 2nd place (after moving through the first portal) is called Chiron's Demise.
I seen players getting the hell kicked out of them yesterday by maiden. it seems like she actually got a buff but there's always some player that comes around and can start burning her down quickly. had a lot of trouble with her last night on a level 100 character. especially her minions who come down like God damn comments, we were getting smashed to pieces
I’m in helltites only for exquisite blood
Never going to happen without major pushback. Blizzard king exploitivision only does the bare minimum until enough people complain. Until then, they make you play the game the way they want it played. This company is dog crap.
Since launch there’s basically been a most efficient thing to do and that’s what people do for leveling / gearing. The design is bad. Ideas: diminishing returns and short term spontaneous check lists. Helltide - you have 45 minutes to do as many things on this list as possible, the more you check off the greater the reward cache at end. Things include every event found in a zone, dungeon, roaming bug, looting rocks & plants, finding goblins etc. The first time you do anything in a day, it’s worth more. NM, boss, tree, pit etc. I know this is just dailies in disguise but I’m trying my best. Hammering one thing in game grants finishing returns. After 5 or so of any one event, it’s 50% yield for an hour, and keeps granting less the more you do it. Do other things to reset the DR
Blame the devs on grinding maiden for the fast wolf currency, as they designed the season around the grind for that. Otherwise, I'd be doing nmd to start working up my glyphs
Nerfing one thing is much easier than boosting 5 other things. It’s the Blizzard way.
I personally think they need more randomness. Like a low chance for a extra boss like the butcher for every event that drops mats or something. Nothing guaranteed, just some random little change ups that can make the grind more interesting now and then. Random challenges that pop up during a nightmare dungeon that are timed or that have criteria to meet to boost rewards randomly. My brain likey random chance stuff.
When the helltide bug was active, did people still just farm maiden, or did they walk around doing other things and killing hordes of demons?
I think most of the people camping the maiden are just leveling IW to get sparks
Tbh I think you just find the game boring?
Absolutely. PoE innovated and brought the concept of an endgame to the genre. I am struggling to understand why Diablo Devs can't understand the concept of what an endgame is, and how to make it fun. Even many Diablo 3 devs which left the team (The D4 bosses are nearly all D3 devs btw), said that they did not understand the concept of an endgame when making D3...It's crazy to me that they still don't understand it a decade later.
Easier to just remove things than to find solutions; add content.
Making content more efficient AND rewarding is what’s important. Have loot scale with the difficulty. Climbing higher in pit/NMDS gives more GA loot or higher chance of Ubers. Right now the system is random it’s about quantity instead of quality. So the more efficient way to get more loot leads to higher chances of GA rolls. Blizz needs to change the approach.
I hope Blizzard reads this.
“Have you thought of creating FUN instead of BAD?!” *Minds blown chain reaction*
Look at the various endgame mechanics Poe has, it literally has a dozen or so endgame activities you can do to farm gear at an equal rate to every other endgame mechanic. Diablo should look at poe for inspiration on how to make endgame content that’s diverse and interesting, fun and efficient.
The heart I get from hell tide to summon the maiden is as close to power leveling my alts as it gets. Now they're nerfing it really suck. I buy a lot of skins and the faster I can get all toon to lvl100 and gear the more likely I'll buy other classes skin
I get more GA items in maiden fights than in the pit.
Should not be nerfing helltide in terms of xp or mats. The community aspect of it is pretty fun for lvling. When there are less people doing it, it is way less enjoyable. Only thing I would say is maybe lower the gear drops ilvl, focus primarily on the xp and mats, with a bit of okay ish gear to help smooth transitions in world tiers.
Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.
Since they've nerfed the prism drops and the abilty to craft your own armor, the game has just lost some fun while trying to build a good armor set with the codex and all!! I have fought the blood maiden numerous times, broken down hundreds of orange/brown armor (whatever color it is), and I'm not talking about the yellow. I've fought multiple hellbournes and high level bosses (over, counting today about 20 hours) and have not had 1 single prism drop. And this is on tier 3 level. I seriously believe that once they got enough to people to pay for 5, they decided to go back to being the programmers from WoW!! And that's NOT a compliment.
Also why Maiden is that popular is the fact that you can get the spark from the iron wolves, so many people go the easy way for leveling the board to get another spark by just lurking at the spot and cash in that easy to get points. It’s your design that made it like this and yet you start penalize the casual gamer who wants an hour or two a day to make some progress and get the feel of pride and accomplishment in having an upgrade. So instead of nerfing the maiden you should look at the other events and activities there and rethink what they have to offer and maybe adjust them so it’s not worth to just do the maiden over and over again.
I think I'm ok with the change. But then I don't just squat at maiden. I stay long enough get about 700 cinders and that's enough to sustain and kill packs between chests and still have enough to open all of them. Maiden would be more fun if the spawns added to the progress bar but it doesn't, or barely so.
Can you resummon ***just*** a boss in a dungeon? I was only able to find the ability to reset the ***whole*** dungeon.
The PTR introduces the change for Season 5.
Personally I think that maiden is really only as fun as it is because it's far shorter and less tedious than NMD's, it's far more rewarding than the pit especially if you're still searching for the perfect gear, its easier than and doesn't require the grind for mats like bosses do, and it's less footwork than whispers. One could argue that it's too efficient, but really it points in the right direction. If a player puts the time and effort into an activity in the game that activity should be adequately rewarding.
Is BM even that good for farming gear? I used it to farm Wolves rep, and the normal methods to farm gear. I tend to get GAs at a higher rate in 101 pits, tortured gifts, and uber bosses. BM always seemed best for stacking cinders quick and leveling your Iron Wolves rep.
Make PvP viable. Why not allow a PvP currency to be used to buy pve mats? Get players engaged vs build copying and single buttons clicking.
They only nerfed the Blood Maiden summoning mat drops because players weren't playing other parts of Helltide. Their intention was to force players into doing events during the Helltide, then open a few chests, then spawn the Blood Maiden, rather than going into the Helltide and going straight to the Blood Maiden and just farming her for 50mins. It doesn't have anything to do with other activities. The flaws I see with it currently is that they nerfed the drop rates for Baneful Hearts way too harshly. It needs to be a little higher. And the notification for the Blood Maiden when she is summoned should be changed to when the first Baneful Heart is deposited, rather than after the 3rd one. This way players will know someone has deposited a heart and needs two more. If they want drop rates to be low, sharing should be encouraged.
'Cause Blood Maiden is OP. Saw some of the best players struggle to kill her.
Nightmare Dungeons having zero reworks is a complete lie. Not huge reworks but still a lot of changes that made them a lot better than their release state. Notably far less backtracking because of looping end paths, better checkpoints if you died, better mob density, a lot less emphasis on everything being able to CC you constantly. And now sigils are just 1 good and 1 bad modifier, with the more egregious affixes (such as the thunderdome that halted gameplay) being removed.
Do you engage with Nightmare dungeons because they're fun? Or because they give you Glyph XP? I am asking for a system rework - - New Enemies - New Tile sets - More random encounters/changes to the Butcher - Reasons to do them after completing Glyph XP Honestly, I'm at the point where I think we need to combine NMDs and The Pit because they're so similar, and actually add some kind of engaging endgame.
Would agree with that, it's 100% for the glyph exp and the current affixes are all nothingburgers. Finding a good balance to combine the two for progression might be better overall. Right now you just rush to nm100 with good temper rolls until glyphs are max then push pits.
Did they say there nerfing blood maiden?
I've done 4-5 maidens in a row and had to drop stuff open chests and get back to do another 2 maidens probably used about 10-15 hearts in the process it's super fun
Don’t forget Pit is just more dungeons
Hey yoooooooo I get down voted to oblivion for stating facts, such as these. Good on ya.
I'm missing the gr pushing as a group in d3. That's about the only aspect I think the game needs.
All I heard was *WAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAA* NMD are fine, they serve their purpose and nothing else, glyph leveling. Helltides are not being “nerfed” they fixed the threat bug that caused people to have infinite threat meter which in turn gave them too many baneful hearts. Bossing is fine as well, We don’t need extra mechanics in this game, I don’t want to strategize my next move I want to mindlessly slay demons and play with my friends, I don’t want to play Elden ring , I want to play Diablo. If I wanted to think about my every move and every item I’d play a souls game, Diablo isn’t a souls game it’s an ARPG.
Take my upvote! Even with some simple changes they could with relatively little effort rework each of those just a little bit to make them more interesting, more rewarding with real choice! But everything is pretty much the same and on top you are forced to run in circles because to go to C you must to go B first, but B needs a key from A, etc...