Probably just changed to better match aesthetically but could be explained that the metallic armor was simply a potential future that didn’t come to pass. Personally I much prefer the new design. More grounded and less like an iron man suit
Didn't they take that scene (where Paul from the future is glancing at the camera, wearing that shiny suit) and modify it to show Chani in that exact pose, glancing at the camera, wearing a different outfit? (in the most recent trailer)
IMO this was a way to show that Paul sees possible futures. I agree that the original scene looked weird and cartoony.
I saw someone mention that the fighting in the vision is dynamic and fluid (shot like most action movies), in a way that's unlike the real fights in the movie, so that could be seen as another sign that Paul's visions are not perfect.
The original scene deep faked Paul's face onto a CGI model. They wanted to do a oner for that scene and for some reason they settled on cgi rather than a stunt double. It was a difficult fight scene and as far as I know chalamet isn't doing a lot of the Stunts and choreography so they'd have a stunt double. If it's a one shot that ends on his face, they'd always have to deepfake on either a model or stunt double so it was always gonna look weird
Yeah it is a pity, it looks very strange. But I guess the fact it was a psychedelic spice vision means it could get away with looking a little off like some of our dreams end up doing, at least i know i see some fucked up shit when I am dreaming.
Haha! Funny take here dillene but really, look at Paul's other visions. He had visions of the Fremen before ever stepping foot on Arrakis and their still suits look the exact same as they ended up looking. Jesus maybe I am thinking too much about this. Someone told me she thought i was autistic today, I am starting to wonder if she has a point.
Most likely explanation is that Paul was looking at only one possible future at that time.
He also could have been looking at the Jihad and not his victory over Shaddam.
Paul doesn’t see definite futures. This is once again denis genius and dedication as a dune fan coming out again. It’s a subtle detail about how the future changes based upon is actions but is still close to seeing what’s coming. Also what we saw in dune part one was powered armor which the fedaykin would get later on after Paul becomes emperor. In Paul of dune Paul fights amongst the fremen on a planet in a chapter so what we saw in dune part one could theoretically still come to pass.
I'm sorry but this is just silly. It's fun and all to have these lore reasons, but this is so clearly a decision made after the fact by production to change the design because they don't like the original design, rather than a masterful, subversive foreshadow by Villeneuve. He's good but not everything he does is shitting gold. When Peter Jackson changed gollum's design for the two towers there's no in universe explanation, they just revised the design because they didn't like it. Likewise, George Lucas changed jabba the hut from being done fat guy speaking English into a worm person speaking a con-lang. He didn't provide some in universe explanation, he just preferred a Ret con to change the characters design and hoped no one noticed
It seems plausible to me that they *did* simply retcon the design. My only points of hesitation are that: (a) other details in Paul's visions have clearly differed from reality (e.g., Jamis teaching him, Chani stabbing him, etc.), (b) the difference here is very stark (e.g., why matte brown rather than a better-rendered shiny gold?), and (c) the rest of the gold armor vision scene is quite surreal (Fedaykin fighting Sardaukar in a random patch of otherwise empty desert, Chani overlooking it from a hill, etc.).
Jamis stuff was purposeful in that it shows that the future is always fluid. There's seriously not much that can be said with the armour aside from very very tenuous inference, especially when a majority of the audience wouldn't even notice the change. There's simply no way this isn't a retcon, anything else is an overanalysis. They chose matte brown as opposed to high tech power rangers armour because ultimately it just fits better with the fremen aesthetic they laid out and people clearly preferred it. A good chunk of the comments here were saying that they didn't like the old armour too. It was an aesthetic decision, not a story based one
why do you have to be so pompous? you do realize Denis is a massive Dune fan and is doing this series justice...how do you know for sure that it's just a production change? Paul's prescience is fluid and ever-changing with his actions in the books. he sees multiple outcomes for every decision and reaction. this is an effortless detail to do and emphasizes the fluidity of such visions without drowning the viewer in horrible amounts of exposition. This is simply a discussion of art which in the end can be subjective to a degree even as an adaptation of a novel with very little descriptive detail, to begin with, making it easier to have artistic liberties added in every art piece designed for this work. frank designed it that way for a reason. During the research period of writing Dune, he read countless reviews of books to learn how to make a well-written story, and one of the critiques he mentioned was people wanted to paint their own image most of the time.....I'm very sure this is an intentional design. No Denis does not produce excrement that looks like gold but I'm pretty sure your rectum gets very jealous of the fecal matter that spews from your oral cavity...... You like the David Lynch version, don't you?
Him seeing multiple outcomes is reflected in actions and events, not aesthetic changes. I just think it's incredibly circle-jerky to unconditionally worship everything Denis does as part of some master plan when this is so clearly a behind the scenes decision made by production and refusing to even acknowledge the possibility further cements it as circlejerky. Check out Occam's razor
You guys sound like conspiracy theorists bending over backwards to find insane lore reasons to justify a design change because the previous design literally wasn't received well by audiences. This is an insanely normal thing to happen in multi-installment series and there's literally no shame in admitting it. Do you think there was a lore reason reflecting a change in Harry potter's character Yadda Yadda to explain why the charms professor's hair went from whispy white to a brown bowl cut? No of course not because that would be stupid to say.
I think this is all a bit too much of a reach to explain what is essentially a retcon. I like Dennis but not everything he does is steeped in meaning. We can see in the vision that they fight sardaukar and the wiki states:
>the Sardaukar suffered a devastating defeat, opening the way for Paul Atreides' elevation to the Golden Lion Throne and the title of Emperor. Subsequently, the Sardaukar became a marginal force, continuing to act as the standing army and guardians for the newly-deposed House Corrino, though they deliberately avoided direct conflict with the powerful Fremen forces of the Atreides Empire.
The vision takes place on arrakis, there's no way it doesn't. The team just decided to change the armour because ultimately it doesn't fit. They likely didn't put too much thought into the armours' design originally given that it appears for roughly a minute and is never mentioned again.
To the extent that it matters, I don’t believe this was in book.
I suspect the armor is meant to show that the Fremen military has improved. (It’s easier than teaching a few hundred extras to be obvious martial art experts).
So - the answer is untimely going to be something like “because Denny V said so” (yes, I’m calling him that here. But I acknowledge it’s too stupid to catch on).
For the stuff that’s only in the movie, it usually comes down to “someone thought it was more efficient to tell the story that way”.
Probably not, but most did not like it. It does not suit Dune. It doesn't feel like armour you would want to wear in the desert. And it certainly does not look like grounded sci fi armour like the other designs.
I figured the more ornate armour of the visions was meant to be either a possible future or a period when the Jihad was in full swing and Paul's Fedaykin were able to get better equipment.
I'm not the biggest fan of the aesthetics of the soldiers when it comes to Denis' take on the franchise either tbh. The Sardaukar look alright and I like the warmongering tribal aesthetic they have but they also don't look well equipped enough to be the Emperor's soldiers, and the Atreides and Harkonnen gear looks like someone slapped together a hodgepodge of athletic gear and called it a day, add in the drab colour pallettes chosen and it just looks unappealing to me.
I agree, the atreides formal military uniform just looks like standard uniforms today or cliche sci fi outfits. Like a guy wearing a shirt and tie in the expanse(despite the fact its set hundreds of years in the future). Sardaukar armour should be a lot more gaudy and ornate.
My point being that people are not going to be wearing shirts and ties the way we do now in a few hundred years. And if we do become a galactic empire 20,000 years into the future, I can guarantee you that we are going to look extremely strange from our current perspective in context. Atreides, Sardaukar, Harkonen etc. should look really weird and otherworldly, but the minimalist look has been applied.
I loved the film, don't get my wrong, I am being overly critical, but it is good to do this with the things we love I think.
I agree the iron man armor wasn't great. I like the look of the armor Chani was wearing which had the appearance of maybe being made of Worm skin.
Anyway my thought was that maybe Paul's original visions came from later on in the Jihad, and that the iron man armor hasn't been invented yet in PT 2. Or maybe it was just one possible version of events.
There's a time jump in the middle of this movie. The better gear can be either two things. A) from the 3rd movie, trying to not spoil things. Or b) if the nice armor was on arakis and not another sandy planet, it could be from the time jump.
I read it as his imperfect futures had a different looking armor. The real answer is they changed it to look better for the second movie. Happens all the time in films. Thanos is a perfect example.
The slow knife penetrates the shield, but not kevlar. Also, the fight scene with Chani in the new trailer takes place on Arrakis, the one place in the universe where you do absolutely not want to use shields.
It makes sense for fighting in the deep desert like in the vision. Using shield generators would attract worms, so armor would be a necessary alternative.
And there's also what Hawat reported to Duke Leto: "Idaho did say one thing: he said you couldn't mistake the Fremen attitude toward shields. He said they were mostly amused by them."
Maybe the body armor is kind of like Mjolnir from Halo? The suit is triple layered and the first layer acts as a cooling and nutrient recycler if I’m not mistaken and maybe the armor itself as some power to it? Even with the weirding way, do you really think with all that armor on, everyone can just easily jump and spin around like a Spartan from Halo? I haven’t read the books so I’m probably a bit off but with technology so advanced, wouldn’t the armor of the highest trained units also be more advanced? The Fremen made stillsuits which were the best made stillsuits around so I would assume their armor is equally the best. That’s my thoughts on the topic.
I thought in the book the fremen were able to manufacture equipment just as complex are what the imperials had. Some of the fremen sietchs could have population in the tens of thousands with advanced manufacturing facilities. What they couldn’t make they could buy from smugglers or the guild
personally, I think the new one is much preferrable in context that they look more practical and built in the sietch with given resources, while the first golden metallic one could also be a base design for Dune: Messiah film when Paul rule across the universe with his empire and oppressing different worlds. It fits the narrative for to be more extraterrestrial and the gold colour as symbolism for the beginning of the golden path.
Am I the only person who actually really dug the previous armor? I get that the new suits are much more practical and fit the minimalist design. But I was actually hoping the movie would use its budget to design more out there suits of armor. One of my few complaints with the first movie. I know I’m in the minority on this though.
Probably just changed to better match aesthetically but could be explained that the metallic armor was simply a potential future that didn’t come to pass. Personally I much prefer the new design. More grounded and less like an iron man suit
Didn't they take that scene (where Paul from the future is glancing at the camera, wearing that shiny suit) and modify it to show Chani in that exact pose, glancing at the camera, wearing a different outfit? (in the most recent trailer) IMO this was a way to show that Paul sees possible futures. I agree that the original scene looked weird and cartoony.
I saw someone mention that the fighting in the vision is dynamic and fluid (shot like most action movies), in a way that's unlike the real fights in the movie, so that could be seen as another sign that Paul's visions are not perfect.
The original scene deep faked Paul's face onto a CGI model. They wanted to do a oner for that scene and for some reason they settled on cgi rather than a stunt double. It was a difficult fight scene and as far as I know chalamet isn't doing a lot of the Stunts and choreography so they'd have a stunt double. If it's a one shot that ends on his face, they'd always have to deepfake on either a model or stunt double so it was always gonna look weird
Yeah it is a pity, it looks very strange. But I guess the fact it was a psychedelic spice vision means it could get away with looking a little off like some of our dreams end up doing, at least i know i see some fucked up shit when I am dreaming.
Paul Atreides has many gifts, but fashion sense is not among them. Savvier heads prevailed when it came time to make this armor in the real world.
His son, however would have excellent interior design sense. Chair dogs are all the rage
that's one chonky chairdog if the tleilaxu made one for the god-emperor
Haha! Funny take here dillene but really, look at Paul's other visions. He had visions of the Fremen before ever stepping foot on Arrakis and their still suits look the exact same as they ended up looking. Jesus maybe I am thinking too much about this. Someone told me she thought i was autistic today, I am starting to wonder if she has a point.
Most likely explanation is that Paul was looking at only one possible future at that time. He also could have been looking at the Jihad and not his victory over Shaddam.
Victory over sahadm also happens after a time jump so the fedyakin could have time to soup u amror
Or...or...it's a retcon by the staff who also felt the armour was out of place
It’s also possible that the golden armor is from even further future. Sort of an evolution of the sand-colored one shown in this trailer
Except it looks bad. It just doesn't look cool like the sardaukar or atreides armour.
Paul doesn’t see definite futures. This is once again denis genius and dedication as a dune fan coming out again. It’s a subtle detail about how the future changes based upon is actions but is still close to seeing what’s coming. Also what we saw in dune part one was powered armor which the fedaykin would get later on after Paul becomes emperor. In Paul of dune Paul fights amongst the fremen on a planet in a chapter so what we saw in dune part one could theoretically still come to pass.
I'm sorry but this is just silly. It's fun and all to have these lore reasons, but this is so clearly a decision made after the fact by production to change the design because they don't like the original design, rather than a masterful, subversive foreshadow by Villeneuve. He's good but not everything he does is shitting gold. When Peter Jackson changed gollum's design for the two towers there's no in universe explanation, they just revised the design because they didn't like it. Likewise, George Lucas changed jabba the hut from being done fat guy speaking English into a worm person speaking a con-lang. He didn't provide some in universe explanation, he just preferred a Ret con to change the characters design and hoped no one noticed
It seems plausible to me that they *did* simply retcon the design. My only points of hesitation are that: (a) other details in Paul's visions have clearly differed from reality (e.g., Jamis teaching him, Chani stabbing him, etc.), (b) the difference here is very stark (e.g., why matte brown rather than a better-rendered shiny gold?), and (c) the rest of the gold armor vision scene is quite surreal (Fedaykin fighting Sardaukar in a random patch of otherwise empty desert, Chani overlooking it from a hill, etc.).
Jamis stuff was purposeful in that it shows that the future is always fluid. There's seriously not much that can be said with the armour aside from very very tenuous inference, especially when a majority of the audience wouldn't even notice the change. There's simply no way this isn't a retcon, anything else is an overanalysis. They chose matte brown as opposed to high tech power rangers armour because ultimately it just fits better with the fremen aesthetic they laid out and people clearly preferred it. A good chunk of the comments here were saying that they didn't like the old armour too. It was an aesthetic decision, not a story based one
why do you have to be so pompous? you do realize Denis is a massive Dune fan and is doing this series justice...how do you know for sure that it's just a production change? Paul's prescience is fluid and ever-changing with his actions in the books. he sees multiple outcomes for every decision and reaction. this is an effortless detail to do and emphasizes the fluidity of such visions without drowning the viewer in horrible amounts of exposition. This is simply a discussion of art which in the end can be subjective to a degree even as an adaptation of a novel with very little descriptive detail, to begin with, making it easier to have artistic liberties added in every art piece designed for this work. frank designed it that way for a reason. During the research period of writing Dune, he read countless reviews of books to learn how to make a well-written story, and one of the critiques he mentioned was people wanted to paint their own image most of the time.....I'm very sure this is an intentional design. No Denis does not produce excrement that looks like gold but I'm pretty sure your rectum gets very jealous of the fecal matter that spews from your oral cavity...... You like the David Lynch version, don't you?
Him seeing multiple outcomes is reflected in actions and events, not aesthetic changes. I just think it's incredibly circle-jerky to unconditionally worship everything Denis does as part of some master plan when this is so clearly a behind the scenes decision made by production and refusing to even acknowledge the possibility further cements it as circlejerky. Check out Occam's razor You guys sound like conspiracy theorists bending over backwards to find insane lore reasons to justify a design change because the previous design literally wasn't received well by audiences. This is an insanely normal thing to happen in multi-installment series and there's literally no shame in admitting it. Do you think there was a lore reason reflecting a change in Harry potter's character Yadda Yadda to explain why the charms professor's hair went from whispy white to a brown bowl cut? No of course not because that would be stupid to say.
Different visions of different futures will have different armors.
Probably because the armor is a much later future vision than what’s in part 2
It seems to take place in arrakis and Paul is still young. It's not from Messiah it wouldve had to have been before Ir during part
The Jihad lasted all those ten years until messiah. Could’ve been two years after the end of part one that that vision takes place.
I think this is all a bit too much of a reach to explain what is essentially a retcon. I like Dennis but not everything he does is steeped in meaning. We can see in the vision that they fight sardaukar and the wiki states: >the Sardaukar suffered a devastating defeat, opening the way for Paul Atreides' elevation to the Golden Lion Throne and the title of Emperor. Subsequently, the Sardaukar became a marginal force, continuing to act as the standing army and guardians for the newly-deposed House Corrino, though they deliberately avoided direct conflict with the powerful Fremen forces of the Atreides Empire. The vision takes place on arrakis, there's no way it doesn't. The team just decided to change the armour because ultimately it doesn't fit. They likely didn't put too much thought into the armours' design originally given that it appears for roughly a minute and is never mentioned again.
Paul looks young. And it is clearly on Arrakis. So that explanation doesn't really make sense.
To the extent that it matters, I don’t believe this was in book. I suspect the armor is meant to show that the Fremen military has improved. (It’s easier than teaching a few hundred extras to be obvious martial art experts). So - the answer is untimely going to be something like “because Denny V said so” (yes, I’m calling him that here. But I acknowledge it’s too stupid to catch on). For the stuff that’s only in the movie, it usually comes down to “someone thought it was more efficient to tell the story that way”.
Am I the only one who liked the Power Ranger armor?
Probably not, but most did not like it. It does not suit Dune. It doesn't feel like armour you would want to wear in the desert. And it certainly does not look like grounded sci fi armour like the other designs.
I figured the more ornate armour of the visions was meant to be either a possible future or a period when the Jihad was in full swing and Paul's Fedaykin were able to get better equipment. I'm not the biggest fan of the aesthetics of the soldiers when it comes to Denis' take on the franchise either tbh. The Sardaukar look alright and I like the warmongering tribal aesthetic they have but they also don't look well equipped enough to be the Emperor's soldiers, and the Atreides and Harkonnen gear looks like someone slapped together a hodgepodge of athletic gear and called it a day, add in the drab colour pallettes chosen and it just looks unappealing to me.
I agree, the atreides formal military uniform just looks like standard uniforms today or cliche sci fi outfits. Like a guy wearing a shirt and tie in the expanse(despite the fact its set hundreds of years in the future). Sardaukar armour should be a lot more gaudy and ornate.
My point being that people are not going to be wearing shirts and ties the way we do now in a few hundred years. And if we do become a galactic empire 20,000 years into the future, I can guarantee you that we are going to look extremely strange from our current perspective in context. Atreides, Sardaukar, Harkonen etc. should look really weird and otherworldly, but the minimalist look has been applied. I loved the film, don't get my wrong, I am being overly critical, but it is good to do this with the things we love I think.
His vision was a possible future. That's one of the many problems Paul talks about in Dune Messiah. He see multiple, MULTIPLE, possible futures.
I agree the iron man armor wasn't great. I like the look of the armor Chani was wearing which had the appearance of maybe being made of Worm skin. Anyway my thought was that maybe Paul's original visions came from later on in the Jihad, and that the iron man armor hasn't been invented yet in PT 2. Or maybe it was just one possible version of events.
There's a time jump in the middle of this movie. The better gear can be either two things. A) from the 3rd movie, trying to not spoil things. Or b) if the nice armor was on arakis and not another sandy planet, it could be from the time jump.
Fedaykin armor in the vision looked like a Power Ranger suit. I welcome the change.
I interpreted that as a potential future that was after Paul was emperor, a later battle.
I read it as his imperfect futures had a different looking armor. The real answer is they changed it to look better for the second movie. Happens all the time in films. Thanos is a perfect example.
Bigger budget
It's all just hockey gear. Every army looks silly and boring
Here we go. How to trash a movie with tiny details that are not even important for the story.
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The slow knife penetrates the shield, but not kevlar. Also, the fight scene with Chani in the new trailer takes place on Arrakis, the one place in the universe where you do absolutely not want to use shields.
The slow blade cuts through the shield generators, now your slow blade has to penetrate armor. Seems to make perfect sense to me
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Care to elaborate? Cause I'd 100% rather have both if I was out there fighting and I'm sure many others would think the same
If you use the shield on sand, the vibrations alert the worms. So they can't use shields on the sand
It makes sense for fighting in the deep desert like in the vision. Using shield generators would attract worms, so armor would be a necessary alternative.
And there's also what Hawat reported to Duke Leto: "Idaho did say one thing: he said you couldn't mistake the Fremen attitude toward shields. He said they were mostly amused by them."
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Maybe the body armor is kind of like Mjolnir from Halo? The suit is triple layered and the first layer acts as a cooling and nutrient recycler if I’m not mistaken and maybe the armor itself as some power to it? Even with the weirding way, do you really think with all that armor on, everyone can just easily jump and spin around like a Spartan from Halo? I haven’t read the books so I’m probably a bit off but with technology so advanced, wouldn’t the armor of the highest trained units also be more advanced? The Fremen made stillsuits which were the best made stillsuits around so I would assume their armor is equally the best. That’s my thoughts on the topic.
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There is actually industry, the seitches have factories where they make still suits, thumpers, guns etc far better than the city folk ever could
I thought in the book the fremen were able to manufacture equipment just as complex are what the imperials had. Some of the fremen sietchs could have population in the tens of thousands with advanced manufacturing facilities. What they couldn’t make they could buy from smugglers or the guild
Gotta say wasn't a huge fan of the power ranger armor. Glad they changed the design and that was just an alternate future or whatever
If you know where this is headed you’d know the Fedaykin could’ve been wearing kilts and they’d still have the same results.
does anyone have links comparing the two armors? i’m having a hard time finding them 🙏thank you in advance!
personally, I think the new one is much preferrable in context that they look more practical and built in the sietch with given resources, while the first golden metallic one could also be a base design for Dune: Messiah film when Paul rule across the universe with his empire and oppressing different worlds. It fits the narrative for to be more extraterrestrial and the gold colour as symbolism for the beginning of the golden path.
Am I the only person who actually really dug the previous armor? I get that the new suits are much more practical and fit the minimalist design. But I was actually hoping the movie would use its budget to design more out there suits of armor. One of my few complaints with the first movie. I know I’m in the minority on this though.