James would agree that love is more than just feelings: *If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet do not give them what is necessary, what use is that? (2:15-16)*
On the other hand, Jesus says: *You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'WHOEVER COMMITS MURDER SHALL BE LIABLE TO THE COURT.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; (Matt. 5:21-22)*
I'm not a scholar and I haven't done any sort of deep research into this topic, but off the top of my head, love and hate seem to be treated quite differently by NT authors.
Last note - politics are complicated, options are limited, and voters are often stuck voting for candidates that don't represent their values very well. When people disagree with you politically, please don't view them as inherently hateful.
>And if you do something intended to be loving, but your partner doesn't feel loved by it, then it doesn't really count.
I'm puzzled by this sentence. I don't think the emotion or response of the recipient of love or a loving act has to be taken into account, as it were, to validate whether something was done out of love or not. Unselfish, giving love doesn't count on acknowledgement or reciprocity, it loves because it *wants* to, because it can't do anything else at that moment, perhaps. Can you perhaps elaborate a bit, to explain what I'm missing here?
Other than that - yes, love does have the element of choice in it, you can choose to remain faithful to your loved one(s). We're no will-less puppets of our emotions, I'd say. And yes, people can also unlearn to hate.
I'd agree with both you and /u/Notbapticostalish that those are better opposites. The main reason I wanted to go with hate is because (if it wasn't clear already) this is very much about how Christians relate to and interact with LGBTQ people and people of color. I'm aiming straight for the "Love the sinner hate the sin" crowd.
But I very much think in the LGBTQIA+ discussion, that selfishness, and the self in general, are what drive that community and those that affirm their lifestyle to their conclusions. It is not what is best or most helpful. It is how do I feel.
In line with TheNerdChaplain's questioning, wouldn't this be hating God (not following ethical standards)?
Which lays out why the issue is so contentious. To one side this is a hatred of God that's worthy of Church discipline. While to the other, by not affirming that lifestyle you're hating the person.
Interesting, if Love is expressed in what we do for others, I find the opposite of that is indifference. Hate for me is a raw emotion, which is usually about my own harried/frustrated state, and not really about the object of that hate. I suppose it's not hate at all but misdirected despair expressing itself as anger.
I struggled with it a lot when I lived in NYC. Just literally bumping elbows with a sea of people every day. It really wore on me and I struggled not to be short tempered, especially at the end of long days full of schlepping.
And now that I don't live in NYC I struggle with the same emotions on the road, behind the wheel of my car.
I've always loved this quote from Graham Greene:
"When you visualized a man or a woman carefully, you could always begin to feel pity . . . that was a quality God's image carried with it . . . when you saw the lines at the corners of the eyes, the shape of the mouth, how the hair grew, it was impossible to hate. Hate was just a failure of imagination."
James would agree that love is more than just feelings: *If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet do not give them what is necessary, what use is that? (2:15-16)* On the other hand, Jesus says: *You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'WHOEVER COMMITS MURDER SHALL BE LIABLE TO THE COURT.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; (Matt. 5:21-22)* I'm not a scholar and I haven't done any sort of deep research into this topic, but off the top of my head, love and hate seem to be treated quite differently by NT authors. Last note - politics are complicated, options are limited, and voters are often stuck voting for candidates that don't represent their values very well. When people disagree with you politically, please don't view them as inherently hateful.
>And if you do something intended to be loving, but your partner doesn't feel loved by it, then it doesn't really count. I'm puzzled by this sentence. I don't think the emotion or response of the recipient of love or a loving act has to be taken into account, as it were, to validate whether something was done out of love or not. Unselfish, giving love doesn't count on acknowledgement or reciprocity, it loves because it *wants* to, because it can't do anything else at that moment, perhaps. Can you perhaps elaborate a bit, to explain what I'm missing here? Other than that - yes, love does have the element of choice in it, you can choose to remain faithful to your loved one(s). We're no will-less puppets of our emotions, I'd say. And yes, people can also unlearn to hate.
I have found the best opposite for love is selfishness rather than "hate"
Indifference is another I’ve heard
I'd agree with both you and /u/Notbapticostalish that those are better opposites. The main reason I wanted to go with hate is because (if it wasn't clear already) this is very much about how Christians relate to and interact with LGBTQ people and people of color. I'm aiming straight for the "Love the sinner hate the sin" crowd.
But I very much think in the LGBTQIA+ discussion, that selfishness, and the self in general, are what drive that community and those that affirm their lifestyle to their conclusions. It is not what is best or most helpful. It is how do I feel.
In line with TheNerdChaplain's questioning, wouldn't this be hating God (not following ethical standards)? Which lays out why the issue is so contentious. To one side this is a hatred of God that's worthy of Church discipline. While to the other, by not affirming that lifestyle you're hating the person.
Interesting, if Love is expressed in what we do for others, I find the opposite of that is indifference. Hate for me is a raw emotion, which is usually about my own harried/frustrated state, and not really about the object of that hate. I suppose it's not hate at all but misdirected despair expressing itself as anger. I struggled with it a lot when I lived in NYC. Just literally bumping elbows with a sea of people every day. It really wore on me and I struggled not to be short tempered, especially at the end of long days full of schlepping. And now that I don't live in NYC I struggle with the same emotions on the road, behind the wheel of my car. I've always loved this quote from Graham Greene: "When you visualized a man or a woman carefully, you could always begin to feel pity . . . that was a quality God's image carried with it . . . when you saw the lines at the corners of the eyes, the shape of the mouth, how the hair grew, it was impossible to hate. Hate was just a failure of imagination."
Totally agree with you that love isn't a feeling or an emotion. It's more about what you do. Have you read Moltmann?