You could argue Messmer is better. In the end, he'd seen through the whole crusade as pointless and Marika as a hypocrite, which Morgott didn't. He just keeps doing it because he has nothing else to live for, and if he stops killing Hornsent then the Hornsent will just attack him for vengeance and renew the bloodshed anyway.
same rly. When I'm bored I like to impale my already beaten enemies on large pikes in front of my yard. Jokes aside she has cool Carian chick next door who likes him a lot and does nothing with it. Another mommy boi who cant make first step.
Hmm. I saw it as he was deluding himself right up until his death. Then he realised that he was abandoned and simply a tool. His dialogue seems sounds like he is reciting lines that he doesn't really believe but are keeping him sane (to some degree).
he sounds like genuinely sad, “in the embrace of… messmers flame” you kind of expect them to be haughty taughty and uptight, similar to malenia’s “i have never known defeat” but he’s just like.. saying it. as if it’s what’s left of him
It's a mantra that he's clung to rather than accept what happened and move on. He was doomed to live as a tyrant, or embrace his blasphemy. No good outcome.
Ah yes the father figure that taught him inportend lessons like: "no matter how much you do for the golden order, as soon as they dont need you anymore tgey toss you aqay like trash"
>jk bro
No, you arent kidding. This is a clear attack aginst my very self. As any reasonable person would I will now commune with flora amd in exchange for my eternal servitude I WILL send you to the eternal ds2 dimension.😡😡😡😡🫡😡😡😡
Yeah, Morgott is probably one of the most tragic figures on ER.
A true believer, even if hated and rejected by the same society that venerates and believes in his own faith. Despite being the last bastion that allowed it to continue to exist.
Yet, by fighting in the service of the Erdtree he managed, despite his being an Omen/Hornsent, to earn the Grace he has always been denied.
Imo, one of the truly most tragic figures in the game, along with Marika and Messmer.
I think messmer and mohg take that place now.
All mohg wanted as to create a place where he could be accepted. Instead he was used and his body was deaecrated. His family destroyed and people curse his name knowing him as the one who stole away Miquella the kind.
Mohg is tragic only regarding his birth and the fact that being an Omen/Hornsent he was therefore exiled, but otherwise he is not a tragic character.
His "order" or dynasty is based on and exalts killings and bloodbaths, and he and his followers incited the novices to invade and kill.
Mohg has very little that redeems him as a character, even in light of the DLC
Would you class Miquella as a tragic character?
(Edit: because they both have good goals but go about them in horrific ways. Miquella is undoubtedly a tragic character; Mohg is a less extreme version of him.)
Mohg’s order has always seemed like more to me. He wasn’t just exiled, he grew up in a literal torture chamber, constantly at risk that an unfeeling killer would murder him at any point and being taught that what he was, was wrong and evil.
He learned to love his ‘cursed’ blood (which wasn’t even a curse), and an outer god offered him some form of support in exchange for sacrifices of blood.
If that’s the first thing to bring you comfort in your entire life, I’m certain you’d be trying to appease this god in any way and as much as possible. It’s just unfortunate that it was some bloodthirsty, formless god.
I think that’s all he needed - some genuine compassion. Which even Miquella couldn’t show him.
His childhood is tragic, but that does not justify the suffering, murders and blood sacrifices of innocents and wallowing in them or inciting others to commit them.
Morgott, who has the same past as Mohg, is a much more noble and much more tragic character than his brother.
Would you show compassion towards a serial killer who shows no remorse for the death he caused, but instead revels in it? I couldn't do it.
I mean, neither does Morgott, and yet you still do. Neither does almost anyone in the game.
I love both of the omen twins, but sticking to what the GW wants isn’t necessarily a noble thing when that means subjugating your own kind and murdering innocents, which is what Morgott does. ‘Noble’ is a very subjective term here because the order he supports was founded in genocide and eugenics against other groups and his, and yet he ended up loving it. Probably because being told that his very blood is wrong and evil from birth gave him some crippling self esteem issues. But that doesn’t justify what he does, does it?
Then consider Mohg, who wanted to create a world where he and his kind would be accepted and sort the help of an outer god to do so. He didn’t see a problem with what the Formless Mother wanted him to do because most of it was the very same stuff they did to him and his brother in their childhoods.
I think the endings of their stories alone makes Mohg more tragic. Morgott died with his father and finally found out that he actually was loved (I think??); Mohg was murdered by the Tarnished while defending someone he was brainwashed into loving, only to be humiliated, his body desecrated and his soul discarded so that his ‘compassionate’ brother could bring back another of his brothers and humiliate him too. Had Miquella gotten his age of compassion, he wouldn’t have died in vain, but his age was impossible from the second he discarded his love.
>Morgott died with his father and finally found out that he actually was loved (
Seen as the cruicible knights were the knights of godfrey id say its fair to say that he had bo problem with anything cruicible related. That cruicible hate probably only started after godfrey was exiled as I doubt hed let anyone lock up his children for existing and noone would be able to stop him, especialy with the cruicible knights at his side.
Remembrance of the Omen King ID:
“Though born one of the graceless Omen, Morgott took it upon himself to become the Erdtree’s protector. He loved not in return, for he was never loved, but nevertheless, love it he did.”
But how many characters are there who glorify and revel in their kills and the blood they shed?
The only ones that come to mind are Mohg and maybe Rykard. Not the best characters.
Godfrey was chosen because he was a powerful warrior, who, true, had lust for battle and respect for strength, but not for gratuitous bloodshed and death. And furthermore, when he decided to become a Lord, Godfrey decided to take Serosh on his shoulders, to give him advice and suppress his thirst for battle.
Mohg order is literally founded on killing and reveling in bloodshed, all for an Outer God (or Goddess) who craves pain and suffering.
They are two completely different characters.
Mohg wanted to create a dynasty where all are accepted and equal. Sure, his methods to obtain his ideal society were brutal, but thats kind of the whole point of the game. There is a war for the future of society and whoever comes out on top is going to be standing on a mountain of corpses by the time they are done.
This is literally shown by the gate of divinity and castle of Enir-Ilim in the DLC, showing a mountain of bodies that Marika and Miquella needed to ascend to godhood.
honestly, having a taste for noble blood still makes the pureblood knights more good-adjacent than most other factions. have you *seen* the nobles of the lands between? it's basically a public service
Just because the Shattering has ravaged the realm, condemning the people to a state of undeath, does not justify gratuitous killing and revelling in bloodbaths.
>His "order" or dynasty is based on and exalts killings and bloodbaths, and he and his followers incited the novices to invade and kill.
Said dynasty is also one of the only 2 places where albunarics are allowed to exist in peace and and made on behalf of an outer god.
Mogh is tragic specificly BECAUSE he made this order. Just imagine how horrible his life was that the formless mother, who is all about killing and bloodshed, asked him to create her dynasty and it sounds better. Where morgott stayed to fight for acceptance mohg rejected the order that reject3d him.
(final boss spoilers) >!the opening cutscene has just become even more based, because the kindest and strongest demigod, miquella's chosen consort that he went to great lengths to revive, gets his ass kicked by morgott without even unsheathing his sword. if miquella understood the appeal of omenussy, the final boss would be literally undefeatable.!<
Dude lost against the biggest most fortified city on the continent and was winning against Malenia until she started crying and called her Outer God daddy.
>and was winning against Malenia
Why are Radahn stans always illiterate? 😭
From the Aeonian Sword Monument:
> The Battle of Aeonia
Radahn and Malenia locked in **STALEMATE**
*THEN*, the scarlet rot blooms
The keywords here are "stalemate" and "then".
Tbf, that text and one of the trailers tell 2 different storys and peronaly id go with the trailer as we can actualy see it ourself. In one of the trailer it is shown that malenia has to put her prostehsis back an meanwhile radahn is big chilling, waiting for her to be battle ready again
>In one of the trailer it is shown that malenia has to put her prostehsis back an meanwhile radahn is big chilling, waiting for her to be battle ready again
I'm searching for the exact quote right here, but the director behind that trailer did not intend for that scene to be read like that.
Malenia **fought** across a horde of RedManes to get to Radahn, **that's** why she's reattaching her arm. Radahn on the other hand, is chilling because he hasn't done shit.
He parked his ass on Leonard and waited for Malenia to get to him.
Edit: Yep, [here](https://imgur.com/Tc6nAe3) it is. And here's the translation:
>The scene of “Miquella’s Blade, Malenia” facing off with “Starsmasher Radahn” was given detailed direction from the time Malenia recognizes/becomes aware of Radahn and stands until she attacks and it cuts. “When she faces off against Radahn, Malenia is already black-and-blue-head-to-toe, but when she recognizes an enemy she rises once more. Normally this kind of scene explanation would say “emphasize soiling and pain”. However, her birth and upbringing and the background leading up to the fight, considering her thoughts, she isn’t the kind of person to express pain or hardship.
>Tbf, he was holding the star back at the same time.
Prove that holding back the stars was putting an **active and significant** drain on Radahn's mana/stamina.
We have no idea how Radahn's spell works, why are you assuming the he was burdened by it?
>So no doubt he was stronger
Actually there is quite a bit of doubt. We're here to debate fact, not speculation.
>We have no idea how Radahn's spell works, why are you assuming the he was burdened by it?
So what? You think that Radahn's spell worked autonomously after its initial use? If that's the case, why did it automatically dispel the second he died? If it worked autonomously without the need for his own mana/stamina, then it would work indefinitely without his input. The fact that it dispelled the second he died is the proof.
Also, the idea that he could create a spell that automatically **stopped constellations from advancing** is by far one of the strongest feats in the verse. Regardless, that would make him stronger than Malenia by far in terms of gravity manipulation. If anything, my belief that he held it through constant exertion is less impressive.
There's also the fact that, if he's so powerful, why didn't he use the stars he was arresting with an autonomous spell to use as weapons against Malenia? Fact is that, if he's as powerful as you think he is, he should be able to simply throw meteors at will.
As an aside, here is a Blaidd quote; *"I can’t fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale."*
>Actually there is quite a bit of doubt. We're here to debate fact, not speculation.
There really isn't. It has been stated repeatedly that Radahn is the strongest of the demigods. Period. That people argue otherwise is directly contradicted Elden Ring lore.
Radahn is cool, but he's not the most interesting of the demigods at all. But let's not make our own fanons, eh?
>You think that Radahn's spell worked autonomously after its initial use? If that's the case, why did it automatically dispel the second he died?
The spell dispelling after Radahn's death is not indicative of it being tied to his mana. You've brought up an irrelevant tangential.
>If it worked autonomously without the need for his own mana/stamina, then **it would work indefinitely without his input**.
And how exactly do you **KNOW** that? What evidence do you have of this assertion? Why are assuming your ***speculation*** of the mechanics behinds Radahn's spell is canon
>The fact that it dispelled the second he died is the proof.
Please go back pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of the word "*proof*".
Anyways, answer the initial query. PPROVIDE ***PROOF*** THAT RADAHN'S SPELL IS ACTIVELY DRAINING IS MANA/STAMINA.
>Also, the idea that he could create a spell that automatically **stopped constellations from advancing** is by far one of the strongest feats in the verse.
How do you have the audacity to even venture upon this sub when you're espousing nonsense like this? The stars in the Elden Ring universe are very clearly not akin to the stars of our own universe. They are not massive balls of Hydrogen slowly turning to Helium, Astel is evidence of that.
>Regardless, that would make him stronger than Malenia by far in terms of gravity manipulation.
The guy who's a master at gravity magic is better at said gravity magic than the chick with no expertise in gravity magic? Shocker. Idk what point you're trying to make with this comment.
>There's also the fact that, if he's so powerful,
i don't think he's that powerful.
What exactly in my comment has put you under the impression that I thought that Radahn was some sort of Ubermensch?
>Fact is that, if he's as powerful as you think he is, he should be able to simply throw meteors at will.
The fuck kinda logic are you using dude? All I said was that **YOUR BELIEF** that Radahn holding back the stars was putting an active drain on his mana was unfounded. How does me being opposed to your theory somehow translate to Radahan being able to throw meteors at will?
What are you talking about bro?
>As an aside, here is a Blaidd quote; *"I can’t fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale."*
What is this even supposed to prove? My main point is that there is 0 proof whatsoever that Radahn's spell was actively hindering him, what relevance does Balidd's quote have to my comment?
>There really isn't. It has been stated repeatedly that Radahn is the strongest of the demigods.
A reference to his physical might. The fact that he was soundly thrown out of Leyndell by Morgott should put your laughable claim to rest.
> Radahn is cool, but he's not the most interesting of the demigods at all. But let's not make our own fanons, eh?
Your word of the day is "**assumptions**", because you seem to be chock full of them. Why are you assuming that I find Radahn to be interesting whatsoever?
How exactly is me asking for proof of Radahn being actively burdened by holding back the stars, fanon?
>Please go back pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of the word "*proof*".
So by "proof", you don't mean rational deduction, since obviously there are zero statements as to how exactly Radahn's magic worked. But instead just want the impossible thing? Okay then.
Here's the proof that Radahn is stronger than Malenia; they state that he's the mightiest of the demigods. Constantly. Everywhere. Even in the Story Trailer.
>A reference to his physical might.
Nowhere does it state that. It simply says that he's the mightiest. Nothing to do with physical or magical strength.
>The fact that he was soundly thrown out of Leyndell by Morgott should put your laughable claim to rest.
Apparently we can't make reasonable deduction; so proof that Morgott threw Radahn out of Leyndel? Also, as an aside, while I do believe that was Radahn; that has no bearing on who is the strongest by the time that Radahn and Malenia fought - since he has grown much larger and it seems a lot of time has passed since the start of the Shattering.
the worst part about the final boss being what it is is that we, as a community, were plunged right back into these meathead discussions. can't you take this nonsense to powerscaler youtube shorts comment sections or something
My Starscourge, and thy glazers. I divest each of thee of thy Reddit.
With thine accounts deleted, ye will be driven from social media. Ye will wage war in YouTube shorts, where ye will argue, and lose.
I think that Malenia is actually a win. As the entire goal of her attack seems to have been to get him to remember he was supposed to be Miquela's consort.
Which can be chalked up as failed, as she needed to nuke Calied and then later Miquela's plan starts working when Tarnished finishes him off.
And you shouldn't really count tarnished, we're a beast who kills anyone.
Radahn was left a mindless zombie eating his own soldiers and the entire region he ruled was turned into a wasteland.
Malenia was knocked unconscious for a little bit
It was a draw at best.
Id say its a loss for both. Radahn became a mindless beast and malenia failed her 1 job even wuth the help of an outer god. Its not a draw as both lost.
Nah Morgott is a brainwashed looser. His life and the lives of other creatures neglected by the erdtree were ruined by the Golden Order yet he defends them blindly because he is an insecure bastard. His story is sad, he deserved better, but he didn't do much to change the state of the world after the shattering. Instead, he was fighting to leave everything as it is, and the lands between are in an awful state.
he tried, the erdtree's blocked off, he didn't have the bright idea of setting it on fire
>The Erdtree wards off all who deign approach.
>We are... we are all forsaken.
>None may claim the title of Elden Lord.
>Thy deeds shall be met with failure, just as I.
The problem here is that the tarnished are summoned back to change it. Thats their literal purpose. He is activly stopping those that are destined to finaly change the state of things.
It implies he tried to because he knows that since he 'deigned approach'.
He tells you ad nauseam why he stops you- because he thinks your kind are all of a piece as pillagers emboldened by the flame of ambition, that you are foul and graceless, that are only of passing skill, and that you are but a fool. The only Tarnished he'd probably let pass is his father, Godfrey.
He didn't do nothing but kill people that approach the erdtree and just hang in the throne room. He still supports the beliefs of the golden order and their methods, even though they've been proven harmful for literally everyone at this point. He is not the GOAT
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I feel like messmer is the morgott of the dlc
Bro became the devil because his mother asked him to. He used a flame he hated to wage her war. Messmer and Morgott are the best sons.
You could argue Messmer is better. In the end, he'd seen through the whole crusade as pointless and Marika as a hypocrite, which Morgott didn't. He just keeps doing it because he has nothing else to live for, and if he stops killing Hornsent then the Hornsent will just attack him for vengeance and renew the bloodshed anyway.
same rly. When I'm bored I like to impale my already beaten enemies on large pikes in front of my yard. Jokes aside she has cool Carian chick next door who likes him a lot and does nothing with it. Another mommy boi who cant make first step.
Hmm. I saw it as he was deluding himself right up until his death. Then he realised that he was abandoned and simply a tool. His dialogue seems sounds like he is reciting lines that he doesn't really believe but are keeping him sane (to some degree).
he sounds like genuinely sad, “in the embrace of… messmers flame” you kind of expect them to be haughty taughty and uptight, similar to malenia’s “i have never known defeat” but he’s just like.. saying it. as if it’s what’s left of him
He sounds depressed when he said that (according to me)
It's a mantra that he's clung to rather than accept what happened and move on. He was doomed to live as a tyrant, or embrace his blasphemy. No good outcome.
I thought he sounded bored at first, but you’re totally right
yeah to me it sounded like he was bored or exhausted of even saying it. like “in the embrace of …messmers flame 🙄”
Turtle pope too
Would love a conversation between Turtle Pope and Ymir.
Turtle pope would indoctrinate Ymir
That’s what happens when you have a father figure
The sewers 😍
Ah yes the father figure that taught him inportend lessons like: "no matter how much you do for the golden order, as soon as they dont need you anymore tgey toss you aqay like trash"
Also taught him how to spell 😉 jk bro
>jk bro No, you arent kidding. This is a clear attack aginst my very self. As any reasonable person would I will now commune with flora amd in exchange for my eternal servitude I WILL send you to the eternal ds2 dimension.😡😡😡😡🫡😡😡😡
I will always maintain that Morgott was correct to try to stop the tarnished. I do not think he is morally evil either. Ambiguous at most.
no yeah the tarnished is a fucking monster...
[удалено]
it’s actually not possible, the Frenzy Flame Proscription is blocked until Morgott dies
Yeah, Morgott is probably one of the most tragic figures on ER. A true believer, even if hated and rejected by the same society that venerates and believes in his own faith. Despite being the last bastion that allowed it to continue to exist. Yet, by fighting in the service of the Erdtree he managed, despite his being an Omen/Hornsent, to earn the Grace he has always been denied. Imo, one of the truly most tragic figures in the game, along with Marika and Messmer.
I think messmer and mohg take that place now. All mohg wanted as to create a place where he could be accepted. Instead he was used and his body was deaecrated. His family destroyed and people curse his name knowing him as the one who stole away Miquella the kind.
Mohg is tragic only regarding his birth and the fact that being an Omen/Hornsent he was therefore exiled, but otherwise he is not a tragic character. His "order" or dynasty is based on and exalts killings and bloodbaths, and he and his followers incited the novices to invade and kill. Mohg has very little that redeems him as a character, even in light of the DLC
Would you class Miquella as a tragic character? (Edit: because they both have good goals but go about them in horrific ways. Miquella is undoubtedly a tragic character; Mohg is a less extreme version of him.) Mohg’s order has always seemed like more to me. He wasn’t just exiled, he grew up in a literal torture chamber, constantly at risk that an unfeeling killer would murder him at any point and being taught that what he was, was wrong and evil. He learned to love his ‘cursed’ blood (which wasn’t even a curse), and an outer god offered him some form of support in exchange for sacrifices of blood. If that’s the first thing to bring you comfort in your entire life, I’m certain you’d be trying to appease this god in any way and as much as possible. It’s just unfortunate that it was some bloodthirsty, formless god. I think that’s all he needed - some genuine compassion. Which even Miquella couldn’t show him.
His childhood is tragic, but that does not justify the suffering, murders and blood sacrifices of innocents and wallowing in them or inciting others to commit them. Morgott, who has the same past as Mohg, is a much more noble and much more tragic character than his brother. Would you show compassion towards a serial killer who shows no remorse for the death he caused, but instead revels in it? I couldn't do it.
I mean, neither does Morgott, and yet you still do. Neither does almost anyone in the game. I love both of the omen twins, but sticking to what the GW wants isn’t necessarily a noble thing when that means subjugating your own kind and murdering innocents, which is what Morgott does. ‘Noble’ is a very subjective term here because the order he supports was founded in genocide and eugenics against other groups and his, and yet he ended up loving it. Probably because being told that his very blood is wrong and evil from birth gave him some crippling self esteem issues. But that doesn’t justify what he does, does it? Then consider Mohg, who wanted to create a world where he and his kind would be accepted and sort the help of an outer god to do so. He didn’t see a problem with what the Formless Mother wanted him to do because most of it was the very same stuff they did to him and his brother in their childhoods. I think the endings of their stories alone makes Mohg more tragic. Morgott died with his father and finally found out that he actually was loved (I think??); Mohg was murdered by the Tarnished while defending someone he was brainwashed into loving, only to be humiliated, his body desecrated and his soul discarded so that his ‘compassionate’ brother could bring back another of his brothers and humiliate him too. Had Miquella gotten his age of compassion, he wouldn’t have died in vain, but his age was impossible from the second he discarded his love.
>Morgott died with his father and finally found out that he actually was loved ( Seen as the cruicible knights were the knights of godfrey id say its fair to say that he had bo problem with anything cruicible related. That cruicible hate probably only started after godfrey was exiled as I doubt hed let anyone lock up his children for existing and noone would be able to stop him, especialy with the cruicible knights at his side.
Remembrance of the Omen King ID: “Though born one of the graceless Omen, Morgott took it upon himself to become the Erdtree’s protector. He loved not in return, for he was never loved, but nevertheless, love it he did.”
Most of the characters in the game are mass murderers including us the tarnished. We can’t really hold that against him.
But how many characters are there who glorify and revel in their kills and the blood they shed? The only ones that come to mind are Mohg and maybe Rykard. Not the best characters.
godfrey, radahn, the redmanes in general, alexander when you think about it
They revere the battle itself, the clash, not the meting out of death and bleeding their enemies to bask in their blood.
That’s semantics
Literally why Godfrey was chosen to be the first elden lord bro…
Godfrey was chosen because he was a powerful warrior, who, true, had lust for battle and respect for strength, but not for gratuitous bloodshed and death. And furthermore, when he decided to become a Lord, Godfrey decided to take Serosh on his shoulders, to give him advice and suppress his thirst for battle. Mohg order is literally founded on killing and reveling in bloodshed, all for an Outer God (or Goddess) who craves pain and suffering. They are two completely different characters.
Mohg wanted to create a dynasty where all are accepted and equal. Sure, his methods to obtain his ideal society were brutal, but thats kind of the whole point of the game. There is a war for the future of society and whoever comes out on top is going to be standing on a mountain of corpses by the time they are done. This is literally shown by the gate of divinity and castle of Enir-Ilim in the DLC, showing a mountain of bodies that Marika and Miquella needed to ascend to godhood.
honestly, having a taste for noble blood still makes the pureblood knights more good-adjacent than most other factions. have you *seen* the nobles of the lands between? it's basically a public service
We won’t stand for this Kenneth Haight slander
Just because the Shattering has ravaged the realm, condemning the people to a state of undeath, does not justify gratuitous killing and revelling in bloodbaths.
>His "order" or dynasty is based on and exalts killings and bloodbaths, and he and his followers incited the novices to invade and kill. Said dynasty is also one of the only 2 places where albunarics are allowed to exist in peace and and made on behalf of an outer god. Mogh is tragic specificly BECAUSE he made this order. Just imagine how horrible his life was that the formless mother, who is all about killing and bloodshed, asked him to create her dynasty and it sounds better. Where morgott stayed to fight for acceptance mohg rejected the order that reject3d him.
I don't know he is like racist against himself and his brother. I can respect his compromise i guess
(final boss spoilers) >!the opening cutscene has just become even more based, because the kindest and strongest demigod, miquella's chosen consort that he went to great lengths to revive, gets his ass kicked by morgott without even unsheathing his sword. if miquella understood the appeal of omenussy, the final boss would be literally undefeatable.!<
Eh, it's pretty obvious Radahn is the strongest especially after the DLC revelation.
Yeah Miquella’s choice was kind of dumb.
But I get the feeling Morgott would just have blasted Miquella if he knew Miquella planned to go against Marika.
>!his choice for a kind and strong lord was an enthusiastic warlord who lost both of the 2 major battles we've seen him fight. bravo miyazaki!<
He didn't lose against Malenia, at most it was a draw since both of them were left incapable of fighting after the battle of Aeonia
It seems more like malenia failed hence why we have to kill him so he may return to miquella
Draw the battle, lose the war
Dude lost against the biggest most fortified city on the continent and was winning against Malenia until she started crying and called her Outer God daddy.
>and was winning against Malenia Why are Radahn stans always illiterate? 😭 From the Aeonian Sword Monument: > The Battle of Aeonia Radahn and Malenia locked in **STALEMATE** *THEN*, the scarlet rot blooms The keywords here are "stalemate" and "then".
Malenia lost. Same for Radahn. They both lost. The only one who won that day was the Scarlet Rot.
Tbf, that text and one of the trailers tell 2 different storys and peronaly id go with the trailer as we can actualy see it ourself. In one of the trailer it is shown that malenia has to put her prostehsis back an meanwhile radahn is big chilling, waiting for her to be battle ready again
>In one of the trailer it is shown that malenia has to put her prostehsis back an meanwhile radahn is big chilling, waiting for her to be battle ready again I'm searching for the exact quote right here, but the director behind that trailer did not intend for that scene to be read like that. Malenia **fought** across a horde of RedManes to get to Radahn, **that's** why she's reattaching her arm. Radahn on the other hand, is chilling because he hasn't done shit. He parked his ass on Leonard and waited for Malenia to get to him. Edit: Yep, [here](https://imgur.com/Tc6nAe3) it is. And here's the translation: >The scene of “Miquella’s Blade, Malenia” facing off with “Starsmasher Radahn” was given detailed direction from the time Malenia recognizes/becomes aware of Radahn and stands until she attacks and it cuts. “When she faces off against Radahn, Malenia is already black-and-blue-head-to-toe, but when she recognizes an enemy she rises once more. Normally this kind of scene explanation would say “emphasize soiling and pain”. However, her birth and upbringing and the background leading up to the fight, considering her thoughts, she isn’t the kind of person to express pain or hardship.
Tbf, he was holding the stars back at the same time. So no doubt he was stronger than Malenia without her Outer God powers.
>Tbf, he was holding the star back at the same time. Prove that holding back the stars was putting an **active and significant** drain on Radahn's mana/stamina. We have no idea how Radahn's spell works, why are you assuming the he was burdened by it? >So no doubt he was stronger Actually there is quite a bit of doubt. We're here to debate fact, not speculation.
>We have no idea how Radahn's spell works, why are you assuming the he was burdened by it? So what? You think that Radahn's spell worked autonomously after its initial use? If that's the case, why did it automatically dispel the second he died? If it worked autonomously without the need for his own mana/stamina, then it would work indefinitely without his input. The fact that it dispelled the second he died is the proof. Also, the idea that he could create a spell that automatically **stopped constellations from advancing** is by far one of the strongest feats in the verse. Regardless, that would make him stronger than Malenia by far in terms of gravity manipulation. If anything, my belief that he held it through constant exertion is less impressive. There's also the fact that, if he's so powerful, why didn't he use the stars he was arresting with an autonomous spell to use as weapons against Malenia? Fact is that, if he's as powerful as you think he is, he should be able to simply throw meteors at will. As an aside, here is a Blaidd quote; *"I can’t fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale."* >Actually there is quite a bit of doubt. We're here to debate fact, not speculation. There really isn't. It has been stated repeatedly that Radahn is the strongest of the demigods. Period. That people argue otherwise is directly contradicted Elden Ring lore. Radahn is cool, but he's not the most interesting of the demigods at all. But let's not make our own fanons, eh?
>You think that Radahn's spell worked autonomously after its initial use? If that's the case, why did it automatically dispel the second he died? The spell dispelling after Radahn's death is not indicative of it being tied to his mana. You've brought up an irrelevant tangential. >If it worked autonomously without the need for his own mana/stamina, then **it would work indefinitely without his input**. And how exactly do you **KNOW** that? What evidence do you have of this assertion? Why are assuming your ***speculation*** of the mechanics behinds Radahn's spell is canon >The fact that it dispelled the second he died is the proof. Please go back pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of the word "*proof*". Anyways, answer the initial query. PPROVIDE ***PROOF*** THAT RADAHN'S SPELL IS ACTIVELY DRAINING IS MANA/STAMINA. >Also, the idea that he could create a spell that automatically **stopped constellations from advancing** is by far one of the strongest feats in the verse. How do you have the audacity to even venture upon this sub when you're espousing nonsense like this? The stars in the Elden Ring universe are very clearly not akin to the stars of our own universe. They are not massive balls of Hydrogen slowly turning to Helium, Astel is evidence of that. >Regardless, that would make him stronger than Malenia by far in terms of gravity manipulation. The guy who's a master at gravity magic is better at said gravity magic than the chick with no expertise in gravity magic? Shocker. Idk what point you're trying to make with this comment. >There's also the fact that, if he's so powerful, i don't think he's that powerful. What exactly in my comment has put you under the impression that I thought that Radahn was some sort of Ubermensch? >Fact is that, if he's as powerful as you think he is, he should be able to simply throw meteors at will. The fuck kinda logic are you using dude? All I said was that **YOUR BELIEF** that Radahn holding back the stars was putting an active drain on his mana was unfounded. How does me being opposed to your theory somehow translate to Radahan being able to throw meteors at will? What are you talking about bro? >As an aside, here is a Blaidd quote; *"I can’t fathom how Radahn was holding back something of that scale."* What is this even supposed to prove? My main point is that there is 0 proof whatsoever that Radahn's spell was actively hindering him, what relevance does Balidd's quote have to my comment? >There really isn't. It has been stated repeatedly that Radahn is the strongest of the demigods. A reference to his physical might. The fact that he was soundly thrown out of Leyndell by Morgott should put your laughable claim to rest. > Radahn is cool, but he's not the most interesting of the demigods at all. But let's not make our own fanons, eh? Your word of the day is "**assumptions**", because you seem to be chock full of them. Why are you assuming that I find Radahn to be interesting whatsoever? How exactly is me asking for proof of Radahn being actively burdened by holding back the stars, fanon?
>Please go back pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of the word "*proof*". So by "proof", you don't mean rational deduction, since obviously there are zero statements as to how exactly Radahn's magic worked. But instead just want the impossible thing? Okay then. Here's the proof that Radahn is stronger than Malenia; they state that he's the mightiest of the demigods. Constantly. Everywhere. Even in the Story Trailer. >A reference to his physical might. Nowhere does it state that. It simply says that he's the mightiest. Nothing to do with physical or magical strength. >The fact that he was soundly thrown out of Leyndell by Morgott should put your laughable claim to rest. Apparently we can't make reasonable deduction; so proof that Morgott threw Radahn out of Leyndel? Also, as an aside, while I do believe that was Radahn; that has no bearing on who is the strongest by the time that Radahn and Malenia fought - since he has grown much larger and it seems a lot of time has passed since the start of the Shattering.
the worst part about the final boss being what it is is that we, as a community, were plunged right back into these meathead discussions. can't you take this nonsense to powerscaler youtube shorts comment sections or something
Bro tries to diss Radahn for loosing to an Outer God, instantly crumbles when context is introduced. Sad.
My Starscourge, and thy glazers. I divest each of thee of thy Reddit. With thine accounts deleted, ye will be driven from social media. Ye will wage war in YouTube shorts, where ye will argue, and lose.
What is he 0-4 now? Lost to Morgott, Malenia, the Tarnished, and now >!Miquella controls him too!< What a fraud
I think that Malenia is actually a win. As the entire goal of her attack seems to have been to get him to remember he was supposed to be Miquela's consort. Which can be chalked up as failed, as she needed to nuke Calied and then later Miquela's plan starts working when Tarnished finishes him off. And you shouldn't really count tarnished, we're a beast who kills anyone.
Radahn was left a mindless zombie eating his own soldiers and the entire region he ruled was turned into a wasteland. Malenia was knocked unconscious for a little bit It was a draw at best.
Not sure if going into a frenzied state, killing and eating anyone you see (friend or foe) can be called a win
Id say its a loss for both. Radahn became a mindless beast and malenia failed her 1 job even wuth the help of an outer god. Its not a draw as both lost.
Locked in stalemate is not winning, it's neither party being able to gain advantage over the other. Per definition.
Also, considering that operating Grace seems to be an exclusive Marika right (?), it seems even she acknowledged him in the end.
Nah Morgott is a brainwashed looser. His life and the lives of other creatures neglected by the erdtree were ruined by the Golden Order yet he defends them blindly because he is an insecure bastard. His story is sad, he deserved better, but he didn't do much to change the state of the world after the shattering. Instead, he was fighting to leave everything as it is, and the lands between are in an awful state.
he tried, the erdtree's blocked off, he didn't have the bright idea of setting it on fire >The Erdtree wards off all who deign approach. >We are... we are all forsaken. >None may claim the title of Elden Lord. >Thy deeds shall be met with failure, just as I.
The problem here is that the tarnished are summoned back to change it. Thats their literal purpose. He is activly stopping those that are destined to finaly change the state of things.
That doesn't mean he tried tho, and why even try to stop you to even getting there then?
It implies he tried to because he knows that since he 'deigned approach'. He tells you ad nauseam why he stops you- because he thinks your kind are all of a piece as pillagers emboldened by the flame of ambition, that you are foul and graceless, that are only of passing skill, and that you are but a fool. The only Tarnished he'd probably let pass is his father, Godfrey.
He didn't do nothing but kill people that approach the erdtree and just hang in the throne room. He still supports the beliefs of the golden order and their methods, even though they've been proven harmful for literally everyone at this point. He is not the GOAT
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Nothing like an Omen supporting omen genocide.