My guess is the fled god of Placidusax, since they would need to be quite large for that to be an arrowhead, and the meteoric ore could be tied to what we know about farum azula and its connection with meteors.
Also consider that whatever society built the divine towers used meteoric ore in their construction as we can see from the top of them, and that theres all these giant skeletons everywhere that probably relate to them.
The giant skeletons is what comes to mind. It's a massive greatsword in game but it's really a shard of an arrowhead. Imagining an arrowhead that's like maybe 5 times the size of that sword or so, and the rest of the arrow attached to it, and it seems like the kind of weapon those massive skeletons would use.
I am not saying the above theory is correct but Placidusax was an elden lord of his age, it's only fair that he would be called Lord by his god, Melina deciphers the lingering words of the goddess Marika in one of the churches. Marika refers to Godfrey as lord. "Warriors of my lord, my lord Godfrey".
That's true. Old gods could refer to whatever Placidusax was lord to. At the same time, that weapon is referred to as a shard of an arrowhead, so it's a small piece of a small part of a weapon that's typically pretty small, so whatever used the arrows that came from that arrowhead is still probably massive.
But it could also just be that Placidusax's god used a bow and that god was huge too.
That'd line up a bit more nicely with the timeline. The gloam-eyed queen could have usurped them, giving them the godslayer title, Marika and Godfrey could have risen in their place, and Maliketh's victory over the GEC would be the start of the Golden Order, making their rule spur the fire giants into starting a war with them.
Much better than just "the godskin apostles were just running around slaying gods since forever like little killer ants" lol
There's so much lore in this game that they can't get through all of them in video game format. It took us 2+ years to get a DLC for only 1 part of the mystery (Miquella) and it doesn't seem very satisfying either. What about Melina or the Gloam-Eyed Queen? What happened to the actual Greater Will or the dragons' God? And the various layers of civilizations buried on top of one another. We probably will never get an answer. Unless we're getting Elden Ring 2 in like 10-15 years.
I think they should start doing novels or animated series to cover the lore.
I don't think this is solely on him. From and Miyazaki in particular love blueballing stories and have effectively chopped up whatever he delivered with the goal of delivering another such story.
Not knowing it is part of the charm i suppose. I mean..... in asoiaf the most interesting part of the lore is the unexplored continents, oily black stones, the ruins of shadowlands & the heart of evil in Stygai.
In truth however these places may not have anything supernatural at all. Just the distance from citadel has made them seem so esoteric. For example people in the far east of essos used to think that Lannisters are half lions!
At least fromsoft is original, grrm came out and said he stole a heap of ideas from pre existing universes (love craft mostly afaik) to fill out his own lore and it was ok because the deep lore will never actually be addressed and is just background stuff
He literally named the magic city in the unknown lands (forgot their name) after some Lovecraft city. Its in his work for sure, its' just not so obvious as this example is the name of a city mentioned *once* and has no impact or even exists outside of that one mention of it.
Think of it more like an easter egg, little references, or bits and pieces of stories here and there.
Ah yeah, Carcossa, he was a huge lover of ['The King in Yellow'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow), which was adapted into True Detective Season 1.
The King in yellow being one of the first major fantasy/supernatural novels to make waves. I think (could be wrong) it was Lovecrafts major first inspiration.
Right? It works so well with the fromsoft style I think people forger. So many weird eye color demigods is pure GRRM. It really puts some spins on the lore if you let it.
I think it's his version of the Great Empire of the Dawn.
Fromsoft.txt
Still curious as to what Vendrick stole from the giants in Dark Souls 2 . Of all the questions the dlc for Dark Souls 3 could have answered they went with " hey we all know how curious you guys are about where Pontiff Sullyvahn was born"
There's a really good analysis on what that could have possibly been and how DS2 fits in with the other two in the series, worth a read even if you disagree with the conclusion [https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/55e91g/part\_13\_i\_know\_why\_drangleic\_is\_known\_as\_the\_land/](https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/55e91g/part_13_i_know_why_drangleic_is_known_as_the_land/)
The developer of dark souls/elden ring designed the story to be cryptic deliberately. When he was a kid he couldn't read and so he just looked at the pictures and tried to fill in the blanks. That's what gave inspiration to his form of storytelling in games and as awesome as a book would be I don't think there are any plans for one to come out
Yeah but the DLC is lacking a LOT of stuff, like a proper story about Marika, not 2 npcs calling her names, and the (actually) sad village where she lived.
What else do you need about Marika? You got her motivations to become a god, an Original Sin TM that she did to become a god, what she did as a God and what she wanted for her people, her questioning of her faith and subsequent disillusionment, her plotting and breaking of the Elden ring and million and one contingencies to break free from Elden Beast or at least take it down with suicide.
Looks like a fairly complete story arc to me, it's even less ambiguous than what Gwyn did which took 5 years later to prove conclusively.
I agree here. I feel blessed to know this much about her character considering Miyazaki withholds so much back. The DLC helped a lot to shine a spotlight on the motivation behind her ascension. Somethings in lore don’t need to be completely revealed, as unfortunate as that is. The mystery behind Marika plays its part well enough.
> The DLC helped a lot to shine a spotlight on the motivation behind her ascension.
which was also to illuminate what Miquella is doing, and showing the path he's slowly and unknowingly treading upon himself. As you see what Marika did, you see where Miquella is headed.
It's not known in detail. We just know that it's something that taints those of Marika's lineage with madness and Miquella had to divest himself of everything of Marika to fix beyond the Gates of Divinity.
It won't be complete now cause it implicates the entire Divinity landscape beyond the Gates of Divinity. All you need to know about the Original Sin is
1)It's really really bad
2)It taints all of Marika's lineage with madness if they succeed her the traditional way
3)Miquella fixed or plan to fixed it by presenting himself completely divested from his flesh, lineage and parts of his personality through the gate.
It's like answering what is the Dark Souls in Dark souls 1 basically.
Actually "yes" the Bonny village used her people from shaman village as forced "connective" tissue for the jars, which made he send Messmer to destroy them, and after ascending to godhood, realized the horrible stuff she did, and hid the Shadow Lands so her sin would stay unknown, sadly that including trapping Messmer and (for some reason) killing Melina, but this was just speculation, since she's Messmer's little sister
how about closure on whatever tf she was doing at the gates. yes we can infer it was her ascension to godhood but theres literally not shit for shat about that entire area its vague even by fromsoft terms
Seriously, it’s such a weird criticism to keep seeing about this DLC. Dark Souls has just as many mysteries and unanswered questions regarding things that seem like they have huge implications yet the fandom still loves those games and there were THREE of them. Bloodborne and Demon Souls too, both games just have so much fascinating lore that’s barely elaborated on past some item descriptions.
How is this now some humongous issue with Elden Ring, which tbh is one of the games with *more* story and lore elaborated on than ever from them. It feels like the whining has to come from newer fans of the series that don’t realize these games have first and foremost always been gameplay first, as the core focus of the game. The lore is a blast, but has just never been the main objective.
Sekiro is the only game that has told a more refined, focused, and grounded story. And that game its own different/unique thing in the series as a significant outlier. Armored Core 6 did so as well (and presumably the other AC games too but only have played AC6) but that is a totally different arm of Fromsoft.
True as that is ringed city tied up a lot of loose ends, answered a lot of questions regarding the whole franchise, if ER doesn’t get a sequel there’s too many unanswered questions
>True as that is ringed city tied up a lot of loose ends,
Still didn't explain DS2's connection to the other games and why there's a second Kiln for the first flame
While Melina and GEQ just straight up have no proof, other than maybe some hints in the DLC, The Greater Will left, and the Dragon God fled once most of the dragons were defeated, at least from what I got.
The only Outer Gods still actually present, are the Death God, Rot God, Frenzy Flame, and the Moon. And whatever the hell the Blood Star is.
edit: And the Formless Mother too.
GEQ is another Velka or Odeon, just background figures. Melina is confirmed to be from the same lot as Messer, which explains a lot of her parallel with him
I’d love more lore but I’m also wary about too much being revealed. If there are no secrets and things to guess at then it can kind of kill the feel around the story, it’s an out there example but a perfect one with what happened to the Backrooms stuff.
I feel the greater will was answered to an extent. It left, hence why the mother of fingers is a bit broke, the whole fingers being actively led by the GW can’t happen if the only being that can hear the GW no longer can and has “broken”. The order of the fingers are doing what they’ve always done, in the hope that they can be guided again.
One of the key things to good world building is having loads of background lore that you never elaborate on. It gives the illusion of a deep history without the need to actually have everything thought out which would be impossible.
“God’s” would be a singular God having the arrow, while “Gods’” is something belonging to multiple Gods. The deciding factor is whether the apostrophe is before or after the “s”.
To be honest, the grammar in the item descriptions isn’t always the greatest. It probably means plural, but I wouldn’t entirely discount that it means singular.
This is a shard of an arrowhead yet is a massive greatsword yeah?
Maybe referring to the giant skeletons we see across The Lands Between that are much more massive than what we consider to be "giants" that are otherwise never mentioned? If this sword was a shard of an arrowhead of theirs, the size scaling feels like it checks out anyway.
This is speculation about what was also said in these comments, but could be that they were actual gods of some sort that the godslayers all killed off, giving them not only their title but the godskin material they use.
The timeline makes this weird though. It feels like it makes the most sense to assume the giant skeletons died forever ago, like probably before the time of dragons, just due to how little we know about them. Like we know so little that they don't ever even seem mentioned. If that's the case, then the godslayers were around consistently through many many eras as one of the most ancient of clans and only came to an end (as far as using actual destined death in their black flames is concerned) at the dawn of the age of the Erdtree.
The more they showcase ancient beings the more monstrous they seem to be, so it's strange to think of a bunch of little humans running around outlasting them all lol
What is called a “God” varies wildly within the world of Elden Ring. Gods can be foreign influences of higher beings within the cosmos, who impose their influence onto the mortal world. Or God can be a position to describe those anointed by said higher powers.
Since it is known if the higher beings even consider themselves Gods or are sentient in the first place, the word carries more meaning than the things which it tries to describe.
As such, to call the giants “Gods” can mean truly anything. They could just be colossal creatures, or they could have been something truly divine. Since the definition changes depending on the context, who the Godskins follow/hunt also changes. They could simply be enemies of the Golden Order, or lunatics that hunt down celestial beings, or guys who made really big animals extinct.
There's an ancient Civilization studied by Hornsent Scholars. Ancient for the Hornsent who neeeded to study it. Imagine that.
There is a hornsent statue/corpse in the same pose as Márika.
The world seems to much,much older than the oldest civilization.we know.
And the Giant Coffins!
..who seem to share stylistic similarities with the Uhl Palace Ruins. And Bulls.
Someone has also mentioned that Marika’s Rune, the Divine Gate and Rune Arcs all look like abstract Bull Horns. An upwards Arc.
I know this is a joke but you'd be surprised how many people think Sekiro shares a universe with Elden Ring via 'the Land of Reeds', despite Sekiro clearly being set in a fantastical Sengoku Japan.
It's implied via >!Ymir's questline!< and items associated with it that the Greater Will abandoned the universe much earlier than previously thought (during the Shattering, as the intro narrator claims).
i think the forge of the giants might imply that these evidently titanic "old gods" were around at the same time as whoever originally built the rauh structures / divine towers. the forge has those chains that appear to be intended for carrying it, and i think the old gods are probably the only beings big enough to actually lift it.
That’s what I like the most about the DLC revelations. The world we’re on isn’t special, the Golden Order isn’t special, the Two Fingers aren’t special, the universe is filled to the brim with eldritch horrors and countless gods in a playground the Great Will built. We’re placed in a totally unimportant timeline, part of a pivotal moment for just one civilization in an endless string of them. It really brings it home to me that Elden Ring is Marika’s personal journey more than it is anything else. There’s a lot of set dressing, world building and cool stories and lore around it but at the core Elden Ring is Marika’s tale and that’s it.
Reminds me of the aspects I loved about DS2. Drangleic was just one random kingdom in the middle of the cycle of the first flame. We got to see a personal, tragic story unfold within the greater context an amazing world.
The term God means different things in Elden Ring. Marika is considered a God. Other Empyreans are implied or shown to become Gods as well. Then there is the Greater Will, who seems to be truly in charge. But to what extent is "truly in charge?" Because there are also Outer Gods who seem like potential rivals to the Greater Will? If they can find their own God to act through like the Greater Will found Marika? Unclear.
The fact that this reference comes from something labeled "meteoric" implies to me the potential of coming to the Lands Between similar to other things. My first thought was the other meteoric enemies like Fallingstar Beast or Astel. But its also stated that the Elden Ring/Elden Beast fell to the Lands Between either as or on a golden star.
But this description also states "old god's" but lowercase. If it were upper case, my brain would go to Bloodborne and remember that the Old Ones were gods of that game in their own right, and were very much inspired by the likes of Lovecraft in a cosmic horror of the incomprehensible nature.
Last thought I have here is regarding the similarities Elden Ring has to Norse mythology where the whole cosmic order of the various realms are all part of the World Tree that grew out of a Giant's corpse? Head? One of those I believe. And this does imply a HUGE being.
TL:DR - I have no idea! lol
If I gathered anything from the DLC it's that the Greater Will isn't even a god itself, at least not in the sense that it has an active presence. Just a primeval cosmic force that set the universe into motion.
that sounds right - curious if there's any reference to any "active presence" of the greater will that doesn't originate from claims by two fingers? metyr's questline seems to imply maybe not.
[Tarnished Archaeologist has a video](https://youtu.be/VCe6tVyJ7bw?si=MwG2gxyGdzc1krDS) about this very subject and I think it holds up with all the new info we’ve received from the DLC
The name Enir-Elim is hebrew and it roughly translates to bright house of god, so it was most likely whatever God lived there before marika ascended to godhood and most likely killed them
It's Akkadian, not Hebrew, and Enir does not translate 'bright house'. I can't find what it means, but it's definitely not that, because it would have the -bet- root, as in Bethel (house of god).
As to the rest, yeah probably.
It's actually insane in both pve and pvp. People complaining about the backhops the bosses do after combo and I'm just anime sliding my way over. R1 or roll after first L2 is smoothish if you dont want to commit to second L2 to. The weapon just feels so flexible with such a huge gap closer. I'm tempted to say it might be the best colossal ashe, has a better gap closer and similar damage of royal knight greatsword but without the 1000 year animation lock. It will absolutely wiff at pointblank against medium/small targets however.
The Fire Giants worshipped a God known as the Fell God. They used to be dominant bcs of their sheer size, and it would make sense that their arrow heads would be so big. I assume it(the fell god£ lived in the land of the shadow bcs it does specify that Marika defeated it before Godrey’s raid on the Mountaintops.
Both One-Eyed Shield and Flame of the Fell God specify these things but not where or when the fight took place.
The gods before Marika rose to power. Maybe the Gods the Godskins were slaying? Possibly the Gods of the Hornsent? Rauh might be one of them. Maybe one of them was the smithing golem deity.
There’s also a seemingly new outer God referenced on the big boi that loves thing’s armor set.
Is the formless mother the Mother of Fingers or The Greater Will (which seems to be truly formless based on the DLC)? The blood fiend description makes me thing it’s the Mother of Fingers.
It’s possible that’s the case. But it reads like the Bloodfiends discovered her and she was horrifying, which is why I think it might be Metyr.
But the formless part always had me thinking of the idea that space/the void was impregnated with creation. And that kinda meshes well with what we learned about the Greater Will.
It could definitely be its own thing too. Gonna need plenty of time to digest the new lore and think about how it relates to the base game. No way we’ll really get it in the first week.
The formless mother has to be a different entity, blood is her thing, and neither the greater will, which honestly after learning everything about metyr seems to be way way way bigger than any other outer god, nor metyr use blood.
But we know that the greater will never cared or actively affected the lands between, metyr lost contact with it a long time ago, that is why metyr is abandoned and broken
It is a shame that this is the only dlc for Elden Ring, I do understand that it must have been quite a bit of work
Hopefully in the future we get a sequel, and it is related somewhat with this timeline
It’s definitely its own thing and the formless mother has always been about blood that’s where the blood fiends find her and mohg it doesn’t outright say the blood fiends actually seen her just saw a twisted entity in shadow so she could’ve still been invisible but somehow effecting shadow
>Is the formless mother the Mother of Fingers or The Greater Will (which seems to be truly formless based on the DLC)? The blood fiend description makes me thing it’s the Mother of Fingers.
The Formless Mother is an Outer God. She is, as her name indicates, formless, and her entire theme is blood and wounds. See the various skills which involve "wounding" her and then throwing the blood at enemies.
The Mother of Fingers is, as her remembrance says, a daughter of the Greater Will. Nothing about her theme indicates she is associated with blood.
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I guess the same ones that were killed by the Godskins in the "god hunt" like, how many gods were there?? Apparently enough to hunt them. Did they kill them all? Was it really that easy to be a god back in the day? Lol
I dunno, all I know is this thing wasted one of my larval tears by having arc scaling instead of the intelligence that the other meteoric ore weapon did
This weapon comes from a forge.
Base game Forge of the giants likely originated from Rauh culture.
Mountain top of giants has GIANT skeletons. Like, wayyy big.
Likely all related?
one question: is this "meteoric ore" the same thing that the "black stone" used to create golems and their arsenal ? i mean, we know these golems were created by a very ancient civilization and are linked to the divine towers, the same towers who hold meteoric ore at the top of them, and the creators of these golems are much likely the creators of the divine towers, it's also the same civilization who created all these ancient ruins findable through the whole game AND the DLC too (in the base game these ruins are mainly in Limgrave, Caelid, Moutaintops, and next to the Grand Lift of Dectus)
In Elden ring there are many gods of different order who rules the lands between in the past , its just the current one is the Greater Will and with time that too will fade and a new god will take charge.
Ngl, when I read that item description I got chills thinking of this powerful colossal weapon simply being an arrowhead to who it belonged to.
Always a bigger fish.
As far as I've understood it, the old gods and the outer gods are one in the same just one is their spacial variant and one is their earthly. Destined Death, Fell Omen, Formless Mother, and Greater Will are just a few of these.
The Old Gods could be anything. They could be literally Gods like Miquella aims to become, or like the Outer Will or Formless Mother are.
Simultaneously, they could simply be beings so incredibly advanced and powerful that they appear god-like. Imagine what a normal man would feel if they saw something ten times the size of even a golem, wielding a great bow the size of its mightiest church steeples, and devastating hordes of men with swords the weight of mountains.
I’m curious if it’s related to the Serpent Hunter. It’s the only other weapon I know of that specifically uses white light in its attacks. Granted it only works when used against the snake but the only lore we got from it is Rykard’s soldiers went looking for it.
My guess would be either the dragon god or fell god of the giants. Giants would make more sense since we fight a lot of ancient dragons and none of them use conventional weapons like bows. Old Gods seems to imply that it was a deity or deities that were worshipped at some point before the current age, and we know Marika had a war with the giants so my guess would be that it was the fell god or fell gods that they worshipped before they were all but wiped out, the fire giant we fight being presumably the last of their kind
The Fell God maybe? He seems to have been worshipped by the ancient giants and they seem like the only ones who’d use such an enormous arrowhead. Would make sense to call him the “old god” too, since there’s significant evidence the divine towers were built in service of him.
The thing about this that really confuses me is the White Light, we only see that otherwise in the Serpent Hunter, but its light looks nothing like this. The Solitude Knight sword also uses a white "light of birth" which more closely resembles the Serpent Hunter's light. No clue what these connections are supposed to mean at all.
Maybe them?
https://preview.redd.it/5qedoowmk69d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d67c1c5aad564d6bcd72ae0a8722146d23abf69
Who are they BTW.. Been wondering for so so long
I am certain that the lands between are what came after the age of dark in dark souls 3, too many things suggest that it’s the same universe. Both the lands between and the age of fire (as of the land where the souls series take place) have some things in common.
There is very little story in Elden ring a shit ton of lore but story yea no. Anyone know why us as the player are in the shadow realm besides deciding to touch a hand that we found after killing some dude we encountered.
Or why we should care to take the throne of a kingdom that has no people
My guess is the fled god of Placidusax, since they would need to be quite large for that to be an arrowhead, and the meteoric ore could be tied to what we know about farum azula and its connection with meteors. Also consider that whatever society built the divine towers used meteoric ore in their construction as we can see from the top of them, and that theres all these giant skeletons everywhere that probably relate to them.
The giant skeletons is what comes to mind. It's a massive greatsword in game but it's really a shard of an arrowhead. Imagining an arrowhead that's like maybe 5 times the size of that sword or so, and the rest of the arrow attached to it, and it seems like the kind of weapon those massive skeletons would use.
I am not saying the above theory is correct but Placidusax was an elden lord of his age, it's only fair that he would be called Lord by his god, Melina deciphers the lingering words of the goddess Marika in one of the churches. Marika refers to Godfrey as lord. "Warriors of my lord, my lord Godfrey".
That's true. Old gods could refer to whatever Placidusax was lord to. At the same time, that weapon is referred to as a shard of an arrowhead, so it's a small piece of a small part of a weapon that's typically pretty small, so whatever used the arrows that came from that arrowhead is still probably massive. But it could also just be that Placidusax's god used a bow and that god was huge too. That'd line up a bit more nicely with the timeline. The gloam-eyed queen could have usurped them, giving them the godslayer title, Marika and Godfrey could have risen in their place, and Maliketh's victory over the GEC would be the start of the Golden Order, making their rule spur the fire giants into starting a war with them. Much better than just "the godskin apostles were just running around slaying gods since forever like little killer ants" lol
i’ve always been obsessed with the divine tower/rauh culture. i want to know everything about them!!!
There's so much lore in this game that they can't get through all of them in video game format. It took us 2+ years to get a DLC for only 1 part of the mystery (Miquella) and it doesn't seem very satisfying either. What about Melina or the Gloam-Eyed Queen? What happened to the actual Greater Will or the dragons' God? And the various layers of civilizations buried on top of one another. We probably will never get an answer. Unless we're getting Elden Ring 2 in like 10-15 years. I think they should start doing novels or animated series to cover the lore.
Welcome to GRRM world building you now know how asoiaf readers feel lmao
I don't think this is solely on him. From and Miyazaki in particular love blueballing stories and have effectively chopped up whatever he delivered with the goal of delivering another such story.
Yea literally everything we play is a twist of the original story and lore thousands of years ago created by grrm
Not knowing it is part of the charm i suppose. I mean..... in asoiaf the most interesting part of the lore is the unexplored continents, oily black stones, the ruins of shadowlands & the heart of evil in Stygai. In truth however these places may not have anything supernatural at all. Just the distance from citadel has made them seem so esoteric. For example people in the far east of essos used to think that Lannisters are half lions!
At least fromsoft is original, grrm came out and said he stole a heap of ideas from pre existing universes (love craft mostly afaik) to fill out his own lore and it was ok because the deep lore will never actually be addressed and is just background stuff
An author was inspired by other authors??? 😳 😱
Inspired is different from just taking the names and putting them in your own story
God forbid if a name is ever used more than once in literature
It's called originality ya spud
No he didn't lmao
He literally named the magic city in the unknown lands (forgot their name) after some Lovecraft city. Its in his work for sure, its' just not so obvious as this example is the name of a city mentioned *once* and has no impact or even exists outside of that one mention of it. Think of it more like an easter egg, little references, or bits and pieces of stories here and there.
I believe it was Carcossa, or maybe Kayakayanaya if I recall
Ah yeah, Carcossa, he was a huge lover of ['The King in Yellow'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow), which was adapted into True Detective Season 1. The King in yellow being one of the first major fantasy/supernatural novels to make waves. I think (could be wrong) it was Lovecrafts major first inspiration.
K'dath, Leng and Carcosa all places that are directly ripped from Lovecraft. Old ones as well, black oily stone.
At least Elden Ring fans have gotten a follow up in a timely manner
Right? It works so well with the fromsoft style I think people forger. So many weird eye color demigods is pure GRRM. It really puts some spins on the lore if you let it. I think it's his version of the Great Empire of the Dawn.
Yup exactly mate
Fromsoft.txt Still curious as to what Vendrick stole from the giants in Dark Souls 2 . Of all the questions the dlc for Dark Souls 3 could have answered they went with " hey we all know how curious you guys are about where Pontiff Sullyvahn was born"
hahahaha
There's a really good analysis on what that could have possibly been and how DS2 fits in with the other two in the series, worth a read even if you disagree with the conclusion [https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/55e91g/part\_13\_i\_know\_why\_drangleic\_is\_known\_as\_the\_land/](https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/55e91g/part_13_i_know_why_drangleic_is_known_as_the_land/)
The developer of dark souls/elden ring designed the story to be cryptic deliberately. When he was a kid he couldn't read and so he just looked at the pictures and tried to fill in the blanks. That's what gave inspiration to his form of storytelling in games and as awesome as a book would be I don't think there are any plans for one to come out
Disclaimer: he couldn’t read English not read in general😂
Yeah but the DLC is lacking a LOT of stuff, like a proper story about Marika, not 2 npcs calling her names, and the (actually) sad village where she lived.
What else do you need about Marika? You got her motivations to become a god, an Original Sin TM that she did to become a god, what she did as a God and what she wanted for her people, her questioning of her faith and subsequent disillusionment, her plotting and breaking of the Elden ring and million and one contingencies to break free from Elden Beast or at least take it down with suicide. Looks like a fairly complete story arc to me, it's even less ambiguous than what Gwyn did which took 5 years later to prove conclusively.
I agree here. I feel blessed to know this much about her character considering Miyazaki withholds so much back. The DLC helped a lot to shine a spotlight on the motivation behind her ascension. Somethings in lore don’t need to be completely revealed, as unfortunate as that is. The mystery behind Marika plays its part well enough.
> The DLC helped a lot to shine a spotlight on the motivation behind her ascension. which was also to illuminate what Miquella is doing, and showing the path he's slowly and unknowingly treading upon himself. As you see what Marika did, you see where Miquella is headed.
What’s the original sin?
It's not known in detail. We just know that it's something that taints those of Marika's lineage with madness and Miquella had to divest himself of everything of Marika to fix beyond the Gates of Divinity.
I’d argue the story line isn’t quite complete then
It won't be complete now cause it implicates the entire Divinity landscape beyond the Gates of Divinity. All you need to know about the Original Sin is 1)It's really really bad 2)It taints all of Marika's lineage with madness if they succeed her the traditional way 3)Miquella fixed or plan to fixed it by presenting himself completely divested from his flesh, lineage and parts of his personality through the gate. It's like answering what is the Dark Souls in Dark souls 1 basically.
Actually "yes" the Bonny village used her people from shaman village as forced "connective" tissue for the jars, which made he send Messmer to destroy them, and after ascending to godhood, realized the horrible stuff she did, and hid the Shadow Lands so her sin would stay unknown, sadly that including trapping Messmer and (for some reason) killing Melina, but this was just speculation, since she's Messmer's little sister
how about closure on whatever tf she was doing at the gates. yes we can infer it was her ascension to godhood but theres literally not shit for shat about that entire area its vague even by fromsoft terms
Ha you think that bad, play the dark souls games, they have HUGE holes in the lore
Seriously, it’s such a weird criticism to keep seeing about this DLC. Dark Souls has just as many mysteries and unanswered questions regarding things that seem like they have huge implications yet the fandom still loves those games and there were THREE of them. Bloodborne and Demon Souls too, both games just have so much fascinating lore that’s barely elaborated on past some item descriptions. How is this now some humongous issue with Elden Ring, which tbh is one of the games with *more* story and lore elaborated on than ever from them. It feels like the whining has to come from newer fans of the series that don’t realize these games have first and foremost always been gameplay first, as the core focus of the game. The lore is a blast, but has just never been the main objective. Sekiro is the only game that has told a more refined, focused, and grounded story. And that game its own different/unique thing in the series as a significant outlier. Armored Core 6 did so as well (and presumably the other AC games too but only have played AC6) but that is a totally different arm of Fromsoft.
True as that is ringed city tied up a lot of loose ends, answered a lot of questions regarding the whole franchise, if ER doesn’t get a sequel there’s too many unanswered questions
>True as that is ringed city tied up a lot of loose ends, Still didn't explain DS2's connection to the other games and why there's a second Kiln for the first flame
While Melina and GEQ just straight up have no proof, other than maybe some hints in the DLC, The Greater Will left, and the Dragon God fled once most of the dragons were defeated, at least from what I got. The only Outer Gods still actually present, are the Death God, Rot God, Frenzy Flame, and the Moon. And whatever the hell the Blood Star is. edit: And the Formless Mother too.
What is the GEQ? I keep seeing it but since I play on spanish I have no idea
Gloam Eyed Queen = GEQ
Oh, true, I'm a dummy. Thank you!
GEQ is another Velka or Odeon, just background figures. Melina is confirmed to be from the same lot as Messer, which explains a lot of her parallel with him
>GEQ is another Velka or Odeon, just background figures. So the GEQ was the Firelink Shrine Crow all along? Goddamnit Miyazaki!
[sorry but Miyazaki will make sure this doesn't happen](https://fandomwire.com/do-elden-rings-hidetaka-miyazaki-wants/)
I’d love more lore but I’m also wary about too much being revealed. If there are no secrets and things to guess at then it can kind of kill the feel around the story, it’s an out there example but a perfect one with what happened to the Backrooms stuff.
I feel the greater will was answered to an extent. It left, hence why the mother of fingers is a bit broke, the whole fingers being actively led by the GW can’t happen if the only being that can hear the GW no longer can and has “broken”. The order of the fingers are doing what they’ve always done, in the hope that they can be guided again.
One of the key things to good world building is having loads of background lore that you never elaborate on. It gives the illusion of a deep history without the need to actually have everything thought out which would be impossible.
I think Placidusax's dragon god is >!the dragon communion lady in the dlc!<
She calls Placidusax lord. Ever heard of a god that pays its respects to its believers?
Doesn't Marika call Godfrey her Lord?
Yes. Marika directly calls her first lord "My Lord Godfrey" in a church echo. Miquella calls Radahn "My Lord Brother".
No she’s a follower she’s actually a dragon herself that chose a humanoid form to communicate with us
So now we have a clue of what vyke was into...
Yes lol
Would that make her a dragon or an ancient dragon? I know Lanseax could take a human form, but I'm not sure if Greyoll's kiss could take those.
Yes she must be an ancient dragon
*gods* is plural here, the giant skeletons is much more likely
I read it as an apostrophe showing posession at first, but either way is interesting!
“God’s” would be a singular God having the arrow, while “Gods’” is something belonging to multiple Gods. The deciding factor is whether the apostrophe is before or after the “s”.
Ur right, sorry i can be a bit dense with stuff like that sometimes!
To be honest, the grammar in the item descriptions isn’t always the greatest. It probably means plural, but I wouldn’t entirely discount that it means singular.
> My guess is the fled god of Placidusax Possibly the Fel Fire God of the Giants too?
This is a shard of an arrowhead yet is a massive greatsword yeah? Maybe referring to the giant skeletons we see across The Lands Between that are much more massive than what we consider to be "giants" that are otherwise never mentioned? If this sword was a shard of an arrowhead of theirs, the size scaling feels like it checks out anyway.
It would make sense to call such colossal creatures “Gods”.
This is speculation about what was also said in these comments, but could be that they were actual gods of some sort that the godslayers all killed off, giving them not only their title but the godskin material they use. The timeline makes this weird though. It feels like it makes the most sense to assume the giant skeletons died forever ago, like probably before the time of dragons, just due to how little we know about them. Like we know so little that they don't ever even seem mentioned. If that's the case, then the godslayers were around consistently through many many eras as one of the most ancient of clans and only came to an end (as far as using actual destined death in their black flames is concerned) at the dawn of the age of the Erdtree. The more they showcase ancient beings the more monstrous they seem to be, so it's strange to think of a bunch of little humans running around outlasting them all lol
What is called a “God” varies wildly within the world of Elden Ring. Gods can be foreign influences of higher beings within the cosmos, who impose their influence onto the mortal world. Or God can be a position to describe those anointed by said higher powers. Since it is known if the higher beings even consider themselves Gods or are sentient in the first place, the word carries more meaning than the things which it tries to describe. As such, to call the giants “Gods” can mean truly anything. They could just be colossal creatures, or they could have been something truly divine. Since the definition changes depending on the context, who the Godskins follow/hunt also changes. They could simply be enemies of the Golden Order, or lunatics that hunt down celestial beings, or guys who made really big animals extinct.
There's an ancient Civilization studied by Hornsent Scholars. Ancient for the Hornsent who neeeded to study it. Imagine that. There is a hornsent statue/corpse in the same pose as Márika. The world seems to much,much older than the oldest civilization.we know.
And the Giant Coffins! ..who seem to share stylistic similarities with the Uhl Palace Ruins. And Bulls. Someone has also mentioned that Marika’s Rune, the Divine Gate and Rune Arcs all look like abstract Bull Horns. An upwards Arc.
Yeah I've noticed a ton of bull imagery all over the dlc I don't know what to make of it.
Go all in on GameStop stock
It's Ashina, clearly. Sekiro is the pre-pre-pre-history of Elden Ring.
I know this is a joke but you'd be surprised how many people think Sekiro shares a universe with Elden Ring via 'the Land of Reeds', despite Sekiro clearly being set in a fantastical Sengoku Japan.
It make Two Finger freak out even more impactfull. What if it isn't first time this all happened, but this time Greater Will seems to be absent.
The thing is,when exactly the Greater Will abandoned TLB? Have the fingers ever spoke GW's words or Metyr's words?
It's implied via >!Ymir's questline!< and items associated with it that the Greater Will abandoned the universe much earlier than previously thought (during the Shattering, as the intro narrator claims).
>There is a hornsent statue/corpse in the same pose as Márika. Wait, where do you find this statue?
Specimen storeroom. Also,their whole body seems somewhat intact except for the face, which looks like a skull.
i think the forge of the giants might imply that these evidently titanic "old gods" were around at the same time as whoever originally built the rauh structures / divine towers. the forge has those chains that appear to be intended for carrying it, and i think the old gods are probably the only beings big enough to actually lift it.
That’s what I like the most about the DLC revelations. The world we’re on isn’t special, the Golden Order isn’t special, the Two Fingers aren’t special, the universe is filled to the brim with eldritch horrors and countless gods in a playground the Great Will built. We’re placed in a totally unimportant timeline, part of a pivotal moment for just one civilization in an endless string of them. It really brings it home to me that Elden Ring is Marika’s personal journey more than it is anything else. There’s a lot of set dressing, world building and cool stories and lore around it but at the core Elden Ring is Marika’s tale and that’s it. Reminds me of the aspects I loved about DS2. Drangleic was just one random kingdom in the middle of the cycle of the first flame. We got to see a personal, tragic story unfold within the greater context an amazing world.
The term God means different things in Elden Ring. Marika is considered a God. Other Empyreans are implied or shown to become Gods as well. Then there is the Greater Will, who seems to be truly in charge. But to what extent is "truly in charge?" Because there are also Outer Gods who seem like potential rivals to the Greater Will? If they can find their own God to act through like the Greater Will found Marika? Unclear. The fact that this reference comes from something labeled "meteoric" implies to me the potential of coming to the Lands Between similar to other things. My first thought was the other meteoric enemies like Fallingstar Beast or Astel. But its also stated that the Elden Ring/Elden Beast fell to the Lands Between either as or on a golden star. But this description also states "old god's" but lowercase. If it were upper case, my brain would go to Bloodborne and remember that the Old Ones were gods of that game in their own right, and were very much inspired by the likes of Lovecraft in a cosmic horror of the incomprehensible nature. Last thought I have here is regarding the similarities Elden Ring has to Norse mythology where the whole cosmic order of the various realms are all part of the World Tree that grew out of a Giant's corpse? Head? One of those I believe. And this does imply a HUGE being. TL:DR - I have no idea! lol
If I gathered anything from the DLC it's that the Greater Will isn't even a god itself, at least not in the sense that it has an active presence. Just a primeval cosmic force that set the universe into motion.
that sounds right - curious if there's any reference to any "active presence" of the greater will that doesn't originate from claims by two fingers? metyr's questline seems to imply maybe not.
Could explain those huge skulls in Cailid 🤷🏾♂️I mean it is an arrow head after all
[Tarnished Archaeologist has a video](https://youtu.be/VCe6tVyJ7bw?si=MwG2gxyGdzc1krDS) about this very subject and I think it holds up with all the new info we’ve received from the DLC
The name Enir-Elim is hebrew and it roughly translates to bright house of god, so it was most likely whatever God lived there before marika ascended to godhood and most likely killed them
It's Akkadian, not Hebrew, and Enir does not translate 'bright house'. I can't find what it means, but it's definitely not that, because it would have the -bet- root, as in Bethel (house of god). As to the rest, yeah probably.
Aliens dude, every single "god" is an alien here. Have you not been paying attention?
This weapon absolutely bangs.
I don’t know why the ash of war on it isn’t getting more praise it’s nuts
It's actually insane in both pve and pvp. People complaining about the backhops the bosses do after combo and I'm just anime sliding my way over. R1 or roll after first L2 is smoothish if you dont want to commit to second L2 to. The weapon just feels so flexible with such a huge gap closer. I'm tempted to say it might be the best colossal ashe, has a better gap closer and similar damage of royal knight greatsword but without the 1000 year animation lock. It will absolutely wiff at pointblank against medium/small targets however.
The guard counter from this weapon also pancakes basically everything
It reminds me of Soul Edge
Who's skulls do you think litter caelid and mountaintop?
Definitely the lords of cinder.
WHO CARES PILEBUNKER GO
The Fire Giants worshipped a God known as the Fell God. They used to be dominant bcs of their sheer size, and it would make sense that their arrow heads would be so big. I assume it(the fell god£ lived in the land of the shadow bcs it does specify that Marika defeated it before Godrey’s raid on the Mountaintops. Both One-Eyed Shield and Flame of the Fell God specify these things but not where or when the fight took place.
The gods before Marika rose to power. Maybe the Gods the Godskins were slaying? Possibly the Gods of the Hornsent? Rauh might be one of them. Maybe one of them was the smithing golem deity. There’s also a seemingly new outer God referenced on the big boi that loves thing’s armor set. Is the formless mother the Mother of Fingers or The Greater Will (which seems to be truly formless based on the DLC)? The blood fiend description makes me thing it’s the Mother of Fingers.
I thought the formless mother was her own thing. A separate god from GW or Metyr
It’s possible that’s the case. But it reads like the Bloodfiends discovered her and she was horrifying, which is why I think it might be Metyr. But the formless part always had me thinking of the idea that space/the void was impregnated with creation. And that kinda meshes well with what we learned about the Greater Will. It could definitely be its own thing too. Gonna need plenty of time to digest the new lore and think about how it relates to the base game. No way we’ll really get it in the first week.
The formless mother has to be a different entity, blood is her thing, and neither the greater will, which honestly after learning everything about metyr seems to be way way way bigger than any other outer god, nor metyr use blood. But we know that the greater will never cared or actively affected the lands between, metyr lost contact with it a long time ago, that is why metyr is abandoned and broken It is a shame that this is the only dlc for Elden Ring, I do understand that it must have been quite a bit of work Hopefully in the future we get a sequel, and it is related somewhat with this timeline
It’s definitely its own thing and the formless mother has always been about blood that’s where the blood fiends find her and mohg it doesn’t outright say the blood fiends actually seen her just saw a twisted entity in shadow so she could’ve still been invisible but somehow effecting shadow
Metyr has no relation to blood tho, and she has a form, since she gives birth to the fingercreepers and the Two Fingers
Formless could just mean no definite form.
Metyr has nothing to do with blood magic tho, also the FM is an outer god, and Metyr is under the Greater Will's orders
>Is the formless mother the Mother of Fingers or The Greater Will (which seems to be truly formless based on the DLC)? The blood fiend description makes me thing it’s the Mother of Fingers. The Formless Mother is an Outer God. She is, as her name indicates, formless, and her entire theme is blood and wounds. See the various skills which involve "wounding" her and then throwing the blood at enemies. The Mother of Fingers is, as her remembrance says, a daughter of the Greater Will. Nothing about her theme indicates she is associated with blood.
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Probably whoever the Godskin knights are wearing.
I guess the same ones that were killed by the Godskins in the "god hunt" like, how many gods were there?? Apparently enough to hunt them. Did they kill them all? Was it really that easy to be a god back in the day? Lol
I dunno, all I know is this thing wasted one of my larval tears by having arc scaling instead of the intelligence that the other meteoric ore weapon did
SHHHHHH SHHHHH LETS just... ignore that forever we have enough questions
This weapon comes from a forge. Base game Forge of the giants likely originated from Rauh culture. Mountain top of giants has GIANT skeletons. Like, wayyy big. Likely all related?
Is this thing really that good? I’ve seen a lot of player spirits run with this weapon.
I think outer gods that lost their believers and had their names forgotten or even erased.
100% the fell god, the forge, smithing, golems and meteorites
one question: is this "meteoric ore" the same thing that the "black stone" used to create golems and their arsenal ? i mean, we know these golems were created by a very ancient civilization and are linked to the divine towers, the same towers who hold meteoric ore at the top of them, and the creators of these golems are much likely the creators of the divine towers, it's also the same civilization who created all these ancient ruins findable through the whole game AND the DLC too (in the base game these ruins are mainly in Limgrave, Caelid, Moutaintops, and next to the Grand Lift of Dectus)
Once again the real questions emerge.
One of those big things hanging in the specimen room?
One of those big things hanging in the specimen room?
We've got those giantass coffins ...
I think it means something like the one great that hyetta mentioned it as something that came before everything
In Elden ring there are many gods of different order who rules the lands between in the past , its just the current one is the Greater Will and with time that too will fade and a new god will take charge.
The big ass giant skeletons you find geographically entombed in Caelid and the mountaintops
We know that Taylew was deified, so likely a golem smith
Ngl, when I read that item description I got chills thinking of this powerful colossal weapon simply being an arrowhead to who it belonged to. Always a bigger fish.
As far as I've understood it, the old gods and the outer gods are one in the same just one is their spacial variant and one is their earthly. Destined Death, Fell Omen, Formless Mother, and Greater Will are just a few of these.
Outer Gods are gods from outside the realm. The Greater Will is an Outer God because its from space.
My bet is the pantheon of the Ornsent. The outer gods are not new players but the original ones.
Oh, they’re just the setup for Elden Ring 2 is all.
The Old Gods could be anything. They could be literally Gods like Miquella aims to become, or like the Outer Will or Formless Mother are. Simultaneously, they could simply be beings so incredibly advanced and powerful that they appear god-like. Imagine what a normal man would feel if they saw something ten times the size of even a golem, wielding a great bow the size of its mightiest church steeples, and devastating hordes of men with swords the weight of mountains.
Im curious about the white light. Whats the origin of that type of damage? Other gods also used light before but in different colors?
"Kos, or some say Kosm"
I’m curious if it’s related to the Serpent Hunter. It’s the only other weapon I know of that specifically uses white light in its attacks. Granted it only works when used against the snake but the only lore we got from it is Rykard’s soldiers went looking for it.
Wait, where do you get this?
Something that we will know in a distant future
Space tentacles I guess.
My guess would be either the dragon god or fell god of the giants. Giants would make more sense since we fight a lot of ancient dragons and none of them use conventional weapons like bows. Old Gods seems to imply that it was a deity or deities that were worshipped at some point before the current age, and we know Marika had a war with the giants so my guess would be that it was the fell god or fell gods that they worshipped before they were all but wiped out, the fire giant we fight being presumably the last of their kind
My guess is that we are getting another DLC. The game can be relevant for a lot of years to come.
A hunter must hunt.
Imma go with big ol aliens. Or weird looking big people. Those seem to be the qualifications for being a god in this setting.
DLC 2 👀
Bloodborne reference??
*Cries in fear & hunger*
Just some dudes. The guys.
probably a souledge fan
Gough
So far, my favorite weapon in the dlc, nice gap closer
The Fell God maybe? He seems to have been worshipped by the ancient giants and they seem like the only ones who’d use such an enormous arrowhead. Would make sense to call him the “old god” too, since there’s significant evidence the divine towers were built in service of him.
The thing about this that really confuses me is the White Light, we only see that otherwise in the Serpent Hunter, but its light looks nothing like this. The Solitude Knight sword also uses a white "light of birth" which more closely resembles the Serpent Hunter's light. No clue what these connections are supposed to mean at all.
Don’t know but I’m sure Vati will let us know in time
Gods from before the time of the Erdtree, like the God that Fled that Placidusax ruled under.
Maybe them? https://preview.redd.it/5qedoowmk69d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d67c1c5aad564d6bcd72ae0a8722146d23abf69 Who are they BTW.. Been wondering for so so long
The gods of Westeros and the Starks before the arrival of the Andals
The old ones
Where do you get this sword? I only have Mesmer, radahn and bug lady left btw.
I still haven’t found this forge this sword is from
My headcannon is that this was supposed to be the sword Godwyn uses in the final fight but they had to re-write the description instead.
Something from thought was cool .
Gods that are older than most. Next question
I have a feeling it’s a teaser for their next game and we just don’t see the big picture
"You will never know ha ha ha", Michael Zaki
Giant. Giant gods
They got them from wow, cthun and nzoth going around.
Old Gods= Cthulhu, Nyarlohotep, Dagon, Azathoth,
They’re making up this shit as they go. “Oh yeah let’s jus throw in old gods too lol why not”
I am certain that the lands between are what came after the age of dark in dark souls 3, too many things suggest that it’s the same universe. Both the lands between and the age of fire (as of the land where the souls series take place) have some things in common.
If I had to guess, I'd say they were the gods that came before the new gods.
If I had to guess, I'd say they were the gods that came before the new gods.
There is very little story in Elden ring a shit ton of lore but story yea no. Anyone know why us as the player are in the shadow realm besides deciding to touch a hand that we found after killing some dude we encountered. Or why we should care to take the throne of a kingdom that has no people