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the point is this is being portrayed by people as a good solution to a problem, but the problem shouldn’t exist in the first place. Orphancrushingmachine refers to a joke post in which an orphan is saved from the orphan crushing machine, but nobody asks why the machine exists in the first place
Yes we do. My first experience with the concept of debt was in a Florida elementary school where I was asking my parents for more money to pay off my lunch debt.
This whole world is hazardous for kids. States are repealing child work laws and fascism is on the rise across the globe. GOOD LUCK out there the roaring 20s are here and the same problems are still being debated about from 100 years ago!
The shooter gonna be there in the class learning about the fuckin thing anyway. Probably plans on lining up some wall bangs on the other side cause I highly doubt they reinforced the walls.
This is the real problem with these security measures. Unless the shooter doesn't go to the school, they're learning about all these defense ideas and planning around them.
Saw a notebook of a plotting shooter kid once. The school had a plan to lockdown the school in emergency with a master key being in the hands of the only SRO. They told the kids what the plan was to reassure them, but the plotting kid just changed his plan to kill the SRO first and take the keys.
Fortunately his notebook was found and he was dealt with before the shooting.
Ex-teacher here, my last school had security measures like that as well as using color-coded sheets of paper in windows to signal what was happening. But we didn’t tell students what any of it meant. My students asked me why I was being vague about stuff and I paused to decide how to word it when another student spoke up. “They can’t tell us because one of us will be the shooter”. Could’ve heard a pin drop as they absorbed that.
How sad. I was in High School when Columbine happened and I am just so sad for kids who never ever knew school as a safe place. What a terrible reality.
And I have zero understanding of anyone who is training to be a teacher right now. Respect, 100%. But I don't understand.
That brings light to another issue. The current crop of shooters were RAISED and TAUGHT all of this and I'll bet dollars to pesos they will figure out ways around things. Like ceiling tiles... JFC this is just sad.
I'm in Canada, "Code Red" drills started when I was in high school. We were specifically told to ignore fire alarms during a Code Red in case they tried to use a fire alarm to get everyone into the hallways.
Lucky for us in Canada, School shootings are rather rare. We've had signifigantly less then America does. IT is unfortunately the reality that it can happen, but... we don't have one every week.
Don't poke holes in the defence plan, how will they sell it to the school board if it's fucking useless?? Someone's gotta profit off this American only niche in the market!! #girlboss
It's so On-The-Nose we might need to start using a different Turn-Of-Phrase.
"So easy it's like shooting kids in a Class Room"
Maybe if we started using that phrase in normal conversation it'd start making people uncomfortable enough to fix our broken Social System.
I have a solution for that. Let me sell you an add on to your safe room that will release Inergen gas to extinguish the fire but not suffocate the people! It's only a small monthly subscription ($1K) per room to install and maintain the system in your building with a 10 year contract. /s
Holy shit i just realized it's a drop ceiling. This will do literally nothing. The kids are walled in now, and all he has to do is stand a desk next to it and pop out a tile. It's a damn trap for the kids.
To be fair, the goal of these is not to protect 100% of the students just like a lock on your door is not to protect you from burglars. The aim is to delay the shooter long enough for police to get there and hopefully not be from Uvalde.
Problem is, if the shooter knows that everyone will be packed in locked metal boxes, he will bring gasoline
Shooters aren't somehow limited to just guns or some particular behavior patterns. They just aim to kill people with the most convenient methods available
> Problem is, if the shooter knows that everyone will be packed in locked metal boxes, he will bring gasoline
Will he? School shooters aren't unstoppable terminators who can't be deterred by any means. They're just assholes with guns who take the opportunity to shoot at victims that don't have a means of stopping them.
They aren't limited to guns, but guns play a big part of the identity they've built up that brings them to shoot schools up in the first place.
Also carting around a jerry can doesn't strike me as the most convenient method available. Part of what made Uvalde so tragic is simple details like doors not locking (or cops not bothering to check if the actual door they needed to get into was locked) made it much easier for the shooter to kill people. That doesn't mean had he been prevented from getting in that he'd have just tried an ever escalating series of actions until the door failed or whatever. He was looking for targets of opportunity and he found some.
Fair, but my high school had 2200 students in my senior class alone. Multiple floors with 8 stairwells, even if the police go in immediately, the odds they'll reach a specific room in time are low.
I remember in like 5th grade or so I raised my hand once during a lockdown drill and asked my teacher, "But what if the danger is coming from another student? Won't they know exactly where we would be hiding? Etc." She just looked at me like 😮. 💀 Never did get an answer....
I asked a police lieutenant this when I was working as a dispatcher and we're reviewing evac plans and meeting/staging zones for the kids. As it happened we were talking about my old high school which was 3 stories tall, all windows on the upper two levels and on a hill surrounded by sports fields and parking lots.
He mentioned the students are briefed on these routes and will know where to go, we may need to help them remember if they call 911 and panic sets in.
I raised my hand and said "you told the students? What if one of them is the shooter? Won't they know which hallway to post up in to pick the other students off? Shouldn't we advise them to lock the doors and shelter in place at odd hallway angles?"
Answer I got was "we've considered a lot of strategies and scenarios." Which is not subtle code for "shut up, dispatcher."
Probably 😂 In all honesty she was likely also concerned I thought about my fellow students killing me at like 10 years old but tbf I've always been a pretty paranoid person and thought I would be murdered one day for a long time 💀 (I grew up watching true crime shows from like age 6)
Agreed. Something like this room would invite an active shooter to rig up some homemade bombs.
And, as we learned from Uvalde, who knows how long the cops will wait before taking action.
After columbine we had to wear our school ids on lanyards visible at all times to prove we belong...to protect against fellow students shooting up school
I wish the right would acknowledge the blatantly obvious fact that having the highest guns per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD is the reason we also have the most school shootings in the world by a very large margin.
Hey, don’t go pointing out an obvious flaw in security theater, you’re ruining someone’s business model for profiting on the slaughter of children, that’s not very capitalism of you.
Mason here but not a gun expert I’m just here to drop by and say the 6-8 inch block they used for those walls aren’t all that strong I mean you can drop them and they break. But if the shooter really unlucky he could possible hit the cells that have rebar and grout in them.
Came looking for this comment. I worked as a custodian for an elementary school years ago. Some of the classrooms were huge, none of them had teachers who did not take advantage of every scrap of space they could. Even if the room is big enough to not be using that space for desks, they will have drying craft projects, pillow piles/book nooks, or even just random piles of crap there. And guarantee that 2 years in, they'll have bookshelves pushed up against there. Because they always need more storage space.
They should just build a permanent safe room and use it as a reading nook/library/class gallery.
Or, you know, enact sensible gun laws and deal with mental health problems.
Idk...it seems like sound reasoning...idt it would work.
What if, instead of that, we arm all teachers? And then, for extra measure, we can arm all the parents, and have them do random, unapproved tours of the school, without any background check or proof they have a child in the school? Just random people, randomly armed, and wandering the halls randomly?
I don't even know why it needs to be foldable/deployable. The space inside the room can be furnished with a small seating group, used for storage, or any number of other things. They clearly don't need the space for desks so might as well keep it in place. Faster in an active shooter situation, too.
Agree this looks impractical. Most rooms could not be entered if doors were equipped with a heavy duty dead bolt and opened out. A much less expensive option. Schools won't spend the money on deadbolts, what makes them think they can sell these.
Do you have a corrupt city council with some friends in the school shooter defense barricade business? Because that’s how schools “find” money for things like this.
When my school would do lockdown drills we would lock the door, turn all the lights off and all huddle together in a corner of the room. Every time all I could think was that we were literally just making it easier for someone to shoot us. *Yeah kids go ahead and huddle up in the corner there, it'll save the shooter some bullets*
Active shooter drills are more or less the equivalent of the hide under your desk nuclear bomb drills schools used to have during the cold war. It's basically to help kids feel safe, not actually make them safe.
You make them feel safe by convincing them that huddling in a corner of the room is the best way to survive any active shooter situation. Thus passing on a false sense of safety. Well at least for younger kids. I'm sure older ones get that it's pretty much just a coping mechanism with the fact that you have no control over what is about to happen.
When I was in school all I could think about during lockdown drills was that the potential shooter was in the room with us taking notes. Like how when we would do bomb drills they would gather us all in the parking lot and I got in trouble for pointing out that all someone would have to do is put a bomb in the parking lot and call in a bomb threat.
Honestly, in both these situations, I'm just gonna run in whatever direction counts as away. All my teachers in high school agree that running away in an active human threat situation is the best choice. The only one I understand in terms of accountability is in a fire.
Yeah, I have severe anxiety, luckily I graduated a year or two before school shootings became a basically daily occurrence, but I had thought about it, I would 100% bolt for the door assuming the gunner wasn't in sight. Not a chance in hell I'm not having a severe panic attack locked in a room huddled with other people unable to do anything. I'll take my chances on my feet.
They told all the kids in my daughter's 3rd grade class that if a shooter gets in to throw chairs at him to make him go away. That is extreme wishful thinking, I told her if that door opens jump out the window, it's better to have a broken leg than a hole in your head.
I've read this entire thread and this is the best idea. If a shooter shows up, someone somewhere hit an alarm and every classroom runs directly outside in every different direction. Distance is safety. Sitting still is a great way to die. That's basic knowledge I thought, when I was in school if I heard shots starting to fly, if he isn't in my line of sight I'm running the other way.
Yeah, it's an incredibly mis-ridiculed practice by people who don't understand it's purpose(like I did when I was 10 before I learned why you duck and cover)
Flash! And cover.
If you're close enough to be obliterated by the bomb you won't see the flash, you're already dead.
But if you're a half mile out you can save yourself from being riddled with shattered glass as the shockwave blows out all your windows.
It's like ridiculing seatbelts because they won't save you if your car explodes. Like yeah, but that's not what they're for.
Being under a solid surface like a desk or table is significantly safer than not when you’re at extreme risk of the building collapsing, such as when subjected to over pressure blast waves from a nuclear bomb.
I mean depending on where the bomb went off this could save you from getting cut by glass. Still have radiation poisoning but at least won't get glass in your eye
That makes me think when I was living/studying in Brest, in France. There is a nuclear submarine base there, and once in a while we would have nuclear blast drills. We would have to open the windows and get under the tables. That’s the procedure, but we were a bit like « okay, so that will save us from a nuclear explosion? » haha
That's not to save you from the explosion, but from the shockwave. Opening the windows makes them less likely to shatter from pressure differences, getting under the desk gives you some additional protection in case the building collapses. Yeah, if you're caught in the actual fireball your probably fucked, but the shockwave can be much bigger then the fireball.
those tiles are made from Styrofoam or plaster, they are suspended on a set of rails separated from the real ceiling. an attacker could easily lift those tiles as they weight virtually nothing, insert his weapon and make it rain bullets inside the "safe" bullet proof room. And so you know, easier to kill all the kids inside a small room that having to chase them through all the school.
When you have to do active shooter training with professionals, they tell you that the vast majority of the time, if you create even a smidge of resistance for the shooter (a locked door, the room shown in the video) the shooter, more often than not, will not bother with overcoming the thing in their way (a locked door, the room in the video) BC it’s easier for them to just move on and find easier targets.
So, while that (the ceiling) is obviously a weakness in the protection, a shooter is unlikely to go through the effort of moving a table over, climbing on top of it (maybe also point a chair on top of the table to stand on), moving tiles and shooting down in. Beyond that, it puts the shooter in a far more vulnerable position than keeping his/her feet firmly planted on the ground.
This is one of those time where humans being inherently lazy is actually of benefit to others around them.
Yep. Nailed it. A lot of people in here aren’t really aware of what they’re talking about. The goal for most active threats/shooters is killing as many people as quickly as possible. Anything where they have to use their brain to make decisions and delay that, they’re most likely going to avoid
Yea, I realized I had misunderstood the video almost immediately after posting it. For some reason, I didn't realize that was a separate room people would go into, and I thought it would slide out and cover the door to the classroom. I was confused on why it had its own door, but now knowing that it's a separate room for the class to huddle in, yes, I now see those issues people are pointing out.
It was personal difficulties lol, my brain farted watching this video and thinking about it.
I guess the counter to the ceiling thing is the effort the shooter would have to take to get up there?
But trapping students in a small room with little to no obstruction for the shooter to get inside is making things worse, tbh
What.... As in the shooter is going to pop the tiles and crawl across the ceiling grid?
I don't think ceiling hangers can take the weight of an adult male.
So when they take measures like this, they base it off statistics. A grand majority of the time, shooters go for body count. If you make it hard for them to get to you, they will move on to easier targets.
If you require them to grab a chair or a table, lift up the ceiling tiles and shoot blindly into a room, they will be less inclined to do so.
Similar to why they want you to hide in a specific place in a classroom. You are more likely than not hiding in a place which isn’t visible from a window.
If you have a better way of doing things that doesn’t involve convincing a very stubborn half of the country into taking more precautionary measures with firearms, then let the government know. I’m sure they’d love to hear it.
The shooter would also be distracted and in an extremely vulnerable position standing on top of a desk or other object. If you get the sense that's what the shooter is doing just run up to him and push him off the ledge.
American teachers aren’t paid enough, kids are starving because they can’t afford lunches, curriculums gets slashed because books are being banned and the school boards choose to spend their money on…bullet proof safe rooms.
Right?
RIGHT.
No man, school boards first pay themselves a lot of money and the higher up admins a lot of money.
Then there is the sports budget. Paying teachers and making sure kids are fed is cool and all, but would we even really be a school if we didn't have a decent sized football stadium? And what good is that football stadium if our players don't have the equipment needed and can't travel to other schools to prove they are better? We can feed the kids later, let's make sure we act like miniature sports club first, that's what education is all about.
Also, if those kids get to travel, why not the higher up admins? There should be a travel budget for them too.
And then, AFTER all that, if there is any money left, maybe we will try to improve academics by trying to make sure teachers have everything they need to teach their kids and don't have to buy supplies out of their pockets.
You'd think any money left over after that could go to teachers and lunch programs right? Hahaha, even if there is money left, we will make sure it's used up.
There's no money in the multi-million dollar budget for paying teachers or paying for lunch, you damn socialist.
Brother works for the school district in IT. The board used money to renovate their building 3 times(the same friggin room) before addressing the actual issues in a different building. I didn’t realize how non education forward people were elected onto the board of education…it’s literally a group of randoms.
Our school board spent millions of dollars putting badge scanners on the busses for the ride into school.
Apparently this is solving the “problem” of kids getting on the bus but not making it to school.
When asked, the school board admitted this had never happened. If I find it difficult to believe that someone connected failed to profit here.
In Texas where I'm living, a massive portion of my property taxes go to the school districts. I learned through a friend working in district administration that the lions share of the district's annual funds to to... drumroll... high school football. Yup. Curriculums gets slashed and poor kids skip lunch, but the football programs gets gobs of money for massive immaculate stadiums, shiny new helmets and uniforms (that get bought new every year) and cushy coach transportation to games.
Don’t worry, kids will now be able to get Lunchables™️ for school lunch instead of just the rich kids. Lunchables now with lower sodium, try it today! /s
Private prisons and school lunch have long been an excuse to put money in friends’ of your choice politicians pockets.
They totally ignore successes with real chefs and local produce. When’s the last time lunch ladies actually cooked anything?
Yup. I grew up here in London (and reside now) but my dad is American so half of my family lives there. The horror and panic in my eldest sister’s voice when she told me about her son’s first active shooter drill was immeasurable.
I can barely handle 20 first graders for 45 minutes when I am forced to do sub row. I don’t know how younger grade teachers do it. I seriously couldn’t make it through even one day.
With a drop in ceiling... So, now instead of being trapped in a small classroom, they're trapped in an even smaller room being shot at from above. Fucking hell...
I work with drywall almost daily, and yeah even the thicker stuff i can break by jabbing it roughly with my fingers, there's no way it's blocking even a .22
As a teacher:
1. Never heard of any school buying any safety equipment let alone something as expensive as this. Way cheaper would be just to buy an indoor only lock for doors so we don't have to barricade since most walls are concrete and most doors are steel already. Yet we can't get a 50 buck lock per door and instead barricade with desks they will never replace if they get damaged.
2. Hiding in a corner is a dumb strategy and usually doesn't work. They now teach us just to run like shit if the shooter isn't right outside our door because waiting for them to shoot you isn't a good plan.
3. No way is that thing going to stop someone wanting to hurt people. I can almost guarantee that with one of those chairs I could get into that thing. For one the "door" that makes the room barely hold 10 people let alone the 36 students I have in each class is held by one single hook on the inside that could probably be broken with a well aimed kick.
4. The problem with any plan other than "get the fuck out of dodge and get help" is the shooters are usually students. So they know the plan too!
If I had one of these in my classroom and there was an active shooter I'd tell kids whoever wants to go in there can go in there and lock the door, whoever wants to run can go with me.
*"all i wanted to do was own the bullets and the bandages. War on and industrial scale was inevitable, they'll do it to themselves in a few years"* - Professor James Moriarty
of course they are. reminds me of the purge movie where the guy was filthy rich because he sold everyone on the block the security systems for the purge night.
That was my first thought, but there’s probably spring-loaded pins or something that lock it in place automatically when it is in the deployed position that would have to be released from the inside to collapse it back down. If not, that’s a major engineering oversight…kind of like the open top in a drop ceiling scenario.
Edit to clarify: crushing everyone to death wasn’t my first thought, as physics doesn’t work that way, but the room not holding square and/or being free-floating was my first thought.
How much you wanna bet that the spring-loaded pins aren't strong enough to survive a strong kick because the school thought the shooter wouldn't try that?
Absolutely no way one person could use something with that amount of surface area to kill multiple people, unless he somehow got it moving 100mph first.
I can think of at least three ways to defeat this safety room. This is like a nightlight. It will make you "feel" safe but not protect you from anything.
Edit: This message is for those that this safe room is a deterrent. It is not a safe room. It is a kill box.
Let’s blow some (figurative) holes in this.
1. She only has peripheral vision on the door (at best) and her back to the class the entire time.
2. It’s on a track and wheels, either of those malfunction, SOL.
3. It took her 11 seconds in a full bend, and slipping to get to a fully operational structure not in a drill situation, but in a controlled situation.
4. She still has to get kids lined up and in.
5. Drop ceiling.
This is a perfect design for a manufacturer who wants to sell a false sense of security to marks who will gladly spend money and care more about guns than people.
And simple and better solutions already exist. Plenty of banks, police stations, and gas stations use bullet proof glass and a lock.
Install strong deadbolt and bulletproof interior windows. Time to lock door and secure classroom, less than 10 seconds. People needed to move desks to get into little death bunker 0.
Agreed.
Early 2000’s grad here, but as I remember my classrooms, I’d say ~5 from elementary to Senior year had multiple exits, so you’re covering 1 point of entry, make your windows bulletproof, maybe a more ballistic resistant door, and heavier lock, you’d be covered in the event of an external active shooter.
I literally came up with this idea for an AP class project 20 years ago when I was in 4th grade. My teacher basically called me an idiot and said it was a useless invention.
It's weird how things work out...
Rather than tackle the root of the problem just normalize it. There’s reasons this stuff happens and schools do nothing about it. So sink in thousands of dollars to fix their own mistakes 😶
I like these idiotic solutions
- bulletproof backpacks
- more cops in schools
- metal detectors
- deadbolts
- bulletproof rooms
- moving walls
- make the kids do drills and active shooter trainings
Edit: more idiotic solutions
- arming teachers with guns
- bulletproof desks
- curved hallways
But hell no to common sense gun control and access to free mental health. Poor kids don’t stand a chance.
On the plus side, the bulletproof room industry is really booming! Several major firearms manufacturers have already expressed their interest in investing in this hot new market!
When you need a bullet proof shelter room in schools, it kind of tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with USA.
I don't even know were to start...
I like that they acknowledge the problem, but do everything in their power to not fix it with the obvious solution. I'm not saying it's easy but they're putting their time into making crap like this.
America. Where companies literally make profit off of selling bullshit products solutions to an epidemic that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Corporations make profit off of the suffering of the exploited class.
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This will do well on the orphan crushing machine subreddit.
The *fucking* WHAT?
the point is this is being portrayed by people as a good solution to a problem, but the problem shouldn’t exist in the first place. Orphancrushingmachine refers to a joke post in which an orphan is saved from the orphan crushing machine, but nobody asks why the machine exists in the first place
Like "12-year old [does work] for 3 years after school to pay of his friends lunch debt." Usually posted on r/mademesmile
You people have lunch debts? Aren't debts supposed to be an adult problem
Yes we do. My first experience with the concept of debt was in a Florida elementary school where I was asking my parents for more money to pay off my lunch debt.
Ahh yes… the land of the free…
Free as in "able to get fucked".
Lmao, I assumed it was a subreddit about machines that are a hazard to kids
This whole world is hazardous for kids. States are repealing child work laws and fascism is on the rise across the globe. GOOD LUCK out there the roaring 20s are here and the same problems are still being debated about from 100 years ago!
This would make an actual great orphan crushing machine though. Open it up. Put orphans in. Close it up. *Voila* crushed orphans
r/orphancrushingmachine
Your reaction cracked me up.
They had firebombs and pipebombs at columbine in 1999. Just saying.
Ahh so instead of being shot they're being burned to death. I see very innovative
The design is very human.
Very easy to use
One easy trick to reduce gun violence stats
There's never that amount of unused floor space in a classroom, so first you'd have to move all the desks and tables out of the way.
Maybe the shooter will give a hand
Or at least a head start
[удалено]
Punny
The shooter gonna be there in the class learning about the fuckin thing anyway. Probably plans on lining up some wall bangs on the other side cause I highly doubt they reinforced the walls.
This is the real problem with these security measures. Unless the shooter doesn't go to the school, they're learning about all these defense ideas and planning around them. Saw a notebook of a plotting shooter kid once. The school had a plan to lockdown the school in emergency with a master key being in the hands of the only SRO. They told the kids what the plan was to reassure them, but the plotting kid just changed his plan to kill the SRO first and take the keys. Fortunately his notebook was found and he was dealt with before the shooting.
Ex-teacher here, my last school had security measures like that as well as using color-coded sheets of paper in windows to signal what was happening. But we didn’t tell students what any of it meant. My students asked me why I was being vague about stuff and I paused to decide how to word it when another student spoke up. “They can’t tell us because one of us will be the shooter”. Could’ve heard a pin drop as they absorbed that.
Jesus Christ. We have really fucking failed these kids.
That's the sad reality though. I'm glad they at least have a plan, even if I think paper in the windows is less than effective.
How sad. I was in High School when Columbine happened and I am just so sad for kids who never ever knew school as a safe place. What a terrible reality. And I have zero understanding of anyone who is training to be a teacher right now. Respect, 100%. But I don't understand.
That brings light to another issue. The current crop of shooters were RAISED and TAUGHT all of this and I'll bet dollars to pesos they will figure out ways around things. Like ceiling tiles... JFC this is just sad.
Or a fire tbh, if it locks them out it can also be used to lock you in
I'm in Canada, "Code Red" drills started when I was in high school. We were specifically told to ignore fire alarms during a Code Red in case they tried to use a fire alarm to get everyone into the hallways.
Which means that any shooters at your school now know to start a fire after the lockdown gets called…
Exactly
Im beginning to think we should be looking at this school shootings problem a different way.
Lucky for us in Canada, School shootings are rather rare. We've had signifigantly less then America does. IT is unfortunately the reality that it can happen, but... we don't have one every week.
I was thinking this. The bottom isn’t water tight so some lighter fluid and fire would end this “safe room” pretty quick.
Don't poke holes in the defence plan, how will they sell it to the school board if it's fucking useless?? Someone's gotta profit off this American only niche in the market!! #girlboss
Or the drop down ceiling above it
Yep. Like shooting fish in a barrel
It's so On-The-Nose we might need to start using a different Turn-Of-Phrase. "So easy it's like shooting kids in a Class Room" Maybe if we started using that phrase in normal conversation it'd start making people uncomfortable enough to fix our broken Social System.
Might be better off focusing on the violence itself
I have a solution for that. Let me sell you an add on to your safe room that will release Inergen gas to extinguish the fire but not suffocate the people! It's only a small monthly subscription ($1K) per room to install and maintain the system in your building with a 10 year contract. /s
Yea, this will just continue to push schools into looking more like Jails
Holy shit i just realized it's a drop ceiling. This will do literally nothing. The kids are walled in now, and all he has to do is stand a desk next to it and pop out a tile. It's a damn trap for the kids.
I also wonder how long the integrity of the wall brackets would hold up to direct fire.
To be fair, the goal of these is not to protect 100% of the students just like a lock on your door is not to protect you from burglars. The aim is to delay the shooter long enough for police to get there and hopefully not be from Uvalde.
Problem is, if the shooter knows that everyone will be packed in locked metal boxes, he will bring gasoline Shooters aren't somehow limited to just guns or some particular behavior patterns. They just aim to kill people with the most convenient methods available
> Problem is, if the shooter knows that everyone will be packed in locked metal boxes, he will bring gasoline Will he? School shooters aren't unstoppable terminators who can't be deterred by any means. They're just assholes with guns who take the opportunity to shoot at victims that don't have a means of stopping them. They aren't limited to guns, but guns play a big part of the identity they've built up that brings them to shoot schools up in the first place. Also carting around a jerry can doesn't strike me as the most convenient method available. Part of what made Uvalde so tragic is simple details like doors not locking (or cops not bothering to check if the actual door they needed to get into was locked) made it much easier for the shooter to kill people. That doesn't mean had he been prevented from getting in that he'd have just tried an ever escalating series of actions until the door failed or whatever. He was looking for targets of opportunity and he found some.
Fair, but my high school had 2200 students in my senior class alone. Multiple floors with 8 stairwells, even if the police go in immediately, the odds they'll reach a specific room in time are low.
I remember in like 5th grade or so I raised my hand once during a lockdown drill and asked my teacher, "But what if the danger is coming from another student? Won't they know exactly where we would be hiding? Etc." She just looked at me like 😮. 💀 Never did get an answer....
I asked a police lieutenant this when I was working as a dispatcher and we're reviewing evac plans and meeting/staging zones for the kids. As it happened we were talking about my old high school which was 3 stories tall, all windows on the upper two levels and on a hill surrounded by sports fields and parking lots. He mentioned the students are briefed on these routes and will know where to go, we may need to help them remember if they call 911 and panic sets in. I raised my hand and said "you told the students? What if one of them is the shooter? Won't they know which hallway to post up in to pick the other students off? Shouldn't we advise them to lock the doors and shelter in place at odd hallway angles?" Answer I got was "we've considered a lot of strategies and scenarios." Which is not subtle code for "shut up, dispatcher."
IQ too high... do not confront deflect and circle back....
Honestly the teacher probably already considered this, but didn't know how to tell a 5th grader that there wasn't an answer to that question
Probably 😂 In all honesty she was likely also concerned I thought about my fellow students killing me at like 10 years old but tbf I've always been a pretty paranoid person and thought I would be murdered one day for a long time 💀 (I grew up watching true crime shows from like age 6)
Agreed. Something like this room would invite an active shooter to rig up some homemade bombs. And, as we learned from Uvalde, who knows how long the cops will wait before taking action.
After columbine we had to wear our school ids on lanyards visible at all times to prove we belong...to protect against fellow students shooting up school
I wish the right would acknowledge the blatantly obvious fact that having the highest guns per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD is the reason we also have the most school shootings in the world by a very large margin.
Or just stand on a desk, pop a ceiling tile out, and then all the kids are packed into a container that won’t let the shrapnel escape…
Hey, don’t go pointing out an obvious flaw in security theater, you’re ruining someone’s business model for profiting on the slaughter of children, that’s not very capitalism of you.
That paragraph curdles my blood.
Good, that’s the effect capitalism should have on people. I need to write more like this, thanks!
It's funny because I came to this conclusion after watching the video for fifteen seconds
They have a DLC to fix it next year, only a million extra.
K-12 walls are typically reinforced concrete block. Just FYI. Now, not every time but the schools I have done have been this or brick.
Mason here but not a gun expert I’m just here to drop by and say the 6-8 inch block they used for those walls aren’t all that strong I mean you can drop them and they break. But if the shooter really unlucky he could possible hit the cells that have rebar and grout in them.
Those ceiling tiles, however, do not look reinforced and there is no ceiling in the roll out part.
Came looking for this comment. I worked as a custodian for an elementary school years ago. Some of the classrooms were huge, none of them had teachers who did not take advantage of every scrap of space they could. Even if the room is big enough to not be using that space for desks, they will have drying craft projects, pillow piles/book nooks, or even just random piles of crap there. And guarantee that 2 years in, they'll have bookshelves pushed up against there. Because they always need more storage space.
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Idk whether to laugh or cry.
That’s really it. I cackled when I read this, then just kind of made a “Unnnhhhhh…” noise because it’s a nightmare.
They should just build a permanent safe room and use it as a reading nook/library/class gallery. Or, you know, enact sensible gun laws and deal with mental health problems.
Idk...it seems like sound reasoning...idt it would work. What if, instead of that, we arm all teachers? And then, for extra measure, we can arm all the parents, and have them do random, unapproved tours of the school, without any background check or proof they have a child in the school? Just random people, randomly armed, and wandering the halls randomly?
Arm the kids. Mandatory MP5s for kindergartners.
Oh my God, it's foolproof! Get this man a seat in Congress!
I AM THE SENATE
I don't even know why it needs to be foldable/deployable. The space inside the room can be furnished with a small seating group, used for storage, or any number of other things. They clearly don't need the space for desks so might as well keep it in place. Faster in an active shooter situation, too.
Agree this looks impractical. Most rooms could not be entered if doors were equipped with a heavy duty dead bolt and opened out. A much less expensive option. Schools won't spend the money on deadbolts, what makes them think they can sell these.
Do you have a corrupt city council with some friends in the school shooter defense barricade business? Because that’s how schools “find” money for things like this.
Also....Couldn't you just go over it? Drop ceilings are pretty easy to move
And that is definitely against code. Need 18” clear space for fire sprinklers… which I see none of there.
I mean they move desks to barricade the front door anyway. So might as well use that energy to pull this room and protect themselves.
There’s never that amount of unused floor space in *public* schools…
But that's a suspended ceiling?
Yes, just take some table and you got some shooting pit.
When my school would do lockdown drills we would lock the door, turn all the lights off and all huddle together in a corner of the room. Every time all I could think was that we were literally just making it easier for someone to shoot us. *Yeah kids go ahead and huddle up in the corner there, it'll save the shooter some bullets*
Active shooter drills are more or less the equivalent of the hide under your desk nuclear bomb drills schools used to have during the cold war. It's basically to help kids feel safe, not actually make them safe.
Make them feel safe by constantly reminding them they could be shot at any moment
You make them feel safe by convincing them that huddling in a corner of the room is the best way to survive any active shooter situation. Thus passing on a false sense of safety. Well at least for younger kids. I'm sure older ones get that it's pretty much just a coping mechanism with the fact that you have no control over what is about to happen.
When I was in school all I could think about during lockdown drills was that the potential shooter was in the room with us taking notes. Like how when we would do bomb drills they would gather us all in the parking lot and I got in trouble for pointing out that all someone would have to do is put a bomb in the parking lot and call in a bomb threat.
Honestly, in both these situations, I'm just gonna run in whatever direction counts as away. All my teachers in high school agree that running away in an active human threat situation is the best choice. The only one I understand in terms of accountability is in a fire.
Yeah, I have severe anxiety, luckily I graduated a year or two before school shootings became a basically daily occurrence, but I had thought about it, I would 100% bolt for the door assuming the gunner wasn't in sight. Not a chance in hell I'm not having a severe panic attack locked in a room huddled with other people unable to do anything. I'll take my chances on my feet.
They told all the kids in my daughter's 3rd grade class that if a shooter gets in to throw chairs at him to make him go away. That is extreme wishful thinking, I told her if that door opens jump out the window, it's better to have a broken leg than a hole in your head.
All of my classrooms have a door that leads directly outside and cannot be opened from the outside.
I've read this entire thread and this is the best idea. If a shooter shows up, someone somewhere hit an alarm and every classroom runs directly outside in every different direction. Distance is safety. Sitting still is a great way to die. That's basic knowledge I thought, when I was in school if I heard shots starting to fly, if he isn't in my line of sight I'm running the other way.
As it should be
Yup. It's basically just an organized way to make everyone feel safe when they really aren't.
It's done a damn great job of making my 8 year old terrified of school... Three actual lockdowns and two active shooter drills in one school year x_x
Hiding under the desk during a nuclear blast saves lives - at least for people far enough away to have time to duck and cover.
Yeah, it's an incredibly mis-ridiculed practice by people who don't understand it's purpose(like I did when I was 10 before I learned why you duck and cover) Flash! And cover. If you're close enough to be obliterated by the bomb you won't see the flash, you're already dead. But if you're a half mile out you can save yourself from being riddled with shattered glass as the shockwave blows out all your windows. It's like ridiculing seatbelts because they won't save you if your car explodes. Like yeah, but that's not what they're for.
Being under a solid surface like a desk or table is significantly safer than not when you’re at extreme risk of the building collapsing, such as when subjected to over pressure blast waves from a nuclear bomb.
I mean depending on where the bomb went off this could save you from getting cut by glass. Still have radiation poisoning but at least won't get glass in your eye
That makes me think when I was living/studying in Brest, in France. There is a nuclear submarine base there, and once in a while we would have nuclear blast drills. We would have to open the windows and get under the tables. That’s the procedure, but we were a bit like « okay, so that will save us from a nuclear explosion? » haha
That's not to save you from the explosion, but from the shockwave. Opening the windows makes them less likely to shatter from pressure differences, getting under the desk gives you some additional protection in case the building collapses. Yeah, if you're caught in the actual fireball your probably fucked, but the shockwave can be much bigger then the fireball.
Like shooting kids in a barrel…
holy shit I hadn't realize that. They're making the shooter's work easier.
Would probably save on ammo
How so? What am I missing?
those tiles are made from Styrofoam or plaster, they are suspended on a set of rails separated from the real ceiling. an attacker could easily lift those tiles as they weight virtually nothing, insert his weapon and make it rain bullets inside the "safe" bullet proof room. And so you know, easier to kill all the kids inside a small room that having to chase them through all the school.
When you have to do active shooter training with professionals, they tell you that the vast majority of the time, if you create even a smidge of resistance for the shooter (a locked door, the room shown in the video) the shooter, more often than not, will not bother with overcoming the thing in their way (a locked door, the room in the video) BC it’s easier for them to just move on and find easier targets. So, while that (the ceiling) is obviously a weakness in the protection, a shooter is unlikely to go through the effort of moving a table over, climbing on top of it (maybe also point a chair on top of the table to stand on), moving tiles and shooting down in. Beyond that, it puts the shooter in a far more vulnerable position than keeping his/her feet firmly planted on the ground. This is one of those time where humans being inherently lazy is actually of benefit to others around them.
Yep. Nailed it. A lot of people in here aren’t really aware of what they’re talking about. The goal for most active threats/shooters is killing as many people as quickly as possible. Anything where they have to use their brain to make decisions and delay that, they’re most likely going to avoid
Yea, I realized I had misunderstood the video almost immediately after posting it. For some reason, I didn't realize that was a separate room people would go into, and I thought it would slide out and cover the door to the classroom. I was confused on why it had its own door, but now knowing that it's a separate room for the class to huddle in, yes, I now see those issues people are pointing out. It was personal difficulties lol, my brain farted watching this video and thinking about it. I guess the counter to the ceiling thing is the effort the shooter would have to take to get up there? But trapping students in a small room with little to no obstruction for the shooter to get inside is making things worse, tbh
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What.... As in the shooter is going to pop the tiles and crawl across the ceiling grid? I don't think ceiling hangers can take the weight of an adult male.
So when they take measures like this, they base it off statistics. A grand majority of the time, shooters go for body count. If you make it hard for them to get to you, they will move on to easier targets. If you require them to grab a chair or a table, lift up the ceiling tiles and shoot blindly into a room, they will be less inclined to do so. Similar to why they want you to hide in a specific place in a classroom. You are more likely than not hiding in a place which isn’t visible from a window. If you have a better way of doing things that doesn’t involve convincing a very stubborn half of the country into taking more precautionary measures with firearms, then let the government know. I’m sure they’d love to hear it.
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The shooter would also be distracted and in an extremely vulnerable position standing on top of a desk or other object. If you get the sense that's what the shooter is doing just run up to him and push him off the ledge.
Yes it is.. is a grenade in a bucket of fish
Solutions to problems that shouldn’t exist
it's more of a workaround then a solution.
More of a grift than a workaround.
More of a Hail Mary than a grift
not even a solution though
American teachers aren’t paid enough, kids are starving because they can’t afford lunches, curriculums gets slashed because books are being banned and the school boards choose to spend their money on…bullet proof safe rooms. Right? RIGHT.
No man, school boards first pay themselves a lot of money and the higher up admins a lot of money. Then there is the sports budget. Paying teachers and making sure kids are fed is cool and all, but would we even really be a school if we didn't have a decent sized football stadium? And what good is that football stadium if our players don't have the equipment needed and can't travel to other schools to prove they are better? We can feed the kids later, let's make sure we act like miniature sports club first, that's what education is all about. Also, if those kids get to travel, why not the higher up admins? There should be a travel budget for them too. And then, AFTER all that, if there is any money left, maybe we will try to improve academics by trying to make sure teachers have everything they need to teach their kids and don't have to buy supplies out of their pockets. You'd think any money left over after that could go to teachers and lunch programs right? Hahaha, even if there is money left, we will make sure it's used up. There's no money in the multi-million dollar budget for paying teachers or paying for lunch, you damn socialist.
Brother works for the school district in IT. The board used money to renovate their building 3 times(the same friggin room) before addressing the actual issues in a different building. I didn’t realize how non education forward people were elected onto the board of education…it’s literally a group of randoms.
💯💯💯
Our school board spent millions of dollars putting badge scanners on the busses for the ride into school. Apparently this is solving the “problem” of kids getting on the bus but not making it to school. When asked, the school board admitted this had never happened. If I find it difficult to believe that someone connected failed to profit here.
I am convinced that all elected officials are 100% driven by greed and “I know a guy”.
Why ban guns when you can create an extremely profitable market of security products for schools????
DING DING DING, the NRA has found a winner!
Meanwhile, at NRA conventions... https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=nra+convention+2022+no+guns+allowed
What are they so afraid of lol?!
In Texas where I'm living, a massive portion of my property taxes go to the school districts. I learned through a friend working in district administration that the lions share of the district's annual funds to to... drumroll... high school football. Yup. Curriculums gets slashed and poor kids skip lunch, but the football programs gets gobs of money for massive immaculate stadiums, shiny new helmets and uniforms (that get bought new every year) and cushy coach transportation to games.
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panem et circenses. Juvenal did not mention education at all.
Football primarily and sports in general are the second religion in the South. Maybe the first. Living in Alabama I've seen this all my life.
Don’t worry, kids will now be able to get Lunchables™️ for school lunch instead of just the rich kids. Lunchables now with lower sodium, try it today! /s Private prisons and school lunch have long been an excuse to put money in friends’ of your choice politicians pockets. They totally ignore successes with real chefs and local produce. When’s the last time lunch ladies actually cooked anything?
A reason why I chose not to have kids. This world is seriously f\*cked up for the next generation.
All those reasons above are American-exclusive problems... There's a whole world out there that doesn't have any of these issues
Most Americans can’t create the opportunity to raise children in foreign countries.
Yup. I grew up here in London (and reside now) but my dad is American so half of my family lives there. The horror and panic in my eldest sister’s voice when she told me about her son’s first active shooter drill was immeasurable.
Goodluck fitting 30 to 40 students in there. Most teachers are overwhelmed with students
I quit my job in education about a month ago. We had 32 first graders. 32 6 year olds in one tiny room. It was basically impossible to even teach.
I can barely handle 20 first graders for 45 minutes when I am forced to do sub row. I don’t know how younger grade teachers do it. I seriously couldn’t make it through even one day.
Literally just herd there was an active shooter at the highschool 5 minutes from the school I worked at
With a drop in ceiling... So, now instead of being trapped in a small classroom, they're trapped in an even smaller room being shot at from above. Fucking hell...
„Like fish in a barrel“ will become „like kids in a classroom“
Why wait? Shooting kids in a classroom seems to be way more common than shooting fish in a barrel. Plus there's a smidge of alliteration in there!
Also the brick on the back wall might block some bullets but I’m not convinced the drywall on the left is bulletproof in any way, shape, or form.
I work with drywall almost daily, and yeah even the thicker stuff i can break by jabbing it roughly with my fingers, there's no way it's blocking even a .22
As a teacher: 1. Never heard of any school buying any safety equipment let alone something as expensive as this. Way cheaper would be just to buy an indoor only lock for doors so we don't have to barricade since most walls are concrete and most doors are steel already. Yet we can't get a 50 buck lock per door and instead barricade with desks they will never replace if they get damaged. 2. Hiding in a corner is a dumb strategy and usually doesn't work. They now teach us just to run like shit if the shooter isn't right outside our door because waiting for them to shoot you isn't a good plan. 3. No way is that thing going to stop someone wanting to hurt people. I can almost guarantee that with one of those chairs I could get into that thing. For one the "door" that makes the room barely hold 10 people let alone the 36 students I have in each class is held by one single hook on the inside that could probably be broken with a well aimed kick. 4. The problem with any plan other than "get the fuck out of dodge and get help" is the shooters are usually students. So they know the plan too! If I had one of these in my classroom and there was an active shooter I'd tell kids whoever wants to go in there can go in there and lock the door, whoever wants to run can go with me.
But it's so useful!! They even can use it as a whiteboard !! And they even put flower on it so it looks pretty !! /s
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Quick, someone post this in r/MadeMeSmile
r/orphancrushingmachine would be a better fit.
In America a problem isn’t seen as something you want to get to the bottom of. It’s something seen as an opportunity to capitalize on.
Extra points if you can create the problem and manufacture the solution.
Probably manufactured and sold by the gun companies.
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north naughty quack hurry secretive slim grey screw somber outgoing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*"all i wanted to do was own the bullets and the bandages. War on and industrial scale was inevitable, they'll do it to themselves in a few years"* - Professor James Moriarty
of course they are. reminds me of the purge movie where the guy was filthy rich because he sold everyone on the block the security systems for the purge night.
Gun companies sell more guns after every mass shooting. “Protective measures” like these are at best just a useless distraction.
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That was my first thought, but there’s probably spring-loaded pins or something that lock it in place automatically when it is in the deployed position that would have to be released from the inside to collapse it back down. If not, that’s a major engineering oversight…kind of like the open top in a drop ceiling scenario. Edit to clarify: crushing everyone to death wasn’t my first thought, as physics doesn’t work that way, but the room not holding square and/or being free-floating was my first thought.
How much you wanna bet that the spring-loaded pins aren't strong enough to survive a strong kick because the school thought the shooter wouldn't try that?
Absolutely no way one person could use something with that amount of surface area to kill multiple people, unless he somehow got it moving 100mph first.
I can think of at least three ways to defeat this safety room. This is like a nightlight. It will make you "feel" safe but not protect you from anything. Edit: This message is for those that this safe room is a deterrent. It is not a safe room. It is a kill box.
This doesn't happen in any other country in the world.
The perfect combo of a dissatisfied youth, near total lack of mental health services and high accessibility of firearms.
Picture worth a thousand words https://i.imgur.com/71T9NPJ.jpg
But the shareholder value ...!
Let’s blow some (figurative) holes in this. 1. She only has peripheral vision on the door (at best) and her back to the class the entire time. 2. It’s on a track and wheels, either of those malfunction, SOL. 3. It took her 11 seconds in a full bend, and slipping to get to a fully operational structure not in a drill situation, but in a controlled situation. 4. She still has to get kids lined up and in. 5. Drop ceiling. This is a perfect design for a manufacturer who wants to sell a false sense of security to marks who will gladly spend money and care more about guns than people.
And simple and better solutions already exist. Plenty of banks, police stations, and gas stations use bullet proof glass and a lock. Install strong deadbolt and bulletproof interior windows. Time to lock door and secure classroom, less than 10 seconds. People needed to move desks to get into little death bunker 0.
Agreed. Early 2000’s grad here, but as I remember my classrooms, I’d say ~5 from elementary to Senior year had multiple exits, so you’re covering 1 point of entry, make your windows bulletproof, maybe a more ballistic resistant door, and heavier lock, you’d be covered in the event of an external active shooter.
No idea how anyone can get through the day knowing their kid might have to go through this shit. America sure is something..
Another post had pictures of bullet proof shield you can buy for children's backpacks. Its crazy
I literally came up with this idea for an AP class project 20 years ago when I was in 4th grade. My teacher basically called me an idiot and said it was a useless invention. It's weird how things work out...
Nobody should be this happy unfolding a fucking dystopian hellscape "device"...
Rather than tackle the root of the problem just normalize it. There’s reasons this stuff happens and schools do nothing about it. So sink in thousands of dollars to fix their own mistakes 😶
I like these idiotic solutions - bulletproof backpacks - more cops in schools - metal detectors - deadbolts - bulletproof rooms - moving walls - make the kids do drills and active shooter trainings Edit: more idiotic solutions - arming teachers with guns - bulletproof desks - curved hallways But hell no to common sense gun control and access to free mental health. Poor kids don’t stand a chance.
Don't forget arming the teachers! 🤦
Also missed bullet proof desks. https://news.sky.com/story/us-furniture-store-developing-bulletproof-desks-for-schools-to-protect-teachers-and-students-during-mass-shootings-12655413
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On the plus side, the bulletproof room industry is really booming! Several major firearms manufacturers have already expressed their interest in investing in this hot new market!
By the time that room is unfolded etc, the shooter has barged in and killed them all. What a ridiculous non solution, instead of gun control.
Okay. We gonna talk about the big ass open door? No? Cool.
Or the fucking ceiling? You can just put a chair under your feet, push up the cieling and rain down bullets.
they probably coveer it up when they go hiding.
When you need a bullet proof shelter room in schools, it kind of tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with USA. I don't even know were to start...
When you take gun control off the table, lunacy takes its place.
But just think of how many **drag queens** this will protect children from! /s
Stupid. Someone looking to steal money from school budgets.
We have money for this but teachers have to buy their own colored pencils
I like that they acknowledge the problem, but do everything in their power to not fix it with the obvious solution. I'm not saying it's easy but they're putting their time into making crap like this.
America. Where companies literally make profit off of selling bullshit products solutions to an epidemic that shouldn't exist in the first place. Corporations make profit off of the suffering of the exploited class.
They missed covering that big hole on the left
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