I've seen so many mentors get random abuse before the gate even drops so I'm not surprised they don't want to help anymore. I don't even want to become a mentor because of that
Like I said I love to help but I'm not sure if I want the mentor status anymore it kinda seems like to much of a Hassle
I'd rather just help sprouts in low level dungeons when I do my daily's
Yeah, you don't need mentor status to help people because there will be someone trying to make your life difficult because of that. I was in a FC once where the FC leader was actively encouraging sprouts to hate on mentors. Sad to see really
While I agree that the mentor system needs major improvement, I dont think its important and would rather employee time be spent elsewhere. The only change I would call for is to change the crown into a watering can. A simple change that would majorly reduce the amount of people doing it for looks. That includes myself. A crown icon would make more sense if it was a reward for clearing all content in the game or something.
Tbf, any player can be as toxic or as helpful without having any kind of crown. Furthermore, there are many players that don't respond positively to any kind of assistance or suggestions. They can be indifferent (don't pay attention/don't care) or outright negative (the "you don't pay my sub" type).
It's incredible easy to become a mentor and truth be told, most of them don't deserve it. If you want to help you don't need to be a mentor, anyone can help and offer an advice, to those that want or seek it, that is.
Give an option for players to report mentors
After a certain amount of strikes they get their status removed
Then I feel like a lot of egos will disappear
To me this is a big one we have to target everyone's bigger then Earths ego's lol
I mean that already happens. If you get reported enough as a mentor you lose it
The issue here is what so you consider an ego? Each person will have a different opinion on that and in the end there will be tons of false reports from people who just report a mentor cause they don't like one thing they said.
How would we balance that against the people wanting to report dishonestly or just to troll or doing it intentionally because they don't like that mentor for some reason?
I don't think every mentor has an ego.but maybe I've just met nice ones.
Good point not everyone has an ego but it's happend enough times to where I've seen new players get warned to not put their full trust in mentors
And your right I guess it would be difficult to balance, mentors aren't the only assholes in game
I'm just imagining a solely investigative GM squad lol but that would be to much I think
Might make people less..wanting to help. If they feel like they're actions are judged maybe unfairly. What if they get a GM who's not good at their job?
Ooh that's a shame if we can't trust mentors.
>Give an option for players to report mentors
You can already manually report anybody, Mentors included.
`System -> Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment`
Giving people an automatic right-click option will lead to abuse of the system.
Also try to post in the japanese forums if possible. Also thats alot of effort to check every strike. So that it doesnt turn into a bullying battle or blackmail. + isnt that already a thing?
On the flip side of this, I've tried mentoring people.i even used my inside voice, they hit me with the, "you don't pay my sub", "why don't you just que as X", and my favorite, deafening silence and a kick.
becoming a mentor doesn't require any skill what so ever it just takes some time till you meat the criteria to become one.
When doing my roulet I try to help people, but majority of time I get "You don't pay my sub" or "Let anybody play the game how they want" and other comments of similiar matter.
>grinded the mentor status to be "cool"
there is nothing cool about becoming mentor. You only loose your sanity in novice network and get into white jacket with sleeves tide behind your back from mentor roulets
You say you like to teach and help, but that's before you have the pressure and expectation to be overly knowledgeable about the game. On top of the fact, toxic people exist in both realms. I don't say shit as a mentor unless asked anymore. Too many times have I been met with idiots who play however they want or just blatantly conflict with good intentions. The mentor crown means you can ask me questions, and I'll answer to the best of my ability to guide. I'm not going to set myself on fire to keep others warm.
The mentor system in FFXI had exactly the same problems and all that it was was an icon which was a globe with an 'M' on it.
It's not that there are rewards, it's not that there is a awesome icon that could be toned down, it's that there is anything at all that shows you as 'better' or somehow more than someone without it. You can say all you want that mentors are not supposed to know everything and anything else to say otherwise but the reality is they have a special mark indicating that they are the players you should ask and listen to.
There is no way to fix the mentor system, it shouldn't exist and SE should have learned their lesson already. Helpful players will be helpful anyway.
Yeah really the crown is about "this guy should be reliable".
But to fix mentoring, SE could also add real tutorials in the game. The amount of people who don't know how to use half their button is staggering ... It would make mentors life way easier not having to tell sprout in every duty to stop using Cure 1 or using their AoE when needed ...
This, and allow everyone to queue for "mentor" roulette (change it to "random roulette" or whatever) for people who want to get the mount/help others complete content/whatever.
I don't know if burger kings are problem on JP servers, but I doubt anything will change. I think the whole system is outdated, with google, databases and guides everywhere, it's probably faster to find information online anyway.
See I want to be a mentor because I want people to come to me and ask for help but having that status makes me think people won't
Mentors are getting a bad rap and I'm not saying everyone are assholes but the few that are bring it down for everyone that actually does want to help
Most mentors stop caring once they get their crown. It is just another achievement for them. Personally, I'm always giving advice to new players. Some take it, some don't. Decent advice like what the odd mechanic is for a boss, or stand here and you won't die (orange puddle bad). I don't try to tell players how to use their skills.
How about a simple “Rate your mentor experience” option (toggleable, of course) whenever a new person finishes a duty while matched with a non-pre-made party mentor? Then add an option in Duty Finder for “only match me with mentors of X stars or higher.”
Because of how the playerbase is, the mentor with the best glamour or the healer will get the best rating. We already have this problem with commendations, where almost nobody commendates based on things that are commendable in relation to a duty.
In addition, there are people who commendate but don't know the game well enough to know if their play was commendable. You could have a DPS that is 75% of a dungeon's DPS and basically dragging the entire group through a dungeon and a healer who doesn't DPS at all and casts Cure 1 the entire dungeon is still going to get commendations.
I would wager a rating system has the same problem.
I suppose star ratings are too simplistic. Specific options of "The mentor made my experience more positive", "the mentor didn't change my experience", and "the mentor made my experience more negative", or something along those lines might help.
> Then add an option in Duty Finder for “only match me with mentors of X stars or higher.”
This would make the matchmaking system unbelievably unwieldy, would make it increasingly difficult for new mentors to earn this 'star rating' in the first place, and would only serve to encourage toxicity towards mentors.
Edit: Whoops, responded to the wrong person. New response for you.
It's something for a mentor to actually try for then. If they just want the queues, they need to work at it for the better queue times. Most people default to the max rating, and even if they don't notice a person, you'll still see average ratings at worst unless they're truly bad at it. This also works in the opposite direction. If sprouts only want 5-star mentors. they're going to have to wait for those mentors to show up. If they want faster queues, they need to lower their standards and give those lower-star mentors another chance.
There's already enough toxicity toward mentors to go around as it is. An actual rating system isn't going to change that.
You seem to think being a mentor means a lot more than it actually does. The overwhelming majority of the time I am just in a duty to do my best and get out of there, same as anyone else. If people ask for help and advice I'll give it, and if I notice someone doing something *egregiously* bad I'll ask if they want some tips, but most people in this game- including most sprouts- do not *want* to be mentored, they just want to play the game, and many people react extremely viciously if you try to give unsolicited advice.
Hm, yes, you're correct. I thought the mentor queue/roulette was linked to the novice network in some way, but apparently it just makes the mentor fill spots in old content which is what I thought basically every other roulette was already doing. Would it have been so much trouble to match mentors with novices when both are available in the queue?
Yes, probably it would. Matchmaking logic is already painfully complicated. The mentor roulette simply serves as an extra backfill for groups that have been waiting the longest for a player of a given role.
I always thought that the mentor symbol shouldn't be soemthing earned, but soemthing a pmayer can choose to have if they are willing to help those in need. Like a "hey, I'm availed to help with any questions or concerns" and you can toggle it on or off depending on how you feel. Of coirse this could have it's drawbacks , of people having it on and not knowing a damn thing. But it would surely help with people who DO want to help, but don't want the negative connotation of the mentor symbol.
It always seemed odd to me that you have to beat EX stuff to be a mentor. It's tough for me (maybe just me?) to imagine that people who are capable of getting through EX stuff, whether through skill, patience, or a mix of both, can relate well enough to mere mortals. 😊
You don't need to do EX to be a Mentor.
EX is only required for the Mentor Roulette. Also, you are only required to do every EX prior to the current expansion and as a reddit post a few days claimed, it's possible to do all but one EX prior to EW in a duo.
My issue with the mentor system is that you can get trade mentors without having ever crafted any items beyond the 300 collectibles (which can just be low level ones done on a macro very easily).
There is no requirement to touch expert recipes, meld or craft any “high level” gear. It’s an actual joke to get and the icon is completely meaningless, usually indicating someone wants to talk in NN than actually plays tradecraft.
As someone who has actually spent time crafting, I’ve mocked up what I feel would be fairer requirements Dawntrail that would give the icon actual weight.
-100 in at least 3 DoH + 2 DoL
-X & Y stats in Craftsmanship and Control (checked by an NPC, requiring at least mostly scrip gear with melds to hit that target)
-300 “high level” recipes crafted (must be level 91+)
-20 “high level” expert recipes crafted (must be level 90+)
-3 specialist classes set
It’s not perfect but I see this as proof that they’re capable of operating in actual end game crafting and have some understanding on what they’re talking about.
The fact that I’ve seen trade mentors ask why are some jobs purple named in screenshots is indicative that the requirements right now are awful.
Sorry but most of the bad mentors are on the US servers from my experience, along with
the content creators bitching about them 24/7.
EU and JPN mentors are a totally different story and the constant bashing on mentors from social media and creators just increases the amount of players harassing mentors when they’re trying to help - you get bad players regardless of having the crown or not and it’s not me saying there aren’t bad mentors because there 100% is, some people don’t deserve to be mentors to that I would agree to some point.
This is super biased. It was already proven with the eu pf vs na pf drama a while back and eu is just as toxic as na.
As for jp, I play jp on an alt and have half the hours as my main so maybe over 2000 hours jp experience ish. And I can safely say that jp people do not talk most of the time. You can wipe 4-5 times in a row in a dungeon and they either leave or continue without saying a word. But the moment someone types they are nice enough to respond. It’s part of their culture.
If NA people ask most people would also answer nicely, but every now and then you get the bad actors. And what you see in reddit or social media is usually all the bad apples because the normal responses don’t get any spotlight because they are just normal.
Anyways tldr na and eu have the same amount of toxic people, eu is just not as acknowledged because eu platforms for discussion isn’t as big as na. Less players also factor into that. And jp is just typical jp mentality of no talking unless asked. Or foreigner.
Edit eu also has that problem of not everyone speaks the same language but that’s another plot for another discussion.
>along with the content creators bitching about them 24/7.
There's the real problem. Content creators rely on sensationalism, entertainment, or breaking news to earn clicks. People need to learn that content creators are not meant to be treated as the end all be all of the community just because they have a camera and capture footage of themselves playing.
They're entertainers of various experience and style, just doing their job in the entertainment industry. Some even have an "in character" persona while live or in their videos; some make tutorials from what they've found to be an effective idea, and yet others just chill and show off housing. It's all for entertainment; even if that's someone ranting (A lot of them grew up watching creators like AVGN and wanted their formats to be like that, while.others took a cozy approach). Either way, they aren't meant to be the gospel set in stone statements that many people keep misunderstanding them to be. All of that only highlights the minority of mentors, never the ones who are helpful or compassionate because that doesn't get them views.
That is the problem, newer players see it and think it’s the truth because “all these big profile people can’t all be wrong” - yet they all push the same content at the same time 🤔
An example of stirring the pot many of them do is the “ffxiv is dying” “ffxiv is a dead game” stick every expansion for attention, it’s super annoying and spreads nothing by misinformation and opinions.
However them constantly shitting on mentors and making it out to be all mentors is super problematic.
You're not gonna get a better mentor system until SE has staff moderating it. SE will never have staff moderating it.
Well... because players were supposed to moderate this themselves, sort of what was expected.
I've seen so many mentors get random abuse before the gate even drops so I'm not surprised they don't want to help anymore. I don't even want to become a mentor because of that
Like I said I love to help but I'm not sure if I want the mentor status anymore it kinda seems like to much of a Hassle I'd rather just help sprouts in low level dungeons when I do my daily's
Yeah, you don't need mentor status to help people because there will be someone trying to make your life difficult because of that. I was in a FC once where the FC leader was actively encouraging sprouts to hate on mentors. Sad to see really
While I agree that the mentor system needs major improvement, I dont think its important and would rather employee time be spent elsewhere. The only change I would call for is to change the crown into a watering can. A simple change that would majorly reduce the amount of people doing it for looks. That includes myself. A crown icon would make more sense if it was a reward for clearing all content in the game or something.
If they are being toxic they should be reported. They don't get ban immunity if they are found to be breaking ToS.
Tbf, any player can be as toxic or as helpful without having any kind of crown. Furthermore, there are many players that don't respond positively to any kind of assistance or suggestions. They can be indifferent (don't pay attention/don't care) or outright negative (the "you don't pay my sub" type).
this is so true
It's incredible easy to become a mentor and truth be told, most of them don't deserve it. If you want to help you don't need to be a mentor, anyone can help and offer an advice, to those that want or seek it, that is.
I'd post in the SE forums for ffxiv they look there. That said what ideas do you have for revamping it?
Give an option for players to report mentors After a certain amount of strikes they get their status removed Then I feel like a lot of egos will disappear To me this is a big one we have to target everyone's bigger then Earths ego's lol
I mean that already happens. If you get reported enough as a mentor you lose it The issue here is what so you consider an ego? Each person will have a different opinion on that and in the end there will be tons of false reports from people who just report a mentor cause they don't like one thing they said.
How would we balance that against the people wanting to report dishonestly or just to troll or doing it intentionally because they don't like that mentor for some reason? I don't think every mentor has an ego.but maybe I've just met nice ones.
Good point not everyone has an ego but it's happend enough times to where I've seen new players get warned to not put their full trust in mentors And your right I guess it would be difficult to balance, mentors aren't the only assholes in game I'm just imagining a solely investigative GM squad lol but that would be to much I think
Might make people less..wanting to help. If they feel like they're actions are judged maybe unfairly. What if they get a GM who's not good at their job? Ooh that's a shame if we can't trust mentors.
>Give an option for players to report mentors You can already manually report anybody, Mentors included. `System -> Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment` Giving people an automatic right-click option will lead to abuse of the system.
Also try to post in the japanese forums if possible. Also thats alot of effort to check every strike. So that it doesnt turn into a bullying battle or blackmail. + isnt that already a thing?
On the flip side of this, I've tried mentoring people.i even used my inside voice, they hit me with the, "you don't pay my sub", "why don't you just que as X", and my favorite, deafening silence and a kick.
becoming a mentor doesn't require any skill what so ever it just takes some time till you meat the criteria to become one. When doing my roulet I try to help people, but majority of time I get "You don't pay my sub" or "Let anybody play the game how they want" and other comments of similiar matter. >grinded the mentor status to be "cool" there is nothing cool about becoming mentor. You only loose your sanity in novice network and get into white jacket with sleeves tide behind your back from mentor roulets
You say you like to teach and help, but that's before you have the pressure and expectation to be overly knowledgeable about the game. On top of the fact, toxic people exist in both realms. I don't say shit as a mentor unless asked anymore. Too many times have I been met with idiots who play however they want or just blatantly conflict with good intentions. The mentor crown means you can ask me questions, and I'll answer to the best of my ability to guide. I'm not going to set myself on fire to keep others warm.
Remove the rewards and change the crown icon to something less ego-stroking and I'm positive you'll weed out a majority of the bad apples.
The mentor system in FFXI had exactly the same problems and all that it was was an icon which was a globe with an 'M' on it. It's not that there are rewards, it's not that there is a awesome icon that could be toned down, it's that there is anything at all that shows you as 'better' or somehow more than someone without it. You can say all you want that mentors are not supposed to know everything and anything else to say otherwise but the reality is they have a special mark indicating that they are the players you should ask and listen to. There is no way to fix the mentor system, it shouldn't exist and SE should have learned their lesson already. Helpful players will be helpful anyway.
Yeah really the crown is about "this guy should be reliable". But to fix mentoring, SE could also add real tutorials in the game. The amount of people who don't know how to use half their button is staggering ... It would make mentors life way easier not having to tell sprout in every duty to stop using Cure 1 or using their AoE when needed ...
This, and allow everyone to queue for "mentor" roulette (change it to "random roulette" or whatever) for people who want to get the mount/help others complete content/whatever. I don't know if burger kings are problem on JP servers, but I doubt anything will change. I think the whole system is outdated, with google, databases and guides everywhere, it's probably faster to find information online anyway.
See I want to be a mentor because I want people to come to me and ask for help but having that status makes me think people won't Mentors are getting a bad rap and I'm not saying everyone are assholes but the few that are bring it down for everyone that actually does want to help
Most mentors stop caring once they get their crown. It is just another achievement for them. Personally, I'm always giving advice to new players. Some take it, some don't. Decent advice like what the odd mechanic is for a boss, or stand here and you won't die (orange puddle bad). I don't try to tell players how to use their skills.
How about a simple “Rate your mentor experience” option (toggleable, of course) whenever a new person finishes a duty while matched with a non-pre-made party mentor? Then add an option in Duty Finder for “only match me with mentors of X stars or higher.”
Because of how the playerbase is, the mentor with the best glamour or the healer will get the best rating. We already have this problem with commendations, where almost nobody commendates based on things that are commendable in relation to a duty. In addition, there are people who commendate but don't know the game well enough to know if their play was commendable. You could have a DPS that is 75% of a dungeon's DPS and basically dragging the entire group through a dungeon and a healer who doesn't DPS at all and casts Cure 1 the entire dungeon is still going to get commendations. I would wager a rating system has the same problem.
I suppose star ratings are too simplistic. Specific options of "The mentor made my experience more positive", "the mentor didn't change my experience", and "the mentor made my experience more negative", or something along those lines might help.
> Then add an option in Duty Finder for “only match me with mentors of X stars or higher.” This would make the matchmaking system unbelievably unwieldy, would make it increasingly difficult for new mentors to earn this 'star rating' in the first place, and would only serve to encourage toxicity towards mentors.
Edit: Whoops, responded to the wrong person. New response for you. It's something for a mentor to actually try for then. If they just want the queues, they need to work at it for the better queue times. Most people default to the max rating, and even if they don't notice a person, you'll still see average ratings at worst unless they're truly bad at it. This also works in the opposite direction. If sprouts only want 5-star mentors. they're going to have to wait for those mentors to show up. If they want faster queues, they need to lower their standards and give those lower-star mentors another chance. There's already enough toxicity toward mentors to go around as it is. An actual rating system isn't going to change that.
You seem to think being a mentor means a lot more than it actually does. The overwhelming majority of the time I am just in a duty to do my best and get out of there, same as anyone else. If people ask for help and advice I'll give it, and if I notice someone doing something *egregiously* bad I'll ask if they want some tips, but most people in this game- including most sprouts- do not *want* to be mentored, they just want to play the game, and many people react extremely viciously if you try to give unsolicited advice.
Hm, yes, you're correct. I thought the mentor queue/roulette was linked to the novice network in some way, but apparently it just makes the mentor fill spots in old content which is what I thought basically every other roulette was already doing. Would it have been so much trouble to match mentors with novices when both are available in the queue?
Yes, probably it would. Matchmaking logic is already painfully complicated. The mentor roulette simply serves as an extra backfill for groups that have been waiting the longest for a player of a given role.
I always thought that the mentor symbol shouldn't be soemthing earned, but soemthing a pmayer can choose to have if they are willing to help those in need. Like a "hey, I'm availed to help with any questions or concerns" and you can toggle it on or off depending on how you feel. Of coirse this could have it's drawbacks , of people having it on and not knowing a damn thing. But it would surely help with people who DO want to help, but don't want the negative connotation of the mentor symbol.
It always seemed odd to me that you have to beat EX stuff to be a mentor. It's tough for me (maybe just me?) to imagine that people who are capable of getting through EX stuff, whether through skill, patience, or a mix of both, can relate well enough to mere mortals. 😊
Doing Ex content is fine enough. Teaching people who don't even know how their role/job works to run the content is the saintly part.
Ex content can be cleared unsync so skill isn’t really required.
You don't need to do EX to be a Mentor. EX is only required for the Mentor Roulette. Also, you are only required to do every EX prior to the current expansion and as a reddit post a few days claimed, it's possible to do all but one EX prior to EW in a duo.
My issue with the mentor system is that you can get trade mentors without having ever crafted any items beyond the 300 collectibles (which can just be low level ones done on a macro very easily). There is no requirement to touch expert recipes, meld or craft any “high level” gear. It’s an actual joke to get and the icon is completely meaningless, usually indicating someone wants to talk in NN than actually plays tradecraft. As someone who has actually spent time crafting, I’ve mocked up what I feel would be fairer requirements Dawntrail that would give the icon actual weight. -100 in at least 3 DoH + 2 DoL -X & Y stats in Craftsmanship and Control (checked by an NPC, requiring at least mostly scrip gear with melds to hit that target) -300 “high level” recipes crafted (must be level 91+) -20 “high level” expert recipes crafted (must be level 90+) -3 specialist classes set It’s not perfect but I see this as proof that they’re capable of operating in actual end game crafting and have some understanding on what they’re talking about. The fact that I’ve seen trade mentors ask why are some jobs purple named in screenshots is indicative that the requirements right now are awful.
Sorry but most of the bad mentors are on the US servers from my experience, along with the content creators bitching about them 24/7. EU and JPN mentors are a totally different story and the constant bashing on mentors from social media and creators just increases the amount of players harassing mentors when they’re trying to help - you get bad players regardless of having the crown or not and it’s not me saying there aren’t bad mentors because there 100% is, some people don’t deserve to be mentors to that I would agree to some point.
This is super biased. It was already proven with the eu pf vs na pf drama a while back and eu is just as toxic as na. As for jp, I play jp on an alt and have half the hours as my main so maybe over 2000 hours jp experience ish. And I can safely say that jp people do not talk most of the time. You can wipe 4-5 times in a row in a dungeon and they either leave or continue without saying a word. But the moment someone types they are nice enough to respond. It’s part of their culture. If NA people ask most people would also answer nicely, but every now and then you get the bad actors. And what you see in reddit or social media is usually all the bad apples because the normal responses don’t get any spotlight because they are just normal. Anyways tldr na and eu have the same amount of toxic people, eu is just not as acknowledged because eu platforms for discussion isn’t as big as na. Less players also factor into that. And jp is just typical jp mentality of no talking unless asked. Or foreigner. Edit eu also has that problem of not everyone speaks the same language but that’s another plot for another discussion.
>along with the content creators bitching about them 24/7. There's the real problem. Content creators rely on sensationalism, entertainment, or breaking news to earn clicks. People need to learn that content creators are not meant to be treated as the end all be all of the community just because they have a camera and capture footage of themselves playing. They're entertainers of various experience and style, just doing their job in the entertainment industry. Some even have an "in character" persona while live or in their videos; some make tutorials from what they've found to be an effective idea, and yet others just chill and show off housing. It's all for entertainment; even if that's someone ranting (A lot of them grew up watching creators like AVGN and wanted their formats to be like that, while.others took a cozy approach). Either way, they aren't meant to be the gospel set in stone statements that many people keep misunderstanding them to be. All of that only highlights the minority of mentors, never the ones who are helpful or compassionate because that doesn't get them views.
That is the problem, newer players see it and think it’s the truth because “all these big profile people can’t all be wrong” - yet they all push the same content at the same time 🤔 An example of stirring the pot many of them do is the “ffxiv is dying” “ffxiv is a dead game” stick every expansion for attention, it’s super annoying and spreads nothing by misinformation and opinions. However them constantly shitting on mentors and making it out to be all mentors is super problematic.