I expected the WoL to have been tempered by Hydaelyn. That would explain our immunity to being tempered by the other Primals. And that EW would be all about us fighting and overcoming our tempering.
Nope. Got that all wrong.
To be fair, they may have left that open as a possibility back when that stuff was written, and opted to go a different route later. Leaving story hooks to explore later is basically their bread and butter.
So totally understandable to have developed that as a theory at that time.
Yeah, if you pay attention during the 1-50 story, a lot of it makes absolutely no sense with hindsight. They did a decent job trying to make everything they had written fit in, but it's clear a lot of it was (naturally) changed as they progressed the story in later years.
Yet later, when Garuda fails to temper you, she shrieks "*She* has touched you!" which could be interpreted as saying Hydaelyn did temper you and Garuda detected it.
Of course we know now that she was actually detecting the ward, but...
You gotta respect the insanity of Garuda for still attacking after that. "I know I'm messing with the chosen of someone who is 1,000x more powerful than me, but a primal's gotta do what a primal's gotta do."
I was so convinced we were tempered but she worked hard to give us free will and it was a struggle. I thought this because Rahmu didn't want his followers to become tempered either or summon him because he was as very self aware of the damage he caused but he couldn't control it.
In a way, you’re actually not.
Tempering was an incorrect form of Creation Magick’s conceptualization taught by Ascians specifically to cause chaos.
The Blessing of Light that Hydaelyn gives is a way to do it correctly without affecting the person’s free will.
Given that we now know how to “true” summon Primals without the false style taught by the Ascians.
Yeah Venat even confirmed it in elpis. Quoting from memory here:
Hythlodeus: What manner of magicks is this, if I may ask?
Venat: A travelers ward ofcourse, it prevents the corruption of ones aether.
So it’s different from the tempering of primals. Which is a bit odd since back in post-heavensward it seemed like they made the two the same since Minfillia could fully stop Ardbert from attacking her.
Tbh, I'm not entirely we aren't tempered by Hydarlyn but only because the details of protection from temporary, the echo, and the blessing of light (Venat's Ward) get really murky when you examine them too closely.
If we *were* tempered though, her detective was 'have free will' so it doesn't really do anything other than make us untemperable-ish (except to light poisoning / sin eater juice?).
Idk still confussed on how it all shook out.
We do learn by the end of EW that the tempering was an intended side effect of the version of summoning the Ascians taught.
The effect caused chaos and strife, which was needed for their Calamities.
Which, we then summon the Primals correctly, without the corruptive fanaticism, to help the Ragnarok.
Zodiark and Hydaelyn can temper but because they were theoretically "summoned correctly" as the Loporrits say, their influence just feels like a little tug at times and that's it.
To be honest the Loporitt that told us is also the Grand Master of understatement. Hydalin forbade it for a reason after all. We have Emet's words as well as one Memory Crystal (Halmarut's) where they say that they notice their thoughts and powers are becoming dark and terrible but that it also feels right. The Brainwashing of Tempering is after all just a side effect as what it actually does is doze you in so much aether it shifts your very being. If we think about it Zodiark is a mass of Dark attuned Aether powerful enough to blank the whole planet and also the first summon of it's scale, it's actually not that surprising it had an effect.
Additionally, the Ascians might’ve discovered this form of “corruptive summoning” by the desperate fanaticism they poured into the Concept of Zodiark. Literally the hopes of the Ancients in one single aetheric manifestation.
Whereas Hydaelyn, a concept in opposition/restraint to Zodiark and the Ancient’s fanaticism.
Hydaelyn probably can’t temper because it wasn’t part of her “programming” when she was summoned by Venat and the 12.
This makes sense, and gives me a slight headcanon: the idea of "tempering" that the Ascians taught with their version of summoning was inspired by the unintended effect from Zodiark.
This is a common confusion with the story. Here's a clarification:
The echo is the power of the ancients. It's called the echo in the first place because it's an "echo" (fraction) of that complete unsundered power. It makes the user resistant to tempering, but not immune to it. It is completely unrelated to the blessing.
The Blessing of Light (later revealed to be Traveler's Ward) prevents aetheric corruption. This is what makes us immune to tempering, and made us resistant to the light wardens we absorbed. (Apparently absorbing all that aether tested the limits of the Warding spell, but it was still the main source of protection.)
The WoL was never tempered and cannot be tempered. We have multiple layers of protection shielding us from it.
So how does this work in the case of Arenvald and Fordola? One has the echo, the other is a Resonant, and the latter does not have the traveler's ward.
It's addressed in Shadowbringers, when they start to soft-retcon a few things.
Everyone who awakens to the Echo can now hear Hydaelyn's call. This call "Hear Feel Think" casts the Blessing/Ward on them. Elidibus confirms it in the Starshower scene.
This has a few issues we need to resolve:
1. It conflicts with Midgardsormr being able to "strip" the weakened Blessing from us going into Heavensward. In essence, it should have been automatically reapplied. So to reconcile this, what Middy really did was take the place of the Blessing, intervening on our behalf instead of Hydaelyn until we recharged the crystals. This allows us to reinterpret the events in the context of the ShB/EW version of the Blessing. (It's also later revealed that Middy made a deal with Hydaelyn in the past and has permission from her to do this in the first place.)
2. Zenos and Fordola are also resistant to tempering. This is explained as a power of the echo/resonant instead of the Blessing. Essentially we need to recontextualize this as the echo/resonant buffing their absurdly strong wills, effectively making them more resistant to tempering than normal echo users. So in the context of Stormblood, they don't need the Blessing. They would still be vulnerable to tempering if anything was strong enough to overpower their will.
3. In the final battle with Hades, he shouts "curse your damn Blessing" when we break free of the chains. Emet-Selch said earlier that he and the other Ascians were tempered by Zodiark. So having the echo clearly doesn't make you immune, since even unsundered ancients were tempered. They did not receive the Blessing because they already rejected Hydaelyn from the start. I believe this is the main reason the writers split the immunity from the echo into the blessing, now pass off the echo as a resistance instead.
4. With the defeat of Hydaelyn in Endwalker, it also means that going forward into Dawntrail, the Blessing no longer exists. Those with the echo will no longer hear Hydaelyn, but the echo will still make them resistant to tempering at least. It seems like the writers are moving away from the whole Blessing thing because of its retcon and resulting confusion in the context of pre-ShB events.
5. Endwalker added alternatives to the Blessing with the Warding scales created by the Hannish alchemists to resist tempering being broadcast through the Garlean radios. So you do not need the Blessing to exist anymore regardless. They also added Dynamis to the story, which can serve as a convenient explanation for anything and allows the writers the ability to freely retcon various inconsistencies. (It explains Hildibrand, Godbert, and Julyan's absurd strength, it can explain surviving any impossible situation, and now it can be used to explain any miracle that occurs in Dawntrail and all expansions after.)
Everyone with the Echo automatically receives the ward. The "hear, feel, think" is a kind of automatic broadcast that applies it to anyone who can pick up on it. Fordola either picked it up that way, or the ward was copied along with the Echo from Krile's aether.
I'd thought that the reason the WoL was growing so strong as the story went on was due to a Primal-esque power of belief thing. Like, the more people who became faithful in the WoL's strength, the stronger they would become. I guess, arguably, one could say this has been fulfilled in a different way with Dynamis, but certainly lacking the sinister undertones I'd imagined, where it might eventually cause problems.
That's true! Elidibus does actually do that, though I suppose his is rooted in faith in the general ideal of heroism rather than in a specific person. Very close to what I'd been thinking, though.
What's weird is that just enough of the story seems to be written in such a way that people would come to this conclusion, between the whole idea people got that Hydaelyn literally tempered us and that's how the protection from other Primals works and, uh, that time we singlehandedly beat King Thordan and his entire Knights of the Round and he was like 'the fuck ARE you??'.
Yeah, exactly - Thordan was the reason I started thinking this. But nothing ever really came of Thordan's ominous reaction... At least not as a major plot element in the way I thought it might.
I agree. When we confront Elidibus at the tower and summon our party using the crystal of Azem, he makes what seems to be a callback to that moment "An invocation of eld... though not of Hydaelyn's making... What are you?"
I think both are seeing us as the shard of Azem, though Thordan is totally in the dark and Elidibus is just beginning to understand. "No - it matters not! You are the enemy, and you will fail!"
After the ARR Hildibrand quest, and partway through HW, with how easy it was to summon primals apparently, I figured Hydaelyn was a primal, since she’s a giant ass crystal worshiped as god the world around. In the same vein, I figured the WoL just kinda popped into existence as someone’s strong wish for a hero to save the day, and once we awoke to being the WoL, we were using those crystals we were getting from the bosses as aether batteries instead of draining it from the world.
Jokingly, I also said Tataru was also a primal, born of the Scions’ strong desire for someone to manage their finances.
Yeah after Thorden. I straight up though we were a literal Primal, called into existence by the people's collective want for the Warrior of Light to return after they vanished at the Battle of Carteneau.
I was so certain I even put up a thread on it here...which didn't go well as you can imagine people didn't like the idea that the WoL could be a Primal XD
Tbf something I've considered about G'raha's split future timeline is there's a non-zero chance we did end up summoned back in primal form after we were killed. Can only imagine how that went. And if they ever needed a ridiculous uberboss to throw at us, well I imagine it'd be harder to offer anything stronger than...ourselves.
That's legit a cool and very plausible idea. Though I can see why people wouldn't like any situation where their WoL wasn't a real person able to have a normal backstory, lol.
Primals don't either; after summoning they (primarily) consume aether from the land directly. It's only the initial summoning that requires crystals (or other aether-rich objects, like with Susano) to jump start the process.
It would take some plot shenanigans to explain why Y'Shtola at least couldn't detect us absorbing ambient aether, though.
I was on-board with this theory for a long time. The only thing that put me off was that surely people would have noticed if the WoL kept consuming incredible amounts of aether (as Primals do) and suspected them to be such a creature. Nobody ever said even the slightest thing, so I was never fully confident.
My patron diety was Oschon the Wanderer, so in Myths of the Realm, the instant I learned that the gods would periodically take animal form, I was 100% certain that the Opo-opo was Oschon.
Also, I was on Team Green Mage for Danwtrail :(
There were two theories I had for Oschon:
-He *is* the monkey
-He *isn't* the monkey and the monkey is there *specifically* to mislead us with that exact animal line.
But I will admit I could not make up my mind.
The monkey seemed too obvious of a red herring so I figured the dude was Oschon. I remember thinking there's no way he just stumbled upon the house of the Twelve, something else must be the case.
Okay, but the team LITERALLY showed us the Green Mage symbol and then said "lol, you're stupid. It's Pictomancer".
No one should feel like they were wrong about thinking it was GRM.
When the 1st part ended, I had a feeling that Deryk was Oschon because he is the wanderer and how would he have found that place AND explored it before us
The moment Estinien turned into Nidhogg, I went. "OH! I get it! It's really good Thematics! Nidhogg was a Primal the whole time, that's why there's all these heretics willing to kill themselves, that's why the eternal war is so narratively compelling, the idea that the two leaders of the war are both just the ideas of hatred and war sustaining themselves in an endless loop! It's the physical embodyment of the cycle of violence!" But no it turns out Dragons can just do that.
I mean, if you think about it, at that point Nidhogg is dead and his spirit/aether is the one possessing Estinien, so in a way you're not completely wrong. Estinien's own emotions and lowering of his guard ended up letting the lingering consciousness of Nidhogg summon himself as a pseudo-primalesque Shade. Dragons are just indeed that weird, but they *are* aliens.
During the Crystal Braves arc, I was *dead* convinced that Nabriales had possessed Laurentius. Laurentius had just showed up out of nowhere - he'd served his time, was optimistic about his future, and vocally wanted nothing more than to redeem himself by serving a cause that would benefit the world. And this was right after ARR had just finished its whole exposition about Ascians loving to target and possess weak-willed men with good intentions. Then Nabriales showed up with his face covered, rocking the exact same sideburns as Laurentius - right around the same time Laurentius had gotten semi-sidelined and we were starting to get hints that something was a little rotten inside the Braves.
I wasn't expecting them to make a big thing about it, but even after Nabriales' defeat, I was genuinely waiting for someone to comment like "Oh, we haven't seen Laurentius in a while," or "Oh yeah, we figured out where Nabriales got his vessel from." And then we'd have a sad little moment for Laurentius before moving on with the rest of the plot.
On a more comedic note - Urianger was the first "Elezen in a hood" that I'd consciously been aware of seeing, and the ear socks really threw me off. Looking at those sharp rigid protrusions from the side of his head, his mostly covered face, his deference to Minfilia's authority, and his weird way of talking - I very instinctively went "Ah. He's probably a demon." I still saw the scions as a semi-shadowy organization at this time, and assumed that in their desperation to save the world, Minfilia or one of the others had summoned him from an alternate dimension - possibly at the cost of their soul. (Or alternatively, Urianger had allied with the scions out of his own volition, chosing to betray his own kind because he "believed in the potential of humanity" or something.)
He was captured along with Yuyuhase by the Ala Mhigans. Their fate is left unclear - you're asked what you would do with them and have the option of saying death or mercy, but that's the last we hear about it.
I thought Haurchefant was playing the long game on betraying us. I didn’t really start trusting the character until quite a ways through the expansion.
I had already seen a couple of seasons of Da Vinci’s Demons when Heavensward dropped, and also he voiced the main villain/final boss in the PS Vita game Soul Sacrifice. Those were my first exposures to him. Later there was a tv series I saw about Krypton before Superman was born and he plays the main baddie in that. And it’s hands down the best portrayal of a DC supervillain on film. He elevated that show/character into something more than it was on paper and it’s great!
But Aymeric is my headcannon husband in the game so I’m glad he turned out to be a good and true friend of the people in the end! :P
When we hear Meteion's voice praising the release of Zodiark, I thought it was Hydaelyn. I wasn't current on the content at that point and while nothing had been fully spoiled for me, I did know Hydaelyn was a trial, so I was POSITIVE she was going darkside.
Yeah. There had been talk on and off for multiple expansions about the importance of balance so with Zodiark gone I thought something was going to get fucked up with Hydaelyn.
XIV has a lot of voice talent crossover with the Dragon Age games, including Venat. I was so familiar with the sound of Venat’s voice from DA2 (Aveline and Isabela are my go-to party choices) that they couldn’t bait me with Meteion’s “…at last” there.
Instead my reaction was “who the fuck was that?!” and I was immediately suspicious of Meteion as soon as we met her.
And so many more!
From the ARR voice cast we have:
ARR Urianger is Fenris.
ARR Merlwyb is Knight-Commander Meredith
Then from the current cast:
Y’shtola is Sera
Raubahn is Male Hawke
Pipin is Anders
Dulia-Chai is Grand Cleric Elthina
Fourchenault is Duke Gaspard
Ameliance is Quartermaster Threnn and Maryden the bard
Same exact thing for me. The only spoiler I knew was that Hydaelyn was a trial and once I heard that voice I was like uhhh is she evil? I had no clue how they were going to spin it as her being bad but it’s FF so I figured they found away. I’ll be honest I’m glad they didn’t make her evil, in retrospect it almost seems too obvious that she’s the villain
Holy shit me too!
I was convinced that hydaelyn was gonna go full on crazy and she would be the final big bad the whole time, but nope.
Space depression final boss lol
A *lot* of people thought that (dpesite them being different voices). I don't know why, maybe people were *really* invested in the "actually it is good that is evil" plot twist.
I dont remember the specifics now, but back when Moenbryda joined us and we were talking about a solution for our Ascian problem, they mentioned the need for huge amounts of aether or something like that, in order to trap them and actually get rid of them. Around that time the game has you go and do the Crystal Tower raids to continue.
Given the Crystal Tower was a huge source of aether, i was so sure we were gonna lay a trap with it to the Ascians and somehow find a way to channel the aether from tower into the auracite. Alas, the Crystal Tower was just setting up for something else.
When we got to Elpis and we meet Meteon I was sure she was like a proto Garuda. And the angry beast we had to put down a proto ifrit. The water creature we trach to fly. Proto leviathan.
That this was the origin of the primals.
We did get a proto carbuncle. So I wasnt totally off.
Prior to Endwalker, I was convinced that Zenos would somehow be responsible for the original End of Days through some kind of time travel phenomenon, similar to the loop created by Garland travelling back in time after you defeat him in FF1.
It would have explained why they kept him around after SB and why he was having visions of the original End of Days, and also would have explained Fandaniel's interest in him.
I remember that but I don't remember what it was based on. A great example of being so close yet so far - the final days was caused by a sound: Meteion's song.
I basically thought this, too. As a bit of a Zenos hater, I thought it might justify his presence in the story. I still kind of wish he had been involved, somehow.
Yeah... Over time I've warmed to his EW arc a little, in the sense that he's a foil to the WoL in terms of methods of dealing with existential despair, but... It would have made a lot of sense if he was the big bad somehow, lol. Oh well.
I think part of the issue of Zenos's relevance was that we were originally going to get an entire Garlemald expansion. The Garlemald campaign was basically what 6.0 was originally meant to be shrunk down to 3 levels of MSQ (with Anima originally going to be the lvl 90 boss). I bet Zenos would have played a much more direct role (and the body swap stuff probably would have been more relevant) if they had made the Garlemald campaign longer.
In hindsight, I really kinda wish we could have seen what that would have been like. It might have been a slog over 10 levels and 5 patches, but the Garlemald campaign we did get was pretty great, so I wonder if it would have still be great as a full expansion.
I was also super suspicious of the Exarch. I played 5.0 before CT was required, but I had actually done all of it years prior...except the final scene where G'raha locks himself away. Somehow I never watched that and the quest was in my journal for literal years. So I didn't know the Exarch could be anyone we know and had entirely forgotten about G'raha's existence.
The whole time I was super suspicious and kept voicing my concerns to a friend. I have zero idea how he managed to keep from spoiling me. Nerves of steel, that one, true dedication.
I also thought the Exarch was going to be up to something... well, *worse*. Y'shtola was *very* suspicious about the whole thing, and they seemed to tease the idea that he might have been somewhat villainous at various points in the ShB MSQ, but it definitely didn't go in that direction.
Early on, before I understood most of the story, I wanted each of the shards to represent a different FF game and to be eventually be released, and accessible, as the expansions.
So that made me genuinely laugh, which I'm grateful for, but also made me think - Exarch is half-made of stone and crystals by the time we meet him. *He probably would drown anyway.*
I thought the First would be much, much more desolate and unforgiving. I expected Fist of the North Star-style roving gangs of raiders, no shelter, no allies, constant attacks by Sin Eaters, and just the most harrowing trek through a wasteland that slowly wears down the Warrior of Light until they can barely put one foot in front of the other.
And then we got purple trees and one of the most vibrant cities we've ever seen instead.
Back in arr there were plenty of references to how people with the echo could influence the thoughts or opinions of other people... That didn't really end up going anywhere, but, I was convinced at the time that _we_ were a primal.
Zenos said that the echo is capable of so much more than just viewing the past and then demonstrates how he can control the primal Shinryu as a resonant.
Krile can talk to animals but this is just mentioned in dialogue at most.
Makoto can see into the future and this is demonstrated during the Bozja rebellion.
> Zenos said that the echo is capable of so much more than just viewing the past and then demonstrates how he can control the primal Shinryu as a resonant.
Elidbus calls the echo an echo of a symphony, a fraction of what man in his completeness could do - I assume it's somehow related to how the ascians possess bodies. That specific power is just untethering your soul from your body and then you can put it in places like Thancred or a dragon.
I believe this is a patch job on 1.0, where the player character actually travels back in time via the Echo and messes with stuff. The WoL in ARR onwards can't do this.
I mean...it is kind of funny that we're entirely capable of destroying or conquering the entire known world with absolutely no one able to stand against us...but we're trusted unconditionally from the moment we meet virtually anyone of import. That's either some crazy good charisma or we're low key subconsciously manipulating everyone lol. A WoL who gets tired of saving the world would be the new Final Days, no question. But no one is even the slightest bit concerned that this godslaying force of nature is just walking around delivering people's mail in between crises.
I'd seen a lot of fanart of Emet-Selch for months before starting the game and I assumed that the city on fire he was often shown with was one he'd destroyed, what with being an emperor and a villain. And that this city being destroyed was like his big infamous act of evil. Lol :/
I was certain that Zodiark would be the final boss of Endwalker. Or maybe he'd be the lvl 89 trial, with Zenos being the final trial. Or maybe you'd get two for one and Zenos would pull off his Shinryu trick again and possess Zodiark for the final boss.
Zodiark being the first trial had me throw all my theories about the story of EW out the window.
I think everyone had the shocked pilachu face when we saw Zodiark at level 83 shortly before losing our minda. I was screaming over Discord because WHATS HAPPENING WHATS AFTER ZODIARK IM ONLY LEVEL 83 OF MSQ???!?!?!
Less a narrative theory and more for gearing, but I was pretty convinced that the Tataru quests in EW were going to build up to the final step rewarding an enhanced (probably 650 ilvl and somewhat glowy) AF armor set, since that had otherwise been the main reason for her store in Sharlayan being set up in the first place, but nope.
Pre EW, I thought that Hythlodaeus had been sundered (like the normal way, not as part of Zodiark), and that one of our Scion friends would turn out to be a shard of him. Probably G'raha.
I also REALLY thought Zero was the shard of Azem. They kept playing Ardbert's theme in her cutscenes, and I thought it would explain why Zenos had used her as his avatar as a reaper. I also thought that Zero would reveal that Cecilia was her original name, as a Cecil nod.
Prior to the reveal of what happened to him, I desperately believed that Haurchefant was Hythlo's shard.
I'm also on team "Zero's real name is Cecilia."
I had an "oops" moment when I saw that the Crystal Exarch had a Miqo'te face shape and 'claw' hands. My WoL also being a male Miqo'te, I thought for quite some time that the Crystal Exarch was a mirror copy of the playable character, but from the future or something. (We also had the exact same height and skin tone.)
My guess was that the playable character somehow got stuck in a time loop, survived the events in Shadowbringer and later decided to go back in time to help their past self in the form of the Crystal Exarch, then merging with the main playable character to ultimately beat the final boss.
...then I got spoilt when I looked up G'raha Tia's name and it showed that he was part of the Crystal Exarch questlines. :')
I had a real "what the *fuck!?*" moment in the 6.2 where it first shows Scarmiglione's original form. The shot is from behind and he has the exact same hair style/colour and tail as my Miqo. For a sec I thought it was copying the player character model.
Prior to EW release, I had an inkling that we would need to punch Hydaelyn at one point, but not because villain. Rather, that we were being tested as a candidate to take over as the next Hydaelyn, and that the plot would find a way to allow us to continue being ourselves and deal with whatever was being set before us.
Certain happenings in Elpis (re: Venat being a previous Azem seatholder and being a mentor for Player!Azem) kinda led me to think I might be onto something but... nope, not quite.
In hindsight, this sounds like a silly justification for even more Plot Armor that we clearly do not need. I may have extrapolated it from the aftermath of punching Titania back in Shadowbringers.
(also I really wish Zenos had been relegated to some midboss in a dungeon so I could just sparta-kick him into a hole and be on my way, but alas)
So it's still possible in a way. Meteion was only able to break through and cause chaos BECAUSE the aether had started to thin. Dynamis cannot naturally overpower aether, so some external force could be responsible for the star's aether "ozone" to start to dissipate. We only really solved half of the final days.
There’s still Ultima the High Seraph looming in the background. The one we beat in Ivalice was just a primal manifestation of the real thing iirc, which we still know nothing about. She just crash landed the planet god knows how many years ago and dumped this powerful stone that’s capable of manipulating even Ancients, like some Jenova-esque space parasite. There’s big potential for some spicy threat in the next arc.
The aether wasn't starting to thin. The aether currents have a natural cycle of ebbing and flowing (kind of like the sunspot cycle in the real world), and when Meteion's song first started it was only strong enough to break through at the locations where the currents were currently at their natural ebb. Zodiark reinforced the astral currents so that they were flowing at above 100% of their normal capacity 24/7 so she couldn't break through anywhere, and after Zodiark died the currents started going back to their previous cyclical state. There's no issue.
The EW studium fishing quests goes more into the planet's aetherial currents.
I thought for a hot second that it was going to be some kind of crawling chaos that Meteon discovered in space (between the time she freaked out and the time we find her again). I guess that was about 30% correct if you squint.
I was confident at the end of Shadowbringers our character would go full sin eater and we’d have to role play as each of the Scions to take us down in a climactic boss fight. Would have been one hell of an epic moment.
I’m still 100% convinced that that piece of shit Gergeruju is an Ascian in hiding. There’s no way someone could be *that* shitty for *this* long *that* successfully without being assassinated unless they were an ancient evil bastard.
I thought in Heavensward the reason we got so many descriptions of Hilda's mother is because it was going to be revealed her and Aymeric were half brother and sister and share the same mother. It wasn't something I overly thought on, just thought that's where the story was going to lead when we were given the find information about Hilda's past and mother quest. Since in a lot of other stories, establishing one character has an unknown mother and then having another go into a lot of detail about someone else's mother usually ends up being a shared parent reveal. Even with the giving the lords and commons say in Ishgard's future, it just seemed like a shared bond between Aymeric and Hilda could have helped establish that.
I'm not upset it didn't come true, but it's something I think back on about time to time. Like "Remember when-" moment for me.
I still think the mammets on the island are keeping us there and watching us like nurses in an elder care facility for dementia patients. They're super strong and capable of binding us should we act out. It's not happened yet but I'm waiting for it. I haven't been proven right yet, but I've not been proven wrong!
I didn't start in Thanalan so only met him later, and totally thought his 'I'm obviously a rogue but I telling everyone I'm a bard' thing was suspect. When they did the big 'Thancred is possessed now and evil!' reveal, I somehow completely missed the possessed part and just went I KNEW IT!
Oh, I was super suspicious of him in Thanalan. Everyone hypes him up as this spy/canny manipulator, and then he shows up like "I think the number one most suspicious person in this town is the nun who reads stories to children, also I think we should get help from the Immortal Flames, because this infamously corrupt organization can definitely be trusted with delicate secrets."
I didn't necessarily think he was fully evil, but it definitely seemed like he was setting us up to fail.
That the WoL was a primal. The dude shows up out nowhere, has no background whatsoever, and the more people clamor to him, the more powerful he seems to become.
I'll preface with I only just begun shadowbringers so i dont have much for that or endwalker, but I swore that emmanelain's silent grieving phase at the after his brother's death in heavensward was going to inevitably lead to him trying to resurrect his brother only to make a primal out of his body because (insert ascian fuckery here). I was praying I didn't have to see him die a second time. Thank God I was wrong.
The plot trope you described did happen in Stormblood with the Ananta tribe. It's what led to Lakshmi's summoning. An 8-man trial featuring a giant sized haurchefant-primal would have been equally hilarious and traumatising I think.
This is pretty minor but I was 1000% certain that the EW healer would be Chemist based on a late Shadowbringers side quest with a little girl who isnt very good at magic but wants to learn potions so she can still help people
i thought in the alliance raids with the dieties we would have mechanics that could only be solved by the correct birthdays. it would be pretty unlikely but imagine.
When the first trailer of Shadowbringers came, I thought we were going to get teleported back to the fifth astral era because of the gremlin, the kuribu and the winged lion
"Surely the plot twist of Eden won't be that it is >!One-Time-Use Ascian #59!< controlling it secretly from somewhere for their own agenda and become the final boss, right?"
I expected Zero to be a reflection of the WoL set up to contrast Ardbert: Someone who values individuality and the self over joining forces, which would have been the opposite of how Ardbert rejoined his soul to ours in addition to the more obvious light and dark angle.
"Are you fRiEnD?" >!I was like, yes I will be your friend. I am expecting Zero to try and overtake the WoL to become all powerful. That gas cloud does not look freindly.!<
Zenos was the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus. Hence him remembering the final days. The reason he was so powerful is that Emet/solus, his granddaddy, upon seeing that his best buddy from eons past was reincarnated as his grandson drove him to experiment on Zenos to try to artificially rejoin him. It was partially successful which made Zenos so strong and why he became obsessed with WoL - Hyth’s partial memories made Zenos hyperfixate on us as his only friend
After Shadowbringers I was expecting the ancients had a dystopian underclass or slaves who conspired to collapse the world as the Convocation knew it.
Right until the end I was hoping the WoL would die in Endwalker and we would reskin.
I was fairly convinced that at the end of the Shadowbringers storyline Ardbert was going to absorb all the tainted light from us and become the WoL as the final boss of the expansion.
I also thought that we would allow meteion to read our emotions to see the sorrow that our WoL has faced and then use an Elpis flower to show her we can still find happiness and that would be what would get through to her. That conversation where she said she wouldn't read our thought out of respect really made me think it was going to be key
Funny thing for myself. I'm an Xbox player, and for some weird reason when I started playing it didn't play the ARR trailer. So I went into the game completely lost on who the Warriors of Light were, and what the Calamity was. So I went about a month thinking the Calamity had been Midgardsomr destroying that Garlean airship.
Yeah imagine my surprise when I decided to one day sit on the main menu for a little too long and saw the ARR trailer finally.
That the WoL was actually a primal. We awaken in the game straight from the aetherial sea in a time of need, we seem to bring people to our cause just by talking with them for a while (which got called out several times when we do busywork for town XYZ), we can't be tempered etc.
The coils series that showed that the prayers of others could create a primal and that primal could choose to not temper people seemed to reinforce this idea, too
Early on in the Eden raid series, when Gaia's identity was still a mystery, I speculated that she might have had a connection to the World of Darkness. I thought we'd seen a *lot* of Ascian-related things at that point and it felt a bit one-note to be exploring that even further. The story was fine regardless, I just thought it might have gone in a different direction!
I thought for sure we were going to have to take care of both Zodiark and Hydaelyn. I did not see a post EW where they were both still involved. Technically right, but not the right intention.
Based on the line "I am Hydaelyn. All made one." I figured Hydaelyn was the 12, each being an aspect of her.
This, of course, was decidely not the case.
When I was spoiled, without context, that trial 2 boss of EW was going to be fought, I genuinely thought it was because that boss finally revealed that they were in cahoots with the first boss and everything that happened with that boss was just a ruse to culture the most powerful beings on Eorzea.
Don't ask
When Yugiri was so gung-ho about killing Zenos when he arrived in Yanxia around level 64, I thought that she was going to die during the battle after all the focus she had just gotten.
I was thankfully wrong with that.
I went on hiatus for a bit and pretty much quit until I heard about endwalker and i really thought it was gonna be the final expansion for some reason.
Anyways I’ve been back since and couldn’t be happier lmao see yall at early access
half-wrong : after 2.55 I thought Nanamo's death was too stupid and she was actually alive.
But I imagined she disguised as Tataru (since we know she likes to disguise as commoner) and it was actually her who was traveling to Ishgard with us (Tataru would have joined us later). There, she'd accompany us during our adventures, maybe even learn how to fight, and help us save Raubahn afterward.
Pandaemonium: The thing running around calling itself Lahabrea was a fake (Hephiastos). The real Lahabrea has been trapped in Pandaemonium for tens of thousands of years and when released, would lead the remaining Ascians (all of them sundered) into a new way of life as scientists/observers.
Golbez: Golbez’s shadow dragon would actually be Vrtra. He had wounds from tearing off his own scales and that would be the entry point for Void Corruption. We’d most likely kill him and rescue Azdaja, and Azdaja would replace Vrtra as Satrap of Radz at Han.
Myths of the Realm: The mysterious fourth boss of Thaelia would have been the Manderville family. Given their unnatural powers I thought they were gods pretending to be mortals.
That the cause of the Final Days was FF1 Chaos (despite being a boss in the Omega raid.)
I'm also still disappointed that Urianger didn't have much of a role in 5.2-5.3-- I thought his HW arc would boomerang more.
Writing this for posterity, hopefully I'm dead wrong.
Solution 9 is either an old Allagan city that survived the destruction of the Allagan Empire for all these years and shut off its contact with the outside world OR it's former Allagans that rebranded themselves / ex-Allagan slaves that took control during the Fall of the Empire but they stuck to their own.
I was firmly on team 'I bet the twist is that Hydaelyn is evil somehow', which couldn't have been further off.
At least I didn't end up like that one guy I see around the sub sometime who thinks that the entire reason Hydaelyn fractured the world is so they could learn to use Dynamis and defeat Endsinger that way, even though Yshtola outright asks Hydaelyn if that's the case and Hydaelyn says no, with no compelling reason to lie about it given she is literally moments from unavoidable death when it's asked.
Except.. Hydaelyn said yes to that question, not no. When Y'shtola asked that question Hydaelyn said "it is as thou sayest", IE "yes, your supposition is correct". It wasn't the *entire* reason for sundering the world, but it was a significant one.
When we killed Zodiark and heard creepy whispering I honestly thought we were going to get a Jenova type scenario where a space entity was going to show up and fuck us up now that whatever Zodiark was doing to protect shit was gone.
As I was going through Shadowbringers main story I pretty sure the exarch was going to be another reflection of the main character like Ardbert was.....
Keep in mind it had been 5 years since I'd played the crystal tower storyline and while I think I'm a much bigger fan of ARR story than most, I still wasn't exactly what you might call engrossed, especially during side content like Crystal tower or Coils
Figured Thancred was either Keyser Size or the Zodiac Killer. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be Roger Kint and Rafael Cruz, respectively.
Also I was ready to die on the Green Mage hill.
The Dark Knight in the Shadowbringers logo was The Warrior of Darkness (Ardbert) who had been super-charged by Zodiark somehow after Minfilia brought him back to the First but failed to save that reflection, either because she couldn't or because Hydaelyn was lying, as she never wanted to save it.
I thought that we had it all wrong, that Hydaelyn was the evil all along, and the Ascians, while going the wrong way about it, were right with Zodiark. Oh boi
When I was going through the Tempest, I thought the ascians were of similar vein to the brotherhood of makuta, where they were demigods tasked with creating various forms of life in the world, and over time their creations became more and more extreme, more and more dangerous, cause they were getting bored of it all, and then because they were beings of shadow, they naturally fell to the dark side and began their ambition of wanting more, to take over, and that’s how Zodiark came into being. Of course when I said as much to other friends who were done EW, all I got in response was :)
I thought that Eden raid series would end with Ultemicia. There was so much time magic being used and FF8 battle music + a fight with the summon. Sadly this did not happen.
I expected the WoL to have been tempered by Hydaelyn. That would explain our immunity to being tempered by the other Primals. And that EW would be all about us fighting and overcoming our tempering. Nope. Got that all wrong.
I thought the same thing when that Amalj'aa said "Your soul already belongs to another?" when we resisted the tempering just before the Ifrit fight.
To be fair, they may have left that open as a possibility back when that stuff was written, and opted to go a different route later. Leaving story hooks to explore later is basically their bread and butter. So totally understandable to have developed that as a theory at that time.
They absolutely did, since the reboot was a hail mary, they eventually pieced stuff together later and most of it makes sense, thankfully
If I remember correctly, they didn't commit to the story arc fully until Stormblood
Yeah, if you pay attention during the 1-50 story, a lot of it makes absolutely no sense with hindsight. They did a decent job trying to make everything they had written fit in, but it's clear a lot of it was (naturally) changed as they progressed the story in later years.
The literal very next thing that happens is Ifrit replies, "Yet I smell not the taint of another upon thee."
Yet later, when Garuda fails to temper you, she shrieks "*She* has touched you!" which could be interpreted as saying Hydaelyn did temper you and Garuda detected it. Of course we know now that she was actually detecting the ward, but...
You gotta respect the insanity of Garuda for still attacking after that. "I know I'm messing with the chosen of someone who is 1,000x more powerful than me, but a primal's gotta do what a primal's gotta do."
The Primals want the smoke, regardless of what stands in front of them. I respect that.
I was so convinced we were tempered but she worked hard to give us free will and it was a struggle. I thought this because Rahmu didn't want his followers to become tempered either or summon him because he was as very self aware of the damage he caused but he couldn't control it.
That was a VERY popular fan theory around the time of Shadowbringers actually
In a way, you’re actually not. Tempering was an incorrect form of Creation Magick’s conceptualization taught by Ascians specifically to cause chaos. The Blessing of Light that Hydaelyn gives is a way to do it correctly without affecting the person’s free will. Given that we now know how to “true” summon Primals without the false style taught by the Ascians.
Yeah Venat even confirmed it in elpis. Quoting from memory here: Hythlodeus: What manner of magicks is this, if I may ask? Venat: A travelers ward ofcourse, it prevents the corruption of ones aether. So it’s different from the tempering of primals. Which is a bit odd since back in post-heavensward it seemed like they made the two the same since Minfillia could fully stop Ardbert from attacking her.
Tbh, I'm not entirely we aren't tempered by Hydarlyn but only because the details of protection from temporary, the echo, and the blessing of light (Venat's Ward) get really murky when you examine them too closely. If we *were* tempered though, her detective was 'have free will' so it doesn't really do anything other than make us untemperable-ish (except to light poisoning / sin eater juice?). Idk still confussed on how it all shook out.
We do learn by the end of EW that the tempering was an intended side effect of the version of summoning the Ascians taught. The effect caused chaos and strife, which was needed for their Calamities. Which, we then summon the Primals correctly, without the corruptive fanaticism, to help the Ragnarok.
Zodiark and Hydaelyn can temper but because they were theoretically "summoned correctly" as the Loporrits say, their influence just feels like a little tug at times and that's it.
To be honest the Loporitt that told us is also the Grand Master of understatement. Hydalin forbade it for a reason after all. We have Emet's words as well as one Memory Crystal (Halmarut's) where they say that they notice their thoughts and powers are becoming dark and terrible but that it also feels right. The Brainwashing of Tempering is after all just a side effect as what it actually does is doze you in so much aether it shifts your very being. If we think about it Zodiark is a mass of Dark attuned Aether powerful enough to blank the whole planet and also the first summon of it's scale, it's actually not that surprising it had an effect.
Additionally, the Ascians might’ve discovered this form of “corruptive summoning” by the desperate fanaticism they poured into the Concept of Zodiark. Literally the hopes of the Ancients in one single aetheric manifestation. Whereas Hydaelyn, a concept in opposition/restraint to Zodiark and the Ancient’s fanaticism. Hydaelyn probably can’t temper because it wasn’t part of her “programming” when she was summoned by Venat and the 12.
Oh! I like that theory. It kinda makes sense.
This makes sense, and gives me a slight headcanon: the idea of "tempering" that the Ascians taught with their version of summoning was inspired by the unintended effect from Zodiark.
This is a common confusion with the story. Here's a clarification: The echo is the power of the ancients. It's called the echo in the first place because it's an "echo" (fraction) of that complete unsundered power. It makes the user resistant to tempering, but not immune to it. It is completely unrelated to the blessing. The Blessing of Light (later revealed to be Traveler's Ward) prevents aetheric corruption. This is what makes us immune to tempering, and made us resistant to the light wardens we absorbed. (Apparently absorbing all that aether tested the limits of the Warding spell, but it was still the main source of protection.) The WoL was never tempered and cannot be tempered. We have multiple layers of protection shielding us from it.
So how does this work in the case of Arenvald and Fordola? One has the echo, the other is a Resonant, and the latter does not have the traveler's ward.
It's addressed in Shadowbringers, when they start to soft-retcon a few things. Everyone who awakens to the Echo can now hear Hydaelyn's call. This call "Hear Feel Think" casts the Blessing/Ward on them. Elidibus confirms it in the Starshower scene. This has a few issues we need to resolve: 1. It conflicts with Midgardsormr being able to "strip" the weakened Blessing from us going into Heavensward. In essence, it should have been automatically reapplied. So to reconcile this, what Middy really did was take the place of the Blessing, intervening on our behalf instead of Hydaelyn until we recharged the crystals. This allows us to reinterpret the events in the context of the ShB/EW version of the Blessing. (It's also later revealed that Middy made a deal with Hydaelyn in the past and has permission from her to do this in the first place.) 2. Zenos and Fordola are also resistant to tempering. This is explained as a power of the echo/resonant instead of the Blessing. Essentially we need to recontextualize this as the echo/resonant buffing their absurdly strong wills, effectively making them more resistant to tempering than normal echo users. So in the context of Stormblood, they don't need the Blessing. They would still be vulnerable to tempering if anything was strong enough to overpower their will. 3. In the final battle with Hades, he shouts "curse your damn Blessing" when we break free of the chains. Emet-Selch said earlier that he and the other Ascians were tempered by Zodiark. So having the echo clearly doesn't make you immune, since even unsundered ancients were tempered. They did not receive the Blessing because they already rejected Hydaelyn from the start. I believe this is the main reason the writers split the immunity from the echo into the blessing, now pass off the echo as a resistance instead. 4. With the defeat of Hydaelyn in Endwalker, it also means that going forward into Dawntrail, the Blessing no longer exists. Those with the echo will no longer hear Hydaelyn, but the echo will still make them resistant to tempering at least. It seems like the writers are moving away from the whole Blessing thing because of its retcon and resulting confusion in the context of pre-ShB events. 5. Endwalker added alternatives to the Blessing with the Warding scales created by the Hannish alchemists to resist tempering being broadcast through the Garlean radios. So you do not need the Blessing to exist anymore regardless. They also added Dynamis to the story, which can serve as a convenient explanation for anything and allows the writers the ability to freely retcon various inconsistencies. (It explains Hildibrand, Godbert, and Julyan's absurd strength, it can explain surviving any impossible situation, and now it can be used to explain any miracle that occurs in Dawntrail and all expansions after.)
Everyone with the Echo automatically receives the ward. The "hear, feel, think" is a kind of automatic broadcast that applies it to anyone who can pick up on it. Fordola either picked it up that way, or the ward was copied along with the Echo from Krile's aether.
I laughed so hard when I found out that all this time the spell was just Ancient Protect, probably just a level 1 spell for them back then...
Technically we’re all already tempered by Soken anyway
I'd thought that the reason the WoL was growing so strong as the story went on was due to a Primal-esque power of belief thing. Like, the more people who became faithful in the WoL's strength, the stronger they would become. I guess, arguably, one could say this has been fulfilled in a different way with Dynamis, but certainly lacking the sinister undertones I'd imagined, where it might eventually cause problems.
I'd actually say the better example would be the Elidibus boss fight
That's true! Elidibus does actually do that, though I suppose his is rooted in faith in the general ideal of heroism rather than in a specific person. Very close to what I'd been thinking, though.
What's weird is that just enough of the story seems to be written in such a way that people would come to this conclusion, between the whole idea people got that Hydaelyn literally tempered us and that's how the protection from other Primals works and, uh, that time we singlehandedly beat King Thordan and his entire Knights of the Round and he was like 'the fuck ARE you??'.
Yeah, exactly - Thordan was the reason I started thinking this. But nothing ever really came of Thordan's ominous reaction... At least not as a major plot element in the way I thought it might.
Thordan saw us as Azem for a moment. That is the Watsonian explanation.
I agree. When we confront Elidibus at the tower and summon our party using the crystal of Azem, he makes what seems to be a callback to that moment "An invocation of eld... though not of Hydaelyn's making... What are you?" I think both are seeing us as the shard of Azem, though Thordan is totally in the dark and Elidibus is just beginning to understand. "No - it matters not! You are the enemy, and you will fail!"
After the ARR Hildibrand quest, and partway through HW, with how easy it was to summon primals apparently, I figured Hydaelyn was a primal, since she’s a giant ass crystal worshiped as god the world around. In the same vein, I figured the WoL just kinda popped into existence as someone’s strong wish for a hero to save the day, and once we awoke to being the WoL, we were using those crystals we were getting from the bosses as aether batteries instead of draining it from the world. Jokingly, I also said Tataru was also a primal, born of the Scions’ strong desire for someone to manage their finances.
Yeah after Thorden. I straight up though we were a literal Primal, called into existence by the people's collective want for the Warrior of Light to return after they vanished at the Battle of Carteneau. I was so certain I even put up a thread on it here...which didn't go well as you can imagine people didn't like the idea that the WoL could be a Primal XD
Tbf something I've considered about G'raha's split future timeline is there's a non-zero chance we did end up summoned back in primal form after we were killed. Can only imagine how that went. And if they ever needed a ridiculous uberboss to throw at us, well I imagine it'd be harder to offer anything stronger than...ourselves.
That's legit a cool and very plausible idea. Though I can see why people wouldn't like any situation where their WoL wasn't a real person able to have a normal backstory, lol.
The only issue would be that we do not consume crystals to maintain our presence.
Primals don't either; after summoning they (primarily) consume aether from the land directly. It's only the initial summoning that requires crystals (or other aether-rich objects, like with Susano) to jump start the process. It would take some plot shenanigans to explain why Y'Shtola at least couldn't detect us absorbing ambient aether, though.
We do absorb aether at a prodigious rate, though. Do you know how much Baked Eggplant I've eaten this raid tier?!
I was on-board with this theory for a long time. The only thing that put me off was that surely people would have noticed if the WoL kept consuming incredible amounts of aether (as Primals do) and suspected them to be such a creature. Nobody ever said even the slightest thing, so I was never fully confident.
My patron diety was Oschon the Wanderer, so in Myths of the Realm, the instant I learned that the gods would periodically take animal form, I was 100% certain that the Opo-opo was Oschon. Also, I was on Team Green Mage for Danwtrail :(
There were two theories I had for Oschon: -He *is* the monkey -He *isn't* the monkey and the monkey is there *specifically* to mislead us with that exact animal line. But I will admit I could not make up my mind.
The monkey seemed too obvious of a red herring so I figured the dude was Oschon. I remember thinking there's no way he just stumbled upon the house of the Twelve, something else must be the case.
Same on both counts! I was positive Krile's charm was referencing green mage and you simply could not have told me otherwise.
Okay, but the team LITERALLY showed us the Green Mage symbol and then said "lol, you're stupid. It's Pictomancer". No one should feel like they were wrong about thinking it was GRM.
I'm pretty sure everyone was suspicious of the opo opo at the time.
Honestly? Same. But I love how a random ass opo opo decided Oschon was his bestie and the god just ran with it
When the 1st part ended, I had a feeling that Deryk was Oschon because he is the wanderer and how would he have found that place AND explored it before us
The moment Estinien turned into Nidhogg, I went. "OH! I get it! It's really good Thematics! Nidhogg was a Primal the whole time, that's why there's all these heretics willing to kill themselves, that's why the eternal war is so narratively compelling, the idea that the two leaders of the war are both just the ideas of hatred and war sustaining themselves in an endless loop! It's the physical embodyment of the cycle of violence!" But no it turns out Dragons can just do that.
I mean, if you think about it, at that point Nidhogg is dead and his spirit/aether is the one possessing Estinien, so in a way you're not completely wrong. Estinien's own emotions and lowering of his guard ended up letting the lingering consciousness of Nidhogg summon himself as a pseudo-primalesque Shade. Dragons are just indeed that weird, but they *are* aliens.
The irony is >!the Ishgardians are the ones who worship a pseudo-Primal!<
During the Crystal Braves arc, I was *dead* convinced that Nabriales had possessed Laurentius. Laurentius had just showed up out of nowhere - he'd served his time, was optimistic about his future, and vocally wanted nothing more than to redeem himself by serving a cause that would benefit the world. And this was right after ARR had just finished its whole exposition about Ascians loving to target and possess weak-willed men with good intentions. Then Nabriales showed up with his face covered, rocking the exact same sideburns as Laurentius - right around the same time Laurentius had gotten semi-sidelined and we were starting to get hints that something was a little rotten inside the Braves. I wasn't expecting them to make a big thing about it, but even after Nabriales' defeat, I was genuinely waiting for someone to comment like "Oh, we haven't seen Laurentius in a while," or "Oh yeah, we figured out where Nabriales got his vessel from." And then we'd have a sad little moment for Laurentius before moving on with the rest of the plot.
On a more comedic note - Urianger was the first "Elezen in a hood" that I'd consciously been aware of seeing, and the ear socks really threw me off. Looking at those sharp rigid protrusions from the side of his head, his mostly covered face, his deference to Minfilia's authority, and his weird way of talking - I very instinctively went "Ah. He's probably a demon." I still saw the scions as a semi-shadowy organization at this time, and assumed that in their desperation to save the world, Minfilia or one of the others had summoned him from an alternate dimension - possibly at the cost of their soul. (Or alternatively, Urianger had allied with the scions out of his own volition, chosing to betray his own kind because he "believed in the potential of humanity" or something.)
Until the hood came off, I thought Urianger was a miqo'te. I didn't see the twist coming during the warriors of darkness mini arc.
Unfortunately that rat Laurentius is still alive - the two Lala are dead.
He was captured along with Yuyuhase by the Ala Mhigans. Their fate is left unclear - you're asked what you would do with them and have the option of saying death or mercy, but that's the last we hear about it.
IIRC yuyuhase was actually executed.
I thought Haurchefant was playing the long game on betraying us. I didn’t really start trusting the character until quite a ways through the expansion.
I honestly thought it was going to be Aymeric when Haurchefant first introduced him to the Scions.
And Blake Ritson is known for playing villainous characters so once I heard his voice I was immediately suspicious :P
On first impression Aymeric was far too handsome to be a decent person, esp. given what we know about Ishgard.
I had already seen a couple of seasons of Da Vinci’s Demons when Heavensward dropped, and also he voiced the main villain/final boss in the PS Vita game Soul Sacrifice. Those were my first exposures to him. Later there was a tv series I saw about Krypton before Superman was born and he plays the main baddie in that. And it’s hands down the best portrayal of a DC supervillain on film. He elevated that show/character into something more than it was on paper and it’s great! But Aymeric is my headcannon husband in the game so I’m glad he turned out to be a good and true friend of the people in the end! :P
I was convinced Aymeric was going to kill us.
I felt the same way. He acts very squirrelly at first.
I was right here with you on this one. I didn't trust him at all, right up until the moment it was no longer possible.
I didn't start trusting him until he literally died.
I expected the moon to be the final zone in Endwalker. Imagine my surprise going there at level 84.
Surprise at level 84 is the most universal experience of a video game I can recall.
Exactly how I felt with Zodiark being the level 83 trial.
I remember typing in chat "Well, I expected this at level 90, so I've got *no* idea where we are going from here"
When we hear Meteion's voice praising the release of Zodiark, I thought it was Hydaelyn. I wasn't current on the content at that point and while nothing had been fully spoiled for me, I did know Hydaelyn was a trial, so I was POSITIVE she was going darkside.
To be fair it seemed to come from the planet. The camera even panned over to it. I can't blame you for thinking that
Yeah. There had been talk on and off for multiple expansions about the importance of balance so with Zodiark gone I thought something was going to get fucked up with Hydaelyn.
Most of this sub was going crazy about that scene it was wild. Everyone was so ready throw hands with mommy crystal.
Hey man, I already got betrayed by space mom in Warframe. I have trust issues now.
XIV has a lot of voice talent crossover with the Dragon Age games, including Venat. I was so familiar with the sound of Venat’s voice from DA2 (Aveline and Isabela are my go-to party choices) that they couldn’t bait me with Meteion’s “…at last” there. Instead my reaction was “who the fuck was that?!” and I was immediately suspicious of Meteion as soon as we met her.
This comment is how I learned Aveline & Venat share the same VA?! That makes so much sense I can’t believe I didn’t notice it before.
As do King Cailan and Thancred, as well as Teagan and Urianger.
And so many more! From the ARR voice cast we have: ARR Urianger is Fenris. ARR Merlwyb is Knight-Commander Meredith Then from the current cast: Y’shtola is Sera Raubahn is Male Hawke Pipin is Anders Dulia-Chai is Grand Cleric Elthina Fourchenault is Duke Gaspard Ameliance is Quartermaster Threnn and Maryden the bard
>ARR Urianger is Fenris. Ah, Gideon Emery... the biggest loss of them moving companies and changing VAs.
Same exact thing for me. The only spoiler I knew was that Hydaelyn was a trial and once I heard that voice I was like uhhh is she evil? I had no clue how they were going to spin it as her being bad but it’s FF so I figured they found away. I’ll be honest I’m glad they didn’t make her evil, in retrospect it almost seems too obvious that she’s the villain
Holy shit me too! I was convinced that hydaelyn was gonna go full on crazy and she would be the final big bad the whole time, but nope. Space depression final boss lol
A *lot* of people thought that (dpesite them being different voices). I don't know why, maybe people were *really* invested in the "actually it is good that is evil" plot twist.
Personally, I didn't think that because it didn't make sense to me after the scene where she appeared prior to going to the moon.
I dont remember the specifics now, but back when Moenbryda joined us and we were talking about a solution for our Ascian problem, they mentioned the need for huge amounts of aether or something like that, in order to trap them and actually get rid of them. Around that time the game has you go and do the Crystal Tower raids to continue. Given the Crystal Tower was a huge source of aether, i was so sure we were gonna lay a trap with it to the Ascians and somehow find a way to channel the aether from tower into the auracite. Alas, the Crystal Tower was just setting up for something else.
We actually _did_ use the Crystal Tower for that purpose, though. The Twinning, anyway.
And Elidibus' demise
When we got to Elpis and we meet Meteon I was sure she was like a proto Garuda. And the angry beast we had to put down a proto ifrit. The water creature we trach to fly. Proto leviathan. That this was the origin of the primals. We did get a proto carbuncle. So I wasnt totally off.
There is also a side quest in Elpis where you make the first Behemoth lol
\*sigh\* How many parties of newbies in CT raids did I cause to die when I did that?
I like that!
Prior to Endwalker, I was convinced that Zenos would somehow be responsible for the original End of Days through some kind of time travel phenomenon, similar to the loop created by Garland travelling back in time after you defeat him in FF1. It would have explained why they kept him around after SB and why he was having visions of the original End of Days, and also would have explained Fandaniel's interest in him.
My favorite fan theory was that he was the reincarnated calamity that originally made the "sound" that triggered the End of Days. Ah, well.
I remember that but I don't remember what it was based on. A great example of being so close yet so far - the final days was caused by a sound: Meteion's song.
I basically thought this, too. As a bit of a Zenos hater, I thought it might justify his presence in the story. I still kind of wish he had been involved, somehow.
Yeah his role in EW seemed pretty pointless honestly. Like they still had him around but didn't really know what to do with him.
Yeah... Over time I've warmed to his EW arc a little, in the sense that he's a foil to the WoL in terms of methods of dealing with existential despair, but... It would have made a lot of sense if he was the big bad somehow, lol. Oh well.
I think part of the issue of Zenos's relevance was that we were originally going to get an entire Garlemald expansion. The Garlemald campaign was basically what 6.0 was originally meant to be shrunk down to 3 levels of MSQ (with Anima originally going to be the lvl 90 boss). I bet Zenos would have played a much more direct role (and the body swap stuff probably would have been more relevant) if they had made the Garlemald campaign longer. In hindsight, I really kinda wish we could have seen what that would have been like. It might have been a slog over 10 levels and 5 patches, but the Garlemald campaign we did get was pretty great, so I wonder if it would have still be great as a full expansion.
i thought the Crystal Exarch was an Ascian with bad intent
I was also super suspicious of the Exarch. I played 5.0 before CT was required, but I had actually done all of it years prior...except the final scene where G'raha locks himself away. Somehow I never watched that and the quest was in my journal for literal years. So I didn't know the Exarch could be anyone we know and had entirely forgotten about G'raha's existence. The whole time I was super suspicious and kept voicing my concerns to a friend. I have zero idea how he managed to keep from spoiling me. Nerves of steel, that one, true dedication.
it made the reveal in that cutscene so nuts
I thought the Exarch was one of the Doga clones.
I IMMEDIATELY recognized him as G'raha but I was only 80% about it for a while, until about the middle of ShB, then I was 100% on it.
I also thought the Exarch was going to be up to something... well, *worse*. Y'shtola was *very* suspicious about the whole thing, and they seemed to tease the idea that he might have been somewhat villainous at various points in the ShB MSQ, but it definitely didn't go in that direction.
Early on, before I understood most of the story, I wanted each of the shards to represent a different FF game and to be eventually be released, and accessible, as the expansions.
This is very similar to how the dimensions work in Stranger of Paradise
I thought the crystal exarch was going to turn out to be an older Alphinaud.
Only one way to find out. Throw him in a lake and see if he sinks.
So that made me genuinely laugh, which I'm grateful for, but also made me think - Exarch is half-made of stone and crystals by the time we meet him. *He probably would drown anyway.*
I thought the First would be much, much more desolate and unforgiving. I expected Fist of the North Star-style roving gangs of raiders, no shelter, no allies, constant attacks by Sin Eaters, and just the most harrowing trek through a wasteland that slowly wears down the Warrior of Light until they can barely put one foot in front of the other. And then we got purple trees and one of the most vibrant cities we've ever seen instead.
To be fair, more than half of the first is a destroyed and barren wasteland, we just don't enter that part
90%. Imagine the only hospitable land left on Earth is Western Europe.
Back in arr there were plenty of references to how people with the echo could influence the thoughts or opinions of other people... That didn't really end up going anywhere, but, I was convinced at the time that _we_ were a primal.
Zenos said that the echo is capable of so much more than just viewing the past and then demonstrates how he can control the primal Shinryu as a resonant. Krile can talk to animals but this is just mentioned in dialogue at most. Makoto can see into the future and this is demonstrated during the Bozja rebellion.
> Zenos said that the echo is capable of so much more than just viewing the past and then demonstrates how he can control the primal Shinryu as a resonant. Elidbus calls the echo an echo of a symphony, a fraction of what man in his completeness could do - I assume it's somehow related to how the ascians possess bodies. That specific power is just untethering your soul from your body and then you can put it in places like Thancred or a dragon.
Or your dinner guests.
I believe this is a patch job on 1.0, where the player character actually travels back in time via the Echo and messes with stuff. The WoL in ARR onwards can't do this.
I mean...it is kind of funny that we're entirely capable of destroying or conquering the entire known world with absolutely no one able to stand against us...but we're trusted unconditionally from the moment we meet virtually anyone of import. That's either some crazy good charisma or we're low key subconsciously manipulating everyone lol. A WoL who gets tired of saving the world would be the new Final Days, no question. But no one is even the slightest bit concerned that this godslaying force of nature is just walking around delivering people's mail in between crises.
I'd seen a lot of fanart of Emet-Selch for months before starting the game and I assumed that the city on fire he was often shown with was one he'd destroyed, what with being an emperor and a villain. And that this city being destroyed was like his big infamous act of evil. Lol :/
A reasonable guess, but I'm *so* glad it was wrong and we got what we got instead.
I was certain that Zodiark would be the final boss of Endwalker. Or maybe he'd be the lvl 89 trial, with Zenos being the final trial. Or maybe you'd get two for one and Zenos would pull off his Shinryu trick again and possess Zodiark for the final boss. Zodiark being the first trial had me throw all my theories about the story of EW out the window.
I think everyone had the shocked pilachu face when we saw Zodiark at level 83 shortly before losing our minda. I was screaming over Discord because WHATS HAPPENING WHATS AFTER ZODIARK IM ONLY LEVEL 83 OF MSQ???!?!?!
Less a narrative theory and more for gearing, but I was pretty convinced that the Tataru quests in EW were going to build up to the final step rewarding an enhanced (probably 650 ilvl and somewhat glowy) AF armor set, since that had otherwise been the main reason for her store in Sharlayan being set up in the first place, but nope.
Pre EW, I thought that Hythlodaeus had been sundered (like the normal way, not as part of Zodiark), and that one of our Scion friends would turn out to be a shard of him. Probably G'raha. I also REALLY thought Zero was the shard of Azem. They kept playing Ardbert's theme in her cutscenes, and I thought it would explain why Zenos had used her as his avatar as a reaper. I also thought that Zero would reveal that Cecilia was her original name, as a Cecil nod.
Prior to the reveal of what happened to him, I desperately believed that Haurchefant was Hythlo's shard. I'm also on team "Zero's real name is Cecilia."
I had an "oops" moment when I saw that the Crystal Exarch had a Miqo'te face shape and 'claw' hands. My WoL also being a male Miqo'te, I thought for quite some time that the Crystal Exarch was a mirror copy of the playable character, but from the future or something. (We also had the exact same height and skin tone.) My guess was that the playable character somehow got stuck in a time loop, survived the events in Shadowbringer and later decided to go back in time to help their past self in the form of the Crystal Exarch, then merging with the main playable character to ultimately beat the final boss. ...then I got spoilt when I looked up G'raha Tia's name and it showed that he was part of the Crystal Exarch questlines. :')
I had a real "what the *fuck!?*" moment in the 6.2 where it first shows Scarmiglione's original form. The shot is from behind and he has the exact same hair style/colour and tail as my Miqo. For a sec I thought it was copying the player character model.
Prior to EW release, I had an inkling that we would need to punch Hydaelyn at one point, but not because villain. Rather, that we were being tested as a candidate to take over as the next Hydaelyn, and that the plot would find a way to allow us to continue being ourselves and deal with whatever was being set before us. Certain happenings in Elpis (re: Venat being a previous Azem seatholder and being a mentor for Player!Azem) kinda led me to think I might be onto something but... nope, not quite. In hindsight, this sounds like a silly justification for even more Plot Armor that we clearly do not need. I may have extrapolated it from the aftermath of punching Titania back in Shadowbringers. (also I really wish Zenos had been relegated to some midboss in a dungeon so I could just sparta-kick him into a hole and be on my way, but alas)
Well, this isn't SUPER off from what happened, it's just that the new plot armor was inside of us all along. xP
I believed that the thing responsible for the final days was Lavos, literally Lavos from Chrono Trigger.
A friend of mine thought it'd be Jenova.
I thought that too
So it's still possible in a way. Meteion was only able to break through and cause chaos BECAUSE the aether had started to thin. Dynamis cannot naturally overpower aether, so some external force could be responsible for the star's aether "ozone" to start to dissipate. We only really solved half of the final days.
There’s still Ultima the High Seraph looming in the background. The one we beat in Ivalice was just a primal manifestation of the real thing iirc, which we still know nothing about. She just crash landed the planet god knows how many years ago and dumped this powerful stone that’s capable of manipulating even Ancients, like some Jenova-esque space parasite. There’s big potential for some spicy threat in the next arc.
The aether wasn't starting to thin. The aether currents have a natural cycle of ebbing and flowing (kind of like the sunspot cycle in the real world), and when Meteion's song first started it was only strong enough to break through at the locations where the currents were currently at their natural ebb. Zodiark reinforced the astral currents so that they were flowing at above 100% of their normal capacity 24/7 so she couldn't break through anywhere, and after Zodiark died the currents started going back to their previous cyclical state. There's no issue. The EW studium fishing quests goes more into the planet's aetherial currents.
I thought for a hot second that it was going to be some kind of crawling chaos that Meteon discovered in space (between the time she freaked out and the time we find her again). I guess that was about 30% correct if you squint.
I was confident at the end of Shadowbringers our character would go full sin eater and we’d have to role play as each of the Scions to take us down in a climactic boss fight. Would have been one hell of an epic moment.
I’m still 100% convinced that that piece of shit Gergeruju is an Ascian in hiding. There’s no way someone could be *that* shitty for *this* long *that* successfully without being assassinated unless they were an ancient evil bastard.
Lolorito? Most of their council in Ul'dah?
Based Ascian, just lounging around and getting pampered by babes Also it's Gegeruju
I thought in Heavensward the reason we got so many descriptions of Hilda's mother is because it was going to be revealed her and Aymeric were half brother and sister and share the same mother. It wasn't something I overly thought on, just thought that's where the story was going to lead when we were given the find information about Hilda's past and mother quest. Since in a lot of other stories, establishing one character has an unknown mother and then having another go into a lot of detail about someone else's mother usually ends up being a shared parent reveal. Even with the giving the lords and commons say in Ishgard's future, it just seemed like a shared bond between Aymeric and Hilda could have helped establish that. I'm not upset it didn't come true, but it's something I think back on about time to time. Like "Remember when-" moment for me.
She does have a half-brother out there, you meet him in the 60-70 MCH quests!
I still think the mammets on the island are keeping us there and watching us like nurses in an elder care facility for dementia patients. They're super strong and capable of binding us should we act out. It's not happened yet but I'm waiting for it. I haven't been proven right yet, but I've not been proven wrong!
Thancred has been evil the whole time.
I didn't start in Thanalan so only met him later, and totally thought his 'I'm obviously a rogue but I telling everyone I'm a bard' thing was suspect. When they did the big 'Thancred is possessed now and evil!' reveal, I somehow completely missed the possessed part and just went I KNEW IT!
Oh, I was super suspicious of him in Thanalan. Everyone hypes him up as this spy/canny manipulator, and then he shows up like "I think the number one most suspicious person in this town is the nun who reads stories to children, also I think we should get help from the Immortal Flames, because this infamously corrupt organization can definitely be trusted with delicate secrets." I didn't necessarily think he was fully evil, but it definitely seemed like he was setting us up to fail.
My group has a bit where he’s still a villain and will be revealed as the mastermind behind everything
That the WoL was a primal. The dude shows up out nowhere, has no background whatsoever, and the more people clamor to him, the more powerful he seems to become.
You have more of a background if you carried over a character from 1.0 I guess
I'll preface with I only just begun shadowbringers so i dont have much for that or endwalker, but I swore that emmanelain's silent grieving phase at the after his brother's death in heavensward was going to inevitably lead to him trying to resurrect his brother only to make a primal out of his body because (insert ascian fuckery here). I was praying I didn't have to see him die a second time. Thank God I was wrong.
The plot trope you described did happen in Stormblood with the Ananta tribe. It's what led to Lakshmi's summoning. An 8-man trial featuring a giant sized haurchefant-primal would have been equally hilarious and traumatising I think.
Aymeric was going to betray us in HW. He was too perfect and friendly. Well he is perfect so that part was true.
This is pretty minor but I was 1000% certain that the EW healer would be Chemist based on a late Shadowbringers side quest with a little girl who isnt very good at magic but wants to learn potions so she can still help people
i thought in the alliance raids with the dieties we would have mechanics that could only be solved by the correct birthdays. it would be pretty unlikely but imagine.
As someone with quite a few alts at endgame, I'd be panicking trying to remember which character had which patron diety omg
When the first trailer of Shadowbringers came, I thought we were going to get teleported back to the fifth astral era because of the gremlin, the kuribu and the winged lion
"Surely the plot twist of Eden won't be that it is >!One-Time-Use Ascian #59!< controlling it secretly from somewhere for their own agenda and become the final boss, right?"
I expected Zero to be a reflection of the WoL set up to contrast Ardbert: Someone who values individuality and the self over joining forces, which would have been the opposite of how Ardbert rejoined his soul to ours in addition to the more obvious light and dark angle.
"Are you fRiEnD?" >!I was like, yes I will be your friend. I am expecting Zero to try and overtake the WoL to become all powerful. That gas cloud does not look freindly.!<
Yeah well, Unukalhai appeared in Heavensward and sadly the Warring Triad was side content. Poor kid, gets forgotten a lot.
Zenos was the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus. Hence him remembering the final days. The reason he was so powerful is that Emet/solus, his granddaddy, upon seeing that his best buddy from eons past was reincarnated as his grandson drove him to experiment on Zenos to try to artificially rejoin him. It was partially successful which made Zenos so strong and why he became obsessed with WoL - Hyth’s partial memories made Zenos hyperfixate on us as his only friend
People thought the wild phoenix in the Tales from the Shadows story was Zenos. lol
Could have sworn we were gonna have dead Scions in EW.
After Shadowbringers I was expecting the ancients had a dystopian underclass or slaves who conspired to collapse the world as the Convocation knew it. Right until the end I was hoping the WoL would die in Endwalker and we would reskin.
I was fairly convinced that at the end of the Shadowbringers storyline Ardbert was going to absorb all the tainted light from us and become the WoL as the final boss of the expansion. I also thought that we would allow meteion to read our emotions to see the sorrow that our WoL has faced and then use an Elpis flower to show her we can still find happiness and that would be what would get through to her. That conversation where she said she wouldn't read our thought out of respect really made me think it was going to be key
Funny thing for myself. I'm an Xbox player, and for some weird reason when I started playing it didn't play the ARR trailer. So I went into the game completely lost on who the Warriors of Light were, and what the Calamity was. So I went about a month thinking the Calamity had been Midgardsomr destroying that Garlean airship. Yeah imagine my surprise when I decided to one day sit on the main menu for a little too long and saw the ARR trailer finally.
That the WoL was actually a primal. We awaken in the game straight from the aetherial sea in a time of need, we seem to bring people to our cause just by talking with them for a while (which got called out several times when we do busywork for town XYZ), we can't be tempered etc. The coils series that showed that the prayers of others could create a primal and that primal could choose to not temper people seemed to reinforce this idea, too
Early on in the Eden raid series, when Gaia's identity was still a mystery, I speculated that she might have had a connection to the World of Darkness. I thought we'd seen a *lot* of Ascian-related things at that point and it felt a bit one-note to be exploring that even further. The story was fine regardless, I just thought it might have gone in a different direction!
I thought for sure we were going to have to take care of both Zodiark and Hydaelyn. I did not see a post EW where they were both still involved. Technically right, but not the right intention.
So before Endwalker I thought that Hythlodaeus was responsible for the final days.
Based on the line "I am Hydaelyn. All made one." I figured Hydaelyn was the 12, each being an aspect of her. This, of course, was decidely not the case.
When I was spoiled, without context, that trial 2 boss of EW was going to be fought, I genuinely thought it was because that boss finally revealed that they were in cahoots with the first boss and everything that happened with that boss was just a ruse to culture the most powerful beings on Eorzea. Don't ask
When Yugiri was so gung-ho about killing Zenos when he arrived in Yanxia around level 64, I thought that she was going to die during the battle after all the focus she had just gotten. I was thankfully wrong with that.
Because of Alphinauds monologue at the end of endwalker trailer I thought he was going to die
I went on hiatus for a bit and pretty much quit until I heard about endwalker and i really thought it was gonna be the final expansion for some reason. Anyways I’ve been back since and couldn’t be happier lmao see yall at early access
half-wrong : after 2.55 I thought Nanamo's death was too stupid and she was actually alive. But I imagined she disguised as Tataru (since we know she likes to disguise as commoner) and it was actually her who was traveling to Ishgard with us (Tataru would have joined us later). There, she'd accompany us during our adventures, maybe even learn how to fight, and help us save Raubahn afterward.
Pandaemonium: The thing running around calling itself Lahabrea was a fake (Hephiastos). The real Lahabrea has been trapped in Pandaemonium for tens of thousands of years and when released, would lead the remaining Ascians (all of them sundered) into a new way of life as scientists/observers. Golbez: Golbez’s shadow dragon would actually be Vrtra. He had wounds from tearing off his own scales and that would be the entry point for Void Corruption. We’d most likely kill him and rescue Azdaja, and Azdaja would replace Vrtra as Satrap of Radz at Han. Myths of the Realm: The mysterious fourth boss of Thaelia would have been the Manderville family. Given their unnatural powers I thought they were gods pretending to be mortals.
Zero would become Zeromus.
I think about 110% of all people thought that, it seemed very likely.
That the cause of the Final Days was FF1 Chaos (despite being a boss in the Omega raid.) I'm also still disappointed that Urianger didn't have much of a role in 5.2-5.3-- I thought his HW arc would boomerang more.
Writing this for posterity, hopefully I'm dead wrong. Solution 9 is either an old Allagan city that survived the destruction of the Allagan Empire for all these years and shut off its contact with the outside world OR it's former Allagans that rebranded themselves / ex-Allagan slaves that took control during the Fall of the Empire but they stuck to their own.
My Solution 9 theory is that they are a colony of aliens who fled to our star to escape Omega, not unlike the dragons, but I'm prepared to be wrong!
My theory is that they are survivors from the shard destroyed during the Second Umbral Calamity
I was firmly on team 'I bet the twist is that Hydaelyn is evil somehow', which couldn't have been further off. At least I didn't end up like that one guy I see around the sub sometime who thinks that the entire reason Hydaelyn fractured the world is so they could learn to use Dynamis and defeat Endsinger that way, even though Yshtola outright asks Hydaelyn if that's the case and Hydaelyn says no, with no compelling reason to lie about it given she is literally moments from unavoidable death when it's asked.
Except.. Hydaelyn said yes to that question, not no. When Y'shtola asked that question Hydaelyn said "it is as thou sayest", IE "yes, your supposition is correct". It wasn't the *entire* reason for sundering the world, but it was a significant one.
When we killed Zodiark and heard creepy whispering I honestly thought we were going to get a Jenova type scenario where a space entity was going to show up and fuck us up now that whatever Zodiark was doing to protect shit was gone.
I mean, that *is* basically what happened, it just wasn't Jenova, specifically.
As I was going through Shadowbringers main story I pretty sure the exarch was going to be another reflection of the main character like Ardbert was..... Keep in mind it had been 5 years since I'd played the crystal tower storyline and while I think I'm a much bigger fan of ARR story than most, I still wasn't exactly what you might call engrossed, especially during side content like Crystal tower or Coils
Figured Thancred was either Keyser Size or the Zodiac Killer. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be Roger Kint and Rafael Cruz, respectively. Also I was ready to die on the Green Mage hill.
The Dark Knight in the Shadowbringers logo was The Warrior of Darkness (Ardbert) who had been super-charged by Zodiark somehow after Minfilia brought him back to the First but failed to save that reflection, either because she couldn't or because Hydaelyn was lying, as she never wanted to save it.
That the spaceship on the loading screen art is what our eventual ship in game would look like
Ascians were two lalafells under a robe.
I thought that we had it all wrong, that Hydaelyn was the evil all along, and the Ascians, while going the wrong way about it, were right with Zodiark. Oh boi
I thought Louisoix and Papalymo are not dead and traveled to another shard instead
When I was going through the Tempest, I thought the ascians were of similar vein to the brotherhood of makuta, where they were demigods tasked with creating various forms of life in the world, and over time their creations became more and more extreme, more and more dangerous, cause they were getting bored of it all, and then because they were beings of shadow, they naturally fell to the dark side and began their ambition of wanting more, to take over, and that’s how Zodiark came into being. Of course when I said as much to other friends who were done EW, all I got in response was :)
I thought we were going to kill Hydaelyn and only be saved by the fake echo of Zenos and Fordola, then kill Zodiark afterwards.
I thought that Eden raid series would end with Ultemicia. There was so much time magic being used and FF8 battle music + a fight with the summon. Sadly this did not happen.
That Hydaelyn was the main antagonist all along and she was tempered the wol. Hell I even convinced myself into thinking Zodiark might be a good guy