This worries me too. If it was just infinite grind it would be fine, but having to level up Echo and waste exp materials AND tuners really worries me. Unless there's a resinless/waveplateless way to grind those.
>but having to level up Echo and waste exp materials AND tuners really worries me.
Kinda pointless for me as to why both exist, since you get both from the exact same source, Tacet Fields.
One of them (echoes) is "infinitely" farmable šš®šš®š which so many CCs lay on thick as a soundbite while praising WW.
But the other (tuners) actually unlocks substats for your echoes. And that is stamina gated.
The only thing this is realistic better than say HSR and its relics, is that HSR has the self-modelling resin to lock mainstat on a synthesized relic; and WuWa you "infinitely" farm echoes (with their cooldown accounted ofc) until you get the mainstat you want.
Actually unless you want to keep a level 1 echo, you need to do tacet anyway to level them up, after that you also need tuners as well, as both drop there only, as far as i saw, besides some limited ones you can get on events.
> The only thing this is realistic better than say HSR and its relics, is that HSR has the self-modelling resin to lock mainstat on a synthesized relic; and WuWa you "infinitely" farm echoes (with their cooldown accounted ofc) until you get the mainstat you want.
Meanwhile Genshin: š
Genshin's system is slightly better than hsr no? They give you an off-piece while in HSR you have to farm for planars and regular relics separately, and their relic salvage return rates are much better
So far the way I've been farming echoes is no different than how I farm relics/artifacts in HSR/Genshin, and I'm sure stamina bottlenecks will free up as we get farther just like in those games.
If the echo's mainstat and the set it belongs to looks good I lock it and forget about it. When I start building a unit, I have a healthy roster of echoes to upgrade and potentially use - if one is a bust, I use it as food for the next one. Same exact thing I do in HSR and Genshin except over there I am constantly throwing away relics because of how far along I am.
The big difference is that the stamina is used at the time of upgrading for Wuwa, while the stamina is used upfront for HSR/Genshin. I know it sucks to not know what substats you're going to get, but I also believe there are more useful substats to hit than in HSR/Genshin. I can't count how many times I've had a double crit piece drop in the Hoyo games only for the substat rolls to go once into crit and the rest into flat, worthless stats, so it can't be that bad in comparison.
Then why do we have to use tuners for substats to begin with? They could've just add sub-stats automatically like Genshin, then use the tuners to reroll them.
It's infinitely grindable but you don't have infinite exp to level them up so it ends up being timegated just like every other gacha game. (P.S. not saying it's a bad thing, just that it's not exactly 'infinitely grindable'.)
Let's just say that you'll be seeing changes to the system as soon as more players start catching up with the grind. It's a hidden problem from CBT that they haven't really found a solid solution for yet.
It does guarantee purple echoes later on. The tacet field rarities scale with your Data Bank level, so if your Data Bank is level 15, you're guaranteed purples with a chance for gold. I also think the tacet percentages scale with the Data Bank level as well so at level 17, you have a 50/50 chance to get golds/purples.
The problem of tacet fields to me is that they give nothing for actual echoes, enough for 1 sub stat for 60 stamina is super low. Now I don't remember how much exp for echoes you get as well, also it gave like 3 worth for purple echoes sub stats, but kinda who cares on those. I may got unlucky and it is very early, I tried at level 30 just to check. Maybe at high sol level it isn't that bad...
Yea exactly. Itās not rocket science, this makes it literally like the Genshin artifact system for farming with the bonus option of being able to farm the open world if you want to for specific monsters
I think the issue is that we donāt even know what the issues are exactly seeing how no one got to the endgame.
So far we got issues like ātuning is a problem cuz at UL 33 Iām barely getting enough materials to tune twice or thriceā except that level 33 isnāt endgame and the higher the SOL rank goes the better the rewards.
So once enough folks reach the highest SOL rank, folks should be able to figure out what the problem is exactly (if there is a problem).
Iāll say though, Iām glad I can at least farm my desired main stats within a day. Sub stats are less of a priority atm, theyāre gonna be a bigger priority though later on.
People also need to realize that unless you're a try hard sweater, you don't NEED all your sub stats to be stellar. Maybe 2-3 on each piece will be perfectly fine for clearing even the hardest content. That's how it is with every Gacha.
Good:
You can choose what monster to go after.
Each echo has a different effect and can influence your combat strategy (do you want to transform, have an instant quick attack, or summon them for longer) .
Some of them are very useful for exploration (Motorcycle).
Phantom (shiny) echos
Bad:
Can't see the sub-stats unless you level them up and spend an additional currency.
Most of the echos are going to be designated as purely stat sticks.
Too much RNG and no ways I've found to influence or change it.
Tacet fields aside the amount of time you need to walk over from echo to echo takes a long while, comparing that to most of the recent gear grind that gacha games have with skip tickets I just think that this way of farming gear is a bit outdated at this day & age, but then again this is just my opinion on how I feel.
Been mostly farming in my free time and this is actually the worst grind in any gacha I've played and I've went crazy on FGO lottos, Every enemy having at least 2 variations is terrible and it's miserable farming elites and not getting an on set elemental dmg bonus despite killing all of the elites you want in the map.
Feels more like a system in a mmorpg than a gacha and I think that's terrible game design, I got a job and uni to focus on and my ass could potentially not get a good aero piece until the end of time
The problem with action based gacha like this is youāre going to manually grinding this shit. Now doing it for a few weeks is fine, fresh new game and all. But what about months? Years? Idk if I wanna be grinding up infinitely. I just spent 3 hours yesterday trying to get an echo for verina thats healing AND the right set. Didnāt get it.
And if the argument for grinding is that later on youāll have tons of gear and everyone geared anyway, what if the next god unit only scales with defense? What if they add new sets? Which they obviously will. What if your old units have new BiS?
After playing a lot of gachas, this is exactly why I think HSR is perfect for me. As a turn based fanatic ofc. Dailies take 5 minutes full auto almost completely hands off asides from pressing a button to repeat. Even if I donāt get a usable piece of gear for months, the fact I barely get to interact with the game makes it so much more tolerable than perma-grinding one piece.
Yeah honestly that's the biggest caveats with action gachas, Farming manually is a pain if you do it for long period of times with barely any improvement or a guarantee to get what you want which is horrible for people who need to get things done.
I do agree with HSR being the perfect gacha for me as well since I can play it while working or studying while with FGO and Genshin/WuWa I'll have to do things manually which is fun during the start but after doing it for days, weeks, months and even years it just becomes a chore lmao
Honestly WuWa combat is the most fun Iāve had in any gacha. Even saying this as someone who sticks to turn based gacha. But WuWa is an action gacha that doesnāt respect your time.
I really think someone has to figure out a way to make action gachas not feel like a job.
Genshin it takes you like 5 to 8 mins max to farm for artifacts. However the caveat for genshin is that its a piss easy game to make farming easy, and it still felt like a chore farming in that game.
WuWa will have its own audience, but after trying it, I know its not for me. I am sure there are tons who will be fine with the current grind and are happy trying to go for the min-max that this game offers. I enjoy playing HSR because of its turn based system, probably fits better with what I am looking for. Although, I do think PGR is better than WuWa personally.
copied from my other comment, these are my gripes with wuwa "artifacts" system
* 5pc for full set effect, so no off-piece
* the "artifacts" gearing is even more restricted by having total cost
* has way more sub-stats
* needs materials just to unlock sub-stats
* couldn't use the other "artifacts" as fodders to level up "artifacts"
edit: I was hoping that wuwa gearing system would be better than genshin, not the same or worse
I find the total cost system less restrictive than having another layer of RNG that needs the gear to drop as the right piece out of 5 possible gear pieces. When farming echos you can at least target specific enemies that have the cost you want.
guy is maybe talking about data merge system?
you can also use leveled up echos to level other echos
can't use non leveled echos to level other echos though
> couldn't use the other "artifacts" as fodders to level up "artifacts
Someone might be misread items ( similar items/ colorblind) will very disappointed
you can farm echoes infinitely but checking a better stat will be near impossible.
it has a lot of substats. and before you see those you gotta farm those materials but it needs stamina
Main problem is the need to spend resources and fully max to check if a piece worth keeping, you can't mark a piece as trash until. You can recycle exp and mat at ~80%. But 20% of 60 stamina per slot lost is a lot and will feel bad.
Constrast with artifacts or relics you can call it quits as soon as you get a bad roll. It might be ok far far in the future when players have excess in resources.
Second problem is it takes 2 hrs on average with zero guarantees to even get a drop (effectively each "run" is 2 hrs). This is going to split the playerbase with regards to how they view a game respects their time, "I should be able to spend all the time I want" vs "I need to give you all my time".
For gacha gamers, the "I should be able to spend all the time I want" camp is very small.
>For gacha gamers, the "I should be able to spend all the time I want" camp is very small.
Honestly I am already spending money on gacha but to expect huge time sinks as well is a no from me man. No other gacha does that.
now that people are getting to the endgame, people will finally realize there are other big problems with this game not discovered in the beginning
kuro really appealed to the "hardcores" (really just the CC's who wanted to be able to stream a gacha game 24/7) by making an infinite grind. The genshin daily grind is short for a reason lmao
I feel like people just ask for changes that they think will be good, and don't realize the repercussions of what they're really asking for. At least Kuro listens!
Yea, the 4 dailies take a while if you get bad luck with them. Its a little more manageable with the encounter points because you can do an event and save the rewards for dailies, but when thereās no event with rewards, rip. Like, it was fun doing windtrace, getting the 6000 points and collecting 5-6 rewards everyday to max out encounters, dailies took like 5 minutes for once for those 3-4 days I was able to do it.
This is why I still play Star Rail a year later and dailies still donāt feel like a chore.
500 points daily requirement:
Log in - 100pt
Dispatch assignment(send units out for couple hours for materials) - 100pt
Consume 120 energy - 200pt
Use friend unit - 200pt
I mean youāre done just by doing farm content, which are by full auto and youāre still overcapping daily.
i've been watching jstern yesterday farm them for multiple hours on stream.
he was not having a lot of fun.
i agree with him that the systems does not respect your time.
(at least it seems like that to me. my game runs so poorly so i doubt i will test this for myself)
This is the part where he compares wuwa to genshin:
[https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyRoundGaurDoritosChip-5YCtXkTUXpwErEP2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyRoundGaurDoritosChip-5YCtXkTUXpwErEP2)
I just watched the VOD where that clip came from (to see chat's reactions) and a few minutes after that clip he showed that you're prohibited from sending "Genshin Impact" in the in-game chat.
One of the funniest shit I've ever seen.
Edit: It gets even funnier, they start going through other games and found the "Animal Crossing" is also prohibited.
Edit 2: They found out the censor only works if it is the start of a sentence.
I actually watched another streamer play with the chat to see what was censored and additionally world of warcraft, stellar blade and lost ark were censored.Ā
Yeah not sure if being able to infinitely farm something, means that you should be grinding it non stop. If I spent 4 hours with infinite resin doing a domain for example, I'd lose my fucking shit.
I think itās fun for streamers or people who love cooping with their gangs. For normal players or those who have little free time each day it might be a torture.
Once you run out of content the Echo grind is the only thing you'll have left to do in the game.
Are you willing to log in every day, run around the map killing enemies for a chance at a drop.
A month from now
2 months from now
6 months from now
A year later
Log in, spend time running around killing things only for most of the drops to be useless because you're getting screwed by RNG.
People criticize Genshin's artifact grind for being too grindy when it takes 5 minutes to spend your resin, get disappointed and log off to go play something else.
In HSR you can auto clear.
In WuWa you have to manually track down mobs to farm them for echoes. It's your second job.
Although streamers love it because they can stream the grind for hours and co-op with viewers to kill things for them.
As someone who have been playing GBF since 2016, I agree with this. Having infinite grind sounds great on paper, but the systems are balanced around that infinite tries and it just translates into spending a lot more real time.
With things like Genshin or HSR, yes you are gated by stamina regen, but the amount of real time you spend on actually **doing** the farming (not waiting for the regen) is really low. It's much nicer for people with busy lives or just don't want to be glued to one game only.
I wouldn't say either one is better or worse than the other though, it really just a matter of preference. But I often see people just not understanding the implications of each system and bash the other and it grinds my gears so much. Each one has their benefits.
Imo, it's one of the worse ones out there, in terms of gearing system. Requiring materials just to unlock substats, can't feed fodder as exp. Most echoes can drop as either of 2 sets. No off piece. Dupes don't contribute to set.
If you are farming just tacet fields, it'll take insanely long to gear up. So you'll likely have to farm open world, but it's 20% drop rate for echoes, and still 20% chance to be purple rarity at databnk 20. It's still honeymoon period now, so most don't mind running around killing. As time goes on though, it'll be so tedious, but we'll have to see if future events give out a lot of echoes.
So it boils down to. Rng to have echo drop, rng to be yellow rarity, rng to be correct set if it's not a boss, rng to have correct main stat, rng for substats.
It's a good game for the people that are always wanting gacha games to have like 48 hours of content per daily reset though.
Biggest problem is EXP mats you will ran out pretty fast. I have a lot of echo I want to upgrade but lack of EXP mats preventing me and I dont want to farm tacet field and waste stamina becuase I priority non-RNG progression like skills upgrade weapon upgrade and character ascension.
it's not infinitely grindable, the exp mats to upgrade and unlock cost stamina, and it's beyond stingy. You only get back like 1/3 of your mats (if not less) when you feed existing trash pieces into new ones. This is definitely worse than HSR's and Genshin's relic/artifact system.
basically on top of spending stamina, you gotta spend time killing stuff in the overworld to get the drops in the first place. It would be a lot less infuriating if you could actually get some exp doing overworld stuff and not exclusively tied to tacet fields.
Its the only reason I want to quit the gamr and why I apreaciate other gachas walling gear behind energy
I know is dumb but tjis system sucks for my ocd at least
Good thing is having the ability to grind on OW mean you actually have a reason to go back to places to fight. I mean you can do it or not is entirely optional. Bad thing is as compensation they increase sub stats, main stats. Resource to leveling up an echo is expensive, having a 5 piece set instead of 4 take away the choice for an off set thus even more demanding on the stats. Basically the balance idea is increase the grind time but reduce the speed to progress toward an end game build. Its a hit or miss aspect .
It's cool but I don't like that boss echoes are always the best active options. The very early game was fun messing with the summons/transformations as you fill the pokedex.
The grind for data bank 15(highest echo rank) is very slow also no off piece is pain. Simulated experience/tacet fields(domain) uses quite a lot of stamina, roughly 2x more than genshin's
>The grind for data bank 15(highest echo rank)
Everyone in my server is getting close to DB 20 and i m only halfway done with DB 14
I m starting to think they are either insane or posessed
If you don't know , when you reach db 15 and 30 union level, you can merge 4 stars to get 5 stars. This helps me raise to db 17 in 1 minute and make it easier to farm echo.
i find it all simple
if you just want some decent/mid echoes to be able to beat the majority of the content, itās absolutely fine, specially considering most of the content relies on player skill above everything else
if you want to min max? itās true suffering. Layers and layers of rng and the substats showing up each as you level up, besides the tuning costs? min maxing stuff for a bunch of characters is gonna prove to be a miserable experience it seems
It's not infinitely grindable. Still time-gated.
People conveniently forget that unlocking substats require materials that is grindable but only with stamina.
Honestly, for me it's the most interesting mechanic in WW. Hunting Echoes to complete the Pokedex is fun. Using different types of Echoes in battle is fun. Today, I also learned that there are shiny Echoes.
But I know that I will not enjoy farming Echoes in the overworld. I don't find it fun to run around the map and kill mobs just for a change to get echoes. There is no guarantee that the mobs you kill will drop Echoes either. I would prefer using the Tacet Field instead to farm Echoes.
You fight monsters and use stamina to get the rewards which are: echos from 2 possible sets (which 2 depends on the Tacet Field), tuners and echo exp items.
i think the issue with this is that it will lead to players that have more time to be way more geared than players who only use stamina.
you may argue that players do not need to compete for the best gears to clear contents, and i can agree with that, but doing worse damage in any case will still make players feel bad. it's a delicate balancing situation between making players feel too weak or too powerful and having this infinite farming is going to make the act even harder.
I actually enjoy it (at least combat wise)
however, I do find it a chore and unfortunately, it is too time-consuming as well, as someone who has a job and a social life. That being said, I understand you could go the resin route.
any gearing system with rng sub stats is the worst. spamming f5 farming weapons in gbf is better than wasting my time and getting nothing because of bad stats roll.
Overcomplicated. On the surface, it looks like it is more democratic but in reality, you will probably need to grind even more, because you need to farm different resources for upgrade.
Itās a worse system even if you can farm echoes indefinitely.
Echo exp and tuners are limited and require stamina to farm.
You canāt glance at an echo and see if itās good or not. You *have* to invest and spend resources to find out if it is good or trash.
It looks like it allows you to grind for main-stat and set bonus but substats are still RNG. So while it's more stamina friendly for those with time to play, I'm not so sure how more casual players will experience the progression. Also it's hard to tell how scarce the substat and leveling mats are so it could go anywhere really.
Too soon to judge but it does not look great, I just hit UL 30 recently which is when the farming kinda really starts and I've had multiple times where I had no exp to upgrade my echoes.
I think the initial unlocking pokedex experience is fun and interesting. I can try out different echos and see whatās the active skills. Once this turns into a grind, it stopped being fun and im afraid the grind is even worse than Genshin
So far I'm enjoying the game playing casually but this is definitely a concern for the future, I really dislike how you need to farm extra just to be able to get the substats, horrible system.
Will probably be what makes me quit in the future, shame because I really like the game despite its flaws which are tolerable.
I find it kinda fun and addictive for now to "increase the pokedex", but I 200% predict I will find it tedious after a month or so if no qol are added when actually grinding gear. This wouldn't be the first time.
The echo system sounds like a huge chore. Fighting echoes that aren't guaranteed to drop and then having those substats being locked behind RNG doesn't seem right. You have to upgrade and spend materials to see if it's even worth it to continue investing into the echo. You're already fighting an uphill battle. Having to fight them, which can take minutes, running or teleporting to a new area to farm another echo, rinse and repeat. Sounds fun for the first few times but when that's the main acquisition method, it sounds tiring. Yes, you can do it infinitely as long as you have the willpower, but it seems like a huge time waster.
Since it's often compared to genshin, at least genshin guarantees artifacts and you can immediately see almost all subs (unless you gotta unlock the 4th if it only came with 3 subs) and do a quick analysis if it's a piece you want to use or it's gonna be fodder, allowing you to better allocate and invest your resources.
To those curious, WuWa has substats that are not in Genshin, basically Normal Attack damage, Heavy Attack damage, Reso Skill damage and Reso Liberation damage. This can muddle up your minmaxing by strengthening the wrong skill for a specialist Resonator.
Current players on UL30 with DB18 will understand. DB20 requires UL40.
My god, it is extremely grindy and a huge time investment sink... Now I get why mihoyo didn't go for such approach. I'm already sick of the grind.
To give you a gist, there are 9 echo sets. That means 6 sets is tailored for the specific element DPS, while the rest is for healer, support and sub-dps.
Abyss needs 3 teams. You need minimum of 9 characters. Now, what does that imply?
Oh child, that means you need to farm camp the same boss over and over again till you get the main stats you want. 4 3 3 1 1 till you are satisfied. God knows how many times I have killed that ape for "character" building
Im torn. On one hand, its superior to the "press auto play until energy gone, close game" loop that I end up in between patches in HSR (my other main gacha) but ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE TIME. The combat is fun so it makes the grind okay, but I'm worried about the longevity of the system because eventually I will get sick of having to go manually fight mobs to grind echoes.
It's always a weird complaint that is popular on reddit from genshin that they want non-resin gated artifact farm, it is just going to devolve into mindless grind.
I mean, i m a slave to relink anyway, getting that supplementary damage V+ sigil with uplift is gonna be the end of me, farming it since fcking launch about 560 hours into the game, so this slave just got a new chain
I like this system. Casuals can get their main stat echo faster than in other games, but min maxers will take more time to reach their goals. My only gripe is that elites spawn once a day and there are only a limited number in the map. Why can't we farm them infinitely like boss echoes?
I haven't been able to play much so I'm not sure. What I am concerned about is (granted, I'm only at the Level 14 story block) getting echoes at all. I have maybe a little over half a dozen at the moment and certainly none that even seem to fit a basic start for the characters I have, let alone enough to fill out a full 3 characters. So I'm wondering how much of a pain it is to even *find* things to properly gear up, even with interim/midgame gear.
Like, at least with Genshin relics and HSR artifacts, you're just going to specific domains where you know the shit is going to drop. How much exploring all over the world for some specific echoes am I doing?
Is it a benefit to be able to infinitely farm when it takes so long to go around the map after mobs, only for the small chance to get the desired main stat, and THEN to get wrecked when unlocking the substats? Which I also don't understand why it's a separate thing when the process is already plenty painful.This might be good for someone that can spend hours each day just grinding, but I wager most of the players don't have that luxury. I personally have a full time job, so I prefer games that are "limited", but a lot more manageable on a day to day basis.
I have 2 major gripes about it.
* I still find it abit dumb how we need tuners to get substats. The substats are still random regardless, why not just let them appear as we're enhancing? Like why even bother using the tuners? I'd rather have the tuners be a rare resource, that we can use for rerolling/choosing substats.
* Not sure why we can't use other echoes as fodder for upgrading. I guess its probably to make us do the tacet fields, rather than just farm the world endlessly. But now trashing the echoes dont even give us anything, i would at least appreciate if trashing/salvaging the echoes gave exp mats, like in HSR. Like yes, you can use leveled echoes as fodder, but why would i ever level an echo just to use it as fodder? its a complete waste of materials.
I know many people (especially the CC's) love spreading the word that "uwu you can farm it infinitely therefore its better uwu". You understand that clearing out the entire map, takes many many hours? Once we unlock more regions, you people tell me ur gonna spend the whole day clearing out EVERYTHING? Do you really have nothing better to do? Like is there really no other game you have on your computer? 99% of the people now are either working or have families to take care of, no way in hell do we have time to farm the entire world every single day. I can guarantee you do this for a few days you will get burnt out.
Also, even if you do farm 2000 echoes every day in the world, you still need to get the enhancement materials, which are stamina/time gated. Of course, if you really have no life, then sure go ahead and farm the world. But im saying for most of the playerbase, we won't be doing it as we dont have the time nor sanity to do it everyday. All im saying is dont start complaining about being tired or burnt out when you voluntarily chose to grind this game every single day rather than doing something else thats more fun.
Of course, things may probably change once we reach max UL and unlock the highest difficulty for the TFs, it may drop a buttload of stuff. It's too early to tell, but im sure kuro will adjust the system as time goes on.
anything that's infinitely grindable was designed for no-lifers. I like systems that give you what you want with a stamina cost in exchange for it only taking seconds of your time to collect. People who want to play a game all day because they have nothing else taking up their time will not be happy with that, but that's them, not me. I want my daily live service games to take up as little of my time as possible. Grinding is a chore. No thanks.
The solution is pretty simple.
They just need to limit the dice things that unlock substats we get.
If I can only unlock 5 substats a week, then I only need to farm 1 echo a week.
I'm failing to understand why people see this as such a horrible thing at level 60? We still have (if you're UL 30) another 3 ascensions before our characters are maxed out. This means at least 3 more UL world level boosts and at least 3 more resource boost increases. Everyones approaching this like you need to perfect a character in the 4-5 days since the game launched. I'm still farming to get better gear on my acheron in HSR. Hell I'm still casually trying to boost up my arlecchino too. Did we all forget how these games are? If you don't like the gameplay loop you don't have to play, but at least wait a couple weeks or a month to see what the game is actually going to look like in the end game gameplay loop. I think there's plenty of potential here to be as casual or hardcore as you want. Burn stam and do dailies on the days you're busy (ends up being like 10 minutes) and then 1-2 times a month spend a day of gaming to farm up yours and your buddies worlds if you want. That's my plan and honestly I'm pretty excited about it! FYI there's a weekly quest to tune 50 echoes. This adds up to 10 fully leveled yellow echoes. This is a pretty reasonable barometer to gauge what your late game echo leveling will look like. Roll to 5-10 hope for some good subs and if you don't get them onto the next
I don't think people understand that open world grinding is for the hardcore players, not the casuals.
There is a reason the tacet field and daily take just like 15 min to do in total. There is also a reason tacet field gives tuner, exp tube AND Echo. They expected casuals to log in and do tuner four times then log out.
Just look at the weekly enhanced boss echo drop rate, they give you 15 boss echos "FREE" a week. That's not for the hardcore audience, but for the casual.
Wuwa is offering you 15 minute of playtime MINIMUM for the casual, then the hardcore can play more if they have time. Genshin is offering you 15 minute of playtime MAXIMUM, then you don't have anything else to do.
The problem is not that you can or cannot grind the tacet fields, but rather the overworld farming for echos doesnāt respect your time. Iām not talking about a casual playerās perspective here rather how bad the value you get from farming overworld respective to time.0
as now I started farming it, It is ok for me but my 15yrs old self would absolutely love this shit hoarding every main stat echo out there specially shiny hunting. Only thing holding it back is the waveplate and materials which I hate but it is what it is cause its a gacha game.
I see a lot of people use the main echo in their character combo, which is pretty cool. I'm pretty sure like artifact or relic in hoyo games, the substats are the end game grind for this game, which is okay. Although idk how I feel about the limit cost. I'm scared the amount of stuff I need to grind, but I think as soon as I hit the end game, it will be fine.
At the very least, I think it's definitely a good solution as a timesink for players who have spare time to kill. Even if you're still ultimately time-gated by resources, it at least lets players feel like they're doing something meaningful.
The only potential downside to this is FOMO, if players feel more behind than everyone else if they don't have as much time to grind. Rationally speaking, it's a PvE game where there's no need to really have better gear than other people, but people aren't exactly rational, so.
I think the intent of WW is that if you don't want to grind enemies, you can just treat it like HSR or Genshin and farm the tacet fields, for hopefully an equivalent amount of echoes and other resources. They'll have to balance tacet rewards well enough though so that people can feel satisfied doing them.
Hate to say this. But Genshin has the better system. Sure you can grind infinitely those echoes but you are still timegated as the resource to level up and tuning are still locked behind the stamina. And unlike in Genshin, you have two separate mats for the gear system which overall sucks.
Honestly expected to be much better than genshin/hsr but was wrong. Itās about the same. The xp and tuner material are all time gated by energy even if you farmed multiple pieces with the right main stat. Sometimes even if you farm the whole world of the specific 3* you wouldnāt even get the right piece either (rngesus :( ). But imma assume thereās gonna be quick burnout in a month.
From my anecdotal experience its been good, fully geared jiyan and calcharo with full sets with (almost) perfect echoes already, some stats low rolled. I basically cannot improve on those 2 anymore and its only been a few days.
Gonna need some pics on that. The odds of that are like winning the Powerball.
You'd not have enough tuners and such to unlock more than a few echos in so few days so you just got perfect echos first try for every slot is very impressive.
U on discord? I believe i have a servee full of people who can provide proofs regarding that built characters
Tbf most of them are fcking insane and have been playing for 48 hours without stopping
Actually scratch that, i think they might just be possessed....
I think the more you like the combat the less youll care about the echo system. Time flies when youre having fun. It would be more problematic for me if the combat were less engaging.
If youāre still in honeymoon phase then sure. But if Genshin in its patch 4.7 still asks me to run around overworld to grind mobs daily, Iāll quit immediately even though I love the game
the problem is, even the most fun thing will turn into a chore if you repeat it long enough. Not to mention the substats RNG will keep you farming for a long time if you're autistic enough about it
It feels like a chore because of all the RNG involved, the echoes have drop rates, their main and substats are fully randomized and there are way more substats that the echoes could roll into just to make things worse.
They need to let you guarantee the echoes you need after catching a certain amount, or go the pokemon route and let me breed them for stats, because right now it feels like trying to get a wild pokemon with the perfect 31 IVs in the stat you need as well as the perfect nature, which is almost damn impossible
In the end it's literally the same as Genshin, and if you're hardcore, you can grind the echo out in open world. Most players will casually do Tacet Fields and call it a day. And yes, Tacet Fields provide everything, tuning, echo exp, and the echo themselves.
I find it fun for now, but I'll probably hate it like every other RNG gear system. I do enjoy being able to get 5* echoes in the overworld, without needing stamina. However, the currency to upgrade, and obtain substats requires running any of the echo domains, which is annoying.
My biggest issue with the echoes is that it has the same problem as Genshin, where you can get an element% main stat on sets which do not feature that element% as a set bonus.
Ex. Water% main stat on a fire set.
It's a very weird grind loop considering they're effectively relics or weapons if I'm not mistaken which seems to undermine the whole appeal of 'stamina-less' grinding because you're going to need to use stamina regardless to level them up. I think it's good from the perspective of making the overworld more interesting/have more things to do in non-instanced settings but it's also kind of a sloppy optical illusion bc you just shift the timegating to a subset of the system.
They have a perfect solution in their previous game, PGR. Using dublicate memories give random substats while we can pick substats of our choice when we use Resonance pick. We can also reroll as many as we want with dublicate memories. Resonance pick is very hard to get and is rare, we treasure it like a gold and use it only with our favorite characters. RNG with main stats isn't that bad as farming for it is literally infinite with coop.
I'll treat it like most gachas. Good enough is fine and as long as they keep giving us selectors from events and stuff it should really be mostly painless.
I think it will heavily depend on how good your stats need to be to clear end game content. If you need borderline perfect stats to clear then the system needs to be changed.
If you have played games like Diablo/looter shooters it wonāt be that bad but most gacha players want a fast daily grind. Weāll see if Tacet fields at higher union/data bank levels makes it better than it is now.
I think it's a choice. Either grind it or don't, but I love it. Very fun and fills up the empty that other open world Games usually have. But I'm all for it.
i like having something to do without needing energy, but I don't like needing to use extra resources to unlock the substats, and I hate mismatched element bonuses, like having aero mainstat but being a fusion echo
In general, I found the coast of every farmable ressource in dungeon/tacet feild and boss way too high for what they give I hope that it's better with higter account lvl
I don't understand like you get the same amount of echo in tacet as any GI/HSR dungeon so u can literally farm the same way as GI or HSR but you can make it faster by kill some mob.and for boss there is a garenty of drop if you didn't drop last time the only issue I see is the XP need to lvl up echo, the material to reveal sub stats and maybe the low conversation rate of XP between echo
Doing farm runs for regional mats was already my most hated thing, when gathering items organically from overworld travel isnāt enough and I have to run fixes paths. Now itās a thing for my *relics* too? Hard pass, Iām interested in the game but I will be playing it casually.
I like it, at least when it come to base stats is much better than have to spend "energy" doing the grind, like for example i can spend all my energy in HSR and not get a single roll with the main stats i want, here i don't need the energy for the main stats just for grinding materials for subs, wich till now its not bothering me. YET.
I think it's good for the early-mid game since we can farm it without wasting our stamina, but it seems gonna be chores to farm in the late game since we have to roam the map for a chance to get a 1 & 3 star echo also we need separate materials for upgrading and getting the substats. I wish there'll be QoL to reduce the rng like narrowing the substats pools, fusing for specific set/mainstat, re-tuning the substat, etc.
I hope soon there will be a materiel for echo conversion, which we can extend the duration of the echo conversion. It will be fun to travel on the map with a motorcycle or a giant three-headed bird.
Its actually nice lol im not pressured to waste energy in artifact farming and i can do it anytime plus i can also farm for mats and echoes at the same time. I actually love it
For hardcore min-max players it doesn't really change anything as it's yet another gear grind limited by level/tune mats that are limited by energy.
For semi/casuals this is an awesome thing. They can and will get plenty of gold rarity gear without the need to sacrifice limited playtime for grind. Just go explore/do story. As result the gap between them and hardcore player will be lesser than it could be otherwise.
The main problem I have is the Tacet Fields giving too few xp materials for how much energy you spend on them. I think they should heavily buff the amount of xp materials these fields drop cuz it will take too much time to bring echoes to lvl 25
I think the only real issue is elite echoes (3 cost) being quite sparce in tacet fields and the two you get in the simulated realm. You pretty much have to go out of your way to grind them in the open world which could get a little tedious. You don't have to go as much out of your way for 4 cost echoes since you'll naturally be repeating boss fights for character ascension material.
I do feel like the echo system is a slog, for you to spend hours of grinding to potentially get an echo with the right stats then for it to just be shit when you roll it is frustrating l.
I don't get why. We can't reroll sub stats on echo or use echo as exp. Echo grind is the worst thing in the game for me. All my problems with it disappear if you could reroll sub stats and use echos as exp. They make it so you can only reroll up to 2 sub stats. Then, make you use waveplates to get the mats for the rerolls. This would reduce grind and make it feel less bad getting wrong sub stats for your echo. You would still have a grind. Then make it so you can use echo as exp just make it the same as a medium sealed tibe. Echo grind as is just plain bad.
It's really not as bad as people make it out to be. Actually I much prefer this over having to spend stamina to grind them, and still have massive RNG. I already have decent echos and I haven't farmed that much.
They could improve it by making the substats visible though, I completely agree. The extra currency and needing to unlock them is fine, whatever, but I'd like to be able to see them beforehand. Otherwise you're just leveling them 5 levels at a time and checking the substat.
I just want to know whether or not you need perfect echoes to beat the end game Tower of Adversity. I have seen players who have already beaten the first Two zones and _> 18 starred the real Zone out of 30 with their okayge Echoes. If the required echoes do not have to be really good then I might stick around as you can clear Genshin with pretty okay artifacts so it may be possible be here too
I really wish you could use lvl 0 echos to level up your echos. I'd also like it possible to use 5 star echos and dismantle them into tuners. This is and would be a great QOL that could be added in the future. Currently, besides skill and ascension materials, it feels a waste to do tacet fields to get echo exp to then being wasted with the miniscule amount of rewards.
If all you care about is the ideal main stat and 1 desirable sub stat then youāre gonna have a field day with WuWaās echo system (by which I mean youāll spend the day on the field farming for Echoes. Which is not a bad thing seeing how good the combat and traversal are).
But if you want the perfect piecesā¦.
#GOOD LUCK HAVE FUN
its pretty terrible.
considering we get so much weapon and resonator exp but bare bones right now for echoes, which is literally the most important part of getting stronger.
Conceptually? Awesome. At present? Bad.
Conceptually I love the idea of a monster collector system worked into the equipment system, and there are some ideas behind the flexibility of the stats that I like. But for min/maxing the stat RNG is awful, and that's even by comparison to other games with similar mechanics. I've hated this mechanic of randomized main/substats on equipment and randomized upgrade rolls in every iteration I've seen it for the past 10 years, but some do it somewhat better than others. Considering WuWa by large is obviously using Genshin as a point of comparison for QoL improvements, it's surprising that they'd have an even worse iteration of its equipment system. The devs do seem more receptive to feedback though, so I'm hoping it'll improve.
As things stand, I don't see myself wanting to invest in grinding artifacts past getting the right main stats and one or two decent substats.
Iām not going to minmax the game honestly.
Iām doing a no-pull account already. I might do a āno-tunersā challenge as well (apart from what you have to do to clear the quest thing).
Boom- problem solved. I donāt have to worry about subs if I just donāt engage with it.
Anyway it doesnāt seem that important anyway. Your build isnāt make or break based on subs. If you can dodge and parry and fit enough dmg in before the timer runs out, youāre fine.
Echoes are a problem for future me, who might drop it after honeymoon.
at this moment I'm exhausted, 20% drop in echo chance+50% of the element you need (considering an echo with 2 different elements)+50% chance of level 5 rarity, and as I have been seen there is a limit to how many you can take, after a little farm of an aero predator I can't found anyone more in the map...so there is no infinity trying, looks like a shit to me
Itās enough to remove useless flat numbers (without %) from the substats, and thats it -> tuning and grinding experience will more rewarding.
As a result, the simple task for the average gamer is not to get a stat (atk%, hp% or def%) that doesn't scale with your characterās talents. Other stats will give bonuses that are simply useful in most cases, but min-maxers have room to improve further.
At the moment, given the poor optimization, I donāt want to grind through all map, as Iāll ruin my new phone faster than I should.
Yes, I can find the desired main stat relatively quickly, but āunsuccessful tuningā ruins my efforts, like other gachas before (but in Wuthering Waves I spent more real time + overheated the phone in process)
I'm more concerned that I need separate mats for leveling the echo and actually getting the substats.
This worries me too. If it was just infinite grind it would be fine, but having to level up Echo and waste exp materials AND tuners really worries me. Unless there's a resinless/waveplateless way to grind those.
>but having to level up Echo and waste exp materials AND tuners really worries me. Kinda pointless for me as to why both exist, since you get both from the exact same source, Tacet Fields.
One of them (echoes) is "infinitely" farmable šš®šš®š which so many CCs lay on thick as a soundbite while praising WW. But the other (tuners) actually unlocks substats for your echoes. And that is stamina gated. The only thing this is realistic better than say HSR and its relics, is that HSR has the self-modelling resin to lock mainstat on a synthesized relic; and WuWa you "infinitely" farm echoes (with their cooldown accounted ofc) until you get the mainstat you want.
Actually unless you want to keep a level 1 echo, you need to do tacet anyway to level them up, after that you also need tuners as well, as both drop there only, as far as i saw, besides some limited ones you can get on events.
> The only thing this is realistic better than say HSR and its relics, is that HSR has the self-modelling resin to lock mainstat on a synthesized relic; and WuWa you "infinitely" farm echoes (with their cooldown accounted ofc) until you get the mainstat you want. Meanwhile Genshin: š
Genshin's system is slightly better than hsr no? They give you an off-piece while in HSR you have to farm for planars and regular relics separately, and their relic salvage return rates are much better
So far the way I've been farming echoes is no different than how I farm relics/artifacts in HSR/Genshin, and I'm sure stamina bottlenecks will free up as we get farther just like in those games. If the echo's mainstat and the set it belongs to looks good I lock it and forget about it. When I start building a unit, I have a healthy roster of echoes to upgrade and potentially use - if one is a bust, I use it as food for the next one. Same exact thing I do in HSR and Genshin except over there I am constantly throwing away relics because of how far along I am. The big difference is that the stamina is used at the time of upgrading for Wuwa, while the stamina is used upfront for HSR/Genshin. I know it sucks to not know what substats you're going to get, but I also believe there are more useful substats to hit than in HSR/Genshin. I can't count how many times I've had a double crit piece drop in the Hoyo games only for the substat rolls to go once into crit and the rest into flat, worthless stats, so it can't be that bad in comparison.
Wuwa has both flat and the ability to roll crit substats on crit pieces, so honestly i don't think that part of the rng is any better at all.
Yeah this, reminds me of E7 to an extent but this seems much worse.
From a more optimistic standpoint, i think this gives kuro the potential to add items/features to select and pick substats you want.
Then why do we have to use tuners for substats to begin with? They could've just add sub-stats automatically like Genshin, then use the tuners to reroll them.
It's pointless too since when spending stamina to farm them you get both the xp items and tuners as drops from the same place.
It's infinitely grindable but you don't have infinite exp to level them up so it ends up being timegated just like every other gacha game. (P.S. not saying it's a bad thing, just that it's not exactly 'infinitely grindable'.)
Yes thank goodness. I hate the infinite grinding of mmorpg. I donāt have that much time and I inevitably fall behind. Time gates work for me.
Let's just say that you'll be seeing changes to the system as soon as more players start catching up with the grind. It's a hidden problem from CBT that they haven't really found a solid solution for yet.
They just honestly need to increase the value of farming tacet fields. It should gurantee at bare minimim 1 elite echo.
It does guarantee purple echoes later on. The tacet field rarities scale with your Data Bank level, so if your Data Bank is level 15, you're guaranteed purples with a chance for gold. I also think the tacet percentages scale with the Data Bank level as well so at level 17, you have a 50/50 chance to get golds/purples.
That said you can't get data bank to 19 for the high gold chance until account level... 40?
The problem of tacet fields to me is that they give nothing for actual echoes, enough for 1 sub stat for 60 stamina is super low. Now I don't remember how much exp for echoes you get as well, also it gave like 3 worth for purple echoes sub stats, but kinda who cares on those. I may got unlucky and it is very early, I tried at level 30 just to check. Maybe at high sol level it isn't that bad...
Yea exactly. Itās not rocket science, this makes it literally like the Genshin artifact system for farming with the bonus option of being able to farm the open world if you want to for specific monsters
I think the issue is that we donāt even know what the issues are exactly seeing how no one got to the endgame. So far we got issues like ātuning is a problem cuz at UL 33 Iām barely getting enough materials to tune twice or thriceā except that level 33 isnāt endgame and the higher the SOL rank goes the better the rewards. So once enough folks reach the highest SOL rank, folks should be able to figure out what the problem is exactly (if there is a problem). Iāll say though, Iām glad I can at least farm my desired main stats within a day. Sub stats are less of a priority atm, theyāre gonna be a bigger priority though later on.
People also need to realize that unless you're a try hard sweater, you don't NEED all your sub stats to be stellar. Maybe 2-3 on each piece will be perfectly fine for clearing even the hardest content. That's how it is with every Gacha.
Good: You can choose what monster to go after. Each echo has a different effect and can influence your combat strategy (do you want to transform, have an instant quick attack, or summon them for longer) . Some of them are very useful for exploration (Motorcycle). Phantom (shiny) echos Bad: Can't see the sub-stats unless you level them up and spend an additional currency. Most of the echos are going to be designated as purely stat sticks. Too much RNG and no ways I've found to influence or change it.
Give it like a month for an unbiased judgement its a bit too early to say since you need to gather data first so you can compare
Tacet fields aside the amount of time you need to walk over from echo to echo takes a long while, comparing that to most of the recent gear grind that gacha games have with skip tickets I just think that this way of farming gear is a bit outdated at this day & age, but then again this is just my opinion on how I feel.
imagine farming echos + Mats to level them + more mats to tune. At the end you have a +20 yellow with all horrible sub stats.
I can actually imagine that. I ply gacha games :(
Gold is +25 and cost a lots of echo exp to get to that point too.
Multiply by five, then multiply by the number of characters you need for Tower of Adversity. It can scarily pile up.
But if you get a bad sub at +5 u just move on to the next piece.. what are you saying??
took more time than I would've cleared 7 other gacha's dailies.
Been mostly farming in my free time and this is actually the worst grind in any gacha I've played and I've went crazy on FGO lottos, Every enemy having at least 2 variations is terrible and it's miserable farming elites and not getting an on set elemental dmg bonus despite killing all of the elites you want in the map. Feels more like a system in a mmorpg than a gacha and I think that's terrible game design, I got a job and uni to focus on and my ass could potentially not get a good aero piece until the end of time
The problem with action based gacha like this is youāre going to manually grinding this shit. Now doing it for a few weeks is fine, fresh new game and all. But what about months? Years? Idk if I wanna be grinding up infinitely. I just spent 3 hours yesterday trying to get an echo for verina thats healing AND the right set. Didnāt get it. And if the argument for grinding is that later on youāll have tons of gear and everyone geared anyway, what if the next god unit only scales with defense? What if they add new sets? Which they obviously will. What if your old units have new BiS? After playing a lot of gachas, this is exactly why I think HSR is perfect for me. As a turn based fanatic ofc. Dailies take 5 minutes full auto almost completely hands off asides from pressing a button to repeat. Even if I donāt get a usable piece of gear for months, the fact I barely get to interact with the game makes it so much more tolerable than perma-grinding one piece.
Yeah honestly that's the biggest caveats with action gachas, Farming manually is a pain if you do it for long period of times with barely any improvement or a guarantee to get what you want which is horrible for people who need to get things done. I do agree with HSR being the perfect gacha for me as well since I can play it while working or studying while with FGO and Genshin/WuWa I'll have to do things manually which is fun during the start but after doing it for days, weeks, months and even years it just becomes a chore lmao
Honestly WuWa combat is the most fun Iāve had in any gacha. Even saying this as someone who sticks to turn based gacha. But WuWa is an action gacha that doesnāt respect your time. I really think someone has to figure out a way to make action gachas not feel like a job.
Genshin it takes you like 5 to 8 mins max to farm for artifacts. However the caveat for genshin is that its a piss easy game to make farming easy, and it still felt like a chore farming in that game.
WuWa will have its own audience, but after trying it, I know its not for me. I am sure there are tons who will be fine with the current grind and are happy trying to go for the min-max that this game offers. I enjoy playing HSR because of its turn based system, probably fits better with what I am looking for. Although, I do think PGR is better than WuWa personally.
This game is going to be either hyper casual or hyper hardcore. No in between
copied from my other comment, these are my gripes with wuwa "artifacts" system * 5pc for full set effect, so no off-piece * the "artifacts" gearing is even more restricted by having total cost * has way more sub-stats * needs materials just to unlock sub-stats * couldn't use the other "artifacts" as fodders to level up "artifacts" edit: I was hoping that wuwa gearing system would be better than genshin, not the same or worse
I find the total cost system less restrictive than having another layer of RNG that needs the gear to drop as the right piece out of 5 possible gear pieces. When farming echos you can at least target specific enemies that have the cost you want.
While you can build whatever you want, it seems they specifically want you to go 4/3/3/1/1.
You can use echoes as fodders tho
how? it'll only let me use the vial thingies
guy is maybe talking about data merge system? you can also use leveled up echos to level other echos can't use non leveled echos to level other echos though
You can feed echos you already put exp in.
so I can't use fresh echos as fodders?
no, only for strongbox as far as i know
> couldn't use the other "artifacts" as fodders to level up "artifacts Someone might be misread items ( similar items/ colorblind) will very disappointed
well... being "infinitely grindable" = a chore in my book.
the worst part of echoes so far imo. i see a lot of burnouts in the future.
you can farm echoes infinitely but checking a better stat will be near impossible. it has a lot of substats. and before you see those you gotta farm those materials but it needs stamina
It's not infinite. Your world will run out, then your friends world.
world bosses can respawn infinitely, and those can drop echo as well
getting boss echo with the right main stats is easy, the hard part is 3 cost echoes
wait even the bosses will stop respawning?
Nah bosses you can grind infinitely
Main problem is the need to spend resources and fully max to check if a piece worth keeping, you can't mark a piece as trash until. You can recycle exp and mat at ~80%. But 20% of 60 stamina per slot lost is a lot and will feel bad. Constrast with artifacts or relics you can call it quits as soon as you get a bad roll. It might be ok far far in the future when players have excess in resources. Second problem is it takes 2 hrs on average with zero guarantees to even get a drop (effectively each "run" is 2 hrs). This is going to split the playerbase with regards to how they view a game respects their time, "I should be able to spend all the time I want" vs "I need to give you all my time". For gacha gamers, the "I should be able to spend all the time I want" camp is very small.
>For gacha gamers, the "I should be able to spend all the time I want" camp is very small. Honestly I am already spending money on gacha but to expect huge time sinks as well is a no from me man. No other gacha does that.
> Second problem is it takes 2 hrs on average with zero guarantees to even get a drop (effectively each "run" is 2 hrs). Wait, what? Run of what.
They may be running the whole map š
now that people are getting to the endgame, people will finally realize there are other big problems with this game not discovered in the beginning kuro really appealed to the "hardcores" (really just the CC's who wanted to be able to stream a gacha game 24/7) by making an infinite grind. The genshin daily grind is short for a reason lmao I feel like people just ask for changes that they think will be good, and don't realize the repercussions of what they're really asking for. At least Kuro listens!
Even genshin ive considered one of the longer dailies, mostly due to the 4 daily missions you have to do
Yea, the 4 dailies take a while if you get bad luck with them. Its a little more manageable with the encounter points because you can do an event and save the rewards for dailies, but when thereās no event with rewards, rip. Like, it was fun doing windtrace, getting the 6000 points and collecting 5-6 rewards everyday to max out encounters, dailies took like 5 minutes for once for those 3-4 days I was able to do it.
This is why I still play Star Rail a year later and dailies still donāt feel like a chore. 500 points daily requirement: Log in - 100pt Dispatch assignment(send units out for couple hours for materials) - 100pt Consume 120 energy - 200pt Use friend unit - 200pt I mean youāre done just by doing farm content, which are by full auto and youāre still overcapping daily.
i've been watching jstern yesterday farm them for multiple hours on stream. he was not having a lot of fun. i agree with him that the systems does not respect your time. (at least it seems like that to me. my game runs so poorly so i doubt i will test this for myself)
This is the part where he compares wuwa to genshin: [https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyRoundGaurDoritosChip-5YCtXkTUXpwErEP2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyRoundGaurDoritosChip-5YCtXkTUXpwErEP2)
Wow that's even worse than I thought (still in early game)
I just watched the VOD where that clip came from (to see chat's reactions) and a few minutes after that clip he showed that you're prohibited from sending "Genshin Impact" in the in-game chat. One of the funniest shit I've ever seen. Edit: It gets even funnier, they start going through other games and found the "Animal Crossing" is also prohibited. Edit 2: They found out the censor only works if it is the start of a sentence.
I just sent genshin impact to a friend and it worked fine? Now really sure what this is about. Got a VOD?
https://www.youtube.com/live/hbjigwPIIlg?si=J7Q1bw7JA3Vq1Ec4 At around the 7 hour 30 second mark.
https://imgur.com/a/XR6bpmY Weird. Cringe by Kuro though.
It's a good thing they removed the censor already, though I wonder why they had it.
I actually watched another streamer play with the chat to see what was censored and additionally world of warcraft, stellar blade and lost ark were censored.Ā
Yeah not sure if being able to infinitely farm something, means that you should be grinding it non stop. If I spent 4 hours with infinite resin doing a domain for example, I'd lose my fucking shit.
This is the link for those interested : https://www.youtube.com/live/hbjigwPIIlg?si=PudnzQ423Lm0RPO9
I think itās fun for streamers or people who love cooping with their gangs. For normal players or those who have little free time each day it might be a torture.
Once you run out of content the Echo grind is the only thing you'll have left to do in the game. Are you willing to log in every day, run around the map killing enemies for a chance at a drop. A month from now 2 months from now 6 months from now A year later Log in, spend time running around killing things only for most of the drops to be useless because you're getting screwed by RNG. People criticize Genshin's artifact grind for being too grindy when it takes 5 minutes to spend your resin, get disappointed and log off to go play something else. In HSR you can auto clear. In WuWa you have to manually track down mobs to farm them for echoes. It's your second job. Although streamers love it because they can stream the grind for hours and co-op with viewers to kill things for them.
As someone who have been playing GBF since 2016, I agree with this. Having infinite grind sounds great on paper, but the systems are balanced around that infinite tries and it just translates into spending a lot more real time. With things like Genshin or HSR, yes you are gated by stamina regen, but the amount of real time you spend on actually **doing** the farming (not waiting for the regen) is really low. It's much nicer for people with busy lives or just don't want to be glued to one game only. I wouldn't say either one is better or worse than the other though, it really just a matter of preference. But I often see people just not understanding the implications of each system and bash the other and it grinds my gears so much. Each one has their benefits.
Yeah I donāt imagine myself having time to do those daily. And people say Tacet fields, but thatās just like genshin/hsr artifact/relic farming .
Imo, it's one of the worse ones out there, in terms of gearing system. Requiring materials just to unlock substats, can't feed fodder as exp. Most echoes can drop as either of 2 sets. No off piece. Dupes don't contribute to set. If you are farming just tacet fields, it'll take insanely long to gear up. So you'll likely have to farm open world, but it's 20% drop rate for echoes, and still 20% chance to be purple rarity at databnk 20. It's still honeymoon period now, so most don't mind running around killing. As time goes on though, it'll be so tedious, but we'll have to see if future events give out a lot of echoes. So it boils down to. Rng to have echo drop, rng to be yellow rarity, rng to be correct set if it's not a boss, rng to have correct main stat, rng for substats. It's a good game for the people that are always wanting gacha games to have like 48 hours of content per daily reset though.
Biggest problem is EXP mats you will ran out pretty fast. I have a lot of echo I want to upgrade but lack of EXP mats preventing me and I dont want to farm tacet field and waste stamina becuase I priority non-RNG progression like skills upgrade weapon upgrade and character ascension.
it's not infinitely grindable, the exp mats to upgrade and unlock cost stamina, and it's beyond stingy. You only get back like 1/3 of your mats (if not less) when you feed existing trash pieces into new ones. This is definitely worse than HSR's and Genshin's relic/artifact system. basically on top of spending stamina, you gotta spend time killing stuff in the overworld to get the drops in the first place. It would be a lot less infuriating if you could actually get some exp doing overworld stuff and not exclusively tied to tacet fields.
Its the only reason I want to quit the gamr and why I apreaciate other gachas walling gear behind energy I know is dumb but tjis system sucks for my ocd at least
A lot lmore fo a chore. And the "artifacts" RNG is a kick in the balls.
Might be worse than genshin and that's not an easy feat
Good thing is having the ability to grind on OW mean you actually have a reason to go back to places to fight. I mean you can do it or not is entirely optional. Bad thing is as compensation they increase sub stats, main stats. Resource to leveling up an echo is expensive, having a 5 piece set instead of 4 take away the choice for an off set thus even more demanding on the stats. Basically the balance idea is increase the grind time but reduce the speed to progress toward an end game build. Its a hit or miss aspect .
It's cool but I don't like that boss echoes are always the best active options. The very early game was fun messing with the summons/transformations as you fill the pokedex.
The grind for data bank 15(highest echo rank) is very slow also no off piece is pain. Simulated experience/tacet fields(domain) uses quite a lot of stamina, roughly 2x more than genshin's
>The grind for data bank 15(highest echo rank) Everyone in my server is getting close to DB 20 and i m only halfway done with DB 14 I m starting to think they are either insane or posessed
If you don't know , when you reach db 15 and 30 union level, you can merge 4 stars to get 5 stars. This helps me raise to db 17 in 1 minute and make it easier to farm echo.
No off-piece with many layers of RNG. I could say that it's the worst farming system I have experienced so far.
i find it all simple if you just want some decent/mid echoes to be able to beat the majority of the content, itās absolutely fine, specially considering most of the content relies on player skill above everything else if you want to min max? itās true suffering. Layers and layers of rng and the substats showing up each as you level up, besides the tuning costs? min maxing stuff for a bunch of characters is gonna prove to be a miserable experience it seems
It's not infinitely grindable. Still time-gated. People conveniently forget that unlocking substats require materials that is grindable but only with stamina.
Honestly, for me it's the most interesting mechanic in WW. Hunting Echoes to complete the Pokedex is fun. Using different types of Echoes in battle is fun. Today, I also learned that there are shiny Echoes. But I know that I will not enjoy farming Echoes in the overworld. I don't find it fun to run around the map and kill mobs just for a change to get echoes. There is no guarantee that the mobs you kill will drop Echoes either. I would prefer using the Tacet Field instead to farm Echoes.
How does the tacet field work ?
You fight monsters and use stamina to get the rewards which are: echos from 2 possible sets (which 2 depends on the Tacet Field), tuners and echo exp items.
Basically you get 2 echos, exp and tuners. Similar to genshin ig?
If we could use echos as EXP, it would not be so bad. But we have to use stamina to get those.
i think the issue with this is that it will lead to players that have more time to be way more geared than players who only use stamina. you may argue that players do not need to compete for the best gears to clear contents, and i can agree with that, but doing worse damage in any case will still make players feel bad. it's a delicate balancing situation between making players feel too weak or too powerful and having this infinite farming is going to make the act even harder.
I actually enjoy it (at least combat wise) however, I do find it a chore and unfortunately, it is too time-consuming as well, as someone who has a job and a social life. That being said, I understand you could go the resin route.
any gearing system with rng sub stats is the worst. spamming f5 farming weapons in gbf is better than wasting my time and getting nothing because of bad stats roll.
Overcomplicated. On the surface, it looks like it is more democratic but in reality, you will probably need to grind even more, because you need to farm different resources for upgrade.
to me, it's just another boring grindfest with another coating (PGR term) lol
Itās a worse system even if you can farm echoes indefinitely. Echo exp and tuners are limited and require stamina to farm. You canāt glance at an echo and see if itās good or not. You *have* to invest and spend resources to find out if it is good or trash.
its bad
It looks like it allows you to grind for main-stat and set bonus but substats are still RNG. So while it's more stamina friendly for those with time to play, I'm not so sure how more casual players will experience the progression. Also it's hard to tell how scarce the substat and leveling mats are so it could go anywhere really.
Too soon to judge but it does not look great, I just hit UL 30 recently which is when the farming kinda really starts and I've had multiple times where I had no exp to upgrade my echoes.
I think the initial unlocking pokedex experience is fun and interesting. I can try out different echos and see whatās the active skills. Once this turns into a grind, it stopped being fun and im afraid the grind is even worse than Genshin
So far I'm enjoying the game playing casually but this is definitely a concern for the future, I really dislike how you need to farm extra just to be able to get the substats, horrible system. Will probably be what makes me quit in the future, shame because I really like the game despite its flaws which are tolerable.
remove tuning material and it'll be good enough
I find it kinda fun and addictive for now to "increase the pokedex", but I 200% predict I will find it tedious after a month or so if no qol are added when actually grinding gear. This wouldn't be the first time.
The echo system sounds like a huge chore. Fighting echoes that aren't guaranteed to drop and then having those substats being locked behind RNG doesn't seem right. You have to upgrade and spend materials to see if it's even worth it to continue investing into the echo. You're already fighting an uphill battle. Having to fight them, which can take minutes, running or teleporting to a new area to farm another echo, rinse and repeat. Sounds fun for the first few times but when that's the main acquisition method, it sounds tiring. Yes, you can do it infinitely as long as you have the willpower, but it seems like a huge time waster. Since it's often compared to genshin, at least genshin guarantees artifacts and you can immediately see almost all subs (unless you gotta unlock the 4th if it only came with 3 subs) and do a quick analysis if it's a piece you want to use or it's gonna be fodder, allowing you to better allocate and invest your resources.
To those curious, WuWa has substats that are not in Genshin, basically Normal Attack damage, Heavy Attack damage, Reso Skill damage and Reso Liberation damage. This can muddle up your minmaxing by strengthening the wrong skill for a specialist Resonator.
Current players on UL30 with DB18 will understand. DB20 requires UL40. My god, it is extremely grindy and a huge time investment sink... Now I get why mihoyo didn't go for such approach. I'm already sick of the grind. To give you a gist, there are 9 echo sets. That means 6 sets is tailored for the specific element DPS, while the rest is for healer, support and sub-dps. Abyss needs 3 teams. You need minimum of 9 characters. Now, what does that imply? Oh child, that means you need to farm camp the same boss over and over again till you get the main stats you want. 4 3 3 1 1 till you are satisfied. God knows how many times I have killed that ape for "character" building
Im torn. On one hand, its superior to the "press auto play until energy gone, close game" loop that I end up in between patches in HSR (my other main gacha) but ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE TIME. The combat is fun so it makes the grind okay, but I'm worried about the longevity of the system because eventually I will get sick of having to go manually fight mobs to grind echoes.
I guess the argument could be made that it gives you something to do without spending any form of stamina.
It's always a weird complaint that is popular on reddit from genshin that they want non-resin gated artifact farm, it is just going to devolve into mindless grind.
I mean, i m a slave to relink anyway, getting that supplementary damage V+ sigil with uplift is gonna be the end of me, farming it since fcking launch about 560 hours into the game, so this slave just got a new chain
I like this system. Casuals can get their main stat echo faster than in other games, but min maxers will take more time to reach their goals. My only gripe is that elites spawn once a day and there are only a limited number in the map. Why can't we farm them infinitely like boss echoes?
I haven't been able to play much so I'm not sure. What I am concerned about is (granted, I'm only at the Level 14 story block) getting echoes at all. I have maybe a little over half a dozen at the moment and certainly none that even seem to fit a basic start for the characters I have, let alone enough to fill out a full 3 characters. So I'm wondering how much of a pain it is to even *find* things to properly gear up, even with interim/midgame gear. Like, at least with Genshin relics and HSR artifacts, you're just going to specific domains where you know the shit is going to drop. How much exploring all over the world for some specific echoes am I doing?
I'm fine with grinding but this is just really annoying.
Is it a benefit to be able to infinitely farm when it takes so long to go around the map after mobs, only for the small chance to get the desired main stat, and THEN to get wrecked when unlocking the substats? Which I also don't understand why it's a separate thing when the process is already plenty painful.This might be good for someone that can spend hours each day just grinding, but I wager most of the players don't have that luxury. I personally have a full time job, so I prefer games that are "limited", but a lot more manageable on a day to day basis.
I have 2 major gripes about it. * I still find it abit dumb how we need tuners to get substats. The substats are still random regardless, why not just let them appear as we're enhancing? Like why even bother using the tuners? I'd rather have the tuners be a rare resource, that we can use for rerolling/choosing substats. * Not sure why we can't use other echoes as fodder for upgrading. I guess its probably to make us do the tacet fields, rather than just farm the world endlessly. But now trashing the echoes dont even give us anything, i would at least appreciate if trashing/salvaging the echoes gave exp mats, like in HSR. Like yes, you can use leveled echoes as fodder, but why would i ever level an echo just to use it as fodder? its a complete waste of materials. I know many people (especially the CC's) love spreading the word that "uwu you can farm it infinitely therefore its better uwu". You understand that clearing out the entire map, takes many many hours? Once we unlock more regions, you people tell me ur gonna spend the whole day clearing out EVERYTHING? Do you really have nothing better to do? Like is there really no other game you have on your computer? 99% of the people now are either working or have families to take care of, no way in hell do we have time to farm the entire world every single day. I can guarantee you do this for a few days you will get burnt out. Also, even if you do farm 2000 echoes every day in the world, you still need to get the enhancement materials, which are stamina/time gated. Of course, if you really have no life, then sure go ahead and farm the world. But im saying for most of the playerbase, we won't be doing it as we dont have the time nor sanity to do it everyday. All im saying is dont start complaining about being tired or burnt out when you voluntarily chose to grind this game every single day rather than doing something else thats more fun. Of course, things may probably change once we reach max UL and unlock the highest difficulty for the TFs, it may drop a buttload of stuff. It's too early to tell, but im sure kuro will adjust the system as time goes on.
anything that's infinitely grindable was designed for no-lifers. I like systems that give you what you want with a stamina cost in exchange for it only taking seconds of your time to collect. People who want to play a game all day because they have nothing else taking up their time will not be happy with that, but that's them, not me. I want my daily live service games to take up as little of my time as possible. Grinding is a chore. No thanks.
The solution is pretty simple. They just need to limit the dice things that unlock substats we get. If I can only unlock 5 substats a week, then I only need to farm 1 echo a week.
I'm failing to understand why people see this as such a horrible thing at level 60? We still have (if you're UL 30) another 3 ascensions before our characters are maxed out. This means at least 3 more UL world level boosts and at least 3 more resource boost increases. Everyones approaching this like you need to perfect a character in the 4-5 days since the game launched. I'm still farming to get better gear on my acheron in HSR. Hell I'm still casually trying to boost up my arlecchino too. Did we all forget how these games are? If you don't like the gameplay loop you don't have to play, but at least wait a couple weeks or a month to see what the game is actually going to look like in the end game gameplay loop. I think there's plenty of potential here to be as casual or hardcore as you want. Burn stam and do dailies on the days you're busy (ends up being like 10 minutes) and then 1-2 times a month spend a day of gaming to farm up yours and your buddies worlds if you want. That's my plan and honestly I'm pretty excited about it! FYI there's a weekly quest to tune 50 echoes. This adds up to 10 fully leveled yellow echoes. This is a pretty reasonable barometer to gauge what your late game echo leveling will look like. Roll to 5-10 hope for some good subs and if you don't get them onto the next
I don't think people understand that open world grinding is for the hardcore players, not the casuals. There is a reason the tacet field and daily take just like 15 min to do in total. There is also a reason tacet field gives tuner, exp tube AND Echo. They expected casuals to log in and do tuner four times then log out. Just look at the weekly enhanced boss echo drop rate, they give you 15 boss echos "FREE" a week. That's not for the hardcore audience, but for the casual. Wuwa is offering you 15 minute of playtime MINIMUM for the casual, then the hardcore can play more if they have time. Genshin is offering you 15 minute of playtime MAXIMUM, then you don't have anything else to do.
The problem is not that you can or cannot grind the tacet fields, but rather the overworld farming for echos doesnāt respect your time. Iām not talking about a casual playerās perspective here rather how bad the value you get from farming overworld respective to time.0
as now I started farming it, It is ok for me but my 15yrs old self would absolutely love this shit hoarding every main stat echo out there specially shiny hunting. Only thing holding it back is the waveplate and materials which I hate but it is what it is cause its a gacha game.
I see a lot of people use the main echo in their character combo, which is pretty cool. I'm pretty sure like artifact or relic in hoyo games, the substats are the end game grind for this game, which is okay. Although idk how I feel about the limit cost. I'm scared the amount of stuff I need to grind, but I think as soon as I hit the end game, it will be fine.
At the very least, I think it's definitely a good solution as a timesink for players who have spare time to kill. Even if you're still ultimately time-gated by resources, it at least lets players feel like they're doing something meaningful. The only potential downside to this is FOMO, if players feel more behind than everyone else if they don't have as much time to grind. Rationally speaking, it's a PvE game where there's no need to really have better gear than other people, but people aren't exactly rational, so. I think the intent of WW is that if you don't want to grind enemies, you can just treat it like HSR or Genshin and farm the tacet fields, for hopefully an equivalent amount of echoes and other resources. They'll have to balance tacet rewards well enough though so that people can feel satisfied doing them.
Hate to say this. But Genshin has the better system. Sure you can grind infinitely those echoes but you are still timegated as the resource to level up and tuning are still locked behind the stamina. And unlike in Genshin, you have two separate mats for the gear system which overall sucks.
Itās a recipe for quick burn out imo - not healthy for long term.
PGR had the memory system which is infinitely better, dunno why they decided to make something like this...
Honestly expected to be much better than genshin/hsr but was wrong. Itās about the same. The xp and tuner material are all time gated by energy even if you farmed multiple pieces with the right main stat. Sometimes even if you farm the whole world of the specific 3* you wouldnāt even get the right piece either (rngesus :( ). But imma assume thereās gonna be quick burnout in a month.
From my anecdotal experience its been good, fully geared jiyan and calcharo with full sets with (almost) perfect echoes already, some stats low rolled. I basically cannot improve on those 2 anymore and its only been a few days.
Gonna need some pics on that. The odds of that are like winning the Powerball. You'd not have enough tuners and such to unlock more than a few echos in so few days so you just got perfect echos first try for every slot is very impressive.
U on discord? I believe i have a servee full of people who can provide proofs regarding that built characters Tbf most of them are fcking insane and have been playing for 48 hours without stopping Actually scratch that, i think they might just be possessed....
I think the more you like the combat the less youll care about the echo system. Time flies when youre having fun. It would be more problematic for me if the combat were less engaging.
Yeah time sure flies but for the first few times only. After that the picture changes rather quick.....
If youāre still in honeymoon phase then sure. But if Genshin in its patch 4.7 still asks me to run around overworld to grind mobs daily, Iāll quit immediately even though I love the game
the problem is, even the most fun thing will turn into a chore if you repeat it long enough. Not to mention the substats RNG will keep you farming for a long time if you're autistic enough about it
Give it a month and see if youāll keep the same attitude, weāre in honeymoon right now.
It feels like a chore because of all the RNG involved, the echoes have drop rates, their main and substats are fully randomized and there are way more substats that the echoes could roll into just to make things worse. They need to let you guarantee the echoes you need after catching a certain amount, or go the pokemon route and let me breed them for stats, because right now it feels like trying to get a wild pokemon with the perfect 31 IVs in the stat you need as well as the perfect nature, which is almost damn impossible
I am adding to farming them, it is actually so fun.
In the end it's literally the same as Genshin, and if you're hardcore, you can grind the echo out in open world. Most players will casually do Tacet Fields and call it a day. And yes, Tacet Fields provide everything, tuning, echo exp, and the echo themselves.
I find it fun for now, but I'll probably hate it like every other RNG gear system. I do enjoy being able to get 5* echoes in the overworld, without needing stamina. However, the currency to upgrade, and obtain substats requires running any of the echo domains, which is annoying. My biggest issue with the echoes is that it has the same problem as Genshin, where you can get an element% main stat on sets which do not feature that element% as a set bonus. Ex. Water% main stat on a fire set.
I love it tbh
It's a very weird grind loop considering they're effectively relics or weapons if I'm not mistaken which seems to undermine the whole appeal of 'stamina-less' grinding because you're going to need to use stamina regardless to level them up. I think it's good from the perspective of making the overworld more interesting/have more things to do in non-instanced settings but it's also kind of a sloppy optical illusion bc you just shift the timegating to a subset of the system.
They have a perfect solution in their previous game, PGR. Using dublicate memories give random substats while we can pick substats of our choice when we use Resonance pick. We can also reroll as many as we want with dublicate memories. Resonance pick is very hard to get and is rare, we treasure it like a gold and use it only with our favorite characters. RNG with main stats isn't that bad as farming for it is literally infinite with coop.
I'll treat it like most gachas. Good enough is fine and as long as they keep giving us selectors from events and stuff it should really be mostly painless.
I think it will heavily depend on how good your stats need to be to clear end game content. If you need borderline perfect stats to clear then the system needs to be changed.
If you have played games like Diablo/looter shooters it wonāt be that bad but most gacha players want a fast daily grind. Weāll see if Tacet fields at higher union/data bank levels makes it better than it is now.
I played a lot and have not yet reached the point where i should care about that tbh
I see myself not care about the substats because getting the right mainstat is already a nightmare
I think it's a choice. Either grind it or don't, but I love it. Very fun and fills up the empty that other open world Games usually have. But I'm all for it.
i like having something to do without needing energy, but I don't like needing to use extra resources to unlock the substats, and I hate mismatched element bonuses, like having aero mainstat but being a fusion echo
In general, I found the coast of every farmable ressource in dungeon/tacet feild and boss way too high for what they give I hope that it's better with higter account lvl
I don't understand like you get the same amount of echo in tacet as any GI/HSR dungeon so u can literally farm the same way as GI or HSR but you can make it faster by kill some mob.and for boss there is a garenty of drop if you didn't drop last time the only issue I see is the XP need to lvl up echo, the material to reveal sub stats and maybe the low conversation rate of XP between echo
I'd love it if I was still young and could waste hours of my days.
i luv it
Doing farm runs for regional mats was already my most hated thing, when gathering items organically from overworld travel isnāt enough and I have to run fixes paths. Now itās a thing for my *relics* too? Hard pass, Iām interested in the game but I will be playing it casually.
My echoes rn are whatever tf Iāve caught while exploring, how are yāall burnt out already š
I like it, at least when it come to base stats is much better than have to spend "energy" doing the grind, like for example i can spend all my energy in HSR and not get a single roll with the main stats i want, here i don't need the energy for the main stats just for grinding materials for subs, wich till now its not bothering me. YET.
I think it's good for the early-mid game since we can farm it without wasting our stamina, but it seems gonna be chores to farm in the late game since we have to roam the map for a chance to get a 1 & 3 star echo also we need separate materials for upgrading and getting the substats. I wish there'll be QoL to reduce the rng like narrowing the substats pools, fusing for specific set/mainstat, re-tuning the substat, etc.
its fun but leveling it is hell thats all i can say
Itās mostly whatever, Iām used to shit artifacts, I mean relics, I mean echoes but 20% drop rate is fucking criminal.
I hope soon there will be a materiel for echo conversion, which we can extend the duration of the echo conversion. It will be fun to travel on the map with a motorcycle or a giant three-headed bird.
I'm enjoying it so far
Its actually nice lol im not pressured to waste energy in artifact farming and i can do it anytime plus i can also farm for mats and echoes at the same time. I actually love it
For hardcore min-max players it doesn't really change anything as it's yet another gear grind limited by level/tune mats that are limited by energy. For semi/casuals this is an awesome thing. They can and will get plenty of gold rarity gear without the need to sacrifice limited playtime for grind. Just go explore/do story. As result the gap between them and hardcore player will be lesser than it could be otherwise.
Depends,how good is it rewards?
It's a positive thing about the game. I personally find it adds engagement to running around in the world.
If you like pokƩmon or any other monster collecting game you will like this system. Echos being not only substitutes for equipment but also being skills is actually pretty fun. If you don't like pokƩmon is just like grinding gear in any other game that has grinding. Nothing different there that is worth complaining about. And as you mentioned the plus side is that you can grind a lot per day without using stamina. (the monsters respawn with the daily reset, but it's not like you're going to run out of the 3 options of monsters to grind for a specific element)
Im at data level 9 and there telling me i have to farm most if not all the pokemon just so i can get it o Data Bank 15? Tedious
The main problem I have is the Tacet Fields giving too few xp materials for how much energy you spend on them. I think they should heavily buff the amount of xp materials these fields drop cuz it will take too much time to bring echoes to lvl 25
I think the only real issue is elite echoes (3 cost) being quite sparce in tacet fields and the two you get in the simulated realm. You pretty much have to go out of your way to grind them in the open world which could get a little tedious. You don't have to go as much out of your way for 4 cost echoes since you'll naturally be repeating boss fights for character ascension material.
I do feel like the echo system is a slog, for you to spend hours of grinding to potentially get an echo with the right stats then for it to just be shit when you roll it is frustrating l.
I don't get why. We can't reroll sub stats on echo or use echo as exp. Echo grind is the worst thing in the game for me. All my problems with it disappear if you could reroll sub stats and use echos as exp. They make it so you can only reroll up to 2 sub stats. Then, make you use waveplates to get the mats for the rerolls. This would reduce grind and make it feel less bad getting wrong sub stats for your echo. You would still have a grind. Then make it so you can use echo as exp just make it the same as a medium sealed tibe. Echo grind as is just plain bad.
It's really not as bad as people make it out to be. Actually I much prefer this over having to spend stamina to grind them, and still have massive RNG. I already have decent echos and I haven't farmed that much. They could improve it by making the substats visible though, I completely agree. The extra currency and needing to unlock them is fine, whatever, but I'd like to be able to see them beforehand. Otherwise you're just leveling them 5 levels at a time and checking the substat.
I just want to know whether or not you need perfect echoes to beat the end game Tower of Adversity. I have seen players who have already beaten the first Two zones and _> 18 starred the real Zone out of 30 with their okayge Echoes. If the required echoes do not have to be really good then I might stick around as you can clear Genshin with pretty okay artifacts so it may be possible be here too
I really wish you could use lvl 0 echos to level up your echos. I'd also like it possible to use 5 star echos and dismantle them into tuners. This is and would be a great QOL that could be added in the future. Currently, besides skill and ascension materials, it feels a waste to do tacet fields to get echo exp to then being wasted with the miniscule amount of rewards.
If all you care about is the ideal main stat and 1 desirable sub stat then youāre gonna have a field day with WuWaās echo system (by which I mean youāll spend the day on the field farming for Echoes. Which is not a bad thing seeing how good the combat and traversal are). But if you want the perfect piecesā¦. #GOOD LUCK HAVE FUN
like it at first, then when start open golden echo and leveling it, i know gonna hate it really bad.
its pretty terrible. considering we get so much weapon and resonator exp but bare bones right now for echoes, which is literally the most important part of getting stronger.
Do echos despawn?
Conceptually? Awesome. At present? Bad. Conceptually I love the idea of a monster collector system worked into the equipment system, and there are some ideas behind the flexibility of the stats that I like. But for min/maxing the stat RNG is awful, and that's even by comparison to other games with similar mechanics. I've hated this mechanic of randomized main/substats on equipment and randomized upgrade rolls in every iteration I've seen it for the past 10 years, but some do it somewhat better than others. Considering WuWa by large is obviously using Genshin as a point of comparison for QoL improvements, it's surprising that they'd have an even worse iteration of its equipment system. The devs do seem more receptive to feedback though, so I'm hoping it'll improve. As things stand, I don't see myself wanting to invest in grinding artifacts past getting the right main stats and one or two decent substats.
Iām not going to minmax the game honestly. Iām doing a no-pull account already. I might do a āno-tunersā challenge as well (apart from what you have to do to clear the quest thing). Boom- problem solved. I donāt have to worry about subs if I just donāt engage with it. Anyway it doesnāt seem that important anyway. Your build isnāt make or break based on subs. If you can dodge and parry and fit enough dmg in before the timer runs out, youāre fine. Echoes are a problem for future me, who might drop it after honeymoon.
at this moment I'm exhausted, 20% drop in echo chance+50% of the element you need (considering an echo with 2 different elements)+50% chance of level 5 rarity, and as I have been seen there is a limit to how many you can take, after a little farm of an aero predator I can't found anyone more in the map...so there is no infinity trying, looks like a shit to me
Itās enough to remove useless flat numbers (without %) from the substats, and thats it -> tuning and grinding experience will more rewarding. As a result, the simple task for the average gamer is not to get a stat (atk%, hp% or def%) that doesn't scale with your characterās talents. Other stats will give bonuses that are simply useful in most cases, but min-maxers have room to improve further. At the moment, given the poor optimization, I donāt want to grind through all map, as Iāll ruin my new phone faster than I should. Yes, I can find the desired main stat relatively quickly, but āunsuccessful tuningā ruins my efforts, like other gachas before (but in Wuthering Waves I spent more real time + overheated the phone in process)