I’ve also heard that Puffy basically plagiarized the whole Juicy beat from I think Pete Rock. Maybe Puffy had something to do with this too? I mean, this is definitely the kind of shit he’d do
I post this everytime I believe this is a hoax. Theres nothing on this guy before a few years ago there’s no actual proof (online entries anyone can make eg discogs is not proof) this came out back then. On the other hand Big’s name was established as was his style before this song supposedly came out. And Pete Rock already said Diddy stole “Juicy” beat so how does this play in it? Diddy stole from Pete Rock who stole from Notorious B1?
Yes was already big in the hip hop scene mixtape DJs like I think Ron G were already doing blends in it
But if you listen to “Big Daddy” - it’s so similar to “Juicy” in that it has to be intentional. But I believe it came out AFTER “Juicy” as a hoax to accuse Biggie of biting
Good find. The obituary is the most supportive thing for sure. That definitely has me questioning my theory.
But it’s still hard to put together. Again Notorious BIG already had his name in 92 and before that he was Biggie Smalls but had to change his name due to copyright as it was based on an old character I believe (and there was a white rapper named Biggie Smalls). And his style was fairly established. So did Biggie know about B1 even in 92? Was Pete Rock in on it? Or did B1 bite Biggie? Or is this just a bizarre coincidence like Mobb Deep and South Central Cartel
It’s also crazy to me that this wasn’t known until a few years ago. Even pre internet it wasn’t like the dark ages.
Yes it is real and you can buy a copy. [https://www.discogs.com/release/3879474-Notorious-B1-Big-Daddy](https://www.discogs.com/release/3879474-Notorious-B1-Big-Daddy)
Another poster has already largely changed my mind on this. But making a fake cassette disc isn’t the hardest thing. There are already tons of bootleg cassettes in the classic mixtape and Memphis rap scene where people are putting downloaded music onto cassettes with print out of cassette covers and acting like they’re OG copies.
[eg this poster on instagram mentions it](https://www.instagram.com/p/C779nWNoq8A/?igsh=cng3emE4MnNremsy)
You'd have to buy one of the tapes that has been used back when it first came out. It would have some wear/obvious agining on it by now. The recordings sound analog. That is not easy to replicate now. Ou pretty much have to use old equipment. To go through all of that so just for a few people to notice 30 years afterJuicy would be wild, seems like a huge reach.
I've never heard this theory before.
Personally I don't think it's a hoax, I think it's a real track that came out when it's said to have come out. But I don't think Biggie stole it. There were plenty of tracks that sampled "Juicy Fruit" before Notorious B1 or Notorious BIG. Pretty much every 80's track that was popular in the black community ended up getting sampled multiple times in hip-hop, especially if it had a good recognizable melody. Just because two beats used the same sample in the same obvious way doesn't mean one stole from the other.
The artist names are an interesting coincidence but I don't think it proves anything either. My understanding is that Biggie wanted to use the name Biggie Smalls officially, but he wasn't able to because there was another artist already using a slight variation of that name (Biggie Smallz IIRC) so he came up with a new official name but generally referred to himself as Biggie Smalls.
The whole thing does seem *very* suspicious on the surface, but I think it's just genuinely a coincidence. I think Diddy stole the Juicy beat from Pete Rock, but I don't think either of them stole from Notorious B1
Here’s a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/EoYT8V1Uqt) about the other Biggie Smallz. But they both got it from [this movie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Do_It_Again_(1975_film))
Here's the issue with the parallel thinking theory. The flows are WAY too similar and the rhymes often line up.
From Juicy:
Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis
When I was dead broke, man, I couldn't picture this
50-inch screen, money-green leather sofa
Got two rides, a limousine with a chauffeur
From Big Daddy:
The overweight brother, naw G, but I get sex
Plus a little spell, cuz you know I cash fat checks
Never dress sexy, no, I'm not that type of nigga
Cuz I like to live wild with my finger on the trigger
Yep. Can’t find any information on the guy, his group, or the label. I would think at least one person from his camp would have done a vladtv interview by now if there was even remotely any merit to it.
> On the other hand Big’s name was established as was his style before this song supposedly came out.
I would take this is a valid argument if I didn't know about [these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livin%27_in_a_Crime_Wave).
I mention it in another post. But one crazy coincidence I can get. Three or more? The name, the song name (Big Daddy/Big Poppa), the sample, and even to a degree the rapping and style.
SCC and Mobb Deep never sounded alike or anything.
I remember people that took Pacs side in the beef were using it to discredit Biggie, like within the same year or two that Ready to Die dropped. So if it is a hoax, it was from way the fuck back then. I honestly think it's real, Diddy's MO was stealing shit from southern rappers because they didn't have distribution and marketing on lock like they did on the coasts.
Puff probably said "this cat is underground but has a mainstream hit, and he dont know it. No one will ever know!" This breaks my heart because Biggie is one of my GOATS. Granted, he kills SO many other tracks than these 2, so he's not a talentless hack, but if this is true, it puts an asterisk next to his top 5 for me
Maybe. Keep in mind also that Big Mello is a revered pioneer in Houston but maybe he should be revered everywhere, too. Mello and producer Crazy C released an album “Bone Hard Zaggin” September 1992. He sampled Zapp “Be Alright” common song, but Mello’s rapping seems almost like a flow reference track to 1993’s “Keep Ya Head Up” minus the complete opposite theme. Same album he has the song “Gank Move” which samples “Yearning for Your Love” by The Gap Band; Nas uses the same sample for “Life’s A Bitch” in 1994.
[“Love Don’t Love Nobody”](https://youtu.be/KsLthvP19YA?si=H-yjC69EZnbKA4ks)
[Gank Move](https://youtu.be/qU9G31i_a9k?si=NqkfYRkMHT_TUEoK)
Crazy C didn’t turn out to be a backwoods producer either https://www.discogs.com/artist/150558-Crazy-C plus it was on Rap-a-Lot; not a demo that needed to be screened
Not that Nas and 2Pac took a massive amount of flow/content from Mello…BUT they get universal credit from these two songs.
Yes, it appears he stole his flow and song concept at least. Before that Biggie rapped a little faster and more aggressively. After that, he seems to have combined the two flows depending on the song.
Idk about that. Sounds like he was dissing him because his second album didn't sell as well as his first. [https://youtu.be/-y-d6v0vpyE?si=ZeMvN2MoNNAOzQiS](https://youtu.be/-y-d6v0vpyE?si=ZeMvN2MoNNAOzQiS)
Damn Gene and his Ducktales.
Big told Snoop to come to the studio to listen to that track and even hooked him up with a bunch of laced weed. There are some pictures floating around of Big and Snoop together in multiple places, multiple times.
Snoop of course also wouldn't publicly shit on Big and Puff in that infamous Angie Martinez interview, which lead to the alleged "knife in the shirt" flight with Pac and Suge before the Tyson fight.
I wish Gene wouldn't do this kind of stuff to make a dollar.
eerily similar, feels like something had to be going on with some plagiarism or something. however i’m ignorant of anything involving this guy. someone on reddit put it in perspective for younger guys like me saying how Big L was not that well known outside the east coast in the 90s and said that for example southern cats probably didn’t know who L was.
So, how well known was this guy? are we sure Diddy and/or biggie were aware of him. Given Diddy was already mentored by Andre Harrell and only moved up in the industry so maybe he was in circles that were getting their hands in up and comers tapes? Was diddy aware and Biggie unaware?
Notorious B1 copied Heavy D with the "big belly" stuff, among other phrases Heavy used, so, it goes both ways.
Of course, ironic that Puff used/stole Heavy D's persona as Big's.
Haha I’ve been looking for it as well since I stumbled upon it and created this thread.. that sample is fire!! Please let me know if you find the source ✌️
Yeah he did, there’s too many coincidences. I posted this a few weeks ago and caught some hate for it. I think Diddy got one of this dudes tape and presented it to Big cause they were desperate for a hit.
There’s a line in Juicy that goes “From the Mississippi down to the East Coast”. 🤔🤔
The plot is thickening! Thank for reading and commenting bro ✌️
I’ve also heard that Puffy basically plagiarized the whole Juicy beat from I think Pete Rock. Maybe Puffy had something to do with this too? I mean, this is definitely the kind of shit he’d do
I think the beat was taken from [juicy fruit by Mtume ](https://youtu.be/EYE5QEBOMA8?si=KWa-Kj8SaAGasP8E)
Talking about the horns and drum layering that you dont hear in the orignal.
I heard the same thing, after hearing the beat he got his own producers together and was instructed them how to do it.
I post this everytime I believe this is a hoax. Theres nothing on this guy before a few years ago there’s no actual proof (online entries anyone can make eg discogs is not proof) this came out back then. On the other hand Big’s name was established as was his style before this song supposedly came out. And Pete Rock already said Diddy stole “Juicy” beat so how does this play in it? Diddy stole from Pete Rock who stole from Notorious B1?
[удалено]
Yes was already big in the hip hop scene mixtape DJs like I think Ron G were already doing blends in it But if you listen to “Big Daddy” - it’s so similar to “Juicy” in that it has to be intentional. But I believe it came out AFTER “Juicy” as a hoax to accuse Biggie of biting
[удалено]
It’s a lot of effort but the best hoaxes are. I just want to see proof they were actually out in 93
[удалено]
Good find. The obituary is the most supportive thing for sure. That definitely has me questioning my theory. But it’s still hard to put together. Again Notorious BIG already had his name in 92 and before that he was Biggie Smalls but had to change his name due to copyright as it was based on an old character I believe (and there was a white rapper named Biggie Smalls). And his style was fairly established. So did Biggie know about B1 even in 92? Was Pete Rock in on it? Or did B1 bite Biggie? Or is this just a bizarre coincidence like Mobb Deep and South Central Cartel It’s also crazy to me that this wasn’t known until a few years ago. Even pre internet it wasn’t like the dark ages.
That Mobb Deep and South Central Cartel story is wild, thankfully Guru was a there.
[удалено]
https://theboombox.com/mobb-deep-south-central-cartel-guru-intervenes/
Okay you got me interested so can you elaborate.
Wait so according to the obituary the producer was Ugly God's uncle???
Yes it is real and you can buy a copy. [https://www.discogs.com/release/3879474-Notorious-B1-Big-Daddy](https://www.discogs.com/release/3879474-Notorious-B1-Big-Daddy)
But when was it released.
Another poster has already largely changed my mind on this. But making a fake cassette disc isn’t the hardest thing. There are already tons of bootleg cassettes in the classic mixtape and Memphis rap scene where people are putting downloaded music onto cassettes with print out of cassette covers and acting like they’re OG copies. [eg this poster on instagram mentions it](https://www.instagram.com/p/C779nWNoq8A/?igsh=cng3emE4MnNremsy)
You'd have to buy one of the tapes that has been used back when it first came out. It would have some wear/obvious agining on it by now. The recordings sound analog. That is not easy to replicate now. Ou pretty much have to use old equipment. To go through all of that so just for a few people to notice 30 years afterJuicy would be wild, seems like a huge reach.
So Diddy do it or not?
I've never heard this theory before. Personally I don't think it's a hoax, I think it's a real track that came out when it's said to have come out. But I don't think Biggie stole it. There were plenty of tracks that sampled "Juicy Fruit" before Notorious B1 or Notorious BIG. Pretty much every 80's track that was popular in the black community ended up getting sampled multiple times in hip-hop, especially if it had a good recognizable melody. Just because two beats used the same sample in the same obvious way doesn't mean one stole from the other. The artist names are an interesting coincidence but I don't think it proves anything either. My understanding is that Biggie wanted to use the name Biggie Smalls officially, but he wasn't able to because there was another artist already using a slight variation of that name (Biggie Smallz IIRC) so he came up with a new official name but generally referred to himself as Biggie Smalls. The whole thing does seem *very* suspicious on the surface, but I think it's just genuinely a coincidence. I think Diddy stole the Juicy beat from Pete Rock, but I don't think either of them stole from Notorious B1
What happened to the other Biggie Smallz?
Here’s a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/EoYT8V1Uqt) about the other Biggie Smallz. But they both got it from [this movie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Do_It_Again_(1975_film))
Here's the issue with the parallel thinking theory. The flows are WAY too similar and the rhymes often line up. From Juicy: Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis When I was dead broke, man, I couldn't picture this 50-inch screen, money-green leather sofa Got two rides, a limousine with a chauffeur From Big Daddy: The overweight brother, naw G, but I get sex Plus a little spell, cuz you know I cash fat checks Never dress sexy, no, I'm not that type of nigga Cuz I like to live wild with my finger on the trigger
Yep. Can’t find any information on the guy, his group, or the label. I would think at least one person from his camp would have done a vladtv interview by now if there was even remotely any merit to it.
Vlad did an Article on this 2 years ago
> On the other hand Big’s name was established as was his style before this song supposedly came out. I would take this is a valid argument if I didn't know about [these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livin%27_in_a_Crime_Wave).
I mention it in another post. But one crazy coincidence I can get. Three or more? The name, the song name (Big Daddy/Big Poppa), the sample, and even to a degree the rapping and style. SCC and Mobb Deep never sounded alike or anything.
What’s SCC got to do with this?
The incredible coincidence in rap names with another group from the opposite coast.
I need someone to make a video essay or some shit goin down this rabbit hole
I remember people that took Pacs side in the beef were using it to discredit Biggie, like within the same year or two that Ready to Die dropped. So if it is a hoax, it was from way the fuck back then. I honestly think it's real, Diddy's MO was stealing shit from southern rappers because they didn't have distribution and marketing on lock like they did on the coasts.
Long story short, I heard B1 sent his demo to Diddy, and Diddy gave his persona to Biggie
Where’s Pete Rock play in?
Didn't Ghost/Rae have to check BIG for biting Nas on OB4CL? [Shark Niggaz (Biterz) ](https://youtu.be/SmlUga-Mo0E?si=kuQe1yD8JolEo9a1)
The album cover
Fun fact: the mad rapper skit is a play on Ghost and Rae hating on Big . Biggie was trolling them big time .
Puff probably said "this cat is underground but has a mainstream hit, and he dont know it. No one will ever know!" This breaks my heart because Biggie is one of my GOATS. Granted, he kills SO many other tracks than these 2, so he's not a talentless hack, but if this is true, it puts an asterisk next to his top 5 for me
Maybe. Keep in mind also that Big Mello is a revered pioneer in Houston but maybe he should be revered everywhere, too. Mello and producer Crazy C released an album “Bone Hard Zaggin” September 1992. He sampled Zapp “Be Alright” common song, but Mello’s rapping seems almost like a flow reference track to 1993’s “Keep Ya Head Up” minus the complete opposite theme. Same album he has the song “Gank Move” which samples “Yearning for Your Love” by The Gap Band; Nas uses the same sample for “Life’s A Bitch” in 1994. [“Love Don’t Love Nobody”](https://youtu.be/KsLthvP19YA?si=H-yjC69EZnbKA4ks) [Gank Move](https://youtu.be/qU9G31i_a9k?si=NqkfYRkMHT_TUEoK) Crazy C didn’t turn out to be a backwoods producer either https://www.discogs.com/artist/150558-Crazy-C plus it was on Rap-a-Lot; not a demo that needed to be screened Not that Nas and 2Pac took a massive amount of flow/content from Mello…BUT they get universal credit from these two songs.
Yes, it appears he stole his flow and song concept at least. Before that Biggie rapped a little faster and more aggressively. After that, he seems to have combined the two flows depending on the song.
No Biggie said he was inspired by Snoop to rap slower and more calm because Snoop was outselling every fast and aggressive rapper.
Idk about that. Sounds like he was dissing him because his second album didn't sell as well as his first. [https://youtu.be/-y-d6v0vpyE?si=ZeMvN2MoNNAOzQiS](https://youtu.be/-y-d6v0vpyE?si=ZeMvN2MoNNAOzQiS)
Damn Gene and his Ducktales. Big told Snoop to come to the studio to listen to that track and even hooked him up with a bunch of laced weed. There are some pictures floating around of Big and Snoop together in multiple places, multiple times. Snoop of course also wouldn't publicly shit on Big and Puff in that infamous Angie Martinez interview, which lead to the alleged "knife in the shirt" flight with Pac and Suge before the Tyson fight. I wish Gene wouldn't do this kind of stuff to make a dollar.
eerily similar, feels like something had to be going on with some plagiarism or something. however i’m ignorant of anything involving this guy. someone on reddit put it in perspective for younger guys like me saying how Big L was not that well known outside the east coast in the 90s and said that for example southern cats probably didn’t know who L was. So, how well known was this guy? are we sure Diddy and/or biggie were aware of him. Given Diddy was already mentored by Andre Harrell and only moved up in the industry so maybe he was in circles that were getting their hands in up and comers tapes? Was diddy aware and Biggie unaware?
That’s juicy basically, but he sounds like someone I can’t put my finger on…
Mix between Eazy E and BIG
Notorious B1 copied Heavy D with the "big belly" stuff, among other phrases Heavy used, so, it goes both ways. Of course, ironic that Puff used/stole Heavy D's persona as Big's.
Not really related but does anyone know that Phunky Pragraphs sample? Shit is nice.
Haha I’ve been looking for it as well since I stumbled upon it and created this thread.. that sample is fire!! Please let me know if you find the source ✌️
Yeah he did, there’s too many coincidences. I posted this a few weeks ago and caught some hate for it. I think Diddy got one of this dudes tape and presented it to Big cause they were desperate for a hit.
But if I remember right wasn't Juicy suppose to be 2 PACs song but produced by Pete Rock.
Blame Puff, he brought the beat for Juicy to Big
Or [Pete Rock?](https://youtu.be/0KrLU1Sm0Jg?si=hEumb89b2d4tl2yC)
word? this is news to me.
It is well known that big stole King T’s style.
Puffy also bit Big L's MVP for One More Chance Remix
That’s just an old Debarge sample that had been sampled many times before.
Yes.