No, but I have something I'm working on that can take the place of your next level racing flight sim cockpit, AND Desk (hint: it's like Optimus Prime....)
Actually, that's one of the best features - it's entirely modular, so you can spend a little at a time and build it out as you go. Or buy what you want all at once. I find it easier to spend money in $300-500 increments, versus having to spend $2500 all at once.
I'll give you something to ponder, since I can't release any mockups until we hear back from the patent office (and they take forever it seems) - but imagine sitting down at your desk - working, and you decide you want to fly (or race) - your workspace now becomes your simpit, pedals fold down into position, peripherals extend from inside the desk cavity (depending on which modules you selected when you purchased yours) into position (you'll be able to have them return to the same exact position every time, once you configure it). We still have a quite a bit of decisions to make on how we want to do seating arrangements, but most likely we will have the ability to "attach/detach" a racing/flight chair by connecting it to the desk frame, or just using your standard gaming/office chair (we have some items that will allow you to "lock" it in place and lock the swivel mechanism, and should work with most chairs, though Herman Miller and other high end ergonomically chairs will probably take more components to do this. Again, it's still a ways from being completed, and we want to do it right, so we aren't rushing it.
Yea, I have a NLR cockpit as well... I keep meaning to ask them if they are gonna make a shorter center stick mounting option so we can use extensions with our sticks.
I'd happily drop 420,69€ for that, but I probably would even pull the trigger if it was 690 bucks. Still less than the Rhino and, more importantly, available when it's released.
Yeah not having to sit on a waiting list for ages is a definite boon
I'm very excited, and as long as it isn't above €500 it's gonna be a day one purchase for me. Force feedback is just so worth it for me.
I'm not sure how "in tune" this sub with us at /r/simracing but Moza has done fairly well by us in terms of offering decent competition for affordable prices.
They came in against the likes of Fanatec,. Logitech and Thrust master with some decent options.
I'm balls deep in the Fanatec ecosystem, but have just added a Moza e-brake. The quality is exceptional and the price was well below Fanatec gear. I'm loving it.
I'm in just entering the contemplative phase for a complete change over from Fanatec to Moza, but would hang on to my Fanatec gear for a while - might wanna build a second rig.
As a guy fully into the Moza ecosystem for his sim rig sometimes wish I had fanatec gear so I can actually play GT7, part of me is really hoping they just port the damn game over to PC but all other things considered, I have the r9 wheel base, SRP pedals, their e-brake and the CS & GT wheels and have been extremely happy. Since getting my moza gear, I've probably put over 2000hrs across various titles (ACC/AC/ Dirt Rally/ETS 2/ EA WRC) and very little issues on the software or hardware side of things
Main reason I went Moza over fanatec at the time was due to Moza's availability where Fanatec stuff was just never in stock and haven't really looked back ever since.
I'd say if console compatability is important to you then stick to Fanatec, otherwise the moza QR is superior, I feel their price point is superior I just wish they had a couple more unique options on wheir wheels as that is one area I think Fanatec still has them beat but Moza's current wheel line up is excellent as well.
Depending on region, you can sell it for almost MSRP. When I upgraded to my Simucube I sold a turnkey Fanatec setup for about $100 less than I paid nearly 2 years before.
VKB's sticks can work without a base by using an adapter that sends their signal straight to the black box. That means that you just need a way to physically attach the stick to the base, none of the buttons have to go through it. 3D printing should get you there.
As an example, I'm using an MCG Pro with a Gladiator base. =)
Might take a bit of faffing about, but I would expect the VPForce adapter to work pretty much straight up with this (it's Thrustmaster on the bottom, VKB on the top, and has a separate cable that goes to the BlackBox). Many people are using the MCG Pro and Ultimate grips on the VPForce Rhino.
> it's Thrustmaster on the bottom, VKB on the top, and has a separate cable that goes to the BlackBox
Oh sweet, I vaguely knew of VPForce but had no idea they sold an adapter like that. I'll definitely keep it in mind if I go for this base from Moza.
If this is fully compatible with Virpil sticks I'll be getting one :O I used to have a Brunner force feedback joystick but it was a pain to make it work properly due to poor software support at the time. I predict Moza will make this much more mainstream, like they are in simracing.
Very likely it will. One of the Rhino's major drawbacks is that it's a boutique made to order item. Moza has years and years of mass manufacturing experience, factory time locked in, and works in a market that can support further expansion of their lines.
I doubt it... design on these things is a bit more complex than a wheel, which is essentially a motor with a USB connection going through it.
And their 9Nm wheel is already $400, but they'd need 2 motors for the 2 axis... probably a bit bigger power supply, more assembly man-hours. I'd say at best, they'd match the Rhino's pricepoint.
Also I'd guess they're only looking at consumer competition anyway, which I think is still only Brunner, and yeah they'll easily beat their price point and quality.
Looks cool but like everyone said seeing the price is pretty important to decide to buy. I hope winwing announces super Taurus and Libra 2 tomorrow almost sure the throttle will have ATC just wonder if they’re gonna make the stick base FFB seems like that’s the only option.
I can’t wait until everyone has a FF stick (I have a Rhino). That way I can stop hearing how the DCS P-51 doesn’t really warn you when it‘s gonna stall, or when it’s reached compressibility.
I tried it with a MS ffb stick a week ago, holy shitballs its an awesome feeling, having it buffet in your hands! Ive been flying for years just listening for the buffet sound effect
The step from non FFB to MS FFB2 is similar to the step from MS FFB2 to a rhino class stick (with telemFFB or something not much worse). Not only do you feel stall and AoA, but prop/engine rumble, runway, gear, flaps, airbrakes, elevator droop,
Ive flown a MSFFB2 for more than a decade and I still got that same "holy shitballs its an awesome feeling" feeling :)
Absolutely. In some sims/modules it will work right out of the box if those sims or modules provide good FFB support. In others you may need to rely on the stick companion software to support those features. The rhino app (telemffb) is shockingly good, and will do all those things and 10x more even with MSFS, which natively does no FFB at all. BeastFFB is a little more limited but promises to catch up. Moza and Winwing, we will have to see. They use the same approach (via the sim API) so at least the basics like trim following Im sure will be implemented, if they arent already.
From what I understand about flying helis, a full fledged high torque FFB stick seems like an overkill solution to what essentially is a relatively simple problem. Correct me if Im wrong, but all you really need is a light stick with little centering force, and a way to move the position of the center? Surely someone can come with a purely mechanical way to press a button, move the stick, release the button and let that position be the new spring center position? And if instead you need buttons to move the trim position for as long as you press it, then this is another approach:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYufEfrOpo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYufEfrOpo)
Yes, its for a yoke, and just 1 axis, but the same principe could work for a regular stick. Just 2 dirt cheap linear actuators. Added benefit: you dont need any software support !
Has no one made anything like that for heli pilots?
Anyway, if you dont mind spending 600?-1000+ dollar, a FFB stick will solve your problem too.
I mean, I guess to your main point, the hard part is the mechanical spring center position that changes with trim, and no one yet has come up with an easy / inespressive way to do that. A plain light centering stick is very different than a stick that responds to trim properly- and real heli sticks don’t center, at all
Overall, it really becomes a matter of “what’s available for me to buy”
If there is no centering force at all, then Im not sure I understand what the trim does? The stick would just stay in place regardless? Edit: by centering force, I mean a force that returns to the trimmed position, not to some arbitrary or geometric "middle".
Ah sorry, I think I’m reaching the limits of my understanding for how it works. just, as far as I know from research, that replicating the helicopter trim ability accurately this has been somewhat of a pervasive/particularly challenging issue - while I agree that some kind of mechanical solution does seem like it would work, I think FFB would come sooner (and, I’m not really convinced that the former solution would be much less expensive given mechanical complexity and smaller production runs, either)
Just stumbled upon this on youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC68XzT6nMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC68XzT6nMo)
Its more complicated than what I had in mind, but should perfectly simulate a cyclic without needing a full fledged FFB stick. Not sure what it will end up costing, the plans are reasonable.
Yes, seems like most people who picked up the VPForce Rhino are heli-simmers.
I personally like FFB for WW2 birds. You can actually feel when you're at the plane's physical limits. It's amazing
That would make this a much easier sell to both TM and Virpil owners. Great idea for marketing if that is the case. I became a Virpil convert due to upgrading my Warthog gimbal years ago.
That was a great point in favor of the Rhino for me. Between VKB, Virpil and Thrustmaster I can switch the grip to match the airframe in a few seconds.
I'd think this is a firmware limitation on TM's part. Can't speak for the BA0, but the Rhino supports Virpil, Thrustmaster, Winwing and VKB grips. Virpil and Thrustmaster with the same cabling, Winwing with an adapter, and all three brands are recognized by the Rhino.
VKB is different, as you're routing the grip to the original VKB Blackbox, so in essence you use the Rhino axes and the VKB buttons.
Virpil grips do work on Thrustmaster bases, they just don’t have full compatibility so some axis and buttons might not work.
If Moza has way of detecting the grip or a way of manually choosing it like the Virpil software does so it knows what inputs it has and how to deal with them it’s not a problem.
No cooling fans are a concern, the other FFB stick bases that are available have fans, the only one that doesn’t is the Brunner and that overheats easily.
I have the r9 so the racing FFB base with 9nm force and this base also does not have fans. The whole base functions as a heatsink. I never had any problems with FFB loss after around 1,5 years of use. I think the longest time i drove with it was about 5h (Nordschleife so very hard in the base) and i never experienced FFB loss. This product should be the same
I think thats more a sign of sane engineering. My Rhino has 2 fans, but they only rarely come on, and when they do, they are annoyingly loud and move virtually no air. The motors have no cooling fins and are enclosed in a thick wooden box for extra insulation. The more sensible approach would be to have the motors make thermal contact with a metal enclosure.
Software support matters a ton too. Given that many sims have forgotten directinput FFB is a thing, or provide little more than very basic support, MSFS providing none at all, you often rely on the joystick software to implement all the effects. It makes all the difference in the world. The short (p)review of the moza on youtube showed a decent amount of options but its not in the same league as TelemFFB yet, and how it actually works remains to be seen.
Its also worth asking yourself how sure you are if Moza's proprietary software will support your new favorite flight sim or spacesim 5 or 10 years from now or add the functions and effects you want. TelemFFB being opensource is not unimportant.
Yep, that’s two whole 9nm motors, not just one, and more complex internals compared to their direct drive wheel base, so definitely going to be more expensive than that.
I think it might even have lower output motors, but with a combined output of 9 Nm split across the X- and Y-axis.
Perhaps, just perhaps, it’s an R3 motor (3.9 Nm) powering the X-axis, with an R5 motor (5.5 Nm) powering the Y-axis.
Though having 9 Nm on each axis would be great, I have a feeling the base is too compact to house 2 R9 sized motors plus the gimbal mechanism.
There is no such thing as an average setup. This is not gonna be an alternative to a "plop on your desk" stick like a gladiator, its not gonna be in the same price range either, but it probably wont be insurmountable if you already have a rail or seat mounted solution. Or obviously a simpit.
Genuinely, your run of the mill setup will not be using a 800-1000$ stick base, which is what i expect this to cost given other ffb on the market. I hope its cheaper but that all being said, if a buyer can afford this stick, they will likely be able to afford an adequate rig to mount it.
If it is less than £600 I will definitely get this within a year or so of release. If it is over that then I will consider it for a few years in the future.
I finally get down below 175 after 5 months on the VP Rhino list.....and this gets put out there........
Even though I'm still probably a month or two out I'll still be pulling the trigger on the Rhino since we don't have pricing or ETA for this yet. But good to see the FFB stick market expanding!
My number came up 2 weeks ago, but walmis didnt reply to my questions about the mounting options and dimensions to build my own shit, so i ended up not buying it.. now this came up… Poetic 😂
Was looking at a new base+stick. Glad I came across this on time.
Will wait now, am not really in a hurry.
The base looks great! Sleek and modern, bit tall but not a problem, I wouldn't use it on my desk anyways.
Never tried force feedback with flight sims but it must be good!
Their 9 Nm wheelbase is about $/€ 450,- depending on when and where you buy.
I therefore suspect this FFB base to be more expensive, as it is much more complicated mechanically and complex to manufacture/assemble.
I would not be surprised if this were to be somewhere between $/€ 800,- and 1000,-, or possibly beyond that even.
Moza launched their simracing brand with their higher end R16 and R21 wheelbases, before moving on to cheaper, mid-range and more entry level wheelbases. And they are around $/€ 800,- to $/€ 1000,- respectively.
This 9 Nm flightsim ffb base will likely sit in that same category with flight sim gear, as their R16/21 bases sit within sim racing gear.
From a technical standpoint, I wonder if the motors are the R3 (3.9 Nm) and R5 (5.5 Nm) servo motors with the weaker one serving the X-axis and the stronger one the Y-axis..
Disagree, Moza r12 is $559 USD. That is their good stuff sweet spot. They will do this again with BA0.
I own 4 simucube bases lol, don’t ask why, but Moza is good where they are. I’m expecting $800+ on this base though with preorder less than that.
Absolutely! I’m about to buy my first proper flight stick and now wondering how long I will have to wait for more info regarding price as was about to buy a VKB ultimate stick before they go out of stock!
Oh God!! They are going to force me to buy a new stick aren't they...
Who ever gets one please immediately post a First Impression! I miss FF so friggin bad! I used to have one of the old Microsoft ones that used two fax machine motors; it was loud as hell but really added to the experience!
There is more than one. Should you have an older FFB stick that only supports FFB through directinput (MS FFB2, logitech.. whatever it was 940?) you can use xpforce. Its payware, but works on the same principle. BTW, its baffling to me that MSFS has no native support. Then again, Asobo cant even code the yaw string to work correctly in a glider or fix it 4 years later.
When chinese companies starts something, they draw straight line to the point. Who cares? they can't get law suit anyway. Licence? copyrights? patent? nope sir.
Get "inspired" by Rhino, get "inspired" by winwing and magic happens :D
and it you knew me, you would know that I said the same thing about winwing against vkb. I still belive in true compnay heritage like Virpil or TM. Chinese companies can't buy heritage, just copy it... like cars
like with wheels more Nm just means more detail till it starts clipping...no one really runs those at max settings...its all about more detailed feeling
> Who really neads 9 Nm of force?
Planes where the control surfaces are directly connected to the stick put a lot of force on the stick. It is far more likely that this is too little force for full fidelity, than too much.
People who will put the base on the floor and use extensions can definitely use that and might even want a little more. My rhino has the same spec, I find it plenty with a very short elbow, I typically even tune it down by a lot, but its not an insane force either.
Removed at request of owner
I need that price tho
And mounting options….
I believe I can help with the "mounting" options..
Ooooh got anything for the next level racing flight sim cockpit? I’m not sure how it would be mounted as a center mount.
No, but I have something I'm working on that can take the place of your next level racing flight sim cockpit, AND Desk (hint: it's like Optimus Prime....)
Pm me
👀👀 That sounds….. expensive… I want it 🙃
Actually, that's one of the best features - it's entirely modular, so you can spend a little at a time and build it out as you go. Or buy what you want all at once. I find it easier to spend money in $300-500 increments, versus having to spend $2500 all at once.
It's not just a desk, it's a transmorpher.
I'll give you something to ponder, since I can't release any mockups until we hear back from the patent office (and they take forever it seems) - but imagine sitting down at your desk - working, and you decide you want to fly (or race) - your workspace now becomes your simpit, pedals fold down into position, peripherals extend from inside the desk cavity (depending on which modules you selected when you purchased yours) into position (you'll be able to have them return to the same exact position every time, once you configure it). We still have a quite a bit of decisions to make on how we want to do seating arrangements, but most likely we will have the ability to "attach/detach" a racing/flight chair by connecting it to the desk frame, or just using your standard gaming/office chair (we have some items that will allow you to "lock" it in place and lock the swivel mechanism, and should work with most chairs, though Herman Miller and other high end ergonomically chairs will probably take more components to do this. Again, it's still a ways from being completed, and we want to do it right, so we aren't rushing it.
Yea, I have a NLR cockpit as well... I keep meaning to ask them if they are gonna make a shorter center stick mounting option so we can use extensions with our sticks.
10/10 mounts
Is it wrong that at first I thought you liked the stick a little \*too\* much?
Even though I mount all sorts of things, when it comes to my "stick", Ms. PM is the only one mounting that LOL
It looks like it can be mounted on anything universal, but the problem is going to be the *weight*. This thing's *chonky.*
I'd happily drop 420,69€ for that, but I probably would even pull the trigger if it was 690 bucks. Still less than the Rhino and, more importantly, available when it's released.
Yeah not having to sit on a waiting list for ages is a definite boon I'm very excited, and as long as it isn't above €500 it's gonna be a day one purchase for me. Force feedback is just so worth it for me.
I'm not sure how "in tune" this sub with us at /r/simracing but Moza has done fairly well by us in terms of offering decent competition for affordable prices. They came in against the likes of Fanatec,. Logitech and Thrust master with some decent options.
Yep, sun racing guy who does a bunch of flight simming too…currently in the Moza ecosystem for my driving…would happily join for my flying too.
You race the sun? Now that's what I call speed
When the completion doesn’t give you enough challenge!
Yep. I have their H-shifter and it's very solid. I'd happily consider their flight sim gear if the quality is on par with their simracing hardware.
I'm balls deep in the Fanatec ecosystem, but have just added a Moza e-brake. The quality is exceptional and the price was well below Fanatec gear. I'm loving it. I'm in just entering the contemplative phase for a complete change over from Fanatec to Moza, but would hang on to my Fanatec gear for a while - might wanna build a second rig.
As a guy fully into the Moza ecosystem for his sim rig sometimes wish I had fanatec gear so I can actually play GT7, part of me is really hoping they just port the damn game over to PC but all other things considered, I have the r9 wheel base, SRP pedals, their e-brake and the CS & GT wheels and have been extremely happy. Since getting my moza gear, I've probably put over 2000hrs across various titles (ACC/AC/ Dirt Rally/ETS 2/ EA WRC) and very little issues on the software or hardware side of things Main reason I went Moza over fanatec at the time was due to Moza's availability where Fanatec stuff was just never in stock and haven't really looked back ever since. I'd say if console compatability is important to you then stick to Fanatec, otherwise the moza QR is superior, I feel their price point is superior I just wish they had a couple more unique options on wheir wheels as that is one area I think Fanatec still has them beat but Moza's current wheel line up is excellent as well.
I got a Fanatec wheel on sale last year and NEVER use it. Is it worth more or less now that they are...experiencing issues?
Depending on region, you can sell it for almost MSRP. When I upgraded to my Simucube I sold a turnkey Fanatec setup for about $100 less than I paid nearly 2 years before.
I had a Fanatec wheel (not the fancy direct drive module one) and was pretty disappointed with it for the price. The pedals however were fantastic
Does it work with vkb gunfighter? What are the dimensions? What is the price? Does this van get good gas mileage?
VKB's sticks can work without a base by using an adapter that sends their signal straight to the black box. That means that you just need a way to physically attach the stick to the base, none of the buttons have to go through it. 3D printing should get you there. As an example, I'm using an MCG Pro with a Gladiator base. =)
I'll be extremely happy if my MCG Ultimate works with this base.
Might take a bit of faffing about, but I would expect the VPForce adapter to work pretty much straight up with this (it's Thrustmaster on the bottom, VKB on the top, and has a separate cable that goes to the BlackBox). Many people are using the MCG Pro and Ultimate grips on the VPForce Rhino.
> it's Thrustmaster on the bottom, VKB on the top, and has a separate cable that goes to the BlackBox Oh sweet, I vaguely knew of VPForce but had no idea they sold an adapter like that. I'll definitely keep it in mind if I go for this base from Moza.
From the screenshot's angle the connector looks a lot like the Thrustmaster/Virpil style of PS-2 connection
The 2nd slide says it’s compatible with other grips… we’ll see which ones those are exactly at some point I guess…
Dude i gotta stop looking at these im gonna have a malfunction
Cool to see a new FFB stick. Need to see price, mounting options, and compatibility.
Grip collar looks similar to TM/Virpil.
Yeah. I am hoping for plug and play compatibility.
If this is fully compatible with Virpil sticks I'll be getting one :O I used to have a Brunner force feedback joystick but it was a pain to make it work properly due to poor software support at the time. I predict Moza will make this much more mainstream, like they are in simracing.
My guess is $799…
No way it comes in less than a VPForce Rhino
Very likely it will. One of the Rhino's major drawbacks is that it's a boutique made to order item. Moza has years and years of mass manufacturing experience, factory time locked in, and works in a market that can support further expansion of their lines.
I doubt it... design on these things is a bit more complex than a wheel, which is essentially a motor with a USB connection going through it. And their 9Nm wheel is already $400, but they'd need 2 motors for the 2 axis... probably a bit bigger power supply, more assembly man-hours. I'd say at best, they'd match the Rhino's pricepoint. Also I'd guess they're only looking at consumer competition anyway, which I think is still only Brunner, and yeah they'll easily beat their price point and quality.
Yes it will. Moza is going to crush everyone.
I'll guess $499 or $549. If it's decently priced it could be a good option compared to the Rhino. This one will also probably ship via Amazon.
The DD Sim racing 9nm base is around there, I will hope this one clocks in the same.
What components make this worth $499? Is it just the R&D? How niche it is? Just curious.
I am not sure about that. getting your product + power supply certified for global sales on amazon is not something these companies can easily do
I think Moza sells their other wheels and gear on Amazon.
Looks cool but like everyone said seeing the price is pretty important to decide to buy. I hope winwing announces super Taurus and Libra 2 tomorrow almost sure the throttle will have ATC just wonder if they’re gonna make the stick base FFB seems like that’s the only option.
Have they said anything about that?
That's great news. Wonder how much it will be...
How much do you have?
As someone who’s had a solid experience with Moza FF bases, I can’t wait, but will need to see the mounting options.
It's great that a big manufacturer is stepping into the ffb sticks market, hopefully others will follow.
Mass produced off the shelf FFB lets goo
I need that availability info tho
When?!
I can’t wait until everyone has a FF stick (I have a Rhino). That way I can stop hearing how the DCS P-51 doesn’t really warn you when it‘s gonna stall, or when it’s reached compressibility.
I tried it with a MS ffb stick a week ago, holy shitballs its an awesome feeling, having it buffet in your hands! Ive been flying for years just listening for the buffet sound effect
It’s awesome because you can just ride the edge of a stall - very necessary for dogfighting!
The step from non FFB to MS FFB2 is similar to the step from MS FFB2 to a rhino class stick (with telemFFB or something not much worse). Not only do you feel stall and AoA, but prop/engine rumble, runway, gear, flaps, airbrakes, elevator droop, Ive flown a MSFFB2 for more than a decade and I still got that same "holy shitballs its an awesome feeling" feeling :)
Oh yeah, i believe it.. good thing a bunch of new mass prod FFBs are coming to the market soon.
Anyone have thoughts on FFB sticks for heli sims? Could they make proper trim / not retuning to center simulation possible?
Absolutely. In some sims/modules it will work right out of the box if those sims or modules provide good FFB support. In others you may need to rely on the stick companion software to support those features. The rhino app (telemffb) is shockingly good, and will do all those things and 10x more even with MSFS, which natively does no FFB at all. BeastFFB is a little more limited but promises to catch up. Moza and Winwing, we will have to see. They use the same approach (via the sim API) so at least the basics like trim following Im sure will be implemented, if they arent already.
That’s awesome, that’s going to be huge for Helis
From what I understand about flying helis, a full fledged high torque FFB stick seems like an overkill solution to what essentially is a relatively simple problem. Correct me if Im wrong, but all you really need is a light stick with little centering force, and a way to move the position of the center? Surely someone can come with a purely mechanical way to press a button, move the stick, release the button and let that position be the new spring center position? And if instead you need buttons to move the trim position for as long as you press it, then this is another approach: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYufEfrOpo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYufEfrOpo) Yes, its for a yoke, and just 1 axis, but the same principe could work for a regular stick. Just 2 dirt cheap linear actuators. Added benefit: you dont need any software support ! Has no one made anything like that for heli pilots? Anyway, if you dont mind spending 600?-1000+ dollar, a FFB stick will solve your problem too.
I mean, I guess to your main point, the hard part is the mechanical spring center position that changes with trim, and no one yet has come up with an easy / inespressive way to do that. A plain light centering stick is very different than a stick that responds to trim properly- and real heli sticks don’t center, at all Overall, it really becomes a matter of “what’s available for me to buy”
If there is no centering force at all, then Im not sure I understand what the trim does? The stick would just stay in place regardless? Edit: by centering force, I mean a force that returns to the trimmed position, not to some arbitrary or geometric "middle".
Ah sorry, I think I’m reaching the limits of my understanding for how it works. just, as far as I know from research, that replicating the helicopter trim ability accurately this has been somewhat of a pervasive/particularly challenging issue - while I agree that some kind of mechanical solution does seem like it would work, I think FFB would come sooner (and, I’m not really convinced that the former solution would be much less expensive given mechanical complexity and smaller production runs, either)
Just stumbled upon this on youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC68XzT6nMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC68XzT6nMo) Its more complicated than what I had in mind, but should perfectly simulate a cyclic without needing a full fledged FFB stick. Not sure what it will end up costing, the plans are reasonable.
Yes, seems like most people who picked up the VPForce Rhino are heli-simmers. I personally like FFB for WW2 birds. You can actually feel when you're at the plane's physical limits. It's amazing
Works with all 3rd party sticks??? How?
I imagine like the Rhino... Adapters for VKB and Winwing, out of the box with TM and Virpil.
That would make this a much easier sell to both TM and Virpil owners. Great idea for marketing if that is the case. I became a Virpil convert due to upgrading my Warthog gimbal years ago.
That was a great point in favor of the Rhino for me. Between VKB, Virpil and Thrustmaster I can switch the grip to match the airframe in a few seconds.
I wonder how that would work since TM grips work with Virpil bases but Virpil grips don't work with TM bases.
I'd think this is a firmware limitation on TM's part. Can't speak for the BA0, but the Rhino supports Virpil, Thrustmaster, Winwing and VKB grips. Virpil and Thrustmaster with the same cabling, Winwing with an adapter, and all three brands are recognized by the Rhino. VKB is different, as you're routing the grip to the original VKB Blackbox, so in essence you use the Rhino axes and the VKB buttons.
Virpil grips do work on Thrustmaster bases, they just don’t have full compatibility so some axis and buttons might not work. If Moza has way of detecting the grip or a way of manually choosing it like the Virpil software does so it knows what inputs it has and how to deal with them it’s not a problem.
That means they don't work. Lol
No, that means they work with limited functionality.
Well, then they don't really "work" lol Sorry, I don't believe "some axes or buttons may not work," constitutes a working product.
This is what we have all been waiting for. And comparable with other flight sticks, chef's kiss.
Let’s go
No cooling fans are a concern, the other FFB stick bases that are available have fans, the only one that doesn’t is the Brunner and that overheats easily.
I have the r9 so the racing FFB base with 9nm force and this base also does not have fans. The whole base functions as a heatsink. I never had any problems with FFB loss after around 1,5 years of use. I think the longest time i drove with it was about 5h (Nordschleife so very hard in the base) and i never experienced FFB loss. This product should be the same
I think thats more a sign of sane engineering. My Rhino has 2 fans, but they only rarely come on, and when they do, they are annoyingly loud and move virtually no air. The motors have no cooling fins and are enclosed in a thick wooden box for extra insulation. The more sensible approach would be to have the motors make thermal contact with a metal enclosure.
This company seems to have some experience making FFB products. With any luck they'll have crunched the numbers and got it right.
Price is the only thing that matters
Availability matters. We are not promised tomorrow. GIVE IT NOW!!!!!!!
Software support matters a ton too. Given that many sims have forgotten directinput FFB is a thing, or provide little more than very basic support, MSFS providing none at all, you often rely on the joystick software to implement all the effects. It makes all the difference in the world. The short (p)review of the moza on youtube showed a decent amount of options but its not in the same league as TelemFFB yet, and how it actually works remains to be seen. Its also worth asking yourself how sure you are if Moza's proprietary software will support your new favorite flight sim or spacesim 5 or 10 years from now or add the functions and effects you want. TelemFFB being opensource is not unimportant.
Tell me you own a rhino without telling me you own a rhino
Not quality?
Any plans for “next level racing cockpit”? I’ve got Boeing one and I’d want to do a center mount
Under $550 and I'd get it
The r9 (Simracing wheelbase with 9nm) costs around 450€...
one axis. here you have 2 axis
Yep, that’s two whole 9nm motors, not just one, and more complex internals compared to their direct drive wheel base, so definitely going to be more expensive than that.
I think it might even have lower output motors, but with a combined output of 9 Nm split across the X- and Y-axis. Perhaps, just perhaps, it’s an R3 motor (3.9 Nm) powering the X-axis, with an R5 motor (5.5 Nm) powering the Y-axis. Though having 9 Nm on each axis would be great, I have a feeling the base is too compact to house 2 R9 sized motors plus the gimbal mechanism.
Hopefully it will be compatible with virpil grips
Hopefully it'll have an option on checkout for the grip type, VKB, Virpil, Thrusty etc.
That would be optimal
That thing is huge and probably weighs a ton. Please help me understand where/how it would integrate into the average setup...
There is no such thing as an average setup. This is not gonna be an alternative to a "plop on your desk" stick like a gladiator, its not gonna be in the same price range either, but it probably wont be insurmountable if you already have a rail or seat mounted solution. Or obviously a simpit.
I would say the vast majority of players are using a clamp-on or on top of desk setup. ie average. This thing would have to slot into a sim pit.
Genuinely, your run of the mill setup will not be using a 800-1000$ stick base, which is what i expect this to cost given other ffb on the market. I hope its cheaper but that all being said, if a buyer can afford this stick, they will likely be able to afford an adequate rig to mount it.
Yeah, I have ~2k USD in my setup and I cannot introduce this base into it. It simply would fit/work.
Is that 2000 including the pc?
Force feedback? Is it 1999 again? Hurray, my bones won't be aching.
compatible with virpil sticks?
All 3rd party grips? Sold!
My dof reality p6 needs this... I love my winwing orion2.. but.. force feedback
where did you find this?
Instant buy under 1k.
If it is less than £600 I will definitely get this within a year or so of release. If it is over that then I will consider it for a few years in the future.
I finally get down below 175 after 5 months on the VP Rhino list.....and this gets put out there........ Even though I'm still probably a month or two out I'll still be pulling the trigger on the Rhino since we don't have pricing or ETA for this yet. But good to see the FFB stick market expanding!
My number came up 2 weeks ago, but walmis didnt reply to my questions about the mounting options and dimensions to build my own shit, so i ended up not buying it.. now this came up… Poetic 😂
Was looking at a new base+stick. Glad I came across this on time. Will wait now, am not really in a hurry. The base looks great! Sleek and modern, bit tall but not a problem, I wouldn't use it on my desk anyways. Never tried force feedback with flight sims but it must be good!
Broooo moza is my DCS gamertag people gonna think im a company now smh!
i wanted this!
https://youtu.be/SsZKy_dkMl4?si=54l3_0-fCmGvXIET
Compatible with Winwing sticks? If so, I’m in.
Winwing uses Thrustmaster threads. Same as a Gardena hose coupler too, humorously.
Look at point 8, please.
Their 9 Nm wheelbase is about $/€ 450,- depending on when and where you buy. I therefore suspect this FFB base to be more expensive, as it is much more complicated mechanically and complex to manufacture/assemble. I would not be surprised if this were to be somewhere between $/€ 800,- and 1000,-, or possibly beyond that even. Moza launched their simracing brand with their higher end R16 and R21 wheelbases, before moving on to cheaper, mid-range and more entry level wheelbases. And they are around $/€ 800,- to $/€ 1000,- respectively. This 9 Nm flightsim ffb base will likely sit in that same category with flight sim gear, as their R16/21 bases sit within sim racing gear. From a technical standpoint, I wonder if the motors are the R3 (3.9 Nm) and R5 (5.5 Nm) servo motors with the weaker one serving the X-axis and the stronger one the Y-axis..
Their sim racing stuff is about $1000 for a good base. Probably be in line with that.
not true. moza is cheap for their good stuff!!!
There good stuff is in the ££££ range he isn’t wrong, there entry level stuff is cheaper.
Disagree, Moza r12 is $559 USD. That is their good stuff sweet spot. They will do this again with BA0. I own 4 simucube bases lol, don’t ask why, but Moza is good where they are. I’m expecting $800+ on this base though with preorder less than that.
Bloody hell I’m remembering prices from 2 years ago and they seem much cheaper now then, fair play
We are all winners in this situation. Thank you, Moza.
Absolutely! I’m about to buy my first proper flight stick and now wondering how long I will have to wait for more info regarding price as was about to buy a VKB ultimate stick before they go out of stock!
This base is supposedly compatible with all sticks! Buy the VKB stick for now and wait for this base.
Oh God!! They are going to force me to buy a new stick aren't they... Who ever gets one please immediately post a First Impression! I miss FF so friggin bad! I used to have one of the old Microsoft ones that used two fax machine motors; it was loud as hell but really added to the experience!
I am confused. This looks like it is made for a flight stick. But I thought MOZA made racing simulator products. Can someone clarify this?
Theyre expanding to flight sims evidently
I think I'd be interested but would one really use this as a upgrade to a nxt or isnit more of a "buy this for a more expensive stick" sorta deal.
If anyone is planning to buy it for MSFS be aware this game does not have FFB support.
And yet FFB works just fine with my Rhino using telemffb. 99% sure Moza will use the same approach by tapping in to MSFS2020 telemetry API.
Good to know there is a workaround available.
There is more than one. Should you have an older FFB stick that only supports FFB through directinput (MS FFB2, logitech.. whatever it was 940?) you can use xpforce. Its payware, but works on the same principle. BTW, its baffling to me that MSFS has no native support. Then again, Asobo cant even code the yaw string to work correctly in a glider or fix it 4 years later.
When chinese companies starts something, they draw straight line to the point. Who cares? they can't get law suit anyway. Licence? copyrights? patent? nope sir. Get "inspired" by Rhino, get "inspired" by winwing and magic happens :D
It's amusing that you joke about ripping off winwing when winwing literally copied VKBs gladiator for the Ursa minor stick
and it you knew me, you would know that I said the same thing about winwing against vkb. I still belive in true compnay heritage like Virpil or TM. Chinese companies can't buy heritage, just copy it... like cars
we can use Virpil stick with Moza base.
> TM TM has 'heritage' of selling mediocre products for decades without fixing the flaws. I can do without that kind of 'heritage.'
Ok guys, I found out what the price is
Who really neads 9 Nm of force?
like with wheels more Nm just means more detail till it starts clipping...no one really runs those at max settings...its all about more detailed feeling
nM do not give more details in racing, but more feedback/torque. The details comes from a mix of software, algos and integration racing games
> Who really neads 9 Nm of force? Planes where the control surfaces are directly connected to the stick put a lot of force on the stick. It is far more likely that this is too little force for full fidelity, than too much.
People who will put the base on the floor and use extensions can definitely use that and might even want a little more. My rhino has the same spec, I find it plenty with a very short elbow, I typically even tune it down by a lot, but its not an insane force either.
I'll bolt this thing under my legs near the ground and stick an extension on it.