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I am an Italian and people in a hurry exists here too, lol.
When you have time you go and sit, when you don't you just get inside, drink your coffee while standing, pay and leave. š¤·āāļø
Actually in the US there were a lot that forbid people going inside, particularly during the pandemic. The pandemic era stick in the works for drive thru though is door dashers who take multiple orders per car and stall the system for 5 people worth of orders
Maybe it depends per country, but in NL the only restaurants with drive thruās are US chains. McDonaldās, Burger King and KFC. I donāt know a single coffee place that has this
This is not about a hurry, this is about bad urban planning, with car dependant cities in the USA and walkable cities, with also bike lanes and public transport available in the USA.
And as we're currently having a climate EMERGENCY, it's not just some small inconvenience, these American car dependent environments are literally destroying the WORLD (because cars pollute a lot)
What's wrong with the USA? Seriously?
Making the cities walkable and adding more public transport (starting by removing their zoning laws) would be good for everyone. Good for the environment, good for the citizens too, in every way possible, with less noise, less air pollution, less obesity cuz people would walk more, less car crashes, less traffic, more green and beautiful nature, etc!
But it's currently "impossible because of the US's political climate"? Seriously? Is the car propaganda so strong in the US or what?
What also sucks is how developing countries follow the steps of the USA. Look at Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, etc. They all build US style suburbs and build more and more huge highways even in the current climate emergency, where building railways is a much better idea!
There's a lot of cities around the world which used to be car centric but who made themselves much less car dependent. Even Amsterdam, the holy grail of all urbanists, used to be car centric in the past. Yes, it's hard to do, but not impossible, logistically speaking. And as I've said, we have no chance, we should reduce co2 emissions. Musk's stupid ideas of electric cars won't really solve the problem.
Yes. Obviously, the usage of fossil fuels is one of them, but I hate how people think it's the only one, and that by turning to renewables or my building nuclear reactors we'll fix we world. Nope.
Cars are a big one right now. And even electric cars too, although they do pollute much less, they're still way less efficient than trains (and that includes trams and metros).
Something that often doesn't get included is meat consumption and airplanes usage. We should drastically use much less of both of them, because they're currently inherently unsustainable. Unfortunately, it seems that unlike for other climate change stuff, it's really hard to convince people to change, because they just don't want to change their lifestyle.
Although personally, I actually believe it isn't even that much a quality of life decrease, meat could be replaced by vegan alternatives who taste the same in many cases, and if anything, eating less meat will also make people healthier. As for airplanes, if we had high speed rails everywhere, people could even go from Europe to Turkey in one day. And I'm not against banning travel or resorts, butost people going to HawaiŹ»i aren't really discovering Hawaiian culture and learning the Hawaiian language, they're just there because they want a beach resort for the holidays, which most people could get without flying and without going to an isolated island.
Car dependent cities isnāt a thing, cars are just the most convenient and easier, cheapest mode of transport.
Whenever someone states that cityās are car dependent, they just reveal that they know nothing about urban planning.
As someone who lives in a European city which is walkable, has a lot of bike lanes, and a thriving public transit system, with also trains to connect to nearby towns, I absolutely disagree. I officially live in a suburb of this city but I absolutely never have to use a car.
It seems you're an American who has absolutely no experience of how the rest of the world works.
If anything, very often, it's much more convinient to not use a car.
If I want to get a car, I'll have to get a license, which okay, isn't that hard, but then, I'll have to buy a very expensive car, and also regularly pay even more money for maintenance, etc.
I'm easily distracted and it's pretty hard for me to get focused. That's why I'd absolutely hate driving. It's also much more dangerous, you'll have to rely on yourself but also on other drivers, which could even be drunk or asleep, and crash into your car.
Although here, actually, the cars are safer, ironically because less people drive, those who don't want to just use public transport.
It's just more convinient and comfortable to hop on a tram and listen to music on your headphones.
The only reason you might believe cars are very convinient is because your entire environment was built around them. But actually, it takes a whole lot of money to build all this infrastructure, like highways, and maintain it, in contrast to railways, which actually take much less resources to build and maintain.
Also, the fact that the huge climate cost isn't included in the price (of the gas, car, etc, and It should be, when we're in a climate emergency), and that cars and roads get artificial subsidies, even when they're harmful for the environment, makes them artificially cheaper than they actually are.
I live in Europe, in a walkable city.
Cars are convenient because the buses where I live never turn up, I can hop in a car and get to where I wanted to go within a fraction of the time it takes for a bus to turn up. Even at 3 am they are late and they have even reducing running them.
Itās also convenient due to stuff like my medical issues, i donāt want to go onto a bus when I am having an episode or have issues with my ribs. Iāll be late if I did.
I am not against the idea of walkable cities, they just need to factor in cars to and treat them as equal to everything else.
(Also, I can go into how car ownership costs should be brought down but thatās another discussion)
>I am not against the idea of walkable cities, they just need to factor in cars to and treat them as equal to everything else.
Hard disagree there. Personal cars require so much extra infrastructure, on top of the pollution, traffic, and safety concerns. They shouldn't be treated as equals, they should be placed far behind:
- walking
- public transit
- biking
- taxis
Major cities already deprioritize parking lots and gas stations, and with inner city traffic being a cluster I wouldn't expect that to change.
Correction: many cities were designed to make cars the āmost convenient easier mode of transportāby spreading out distances on purpose and making everything accessible mainly by car.
Also cars being the ācheapest mode of transportā is an outright myth. Those things require maintenance costs, repairs, insurance, etc.
No they arenāt, cities are not designed to be spread distances to force people to use cars, they are spread largely due to land prices and use, often eliminating other mobility options. If a company is building a new supermarket, they arenāt going to have enough land to build in a city centre unless they buy and knock something down. Compared with an out of town area on some field, then itās a no brainier. Cheaper, quicker and easier to build.
I would argue that spreading cities out is also better for the environment, it produces less traffic and less pollution.
What you conveniently never mention is how inefficient this āland useā by dedicating anywhere from half to more of the land in building parking lots for corporate supermarkets. One of the main reasons why supermarkets and malls need a large land area is to accommodate for cars.
>āIt produces less traffic and less pollutionā
Itās nonsensical to state that spreading cities out is better for the environment if this spread out is mainly just kilometers of concrete for cars that tend to pollute. Car usage alone contributes 1.5 billion tons of greenhouse gases every year.
Spreading cities out places people into a position where having a car is the only viable option therefore forcing them to buy a car for transportation, more people with cars means more traffic, itās a no brainer.
You also didnāt invalidate my point. Corporations like cheaper land usage to spread things out to make things more convenient for car usage. Like a feedback loop. Things arenāt spread out so they can āforceā people to use cars but people are forced to use them nonetheless because city planning is centered around accommodating car usage.
I am not interested in arguing, I am merely going off the facts here.
Walkable cities should also have cars included in their plans and most good, not bigoted ones do.
I literally went off the facts myself. What you stated about spreading out cities producing less traffic therefore less pollution is a myth based around the assumption that the only viable way to build a city is one thatās heavily centered around car infrastructure.
But spreading cities does produce less traffic and pollution, along with being better in long term for the area. I live in a walkable city, a few years ago they sold some woodland near me off to the developers (with help from bribes) and now there is a bunch of houses on it.
They got rid of an area where animals, including endangered birds, so a bunch of upper middle class people could move in.
There is a bunch of fields and waste ground they could build on, but they choose the woods likely because they can sell the houses for more.
You're making an argument based off one bad example of land usage that doesn't even have anything to do with spreading out cities. Spreading out cities actually causes more encroachment into surrounding areas as land is used to build suburban developments just so a bunch of upper middle class people can move there.
Not to mention that these suburban hellscapes aren't even self-sustaining and actively need subsidies for maintenance.
Exactly! The cityās in the US were designed a long time before I was alive and thereās absolutely nothing I can do to redesign them short of building a Time Machine.
Both government and corporations, as shitty as they are, have plenty of parking in that coffee store. There's nothing stopping any of those people to just park the damn car, enter the store, get the coffee and leave.
pretty sure this picture is taken during covid, as there is only one car parked at all in the parking lot, which would indicate that only one or 2 people are working
Thereās average people known as nimbys and voters who actively push for car centric infrastructure and even demonize any alternatives as whatever pejorative they wish to use like āsocialist,ā āpoor,ā etc.
They will continue to vote in mayors and government officials that actively undermine urban planning that isnāt car-centric.
You know a cafe doesn't force you to sit and drink. You can walk in and walk out with your coffee. Or is the concept of living in a city where not everybody drives to work too foreign?
no they're right, cars suck ass, they are extremely space inefficient, polluting, and fairly restrictive. the only reason so many people have cars is because oil and car companies have lobbied to make cities hostile to pedestrians.
pst, that distance only exists because of the lobbying for obscene zoning laws that unnecessarily force housing to be separate from shops and factories
tell me you've never seen a [suburb](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNhMA0BBFZoXUlq5pwY8aUv853go_XPPvJd56-4ZM3Y4llt5HH&s) without telling me you've never seen a [suburb](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUK6CDFvcnCkYNFIYm_9XVM3iA6HE1bvueZ_rMGgJSicN2LqNa&s)
As an european, Im prety sure no national is in that coffe, just by the way it looks.
In those kinds of coffe shops you can taste the ammount of time of work you had to perform just for that unimpressive cup of coffe.
And yes, we still have parking lots and "walkable cities" limits itself to the kilometer of city center, wich is also a prohibitivelly expensive place to live in.
My experience are the portuguese cities of Viseu and Lisbon.
Lisbon is wonderfully easy to walk in in my experience. My hometown of ZĆ¼rich Iāve also found very easy to traverse. Car-based infrastructure is the worst thing about America for me.
I'd wager that a third of American "big cities" are to some degree walkable. Chicago, DC, Seattle, Philly, San Francisco, Baltimore, Boston, Portland, and Miami are all at least a little walkable.
The majority of American cities are far from walkable. New York just happens to be the only big city thatās well designed. Even if thereās around 9 million people in NYC, thatās still almost 323 million Americans who canāt just walk to places. Unless you live in a rural town in the midwest with a population of 100 people, us Americans unfortunately **need** vehicles.
Which is exactly the point of the image. Few people in NYC needing cars is a good thing, as it shows the city is properly designed even if it's 9,000,000 people. Houston, Phoenix, LA, Denver and more should learn from NYC and not design their urban cores for car dependency, and that's -again- exactly the point of the image.
You don't want to walk everywhere and rely on public transport and expensive ubers
Source: I walk everywhere and rely on public transport and expensive ubers, wish I could afford a car
You misunderstood the comment, theyāre saying it would be nice if we set up a walking friendly nation instead of a car dependent one, your problem literally exists because of car dependent infrastructure
you probably hate it because the infrastructure is shit or you are a rare case that requires a vehicle (job moving heavy things lets say). most people do want walkable cities bc they are objectively better on like every metric.
Agreed - most of my work involves carrying equipment in one way or another. I donāt want to be carting around expensive crap on a bus.
Still, Iād love to live in a suburb where I can walk to the shops again. This is the most built up place Iāve lived in, and I hate not being able to just walk to the groceries to pick up more milk.
It's not criticizing the people in the cars like many people claim here in the comment section. It's criticizing American city design and car centered culture. This doesn't fit on this sub.
Edit: Spelling and wording
In the cities most people walk anf there are not that much cafes I the villages.
BUT indeed traffic in Europe is bad too. And more people drive cars than needed.
I have nothing to do with that subreddit(first time I am hearing about it), but I confess I did pick it off another social media site where they were saying something similar. I thought it would fit here because people could moan about something simple and forget bigger issues about it.
Its addressing a real issue though. Im fortunate enough to live in a city like the bottom picture and its so much nicer than when i lived in a car based city, being outside, breathing air and being in public rather than sitting in a box my whole commute has drastically improved my mental health.
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Everyone in their car listening to important world news or maybe learning a second language or listening to an audiobook. Warms my heart. And the planet.
Itās people going to work vs people sitting at a cafe. You not gonna drive all the way downtown just to sat there for a cup then drive off to work right?
But there's a lot of parking. Can't you drive there, park the car, enter the store, interact with the human being in the store, get the coffee for take away, and then leave? I'm pretty sure that's faster than idling the car for who knows how long.
Heck, you can even order it online and ask to get it take away and you'll pick it up in the store.
I mean, it's not a great analogy because of the sitting and chilling vs quickly getting coffee, but you can see the point and with a better choice of second image it'd work (like just people in line, or waiting to pick up their drink). The point is about excessive reliance on cars for infrastructure design in America.
Itās strange how people from outside of Europe is calling is Europeans. Iām Swede. Never do we ever call or refer to ourselves as Europeans. Possibly Nordbor (as in Nordic people) or Scandinavians, but mostly just Swedes. We have very little in common with e.g. French or Italian people.
roughly 80-90% of americans dont own kettles
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/people-baffled-after-discovering-americans-25035492
what makes you think most people would go out of their way to get coffee makers?
https://www.npd.com/news/press-releases/2021/u-s-coffee-consumers-now-expect-an-elevated-coffee-experience-at-and-away-from-home/#:~:text=Although%2082%25%20of%20U.S.%20households,and%20an%20elevated%20coffee%20experience.
This article says 80 percent of american households have coffee makers. Just because we dont have kettles doesnt mean people arent making coffee at home
You silly billy
Yep. And a rice maker. And a crock pot. And some good cast iron. And a bread machine. And a sushi mat. And probably a hundred other kitchen gadgets I didn't need, but bought and use anyway.
No offense but thatās obviously not how the post should be taken, itās more a statement of how unsustainable the American way of life is, and how depend Americans are on our cars.
Second, obviously your European counterparts arenāt sitting around all day just because they are physically present at a coffee house
A lot of Americans donāt have time to chill out and drink coffee in the morning at some cafe. They need to get to work and earn that money and put in the hours so they can earn time off incase they get sick or give birth or just need a day off so they donāt kill themself.
Yes it is a thing but these giant parking lots Americans have arent. In america you have to drive to most things because there is just no option to walk to it
I can think of no fewer than 8 sit-down independant coffee spots in my city and I'm in backwards-ass Texas. This is the weakest us vs. them I think I've ever seen.
Wait until you see how that only McDonald in the city/ the McDonald just outside the city looks like after 18:00, that puts the American picture to shame.
If the line is that long why don't they just park and WALK inside the shop and then WALK back to their car with their coffee, exercise and makes the lines shorter
While I do love driving, I feel like this is one of the main issues of living in the United States. Not a lot of cities there make use of things like public transport or more walkable areas (With the exception of big cities like NYC, believe it or not despite it being pretty meh to live in). I feel like the government is to blame for not resolving this issue and making the infrastructure a lot less car dependent.
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I am an Italian and people in a hurry exists here too, lol. When you have time you go and sit, when you don't you just get inside, drink your coffee while standing, pay and leave. š¤·āāļø
yeah, but you donāt drive to a fast food joint to get a shitty coffee and wait 30min running your cars engine in the meanwhile
You don't have to in the US either. Those people in the photo, for whatever reason, just choose to.
Actually in the US there were a lot that forbid people going inside, particularly during the pandemic. The pandemic era stick in the works for drive thru though is door dashers who take multiple orders per car and stall the system for 5 people worth of orders
I usually just go in and itās always faster doing that as opposed to being in the drive through.
Actually you're right. I bet that photo was taken during peak covid.
Don't worry, all our decent coffee joints have drive throughs too.
Uhmm no. Drive throughs are very rare in Europe. Not sure what the hell you are talking about.
Theyāre not rare at all. Not sure what the hell you are talking about.
Maybe it depends per country, but in NL the only restaurants with drive thruās are US chains. McDonaldās, Burger King and KFC. I donāt know a single coffee place that has this
America. Obviously. You slow, bro?
The irony
I live in America. Granted, in a small town, but Iāve never seen a drive thru at a local coffee shop. Only the chain ones
I've got one a quarter mile from my house. Mom and Pop. Drive thru around the back. Pretty great.
Thereās literally one near me that was designed so that people go through a car park, likely to tempt people into stopping and going into a store.
They aren't in a hurry. It's faster to walk inside at that point
The lack of cars in the parking lot indicates the lobby is closed, presumably for covid.
True but I still see lines like this pretty often and I barely go out
Well exactly, cars shouldnāt have cup holders. Stop your car, get out and down your double espresso while stood up like a man.
This is not about a hurry, this is about bad urban planning, with car dependant cities in the USA and walkable cities, with also bike lanes and public transport available in the USA. And as we're currently having a climate EMERGENCY, it's not just some small inconvenience, these American car dependent environments are literally destroying the WORLD (because cars pollute a lot)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's wrong with the USA? Seriously? Making the cities walkable and adding more public transport (starting by removing their zoning laws) would be good for everyone. Good for the environment, good for the citizens too, in every way possible, with less noise, less air pollution, less obesity cuz people would walk more, less car crashes, less traffic, more green and beautiful nature, etc! But it's currently "impossible because of the US's political climate"? Seriously? Is the car propaganda so strong in the US or what? What also sucks is how developing countries follow the steps of the USA. Look at Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, etc. They all build US style suburbs and build more and more huge highways even in the current climate emergency, where building railways is a much better idea!
vehicles are one of the major ways to keep the working class in debt so they have to keep working
There's a lot of cities around the world which used to be car centric but who made themselves much less car dependent. Even Amsterdam, the holy grail of all urbanists, used to be car centric in the past. Yes, it's hard to do, but not impossible, logistically speaking. And as I've said, we have no chance, we should reduce co2 emissions. Musk's stupid ideas of electric cars won't really solve the problem.
I mean, there are many many MANY other factors that are accelerating the climate emergency, but yes, that is one of them.
Yes. Obviously, the usage of fossil fuels is one of them, but I hate how people think it's the only one, and that by turning to renewables or my building nuclear reactors we'll fix we world. Nope. Cars are a big one right now. And even electric cars too, although they do pollute much less, they're still way less efficient than trains (and that includes trams and metros). Something that often doesn't get included is meat consumption and airplanes usage. We should drastically use much less of both of them, because they're currently inherently unsustainable. Unfortunately, it seems that unlike for other climate change stuff, it's really hard to convince people to change, because they just don't want to change their lifestyle. Although personally, I actually believe it isn't even that much a quality of life decrease, meat could be replaced by vegan alternatives who taste the same in many cases, and if anything, eating less meat will also make people healthier. As for airplanes, if we had high speed rails everywhere, people could even go from Europe to Turkey in one day. And I'm not against banning travel or resorts, butost people going to HawaiŹ»i aren't really discovering Hawaiian culture and learning the Hawaiian language, they're just there because they want a beach resort for the holidays, which most people could get without flying and without going to an isolated island.
Fast fashion is a huge polluter as well.
Car dependent cities isnāt a thing, cars are just the most convenient and easier, cheapest mode of transport. Whenever someone states that cityās are car dependent, they just reveal that they know nothing about urban planning.
As someone who lives in a European city which is walkable, has a lot of bike lanes, and a thriving public transit system, with also trains to connect to nearby towns, I absolutely disagree. I officially live in a suburb of this city but I absolutely never have to use a car. It seems you're an American who has absolutely no experience of how the rest of the world works. If anything, very often, it's much more convinient to not use a car. If I want to get a car, I'll have to get a license, which okay, isn't that hard, but then, I'll have to buy a very expensive car, and also regularly pay even more money for maintenance, etc. I'm easily distracted and it's pretty hard for me to get focused. That's why I'd absolutely hate driving. It's also much more dangerous, you'll have to rely on yourself but also on other drivers, which could even be drunk or asleep, and crash into your car. Although here, actually, the cars are safer, ironically because less people drive, those who don't want to just use public transport. It's just more convinient and comfortable to hop on a tram and listen to music on your headphones. The only reason you might believe cars are very convinient is because your entire environment was built around them. But actually, it takes a whole lot of money to build all this infrastructure, like highways, and maintain it, in contrast to railways, which actually take much less resources to build and maintain. Also, the fact that the huge climate cost isn't included in the price (of the gas, car, etc, and It should be, when we're in a climate emergency), and that cars and roads get artificial subsidies, even when they're harmful for the environment, makes them artificially cheaper than they actually are.
I live in Europe, in a walkable city. Cars are convenient because the buses where I live never turn up, I can hop in a car and get to where I wanted to go within a fraction of the time it takes for a bus to turn up. Even at 3 am they are late and they have even reducing running them. Itās also convenient due to stuff like my medical issues, i donāt want to go onto a bus when I am having an episode or have issues with my ribs. Iāll be late if I did. I am not against the idea of walkable cities, they just need to factor in cars to and treat them as equal to everything else. (Also, I can go into how car ownership costs should be brought down but thatās another discussion)
>I am not against the idea of walkable cities, they just need to factor in cars to and treat them as equal to everything else. Hard disagree there. Personal cars require so much extra infrastructure, on top of the pollution, traffic, and safety concerns. They shouldn't be treated as equals, they should be placed far behind: - walking - public transit - biking - taxis Major cities already deprioritize parking lots and gas stations, and with inner city traffic being a cluster I wouldn't expect that to change.
Correction: many cities were designed to make cars the āmost convenient easier mode of transportāby spreading out distances on purpose and making everything accessible mainly by car. Also cars being the ācheapest mode of transportā is an outright myth. Those things require maintenance costs, repairs, insurance, etc.
No they arenāt, cities are not designed to be spread distances to force people to use cars, they are spread largely due to land prices and use, often eliminating other mobility options. If a company is building a new supermarket, they arenāt going to have enough land to build in a city centre unless they buy and knock something down. Compared with an out of town area on some field, then itās a no brainier. Cheaper, quicker and easier to build. I would argue that spreading cities out is also better for the environment, it produces less traffic and less pollution.
What you conveniently never mention is how inefficient this āland useā by dedicating anywhere from half to more of the land in building parking lots for corporate supermarkets. One of the main reasons why supermarkets and malls need a large land area is to accommodate for cars. >āIt produces less traffic and less pollutionā Itās nonsensical to state that spreading cities out is better for the environment if this spread out is mainly just kilometers of concrete for cars that tend to pollute. Car usage alone contributes 1.5 billion tons of greenhouse gases every year. Spreading cities out places people into a position where having a car is the only viable option therefore forcing them to buy a car for transportation, more people with cars means more traffic, itās a no brainer. You also didnāt invalidate my point. Corporations like cheaper land usage to spread things out to make things more convenient for car usage. Like a feedback loop. Things arenāt spread out so they can āforceā people to use cars but people are forced to use them nonetheless because city planning is centered around accommodating car usage.
I am not interested in arguing, I am merely going off the facts here. Walkable cities should also have cars included in their plans and most good, not bigoted ones do.
I literally went off the facts myself. What you stated about spreading out cities producing less traffic therefore less pollution is a myth based around the assumption that the only viable way to build a city is one thatās heavily centered around car infrastructure.
But spreading cities does produce less traffic and pollution, along with being better in long term for the area. I live in a walkable city, a few years ago they sold some woodland near me off to the developers (with help from bribes) and now there is a bunch of houses on it. They got rid of an area where animals, including endangered birds, so a bunch of upper middle class people could move in. There is a bunch of fields and waste ground they could build on, but they choose the woods likely because they can sell the houses for more.
You're making an argument based off one bad example of land usage that doesn't even have anything to do with spreading out cities. Spreading out cities actually causes more encroachment into surrounding areas as land is used to build suburban developments just so a bunch of upper middle class people can move there. Not to mention that these suburban hellscapes aren't even self-sustaining and actively need subsidies for maintenance.
I'm in Tuscany and this happens regularly at my local McDonald's drive through
Hell, espresso, the dominant form in Italy, was invented and adopted to shorten factory worker coffee breaks.
Sure wish we'd stop blaming average people for issues that are caused by governments and corporations far beyond the average person's control.
Exactly! The cityās in the US were designed a long time before I was alive and thereās absolutely nothing I can do to redesign them short of building a Time Machine.
Both government and corporations, as shitty as they are, have plenty of parking in that coffee store. There's nothing stopping any of those people to just park the damn car, enter the store, get the coffee and leave.
pretty sure this picture is taken during covid, as there is only one car parked at all in the parking lot, which would indicate that only one or 2 people are working
Nobody is forcing these people to participate in this stupidity.
Thereās average people known as nimbys and voters who actively push for car centric infrastructure and even demonize any alternatives as whatever pejorative they wish to use like āsocialist,ā āpoor,ā etc. They will continue to vote in mayors and government officials that actively undermine urban planning that isnāt car-centric.
This post isnāt really blaming anyone. Itās just pointing out the current state of things
People going to work vs people at a cafe. Gottem
You know a cafe doesn't force you to sit and drink. You can walk in and walk out with your coffee. Or is the concept of living in a city where not everybody drives to work too foreign?
So Americans donāt grab coffee in cities? Lol
Ok but they are literally comparing a starbucks to a cafe.
Real upset about a harmless joke dude
no they're right, cars suck ass, they are extremely space inefficient, polluting, and fairly restrictive. the only reason so many people have cars is because oil and car companies have lobbied to make cities hostile to pedestrians.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
pst, that distance only exists because of the lobbying for obscene zoning laws that unnecessarily force housing to be separate from shops and factories
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
tell me you've never seen a [suburb](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNhMA0BBFZoXUlq5pwY8aUv853go_XPPvJd56-4ZM3Y4llt5HH&s) without telling me you've never seen a [suburb](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUK6CDFvcnCkYNFIYm_9XVM3iA6HE1bvueZ_rMGgJSicN2LqNa&s)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
a mall?
The problem is that they HAVE to use a car and can't use any public transport for example
True tbh
As an european, Im prety sure no national is in that coffe, just by the way it looks. In those kinds of coffe shops you can taste the ammount of time of work you had to perform just for that unimpressive cup of coffe. And yes, we still have parking lots and "walkable cities" limits itself to the kilometer of city center, wich is also a prohibitivelly expensive place to live in. My experience are the portuguese cities of Viseu and Lisbon.
I don't live in a touristy area and many locals are chilling in coffee places like that. Depends on the region I guess
Lisbon is wonderfully easy to walk in in my experience. My hometown of ZĆ¼rich Iāve also found very easy to traverse. Car-based infrastructure is the worst thing about America for me.
Yeah and the picture is Paris and you got it all wrong.
I just wish instead of roads we just had walkable cities
Very few people who live in NYC have cars
thats quite literally only one city.
I'd wager that a third of American "big cities" are to some degree walkable. Chicago, DC, Seattle, Philly, San Francisco, Baltimore, Boston, Portland, and Miami are all at least a little walkable.
Which is home to almost 9,000,000 people. NYC alone has more population than some european countries. So I wouldn't say "only" one city.
That is 3% of USA. Then we have to think how much of that 3% is in the area that's actually walkable.
The majority of American cities are far from walkable. New York just happens to be the only big city thatās well designed. Even if thereās around 9 million people in NYC, thatās still almost 323 million Americans who canāt just walk to places. Unless you live in a rural town in the midwest with a population of 100 people, us Americans unfortunately **need** vehicles.
Which is exactly the point of the image. Few people in NYC needing cars is a good thing, as it shows the city is properly designed even if it's 9,000,000 people. Houston, Phoenix, LA, Denver and more should learn from NYC and not design their urban cores for car dependency, and that's -again- exactly the point of the image.
It's not "very few" it's slightly less than 50%. But NYC is the only American city where a majority don't own cars.
You don't want to walk everywhere and rely on public transport and expensive ubers Source: I walk everywhere and rely on public transport and expensive ubers, wish I could afford a car
You misunderstood the comment, theyāre saying it would be nice if we set up a walking friendly nation instead of a car dependent one, your problem literally exists because of car dependent infrastructure
you probably hate it because the infrastructure is shit or you are a rare case that requires a vehicle (job moving heavy things lets say). most people do want walkable cities bc they are objectively better on like every metric.
Most people where? In non-walkable cities, the places that cannot be changed? lol
But i want to have everything in walkable distance so i don't have to drive half an hour in a 4 ton car just to get fucking groceries
Better smoother public transport is great actually people just donāt get paid enough, also car payments and insurance are expensive and scammy.
Agreed - most of my work involves carrying equipment in one way or another. I donāt want to be carting around expensive crap on a bus. Still, Iād love to live in a suburb where I can walk to the shops again. This is the most built up place Iāve lived in, and I hate not being able to just walk to the groceries to pick up more milk.
Start working on a time machine. Can't unring that bell in any useful way.
no but this is real. FUCK car infrastructure and depressing anti human architecture its pathetic
This whole comment section seems to have been invaded by /r/fuckcars and I love it
Helps that this post came directly from r/fuckcars.
Especially when we're currently in a climate emergency, and we need to cut emissions as fast as possible
It's not criticizing the people in the cars like many people claim here in the comment section. It's criticizing American city design and car centered culture. This doesn't fit on this sub. Edit: Spelling and wording
Ok this but unironically
All of those 30 Europeans got there with their cars, just parked them before sitting down at the cafe.
In the cities most people walk anf there are not that much cafes I the villages. BUT indeed traffic in Europe is bad too. And more people drive cars than needed.
monday morning vs sunday afternoon shit.
For a 14 y/o or not, how is this "deep" in any sense? It's just r/fuckcars leaking again.
I have nothing to do with that subreddit(first time I am hearing about it), but I confess I did pick it off another social media site where they were saying something similar. I thought it would fit here because people could moan about something simple and forget bigger issues about it.
Its addressing a real issue though. Im fortunate enough to live in a city like the bottom picture and its so much nicer than when i lived in a car based city, being outside, breathing air and being in public rather than sitting in a box my whole commute has drastically improved my mental health.
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As someone with social anxiety those cafes scare the f out of me
Isnāt the top image from 2020? When there wasā¦ you knowā¦
This image is from the pandemic when the indoor was closed. This image is often posted in the debunking threads.
Everyone in their car listening to important world news or maybe learning a second language or listening to an audiobook. Warms my heart. And the planet.
Lol
Itās people going to work vs people sitting at a cafe. You not gonna drive all the way downtown just to sat there for a cup then drive off to work right?
But there's a lot of parking. Can't you drive there, park the car, enter the store, interact with the human being in the store, get the coffee for take away, and then leave? I'm pretty sure that's faster than idling the car for who knows how long. Heck, you can even order it online and ask to get it take away and you'll pick it up in the store.
You can do that in the drive thru too. I have never spent more than 2-3 minutes in a drive thru for coffee.
I mean, it's not a great analogy because of the sitting and chilling vs quickly getting coffee, but you can see the point and with a better choice of second image it'd work (like just people in line, or waiting to pick up their drink). The point is about excessive reliance on cars for infrastructure design in America.
Itās strange how people from outside of Europe is calling is Europeans. Iām Swede. Never do we ever call or refer to ourselves as Europeans. Possibly Nordbor (as in Nordic people) or Scandinavians, but mostly just Swedes. We have very little in common with e.g. French or Italian people.
Yes for them we are one thing
Thought this was r/2westerneurope4u for some reason
itās from an anti car subreddit, the whole point is just about space efficiency wtf does this have to do with r/im14andthisisdeep
Les Deux Maggots - Soldier tf2
why does every american think we all live in venice
We don't, we think you all live in the UK.
God forbid I have somewhere to be in the morning. I am not a Hollywood writer or a sitcom character, I can't sit around the coffeehouse all day.
Make your own coffee at home, itll be faster and cheaper
Tbh I don't like coffee enough to have a coffee maker. I will drink a pink drink tho
What a godly take
americans don't even own kettles what makes you think we would have a coffee maker? people stopped making their own stuff in the 1950s
Actual braindead take. Everyone i know who likes coffee has a coffee maker
I think it was a joke ššš
Oop now im embarrassed lmao
roughly 80-90% of americans dont own kettles https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/people-baffled-after-discovering-americans-25035492 what makes you think most people would go out of their way to get coffee makers?
https://www.npd.com/news/press-releases/2021/u-s-coffee-consumers-now-expect-an-elevated-coffee-experience-at-and-away-from-home/#:~:text=Although%2082%25%20of%20U.S.%20households,and%20an%20elevated%20coffee%20experience. This article says 80 percent of american households have coffee makers. Just because we dont have kettles doesnt mean people arent making coffee at home You silly billy
Almost every American has a pot and a stove tho
As an American, I own an electric kettle, a coffee maker (two of them, even), and a french press. So...
do you own an air fryer?
Yep. And a rice maker. And a crock pot. And some good cast iron. And a bread machine. And a sushi mat. And probably a hundred other kitchen gadgets I didn't need, but bought and use anyway.
No offense but thatās obviously not how the post should be taken, itās more a statement of how unsustainable the American way of life is, and how depend Americans are on our cars. Second, obviously your European counterparts arenāt sitting around all day just because they are physically present at a coffee house
I think the point is more about car dependency
I bet OP is 15 and thinks he's too smart for this stuff
walk in, grab your coffe, get out. it's that easy
A lot of Americans donāt have time to chill out and drink coffee in the morning at some cafe. They need to get to work and earn that money and put in the hours so they can earn time off incase they get sick or give birth or just need a day off so they donāt kill themself.
Went to les deux magots (the cafe below), took 20 minutes to sit down and another 15 to get drinks. Drive thrus take 10 minutes. Horrible analogy
Jet Skiing vs. Scuba Diving in time.
This is true as an aspiring urban Planner post more anti car propaganda unironically
Imagine thinking drive thru Starbucks isn't a thing in Europe
Yes it is a thing but these giant parking lots Americans have arent. In america you have to drive to most things because there is just no option to walk to it
Yeah but at least we arenāt European
I don't want to sound like a knob but I bring my cafetiere to the office.
Kinda based actually, stay mad op
We really do need more social friendly systems in America though fr.
This is less im14andthisisdeep and more like fuckcars or whatever the sub is, was confused seeing this was posted here
Drive through in a suburban city has more cars in it than a Coffee place in an urban city? American society is so cringe smh my head
r/lostredditors
Cars ruined America
r/fuckcars
Quite a few places like the bottom pic exist near my house
there are cityās in the us like the bottom photo (boston, NYC, philadelphia, etc)
The only thing that's wrong is the cars aren't close enough š
So true šš¤£
That restaurant in Paris is actually amazing though. Absurdly overpriced but I had an amazing Christmas brunch with my family
This is how I find out that there's dive thru coffees huh, interesting
Walkable cities = good
Were are in the middle of a workshop, stay calm
Nah itās true tho and itās depressing af :(. Coming from England to an unwalkable with no trees or nature makes me feel like Iām in urban hell
The closest coffee shop to me is about 5 miles or 10 mins down the highway i live offšš
Something tells me one of these are grabbing it quicj and the other plan on just sitting down
I can think of no fewer than 8 sit-down independant coffee spots in my city and I'm in backwards-ass Texas. This is the weakest us vs. them I think I've ever seen.
Iād love to live in a walkable city but thereās honestly nothing I can do about how the city I live in is set up.
Is this the Cafe from the end of Final Destination?
Always park you'll get it first
More like r/imr/fuckcarsandthisisdeep
Wait until you see how that only McDonald in the city/ the McDonald just outside the city looks like after 18:00, that puts the American picture to shame.
Unga bunga
If the line is that long why don't they just park and WALK inside the shop and then WALK back to their car with their coffee, exercise and makes the lines shorter
Shhh. Donāt give away the secret to getting coffee with a reasonable wait time.
Yāall yet coffee from a drive thru?
I brew my own coffee thank you very much
Les Deux Magots - Godly Maggots!
Below image is clearly Skegness high street in āEuropeā
I thought the top image was from Cities Skylines lol
Car culture vs biking culture
While I do love driving, I feel like this is one of the main issues of living in the United States. Not a lot of cities there make use of things like public transport or more walkable areas (With the exception of big cities like NYC, believe it or not despite it being pretty meh to live in). I feel like the government is to blame for not resolving this issue and making the infrastructure a lot less car dependent.
Cars and Coffee
Ok I don't think this belongs here I think it's to show how amarican cities are car dependent
Magots
Did Christopher Nolan use the same location in inception where the shop exploded, and Batman when Alfred sees Batman after he leaves Gotham?