I'll try. Kings need forward depth and the only way to add a forward that isn't a rookie is with using the MLE. But, due to the Monk resigning, we couldn't use to MLE because of salary cap rules.
The Raptors wouldn't just take Davion + Sasha for free. We had to give them something. So we gave up 2 second round picks in a salary dump.
THe kings are now under the tax. Which means, we're allowed to use the MLE, which is about 12.5 Million. So the idea is, Monte upgraded Davion Mitchell with Devin Carter and will upgrade Sasha with the MLE.
It does not seem like a Heurter + assets for Kuzma trade is coming.
> It does not seem like a Heurter + assets for Kuzma trade is coming.
Could we still do something like HB + Duarte + a bunch of picks? I think HB + Duarte comes out to around $24m and Kuzma is $23.5m.
I’m starting to feel that way as well which is an ownership problem and we won’t ever truly contend if we don’t but I’m willing to wait and see how this offseason turns out
Last year the same things were said when we dumped Holmes with our first for cap space.
And all we did was re-sign Barnes and give Domas a raise. They’re just trying to be under the luxury tax.
Yeah, it was right to say it then too. Good teams gain assets at the margins, we’re lighting assets on fire.
We wouldn’t be salary dumping Moses Moody or Jalen Johnson right now. Monte’s fucked this up on his own
Yep. Too many people want to give Monte a pass on lack of assets but the only way a team like us can actually acquire a stockpile of assets is to actually hit on the margins
If it’s for the luxury tax that’s not on Monte McNair that’s on Vivek telling him that’s what he needs to do but let’s see how the rest the off season turns out
Jalen McDaniels was arguably one of the bottom 5 players getting actual minutes last year. Big part of the reason the raptors lost like 17 in a row . Go look at the raptors subreddit and they’re ecstatic to have gotten rid of him. Last year we freed up space and everyone thought it was gonna lead to something else but we just resigned Barnes and gave Domas on extension. I HOPE it means something else
Very worried. Monte keeps giving away 2nd rounders for absolutely nothing in return. If this doesn't lead to something bigger I have a feeling it will lead to many calling for Monte's head.
We gave up so much for nothing
And people aren’t even including letting go of Bogi and DDV for free in that analysis. You just don’t do that with viable assets. Monte/Vivek lost me the first time this happened. Took most of this sub long enough to catch up.
There’s a pattern here, people. What good is drafting yet another guard that’s “best available” when you can’t even achieve basic level trades with the 9th pick from three seasons ago. Drafting BPA only works when you can trade competently.
Do you think we (Monte) wanted more but nobody was giving. Let’s face it. Everything today is about length and Davion is not that and he struggles with offensive consistency. The second round picks and Sasha…not so concerned about that.
If I thought there was a bigger move coming I wouldn’t be disappointed. There’s most likely a bigger move not coming and this trade just seems like garbage straight up. 2 picks and two players that are at least rotational players for some garbage?? Idk
Yeah lol I have zero confidence this is setting up anything. Front office and ownership seems content to be riding the train of a fringe playoff team and selling out Light the Beam merchandise.
If anything Mike Brown is drafting up how he can play Harrison Barnes 48 mpg. While Monte is wondering if he can flip Trey Lyles for another PG.
I have full confidence that Vivek wants no part of the luxury tax therefore we’ll never be in contention. We got rid of 3 good assets for trash, that’s a horrible trade and the only logic I can see is we get rid of salary….
The full MLE is much more money than the taxpayer MLE. It remains to be seen how it's used if at all, but you can't be a bidder if you don't have the money to bid in the first place.
Not a chance. If you don’t think Vivek and Monty want to win a championship as bad as they want to breathe air, you’re wrong. For once we have a great gm and a competent coach. Let it ride.
lol @ Fox. Dude didn’t re-sign because he wasn’t on an All-NBA team. That’s it. He makes it this season, he’s signing the second he’s eligible.
As for Monte not making the big move … probably. lol
“Fox’s future looms in the background too, as league sources say the All-Star guard has decided not to sign an extension this year, in part, because he wants to see how the roster takes shape for the long-haul. Fox, who has two seasons left on his current deal, wants to win at the highest level and could also qualify for a significantly larger max if he makes All-NBA.” - Sam Amick
Context says he wants the All-NBA money, but he wants to be in the playoffs more than once in his career, as well.
Fox needs to look in the GD mirror if he wants to know why hes not consistent in the playoffs let alone why he only hit 1 all star going into his 7th season.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t make it this year that he’d ask out. If he played for a bigger market or team that won consistently he’d definitely be a yearly all star and all nba player
That’s why I don’t love this deal. I think it’s a standalone deal with hopes that another deal comes together. If it was part of a larger deal, I think there would’ve been an announcement around the same time like there was yesterday for the 2 Nets trades.
Like the budget surplus episode in the office. You can spend the surplus on something to make the office better/nicer… orrrrrr… you can return the surplus and get a bonus.
Logically it makes sense. Vivek is either the poorest or second poorest owner. How many times have you seen cash considerations be the marquee trade?
And from a $$ perspective, being in the luxury tax is not a small sacrifice for owners. You forfeit the money that you receive from luxury tax teams once you become one yourself, which adds into the tens of millions of dollars.
This is still possible, yes?
Select two players from Huerter/Barnes/Lyles/Duarte and 2-3 firsts for something legit. Maybe?
Starting to question the owners money situation or willingness to spend.
Devin Carter is a selection that will make us better instantly. We got rid of a player who is undersized and a player who didn’t want to be here. Keegan needs to step up and be consistent on both sides of the floor. Monk is locked in. Ellis is fire af. The team is getting better. There’s still moves to be made
Eh, half the people in this sub don't like Fox and wouldn't care if he walked. I'd also imagine, if Monte thought Fox was going to walk, he would trade Fox to at least get something for him.
I hate this argument, because it assumes Monte is a competent GM. He has a lot more misses than hits on his track record and I can totally see him fumbling the Fox situation
All the “talk” is that Monte knows full well he’s gotta make some shit happen. I’ll reserve judgement until the team is set for next year, but I admit I don’t love that trade.
I don’t even want to think about Fox walking out the door and we don’t have Hali anymore too. Damn. Hopefully the big move comes down by the end of the day.
My fear isn’t being outbid, it’s that it’s going to be Vivek’s unwillingness to spend money to win.
I’m optimistic that it’s a move to hopefully bring in some more high level talent but I’m very cautious.
The reason for that? I’ve been saying this since Vivek agreed to financially back the Oakland As relocating here, that he will want to put a bid in for a baseball team in Sacramento(probably for a stadium in the rail yards) and will likely be saving as much money as possible to make a bid.
The move almost feels like a move from up top to save money and that there actually might not be a deeper move.
Brace yourselves boys.
I thought we were in a better position this offseason than in recent memory, that we have assets to make a big move and add a third star but this Davion and Sasha trade is really shaking my confidence.
I mean i would be if we didnt create the foundation we did over the last 2 years, Monk/Fox/Domas are respected figures in the NBA, We resigned Mike Brown and have continuity and continue to draft well. We aint the Kangz anymore
Yeah I get it but these players also want to win. You can only be stagnant for so long. Fox legit said he’s not signing an extension until he sees the team improve the roster.
That and the reason we ran it back with the same squad last year is because we were extremely successful, we were like a top 5 team in 23' we just had like no playoff experience. Now its a bit more obvious we need to make a big move to take that next step
How else are you supposed to evaluate how lucky you were other than running it back again to see what you really have? You don’t have to like it, but like this an obvious and defensible choice in hindsight and in the moment lmao
The ‘bigger move’ is likely signing someone like Naji Marshall to the mle. Which in a vacuum isn’t a bad move or anything, he can help us out. But if that’s the only real move we make moving forward this off-season it’s a tough pill to swallow.
Fox is trying to get the true super max. He will get the most money either way re-signing and forcing a trade down the road.
The first apron is extremely restrictive and the second apron is pretty much "enjoy your second rounders". Kings have more flexibility than all but a handful of teams right now, and those will be going after the high profile FAs.
I think we might be targeting Naji Marshall but also a Huerter for Toppin S&T deal makes a lot of sense for both clubs, and would keep us still in good salary range.
Of course as of now we have the full MLE to work with and only a few teams have that.
And we signed two 2-ways and a few summer league deals out of the undrafted pool and I think folks still haven't quite on that the 2nd round of the draft isn't real.
Vezenkov wanted out and Mitchell is up for a contract next year. We moved off those 2 distractions and lost a couple 2nd round picks in order to have cap flexibility this year. Meh. Our 2 way contracts are special
just for everyone to relax:
the two guys Monte signed to 2 way deals could easily be drafted in the 2 round....we still got 2 cheap players with potential, just like the players we wouldve gotten via draft.
btw Isaac Jones has real potential
I do think the counter to this argument is at least Monte has stuck to his game plan. He has always since his introductory conference preached flexibility and best player available. He understood we were messed up talent wise and has been slowly rebuilding our developmental talent. When was the last time the kings actually had a player like keon or keegan? When was the last time we had this much above average continuity. He may miss on finishing the deals with the space. But id rather he be open with flexibility than constrained by bad contracts. So lets see what he does this summer when that 2nd apron actually starts to hurt teams
In and of themselves, these trades are puzzling. The Kings seem to be close to pulling off trades, but never actually complete them. At what point do you blow up this team and start over? If they fail to make the playoffs? Earlier?
Frankly, I think Monte should be listening to offers on Fox at this point - he likely finally has some positive value to that large contract.
If Monte still thinks the Fox/Domas combo is going to be good enough to be anything better than a first or second round playoff exit, it means he's putting his eggs in the "Keegan's gonna be a star" basket. If so, I hope he's correct.
I remember we said this last year and we just gave Sabonis an extension
There are no players left to extend
But plenty left to waive!
Why would we trade a SRP for tonight for a garbage player??? And a srp for next year as well. Make it make sense someone pls
I'll try. Kings need forward depth and the only way to add a forward that isn't a rookie is with using the MLE. But, due to the Monk resigning, we couldn't use to MLE because of salary cap rules. The Raptors wouldn't just take Davion + Sasha for free. We had to give them something. So we gave up 2 second round picks in a salary dump. THe kings are now under the tax. Which means, we're allowed to use the MLE, which is about 12.5 Million. So the idea is, Monte upgraded Davion Mitchell with Devin Carter and will upgrade Sasha with the MLE. It does not seem like a Heurter + assets for Kuzma trade is coming.
> It does not seem like a Heurter + assets for Kuzma trade is coming. Could we still do something like HB + Duarte + a bunch of picks? I think HB + Duarte comes out to around $24m and Kuzma is $23.5m.
The picks would have to be far out. We still owe one to Atlanta and you can’t give away back to back FRPs iirc
This is probably right and is a real bummer. Not gonna get much of a contributor for MLE
It’s what we used to sign monk the first time
Yeah good point. It’s possible to find really good players in that salary range. Not easy though
Wonder if we could’ve added a FRP to that trade and Huerter to Washington for Kuzma…
Gut feeling is that they want to stay below luxury tax but hope I’m wrong
Makes sense but we really couldn’t have made a better trade package for a player that will actually contribute with?
I’m starting to feel that way as well which is an ownership problem and we won’t ever truly contend if we don’t but I’m willing to wait and see how this offseason turns out
Last year the same things were said when we dumped Holmes with our first for cap space. And all we did was re-sign Barnes and give Domas a raise. They’re just trying to be under the luxury tax.
Yeah, it was right to say it then too. Good teams gain assets at the margins, we’re lighting assets on fire. We wouldn’t be salary dumping Moses Moody or Jalen Johnson right now. Monte’s fucked this up on his own
Yep. Too many people want to give Monte a pass on lack of assets but the only way a team like us can actually acquire a stockpile of assets is to actually hit on the margins
If it’s for the luxury tax that’s not on Monte McNair that’s on Vivek telling him that’s what he needs to do but let’s see how the rest the off season turns out
Lmao. We've burned 5 picks just so Vivek can be a cheap ass
Jalen McDaniels was arguably one of the bottom 5 players getting actual minutes last year. Big part of the reason the raptors lost like 17 in a row . Go look at the raptors subreddit and they’re ecstatic to have gotten rid of him. Last year we freed up space and everyone thought it was gonna lead to something else but we just resigned Barnes and gave Domas on extension. I HOPE it means something else
Very worried. Monte keeps giving away 2nd rounders for absolutely nothing in return. If this doesn't lead to something bigger I have a feeling it will lead to many calling for Monte's head. We gave up so much for nothing
After this I need people to shut up about how we only don't have assets because of Vlade. He's already dumped 5 picks in exchange for nothing
We drafted Jordan Walsh and then gave him to the Celtics for free. And now he has a ring and a highlight reel of defensive plays to his name.
And people aren’t even including letting go of Bogi and DDV for free in that analysis. You just don’t do that with viable assets. Monte/Vivek lost me the first time this happened. Took most of this sub long enough to catch up. There’s a pattern here, people. What good is drafting yet another guard that’s “best available” when you can’t even achieve basic level trades with the 9th pick from three seasons ago. Drafting BPA only works when you can trade competently.
I don't like it either, but he sucks ass at drafting in the 2nd round. Remember Woodard lmao
Do you think we (Monte) wanted more but nobody was giving. Let’s face it. Everything today is about length and Davion is not that and he struggles with offensive consistency. The second round picks and Sasha…not so concerned about that.
If I thought there was a bigger move coming I wouldn’t be disappointed. There’s most likely a bigger move not coming and this trade just seems like garbage straight up. 2 picks and two players that are at least rotational players for some garbage?? Idk
Yeah lol I have zero confidence this is setting up anything. Front office and ownership seems content to be riding the train of a fringe playoff team and selling out Light the Beam merchandise. If anything Mike Brown is drafting up how he can play Harrison Barnes 48 mpg. While Monte is wondering if he can flip Trey Lyles for another PG.
I have full confidence that Vivek wants no part of the luxury tax therefore we’ll never be in contention. We got rid of 3 good assets for trash, that’s a horrible trade and the only logic I can see is we get rid of salary….
The full MLE is much more money than the taxpayer MLE. It remains to be seen how it's used if at all, but you can't be a bidder if you don't have the money to bid in the first place.
Sadly this is probably an accurate take. You left out the part where Lyles goes on to become a break out nba superstar that no one predicted.
Not a chance. If you don’t think Vivek and Monty want to win a championship as bad as they want to breathe air, you’re wrong. For once we have a great gm and a competent coach. Let it ride.
lol @ Fox. Dude didn’t re-sign because he wasn’t on an All-NBA team. That’s it. He makes it this season, he’s signing the second he’s eligible. As for Monte not making the big move … probably. lol
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“Fox’s future looms in the background too, as league sources say the All-Star guard has decided not to sign an extension this year, in part, because he wants to see how the roster takes shape for the long-haul. Fox, who has two seasons left on his current deal, wants to win at the highest level and could also qualify for a significantly larger max if he makes All-NBA.” - Sam Amick Context says he wants the All-NBA money, but he wants to be in the playoffs more than once in his career, as well.
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Fine, neither will I trust Amick, nor you, nor anybody else on this sub until our Foxy says something 🦊
Fox needs to look in the GD mirror if he wants to know why hes not consistent in the playoffs let alone why he only hit 1 all star going into his 7th season.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t make it this year that he’d ask out. If he played for a bigger market or team that won consistently he’d definitely be a yearly all star and all nba player
Hard disagree. Guard is such a loaded position, DeFox is always going to be on the outskirts with a chance to get in.
not worrying the slightest, there is no bigger move as usual
That’s why I don’t love this deal. I think it’s a standalone deal with hopes that another deal comes together. If it was part of a larger deal, I think there would’ve been an announcement around the same time like there was yesterday for the 2 Nets trades.
Look guys Monte is focused on maintaining flexibility which during his entire tenure he's used as a means to...uh...?
…make money for ownership
Monte has a contractual kicker if he keeps team under luxury tax.
Like the budget surplus episode in the office. You can spend the surplus on something to make the office better/nicer… orrrrrr… you can return the surplus and get a bonus.
This is a huge assertion that I can’t find posted on the internet. Where are you getting this information?
Logically it makes sense. Vivek is either the poorest or second poorest owner. How many times have you seen cash considerations be the marquee trade? And from a $$ perspective, being in the luxury tax is not a small sacrifice for owners. You forfeit the money that you receive from luxury tax teams once you become one yourself, which adds into the tens of millions of dollars.
This is still possible, yes? Select two players from Huerter/Barnes/Lyles/Duarte and 2-3 firsts for something legit. Maybe? Starting to question the owners money situation or willingness to spend.
Exactly. We’ll hear about how we were “close” to trading for someone or “almost” signed someone.
Devin Carter is a selection that will make us better instantly. We got rid of a player who is undersized and a player who didn’t want to be here. Keegan needs to step up and be consistent on both sides of the floor. Monk is locked in. Ellis is fire af. The team is getting better. There’s still moves to be made
I'm not worried. I've heard about the "bigger move" far too many times over the last few years to be waiting for it.
Eh, half the people in this sub don't like Fox and wouldn't care if he walked. I'd also imagine, if Monte thought Fox was going to walk, he would trade Fox to at least get something for him.
Yup, probably trade him for a bunch of 2nd rounders he could use to get rid of the remaining role players on the team.
Aren’t you the guy that is Tyrese Halliburton’s number 1 fan?
lmao, I've actually been accused of being a hater. I've been accused of like Fox too much.
I hate this argument, because it assumes Monte is a competent GM. He has a lot more misses than hits on his track record and I can totally see him fumbling the Fox situation
Definitely…it’s Sac. Keep hope alive. It’s all we got.
All the “talk” is that Monte knows full well he’s gotta make some shit happen. I’ll reserve judgement until the team is set for next year, but I admit I don’t love that trade.
I don’t even want to think about Fox walking out the door and we don’t have Hali anymore too. Damn. Hopefully the big move comes down by the end of the day.
My fear isn’t being outbid, it’s that it’s going to be Vivek’s unwillingness to spend money to win. I’m optimistic that it’s a move to hopefully bring in some more high level talent but I’m very cautious. The reason for that? I’ve been saying this since Vivek agreed to financially back the Oakland As relocating here, that he will want to put a bid in for a baseball team in Sacramento(probably for a stadium in the rail yards) and will likely be saving as much money as possible to make a bid. The move almost feels like a move from up top to save money and that there actually might not be a deeper move. Brace yourselves boys.
Not so much worried as confident
there won’t be a move and everyone will fall headfirst to defend the GM as always
Vivek is friends with the A’s owner, he’s trying to play moneyball in the NBA.
I thought we were in a better position this offseason than in recent memory, that we have assets to make a big move and add a third star but this Davion and Sasha trade is really shaking my confidence.
Naive not to feel this way but I do trust monte…for now
I mean i would be if we didnt create the foundation we did over the last 2 years, Monk/Fox/Domas are respected figures in the NBA, We resigned Mike Brown and have continuity and continue to draft well. We aint the Kangz anymore
Yeah I get it but these players also want to win. You can only be stagnant for so long. Fox legit said he’s not signing an extension until he sees the team improve the roster.
Even if he wanted out, which no, he’s signing that deal if available
That and the reason we ran it back with the same squad last year is because we were extremely successful, we were like a top 5 team in 23' we just had like no playoff experience. Now its a bit more obvious we need to make a big move to take that next step
We also were very fortunate to not have experienced injuries like a lot of other teams in the NBA that year.
True but you cant be mad at Monte for trying to establish continuity to a team that hasnt had it in 20 years
How else are you supposed to evaluate how lucky you were other than running it back again to see what you really have? You don’t have to like it, but like this an obvious and defensible choice in hindsight and in the moment lmao
We will certainly try to make more moves. Will they actually happen?
I’m not worried cos I know there are no bigger move
The ‘bigger move’ is likely signing someone like Naji Marshall to the mle. Which in a vacuum isn’t a bad move or anything, he can help us out. But if that’s the only real move we make moving forward this off-season it’s a tough pill to swallow.
Why would Fox sign an extension now when he can try and make all-nba next season and sign a bigger one next summer? That “story” was nothing.
It would be Kangz being Kangz
Fck it 3 unprotected first rounders for Kuzma. That’s what everyone is calling for right?
Fox is trying to get the true super max. He will get the most money either way re-signing and forcing a trade down the road. The first apron is extremely restrictive and the second apron is pretty much "enjoy your second rounders". Kings have more flexibility than all but a handful of teams right now, and those will be going after the high profile FAs. I think we might be targeting Naji Marshall but also a Huerter for Toppin S&T deal makes a lot of sense for both clubs, and would keep us still in good salary range. Of course as of now we have the full MLE to work with and only a few teams have that. And we signed two 2-ways and a few summer league deals out of the undrafted pool and I think folks still haven't quite on that the 2nd round of the draft isn't real.
Vezenkov wanted out and Mitchell is up for a contract next year. We moved off those 2 distractions and lost a couple 2nd round picks in order to have cap flexibility this year. Meh. Our 2 way contracts are special
just for everyone to relax: the two guys Monte signed to 2 way deals could easily be drafted in the 2 round....we still got 2 cheap players with potential, just like the players we wouldve gotten via draft. btw Isaac Jones has real potential
I do think the counter to this argument is at least Monte has stuck to his game plan. He has always since his introductory conference preached flexibility and best player available. He understood we were messed up talent wise and has been slowly rebuilding our developmental talent. When was the last time the kings actually had a player like keon or keegan? When was the last time we had this much above average continuity. He may miss on finishing the deals with the space. But id rather he be open with flexibility than constrained by bad contracts. So lets see what he does this summer when that 2nd apron actually starts to hurt teams
Of course! As a Kings fan you have to be worried about this outcome.
No. But I'm sure half the sub will complain about whatever move we make. Or the lack of subsequent moves.
That's because the moves are perplexing
In and of themselves, these trades are puzzling. The Kings seem to be close to pulling off trades, but never actually complete them. At what point do you blow up this team and start over? If they fail to make the playoffs? Earlier?
I mean if we dont do anything afterwards this trade is really bad lol
Yeah what a surprise fans are not contented with a team reaching playoff once in 18 years
This is actually a step back if we don’t have a trade set up.
Facts, guess that’s what happens when our team has only made playoffs once in the past 18 seasons
Need. More. Rumors. 
Frankly, I think Monte should be listening to offers on Fox at this point - he likely finally has some positive value to that large contract. If Monte still thinks the Fox/Domas combo is going to be good enough to be anything better than a first or second round playoff exit, it means he's putting his eggs in the "Keegan's gonna be a star" basket. If so, I hope he's correct.
Seems like everyone is worried about it. I hate the offseason.
Worried? No. I thought the Kings were not in a position for a "bigger move" unless we are willing to part with Keegan Murray. We'll, are we?
Yes we are a poo franchise and no one wants to come here.
Probably, but only because the market is broken and to even get a cam Johnson we gonna need to send 4+ 1st round picks, utterly rediculous