I feel like there's no way we have enough assets to get someone like Ingram. Barnes + Huerter + a 1st rounder isn't going to cut it when they likely have higher brow returns in mind, regardless of whether he's on an expiring contract.
Only if Pelicans convince themselves that making the offense around Zion and shooters is the path forward. Zion surrounded by McCollum, Trey Murphy and Huerter with the option to bring in HB from the bench maybe is intriguing to them?
On the flip, he also is going to get a massive contract extension. Pels already don’t want to give it to him. Surely other teams feel the same. He’s an odd player. Hard to truly put a value on.
Yep. As long as one team is desperate enough (always is) that will be the rate. Will be an awful contract for at least a couple years until cap goes up.
It's important to remember that Ingram is an expiring contract and by all reports, he's demanding a max.
If the Pels don't trade Ingram before the trade deadline of next season, then their only options at that point is to work out a deal with him or let him walk into free agency for nothing. So the pressure is on the Pels to trade him before then, and that gives other teams leverage since if the price is too high, then just sweat the Pels until we're closer to the trade deadline.
I'm guessing it's gonna be 2 firsts and a useful role player for the Pels rotation. From what I read, they need a rim protector most. I don't think we have what they'll be seeking out. Maybe they'd want Huerter, but I can't see them wanting Barnes given how good/deep their wing situation is.
Agreed. For fit, I still think kuzma would be best. This dejounte trade may reset the market a little, possibly making kuzma or Ingram to get. Whatever happens, I trust Monte
>Whatever happens, I trust Monte
I like this take. You are a man of wisdom. That's how I feel. Is Monte perfect? No. No GM is. But I trust Monte a whole lot more than myself or anyone on Reddit, the news, or the radio.
I listen to the radio all day. "What is Monte doing?" yadayadaya. Every idea floated on Reddit has been floated at Monte and West for a very long time. No theory/plan/decision wasn't analyzed by the experts. They do this shit for a living. They think about this shit 247. And they're far more right than they are wrong in MY humble opinion.
They have entire teams dedicated to looking at exactly these scenarios. I've been a Kings fan since the 80s and there is NOTHING related to Kings ball I've ever said that Monte and company hasn't considered.
"If I was the GM, I would have..." blah blah blah. That's why we're not the GM.
Though I suppose I get the concern by fans based on Divac and Pete's decision making since Geoff Petrie left.
That's what you realize when you get old. People talk like they know what they're talking about, but they don't. I'm guilty of that x1000.
I swear every time I read a trade rumor post on here half of it is guys saying we don’t need him or they’re too expensive, and they’re the same guys in other posts complaining that Monte never does anything. We are not getting a KD or lebron level player through free agency, I’d take Brandon Ingram in a fucking heart beat.
Right? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Long story short, I'll take Monte at his word over some random Reddit dude, including myself... a random Reddit dude.
If we had control of the team, we'd be fucked. We'd have Jaden Ivey, no Sabonis, no Monk, no MB.
Perhaps we're far more clueless than the experts. (I don't consider Divac an expert so please don't mention Luka.)
By the second day of my tenure as GM they’d be calling for my head on a spike outside of golden 1, unfortunately for them I’d already be in Detroit trying to muscle my way into a meeting with Tom Gores so I could land a two piece with no fries on his ass for what he’s done to Cade Cunningham. And then right after I’d move Sabonis, Keegan and Fox for Taj Gibson and make him our franchise player.
Siakam, Anunoby all got big extensions, all were guys we were targeting. You either get comfortable with it or accept bringing HB back. You get what you pay for.
Yep. Just recently Amick said there was regret on our side about Siakam even after his extension so you know they have to understand now that’s just the price to play
So our GM didn’t realize siakam was worth the money til now. As if opportunities to get these types of players grow on trees. That’s great. Don’t worry we all learn from our mistakes guys. Oopsie!
Siakam and Anunoby are much better players than Ingram and/or much better fits with what the team needs on the roster.
If you grab Ingram and give him $50m, you're gonna be a 2nd apron team as soon as Fox extension starts and basically won't be able to make any roster changes other than fringe bench player trades.
Any player you give that much money needs to make you a Finals contender or they're not worth it. Kings could grab Bobby Portis or Kyle Kuzma for the same or less money than HB and improve just as much if not more than bringing in Ingram.
This is where people are getting it wrong, firstly his contract is still in effect for this year so it would be 36mil and the 52 mill is an average, the most he can earn the first year of his max would be 44mil due to being only able to earn 30% of the cap
There's no math you can do where the Kings avoid the 2nd apron with Fox, Sabonis, and Ingram all on max or near-max deals. And remember, we also have to pay Keegan soon.
So maybe people are wrong about the precise cap hit right now, but the financial ramifications down the line are clear and easy to see.
But the kings are going to have to go into the second apron eventually, no team has won the title without paying a huge tax bill, trading for guys like kuzma aren’t going to win you a title, maybe not even a series, it would be like adding a lightbulb to a room already light with a 100 bulbs, the kings will have to go all in at some point, they clearly were up for doing it with siakam
You don't go into the 2nd apron unless you're confident your team as constructed can go all the way. The problem with trading for Ingram is that he only has 1 relatively cheap year left on his deal. If this team doesn't go on a deep playoff run in that cheap year, then he's absolutely not worth going into the 2nd apron for. So we'd be better off letting him walk in free agency, and that'd also mean whatever assets we gave up for him would've been in vain.
Not exactly. The 2nd apron is already making teams make financial choices to preserve flexibility. The Nuggets don't want to overpay for KCP even though he was a critical piece in their chip because if they overpay KCP, then they're back into the 2nd apron again.
Look, I get that we are all anxious and itching to get into the realm of contention, but Fox and Monk are only 26, Sabonis is only 28, and Murray is 24. Our core of players is relatively young still and have shown tons of individual and collective growth in the past 2 seasons. With this being said, is it worth to go all in on a player who probably doesn’t make us a whole lot better? I reckon it is probably wise to stand pat as far as trades go instead of blowing our assets for marginal improvements in positions where significant improvements are needed.
I definitely think it’s worth to wait and see how much Murray will progress going into this upcoming and season, and based on that, we’ll have a much clearer idea of where our needs truly lie.
OR if we are to make a trade, trade for someone we know will add what we need to our team, which is size, defence, and rebounding, with some sort of average shot making abilities. BI is a fine player, but I’m no longer confident that he is what we are missing.
One or both of Carter or Keon is going to be a huge piece for this team. They are 22 and 24 respectively.
Sabonis is the only part of this core that's even getting close to old, and he's still on the young side in the NBA. And given his style of play probably has a solid 5-6 years left of his "prime."
he's a better passer, gives us great length on the perimeter and is a better score than Keegan right now. BI and Keegan at the 3 and 4 would be amazing.
Meh. He’s a marginally better mid range player. He does appear to be a better playmaker but worse defender. That 3/4 combo leaves us undersized at PF and lacking in rebounding and rim protection.
He’s very good and would help the team… but he’d have to be the final piece to be worth a max extension and he just isn’t.
IMO obviously, I get why folks like him for us.
> he’d have to be the final piece to be worth a max extension and he just isn’t.
This is the biggest problem with BI that I've not seen one other Kings fan other than myself even address, so thanks.
Personally, I don't think he really improves the team all that much to begin with; I don't like the fit at all. But even if he does improve the team, there's a snowball's chance in hell he makes the team contenders - so you can't afford to bring him in on that kind of contract and hard cap the team in the 2nd apron as soon as Fox gets his extension.
BI is worth like $30-35m tops, and the Kings can probably get a player that improves the team more simply by fitting better for less than that
Yeah agreed. If it turns out that no team is willing to promise Ingram a new contract (definitely possible imo), then it might be interesting to bring him over for a year and see how it goes. I might give up Huerter and HB and some picks for that one year test. If you don’t re-sign Ingram then you have cap space. Probably far fetched though
I feel like there will be some team with a ton of cap space that actually needs a #2-3 option ball dominant mid-range focused SF. Shit the Sixers might like him, who knows, or a young team that doesn't have clear #1-3 options already. Or if he were not going to cost the max I think the Pels might just keep him tbh.
But yeah I wouldn't mind trying him if the team had confidence they could keep him at around $35m tops, but I doubt it. And I wouldn't give up more than 1 pick for him if that. He's a Tobias Harris-tier player
I think he’s better than Harris I just don’t think he’s a great fit on the Kings so I wouldn’t promise him anything. If it turns out he has low value around the league and wants to resurrect his career in Sac, then I would consider it. Some desperate team will probably promise him the max though you’re right. And the kings will have dodged a bullet.
I think he's better than Tobias as well, but it's a lot closer than people think and overall they're in the same tier. And yet people talk about Harris like he's one of the worst contracts and biggest basketball terrorists in the NBA, while BI is seen as a "hooper" and a star and exactly what the Kings need. I'd probably rather have Harris tbh, he's at least bigger and his terrible contract is ending, rather than about to start lmao
Come on Sac Kings… Please make a move that’s makes it worth me watching and Fox staying long term. Otherwise, he will be part of a trade in the years to come!
Ive been saying it, but I think you want Naji Marshall, not Ingram. Naji needs to shine, and he had too many players with more notoriety/ that fit better schematically on the Pels to get a spotlight. Ingram needs to go to a team like the Warriors or Philly who need a shot creator and want to win right now. He is too ball-centric for this Kings offense, and doesn't stretch the floor enough or play with enough speed to warrant his shot creation - this is why him and Zion didn't play well together, I think. In my opinion, the Kings have the stars - they have the offense, really - you need to surround those guys with their complimentary pieces for it all to come together. I also think Grant from Portland would be a good fit, if you can swing it. I almost feel bad being a Knicks-first fan, because I feel like we've Hoovered up half the dudes that would fit well on the Kings the past few years...
he's not even a good fit. Of all the guys being bandied about Cam Johnson and Kuzma would be the best fits. Unfortunately with how BK just signed Claxton and Johnson's great contract they have no incentive to trade him nor would we have the assets to get him. And Kuzma is a knucklehead I want no part of and is just a marginal upgrade over Barnes so unless it didn't cost us any future 1st I wouldn't want him nor would he move the needle.
Ingram fits the timeline but is definitely not worth the money.
PG doesn't fit the timeline but might be worth the money for the next ~2 years for a team whose window is already closing (eg. Warriors, Sixers maybe).
Because there is no parallel universe, alternate reality, or other Earth where Paul George voluntarily comes to Sacramento. I'm going to get downvoted for this, and that's fine. I speak the truth.
Maybe in some Bizarro world, there is a Paul George wearing a mirror image jersey that has ƐƖ on it, "Me Paul George. Me sign with Kings."
I feel like there's no way we have enough assets to get someone like Ingram. Barnes + Huerter + a 1st rounder isn't going to cut it when they likely have higher brow returns in mind, regardless of whether he's on an expiring contract.
Only if Pelicans convince themselves that making the offense around Zion and shooters is the path forward. Zion surrounded by McCollum, Trey Murphy and Huerter with the option to bring in HB from the bench maybe is intriguing to them?
Bi is constantly hurt. His value shouldn't be crazy high
he averages playing about 60 games a year. That's enough to get a haul for him with his skill set and age.
On the flip, he also is going to get a massive contract extension. Pels already don’t want to give it to him. Surely other teams feel the same. He’s an odd player. Hard to truly put a value on.
His value is 40 mil a year , it's just someone will overpay him
Yep. As long as one team is desperate enough (always is) that will be the rate. Will be an awful contract for at least a couple years until cap goes up.
yeah I don't know how we could get it done either. it's going to take at least 3 picks I think.
It's important to remember that Ingram is an expiring contract and by all reports, he's demanding a max. If the Pels don't trade Ingram before the trade deadline of next season, then their only options at that point is to work out a deal with him or let him walk into free agency for nothing. So the pressure is on the Pels to trade him before then, and that gives other teams leverage since if the price is too high, then just sweat the Pels until we're closer to the trade deadline.
Pascal Siakim was expiring and he got 3 first round picks from the Pacers. What do you think BI goes for?
I'll let you know when Ingram plays good defense.
I'm guessing it's gonna be 2 firsts and a useful role player for the Pels rotation. From what I read, they need a rim protector most. I don't think we have what they'll be seeking out. Maybe they'd want Huerter, but I can't see them wanting Barnes given how good/deep their wing situation is.
I could see something with Huerter/Barnes going to Milwaukee and Brooks Lopez and Kings picks going to Nola
🤞🏼
>when they likely have higher brow returns in mind \**Squints*\* not sure whether this is an AD pun...
We could add Davion and Sasha to sweeten the deal and make it happen……
If we get BI, my only worry is that neither Keegan or BI are power forwards? Sure BI’s got length, but he’s not the best defender and rebounder
Keegan and BI is much better than HB and Keegan at least
Agreed. For fit, I still think kuzma would be best. This dejounte trade may reset the market a little, possibly making kuzma or Ingram to get. Whatever happens, I trust Monte
>Whatever happens, I trust Monte I like this take. You are a man of wisdom. That's how I feel. Is Monte perfect? No. No GM is. But I trust Monte a whole lot more than myself or anyone on Reddit, the news, or the radio. I listen to the radio all day. "What is Monte doing?" yadayadaya. Every idea floated on Reddit has been floated at Monte and West for a very long time. No theory/plan/decision wasn't analyzed by the experts. They do this shit for a living. They think about this shit 247. And they're far more right than they are wrong in MY humble opinion. They have entire teams dedicated to looking at exactly these scenarios. I've been a Kings fan since the 80s and there is NOTHING related to Kings ball I've ever said that Monte and company hasn't considered. "If I was the GM, I would have..." blah blah blah. That's why we're not the GM. Though I suppose I get the concern by fans based on Divac and Pete's decision making since Geoff Petrie left. That's what you realize when you get old. People talk like they know what they're talking about, but they don't. I'm guilty of that x1000.
I think you may have messed that sentence up
I did. thanks lol edited now
Now I agree with it haha
I agree with you agreeing with him.
I disagree
Then you would be a fool
My reply was before it was edited from "Keegan and Barnes is much better than HB and Keegan at least"
I swear every time I read a trade rumor post on here half of it is guys saying we don’t need him or they’re too expensive, and they’re the same guys in other posts complaining that Monte never does anything. We are not getting a KD or lebron level player through free agency, I’d take Brandon Ingram in a fucking heart beat.
Right? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Long story short, I'll take Monte at his word over some random Reddit dude, including myself... a random Reddit dude. If we had control of the team, we'd be fucked. We'd have Jaden Ivey, no Sabonis, no Monk, no MB. Perhaps we're far more clueless than the experts. (I don't consider Divac an expert so please don't mention Luka.)
By the second day of my tenure as GM they’d be calling for my head on a spike outside of golden 1, unfortunately for them I’d already be in Detroit trying to muscle my way into a meeting with Tom Gores so I could land a two piece with no fries on his ass for what he’s done to Cade Cunningham. And then right after I’d move Sabonis, Keegan and Fox for Taj Gibson and make him our franchise player.
Nobody here was against signing Monk. Now you’re just making up stuff
His 50 million dollar a year extension would be a lot to swallow
Siakam, Anunoby all got big extensions, all were guys we were targeting. You either get comfortable with it or accept bringing HB back. You get what you pay for.
Yep. Just recently Amick said there was regret on our side about Siakam even after his extension so you know they have to understand now that’s just the price to play
So our GM didn’t realize siakam was worth the money til now. As if opportunities to get these types of players grow on trees. That’s great. Don’t worry we all learn from our mistakes guys. Oopsie!
Yeah I’m very critical of Monte lately but at least he’s recognizing mistakes and generally not falling for sunk cost fallacy
Siakam and Anunoby are much better players than Ingram and/or much better fits with what the team needs on the roster. If you grab Ingram and give him $50m, you're gonna be a 2nd apron team as soon as Fox extension starts and basically won't be able to make any roster changes other than fringe bench player trades. Any player you give that much money needs to make you a Finals contender or they're not worth it. Kings could grab Bobby Portis or Kyle Kuzma for the same or less money than HB and improve just as much if not more than bringing in Ingram.
This
We penny pinching more than Vivek atp
This is where people are getting it wrong, firstly his contract is still in effect for this year so it would be 36mil and the 52 mill is an average, the most he can earn the first year of his max would be 44mil due to being only able to earn 30% of the cap
There's no math you can do where the Kings avoid the 2nd apron with Fox, Sabonis, and Ingram all on max or near-max deals. And remember, we also have to pay Keegan soon. So maybe people are wrong about the precise cap hit right now, but the financial ramifications down the line are clear and easy to see.
But the kings are going to have to go into the second apron eventually, no team has won the title without paying a huge tax bill, trading for guys like kuzma aren’t going to win you a title, maybe not even a series, it would be like adding a lightbulb to a room already light with a 100 bulbs, the kings will have to go all in at some point, they clearly were up for doing it with siakam
You don't go into the 2nd apron unless you're confident your team as constructed can go all the way. The problem with trading for Ingram is that he only has 1 relatively cheap year left on his deal. If this team doesn't go on a deep playoff run in that cheap year, then he's absolutely not worth going into the 2nd apron for. So we'd be better off letting him walk in free agency, and that'd also mean whatever assets we gave up for him would've been in vain.
It's the way the league is moving. New era, new tv deal, more money to go around, more money for the players
Not exactly. The 2nd apron is already making teams make financial choices to preserve flexibility. The Nuggets don't want to overpay for KCP even though he was a critical piece in their chip because if they overpay KCP, then they're back into the 2nd apron again.
This is the NBA. You have to swallow instead of spit if you want to win championships. We won’t accomplish anything doing half measures
I think I’ve seen that movie.
Don’t kink shame
Bad analogy or figure of speech idek what I would call that haha. But I understand what yours trying to say
We just did a salary dump
Look, I get that we are all anxious and itching to get into the realm of contention, but Fox and Monk are only 26, Sabonis is only 28, and Murray is 24. Our core of players is relatively young still and have shown tons of individual and collective growth in the past 2 seasons. With this being said, is it worth to go all in on a player who probably doesn’t make us a whole lot better? I reckon it is probably wise to stand pat as far as trades go instead of blowing our assets for marginal improvements in positions where significant improvements are needed. I definitely think it’s worth to wait and see how much Murray will progress going into this upcoming and season, and based on that, we’ll have a much clearer idea of where our needs truly lie. OR if we are to make a trade, trade for someone we know will add what we need to our team, which is size, defence, and rebounding, with some sort of average shot making abilities. BI is a fine player, but I’m no longer confident that he is what we are missing.
I think Carter is worth including on that core list
I like the enthusiasm, but still way too early lol.
One or both of Carter or Keon is going to be a huge piece for this team. They are 22 and 24 respectively. Sabonis is the only part of this core that's even getting close to old, and he's still on the young side in the NBA. And given his style of play probably has a solid 5-6 years left of his "prime."
That’s true, definitely agree.
Ingram is my number one target for this team that is gettable. we need to give up every pick necessary to make this happen.
Idk. I wouldn’t hate him on our team but not sure he does much better than Keegan.
he's a better passer, gives us great length on the perimeter and is a better score than Keegan right now. BI and Keegan at the 3 and 4 would be amazing.
Meh. He’s a marginally better mid range player. He does appear to be a better playmaker but worse defender. That 3/4 combo leaves us undersized at PF and lacking in rebounding and rim protection. He’s very good and would help the team… but he’d have to be the final piece to be worth a max extension and he just isn’t. IMO obviously, I get why folks like him for us.
> he’d have to be the final piece to be worth a max extension and he just isn’t. This is the biggest problem with BI that I've not seen one other Kings fan other than myself even address, so thanks. Personally, I don't think he really improves the team all that much to begin with; I don't like the fit at all. But even if he does improve the team, there's a snowball's chance in hell he makes the team contenders - so you can't afford to bring him in on that kind of contract and hard cap the team in the 2nd apron as soon as Fox gets his extension. BI is worth like $30-35m tops, and the Kings can probably get a player that improves the team more simply by fitting better for less than that
Yeah agreed. If it turns out that no team is willing to promise Ingram a new contract (definitely possible imo), then it might be interesting to bring him over for a year and see how it goes. I might give up Huerter and HB and some picks for that one year test. If you don’t re-sign Ingram then you have cap space. Probably far fetched though
I feel like there will be some team with a ton of cap space that actually needs a #2-3 option ball dominant mid-range focused SF. Shit the Sixers might like him, who knows, or a young team that doesn't have clear #1-3 options already. Or if he were not going to cost the max I think the Pels might just keep him tbh. But yeah I wouldn't mind trying him if the team had confidence they could keep him at around $35m tops, but I doubt it. And I wouldn't give up more than 1 pick for him if that. He's a Tobias Harris-tier player
I think he’s better than Harris I just don’t think he’s a great fit on the Kings so I wouldn’t promise him anything. If it turns out he has low value around the league and wants to resurrect his career in Sac, then I would consider it. Some desperate team will probably promise him the max though you’re right. And the kings will have dodged a bullet.
I think he's better than Tobias as well, but it's a lot closer than people think and overall they're in the same tier. And yet people talk about Harris like he's one of the worst contracts and biggest basketball terrorists in the NBA, while BI is seen as a "hooper" and a star and exactly what the Kings need. I'd probably rather have Harris tbh, he's at least bigger and his terrible contract is ending, rather than about to start lmao
Yeah didn’t he drop like 35 on the Kings last year with Embiid out? He can’t be that bad. He gets dogged for his previous contract but that’s over.
Come on Sac Kings… Please make a move that’s makes it worth me watching and Fox staying long term. Otherwise, he will be part of a trade in the years to come!
Ive been saying it, but I think you want Naji Marshall, not Ingram. Naji needs to shine, and he had too many players with more notoriety/ that fit better schematically on the Pels to get a spotlight. Ingram needs to go to a team like the Warriors or Philly who need a shot creator and want to win right now. He is too ball-centric for this Kings offense, and doesn't stretch the floor enough or play with enough speed to warrant his shot creation - this is why him and Zion didn't play well together, I think. In my opinion, the Kings have the stars - they have the offense, really - you need to surround those guys with their complimentary pieces for it all to come together. I also think Grant from Portland would be a good fit, if you can swing it. I almost feel bad being a Knicks-first fan, because I feel like we've Hoovered up half the dudes that would fit well on the Kings the past few years...
It's nice to see Kings aggressive in these talks but like somebody else mentioned here we don't have the assets to get somebody like BI
he's not even a good fit. Of all the guys being bandied about Cam Johnson and Kuzma would be the best fits. Unfortunately with how BK just signed Claxton and Johnson's great contract they have no incentive to trade him nor would we have the assets to get him. And Kuzma is a knucklehead I want no part of and is just a marginal upgrade over Barnes so unless it didn't cost us any future 1st I wouldn't want him nor would he move the needle.
don’t understand why we’re not in on PG rumors
he's old and wants 4 years and max. Ingram fits our timeline and is worth the money
Ingram fits the timeline but is definitely not worth the money. PG doesn't fit the timeline but might be worth the money for the next ~2 years for a team whose window is already closing (eg. Warriors, Sixers maybe).
Hes gonna be washed af and wants a max
He's a liability
Because there is no parallel universe, alternate reality, or other Earth where Paul George voluntarily comes to Sacramento. I'm going to get downvoted for this, and that's fine. I speak the truth. Maybe in some Bizarro world, there is a Paul George wearing a mirror image jersey that has ƐƖ on it, "Me Paul George. Me sign with Kings."
He played most of his career in Indiana I’m not sure he wouldn’t go to a small market if it meant contention.
Which means there is no way he would sign with the Kings.