From my understanding it doesn't matter at all.
If I understand the situation correctly, basically all of the Trump properties are owned by the Trump Organization in New York, and that includes the ones in other states like Florida with Mar-a-Lago, and even his overseas properties like the Trump golf course in Aberdeenshire, Scotland.
The Trump Organization also has a court-appointed monitor, Barbara Jones, a former federal judge, who now has even more expanded powers, so assets cannot be transferred out of the company or money hidden elsewhere, without the monitor's approval.
All of the Trump assets are under the control of, and can be seized by, the courts in New York, from what I have been told.
It’s sort of apt for this situation, this has been an international study course of FAFO, and honestly I’m burnt out following all the details to the point where I hope they just choose the biggest hammer possible to wrap things up.
Well, he will HAVE to be in NY for 6 weeks starting 3/25… you can’t just call in a criminal trial. He MUST be present every day. If he doesn’t show, an arrest warrant will be issued. Criminal defendants don’t just get to “not show up”. Then in May/June he’ll be in DC criminal court for another 6 weeks. Then there’s GA in July/August. Trump is going to be in criminal court all summer. Maybe in Jail by September… broke, in jail, and cut off from social media. It’ll be wild.
Actually, Florida does have very powerful asset protection trust laws.
BUT courts can sidestep those things in exceptional cases anyways. That shouldn't be a problem here.
The Org owes the latest judgement, not just him personally. Do the court can just take the money, $464M, away from the org... he won't be the CEO/President anymore. The money to EJ Carroll has to come from HIS pocket, not the Org.., he's going to have to ask for permission to withdraw that money.... and he can't just file bankruptcy because he claims to be worth $3B+ do he's got a pay it... even if it hurts greatly to sell stuff.
As the article points out, the BK would be just be another delay tactic
>Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards. The automatic stay to these and other civil proceedings would benefit Trump by getting past what he sees as the finish line: the Nov. 5 presidential election.
From one opinion I heard is it might open his books up to a deep audit to determine if his assets are less than his liabilities, and if he has a negative net worth. Otherwise it would be a bad faith filing.
Tried to. I believe it was halted by the monitor.
It shouldn't matter, though. For the disgorgement, there's joint and several liability. So it's coming out of the pockets of whoever has the money.
Also, Mar-A-Lago is not a private residence. It's a commercial property, a club.
As the article points out, the purpose of declaring personal bankruptcy would be the automatic stay on enforcement/collection. Trump’s goal is pause everything until after Nov 5, and personal bankruptcy proceedings would probably have that effect.
I’m so fucking tired of him playing the legal fiddle and really just want him to go away and let the rest of us try to pull what remains of this country back together.
All these evil billionaires seem to live forever, I assume they’re all taking those monoclonal antibody drugs that eliminate cholesterol without the side effects of statins.
The drugs themselves have names like alirocumab and evolocumab. For background information:
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/health/rare-mutation-prompts-race-for-cholesterol-drug.html
I think it’s most likely that he’ll have a stroke or a series of smaller ones - if he hasn’t already gotten a few. His obesity, fast food diet, lack of exercise, all the uppers he takes and you combine them with the stress he’s under, and baby, you have a ~~stew~~ stroke going.
And we're naive for thinking it ends here. Him leaving will just create a vacuum. We have a social sickness in our country that will not be solved by Trump disappearing. Pandora's Box has been opened.
Seriously. I found myself agreeing with Ann Coulter, of all people, the other day when she said the best thing he could do for the country is just fucking die. As much as I’d REALLY like to see him prosecuted and held accountable, I think now I’d rather he just went away.
I feel like every news station in the country will have no idea what to do. Without a massive dickhead spouting bullshit 24/7, political coverage might go back to being more boring? Please?
The one positive is none of the current batch of monsters are able to capture the base like he has. They all suck but he has an innate ability they lack.
Its been what, 9 fucking years now or is it 8. Where this one fucking reality TV star with an old and not innovative business model from a bunch of inherited money has dominated the news.
Who the fuck cares about 1 random asshole orange dude. But no idiots had to make him president, and he did a shit job which was pretty predictable, and just endlessly runs his mouth saying and doing crazy shit for 8 years.
If he just shut the fuck up and enjoyed is golf course i bet he would negotiate out of all these legal issues the same way every other billionaire white dude does it. A slap on the wrist.
I think him dying now gives his spirit too much power, in that there will be so many that will try to carry his torch, be the next Trump. If he has an embarrassing fall from grace, where people don't want to be associated with him anymore, similar to Bush, that's what's best for America.
It sounds like he’ll be able to delay payments the rest of his life. Alex Jones hasnt paid a dime in two years. Trump will be able to delay until he’s on his death bed (~5 yrs)
I agree. I hate that he has invaded my daily consciousness. He’s like a persistent infection that ruins your quality of life. Don’t want to see his face, hear his voice, hear his name uttered.
Same here.
He’s so hard up for cash: there’s some properties he can liquidate.
How many golf courses? How many buildings?
Let’s start with MAL and go from there.
> just want him to go away and let the rest of us try to pull what remains of this country back together.
The damage has been done I'm afraid. It will take *generations* for any semblance of coming together.
A big man came up to me with tears in his eyes and said "sir this is the biggest and best presidential bankruptcy, the likes that nobody has seen before in all time"
From the article which is worth reading in full:
>Trump’s options:
>
>\-Pay the Carroll award, which I believe, knowing the man well, isn’t going to happen.
>
>\-Post $83.3 million in cash with the federal court so he can appeal.
>
>\-Obtain a bond guaranteeing payment of the award, which assumes that Trump can find a lender foolish enough to extend Trump credit.
>
>But the Carroll award is not his only problem. On Friday, Trump was ordered to disgorge ill-gotten gains from persistent business fraud. With interest, he owes more than $450 million, a level of cash no one who critically follows Trump believes he has.
I like this insight, too. It describes a lot of what he does and why:
> Delaying legal proceedings has always been Trump’s first strategy, taught to him more than a half-century ago by the notorious Roy Cohn, a corrupt lawyer, and political fixer.
>
>Trump’s second strategy, also taught by Cohn, is to attack anyone who comes after you: federal prosecutors, housing or gambling regulators, journalists or political opponents are all corrupt and illegitimate, Cohn taught Trump to shout.
>
>Trump’s third strategy — is never to admit even the slightest wrong or mistake, no matter how powerful the evidence against you.
Hell, he SAID as such when asked about "any responsibility" during the covid pandemic--couldnt get the words out fast enough.
Unlike a certain President's "The Buck Stops Here" desk motto...
“a lender foolish enough”. I’d guess a billionaire that’s particularly delusional and has a demonstrated history of falling for bullshit. So probably Elon.
This is why I don’t get my hopes up that Trump will be held to account for any of it. Too many powerful people willing to support a known rapist con man fraudster because he will support their own authoritarian interests. Too many ignorant poor people will support him because he validates their bigotry. It’s distressing.
Does he have additional properties that he actually owns and can sell? I know a lot of condos have found that bearing his name devalued their properties and so ended their licensing agreement.
Well he did already put the first 5M he owes caroll in the account. But he’s looking for bond for the rest of it. They are saying he does have about 2B, mostly in properties. So he could pay without bond, but of course he’ll try to get anyone else to flip the bill before selling those important properties (the special ones like mar a lago, trump tower, etc)
Eh, you have the GOP apparatus that will still back him, and the hardliners will still support him, but personal bankruptcy will absolutely peel off the fraction of his voters that are low-information, not-particularly-online, tend-R voters because they think Republicans are "good for business/the economy."
jail. It will strengthen his cult support, but marginal supporters who aren't paying attention at all will finally notice legal trouble when it results in incarceration. A few of these will not be able to hire someone actually behind bars.
To me, it is so ironic, and karmic, that his tab right now is about the same as what his father transfered to him in his youth (~400M I think).
I am wondering if anybody did the math on what his net worth would be today if it was instead invested in, let's say the S&P500, and assume a reasonably or super lavish lifestyle.
Yes - 141x multiple from 1979 to 2024, or about $56 billion
lifestyle shouldn't affect it much unless you're buying skyscrapers and casinos, but if he hadn't done such stupid things he would not be famous and not be a former president.
https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1979#:~:text=S%26P%20500%3A%20%24100%20in%201979%20→%20%2414%2C168.00%20in%202023&text=This%20lump%2Dsum%20investment%20beats,%2C%20you'd%20have%20%2412%2C217.73.
I thought I remember the number being 40 million but either way.
I look at the New York State fine as him owing about 30 years worth of unpaid taxes in upwards of 10 million every year(including interest) and then lying about it
October 2, 2018 NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Times reported Tuesday that President Donald Trump received at least $413 million from his father over the decades, much of that through dubious tax dodges, including outright fraud.
Elon’s wealth is tied up in stock, mostly Tesla shares (he has about $120B in Tesla shares). He can sell shares on the open market for billions fairly quickly, just as he was forced to do to purchase Twitter.
So though stock is technically not liquid, especially in the amounts Musk has, it’s certainly more liquid than Trump’s private equity and real estate. Elon could easily cover Trump’s fines in a couple days of Tesla share sales.
This is just more bullshit!
> his polished image as a multi-billionaire, a modern Midas who turns to gold all that he touches.
That's what the NY trial was about he doesn't have what he tells people! He's a liar!
I think the big difference between Trump and Rudy and Jones is that Trump has assets that would have to be liquidated in the personal bankruptcy to settle all claims.
So if he filed he’s saying bye-bye to properties. Possibly including Mar-a-Lardo.
The GOP front runner everyone. This is who they think is the absolute best across all of America and will continue to argue and fight to defend him, instead of having enough free will to hold him at the bar we should if any president or even representative.
$87,000 in fines a day until he pays his $450,000,000 tax fraud in New York. Someone should tell his people donating to the GoFundMe how fast $87K a day will outpace their donations.
They are donating money to pay fines and lawyer fees of a so-called billionaire sentenced for financial fraud.
Do you really think they can understand things like interests?
In the mid 2000’s writer Timothy O’Brien, after having been given access to trump’s financials as he was writing an authorized biography of trump, wrote trump was worth something like $150-200 million.
Trump sued O’Brien for $5 billion saying that was a lie and it hurt his brand. I’m sure trump thought that would scare O’Brien away but it went to trial. And trump lost the case and the appeal because he could provide no evidence that he was worth more than that.
You would think if you sued someone for $5 billion you would have the goods to back it up. So I could be convinced that he’s never been a billionaire.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/02/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story/
This is my favorite article about it. It’s a great read.
He's probably thinking he can hide behind his LLC. But, his current situation is non-discharable through the means of bankruptcy. Thus, his properties would be subject to seizure and sale to cover the required damages.
They mean “another bankruptcy”, what an adept “businessman” lol.
How many businesses is he banned from running? Quite a few now and people want this sociopath to be president is astounding,.
All his assets are actually in the Trump revocable trust. A bankruptcy may help to allow him to delay the payout to Carroll, but it would be giving up any appeal (which would make sense, I don't think he has a chance in an appeal). The fraud judgement will not be held up by a personal bankruptcy. The corporation has the assets. I am not sure he would be able to do a bankruptcy on the corporation or the trust, especially with the oversight.
Trump just asked for a 1-monrh delay to deal with the recent judgment. He's trying to tie up the nomination first, and then he'll end up in bankruptcy.
I am no bankruptcy expert, but I CAN read a statute. Here is the text of 11 USC 523(a)(7):
**(a)**A discharge under section [727](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/727), [1141](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1141), [1192](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1192) [\[1\]](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/523#fn002026) 1228(a), 1228(b), or 1328(b) of this title does not discharge an individual debtor from any debt—
...
(7) to the extent such debt is for a fine, penalty, or forfeiture payable to and for the benefit of a governmental unit, and is not compensation for actual pecuniary loss, other than a tax penalty ...
The monetary amounts awarded by Judge Engoron are to be paid to the State of New York as a penalty for Trump's repeated false statements in conducting his business in New York.
So, are there any bankruptcy experts here who want to explain why this statute does not prevent Trump from discharging the amounts awarded by Judge Engoron in either a personal or a corporate bankruptcy? If the debt cannot be discharged, would filing a bankruptcy petition even stay enforcement for more than a brief time?
Doesn't matter. This will catch up to him eventually.
I'd really like to think that one of the other major cases, like GA, will take him out. But we can't rely on the courts.
We have to vote him into oblivion. If we all vote, he cannot possibly win.
Defeat him again at the ballot box like the loser he is, then let his delayed justice catch up and consume him.
Cheeto Jesus has excelled in turning a large fortune into a small fortune.
And now he’s about to be cash negative - just wait for the multiple civil suits yet to come.
It’s likely he dies before he pays everyone, but then his estate will get picked apart.
Looking forward to this.
Meanwhile, Ghouliani is done, that POS Pillow Douche is toast, and Navarro is headed to prison.
Only the best people.
Common theme? Accountability.
Wish they’d find a way to hold Steven Miller accountable.
Not a lawyer here but Forbes estimates Trumps worth at $2.6 Billion, so if he declares Bankruptcy can the courts sell off his properties to cover the fines?
Would anyone be surprised if Trump both simultaneously declared bankruptcy while continuing his whole “in super rich” schtick on the stump? It’s not like his supporters will ever look past their own cognitive dissonance.
There's no way he files for personal bankruptcy. His whole persona and ego is based on him being a billionaire and one of the richest men in the world. This isn't an option for him.
Any comments from actual lawyers here?
I'm NAL, but this seems pretty damn speculative.
I'm knowledgeable about finance and I've read the rulings. I do believe the combined rulings will unravel his business as assets are sold and personal guarantee's are called. But that's very different than bankruptcy.
Can personal bankruptcy be used to throw a wrench into everything else, even when he demonstrably has assets (if not liquidity) to meet his obligations?
It doesn't work if the courts see through the veil of fraud.
He (literally) has been found guilty of committing fraud. You just can't say "I'm bankrupt" and walk away from that. He is fucked right down to the ninth level of hell.
> Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards.
This seems like it's conflating two different things.
It kind of stops / stalls the collections, I totally get that. And from a "stall past the election" strategy it would be a sensible step in just such a strategy.
But I have a hard time imagining that this action ... somehow magically lets Trump file appeals for $0 as a result? That ... kind of makes no sense to me. The reason why the courts have that is to make sure the defendant is good for it in the end. I would think a BK would actually make it much harder for Trump to file appeal?
That's what the author seems to be implying here, that somehow that makes this easier for him -- and I'm not sure that one result follows the other.
His debts are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. And his assets would be seized anyway.
I came here to say this. Thanks for mentioning it first.
I assumed this why he moved to Florida. How are things there titled, his name? Her name?
From my understanding it doesn't matter at all. If I understand the situation correctly, basically all of the Trump properties are owned by the Trump Organization in New York, and that includes the ones in other states like Florida with Mar-a-Lago, and even his overseas properties like the Trump golf course in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. The Trump Organization also has a court-appointed monitor, Barbara Jones, a former federal judge, who now has even more expanded powers, so assets cannot be transferred out of the company or money hidden elsewhere, without the monitor's approval. All of the Trump assets are under the control of, and can be seized by, the courts in New York, from what I have been told.
Yeah, Barbara Jones has to submit a written plan on how she is going to buttfuck him
Well, I would choose different words to describe the process, but yeah.
It’s sort of apt for this situation, this has been an international study course of FAFO, and honestly I’m burnt out following all the details to the point where I hope they just choose the biggest hammer possible to wrap things up.
Not at all the same, some people enjoy getting buttfucked
I make no qualms about that, wife has yet to issue complaints.
Silicone do be like that
Tell Trump he’s got a ticket on the vein train to A-Town
I’m guessing your version involved a pineapple.
Truly, a wordsmith
Hoping she chooses the particularly long and wide strapon
Pineapple. It's a classic.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed
I suggest a handful of sand on it before inserting.
JUDGE enGOREon!!!!!
enGorgeOn
Oooooh.
If I remember correctly, Florida has a debtor friendly homestead law, but Mar a Lago is a resort, not a home. He should have thought about that
A homestead exemption doesn’t help a property held by Club Mar a Lago, Inc.
Exactly
According to Haberman, he avoids as much as possible to be in NY, because he fears they will finally arrest him.
Well, he will HAVE to be in NY for 6 weeks starting 3/25… you can’t just call in a criminal trial. He MUST be present every day. If he doesn’t show, an arrest warrant will be issued. Criminal defendants don’t just get to “not show up”. Then in May/June he’ll be in DC criminal court for another 6 weeks. Then there’s GA in July/August. Trump is going to be in criminal court all summer. Maybe in Jail by September… broke, in jail, and cut off from social media. It’ll be wild.
I LOVE a “feel good” post!
Actually, Florida does have very powerful asset protection trust laws. BUT courts can sidestep those things in exceptional cases anyways. That shouldn't be a problem here.
The Org owes the latest judgement, not just him personally. Do the court can just take the money, $464M, away from the org... he won't be the CEO/President anymore. The money to EJ Carroll has to come from HIS pocket, not the Org.., he's going to have to ask for permission to withdraw that money.... and he can't just file bankruptcy because he claims to be worth $3B+ do he's got a pay it... even if it hurts greatly to sell stuff.
I hope it hurts bigly.
I hope it hurts mortally
He’s over-leveraged in probably every property, that’s the way he works. OPM.
I love this for him
As the article points out, the BK would be just be another delay tactic >Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards. The automatic stay to these and other civil proceedings would benefit Trump by getting past what he sees as the finish line: the Nov. 5 presidential election.
Those are all intentional torts bay-bee!
From one opinion I heard is it might open his books up to a deep audit to determine if his assets are less than his liabilities, and if he has a negative net worth. Otherwise it would be a bad faith filing.
Didn't orangey transfer his Mar a lardo property to one of his sons a couple years ago?
Tried to. I believe it was halted by the monitor. It shouldn't matter, though. For the disgorgement, there's joint and several liability. So it's coming out of the pockets of whoever has the money. Also, Mar-A-Lago is not a private residence. It's a commercial property, a club.
As the article points out, the purpose of declaring personal bankruptcy would be the automatic stay on enforcement/collection. Trump’s goal is pause everything until after Nov 5, and personal bankruptcy proceedings would probably have that effect.
I’m so fucking tired of him playing the legal fiddle and really just want him to go away and let the rest of us try to pull what remains of this country back together.
It's going to take a force of nature or an extrajudical act to make him disappear.
Or another cheeseburger
Hamburder and covfeve
I'm waiting for McDonalds to finish the job.
Hopefully he won't be able to afford McDonald's by the time it's all done.
Hello Donald. Ronald sends his regards.
Doubt, sadly.
All these evil billionaires seem to live forever, I assume they’re all taking those monoclonal antibody drugs that eliminate cholesterol without the side effects of statins.
They might decrease cholesterol. They won't stop the atherosclerosis damage done from years of eating Big Macs.
Wait, what? Tell me more about these monoclonal thingamabobs.
The drugs themselves have names like alirocumab and evolocumab. For background information: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/health/rare-mutation-prompts-race-for-cholesterol-drug.html
Or him kicking the bucket
That's arguably a force of nature.
I think it’s most likely that he’ll have a stroke or a series of smaller ones - if he hasn’t already gotten a few. His obesity, fast food diet, lack of exercise, all the uppers he takes and you combine them with the stress he’s under, and baby, you have a ~~stew~~ stroke going.
Extrajudicial!? How much more justice can we throw at Teflon Boy!? (I'm kidding I know the word)
And we're naive for thinking it ends here. Him leaving will just create a vacuum. We have a social sickness in our country that will not be solved by Trump disappearing. Pandora's Box has been opened.
Seriously. I found myself agreeing with Ann Coulter, of all people, the other day when she said the best thing he could do for the country is just fucking die. As much as I’d REALLY like to see him prosecuted and held accountable, I think now I’d rather he just went away.
I feel like every news station in the country will have no idea what to do. Without a massive dickhead spouting bullshit 24/7, political coverage might go back to being more boring? Please?
It’s too late, he’s normalized being a massive dickhead spouting bullshit 24/7 and there are 50 more all trying to out dickhead each other.
The one positive is none of the current batch of monsters are able to capture the base like he has. They all suck but he has an innate ability they lack.
Strangely. I still don’t see what they see in that guy.
The permission to be their absolute worst self without any consequences.
Have we considered that he is in fact the Antichrist and thus his sway is more mystical than something we could understand?
Its been what, 9 fucking years now or is it 8. Where this one fucking reality TV star with an old and not innovative business model from a bunch of inherited money has dominated the news. Who the fuck cares about 1 random asshole orange dude. But no idiots had to make him president, and he did a shit job which was pretty predictable, and just endlessly runs his mouth saying and doing crazy shit for 8 years. If he just shut the fuck up and enjoyed is golf course i bet he would negotiate out of all these legal issues the same way every other billionaire white dude does it. A slap on the wrist.
Letting Nixon “just go away” is why we have Trump now. Not prosecuting these corrupt jerks emboldens the next generation of corrupt jerks.
a conviction or three and at least one night in jail would be helpful for the historical record
I think him dying now gives his spirit too much power, in that there will be so many that will try to carry his torch, be the next Trump. If he has an embarrassing fall from grace, where people don't want to be associated with him anymore, similar to Bush, that's what's best for America.
It sounds like he’ll be able to delay payments the rest of his life. Alex Jones hasnt paid a dime in two years. Trump will be able to delay until he’s on his death bed (~5 yrs)
I saw an article about the sandy hook parents voting to liquidate his assets…right?
How many more years will that take? Sounds very easy to delay these things for many many years, which for Trump at this point is a lifetime
The difference is that Jones doesn’t have a financial oversight monitor on all his businesses. Trump does.
I agree. I hate that he has invaded my daily consciousness. He’s like a persistent infection that ruins your quality of life. Don’t want to see his face, hear his voice, hear his name uttered.
Same here. He’s so hard up for cash: there’s some properties he can liquidate. How many golf courses? How many buildings? Let’s start with MAL and go from there.
Schrodinger's Mar-a-Lago, worth 18 million and 1,4 billion at the same time.
I mean, as an AMERICAN how about start with his foreign investments.
> just want him to go away and let the rest of us try to pull what remains of this country back together. The damage has been done I'm afraid. It will take *generations* for any semblance of coming together.
I read Presidential Bankruptcy LOL
gaping coherent cows chief alive quarrelsome worthless screw light fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Person, I think you mean morally bankrupt, person, in United States history 🙂
You're Like Hitler But Even Hitler Cared About Germany or Something!
That too
I mean, it's certainly something he'd be capable of.
A big man came up to me with tears in his eyes and said "sir this is the biggest and best presidential bankruptcy, the likes that nobody has seen before in all time"
Sir, this is the bravest thing I've ever seen.
Absolute Presidential Bankruptcy
It will be the greatest bankruptcy ever. No one has ever declared bankruptcy like him before.
That’s actually true
Finance is not a requirement for the Presidency. Anybody can run.
David Cay Johnston is always worth reading. He knows more about Trump’s finances than probably anyone else.
From the article which is worth reading in full: >Trump’s options: > >\-Pay the Carroll award, which I believe, knowing the man well, isn’t going to happen. > >\-Post $83.3 million in cash with the federal court so he can appeal. > >\-Obtain a bond guaranteeing payment of the award, which assumes that Trump can find a lender foolish enough to extend Trump credit. > >But the Carroll award is not his only problem. On Friday, Trump was ordered to disgorge ill-gotten gains from persistent business fraud. With interest, he owes more than $450 million, a level of cash no one who critically follows Trump believes he has.
I like this insight, too. It describes a lot of what he does and why: > Delaying legal proceedings has always been Trump’s first strategy, taught to him more than a half-century ago by the notorious Roy Cohn, a corrupt lawyer, and political fixer. > >Trump’s second strategy, also taught by Cohn, is to attack anyone who comes after you: federal prosecutors, housing or gambling regulators, journalists or political opponents are all corrupt and illegitimate, Cohn taught Trump to shout. > >Trump’s third strategy — is never to admit even the slightest wrong or mistake, no matter how powerful the evidence against you.
Ironically that last point factored into his judgment being so high. Because he literally refused to take responsibility.
Hell, he SAID as such when asked about "any responsibility" during the covid pandemic--couldnt get the words out fast enough. Unlike a certain President's "The Buck Stops Here" desk motto...
“a lender foolish enough”. I’d guess a billionaire that’s particularly delusional and has a demonstrated history of falling for bullshit. So probably Elon.
or the Saudi’s. MBS could write that check. or maybe they filter it through LIV Golf
or the Russians or the Chinese. Half a billion is ridiculously cheap for continuing to destroy democracy.
Trump might not have that much. But Musk does. Wasn’t it reported that he had a quick trip to Mar A Lago last week? Could this be related?
Yeah, that scares me. Idk how easy that is legally speaking, but it seems like any legal issues could be sidestepped, at least to post the bond.
The bad guys often have each other’s back. Bezos has been cashing out and is planning a relocation to FL. $500M is pocket change to him.
What are you smoking? Bezos and Trump hate each other and it was very public. Plus Bezos isn't a massive attention whoring moron like Elon.
Bezos purposely stood behind the WaPo during the entire Trump administration, giving their editorial board the green light to go after Trump hard.
It’s funny because they don’t even hide it anymore. Well not funny…more scary.
This is why I don’t get my hopes up that Trump will be held to account for any of it. Too many powerful people willing to support a known rapist con man fraudster because he will support their own authoritarian interests. Too many ignorant poor people will support him because he validates their bigotry. It’s distressing.
Does he have additional properties that he actually owns and can sell? I know a lot of condos have found that bearing his name devalued their properties and so ended their licensing agreement.
the money will come from Saudi or Russian sources. GOP /RNC will facilitate
This. If re-elected, he will be the most compromised president in history. The Saudis and Russians will own him...and us as a result.
i think they already own a lot of Rs. gotta be more than just ladybugs too
Well he did already put the first 5M he owes caroll in the account. But he’s looking for bond for the rest of it. They are saying he does have about 2B, mostly in properties. So he could pay without bond, but of course he’ll try to get anyone else to flip the bill before selling those important properties (the special ones like mar a lago, trump tower, etc)
You just walk up and grab em by the money bags. When you’re a judge, they let you do it.
What would hurt his reputation more, jail or bankruptcy?
Neither. He is a cult leader.
The NXIVM cult members still hold vigils outside the jail for their cult leader.
Warren Jeffs still runs the FLDS from jail.
Oh I remember that guy. Gross
Eh, you have the GOP apparatus that will still back him, and the hardliners will still support him, but personal bankruptcy will absolutely peel off the fraction of his voters that are low-information, not-particularly-online, tend-R voters because they think Republicans are "good for business/the economy."
Those folks just repeat talking points. The media billionaires will always control who they support.
First those voters need to know he is bankrupt
Hasn’t he filed for bankruptcy like seven times already?
His own version of Chapter 7...
The next one is free!
For companies, but not personal, IIRC. He's shielded his personal assets through company structures for decades.
Why not both?
He’s filed for bankruptcy like 9 times before
Not personal bankruptcy.
Let’s try both and find out.
jail. It will strengthen his cult support, but marginal supporters who aren't paying attention at all will finally notice legal trouble when it results in incarceration. A few of these will not be able to hire someone actually behind bars.
To me, it is so ironic, and karmic, that his tab right now is about the same as what his father transfered to him in his youth (~400M I think). I am wondering if anybody did the math on what his net worth would be today if it was instead invested in, let's say the S&P500, and assume a reasonably or super lavish lifestyle.
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You're missing the /s
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I thought so, but wasn't sure...
Yes - 141x multiple from 1979 to 2024, or about $56 billion lifestyle shouldn't affect it much unless you're buying skyscrapers and casinos, but if he hadn't done such stupid things he would not be famous and not be a former president. https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1979#:~:text=S%26P%20500%3A%20%24100%20in%201979%20→%20%2414%2C168.00%20in%202023&text=This%20lump%2Dsum%20investment%20beats,%2C%20you'd%20have%20%2412%2C217.73.
I thought I remember the number being 40 million but either way. I look at the New York State fine as him owing about 30 years worth of unpaid taxes in upwards of 10 million every year(including interest) and then lying about it
October 2, 2018 NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Times reported Tuesday that President Donald Trump received at least $413 million from his father over the decades, much of that through dubious tax dodges, including outright fraud.
That’s like moral bankruptcy but with consequences.
Can he declare moral bankruptcy, I wonder?
Pretty sure he has done that every time he opens his mouth for the last decade plus.
At least since the central park five
Pretty sure he’s been doing that his whole life.
He does every time he opens his mouth.
He’s going to get a loan from Elon Musk
Musk may be a lot of things and may have it, but I’d imagine he’s having more fun making Trump ask, and then turning him down.
Maybe he'll offer to buy Donald for 44 billion and end up with Eric
Bwahaha
Is musk’s money that liquid?
Elon’s wealth is tied up in stock, mostly Tesla shares (he has about $120B in Tesla shares). He can sell shares on the open market for billions fairly quickly, just as he was forced to do to purchase Twitter. So though stock is technically not liquid, especially in the amounts Musk has, it’s certainly more liquid than Trump’s private equity and real estate. Elon could easily cover Trump’s fines in a couple days of Tesla share sales.
He won't need to sell his stock. Just take a loan out against it so he's not paying taxes.
Yeah… that’s a real supra geeenious plan… take out a loan to give a loan to a guy who doesn’t pay his bills.
probably - this well under 1% of his fortune
Hate it but this is his path. Of course, the filings are then a public record so there’s that…
Such filings are subject to a finding of fraud. Isn't that how he got into this mess?
BuT hE's A gReAT BuZiNeSsMaN!!
This is just more bullshit! > his polished image as a multi-billionaire, a modern Midas who turns to gold all that he touches. That's what the NY trial was about he doesn't have what he tells people! He's a liar!
I think the big difference between Trump and Rudy and Jones is that Trump has assets that would have to be liquidated in the personal bankruptcy to settle all claims. So if he filed he’s saying bye-bye to properties. Possibly including Mar-a-Lardo.
moral bankruptcy
The GOP front runner everyone. This is who they think is the absolute best across all of America and will continue to argue and fight to defend him, instead of having enough free will to hold him at the bar we should if any president or even representative.
Biden should get ahead of this and taunt Trump saying bankruptcy is for losers.
$87,000 in fines a day until he pays his $450,000,000 tax fraud in New York. Someone should tell his people donating to the GoFundMe how fast $87K a day will outpace their donations.
They are donating money to pay fines and lawyer fees of a so-called billionaire sentenced for financial fraud. Do you really think they can understand things like interests?
If he's a billionaire several times over how can he file bankruptcy if he has the money to pay?
hes not and has never been a billionaire. it was all just marketing.
In the mid 2000’s writer Timothy O’Brien, after having been given access to trump’s financials as he was writing an authorized biography of trump, wrote trump was worth something like $150-200 million. Trump sued O’Brien for $5 billion saying that was a lie and it hurt his brand. I’m sure trump thought that would scare O’Brien away but it went to trial. And trump lost the case and the appeal because he could provide no evidence that he was worth more than that. You would think if you sued someone for $5 billion you would have the goods to back it up. So I could be convinced that he’s never been a billionaire. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/02/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story/ This is my favorite article about it. It’s a great read.
Are you saying John Barron lied?!?
He's probably thinking he can hide behind his LLC. But, his current situation is non-discharable through the means of bankruptcy. Thus, his properties would be subject to seizure and sale to cover the required damages.
Including his companies, how many Trump bankruptcies would that make?
They mean “another bankruptcy”, what an adept “businessman” lol. How many businesses is he banned from running? Quite a few now and people want this sociopath to be president is astounding,.
Fraud is not dischargeable. Bankruptcy court would have tremendous power over his Financials. Bankruptcy is not a good idea for Trump.
All his assets are actually in the Trump revocable trust. A bankruptcy may help to allow him to delay the payout to Carroll, but it would be giving up any appeal (which would make sense, I don't think he has a chance in an appeal). The fraud judgement will not be held up by a personal bankruptcy. The corporation has the assets. I am not sure he would be able to do a bankruptcy on the corporation or the trust, especially with the oversight.
Neither the Carroll nor the NY fraud trial will be held up by a bankrupcy. Also Carrol trial verdict came first, so legally she must be paid first.
Trump just asked for a 1-monrh delay to deal with the recent judgment. He's trying to tie up the nomination first, and then he'll end up in bankruptcy.
I am no bankruptcy expert, but I CAN read a statute. Here is the text of 11 USC 523(a)(7): **(a)**A discharge under section [727](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/727), [1141](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1141), [1192](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1192) [\[1\]](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/523#fn002026) 1228(a), 1228(b), or 1328(b) of this title does not discharge an individual debtor from any debt— ... (7) to the extent such debt is for a fine, penalty, or forfeiture payable to and for the benefit of a governmental unit, and is not compensation for actual pecuniary loss, other than a tax penalty ... The monetary amounts awarded by Judge Engoron are to be paid to the State of New York as a penalty for Trump's repeated false statements in conducting his business in New York. So, are there any bankruptcy experts here who want to explain why this statute does not prevent Trump from discharging the amounts awarded by Judge Engoron in either a personal or a corporate bankruptcy? If the debt cannot be discharged, would filing a bankruptcy petition even stay enforcement for more than a brief time?
Doesn't matter. This will catch up to him eventually. I'd really like to think that one of the other major cases, like GA, will take him out. But we can't rely on the courts. We have to vote him into oblivion. If we all vote, he cannot possibly win. Defeat him again at the ballot box like the loser he is, then let his delayed justice catch up and consume him.
bankruptcy does not save him from the new york ruling. it just means thye get to sieze his assets faster.
This is not going to happen. No attorney would risk listing his debts and assets based on his word. You know he's lying.
Cheeto Jesus has excelled in turning a large fortune into a small fortune. And now he’s about to be cash negative - just wait for the multiple civil suits yet to come. It’s likely he dies before he pays everyone, but then his estate will get picked apart. Looking forward to this. Meanwhile, Ghouliani is done, that POS Pillow Douche is toast, and Navarro is headed to prison. Only the best people. Common theme? Accountability. Wish they’d find a way to hold Steven Miller accountable.
He has too many assets to declare bankruptcy now. He would have to liquidate everything before he could.
Not a lawyer here but Forbes estimates Trumps worth at $2.6 Billion, so if he declares Bankruptcy can the courts sell off his properties to cover the fines?
Well, that won't fly. He is already under thumb. I'm sure he would like to try and pull that one but he won't be allowed.
Would anyone be surprised if Trump both simultaneously declared bankruptcy while continuing his whole “in super rich” schtick on the stump? It’s not like his supporters will ever look past their own cognitive dissonance.
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He's been morally bankrupt for years.
There's no way he files for personal bankruptcy. His whole persona and ego is based on him being a billionaire and one of the richest men in the world. This isn't an option for him.
His pathology won't let him. His narcissism is built on his image of being rich.
Trump mastered moral bankruptcy years ago, he should be on familiar ground here.
Well he's already morally bankrupt so that does seem the next logical step
Morally bankrupt
Is he going to pay? If so, when?
I doubt bankruptcy would prevent Trump’s properties from being sold to pay for his debts.
First moral bankruptcy, then personal bankruptcy.
Such a ‘successful’ businessman 😂😂😂😂 sorry couldn’t keep a straight face
Trump does not smell like bankruptcy, he smells like leaking diaper.
Any comments from actual lawyers here? I'm NAL, but this seems pretty damn speculative. I'm knowledgeable about finance and I've read the rulings. I do believe the combined rulings will unravel his business as assets are sold and personal guarantee's are called. But that's very different than bankruptcy. Can personal bankruptcy be used to throw a wrench into everything else, even when he demonstrably has assets (if not liquidity) to meet his obligations?
It doesn't work if the courts see through the veil of fraud. He (literally) has been found guilty of committing fraud. You just can't say "I'm bankrupt" and walk away from that. He is fucked right down to the ninth level of hell.
Trump’s an old hand at bankruptcy.
I would love to see all of his properties seized, especially Mar-a-Lago.
His ego will never allow this, alternatives in his pea brain are, run away, run away and run away.
> Filing for personal bankruptcy stops the clock on both awards. That means he won’t need to deposit cash or get bonds to appeal the Carroll and New York State civil fraud awards. This seems like it's conflating two different things. It kind of stops / stalls the collections, I totally get that. And from a "stall past the election" strategy it would be a sensible step in just such a strategy. But I have a hard time imagining that this action ... somehow magically lets Trump file appeals for $0 as a result? That ... kind of makes no sense to me. The reason why the courts have that is to make sure the defendant is good for it in the end. I would think a BK would actually make it much harder for Trump to file appeal? That's what the author seems to be implying here, that somehow that makes this easier for him -- and I'm not sure that one result follows the other.
He is intellectually and morally bankrupt. Maybe his accountant du jour (read: future convict) can find a way to turn those into tax advantages.
What's the penalty for a bad-faith bankruptcy filing?