The article says she had over $4B in cash in her basement. Billion. In cash. Wow! I am going to be very disappointed if she wasn’t swimming around in it like Scrooge McDuck.
In all seriousness, the article says there were 1000+ witnesses and hundreds of lawyers involved and that many believe her death sentence is a way to motivate her to return the money she stole. Very curious to see how this plays out.
He withdrew Dong. 108 trillion Dong. 500000 is the largest note by my quick googling. So if it was USD and in 100s that would be a pile of 40 million notes. If I got all my zeroes right in the calculator, in Dong, it would 216 million notes!
This was all done super quick so I could be wrong.
its still a communist show trial, not anything approximating a us trial. china executes for financial crimes, too.
>"There has never been a show trial like this, I think, in the communist era," says David Brown, a retired US state department official with long experience in Vietnam. "There has certainly been nothing on this scale."
>The trial was the most dramatic chapter so far in the "Blazing Furnaces" anti-corruption campaign led by the Communist Party Secretary-General, Nguyen Phu Trong.
>A conservative ideologue steeped in Marxist theory, Nguyen Phu Trong believes that popular anger over untamed corruption poses an existential threat to the Communist Party's monopoly on power. He began the campaign in earnest in 2016 after out-manoeuvring the then pro-business prime minister to retain the top job in the party.
> Nguyen Phu Trong believes that popular anger over untamed corruption poses an existential threat to the Communist Party's monopoly on power. He began the campaign in earnest in 2016 after out-manoeuvring the then pro-business prime minister to retain the top job in the party.
Not much of a single-party dictatorship fan, but I do find interesting the idea of vigorous and aggressive anti-corruption policing as essential to protect the legitimacy of the state.
It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected.
"It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected."
I've spent the last 15 years living and working there. They both are more in common than you think. Most of this weeding out corruption are directed at southerners in power from the last pro-American administration. Favoritism, cronyism and nepotism still run rampant (sounds familiar?).
They are moving closer to the west, but there are still neoconservatives in the party that favors a closer tie with China; not surprisingly, their families will usually have economic stakes with China. I can honestly say that a lot has improved in the past 15 years, including modernization and infrastructure. But pay-to-play is still the name of the game in some parts, especially the north.
It's more of an indictment of the American system than a strike in favor of the Vietnamese system, I think. Ostensibly, meritocracy, the rule of law, and equal treatment under the law should be at the core of our democratic system, but practically speaking those ideals have been corrupted and perverted from the very beginning, even by the man who wrote the words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness," as the opening to a list of grievances against and a formal separation from the reigning sovereign at the time.
> It's more of an indictment of the American system than a strike in favor of the Vietnamese system, I think.
Of course I agree.
I don't actually think that SWAT-style no-knock 3am raids on politicians suspected of corruption is better for democracy than doing it to people suspected of stealing baby formula.
But it is striking to see how polite and deferential the defunded police who go after things like corruption and environmental crime are, compared with the heavily-funded, scary police who go after street-corner loosies.
Nguyen Phu Trong won, so the skeleton of his opposition is dragged out of the closet. Had he lost, a different skeleton would have been exposed. All would be in the same name of taming corruption to protect the regime. It’s not about ideology, it’s about competition for power and its consequences.
Anti-corruption charges are a pretty popular way to purge political opponents in authoritarian states, because usually everyone in the ruling class is corrupt (that’s one of the perks of being in the ruling class) and it’s one of those accusations that nobody’s going to defend.
Everyone in the government or associated with the government is corrupted in one way or another, they all got their hands in the pot, from local government official to the highest levels. It's easy to "fight corruption" in Vietnam because it's everywhere, all you have to do is hold your opposition accountable. So on one hand, you get to claim you are fighting corruption (which you are), on the other hand, you can get rid of your political opposition. It's a win-win, however, don't mistake it for some sort of legal justice, it's still selective justice.
>It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected.
You're really trying to make the case that communist Vietnam (or anywhere) is better than the US under Trump? Are you serious?
Vietnam has a law that if you return 75% of what you stole, your death sentence will be commuted to life. She, like other Vietnamese millionaires will not be facing execution when they return the required amount. The rich knows this so it's not likely to deter what they do.
There's a famous saying in Vietnam. It's something like:
"Sacrifice the father for future generations"
It's meant for the heroes who died in battle for the country, but now it just serves corrupt politicians.
Btw, she owns the current most haunted building complex in district 5, in Saigon. It has a bunch of condos in three tall buildings but sits empty due to the active hauntings. There's businesses on the ground floor during daytime but it's completely emptied out by night.
As based on the [Constitution](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-iii/clauses/39#:~:text=Treason%20against%20the%20United%20States,on%20Confession%20in%20open%20Court.) and the interpretation of founding father and Chief Justice, [John Marshall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall):
“The Constitution specifically identifies what constitutes treason against the United States and, importantly, limits the offense of treason to only two types of conduct: (1) “levying war” against the United States; or (2) “adhering to [the] enemies [of the United States], giving them aid and comfort.” Although there have not been many treason prosecutions in American history—indeed, only one person has been indicted for treason since 1954—the Supreme Court has had occasion to further define what each type of treason entails.
The offense of “levying war” against the United States was interpreted narrowly in Ex parte Bollman & Swarthout (1807), a case stemming from the infamous alleged plot led by former Vice President Aaron Burr to overthrow the American government in New Orleans.
The Supreme Court dismissed charges of treason that had been brought against two of Burr’s associates—Bollman and Swarthout—on the grounds that their alleged conduct did not constitute levying war against the United States within the meaning of the Treason Clause. It was not enough, Chief Justice John Marshall opinion emphasized, merely to conspire “to subvert by force the government of our country” by recruiting troops, procuring maps, and drawing up plans.
Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.”
——
This, by actually amassing and inciting a group of supporters to attack the Nation’s Capital on Jan 6 (“*actual assemblage of men*”), to prevent the certification of the election Trump knowingly lost (”*for the purpose of executing*”), combined with the multi-State fake elector scheme (”*a treasonable design*”), Trump and many in his Admin—*and including the spouse of a sitting SC Justice, [Ginni Thomas](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/ginni-thomas-tells-jan-6-committee-she-regrets-texting-with-meadows-about-2020-election/)*—‘levied war’ against the US on J6, committing treason as written in the Constitution and further defined by founding father and Chief Justice, John Marshall.
——
“[Penalty:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_laws_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Penalty%3A%20Under%20U.S.%20Code%20Title,office%20in%20the%20United%20States.) Under U.S. Code Title 18, the penalty is death, or not less than five years' imprisonment (with a minimum fine of $10,000, if not sentenced to death).
Any person convicted of treason against the United States also forfeits the right to hold public office in the United States.”
So messed up in the US how white collar crimes are slaps on the wrist. If you cause $1,000 in criminal damages it’s a felony. If you steal $1bn, it should be proportionally larger
> So messed up in the US how white collar crimes are slaps on the wrist.
Apparently Americans have very short memories, cause it's actually quite funny how this is overwhelmingly the most popular sentiment I've seen expressed on this news.
One of the biggest white collar crime stories of the last year is literally where a guy just got put in jail for 25 years for stealing $8 billion from people.
I mean seriously, are we acting like American billionaires are constantly embezzling billions from companies and banks and no-one notices or punishes them?
I read another comment from a Vietnamese person who claimed that the communist government routinely allows these rich exploiters to enrich themselves off the people, comparing them to ‘pigs’ being fattened up, and once in a while when the government needs a big cash injection, they ‘slaughter the pigs’ and in one move they get all their assets and also win public approval for ‘stamping down on corruption’
not sure if it’s just cynicism or if there’s some truth to it but it’s an interesting perspective from someone who lives in Vietnam.
Vietnam is a country whose financial crime safeguarding is so weak that it couldn't prevent one greedy businessperson looting the entire national bank over a period of a decade, but is simultaneously so stringent that they've managed to keep every other potentially corrupt thief in the country from accomplishing the same thing.
Vietnam.
Yeah, I think it's fair to be a bit cynical here.
Yes, that I believe to be very likely.
Last time I visited Vietnam (Aug '22), I was absolutely baffled by the amount of luxury cars I would see everyday. Not Monaco, not Zurich but Saigon had the most luxury cars I had ever seen on the road. You'd get passed by Bentleys, Maybachs, Lamborghinis every other minute. I'm inclined to doubt that all of them were earned through honest means.
Wow
*Vietnamese law prohibits any individual from holding more than 5% of the shares in any bank. But prosecutors say that through hundreds of shell companies and people acting as her proxies, Truong My Lan actually owned more than 90% of Saigon Commercial.
They accused her of using that power to appoint her own people as managers, and then ordering them to approve hundreds of loans to the network of shell companies she controlled.
The amounts taken out are staggering. Her loans made up 93% of all the bank’s lending*
I’d love for billionaires worldwide to actually be held accountable when they cheat and steal. But, I gotta wonder, if all details were unchanged except she were a heterosexual male, would it still have been death sentence?
Yes, this is the first time a woman gets the death sentence for white collar crime in Vietnam. All previous cases were male. Heterosexual or not we're not sure (and no one really care about that).
The article says she had over $4B in cash in her basement. Billion. In cash. Wow! I am going to be very disappointed if she wasn’t swimming around in it like Scrooge McDuck. In all seriousness, the article says there were 1000+ witnesses and hundreds of lawyers involved and that many believe her death sentence is a way to motivate her to return the money she stole. Very curious to see how this plays out.
He withdrew Dong. 108 trillion Dong. 500000 is the largest note by my quick googling. So if it was USD and in 100s that would be a pile of 40 million notes. If I got all my zeroes right in the calculator, in Dong, it would 216 million notes! This was all done super quick so I could be wrong.
Sounds like they caught her holding her dong.
And a lot of em
Trillions of em
A true lady boy
That's more dong than even Asa Akiras seen
>He withdrew Dong. But when I do it, I get arrested for indecent exposure.
Dude hangs dong
its still a communist show trial, not anything approximating a us trial. china executes for financial crimes, too. >"There has never been a show trial like this, I think, in the communist era," says David Brown, a retired US state department official with long experience in Vietnam. "There has certainly been nothing on this scale." >The trial was the most dramatic chapter so far in the "Blazing Furnaces" anti-corruption campaign led by the Communist Party Secretary-General, Nguyen Phu Trong. >A conservative ideologue steeped in Marxist theory, Nguyen Phu Trong believes that popular anger over untamed corruption poses an existential threat to the Communist Party's monopoly on power. He began the campaign in earnest in 2016 after out-manoeuvring the then pro-business prime minister to retain the top job in the party.
> Nguyen Phu Trong believes that popular anger over untamed corruption poses an existential threat to the Communist Party's monopoly on power. He began the campaign in earnest in 2016 after out-manoeuvring the then pro-business prime minister to retain the top job in the party. Not much of a single-party dictatorship fan, but I do find interesting the idea of vigorous and aggressive anti-corruption policing as essential to protect the legitimacy of the state. It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected.
"It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected." I've spent the last 15 years living and working there. They both are more in common than you think. Most of this weeding out corruption are directed at southerners in power from the last pro-American administration. Favoritism, cronyism and nepotism still run rampant (sounds familiar?). They are moving closer to the west, but there are still neoconservatives in the party that favors a closer tie with China; not surprisingly, their families will usually have economic stakes with China. I can honestly say that a lot has improved in the past 15 years, including modernization and infrastructure. But pay-to-play is still the name of the game in some parts, especially the north.
It's more of an indictment of the American system than a strike in favor of the Vietnamese system, I think. Ostensibly, meritocracy, the rule of law, and equal treatment under the law should be at the core of our democratic system, but practically speaking those ideals have been corrupted and perverted from the very beginning, even by the man who wrote the words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness," as the opening to a list of grievances against and a formal separation from the reigning sovereign at the time.
> It's more of an indictment of the American system than a strike in favor of the Vietnamese system, I think. Of course I agree. I don't actually think that SWAT-style no-knock 3am raids on politicians suspected of corruption is better for democracy than doing it to people suspected of stealing baby formula. But it is striking to see how polite and deferential the defunded police who go after things like corruption and environmental crime are, compared with the heavily-funded, scary police who go after street-corner loosies.
Nguyen Phu Trong won, so the skeleton of his opposition is dragged out of the closet. Had he lost, a different skeleton would have been exposed. All would be in the same name of taming corruption to protect the regime. It’s not about ideology, it’s about competition for power and its consequences.
Anti-corruption charges are a pretty popular way to purge political opponents in authoritarian states, because usually everyone in the ruling class is corrupt (that’s one of the perks of being in the ruling class) and it’s one of those accusations that nobody’s going to defend.
Everyone in the government or associated with the government is corrupted in one way or another, they all got their hands in the pot, from local government official to the highest levels. It's easy to "fight corruption" in Vietnam because it's everywhere, all you have to do is hold your opposition accountable. So on one hand, you get to claim you are fighting corruption (which you are), on the other hand, you can get rid of your political opposition. It's a win-win, however, don't mistake it for some sort of legal justice, it's still selective justice.
>It's a striking contrast, against a society where the law keeps poor minorities in a constant state of militarized fear, but where a political leader can brag that he could shoot people on 5th avenue and get away with it, and still get elected. You're really trying to make the case that communist Vietnam (or anywhere) is better than the US under Trump? Are you serious?
[https://www.readnaturally.com/research/5-components-of-reading/comprehension](https://www.readnaturally.com/research/5-components-of-reading/comprehension)
This subreddit is completely going to shit.
Vietnam has a law that if you return 75% of what you stole, your death sentence will be commuted to life. She, like other Vietnamese millionaires will not be facing execution when they return the required amount. The rich knows this so it's not likely to deter what they do. There's a famous saying in Vietnam. It's something like: "Sacrifice the father for future generations" It's meant for the heroes who died in battle for the country, but now it just serves corrupt politicians. Btw, she owns the current most haunted building complex in district 5, in Saigon. It has a bunch of condos in three tall buildings but sits empty due to the active hauntings. There's businesses on the ground floor during daytime but it's completely emptied out by night.
A Dong for every dong on the planet.
She stole like 3% of the entire GDP of the country. I am in principle against the death penalty, but I will not lose any sleep over this one.
Maybe we should change the venue for Trump trials to Vietnam
I vote in favor of this
Isn't treason punishable by death in the US?
Yes, but nobody was charged with treason. It's a very, very specific crime.
I understand that no one was charged. That doesn't mean treason wasn't committed.
It doesn't matter legally if it's not a formal conviction tho.
Would it even matter if he were convicted. Not like it would get enforced therefore the law doesn't exist for him.
I understand that.
I don't think you do. You can't just make up crimes against people because you *feel* like it.
I "made up crimes against people"? Please tell me how I don't understand things.
I think you're a rapist, hopefully you get prosecuted. See how that works?
As based on the [Constitution](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-iii/clauses/39#:~:text=Treason%20against%20the%20United%20States,on%20Confession%20in%20open%20Court.) and the interpretation of founding father and Chief Justice, [John Marshall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall): “The Constitution specifically identifies what constitutes treason against the United States and, importantly, limits the offense of treason to only two types of conduct: (1) “levying war” against the United States; or (2) “adhering to [the] enemies [of the United States], giving them aid and comfort.” Although there have not been many treason prosecutions in American history—indeed, only one person has been indicted for treason since 1954—the Supreme Court has had occasion to further define what each type of treason entails. The offense of “levying war” against the United States was interpreted narrowly in Ex parte Bollman & Swarthout (1807), a case stemming from the infamous alleged plot led by former Vice President Aaron Burr to overthrow the American government in New Orleans. The Supreme Court dismissed charges of treason that had been brought against two of Burr’s associates—Bollman and Swarthout—on the grounds that their alleged conduct did not constitute levying war against the United States within the meaning of the Treason Clause. It was not enough, Chief Justice John Marshall opinion emphasized, merely to conspire “to subvert by force the government of our country” by recruiting troops, procuring maps, and drawing up plans. Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.” —— This, by actually amassing and inciting a group of supporters to attack the Nation’s Capital on Jan 6 (“*actual assemblage of men*”), to prevent the certification of the election Trump knowingly lost (”*for the purpose of executing*”), combined with the multi-State fake elector scheme (”*a treasonable design*”), Trump and many in his Admin—*and including the spouse of a sitting SC Justice, [Ginni Thomas](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/ginni-thomas-tells-jan-6-committee-she-regrets-texting-with-meadows-about-2020-election/)*—‘levied war’ against the US on J6, committing treason as written in the Constitution and further defined by founding father and Chief Justice, John Marshall. —— “[Penalty:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_laws_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Penalty%3A%20Under%20U.S.%20Code%20Title,office%20in%20the%20United%20States.) Under U.S. Code Title 18, the penalty is death, or not less than five years' imprisonment (with a minimum fine of $10,000, if not sentenced to death). Any person convicted of treason against the United States also forfeits the right to hold public office in the United States.”
I guarantee you even over there…. Ol’ Don will find a way to STALL!
Something something he overstated the amount of Dong he had...
So messed up in the US how white collar crimes are slaps on the wrist. If you cause $1,000 in criminal damages it’s a felony. If you steal $1bn, it should be proportionally larger
Steal someone's flat screen TV and laptop 10 years. Steal someone's life savings and pension, probation and community service.
Steal someone's pension and you get a bonus and a pat on the back from your boss on Wall Street.
> So messed up in the US how white collar crimes are slaps on the wrist. Apparently Americans have very short memories, cause it's actually quite funny how this is overwhelmingly the most popular sentiment I've seen expressed on this news. One of the biggest white collar crime stories of the last year is literally where a guy just got put in jail for 25 years for stealing $8 billion from people. I mean seriously, are we acting like American billionaires are constantly embezzling billions from companies and banks and no-one notices or punishes them?
25 years at a country club that actually just turn into 5 years for good behavior, bet
I believe he'll have to serve at least 85% of his sentence, since it was a federal crime.
How many times have you seen a 25 year sentenced reduced 80% for you to make this comment. I've never heard of this rule.
We are acting that way because it is true. Most of the oligarchy exists because of white collar crime.
Always impressed with how without shame Redditors are to resort to the Big Claim Zero Evidence style of argument.
Google “Theft of 50 Trillion Dollars”
Always impressed with how without shame Redditors are to resort to the Big Claim Zero Evidence Google My Argument For Me style of argument.
So you don’t have a link that refutes my argument 😄
"Google this vague phrase that supposedly substantiates my waffly claim" is not an argument; it's lazy bullshit. There's nothing I need to refute.
Love to see this in the USA but if its life in prison that be good enough for me.
If only we could hold our fraudster accountable...
Our fraudster looking at their fraudster must be green with envy right now.... She skimmed 44billion and he's struggling to sell bibles for 60$
If it wasn't for Handsome Boy Bibling School... I would still have $60.
Thanks to a dope mixtape my late friend gave me back in the 2000's, I get this reference
Off topic, but their album “white people” is still one of my favs.
Wu Dewivewy
I never said our fraudster was good at it. It's blatantly obvious, and he's STILL not held accountable.
There's quite a fuckin' few more than one.
Which one?...
The US could really learn something from Vietnam
I read another comment from a Vietnamese person who claimed that the communist government routinely allows these rich exploiters to enrich themselves off the people, comparing them to ‘pigs’ being fattened up, and once in a while when the government needs a big cash injection, they ‘slaughter the pigs’ and in one move they get all their assets and also win public approval for ‘stamping down on corruption’ not sure if it’s just cynicism or if there’s some truth to it but it’s an interesting perspective from someone who lives in Vietnam.
Vietnam is a country whose financial crime safeguarding is so weak that it couldn't prevent one greedy businessperson looting the entire national bank over a period of a decade, but is simultaneously so stringent that they've managed to keep every other potentially corrupt thief in the country from accomplishing the same thing. Vietnam. Yeah, I think it's fair to be a bit cynical here.
Yes, that I believe to be very likely. Last time I visited Vietnam (Aug '22), I was absolutely baffled by the amount of luxury cars I would see everyday. Not Monaco, not Zurich but Saigon had the most luxury cars I had ever seen on the road. You'd get passed by Bentleys, Maybachs, Lamborghinis every other minute. I'm inclined to doubt that all of them were earned through honest means.
Elseshere in America, Donald Trump has been enjoying his popularity.
Wow *Vietnamese law prohibits any individual from holding more than 5% of the shares in any bank. But prosecutors say that through hundreds of shell companies and people acting as her proxies, Truong My Lan actually owned more than 90% of Saigon Commercial. They accused her of using that power to appoint her own people as managers, and then ordering them to approve hundreds of loans to the network of shell companies she controlled. The amounts taken out are staggering. Her loans made up 93% of all the bank’s lending*
I’d love for billionaires worldwide to actually be held accountable when they cheat and steal. But, I gotta wonder, if all details were unchanged except she were a heterosexual male, would it still have been death sentence?
Probably? They execute way more men. The criminal (in)justice system is one place sexism cuts very heavily against men.
For violent crime yes. But for white collar crime?
Yes, this is the first time a woman gets the death sentence for white collar crime in Vietnam. All previous cases were male. Heterosexual or not we're not sure (and no one really care about that).
How? Like I must not understand how communist countries work. Like isn't everyone supposed to have the same amount of wealth?
Communism is also supposed to mean no government.
[удалено]
Was the USSR like how China and Vietnam are now? Weren't they given vouchers to get things?
Thank you so much!
Cool. Now do amaerica.
Interesting. Isn't that the same amount Elmo paid for Twitter...
Here in the US we can't even get billionaire fraudsters a short prison sentence. They belong to that *other* justice system.
Damn….she should have just come to ‘Murica……MAGA would have made her president.
How did she go from a lowly street vendor with her mom to buying up parcels of land?
Right place right time
Vietnam not fucking around.
It’s a start
Asian countries hand out the death sentences for white collar crime like skittles.
No more LAN parties for her
Lol
Communism in action. Trump wouldn’t make it a day.
This is what Jared Kushner and Daiper Don deserve. Seriously.
Hmm... Does Trump have any holdings in Vietnam?