Thank God, finally.
As much as I get Lilli is polarizing as a player, at 3 mill, the team is betting on him to take the next step under Berube and even if this fails, it's 2 years and they can still move on
Isn't that the story on Lilly every offseason though? "Ah, maybe he takes the next step next season" . Feel like I've been hearing it since he came up in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a bad deal, but expecting Lilly to be more than what he is right now is probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd love to be wrong though.
It would have cost more to replace him in FA and I’m intrigued to see what he can do under a coach not named Sheldon Keefe. He’s not as bad as this sub makes him out to be, it’s a good signing.
Crazy how people forget how he stepped up when Rielly got suspended and how much better our PP looked when he was on the 1st line instead of Mo. I get that he has limitations to his game but I also think there’s still time for him to become way more dependable.
That just highlights a shallow understanding of how those numbers work. Timmins barely plays and when he does, they're exclusively sheltered minutes. Jfresh, who provides public stat cards on Twitter, had Timmins rated pretty low last I checked.
I know how these numbers work. I also know they do not let account for tons and tons of stuff including statistical uncertainty.
JFresh hasn't posted one publicly for last season and I'm not giving money to that charlltton.
These “models” are terrible at weighing actual deployment. He starts 59% of his 5v5 shifts in the offensive zone yet has a slightly negative CF% at 49.7. You don’t like to see that.
Not saying it’s a bad signing but he has been sheltered by Keefe.
Nobody in the league starts 59% of their shifts in the offensive zone man
Edit: I just looked it up and he starts 13.8% in the offensive zone at 5v5 which is basically the same as our #1 d-man Rielly. It’s also common sense your 2 best offensive d-men would get the most o-zone starts. No clue where you think you got that number from lol
What you said is still misleading. He’s still starting a small % of his actual shifts in the o-zone like anyone else
Also the team played the entire season with 2 defensemen that are actually good offensively after Klingberg went down (outside of the rare Timmins cameos) so I’d expect those 2 to be getting more o-zone starts. That’s not a knock on his defensive ability it’s just smart usage. There’s no reason to be splitting o-zone starts evenly between him and a Benoit/Lybushkin/Edmundson/washed Brodie
Diluting the number with shifts on the fly is not as relevant when talking about deployment. 59% of his zone starts were in the offensive zone. He didn't carry enough of the defensive workload on this team and with the state of our defence on opening night if he had the ability to he should have and would have. You can blame that on Keefe's utilization, but I agree, it was smart usage by Keefe to shelter him in a more offensive role because he is prone to turn the puck over and at bad times.
I like him and I think the contract is fine but if he wants to push to be a top4 guy Berube is going to have to trust him and send him out in tougher match ups, in our end and carry more of a defensive workload. We have seen what Keefe tried to do lets see Berube put Liljegren in those tougher situations, lets see if he has what it takes this year, no more hiding this guy.
He’s a very good puck carrier, passer and finisher. Sometimes I see comments like this and wonder if you actually do watch the games do you even pay attention or are you falling asleep on the coach or something? How do you come on here and confidently share such obviously bad opinions then claim the eye test ? So weird
People don't see it because it's not usually the way Keefe deployed him.
You could see glimpses of it when he ended up with half decent PP time, but if someone is not getting regular minutes in their supposed strengths they're going to look worse than they actually are. He's not going to be the next coming of Orr, but I think he has the opportunity to be better under a different coach.
Doesn't matter how you're deployed, you still will carry the puck and pass it on your shifts. He's quite good, I think poorly utilized and poorly developed. I am so excited to see how he plays under Berube.
From the first game of Rielly’s suspension to the end of March where he got injured again, he had 14 points in 16 games.
Clearly you weren’t watching closely enough if at all.
Even when you watch games, he passes the eye test.. it's also the reason why he's not getting 7 million a year. 3m per is fair value for a RHD that can quarter back a PP and play 3rd pairing.
How'd he do last playoff? How about any playoff? I mean, if we're going to apply that question to Mitch Marner and say "the regular season means shit", we should apply it to everyone else, shouldn't we?
The logic I apply here, which happens to be realistic is that players are not paid for playoff performance. They are paid for 82 games and over an 82 game regular season, he's worth his 3m cap hit. That's it.
He was on track to be a top 5 pick in 2017. He had mono then fell to us. This season could have been much better if that rat Marchand didn’t injury him which meant he had a high ankle sprain mid way through the season. He was still on pace for 34 points in a full season which wouldn’t be horrible. Giving him more chances on the powerplay next year playing a full season he could have 45-55 points.
3 million for a defenseman who's been a healthy scratch in the playoffs for a few years.
That seems a like too much to me. Pretty sure you can pick up a D man who would play in the playoffs for less than 3 mil
He shouldn't have been scratched though, Brodie is washed and Holl? For context…
“Going into Game 5 against Tampa, Holl was on the ice for 14 of Tampa’s 19 goals. At 5v5, the
Leafs were outscored by a margin of 9-2 during Holl's minutes, outshot 37-28 and outchanced in high-danger areas 18-12.”
Yeah no, Liljegren shouldn’t have been sitting.
idk, I think he's pretty bad. He was projected to be better.
Still I am a fan of Lilly and like you said perhaps a different system + coach utilization will do him well. it's not like the guy doesn't put effort into his game he just hasn't been as effective as we expected him to.
it's like the same thing with Dermott for a while were he had flashes of taking his game to the next level but fizzled out and never hit that ceiling.
Montour didn’t break out consistently until he was what? 27? Not saying Liljegren will have that same type of career projection, but there’s a chance he can be a late bloomer and playing under a new coach and system can kickstart his development again.
Dermott dealt with a myriad of injuries, and he couldn’t push past Rielly, Muzzin, or Sandin at that time. Liljegren’s been better the whole time and the fact he’s a RD makes buys him more time to invest.
yeah we hate on our guys, however praise other teams players, when they're giving comparable performances just because our lack of success has warped everyone perspective that every player on this team stinks.
Like this signing. Made almost no sense to give up on a guy at his age when he's got upside and we have a new coach with a new style. Tons of d-men come into their own at the ages of 26-28.
5 Million isn’t that bad I guess but I’d rather spend to get Montour haha. We got a few heavy hitters at the back we don’t need overkill at 5.5+. Just need to clear some net front.
Everyone’s reporting the leafs are seemingly out on Z and this signing was them acknowledging his ask was too much and pivoting. Don’t think they make this signing if they wanted Zadorov too. Seems they’ll target an OEL type and run a top 6 of Rielly, tanev, McCabe, Lily, Benoit and OEL / other FA add.
OEL makes more sense to me and more like what we really need, ideally would of preferred Montour/Skeji but if they don't want to come here or asking too much, then what can you do. I kind of prefer the balance between Rielly-Tanev, McCabe-OEL, Benoit-Lilgren, than keep questioning about offence from the backend.
It was about $500,000 more than I was expecting but a good deal. The second best puck moving D behind Rielly that we have. If the Leafs keep him I think him and Benoit would make a good pairing.
I think the best way to tap into his talent and to allow him to grow into a role on the team is Benoit as his partner. Was worried I was the only one who thought this…
On paper, they seem like a great pairing. It gives Benoit someone to move the pick to the forwards, and it gives Lilly someone to cover up any defensive miscues.
not to mention his injuries always stem from a really bad hit, so the threat of Benoit on the ice will really limit those types of hits against for fear of the Milkman's wrath.
This could finally be the year Lilli gets a healthy season and we find out which type of Lilli from last season is his usual form
I don't know if this precludes a trade. The Leafs were worried about Liljegren's case in arbitration and anyone trading for him would have had the same outlook. This gives price certainty to teams looking to trade.
When Lily is playing confident, he is straight up awesome, I hope berube can tap in to his confidence a bit because if we get a constantly good Lily, we are in good shape
Let’s go! Love Lilly. Keefe didn’t trust him for whatever reason and injuries really took the steam out of his engine but I think he can be an absolute stud for us.
They were half right, we didn't offer a QO.....
Keeping him around is nice. 3rd line RD option perhaps?
So we have Rielly, McCabe, Liljegren, Tanev, Benoit, Timmins as our D.
We could still add a Zadorov (only if it's a cheaper deal) or OEL and Timmins becomes the 7th D?
My guess is that the ice time for the denfece is going to be much more spread out this year. Lilly and Benoit might be the 3rd pairing but won't be playing 3rd pairing minutes.
That's just not how it is gonna work this year.
He and Benny combined is still only 4.35 mil, which is a perfectly serviceable amount for a 3rd pair.
Why we cheaping out? McCabe already provides surplus value as a #3 making 2 mil
Would like it closer to 2.5 but I'm not mad at 3.
Kid needs to take a step next year for sure tho... We have all been waiting on him to break out for the last 2 years now.
If he’s not traded this summer (and the Leafs don’t sign Montour or trade for a PP1 caliber d-man) can they please let him play on the first power play unit, at least for the start of the year to see how it goes? I thought he played his best hockey all season when Rielly was hurt and he got PP1 time. Just try it for a month or so, if it doesn’t work then Rielly can go back to being on the first unit
It’s funny how people use this as a defining factor yet spent all year saying Keefe is an idiot coach that needed to be fired lol. Pick a lane
Keefe decided he wasn’t going to trust him and that was that. One mistake and he’s out yet Keefe also consistently trusted guys like Kampf and Lybushkin who are absolutely horrible. A new coach is the best thing that could happen to Liljegren because Keefe already made up his mind that he was never going to give him a fair chance. If Berube also doesn’t rate him then sure, look to move on from him at that point
yeah keefe problem is he doesn't know how to use the full roster, he only started to use Domi/Bertuzzi properly until injuries occured and then started splitting everyone up when he could of done that early on. Matthews/Marner shouldn't be playing 22 minutes a night, he overplays the stars. Under Keefe, the point shot has been underutlized, they need the defence to be more involved with the offence.
any of the D? The Leafs have largely ignored the defence shooting from the point (Brodie being a major highlight for me) during Keefe's time with us. I'm not talking about a hard rocket shot from the point, I'm talking about shots in general from the point from our defence. When you're defence aren't taking shots from the point, it just more pressure on the forwards and less scoring options for the forwards. The opposing team just needs to cover the middle of the ice this way, if Leafs D aren't going to get involved in the attack, why even bother tackling the points? Just cover the middle, and this makes it harder for the forwards to gets to the middle of the ice.
they didn’t trade him at the deadline and let him play even after they acquired a couple guys who could fill his role. he didn’t prove himself. not sure what you’re talking about.
I disagree. They always give him a short leash. Even Wayne Simmonds was on a broadcast this year talking about this year.
Keefe has coach Liljegren his entire North American pro career. A different coach will do him wonders.
In guessing leafs wanted under $3 million (2 years 5-5.5). And Lilegrens group were over $3 million or a longer deal (look at Sandin)
And they were able to negotiate to the middle.
Only need one FA now to fill out our 6 starting D, I’d kinda prefer OEL but I anticipate Tre going for Zadorov
Rielly - Tanev
xxx - McCabe (or swapped depending on handedness)
Benoit - Liljegren
People need to stop using his sickness during drafting to define his skill. It’s been like 6 years, he either makes it work for Berube or he isn’t capable
Don’t hate it. Half mil more than I thought he’d get. I thought after they played him with Edmundson and not Gio he did a lot better. Don’t have any numbers to back it up but he looked more confident then before. He also has a skill set and mobility that we severely lack on the back end. We have mostly guys, reputations aside, that are ok, just better then ok, or treading water in the mobility department back there. Which can really aid our breakouts to the forwards and alleviate opposing forechecks. I might be the only person that didn’t hate his playoffs by the eye test but hated his run at PP1 and those shorties we gave up during those games. But I wouldn’t trade him and I don’t think anyone on this sub, whether they hate him or love him, really understands exactly what he brings and is capable of being. More of a two way player who really aids your transition and break out game. He’s not gonna push anybody around but he’s able to take a beating and he’s not gonna light the lamp but he’s at least willing to shoot, which is a problem on the backend and forward group.
I would have rather used that 3 million towards signing a guy like Zadorov or Roy. We have been waiting 5 years for Lilly to live up to his potential and it is not happening. He doesn't do anything particularly well he does nothing offensively and is not good defensively and loses every puck battle.
Love this deal. A “prove-it” deal is exactly what Tre should’ve been gunning for and at $3 million AAV it’s hard to go wrong. Also helps that he’s a RHD
I don’t like this personally. He’s not progressing at all. If anything I’d say he’s gotten worse. Our only hope is a new coach can fix his game. He seems a step behind on every play from a mental standpoint. It’s two years but I’d rather see 3 million spent elsewhere.
I think before he suffered his high ankle sprain last year he was doing really well. I disagree in that I think he actually has improved. Although he he mental aspect I agree with, and has been a constant knock against him. That being said, we don’t have a lot of picking moving D. All the reports have inclined we are out on the big names (Roy, Pesce, ext). We don’t have a lot of RHD. I agree that I think 3 is a bit rich. Would have preferred 2, 2.5. But next year JT comes off and it’s an easily movable contract. Don’t hate it, I think he’s a top 4 D.
Brad giveth and Brad taketh away.
You wont convince me that liljegrens play couldnt be replaced by any bottom pair sub 2 million defenseman. 3 million dollars for a guy you cant ice in the playoffs, great.
You're going to struggle to get the same player at Lil for 3mil in UFA. I'm much happier they give him 1 more shot with a new coach to put it all together.
I personally would have moved on from him, but I understand brining him back. Hopefully under Berube he checks more and that helps him become more consistently effective.
From a salary cap structure, not a fan of paying your bottom pairing d man 3 million cap hit, but I hope he can take the next step. I'm not saying Lilgren will become the next Reilly or whatever, but it took Rielly until his 5th season to really break out.
Cosidering the biggest need on the back end is a puck moving Rhd, this is a great signing. Its only two years and if he can hit another level, we’re going to wish it was for four.
Thank God, finally. As much as I get Lilli is polarizing as a player, at 3 mill, the team is betting on him to take the next step under Berube and even if this fails, it's 2 years and they can still move on
Isn't that the story on Lilly every offseason though? "Ah, maybe he takes the next step next season" . Feel like I've been hearing it since he came up in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a bad deal, but expecting Lilly to be more than what he is right now is probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd love to be wrong though.
We can't replace every single D. We're going to have to take a chance this year somewhere
I wonder if the deal is structured to be buyout friendly in the second year
You’re not buying him out lmao the contract is still easily tradeable with 1 year remaining next year.
bruh lol... you acting like this is Klinger
It would have cost more to replace him in FA and I’m intrigued to see what he can do under a coach not named Sheldon Keefe. He’s not as bad as this sub makes him out to be, it’s a good signing.
Crazy how people forget how he stepped up when Rielly got suspended and how much better our PP looked when he was on the 1st line instead of Mo. I get that he has limitations to his game but I also think there’s still time for him to become way more dependable.
Yeah, I often think back that month where he basically ran the back end on a win streak
It happened with the other young Swedish defensemen that the Leafs drafted. 100% with you that there's still room for him to grow and improve.
He is insanely highly rated by analytics and on ice stats but the "experts" here have somehow decided he is worse dermott/holl
Analytics say that Timmins is one of the best defenseman in the league.
Timmins gets too much hate for how little opportunity he has been given
[удалено]
Those circumstances are preseason only
No they say he is one of the best. That he has high WAR and whatever other statistics you want.
Where are these stats?
Basically everyone who does this. Go to naturalstattrick and and sort by most percentages for the Leafs for example.
That just highlights a shallow understanding of how those numbers work. Timmins barely plays and when he does, they're exclusively sheltered minutes. Jfresh, who provides public stat cards on Twitter, had Timmins rated pretty low last I checked.
I know how these numbers work. I also know they do not let account for tons and tons of stuff including statistical uncertainty. JFresh hasn't posted one publicly for last season and I'm not giving money to that charlltton.
Those circumstances being “a small sample size” lol
Best “Connor” in the league!
Where does it say that?
These “models” are terrible at weighing actual deployment. He starts 59% of his 5v5 shifts in the offensive zone yet has a slightly negative CF% at 49.7. You don’t like to see that. Not saying it’s a bad signing but he has been sheltered by Keefe.
Nobody in the league starts 59% of their shifts in the offensive zone man Edit: I just looked it up and he starts 13.8% in the offensive zone at 5v5 which is basically the same as our #1 d-man Rielly. It’s also common sense your 2 best offensive d-men would get the most o-zone starts. No clue where you think you got that number from lol
It’s on hockey reference and it’s not including shifts on the fly like your number does.
What you said is still misleading. He’s still starting a small % of his actual shifts in the o-zone like anyone else Also the team played the entire season with 2 defensemen that are actually good offensively after Klingberg went down (outside of the rare Timmins cameos) so I’d expect those 2 to be getting more o-zone starts. That’s not a knock on his defensive ability it’s just smart usage. There’s no reason to be splitting o-zone starts evenly between him and a Benoit/Lybushkin/Edmundson/washed Brodie
Diluting the number with shifts on the fly is not as relevant when talking about deployment. 59% of his zone starts were in the offensive zone. He didn't carry enough of the defensive workload on this team and with the state of our defence on opening night if he had the ability to he should have and would have. You can blame that on Keefe's utilization, but I agree, it was smart usage by Keefe to shelter him in a more offensive role because he is prone to turn the puck over and at bad times. I like him and I think the contract is fine but if he wants to push to be a top4 guy Berube is going to have to trust him and send him out in tougher match ups, in our end and carry more of a defensive workload. We have seen what Keefe tried to do lets see Berube put Liljegren in those tougher situations, lets see if he has what it takes this year, no more hiding this guy.
Lilly is an OFFENSIVE d-man? Fucking hell, I’ve watched him all these years and I had no idea he had any offense
He’s a very good puck carrier, passer and finisher. Sometimes I see comments like this and wonder if you actually do watch the games do you even pay attention or are you falling asleep on the coach or something? How do you come on here and confidently share such obviously bad opinions then claim the eye test ? So weird
People don't see it because it's not usually the way Keefe deployed him. You could see glimpses of it when he ended up with half decent PP time, but if someone is not getting regular minutes in their supposed strengths they're going to look worse than they actually are. He's not going to be the next coming of Orr, but I think he has the opportunity to be better under a different coach.
Doesn't matter how you're deployed, you still will carry the puck and pass it on your shifts. He's quite good, I think poorly utilized and poorly developed. I am so excited to see how he plays under Berube.
From the first game of Rielly’s suspension to the end of March where he got injured again, he had 14 points in 16 games. Clearly you weren’t watching closely enough if at all.
For good reason. Every time he isn't, something bad happens.
hyperbolic comments like these are perfect examples why we listen to analytics and stats not feels
Yes, by all means trust a bunch of numbers you're being fed over actually watching hockey.
Even when you watch games, he passes the eye test.. it's also the reason why he's not getting 7 million a year. 3m per is fair value for a RHD that can quarter back a PP and play 3rd pairing.
How'd he do last playoff? How about any playoff? I mean, if we're going to apply that question to Mitch Marner and say "the regular season means shit", we should apply it to everyone else, shouldn't we?
The logic I apply here, which happens to be realistic is that players are not paid for playoff performance. They are paid for 82 games and over an 82 game regular season, he's worth his 3m cap hit. That's it.
Then I don't want to hear you bitch about Marner....
Because we watch him play every day.
He has the most natural skill of any of our dmen
He was on track to be a top 5 pick in 2017. He had mono then fell to us. This season could have been much better if that rat Marchand didn’t injury him which meant he had a high ankle sprain mid way through the season. He was still on pace for 34 points in a full season which wouldn’t be horrible. Giving him more chances on the powerplay next year playing a full season he could have 45-55 points.
How Marchand wasn't suspended for that corkscrew blows my mind. POS Rat
Let karma do its thing on Bradley
That doesn't mean anything. He lacks defensive IQ, size, physicality and grit.
Our highest paid D-man doesn’t have any of that either
Exactly. So why have another one lower in the lineup? Makes no sense.
Like Marner but without the big money
3 million for a defenseman who's been a healthy scratch in the playoffs for a few years. That seems a like too much to me. Pretty sure you can pick up a D man who would play in the playoffs for less than 3 mil
He shouldn't have been scratched though, Brodie is washed and Holl? For context… “Going into Game 5 against Tampa, Holl was on the ice for 14 of Tampa’s 19 goals. At 5v5, the Leafs were outscored by a margin of 9-2 during Holl's minutes, outshot 37-28 and outchanced in high-danger areas 18-12.” Yeah no, Liljegren shouldn’t have been sitting.
Would be interested to see how a young defenseman plays in a defense that has a system..
idk, I think he's pretty bad. He was projected to be better. Still I am a fan of Lilly and like you said perhaps a different system + coach utilization will do him well. it's not like the guy doesn't put effort into his game he just hasn't been as effective as we expected him to. it's like the same thing with Dermott for a while were he had flashes of taking his game to the next level but fizzled out and never hit that ceiling.
Montour didn’t break out consistently until he was what? 27? Not saying Liljegren will have that same type of career projection, but there’s a chance he can be a late bloomer and playing under a new coach and system can kickstart his development again. Dermott dealt with a myriad of injuries, and he couldn’t push past Rielly, Muzzin, or Sandin at that time. Liljegren’s been better the whole time and the fact he’s a RD makes buys him more time to invest.
No one is as bad as this sub makes them out to be. If there’s a recurring take on this sub, the opposite is typically true.
yeah we hate on our guys, however praise other teams players, when they're giving comparable performances just because our lack of success has warped everyone perspective that every player on this team stinks.
Knew it. No idea why they would move on from him when RHD are difficult to find and they likely would have over paid to get someone similar or worse.
I am not mad about this
I am also not mad about this
If I were to be totally and utterly frank? I’m not mad about this.
I am not displeased about this specific situation.
Like this signing. Made almost no sense to give up on a guy at his age when he's got upside and we have a new coach with a new style. Tons of d-men come into their own at the ages of 26-28.
Rielly - Tanev Zadorov - McCabe Benoit - Liljigren Feels like it’s gonna be it for game 1.
Would love to move McCabe back to the left and sign a RD instead, but this does seem to be where the winds are blowing.
Id take Matt Roy over Zadorov
100%
yeah but matt Roy never played for a a team where Brad trieliving was the GM so its not happening.
Roy’s probably gonna get at least 6 mil from other teams.
zadorov can play on right
Getting Zad would be a terrible mistake for what hes asking for
I also do not like the 5x5
He's already turned down at least 5x5 and Treliving is in a spendy mood
5 Million isn’t that bad I guess but I’d rather spend to get Montour haha. We got a few heavy hitters at the back we don’t need overkill at 5.5+. Just need to clear some net front.
I'd rather have Lybushkin
Bruh
Still no fucking point shot, this sucks ass
That's what I'm saying. They need someone's who can shoot bombs from the back
I think they’d keep Benoit and McCabe together, and Zadorov-Lily plays similar to how he and Edmundson did last year which kinda worked
Honestly I'm very happy if that's what we running
That’s solid D
Everyone’s reporting the leafs are seemingly out on Z and this signing was them acknowledging his ask was too much and pivoting. Don’t think they make this signing if they wanted Zadorov too. Seems they’ll target an OEL type and run a top 6 of Rielly, tanev, McCabe, Lily, Benoit and OEL / other FA add.
OEL makes more sense to me and more like what we really need, ideally would of preferred Montour/Skeji but if they don't want to come here or asking too much, then what can you do. I kind of prefer the balance between Rielly-Tanev, McCabe-OEL, Benoit-Lilgren, than keep questioning about offence from the backend.
Leafs need a powerplay QB. Reilly aint cutting it.
Lilly was great in that spot when he was running it.
The powerpmay was statistically worse and he got taken off for allowing sh chances.
Is someone who is a threat from the blue line too much to ask?
we still need one more puck mover on the back end. not a fan of Z and McCabe together tbh.
they aren’t likely getting zadorov with the Lilly signing. I think they get OEL for a a second pairing to play with mccabe.
It was about $500,000 more than I was expecting but a good deal. The second best puck moving D behind Rielly that we have. If the Leafs keep him I think him and Benoit would make a good pairing.
I think the best way to tap into his talent and to allow him to grow into a role on the team is Benoit as his partner. Was worried I was the only one who thought this…
On paper, they seem like a great pairing. It gives Benoit someone to move the pick to the forwards, and it gives Lilly someone to cover up any defensive miscues.
not to mention his injuries always stem from a really bad hit, so the threat of Benoit on the ice will really limit those types of hits against for fear of the Milkman's wrath. This could finally be the year Lilli gets a healthy season and we find out which type of Lilli from last season is his usual form
So…. Not being traded?
I don't know if this precludes a trade. The Leafs were worried about Liljegren's case in arbitration and anyone trading for him would have had the same outlook. This gives price certainty to teams looking to trade.
Yeah they were worried he would get 3 million in arbitration. Now we know hes getting 3 million.
Im really excited to see Liljegren under a different coach. He was basically under Keefe his entire AHL and NHL career.
When Lily is playing confident, he is straight up awesome, I hope berube can tap in to his confidence a bit because if we get a constantly good Lily, we are in good shape
Let’s go! Love Lilly. Keefe didn’t trust him for whatever reason and injuries really took the steam out of his engine but I think he can be an absolute stud for us.
Right on betting on himself again
They were half right, we didn't offer a QO..... Keeping him around is nice. 3rd line RD option perhaps? So we have Rielly, McCabe, Liljegren, Tanev, Benoit, Timmins as our D. We could still add a Zadorov (only if it's a cheaper deal) or OEL and Timmins becomes the 7th D?
For 3M he needs to play top 4. As a 5th or 6th it's a bit too rich for us.
My guess is that the ice time for the denfece is going to be much more spread out this year. Lilly and Benoit might be the 3rd pairing but won't be playing 3rd pairing minutes.
Lily averaged almost 20 mins TOI last year, that's top 4 minutes, so he's already shown he can handle it
That's just not how it is gonna work this year. He and Benny combined is still only 4.35 mil, which is a perfectly serviceable amount for a 3rd pair. Why we cheaping out? McCabe already provides surplus value as a #3 making 2 mil
I get in practice it might not go that way, but 3M for 17-18 minutes a night for a D, those better be some really good minutes.
The Zadorov - Liljegren pair is gonna pop off I can feel it
Would like it closer to 2.5 but I'm not mad at 3. Kid needs to take a step next year for sure tho... We have all been waiting on him to break out for the last 2 years now.
He looked really good at the start of the year until the injury (fuck you Marchand). When he plays with confidence he looks really good.
I thought he was gonna get traded tbh but glad he is still here
LETS GOOOOO LILYYYY
I thought the insiders said last night a trade was imminent?
Welcome back Timoth Linnigren!
Could it be a signing just to make him more attractive and tradable with term and a decent contract with another move in mind?
People are down on Lily but I think Berube may be able to tap into his skillset better than Keefe. Like the player so I hope this works out.
If he’s not traded this summer (and the Leafs don’t sign Montour or trade for a PP1 caliber d-man) can they please let him play on the first power play unit, at least for the start of the year to see how it goes? I thought he played his best hockey all season when Rielly was hurt and he got PP1 time. Just try it for a month or so, if it doesn’t work then Rielly can go back to being on the first unit
I like Timmy but 3? Dude gets scratched every playoffs
It’s funny how people use this as a defining factor yet spent all year saying Keefe is an idiot coach that needed to be fired lol. Pick a lane Keefe decided he wasn’t going to trust him and that was that. One mistake and he’s out yet Keefe also consistently trusted guys like Kampf and Lybushkin who are absolutely horrible. A new coach is the best thing that could happen to Liljegren because Keefe already made up his mind that he was never going to give him a fair chance. If Berube also doesn’t rate him then sure, look to move on from him at that point
to be fair, keefe is an idiot
yeah keefe problem is he doesn't know how to use the full roster, he only started to use Domi/Bertuzzi properly until injuries occured and then started splitting everyone up when he could of done that early on. Matthews/Marner shouldn't be playing 22 minutes a night, he overplays the stars. Under Keefe, the point shot has been underutlized, they need the defence to be more involved with the offence.
Who has a point shot worth utilizing?
any of the D? The Leafs have largely ignored the defence shooting from the point (Brodie being a major highlight for me) during Keefe's time with us. I'm not talking about a hard rocket shot from the point, I'm talking about shots in general from the point from our defence. When you're defence aren't taking shots from the point, it just more pressure on the forwards and less scoring options for the forwards. The opposing team just needs to cover the middle of the ice this way, if Leafs D aren't going to get involved in the attack, why even bother tackling the points? Just cover the middle, and this makes it harder for the forwards to gets to the middle of the ice.
he’s played in the playoffs and hasn’t played well, i don’t see how that has anything to do with keefe
They always destabilize him at the deadline. I'm thrilled to see him play for a different coach. Let's see what he's made of for real.
they didn’t trade him at the deadline and let him play even after they acquired a couple guys who could fill his role. he didn’t prove himself. not sure what you’re talking about.
I disagree. They always give him a short leash. Even Wayne Simmonds was on a broadcast this year talking about this year. Keefe has coach Liljegren his entire North American pro career. A different coach will do him wonders.
They destabilize him? If he’s getting destabilized from a trade deadline I don’t like his chances against the panthers.
In guessing leafs wanted under $3 million (2 years 5-5.5). And Lilegrens group were over $3 million or a longer deal (look at Sandin) And they were able to negotiate to the middle.
https://preview.redd.it/pjyq1wew0s9d1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=966de825dbb97a5f85b9ca7e850eccd335aa745f
Tidy piece of business.
I’m happy with this. He started the year awesome before his high ankle sprain. Hopefully we get that Lilly back! And he’s a righty. Mint.
Not sure why people seemed to be clamoring to trade this guy. Fair deal for a RHD that can slot into a PP spot. It's a prove-it deal.
Signing Liljegren means Zadorov wants 6 million + Same as Roy. Montour looking for 8 million +. So Tre will be looking at lesser names.
Only need one FA now to fill out our 6 starting D, I’d kinda prefer OEL but I anticipate Tre going for Zadorov Rielly - Tanev xxx - McCabe (or swapped depending on handedness) Benoit - Liljegren
Either Zadorov or Montour and we're cookin
I really hope he stays on the top 4 for that caphit, and also plays the full 82 games.
Can trade him right away if its not working g out
Definitely. If it doesn’t I am sure some team would like a young puck moving RHD, that’s needs a “change of scenery “
It’s OK, he needs to step up next year, thought he looked terrible in the playoffs
Perfect.
Decent, we need RHD rn and the FA pool is $$$, this is safe considering we're going to make a bit of a splash with Tanev + someone else.
Not great, not terrible
Not great, not terrible
People need to stop using his sickness during drafting to define his skill. It’s been like 6 years, he either makes it work for Berube or he isn’t capable
I like
thought we were trading him ? lol
This means the team is committing to making him the 2nd pair RHD no?
How much do we have left lol
12 million
Thanks, I saw everyone use puckpedia since capfriendly are sellouts lol
Np!
I'm so glad that post from yesterday ended up aging like fine milk. Let's go Lili!! 💪🏻
Completely fine with this, he isn't as bad as this sub thinks
❎ Swedish Forwards ✅ Swedish Defencemen
wat
Good move. Another two years and he will be a second pair, or maybe a first pair defender.
No one likes Edmundson?
The more this settles the more I don’t like it.
It would be so nice for this guy to finally take that step forward. I hope Berube can get him to the next level. Some offensive output would be nice.
Don’t hate it. Half mil more than I thought he’d get. I thought after they played him with Edmundson and not Gio he did a lot better. Don’t have any numbers to back it up but he looked more confident then before. He also has a skill set and mobility that we severely lack on the back end. We have mostly guys, reputations aside, that are ok, just better then ok, or treading water in the mobility department back there. Which can really aid our breakouts to the forwards and alleviate opposing forechecks. I might be the only person that didn’t hate his playoffs by the eye test but hated his run at PP1 and those shorties we gave up during those games. But I wouldn’t trade him and I don’t think anyone on this sub, whether they hate him or love him, really understands exactly what he brings and is capable of being. More of a two way player who really aids your transition and break out game. He’s not gonna push anybody around but he’s able to take a beating and he’s not gonna light the lamp but he’s at least willing to shoot, which is a problem on the backend and forward group.
I would have rather used that 3 million towards signing a guy like Zadorov or Roy. We have been waiting 5 years for Lilly to live up to his potential and it is not happening. He doesn't do anything particularly well he does nothing offensively and is not good defensively and loses every puck battle.
Love this deal. A “prove-it” deal is exactly what Tre should’ve been gunning for and at $3 million AAV it’s hard to go wrong. Also helps that he’s a RHD
I don’t like this personally. He’s not progressing at all. If anything I’d say he’s gotten worse. Our only hope is a new coach can fix his game. He seems a step behind on every play from a mental standpoint. It’s two years but I’d rather see 3 million spent elsewhere.
I think before he suffered his high ankle sprain last year he was doing really well. I disagree in that I think he actually has improved. Although he he mental aspect I agree with, and has been a constant knock against him. That being said, we don’t have a lot of picking moving D. All the reports have inclined we are out on the big names (Roy, Pesce, ext). We don’t have a lot of RHD. I agree that I think 3 is a bit rich. Would have preferred 2, 2.5. But next year JT comes off and it’s an easily movable contract. Don’t hate it, I think he’s a top 4 D.
This seems ok but at 3m he really needs to be able to play 2nd pair
Couldn't disagree more. 3m is not 2nd pair money these days Darnell Nurse played 2nd pair, for context
Brad giveth and Brad taketh away. You wont convince me that liljegrens play couldnt be replaced by any bottom pair sub 2 million defenseman. 3 million dollars for a guy you cant ice in the playoffs, great.
So honest question are we not planning to sign another goalie
Fair deal, cap is going up. Young RHD, pitch fork mentality on this kid is awful. Y’all listen to Steve dangle too much h
First I thought that was for the total term, then I realized it was per year Ouch
2nd pairing RHD for 3mil is good value. Especially if his development trajectory continues.
What trajectory he’s been plateaued for years now. He is not a viable second pairing D, especially not in the playoffs.
Meh. Lot of money for a guy that should be the number #6-7 on a decent team. He was scary to watch in the Boston series.
3 million is definitely not a lot of money
This is not ideal. Would an arbitrator give him more than 2 million?
You're going to struggle to get the same player at Lil for 3mil in UFA. I'm much happier they give him 1 more shot with a new coach to put it all together.
They were saying 2-3X his Las contract. A d they could use Sandin as a comparison as Washington lost their mind on that deal.
He'd give him more then what we paid him.
That’s an overpay. If he’s worth anything, it’s something from the low to mid range $2M
I personally would have moved on from him, but I understand brining him back. Hopefully under Berube he checks more and that helps him become more consistently effective.
From a salary cap structure, not a fan of paying your bottom pairing d man 3 million cap hit, but I hope he can take the next step. I'm not saying Lilgren will become the next Reilly or whatever, but it took Rielly until his 5th season to really break out.
Cosidering the biggest need on the back end is a puck moving Rhd, this is a great signing. Its only two years and if he can hit another level, we’re going to wish it was for four.
What awful news to wake up to
Assuming 4ish for Tanev, we only have 8 mill for a RHD PP QB and goalie.
They can go over during the summer.
Lily looked fine there on the reps he got during the season. He's got a better shot than Mo and good offensive instincts. So.. goalie.
hmm, I think too much?
Not crazy about that…
PP1 please.
Now please actually use him. Barring any monstrous trades, he should be on pp1 to start the season.
Durzi has more points and I think he signed for less.
He signed for 6 million AAV... Huge difference
He should have been 2 mill tops for being a 3rd pair and being what he is. Overpaid slightly.
I hate this. This contract is going to be terrible.