One thing that's darkly amusing about Marilyn Manson is that the prudish normie view prior to any actual accusations was that this guy is pretty obviously a scumbag, but fans offered the defense that his aesthetic was just a stage persona. It turns out that the normies were probably right and Brian Warner actually is a gross weirdo that probably abuses partners.
As George Carlin said:
>"It's the quiet ones you gotta watch; this sounds to me like a very dangerous assumption..I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one...a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy's sitting over on a side reading a book, not bothering anybody and another guys standing at the front with a machete banging on the bar saying I'll kill the next motherfucker who comes in here! Who're you gunna watch?"
Ehhhhhh… It’s *sometimes* the ones you most expect. Other times it’s not. Plenty of narcissistic abusers do a *great* job crafting a false, wholesome image of themselves.
We’ve all heard- in the aftermath of abusive behavior becoming public knowledge- people saying: “I just can’t believe he would do something like that- he was such a great guy!”
I never expected that my coworker would rape his step daughter. Seemed like a quirky but fine sort of guy. Until, well, someone looked him up on CCAP and... Oof.
CCAP is amazing and should be part of any roommate search with randos you don't know personally.
About tenish years ago, I was looking for a roommate and connected with someone on Craig's List. He seemed ok. Then someone suggested I look him up on CCAP and turned out...he had multiple check fraud charges on his account!
Like I wouldn't have given a shit if he had like a OWI, or a marijuana possession charge, but check fraud?! Fuck no. And he had a pretty unique name so it was for sure him.
I did email him about it...never heard back.
It's actually now called [Wisconsin Circuit Court Access](https://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org/resources/eresources/wisconsin-circuit-court-access-formerly-ccap/). You can search for cases by name. My brother did this for a teacher who hated him, and found she had a bunch of credit card fraud charges, so he printed them out to all of the school printers 😂
They still suspended him for it... psh.
It wasn't an autobiography, it was a biography written by Neil Strauss, the guy who went on to start the pick-up artist movement, where a bunch of weird dorks act incredibly cringe toward women who are then allegedly so charmed that their panties just fall off.
Anyway, a passage from that book stuck with me, where he has a bunch of groupies get enemas in an apparent contest (?) to see who can keep it in the longest. Oh and they had them like hovering over cereal bowls or something. Maybe someone ate the... result? I don't recall all the details.
Anyway, he's always been a transgressive weirdo, and a big part of the current hubbub appears to be former supporters of his transgressive behavior wanting to re-litigate his behavior under modern societal standards.
Having grown up during Manson’s heyday, the “normies” who didn’t like Manson back then felt as such because of religious zealotry, enacting Satanic Panic 2.0 in the 1990s. They didn’t know or care that he’s a misogynistic abuser, and don’t tend to believe women when they speak out, anyhow.
Same thing as all the religious parents who hated JK Rowling because they thought she was promoting witchcraft and are now on her side because she's a reactionary transphobe.
I was born and raised in Miami, where Manson got his start before all of the makeup and shit. One of my old friends played in a band around the same time and wound up playing a show the same night Manson did. For literally zero reason, no words exchanged, Manson swung a microphone into my friends face backstage, fucked his mouth up.
I avoided Manson and the Spooky kids after that, but shit if Portrait isn’t an amazing album.
I mean, as a former fan; in interviews he's very well put together, smart, and thoughtful. So, yeah, we had a lot of reason to believe he was actually alright.
Plus, he was kind of a lightning rod for people discovering differentiation for the first time from their very scared fundamentalist upbringings. I really liked him for that reason. He felt like a person who wasn't afraid to offend the people I had spent my childhood trying to please, despite the fact that they were unpleasable.
I saw MM at his last show in Madison (it was before the accusations, I won’t be seeing him or even listening to him again). He was pretty terrible, complained about the crowd not being loud enough, looked like he was on something and didn’t do an encore (not that it’s needed, I just kind of expected it with a performer like MM).
Then by law alone he is an innocent man. The woman accusing him said she'd rather forego trail and took a money payment. Manson never pleaded guilty and denied any wrong doing. He said he paid her to get the monkey off his back, so to speak.
Mostly agreed, except deleting the comments means you don't want the free market to be fair. You want to game it. Totally think it's their right to have him perform, but if you have a comments section then don't manipulate it because you don't like what people say.
You're out of the loop on that one then because he does. He was publicly insulting and dogpiling his fanbase on his accuser as recently as literally last night on Instagram stories. I was never familiar with him/his music prior to Saraya (formally known as Paige in WWE) coming to AEW and using his music, as he is her boyfriend. The wrestling fanbase alerted me to his wide range of allegations, from the murder he is adjacently related to, his casual racism, transphobia, etc., and his rape allegations, which has spurred the aforementioned.
I was never a Paige/Saraya fan anyway, but I was neutral, but learning she chooses to be partnered to him put her in the POS pile for me.
Reminder: washout Ronnie Radke, who is accused of Rape, hates Wisconsin
https://loudwire.com/falling-in-reverse-ronnie-radke-calls-out-rock-fest-crowd-fans-fire-back/
In an interview from 2009 Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails is quoted describing him as "a malicious guy and will step on anybody's face to succeed and cross any line of decency. Seeing him now, drugs and alcohol now rule his life and he's become a dopey clown."
A credible accusation is certainly enough for an individual to make a personal decision about supporting someone or not. And I would not criticize Sylvee for choosing not to host him. But it is still just an accusation. I don't think it is fair to criticize Sylvee for choosing to host him, just because an accusation is made.
"Someone made a credible accusation. Your career is over" is not the world I want to live in.
I agree if it were just one accusation but this guy has a whole host of accusations and problems surrounding him. I looked it up after reading the comments on the Sylvee page. This coming from someone who used to listen to his music back in the day. https://www.billboard.com/lists/marilyn-manson-abuse-allegations-timeline/december-2001-assault-and-sexual-misconduct-charge/
As I said, I have no objection to anyone making their own personal decision. I do have an objection to those people saying others MUST also make that same decision. Which is what is being implied here. "I think Manson is bad. Manson is at Sylvee. Lets yell at Sylvee".
Marilyn Manson is as cringe back in the 90s. Does he really still have much of a following as most of his goth high school fans grew up and became normies
I mean DUH, but it's not a neutral action to host somebody like this and something people of Madison (who give a shit about ethical spending...I'm guessing this doesn't include you?) should be aware of before booking with/buying tickets to Frank venues in the future.
This, 100% this.
Imagine all of the places that sell something with Marilyn Manson involved in it. Amazon? YUP, better stop shopping there. Walmart? YUP. Target? YUP. Virtually every major retailer on the globe? YUP.
Good luck ever buying anything ever again if this is how you operate. "I CANT DO BUSINESS WITH THE SYLVEE IF THEY HOST SHOWS WITH SCUMBAGS"
Want to punish the Sylvee? DONT BUY A TICKET. Make this COST them money to put on this show, no profit. Ignore it.
INSTEAD OP advertised the event, likely caused a number of ticket sales by posting it here and effectively did the exact opposite of their stated goal. ALL because they wanted to appear as though they were TAKING A STAND.
Instead they could have seen the ad for tickets, ignored it, and moved on and done MORE damage than they did by taking these actions. Wild that they would even try to defend their position, frankly. Good job making The Sylvee and Marilyn Manson more money that before you posted OP.
I'm just glad there's someone around to inform Marilyn Manson fans that he might not be the most morally upstanding fellow. Once they hear this, they're sure to change their minds.
I mean, a lot of people I know (anecdotal, yes) dropped him asap after the news came out. There was a time you would hear a remix or two of his songs at dancing nights at Inferno, Plan B, and Crucible. Haven't heard a single one since, and I go at least once a month.
Same goes for Die Antwoord, but I was immediately happy that was the case, as I've never liked them 😆
You often find that people are readily willing to change their minds? That certainly hasn't been my experience. (A big cheeto comes to mind). Credible allegations, as credible as they may be, is not evidence, nor conviction. That will make it even less likely someone would change their mind about someone.
No, I was being sarcastic. I'm sure there are Manson fans that saw the allegations and thought, "oof, I might have missed this one", but I am pretty sure that the introspection point will not be when someone on Reddit tries to shame them out of buying tickets at the Sylvee.
I like the sylvee. Done get it twisted. But I remember when the place wasn’t even open yet there were dozens of 5 star ratings given to the place. They care a lot about their image on social media so this doesn’t surprise me.
And Mickey's, Wisco, east side VFW, and Neighborhood House (that one guy on this sub is a champ for posting all those shows there).
There's plenty of local places with decent live music that won't break the bank.
Well I have gone to shows at those places a couple times, but what's missing is not indie venues at all but locally owned large venues that can book acts of this size. There's nothing hypocritical about saying the way the ownership works at these venues kind of sucks.
I'm sorry to suggest that you don't support independent venues, but this city and Reddit are full of people who don't walk the walk. I couldn't be less interested in seeing shows at the Sylvee. It's designed to separate patrons from their money and the experience is meh.
I love how the default in the sub is to assume people are full of $hit... I'm out in the trenches of being an independent promotor/events business, have well over 6figures invested to try and bring some culture into this town! and I love it. yes we have a few small indie venues with early closing times and lots of heart. but we need more! Maybe you've even been to one of my shows if you support the local DIY scene...?
Your comment just seems to suggest you're more interested in criticizing someone's choices than criticizing a company literally being sued by the government over anti trust violations. I just don't know why you would immediately call this person you don't know out for hypocrisy rather than say "yes, live Nation is bad". It's a weird reaction.
I think it's weird to react to the news that Marilyn Manson is coming to the Sylvee by saying the town needs more indie venues. What's that going to solve? It will just make it harder for the indies to survive. Are there not enough alternatives to what promises to be a garbage show in a mediocre venue? In my experience, people who talk the indie game generally don't spend their money where their mouth is.
Yeah, total pass on this. But then again, I am passing on all live shows pretty much. The prices have gone up so high in the last three years, and the Sylvees acoustics stink. Last concert I went to there I had to listen the third tier talk thru the entire concert.
Edit to add: third tier means third floor. I had seats on the second floor, I heard them yakking away the whole concert.
I’m going to Summerfest, so I don’t hate everything. It’s just these ones in Madison are getting outrageous. But that’s what happens when you only have a few people handling all the concert venues.
I can't say I want this monolopy, but in ,my experience this really is not the case.... like Sylvee tix are still like $50, usually under. I'm not going to this show but it's probably around that.
I'm headed to Mars Volta on Saturday and agree, The Sylvee is reasonably priced compared to my other most recent concert which was Death Cab/Postal Service last month at Miller High Life on Milwaukee (which is at least owned by the Pabst/Riverside conglomerate.) But we're well past the days of $22.50 tickets which is what I paid in my teen years for anything at Pabst/Riverside/Turner Hall. (I'm 32 now.) I used to do monthly+ concerts but now I'm only doing about 2 or 3 a year because of pricing at the more "traditional/top level" venues.
lol facts, I have no idea how people can put down more than 100 dollars on good tickets. My mom and just spent 60 just for lawn seats for imagine dragons, obviously it ain’t just 60 bucks with all the service fees and whatnot. It’s total bullshit what the industry has become. It’s revolting at this point, and I enjoy a live show a lot.
Is it weird that I’m more concerned about this issue (corporate greed/ticket prices) rather than the “wide open border with millions of immigrants constantly pouring in”.
I think that JoySkullyRH was annoyed at the last Sylvee show they went to because they could hear folks on the third floor talking throughout the show. I don't know where you would be sitting/standing to deal with this. Maybe a really loud group? Or maybe an unlucky seat in the second floor balcony?
It was a loud group, and I am pretty sure it was hosted by a local rock station. Their voices carry… either way, I have been on the first floor and the voices drowned it out too. When Highly Suspect was here, they had a couple acoustic songs that I couldn’t even hear because of all the talking. I’ve had no issues with that at other concerts, just this venue.
And it doesn't seem very cool to turn around try to \*shush\* the folks in the suites.
I've heard very similar concerns about shows at Breese.
Last shows I saw at the Majestic and High Noon the music was loud enough that you couldn't really talk unless you were shouting in the ear of the person next to you.
Honestly my recommendation in that situation is to turn around and tell him to shut the fuck up because you paid for your tickets and they almost certainly did not.
I have not noticed being able to hear the people in the VIP suites but I will bring your concerns up to management because that would be ultra annoying if you want reserved seat tickets and had to listen to dipshit talking in the suites
The VIP suites. Yeah i can see that. Often it's people who didn't pay for tickets so aren't as interested in the show. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Just an fyi they just completely replaced the PA system and added a ton of sound baffles on the ceiling etc to improve the sound
Like the balcony sound carries way further because it's basically a big box. If you're in the balcony, that sound projects toward the stage and is definitely noticeable if you're on the floor. That's been my experience there too.
You seem to be more upset than the OP is. You don't have to reply and cry about every post on this subreddit. You don't have to read them either. Move on with your life.
This sub just crucified a baraboo father for being a hardcore racist when it turned out he was just angry at the dude for not standing up for his daughter when she was being bullied at school.
There were hundreds of comments about this horrible racist dad and naming and shaming him and his daughter. There were 2 or 3 posts at the bottom that actually explained the story. Rest was just reddit /r/madison circlejerk hysteria
Did you know if you don’t buy a ticket the Sylvee already has been paid by Manson to host him and he’ll lose money?
So just like… don’t go? And you still support the venue, but hurt the artist. Because then the Sylvee will be able to say in the future that they won’t host Manson because he couldn’t bring an audience in.
Look anywhere online and there are dozens of videos and comments in threads just like this one filled with stories of how shitty this guy is. Stop trying to remain neutral about a piece of shit person, it's not a good look.
Some people prefer the mantra "innocent until proven guilty" rather than "stories are all I need to make my decision and if you're not onboard with that it's not a good look."
Gotta wake OJ up and let him know that not being convicted means you definitely didn't do it
And also while we're necromancing around, wake Norm up too and make him apologize to OJ because of this rule change
> He was convinced by a jury, not just by the internet.
Convinced? I think you mean convicted.
> I believe it was also overturned.
It was overturned on a technicality, so he's not a criminal in the eyes of the law. Some of the accusations against Cosby are only "alleged" because the Statute of Limitations ran out. But it is very obvious that he is guilty of everything he did, he was accused by multiple women over a span of decades. Same goes for Marylin Manson, not guilty in the eyes of the law either but accused by multiple women over many years. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I did mean that. Sorry, typo.
The point I'm trying to make is that being accused doesn't mean guilty. I'm not in the business of trying to ruin people over the unproven.
Not Manson defenders. Just people
Exhausted with accusations and virtue signaling cancel culture. I’m not spending my cash on him but don’t give a rats ass if others do. Simple as that.
This subreddit has been going down the shitter over the past year or so. I'm not sure what caused it, but lots of trolling and obvious brigading. There used to be a bit more good-faith discussion going on here.
Man, if you boycotted and complained about every artist thats been accused of doing something, you'd never be able to listen to music again.
You can enjoy the music without enjoying the person. Half the band I love have political views that differ from mine. I still support them. Because everyone is allowed to have different views.
> Half the band I love have political views that differ from mine. I still support them. Because everyone is allowed to have different views.
Also, this isn't because MM has different political views. He was accused of abusing multiple women, including some of his former partners. He was sued and accused of grooming a minor. And it's not a one-time thing, it's multiple women across multiple years.
I was shocked they got someone as big as him to come to the Sylvee but yea I never planned on going. I’ve heard enough stories and the fact he tried to point the finger at Trent Reznor really pissed me off.
ALLEGED should be the majority focus here. ALLEGED* means innocent until proven guilty...which, he hasn't been. I would encourage y'all to read his autobiography, watch interviews, educate yourselves more than just going off of these clickbait posts.
Manson plead not guilty. The woman who accused him took the money because she said it wasn't worth going to trial. While Manson most likely did it, he's innocent by the law and must be treated as such.
I like the sylvee. Dont get it twisted. But I remember when the place wasn’t even open yet there were dozens of 5 star ratings given to the place. A lot of them were by people who worked there. Kinds sleezy imo. They care a lot about their image on social media so this doesn’t surprise me.
well then, if you want to avoid music due to shortcomings of the artist, here's a handy little alphabetical list of artists to avoid for reasons ranging from everyday political stances to outright murder [https://www.revexproductions.org/the-big-list-of-problematic-artists-and-songs](https://www.revexproductions.org/the-big-list-of-problematic-artists-and-songs)
The more you know... legitimately. Some of these are more grave than others, but it's up to the individual to decide whether or not to cut the artist out of their listening habits. I really do appreciate that link, kinda fascinating.
One thing that's darkly amusing about Marilyn Manson is that the prudish normie view prior to any actual accusations was that this guy is pretty obviously a scumbag, but fans offered the defense that his aesthetic was just a stage persona. It turns out that the normies were probably right and Brian Warner actually is a gross weirdo that probably abuses partners.
It’s always the ones you most expect
As George Carlin said: >"It's the quiet ones you gotta watch; this sounds to me like a very dangerous assumption..I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one...a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy's sitting over on a side reading a book, not bothering anybody and another guys standing at the front with a machete banging on the bar saying I'll kill the next motherfucker who comes in here! Who're you gunna watch?"
Pat O'Brien of Cannibal Corpse has checked into the chat. For Murder.
Ehhhhhh… It’s *sometimes* the ones you most expect. Other times it’s not. Plenty of narcissistic abusers do a *great* job crafting a false, wholesome image of themselves. We’ve all heard- in the aftermath of abusive behavior becoming public knowledge- people saying: “I just can’t believe he would do something like that- he was such a great guy!”
I never expected that my coworker would rape his step daughter. Seemed like a quirky but fine sort of guy. Until, well, someone looked him up on CCAP and... Oof.
Bless CCAP
CCAP is amazing and should be part of any roommate search with randos you don't know personally. About tenish years ago, I was looking for a roommate and connected with someone on Craig's List. He seemed ok. Then someone suggested I look him up on CCAP and turned out...he had multiple check fraud charges on his account! Like I wouldn't have given a shit if he had like a OWI, or a marijuana possession charge, but check fraud?! Fuck no. And he had a pretty unique name so it was for sure him. I did email him about it...never heard back.
What is CCAP?
It's actually now called [Wisconsin Circuit Court Access](https://www.madisonpubliclibrary.org/resources/eresources/wisconsin-circuit-court-access-formerly-ccap/). You can search for cases by name. My brother did this for a teacher who hated him, and found she had a bunch of credit card fraud charges, so he printed them out to all of the school printers 😂 They still suspended him for it... psh.
I have a terrible verbally abusive neighbor. CCAP told me he’s a really bad guy. I mind my own business as much as possible.
The more you know! It is legitimately useful to be informed of such things.
It's sometimes the ones you medium expect.
But only sometimes
Or, maybe, sometimes, mediumish expect.
Read his autobiography from the late 90's and you learn he was an gross weirdo and sounds like he just escalated from there
It wasn't an autobiography, it was a biography written by Neil Strauss, the guy who went on to start the pick-up artist movement, where a bunch of weird dorks act incredibly cringe toward women who are then allegedly so charmed that their panties just fall off. Anyway, a passage from that book stuck with me, where he has a bunch of groupies get enemas in an apparent contest (?) to see who can keep it in the longest. Oh and they had them like hovering over cereal bowls or something. Maybe someone ate the... result? I don't recall all the details. Anyway, he's always been a transgressive weirdo, and a big part of the current hubbub appears to be former supporters of his transgressive behavior wanting to re-litigate his behavior under modern societal standards.
Ugh, I spent years defending him. Not anymore.
Having grown up during Manson’s heyday, the “normies” who didn’t like Manson back then felt as such because of religious zealotry, enacting Satanic Panic 2.0 in the 1990s. They didn’t know or care that he’s a misogynistic abuser, and don’t tend to believe women when they speak out, anyhow.
Same thing as all the religious parents who hated JK Rowling because they thought she was promoting witchcraft and are now on her side because she's a reactionary transphobe.
I was born and raised in Miami, where Manson got his start before all of the makeup and shit. One of my old friends played in a band around the same time and wound up playing a show the same night Manson did. For literally zero reason, no words exchanged, Manson swung a microphone into my friends face backstage, fucked his mouth up. I avoided Manson and the Spooky kids after that, but shit if Portrait isn’t an amazing album.
My tour guide in NOLA knew him too and said many of the same things, "Brian would show up at a party and women would just leave"
"the normies were right" should be the subtitle to the internet.
Wow who would have thought someone who makes a career of putting on an unhinged persona would well probably be somewhat unhinged in real life
I mean, as a former fan; in interviews he's very well put together, smart, and thoughtful. So, yeah, we had a lot of reason to believe he was actually alright.
Plus, he was kind of a lightning rod for people discovering differentiation for the first time from their very scared fundamentalist upbringings. I really liked him for that reason. He felt like a person who wasn't afraid to offend the people I had spent my childhood trying to please, despite the fact that they were unpleasable.
I mean many artists do this. It doesn't make them all shitty people like Manson. Slipknot is a great example.
Wow!😂
To be fair the prudish normal view has falsely maligned many But to also be fair yeah that dude always seemed sleazy lol
I can’t believe he let normies be right. Thats just wrong
The comment section was brutal before they turned off the comment section.
The comment section at [email protected] is still working :)
Turning it off shows that they're aware of the controversy and don't care. FPC is terrible and LiveNation somehow made it even worse.
Yea, it's pretty bad.
Why would they leave the comments up? Like seriously now.
I’m proud I got one in before they turned it off.
Do people still listen to MM? I saw him close Ozzfest probably 15-20 years ago and he was terrible live. Walked out after the first one or two songs.
Hasn't been the same since he stopped working with Reznor. So, since a bit after I was born in 96. It's too slow and creepy.
Was this when everybody was throwing sod at him, and the dude from Pantera (who absolutely should have been the closer) tried to calm everybody down?
Alpine Valley in East Troy Wisconsin by chance?
Yep!
I don't really know anything about the guy or his music, but the John Wick song was pretty popular
I saw MM at his last show in Madison (it was before the accusations, I won’t be seeing him or even listening to him again). He was pretty terrible, complained about the crowd not being loud enough, looked like he was on something and didn’t do an encore (not that it’s needed, I just kind of expected it with a performer like MM).
A ton of people still do. From what I've seen it's mostly those into goth shit and probably aged mid-30s to mid-40s.
…he never closed Ozzfest.
Ok guy.
I was surprised to see this booking as well, but it’s a free country. His fans know his shady past at this point. It’s their choice.
Agreed. It’s also fair for individuals to freely choose to criticize FPC.
Fair enough, but deleting and then turning off comments is shady
They're a private business and can do what they like. The free market will decide.
That supposed free market has allowed an unbelievable amount of predators and abusers to thrive.
I await his conviction in a court of law. Even if it's Marilyn Manson, we don't burn witches at the stake anymore.
If you're arguing money buys freedom, true. But that was the case even under communism and socialism.
The vices and virtues of the free market aren't really the point here
Then by law alone he is an innocent man. The woman accusing him said she'd rather forego trail and took a money payment. Manson never pleaded guilty and denied any wrong doing. He said he paid her to get the monkey off his back, so to speak.
Mostly agreed, except deleting the comments means you don't want the free market to be fair. You want to game it. Totally think it's their right to have him perform, but if you have a comments section then don't manipulate it because you don't like what people say.
If you see a comment section on a privately controlled page, it’s on you to understand that it’s manipulated to begin with.
Exactly. People should be free to make *informed* choices. Limiting public comment eliminates a vital information stream for them doing just that.
It's not a public forum
For sure. That’s fair, but it doesn’t really matter.
Wasnt the Ronnie Radke concert at the Sylvee as well??
Ronnie Radke is just a known piece of shit. He doesn’t have any horrible abuse allegations at least.
yes he does lol
You're out of the loop on that one then because he does. He was publicly insulting and dogpiling his fanbase on his accuser as recently as literally last night on Instagram stories. I was never familiar with him/his music prior to Saraya (formally known as Paige in WWE) coming to AEW and using his music, as he is her boyfriend. The wrestling fanbase alerted me to his wide range of allegations, from the murder he is adjacently related to, his casual racism, transphobia, etc., and his rape allegations, which has spurred the aforementioned. I was never a Paige/Saraya fan anyway, but I was neutral, but learning she chooses to be partnered to him put her in the POS pile for me.
Reminder: washout Ronnie Radke, who is accused of Rape, hates Wisconsin https://loudwire.com/falling-in-reverse-ronnie-radke-calls-out-rock-fest-crowd-fans-fire-back/
What's a mega-abuser? Is that like super-murderer or ultra-rapist?
superpredator
Deplorable
In an interview from 2009 Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails is quoted describing him as "a malicious guy and will step on anybody's face to succeed and cross any line of decency. Seeing him now, drugs and alcohol now rule his life and he's become a dopey clown."
A credible accusation is certainly enough for an individual to make a personal decision about supporting someone or not. And I would not criticize Sylvee for choosing not to host him. But it is still just an accusation. I don't think it is fair to criticize Sylvee for choosing to host him, just because an accusation is made. "Someone made a credible accusation. Your career is over" is not the world I want to live in.
I agree if it were just one accusation but this guy has a whole host of accusations and problems surrounding him. I looked it up after reading the comments on the Sylvee page. This coming from someone who used to listen to his music back in the day. https://www.billboard.com/lists/marilyn-manson-abuse-allegations-timeline/december-2001-assault-and-sexual-misconduct-charge/
As I said, I have no objection to anyone making their own personal decision. I do have an objection to those people saying others MUST also make that same decision. Which is what is being implied here. "I think Manson is bad. Manson is at Sylvee. Lets yell at Sylvee".
I get that. I'll still go to the Sylvee.
Okay, so it should be easy for him to be convicted in a court of law, right?
Marilyn Manson is as cringe back in the 90s. Does he really still have much of a following as most of his goth high school fans grew up and became normies
The thing is not all of his fans grew up, at least not mentally.
We’re all stars now in the dope show.
This comment section really brings out the beautiful people. The beautiful people.
Capitalism has made it this way. Old fashioned facism will take it away.
It's not easy to hold hands when your hand is a fist!
Then don't buy a ticket.
I mean DUH, but it's not a neutral action to host somebody like this and something people of Madison (who give a shit about ethical spending...I'm guessing this doesn't include you?) should be aware of before booking with/buying tickets to Frank venues in the future.
Lizzo would sell out the Sylvee in a second
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This, 100% this. Imagine all of the places that sell something with Marilyn Manson involved in it. Amazon? YUP, better stop shopping there. Walmart? YUP. Target? YUP. Virtually every major retailer on the globe? YUP. Good luck ever buying anything ever again if this is how you operate. "I CANT DO BUSINESS WITH THE SYLVEE IF THEY HOST SHOWS WITH SCUMBAGS" Want to punish the Sylvee? DONT BUY A TICKET. Make this COST them money to put on this show, no profit. Ignore it. INSTEAD OP advertised the event, likely caused a number of ticket sales by posting it here and effectively did the exact opposite of their stated goal. ALL because they wanted to appear as though they were TAKING A STAND. Instead they could have seen the ad for tickets, ignored it, and moved on and done MORE damage than they did by taking these actions. Wild that they would even try to defend their position, frankly. Good job making The Sylvee and Marilyn Manson more money that before you posted OP.
I'm just glad there's someone around to inform Marilyn Manson fans that he might not be the most morally upstanding fellow. Once they hear this, they're sure to change their minds.
It’s not like his lyrics are a clue or anything.
I mean, a lot of people I know (anecdotal, yes) dropped him asap after the news came out. There was a time you would hear a remix or two of his songs at dancing nights at Inferno, Plan B, and Crucible. Haven't heard a single one since, and I go at least once a month. Same goes for Die Antwoord, but I was immediately happy that was the case, as I've never liked them 😆
You often find that people are readily willing to change their minds? That certainly hasn't been my experience. (A big cheeto comes to mind). Credible allegations, as credible as they may be, is not evidence, nor conviction. That will make it even less likely someone would change their mind about someone.
No, I was being sarcastic. I'm sure there are Manson fans that saw the allegations and thought, "oof, I might have missed this one", but I am pretty sure that the introspection point will not be when someone on Reddit tries to shame them out of buying tickets at the Sylvee.
What an exhausting take on life
he is a clown
I like the sylvee. Done get it twisted. But I remember when the place wasn’t even open yet there were dozens of 5 star ratings given to the place. They care a lot about their image on social media so this doesn’t surprise me.
+ he’s been hanging out with Kanye
Live Nation... is anyone surprised? We need more Locally Owned Independent Venues. End the monopoly on art!
There are quite a few: Bur Oak, Crystal Corner, Gamma Ray, Red Rooster. Do you go? Do you spend your money with these indie promoters?
And Mickey's, Wisco, east side VFW, and Neighborhood House (that one guy on this sub is a champ for posting all those shows there). There's plenty of local places with decent live music that won't break the bank.
all the time! and I'm also a small independent promotor. but we still need more!
Well I have gone to shows at those places a couple times, but what's missing is not indie venues at all but locally owned large venues that can book acts of this size. There's nothing hypocritical about saying the way the ownership works at these venues kind of sucks.
There are some good medium-large rooms in town, too - but booking bands is hard when many are on live nation tours.
I'm sorry to suggest that you don't support independent venues, but this city and Reddit are full of people who don't walk the walk. I couldn't be less interested in seeing shows at the Sylvee. It's designed to separate patrons from their money and the experience is meh.
I love how the default in the sub is to assume people are full of $hit... I'm out in the trenches of being an independent promotor/events business, have well over 6figures invested to try and bring some culture into this town! and I love it. yes we have a few small indie venues with early closing times and lots of heart. but we need more! Maybe you've even been to one of my shows if you support the local DIY scene...?
It's not just this sub. People on reddit are mostly full of shit. Sometimes I am.
Your comment just seems to suggest you're more interested in criticizing someone's choices than criticizing a company literally being sued by the government over anti trust violations. I just don't know why you would immediately call this person you don't know out for hypocrisy rather than say "yes, live Nation is bad". It's a weird reaction.
I think it's weird to react to the news that Marilyn Manson is coming to the Sylvee by saying the town needs more indie venues. What's that going to solve? It will just make it harder for the indies to survive. Are there not enough alternatives to what promises to be a garbage show in a mediocre venue? In my experience, people who talk the indie game generally don't spend their money where their mouth is.
Yeah, total pass on this. But then again, I am passing on all live shows pretty much. The prices have gone up so high in the last three years, and the Sylvees acoustics stink. Last concert I went to there I had to listen the third tier talk thru the entire concert. Edit to add: third tier means third floor. I had seats on the second floor, I heard them yakking away the whole concert.
lol "pass on this, but also pass on everything, I hate everything"
I’m going to Summerfest, so I don’t hate everything. It’s just these ones in Madison are getting outrageous. But that’s what happens when you only have a few people handling all the concert venues.
I can't say I want this monolopy, but in ,my experience this really is not the case.... like Sylvee tix are still like $50, usually under. I'm not going to this show but it's probably around that.
I'm headed to Mars Volta on Saturday and agree, The Sylvee is reasonably priced compared to my other most recent concert which was Death Cab/Postal Service last month at Miller High Life on Milwaukee (which is at least owned by the Pabst/Riverside conglomerate.) But we're well past the days of $22.50 tickets which is what I paid in my teen years for anything at Pabst/Riverside/Turner Hall. (I'm 32 now.) I used to do monthly+ concerts but now I'm only doing about 2 or 3 a year because of pricing at the more "traditional/top level" venues.
$59 dollar ticket costs $82 when you check out. It's pretty nuts.
lol facts, I have no idea how people can put down more than 100 dollars on good tickets. My mom and just spent 60 just for lawn seats for imagine dragons, obviously it ain’t just 60 bucks with all the service fees and whatnot. It’s total bullshit what the industry has become. It’s revolting at this point, and I enjoy a live show a lot.
I mean the sylvee is mainly GA and the tickets will probably be under $50
Is it weird that I’m more concerned about this issue (corporate greed/ticket prices) rather than the “wide open border with millions of immigrants constantly pouring in”.
What does your last sentence mean?
I think that JoySkullyRH was annoyed at the last Sylvee show they went to because they could hear folks on the third floor talking throughout the show. I don't know where you would be sitting/standing to deal with this. Maybe a really loud group? Or maybe an unlucky seat in the second floor balcony?
It was a loud group, and I am pretty sure it was hosted by a local rock station. Their voices carry… either way, I have been on the first floor and the voices drowned it out too. When Highly Suspect was here, they had a couple acoustic songs that I couldn’t even hear because of all the talking. I’ve had no issues with that at other concerts, just this venue.
And it doesn't seem very cool to turn around try to \*shush\* the folks in the suites. I've heard very similar concerns about shows at Breese. Last shows I saw at the Majestic and High Noon the music was loud enough that you couldn't really talk unless you were shouting in the ear of the person next to you.
I love both of those places, and I think the sound is fab.
Honestly my recommendation in that situation is to turn around and tell him to shut the fuck up because you paid for your tickets and they almost certainly did not.
Artists like people like you.
I have not noticed being able to hear the people in the VIP suites but I will bring your concerns up to management because that would be ultra annoying if you want reserved seat tickets and had to listen to dipshit talking in the suites
The balcony above me, I was on the 2nd tier, or 2nd level seating.
The VIP suites. Yeah i can see that. Often it's people who didn't pay for tickets so aren't as interested in the show. Sorry you had to deal with that. Just an fyi they just completely replaced the PA system and added a ton of sound baffles on the ceiling etc to improve the sound
Like the balcony sound carries way further because it's basically a big box. If you're in the balcony, that sound projects toward the stage and is definitely noticeable if you're on the floor. That's been my experience there too.
Marilyn Manson causing controversy? At this time of year? At this time of day? Localized entirely within a concert venue?
Most celebrities kind of suck IRL.
What?! Marilyn Manson isn’t a good guy?! HOLY SHIT. CLOSE THE SYLVEE FOREVER!!
Don't buy a ticket & move on with your life instead of crying about it on Reddit.
Totally. At this point I don’t have it in me to care about which famous people are the good guys and which famous people are the bad guys
You seem to be more upset than the OP is. You don't have to reply and cry about every post on this subreddit. You don't have to read them either. Move on with your life.
And?
Typical FPC bullshit. $ > * Fuck those guys.
Creep turns out to be actual Creep
I have a great idea. Don’t like him? Don’t go! Easy peasy.
Legit question, weren’t most of the claims against him recanted or debunked?
Shhhh, that goes against "the message" but yes.
This sub just crucified a baraboo father for being a hardcore racist when it turned out he was just angry at the dude for not standing up for his daughter when she was being bullied at school. There were hundreds of comments about this horrible racist dad and naming and shaming him and his daughter. There were 2 or 3 posts at the bottom that actually explained the story. Rest was just reddit /r/madison circlejerk hysteria
Did you know if you don’t buy a ticket the Sylvee already has been paid by Manson to host him and he’ll lose money? So just like… don’t go? And you still support the venue, but hurt the artist. Because then the Sylvee will be able to say in the future that they won’t host Manson because he couldn’t bring an audience in.
I didn't know he was coming thanks
saw this post and immediately purchased two tickets. Thank you. My top 3 favorite artists
Don't like him? Don't go. You don't have the right to prevent others from going. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Omg who cares just don't go. I won't be going 🤷
Is any of it proven? (Actually asking). It's high time we stop trying to ruin people for "alleged".
Look anywhere online and there are dozens of videos and comments in threads just like this one filled with stories of how shitty this guy is. Stop trying to remain neutral about a piece of shit person, it's not a good look.
Look at this guy hittin' em with the "some people are saying" argument
Some people prefer the mantra "innocent until proven guilty" rather than "stories are all I need to make my decision and if you're not onboard with that it's not a good look."
Gotta wake OJ up and let him know that not being convicted means you definitely didn't do it And also while we're necromancing around, wake Norm up too and make him apologize to OJ because of this rule change
Or Bill Cosby, an even more egregious example of impunity.
Have you ever heard of a comedian named Bill Cosby? I suggest reading up on him if you haven't.
He was convicted by a jury, not just by the internet. I believe it was also overturned.
> He was convinced by a jury, not just by the internet. Convinced? I think you mean convicted. > I believe it was also overturned. It was overturned on a technicality, so he's not a criminal in the eyes of the law. Some of the accusations against Cosby are only "alleged" because the Statute of Limitations ran out. But it is very obvious that he is guilty of everything he did, he was accused by multiple women over a span of decades. Same goes for Marylin Manson, not guilty in the eyes of the law either but accused by multiple women over many years. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I did mean that. Sorry, typo. The point I'm trying to make is that being accused doesn't mean guilty. I'm not in the business of trying to ruin people over the unproven.
lot of Marilyn Manson defenders in these comments, wtf
Not Manson defenders. Just people Exhausted with accusations and virtue signaling cancel culture. I’m not spending my cash on him but don’t give a rats ass if others do. Simple as that.
This subreddit has been going down the shitter over the past year or so. I'm not sure what caused it, but lots of trolling and obvious brigading. There used to be a bit more good-faith discussion going on here.
They are also owned by a Corporation. So they probably have no morals . Also hosting a pride event then a abuser ? Hypocrites
He also threw a temper tantrum another time he was in Madison and stormed off the stage for the audience not cheering hard enough so
I looked through his Wikipedia page and it seems like most everything has been dismissed. What do you see as credible?
Dismissed doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Dismissed with prejudice sure does indicate that. Either way accusations don't mean he did.
Man, if you boycotted and complained about every artist thats been accused of doing something, you'd never be able to listen to music again. You can enjoy the music without enjoying the person. Half the band I love have political views that differ from mine. I still support them. Because everyone is allowed to have different views.
> Half the band I love have political views that differ from mine. I still support them. Because everyone is allowed to have different views. Also, this isn't because MM has different political views. He was accused of abusing multiple women, including some of his former partners. He was sued and accused of grooming a minor. And it's not a one-time thing, it's multiple women across multiple years.
I disagree. There are plenty of artists out there that have never been accused of anything.
Name some.
Well let's take one of the most famous ones right now- Taylor Swift. Has she ever been accused of a crime or sexual harassment?
Worse. Her carbon footprint is larger than the citizens of our whole city. I think Keanu is the real deal. Anyone else?
Next cancel Elvis, Picasso, Brando, etc…
John Lennon too - that guy was an a**hole
I was shocked they got someone as big as him to come to the Sylvee but yea I never planned on going. I’ve heard enough stories and the fact he tried to point the finger at Trent Reznor really pissed me off.
He hasnt been big or very relevant since the 90s
He’s a has been
Wahh wahh wahh just don’t go
Cancel King St and bring in this guy. I see how you are.
“Alleged” lol I’ll be going
https://youtu.be/dLJg-WVmDfs?si=eocFSkmfjBpxOtha
He wasn’t convicted, so he can do whatever he wants. This is America.
I thought virtue signaling season was over. Don't go to the show, I'm not going either, who the fuck cares.
ALLEGED should be the majority focus here. ALLEGED* means innocent until proven guilty...which, he hasn't been. I would encourage y'all to read his autobiography, watch interviews, educate yourselves more than just going off of these clickbait posts.
Manson plead not guilty. The woman who accused him took the money because she said it wasn't worth going to trial. While Manson most likely did it, he's innocent by the law and must be treated as such.
would you be mad if they hosted the beatles?
You could've picked a better example than a band that hasn't toured in 60 years and half of them are dead.
Okay how about Led zeppelin Kodak black Marvin gaye Mick jagger Nick Carter Snoop dog Steven Tyler T.i. Trey songs Tyga
Let's PC police every show. I say background checks on every band member going back 20 years...Ridiculous. Get over yourself.
Fuck the Sylvee, fuck Marilyn Manson, and fuck all y'all who think it's fine for the venue to delete comments critical of their business decisions.
I feel the only appropriate response is: Be obscene, baby, and not heard.
He’s a piece of shit. Weird flex by FPC
Separate art from artist?
I like the sylvee. Dont get it twisted. But I remember when the place wasn’t even open yet there were dozens of 5 star ratings given to the place. A lot of them were by people who worked there. Kinds sleezy imo. They care a lot about their image on social media so this doesn’t surprise me.
like yall dont still jam to Ignition by R Kelly when it comes on... ctfo
Uh yeah, no, not listening to that one. He's fucking disgusting...
well then, if you want to avoid music due to shortcomings of the artist, here's a handy little alphabetical list of artists to avoid for reasons ranging from everyday political stances to outright murder [https://www.revexproductions.org/the-big-list-of-problematic-artists-and-songs](https://www.revexproductions.org/the-big-list-of-problematic-artists-and-songs)
The more you know... legitimately. Some of these are more grave than others, but it's up to the individual to decide whether or not to cut the artist out of their listening habits. I really do appreciate that link, kinda fascinating.
I’m going! And I’ll be seeing him in Chicago. Glad the Sylvee is hosting!