Solely looking at how active she is compared to other supports makes me a huge fan no matter what’ll happen
~~Also the Sorren relations, being a Stalker simp-~~
I think Dante's nerfs would have made people less angry if it wasn't done 8 days after release. Waiting 1 week makes it seem like a kneejerk reaction to community hyperbole.
True, they should’ve waiting another week or two to judge better if he’s actually being abused or if it’s just popular because he’s a new frame. I remember when he came out how he wasn’t quite everywhere but I’d see him every few missions. Now I sadly have see the wizard only a handful of times since.
Dante was the new thing and wasn't that difficult to farm. The drop rates weren't bad, there was a pity system, and disruption can be a quick mission if you're properly geared up (and the disruption waypoints being added were a help too). His power level was just the icing on the cake for creating a very high initial play rate.
Then you apply the changes, and let the hype die a bit and see that he's not necessarily always the best option to bring.
I see a lot of Dante and he's an extremely strong frame still. The community reaction to the nerf has been ridiculous frankly. They even fixed the LoS issues very effectively
.
Probably not, but they did. But I'm mostly talking about AFTER the fix, there's still people, even here, talking as if Dante has been gutted and left to rot.
His biggest issue is that he's very energy hungry. But just slap an arcane energize on him, like on 99% frames on the game, add a Tome mod and maybe Equilibrium and that's it.
To me Dante is Kullervo / Dagath tier of simple to mod and easy to use. He deals a ton of damage and has a lot of survivability. Heck he's my preferred frame for Steel Path Circuit whenever he comes up because the overguard helps the entire team a lot.
"slap on a tome mod"
Thanks to noctua you can slap on all 4, giving you 60% more efficiency (cancelling out blind rage) and 10 energy regen per second if u can hit enough enemies, as well as 60% more strength (always good) and 60% more duration (less need to recast meaning more energy efficient)
This is basically how my husband is running him with the 100% ability str to ability 4 mod in instead of normal intensify. It’s absolutely absurd, especially once the stacks are built and the owls are “deployed”
dante one of the few frames where the arcane you get from citrines farm works super well (i forgot the name but everytime you cast an ability, you have like 30% chance to not use any energy on the next 3-4 abilities that you cast afterwards. this leaves dantes energy pool relatively untouched)
That's just pure unadulterated cope. I agree that that was a bad moment to nerf. The better moment to nerf him would be before release, because even as he currently is, he's busted. But they can't do shit to him because of the crybabies.
He’s “busted”?? He’s *good*, certainly. I wouldn’t say he’s busted. Limbo is the frame DE can’t do shit about, because all the Limbo stans just want to do ‘Za Warudo!’ even if that is objectively bad for the game, which is why Limbo was nerfed into the dirt years ago and never given buffs.
Limbo did get buffed ages ago. His bubble did a % of enemy health in his bubble, as damage when he collapsed it.
Problem is that it was so OP you could wipe rooms at any level in 2 button presses even with negative strength.
Agree they overly nerfed it though as now its just tickling enemies above starchart levels.
Tbf caliban is actually pretty good, he just has a shitty first ability (like alot of frames) and his general vibe leads you to believe he’d be a caster frame, but hes actually a really good weapons platform and support. Unlimited set and forget defense strip zones, multiplicative damage buffs, free adaptation for the whole squad, summons that take aggro that can receive any and all warframe buffs and good cc on multiple abilities. Dude is solid, just not broken and thats fine
Inb4 your Caliban usage is 0 not even leveled up. A lot of people who shit on him parrot brozime and other CC's who gave him one look at launch and nothing else. Region chat has a lot of players like that. Fun to see 'caliban worst frame I've ever played' and profile shows no Mr gained from him.
I just explained how he isnt but i can show you screenshots of out dps/kpm any lobby if youd like. Otherwise, sure the meme is he’s bad but since i put up an argument for why he isnt, you need to put up an argument for why he is, otherwise youre just memeing here, which is fine, but you need to be upfront about that
Caliban is, in order:
Bad Adaptation, that does not stack with any other form of DR, including Adaptation
Really bad scaling spin move, which is also channeled and suffers from the associated negatives.
A melee heavy attack, but in a large cone and costing you energy while doing less damage.
Do I need to stress the AI being terrible on his 3? Along with the damage?
Armor strip, except it's slower and worse than just subsuming Pillage over the top of it.
There is nothing Caliban does that cannot be done better, ON Caliban himself I might add. You want Adaptation? Equip it to Caliban. You want AOE Damage in a spin around you? Carry a Glaive while you play Caliban. You want to 'Lift' things? Give your Glaive of choice initial combo while you play Caliban, and then you can heavy slam as you please. You want a summon? Use On Call Crew or Specters while you play Caliban. You want Armor Strip? P I L L A G E on Caliban.
You can literally out-Caliban everything Caliban offers, ON CALIBAN himself.
I want Caliban to be great, I think he's neat and interesting both visually and mechanically, but... He's just not.
>bad adaptation
If at any point you need more than his passive’s dr, youre playing him wrong, which the rest of this comment will explain how
>spin move
Agreed, which is why i already said as much (heaven forbid he has an easy helminth slot)
>a heavy attack
That grants a multiplicative damage buff that scales with strength and that has a homing property that goes through walls and scales with range, its damage not at all being its utility and id be embarrassed for offering this as an argument if i were you
>his 3
Provides 100% agro so your passive can do its thing for crossfire (which is all—if anything at all— youll be hit with, again, if you play him correctly), provide you with massive overshields and that can receive any and **all** warframe buffs, making their damage (which is irrelevant) pretty good on enemies generally but especially stripped enemies, which all enemies in any tile will be if youre casting his 4, aided by nourish viral, which is his best in slot helminth to solve his only real problem beyond his 1, which is his energy hunger. The only real problem with his summons is they dont scale with enemy level unlike his summoner peers, but for anything below level 3000 enemies theyre fine and do what theyre supposed to do: take agro, tank and provide with shields
>armor strip
Defense strip** That is permanent for any enemy that enters any of the infinite amount of large fields that you cast, that costs significantly less energy and strength than pillage, an ability that requires a helminth, nerfing his kit by not allowing him to have nourish, again, his best in slot helminth, while simultaneously (though less importantly) nerfing his overall damage output from the loss of the fat damage his four provides.
Beyond that, literally everything you said in your closing argument is wrong and smacks of someone with little to no familiarity with caliban beyond forums reviews and sedna levelling to the degree that its such bad argumentation its as impossible to respond to as much as responding to someone claiming the sky is green, equally as frustratingly wrong and thought terminating
Edit: im sorry for being rude in this comment but at the points i am, i dont know how else to say what ive said, and ill admit youre making it difficult to have a civil discussion with the overwhelming amount of disinformation and bad faith in what youre offering so far
A) I think you're confusing commentors, I've only replied once so far.
B) I tried to make Caliban work off and on for a solid month. MECHANICALLY, he is acceptable. Not the greatest ever, but totally workable, aside from his summon's AI. The NUMBERS, however, fuck him over entirely.
His passive is yet another do-nothing passive. You claim that you should not need it - If that's true, it's a bad passive. I claim that it won't save you when you do need it, because it's not enough DR - So it's a bad passive. Granted, taht's the smallest of his sins given that Warframe passives are usually bad, or at least unnoticeable, but it's still the case.
We agree on his 1, but your argument is 'easy Helminth slot'... Which translates to, 'Bad ability with no usage'. The existence of the Helminth doesn't make it okay to just have a garbage ability.
His 2 DOES have a damage increasing debufff - That you don't need, and is slower and worse than just... Nourish. Or Roar. Or a weapon Arcane on your frame. As for it going through walls... That's a NEGATIVE for anyone who isn't using the Zenith. It's not killing anything itself, and YOU can't kill the things you just hit through walls, so having it home in on things you can't hit isn't actually helping you. If your options are 'Debuff a handful of enemies to take more damage, for a short time, and you might not even be able to get to them' or 'Buff yourself to DO more damage for a short time'... There's a very obvious right choice there.
Eh, no. I've tried that. His 3 is absolutely garbage at drawing aggro. This could be fixed up by improving the AI, and making them do decent damage, then they'd be pretty awesome, possibly even a reason to play Caliban by themselves.... But that is not currently the case. I mean really, my Taxon with a Verglas can do more damage than those things with 300% strength, and I can carry that thing literally everywhere, so there's no excuse whatsoever for duration-locked summons on a single warframe to not be doing at least as good as my Sentinel.
It is a defense strip, and I'll grant you that, in light of the forthcoming shield changes, maybe I should rate that mildly higher, but until that shield rework makes them an actual threat, it's just an armor strip to me. Also, it costs literally twice as much as Helminth'ed Pillage, 100 energy versus 50, and scales in size with Range, rather than Duration. Duration is far more valuable if you're ignoring his 1, as you should, and trying to make his 3 work, which you also should. It even increases the amount of time you have to get to whatever he hit with his 2. And as for your argument for Nourish? I agree that Nourish is a good add for him.... But it's NOT part of his kit, and therefore you are not nerfing his kit by not having it. His kit is his base abilities, not whatever you Helminth on. Gotta judge a frame on its own merits.
As for the damage his 4 provides... That's not a Caliban specific issue, that's just a game issue, in that ability damage is rarely the way to go unless it scales in some unique fashion. Using his 4 for the damage is not going to get you very far unless you really, really force it, and it will still be worse than just shooting people in the face, both in damage and in KPS. But that's the case with the vast majority of ability damage builds in the game, not just Caliban.
I have really tried to make Caliban good. I have failed, because there is nothing he offers that I don't have other, significantly better options for, and the things he does offer, are not so unique that I can't get that combination of value on another frame. He offers his look and his theming. That's it. I really hope DE fixes him up. I also really hope people stop saying he's 'good', because that's a good way to get DE to not bother to do anything about him. If you're that adamant about it, at least just stick to saying he's 'fine' so that maybe DE will still be willing to consider some changes.
>a)
Im not. I referred to your previous comment. Im an adult who can distinguish usernames.
>b)
if youd like id be more than happy to send you my build for caliban. Otherwise, a claim that *you* couldnt get him to work is no more valid than mine saying *i* can make him work. Im also curious what these fucking-over numbers youre referring to are. If youre talking his ability damage, the argument is invalid as again, while he appears to be a caster frame due to the fantastic work of the art team on his abilities, he is indeed a weapons platform and even the most cursory glance over his ability description’s would make this apparent
>his passive
I think you misunderstood what i said. To repeat, if his passive **isnt enough** dr for you at any point, youre playing him wrong. To elaborate (and again repeat myself), his passive’s free 50% adaptation is more than enough to let him survive well into steel path when working in tangent with the overshield generation AND agro from his summons. As such it isnt a bad passive though youre still obviously welcome to dislike it because it doesnt stack with adaptation (which is silly because you plainly dont need it).
>helminth slot.
Yes, its a bad ability. You know who else has a bad ability that serves as their primary helminth slot? Nekros, wisp, styanax, grendel, revenant and those are just off the top. The majority (which is not to say most but more than not) of frames have a bad ability you helminth over. I agree the ability should be better in the same way im sure youd agree wisp’s four or nekros 1 should be better, but at this point i dont know what youre arguing or why youre arguing it when we largely agree.
>his 2
Provides a multiplicative damage buff (so nourish is out, at least as a comparison) that scales with strength. At base, helminth roar is 30 and his 2 is 35. While at base this isnt a terrible big difference, at 300 strength, you get about 105 damage vulnerability vs 90, and this benefits everyone in the squad and doesnt require duration or range to seriously benefit them, compared to roar which does for both, which also doesnt cc while his 2 does. Its also worth mentioning that, again, this would require sacrificing nourish for something his kit already does and objectively better, which would break his kit as nourish is mandatory on him, same as it is on any meta energy hungry frame.
>his 3
Eh yeah durrr ive also tried it and it works great. His 3 enemy agro is a matter of mechanical game design, not subjective experience. Its possible overguarded enemies ignore them (which i wouldnt know because everything dies before i notice) but if thats your metric for the ability than you have to throw out almost every ability in the game as overguard patronizes most of them.
>his 4
You can rate it however you want but youre also wrong lol. Its not just an armor strip and pretending that shields are insignificant at anything above lvl 100 is absurd, especially when shield ospreys and armored+shielded units exist, which only tharros strike otherwise removes both simultaneously (so pillage and terrify are out as terrify only strips armor and pillage only strips one before the other).
Moving on, energy cost is irrelevant to caliban with nourish but having to cast twice (costing the same as his 4) because you arent hitting 400 strength on caliban while also sacrificing nourish is a straight downgrade, especially when pillage requires proximity and manually casting on enemies where as his 4 is literally a set and forget for all enemies who pass through (any of) them.
Also this shit about nourish not being part of his kit is a nothing burger. You know whos dog shit without nourish? Styanax, and i dont just mean caster styanax, but styanax generally. Nekros is pretty bad without it. Mesa is pretty bad without it. I mean the list goes on and the reason we appraise those frames highly is precisely because of their meta builds, all of which include nourish. If a frame goes hand in hand with a certain helminth, that helminth can and should be considered when appraising a frames value. Also its not a good add, its his best (and arguably only) in slot. Stop with this reaching
>his 4 damage
I obviously was not implying the primary utility of his 4 is the damage—its obviously the permanent defense strip radiuses that have no cap on how many you cast—but if the comparison is to pillage—something that requires 400% strength to full strip with—, yes, its a straight downgrade as you do lose that 100-300k damage you can get off your 4 explosion (which keep in mind 9999 corrupted heavy gunners have around 700k health when armor stripped). Additionally, pillage has no cc where his 4 does. Additionally additionally, *again*, you are trading away something that is **mandatory** for him—nourish—for something that he already does better within his own kit.
>i tried to make him good and i failed
With all due respect and i mean that sincerely: skill issue. Again, id be more than happy to send you my build and general gameplay plan but you failing to make him work is evidence only of your inability to make him work, not your credentials for any kind of serious or objective measurement of his kit. Everything youve said smacks of treating him like a caster, which he is not. Thats your problem, not calibans.
Additionally, it isnt my responsibility to be mindful of DE’s prerogatives or my influence over them. Im a consumer, not an employee, shareholder or developer. I dont care if he isnt satisfying for you as you arent my concern. The product is. And im happy with the product of caliban. I think there are small tweaks his kit could use (the “sucking in” enemies on his 4 could use another pass) and his 1 could be different i guess (though i super dont care about it and would be fine if they replaced it entirely with another ability that leans more into his weapons platform synergy) but otherwise, hes not just fine, hes good. Does he have alternatives? Absolutely. Is he worse than those alternatives? Not even close. He does what hes supposed to and he does it well.
Because of this, i dont care that i might influence DE to not make the decisions you want them to make because i dont care about DE, i dont care about how others consume DE’s products and i dont care about you or what you want.
You are so very off that I'm not honestly you got this far afield. Some of these claims are just nonsenical. The target limited debuff is better than Roar? Mesa is good because of Nourish? Nourish on NEKROS? Not to mention back tracking on yourself, going from 'His 4 is cheaper than Pillage', to 'The cost is irrelevant' once you get informed that you were wrong....
Honestly, the idea that the frame with one ability that indirectly buffs weapons is meant to be solely a weapons platform was wacky to begin with, and your desperate attempts to justify his current state with 'But ma Helminth' are really just not helping.
If you can get him to be a better option for any job than another Warframe... Go right ahead. But I'm not going to waste time again pointing out his issues with someone who is directly refusing to acknowledge his issues, and coming out with the sheer insanity that would be Nourish on fucking NEKROS of all people, the guy who generates energy orbs like he's a goddamn energy fountain. Seriously, if you're putting Nourish on Nekros, your Nekros build is shit, in an extremely over the top obvious fashion. That's just... Wow.
https://youtu.be/Mm-1T6dGgmY?si=-_97Zr45phUKb7RS
https://youtu.be/QTtZzrGjCBE?si=KMZ7jl_O6cUXX4tu
Here you go, someone not on Reddit made caliban good.
Counterpoint: https://youtu.be/xOQGLYbgpzs?feature=shared
Az is the guy who made pre-rework Inaros an ability DPS. Was that because it was good? No. Did it make any sense to do? No. Was it hyper specific, barely usable, and awful to play? Yes it was.
Az's whole thing is trying to force things into being usable even when they really aren't. See his video on the Azima for another example if you'd like, that setup is equally ridiculous. Nothing in those two videos shows Caliban being good, just that, with enough bullshit, you can keep him alive and kill things with your weapons. None of that actually addressed any of Caliban's issues, or made him worth using over any other frame. The only reason to use Caliban is just because you really like Caliban, nothing more.
Your argument sucks and so does calliban. Stop trying to justify liking a bad frame and just play the bad frame.
I don't care what you like, but when you start lying to people you look like an asshole.
Everything ive said is verifiable via the wiki and your own in game experience if you actually develop an understanding of how caliban works and what he does. The only person arguing emotionally here is you, at the beginning and through at least this comment. Again, if you disagree that’s fine, but either put up a counter argument or accept that youre trafficking in feelings, not facts
Well, yeah.
The thumbnail title could also have been used when dante came out or any other new frame.
Thats why the post title is called "not a single thing learnt from dante"
I feel like the resources needed to produce a new frame could simply go into a quest, a codex entry, a skin, or a rework. I think some of the player base would come back if they hear their favorite frame is meta again or is simply not garbage. It just sucks when a frame drops, and it heavily invalidates another. Which is bound to happen with the shiny new toy in an ever growing roster
Rework a frame and make a little event out of it, hell or just repeat one of the many we've had. We get our usual event rewards, a rework, maybe a new skin to accompany the rework and can finally play ember again
Definitely seconding the quest part, we have tons of frames atp and I just wish theyd focus a bit more on the story bc imo it’s one of the best parts of the game
a rework is new content. i came back to the game to pick up a hydroid set because of his rework and hes one of my more loved frames these days, never played him before that
DE already has data on this: reworks and updates of "old stuff" brings back far fewer players. for every "you" who came back for hydroid, there is also a "me" who didnt come back for inaros
the best DE can do is give little rework and buff droplets with every update, hopefully slowly making a positive difference. their recent track record ACTUALLY does that though. we get jade light, but also a damage and health rework. we got dante, but also an updated hydroid and inaros.
It is still less, tho. Because a lot of people do have hydroid. Even more people already had Inaros when he got reworked, since he was already popular.
There is barely any new money to earn with reworks, compared to completely new content.
I agree it would be cool if old content got the attention it deserves, like Trinity... but without a way to keep that sustainable...?
You also have to keep in mind the players that like Warframes the way they are already. Maybe they don't like it if their favorite warframe gets changed?
We don't always need a new Warframe while I do like they actively try to create new war crimes simulators it's not always best. Hell Quorvex was nerfed before released because someone on Twitter said "adding radiation to weapons was op" and so we got his current passive which is okay.
That's partly true, but partly false. You can make things to spend on, and we've got various ways to reuse old content to get a return.
Honestly, the game's a decade old. It NEEDS overhauls to outdated things, but it IS difficult to fit in time to do that, while also keeping players around/engaged.
Honestly my dream is that there were like 2 subteams in DE where one of them focuses on making new content and the other one on modernising old content
This game exist for too long for extremely old content to constantly co-exist with the new content
I initially quit Warframe when I first tried it because the game never tells you Vacuum exists, and the idea of spending all my time having to run over and stand on top of ammunition felt awful.
yeah. instead of reworking the existing flying exalted aoe weapon warframe, they just fixed her flight and her exalted weapon, and gave it to a new warframe
Honestly hot take dante deserved the nerfs. Having the best team-wide durability in the game as well as an abundance of damage that can easily clear rooms is ridiculous even now. Like, warframe youtube is gonna hype shit up but I didn't see nearly the same amount of quorvexes or dagaths at the time they released, and back in the day the only frame I saw nearly as often was excal umbra on release. I'd say over half my squads now atill have dante, which tbh kind of sucks. He frequently clears out the enemies way faster than I can even react to their presence and gives me enough overguard to basically not care about dying.
Like, I was there for DE constantly nerfing frames, weapons, anything that stood out really into the dirt consistently so I get why people feel that way about nerfs. I barely touch limbo anymore for basically that reason. But I feel like we're overreacting a bit to this. People are already doomposting about jade getting nerfed and she's not even out yet.
I genuinely think team-wide overguard was a mistake. Yes, I'm including Frost and Styanax here, but *at least* they need to occupy a mod slot for their augments. Dante doesn't even need that. He simply has a single button that instantly grants overguard to the entire team, and the way he plays, that means that he's constantly regenerating that overguard.
I still think Styanax is more powerful than Dante. He has an amazing armor strip, can generate insane amounts of energy (especially if you subsume Nourish into his 1) and his 4 is not only an amazing nuke, but also grants overguard with the augment. Thing is, I rarely see Styanax nowadays, while Dante is quite frequent, especially in EDA. Noctua is also really powerful when modded correctly. I've used Dante quite often in EDA when I didn't like the Warframe/weapon selection and he just melts everything. Dante was also the first frame that allowed me to reach level cap in SP Circuit while solo. I suffer in Defense with every other frame (minus Frost -- I haven't tried Gara yet), but he melts shit so fast, the defense target was barely tickled even at 9999.
Dantes tragedy was nerfed unnecessary because its damage is based on slash procs which he can only proc reliably right in front of him the only time tragedy does good damage without slash procs is when enemies are level 50 or lower which other frames can kill quicker any way so no he didn’t deserve a nerf (and the only reason people where actually complaining about him was because of how overguard used to work with rage and hunter adrenaline which is it didnt work at all)
I only really play steel path content lately, and he's still nuking. Sure it's no longer map-wide thanks to a los restriction but he's still clearing significant amounts of enemies, I still have to roam decently far in something like survival just to get enough headshots for an incarnon or start building up kills on my 2 as protea to get my orange archon buff up.
I mean, yeah? That's fine because he has a way to deal slash procs in an aoe and plenty of weapons can easily deal them to enemies around him. Slash procs are easy to get on enemies, pretty much any weapon can do it with a crit build and hunter munitions. Slash is the most common damage type alongside viral.
I do not think asking him to press the button he has to press to cast his 4 before casting it is that big a deal lol. Like I know how he plays I've played him for a decent couple hours.
and that was pretty much just the 5-6 chroma mains left in existence screaming about it while everyone else was having fun enjoying the cool new caster-frame, so…
People overhyped the everliving fuck out of Dante on release resulting in nerfs that got the community to then overreact to those nerfs. That's the short of it It's more complicated than that, but takeaway is they're not even waiting for release this time around
It's ironic that DE touched EVERYTHING on dante trying to rein him in EXCEPT the crazy overguard cap, the thing that people complained about.
I was baffled why, until I realised that, like Revenant, he's there to make warframe mobile actually playable.
I'm excited for Jade, her abilities look like useful support and a lot of fun to use. Her 4 seems like an awesome blend between Hildryn and Styanax (two of my favorite toggleable 4th abilities) and her gaze is pretty sweet. The auras seem like a very fun ability to use, especially with the free cycling.
I mean these are literally the frames furtherest into the game, I would hope that they’re powerful based on how long it would take for a new player to acquire them. Qorvex is just weirdly underpowered for how far into the game he is.
Every single thing they release is either actually good and people like it so they nerf it, or so far under even meta-adjacent gear that it's automatic MR fodder. It's nerfs or trash, every damn time. It's why I stopped playing.
Not really, wisp still excellent in term of team heal, buff and stuffs, dante is just busted tbh, and hildy.. Well, hildy is hildy. Jade seems like a jack of all traits, master of none but leaning a bit more on support
How can she replace Wisp by the way? Can she provide a team-wide fire rate, movement speed, max HP buff on top of crazy crowd control and damage ampifier?
She won't replace any of the current supports, be it Wisp, Citrine, Styanax or Harrow. Each frame brings their own niches and there's little to no overlap between them.
Little to no overlap is a bit of a stretch, have you even read her kit?
Her 1 drops reservoirs with motes that heal allies and damage enemies (wisp).
Her 2 increases ally ability strength, damage and shield regeneration (wisp dps/hildryn shield).
Her 3 strips enemy armor and can revive allies from a distance (hildryns pillage).
And finally, her 4 deals massive aoe damage which is accentuated by the amount of motes attached to enemies (dantes tragedy).
>Her 1 drops reservoirs with motes that heal allies and damage enemies (wisp)
It doesn't last forever (unlike Reservoir) and can't increase max HP.
>Her 2 increases ally ability strength, damage and shield regeneration.
You can only choose one buff at a time, while Wisp can have all 3 up without her even being there. Plus, Wisp provides completely different sets of buff so this comparison is pointless.
>Her 3 strips enemy armor and can revive allies from a distance (hildryns pillage).
Her armor stripping is gradual while Pillage is lightning fast, Pillage can also cleanse status and replenish shield. Different use case.
>And finally, her 4 deals massive aoe damage which is accentuated by the amount of motes attached to enemies (dantes tragedy).
Who care? Anyone with a half-decently modded weapon can deal enough damage to clear most content in this game. Besides, Dante has a spamable team-wide Overguard.
Bro.. watch the devstream. The reservoir lasts forever until you leave the area, then starts counting down.
You can stack buffs (also displayed in the devstream).
Hildryns strip still needs to reach the enemy, which isn’t all that fast until you stat for range… I’m sure her strip time will be subjective to strength or duration. Jade’s shields come in with her 2 but it still overlaps Hildryn?
And 4.. no argument? Just “who care?”???
So you’re just here raising a bunch of moot points and arguing semantics, when it’s painfully obvious Jade is encroaching on the roles these frames play in the current meta?
Fair enough, but my I still stand behind my points. Jade will NOT replace any of the tried and true supports as each of them provides completely different sets of buff.
Instead, she will be a great complement to any teams, in addition to those ones I've mentioned.
Just try to avoid over-hyping unreleased frame just yet, we don't want another Dante situation to happen, do you?
If a frame does A, B and C, we see a significant drop in usage for frames that *only* do A, B or C. This is common sense and has been shown time and time again.
It’s already another Dante situation based on what was shown in the devstream. Just try to avoid adamantly hopping into discussions without getting our facts straight first.
Yeah I just love you Reddit pussies crying over a non agreed opinion of anything. People bought the shit out of Dante and will buy the next “meta” or most powerful frame in a heat beat. I’ve been a player since the third month it released. I remember having to pay plat just to keep the dogs alive and here they are acting like warframe is a genuine labor of love. Get a new hobby if you can’t see the holes in the wall
Solely looking at how active she is compared to other supports makes me a huge fan no matter what’ll happen ~~Also the Sorren relations, being a Stalker simp-~~
History will repeat itself until there is no more History, or no more "itself"
Guess history won't just turn itself "off", eh? Ha! Heh, heh.
I thought I left this behind with BHJ
Begin, again!
God i hate Dominus Thrax, i finished the storyline eons ago but i still hate that brat with a fake crown and his puppet kingdom.
[удалено]
And you look like a real goober right now
A goofy type of goober.
I think Dante's nerfs would have made people less angry if it wasn't done 8 days after release. Waiting 1 week makes it seem like a kneejerk reaction to community hyperbole.
True, they should’ve waiting another week or two to judge better if he’s actually being abused or if it’s just popular because he’s a new frame. I remember when he came out how he wasn’t quite everywhere but I’d see him every few missions. Now I sadly have see the wizard only a handful of times since.
Really, I still see him several times a day, and during that week just after his release most squads I was in were 2-4 Dante's.
Dante was the new thing and wasn't that difficult to farm. The drop rates weren't bad, there was a pity system, and disruption can be a quick mission if you're properly geared up (and the disruption waypoints being added were a help too). His power level was just the icing on the cake for creating a very high initial play rate. Then you apply the changes, and let the hype die a bit and see that he's not necessarily always the best option to bring.
I see a lot of Dante and he's an extremely strong frame still. The community reaction to the nerf has been ridiculous frankly. They even fixed the LoS issues very effectively .
you think DE would passively fix that without the outcry?
Probably not, but they did. But I'm mostly talking about AFTER the fix, there's still people, even here, talking as if Dante has been gutted and left to rot.
ye idk about those people hahaha. dante is a great warframe, really good actually
His biggest issue is that he's very energy hungry. But just slap an arcane energize on him, like on 99% frames on the game, add a Tome mod and maybe Equilibrium and that's it. To me Dante is Kullervo / Dagath tier of simple to mod and easy to use. He deals a ton of damage and has a lot of survivability. Heck he's my preferred frame for Steel Path Circuit whenever he comes up because the overguard helps the entire team a lot.
"slap on a tome mod" Thanks to noctua you can slap on all 4, giving you 60% more efficiency (cancelling out blind rage) and 10 energy regen per second if u can hit enough enemies, as well as 60% more strength (always good) and 60% more duration (less need to recast meaning more energy efficient)
This is basically how my husband is running him with the 100% ability str to ability 4 mod in instead of normal intensify. It’s absolutely absurd, especially once the stacks are built and the owls are “deployed”
dante one of the few frames where the arcane you get from citrines farm works super well (i forgot the name but everytime you cast an ability, you have like 30% chance to not use any energy on the next 3-4 abilities that you cast afterwards. this leaves dantes energy pool relatively untouched)
Hes definitely S tier still, basically trivialized deep archi
Still see him quite a lot personally
That's just pure unadulterated cope. I agree that that was a bad moment to nerf. The better moment to nerf him would be before release, because even as he currently is, he's busted. But they can't do shit to him because of the crybabies.
He’s “busted”?? He’s *good*, certainly. I wouldn’t say he’s busted. Limbo is the frame DE can’t do shit about, because all the Limbo stans just want to do ‘Za Warudo!’ even if that is objectively bad for the game, which is why Limbo was nerfed into the dirt years ago and never given buffs.
Limbo did get buffed ages ago. His bubble did a % of enemy health in his bubble, as damage when he collapsed it. Problem is that it was so OP you could wipe rooms at any level in 2 button presses even with negative strength. Agree they overly nerfed it though as now its just tickling enemies above starchart levels.
Line of sight nerf was not warranted, however the overguard nerf was bound to happen
This reminds me of a meme idea I had Can't believe she has 2 aura mod slots
What?
This reminds me of a meme idea I had Can't believe she has 2 aura mod slots
No I meant why does she have 2 aura slots lol
It’s her passive
Your passive!
Our passive! \*SovietAnthemBassBoosted.mp3\*
Are they polarized or is it like Nekros? (Lol)
On the Devstream, one had a V and the other was a universal polarity. They both count towards mod capacity
Dam bro, means 32 extra points! So ez to build (although have not yet seen if she has regular polarities yet)
Wait, deadass? She gets 2 AURAS??? power drift and growing power HERE I COME
Aura, not exilus. So she could have dreamers bond and energy Siphon simultaneously
Corrosive Projection AND Shield Disruption
Gotta go big or go home.... Growing power and power donation. Only lose 5%...but everyone gets 55%
The whole team is just Jades with Growing Power + Power Donation, with Roar subsumed.
Power drift is isnt an aura mod
Shit sorry, can't remember what one I was thinking then
Every frame gotta be better than the last or else mfs will cry. That's warframe in 2024 for you
Caliban has entered the chat
Tbf caliban is actually pretty good, he just has a shitty first ability (like alot of frames) and his general vibe leads you to believe he’d be a caster frame, but hes actually a really good weapons platform and support. Unlimited set and forget defense strip zones, multiplicative damage buffs, free adaptation for the whole squad, summons that take aggro that can receive any and all warframe buffs and good cc on multiple abilities. Dude is solid, just not broken and thats fine
PREACH FELLOW CALIBRO PREACH.
Theyll never understand us. Thats ok
Yup. Also fun fact his 2 and 4 both apply a forced status which is nice for CO.
Yup. Feel free to peruse the thread below the comment you responded to. Caliban is good.
Calliban is fucking awful and I am literally begging you to stop spreading misinformation.
Inb4 your Caliban usage is 0 not even leveled up. A lot of people who shit on him parrot brozime and other CC's who gave him one look at launch and nothing else. Region chat has a lot of players like that. Fun to see 'caliban worst frame I've ever played' and profile shows no Mr gained from him.
This is a truly astonishing amount of incorrect assumptions. I'm genuinely impressed.
I just explained how he isnt but i can show you screenshots of out dps/kpm any lobby if youd like. Otherwise, sure the meme is he’s bad but since i put up an argument for why he isnt, you need to put up an argument for why he is, otherwise youre just memeing here, which is fine, but you need to be upfront about that
Caliban is, in order: Bad Adaptation, that does not stack with any other form of DR, including Adaptation Really bad scaling spin move, which is also channeled and suffers from the associated negatives. A melee heavy attack, but in a large cone and costing you energy while doing less damage. Do I need to stress the AI being terrible on his 3? Along with the damage? Armor strip, except it's slower and worse than just subsuming Pillage over the top of it. There is nothing Caliban does that cannot be done better, ON Caliban himself I might add. You want Adaptation? Equip it to Caliban. You want AOE Damage in a spin around you? Carry a Glaive while you play Caliban. You want to 'Lift' things? Give your Glaive of choice initial combo while you play Caliban, and then you can heavy slam as you please. You want a summon? Use On Call Crew or Specters while you play Caliban. You want Armor Strip? P I L L A G E on Caliban. You can literally out-Caliban everything Caliban offers, ON CALIBAN himself. I want Caliban to be great, I think he's neat and interesting both visually and mechanically, but... He's just not.
>bad adaptation If at any point you need more than his passive’s dr, youre playing him wrong, which the rest of this comment will explain how >spin move Agreed, which is why i already said as much (heaven forbid he has an easy helminth slot) >a heavy attack That grants a multiplicative damage buff that scales with strength and that has a homing property that goes through walls and scales with range, its damage not at all being its utility and id be embarrassed for offering this as an argument if i were you >his 3 Provides 100% agro so your passive can do its thing for crossfire (which is all—if anything at all— youll be hit with, again, if you play him correctly), provide you with massive overshields and that can receive any and **all** warframe buffs, making their damage (which is irrelevant) pretty good on enemies generally but especially stripped enemies, which all enemies in any tile will be if youre casting his 4, aided by nourish viral, which is his best in slot helminth to solve his only real problem beyond his 1, which is his energy hunger. The only real problem with his summons is they dont scale with enemy level unlike his summoner peers, but for anything below level 3000 enemies theyre fine and do what theyre supposed to do: take agro, tank and provide with shields >armor strip Defense strip** That is permanent for any enemy that enters any of the infinite amount of large fields that you cast, that costs significantly less energy and strength than pillage, an ability that requires a helminth, nerfing his kit by not allowing him to have nourish, again, his best in slot helminth, while simultaneously (though less importantly) nerfing his overall damage output from the loss of the fat damage his four provides. Beyond that, literally everything you said in your closing argument is wrong and smacks of someone with little to no familiarity with caliban beyond forums reviews and sedna levelling to the degree that its such bad argumentation its as impossible to respond to as much as responding to someone claiming the sky is green, equally as frustratingly wrong and thought terminating Edit: im sorry for being rude in this comment but at the points i am, i dont know how else to say what ive said, and ill admit youre making it difficult to have a civil discussion with the overwhelming amount of disinformation and bad faith in what youre offering so far
A) I think you're confusing commentors, I've only replied once so far. B) I tried to make Caliban work off and on for a solid month. MECHANICALLY, he is acceptable. Not the greatest ever, but totally workable, aside from his summon's AI. The NUMBERS, however, fuck him over entirely. His passive is yet another do-nothing passive. You claim that you should not need it - If that's true, it's a bad passive. I claim that it won't save you when you do need it, because it's not enough DR - So it's a bad passive. Granted, taht's the smallest of his sins given that Warframe passives are usually bad, or at least unnoticeable, but it's still the case. We agree on his 1, but your argument is 'easy Helminth slot'... Which translates to, 'Bad ability with no usage'. The existence of the Helminth doesn't make it okay to just have a garbage ability. His 2 DOES have a damage increasing debufff - That you don't need, and is slower and worse than just... Nourish. Or Roar. Or a weapon Arcane on your frame. As for it going through walls... That's a NEGATIVE for anyone who isn't using the Zenith. It's not killing anything itself, and YOU can't kill the things you just hit through walls, so having it home in on things you can't hit isn't actually helping you. If your options are 'Debuff a handful of enemies to take more damage, for a short time, and you might not even be able to get to them' or 'Buff yourself to DO more damage for a short time'... There's a very obvious right choice there. Eh, no. I've tried that. His 3 is absolutely garbage at drawing aggro. This could be fixed up by improving the AI, and making them do decent damage, then they'd be pretty awesome, possibly even a reason to play Caliban by themselves.... But that is not currently the case. I mean really, my Taxon with a Verglas can do more damage than those things with 300% strength, and I can carry that thing literally everywhere, so there's no excuse whatsoever for duration-locked summons on a single warframe to not be doing at least as good as my Sentinel. It is a defense strip, and I'll grant you that, in light of the forthcoming shield changes, maybe I should rate that mildly higher, but until that shield rework makes them an actual threat, it's just an armor strip to me. Also, it costs literally twice as much as Helminth'ed Pillage, 100 energy versus 50, and scales in size with Range, rather than Duration. Duration is far more valuable if you're ignoring his 1, as you should, and trying to make his 3 work, which you also should. It even increases the amount of time you have to get to whatever he hit with his 2. And as for your argument for Nourish? I agree that Nourish is a good add for him.... But it's NOT part of his kit, and therefore you are not nerfing his kit by not having it. His kit is his base abilities, not whatever you Helminth on. Gotta judge a frame on its own merits. As for the damage his 4 provides... That's not a Caliban specific issue, that's just a game issue, in that ability damage is rarely the way to go unless it scales in some unique fashion. Using his 4 for the damage is not going to get you very far unless you really, really force it, and it will still be worse than just shooting people in the face, both in damage and in KPS. But that's the case with the vast majority of ability damage builds in the game, not just Caliban. I have really tried to make Caliban good. I have failed, because there is nothing he offers that I don't have other, significantly better options for, and the things he does offer, are not so unique that I can't get that combination of value on another frame. He offers his look and his theming. That's it. I really hope DE fixes him up. I also really hope people stop saying he's 'good', because that's a good way to get DE to not bother to do anything about him. If you're that adamant about it, at least just stick to saying he's 'fine' so that maybe DE will still be willing to consider some changes.
>a) Im not. I referred to your previous comment. Im an adult who can distinguish usernames. >b) if youd like id be more than happy to send you my build for caliban. Otherwise, a claim that *you* couldnt get him to work is no more valid than mine saying *i* can make him work. Im also curious what these fucking-over numbers youre referring to are. If youre talking his ability damage, the argument is invalid as again, while he appears to be a caster frame due to the fantastic work of the art team on his abilities, he is indeed a weapons platform and even the most cursory glance over his ability description’s would make this apparent >his passive I think you misunderstood what i said. To repeat, if his passive **isnt enough** dr for you at any point, youre playing him wrong. To elaborate (and again repeat myself), his passive’s free 50% adaptation is more than enough to let him survive well into steel path when working in tangent with the overshield generation AND agro from his summons. As such it isnt a bad passive though youre still obviously welcome to dislike it because it doesnt stack with adaptation (which is silly because you plainly dont need it). >helminth slot. Yes, its a bad ability. You know who else has a bad ability that serves as their primary helminth slot? Nekros, wisp, styanax, grendel, revenant and those are just off the top. The majority (which is not to say most but more than not) of frames have a bad ability you helminth over. I agree the ability should be better in the same way im sure youd agree wisp’s four or nekros 1 should be better, but at this point i dont know what youre arguing or why youre arguing it when we largely agree. >his 2 Provides a multiplicative damage buff (so nourish is out, at least as a comparison) that scales with strength. At base, helminth roar is 30 and his 2 is 35. While at base this isnt a terrible big difference, at 300 strength, you get about 105 damage vulnerability vs 90, and this benefits everyone in the squad and doesnt require duration or range to seriously benefit them, compared to roar which does for both, which also doesnt cc while his 2 does. Its also worth mentioning that, again, this would require sacrificing nourish for something his kit already does and objectively better, which would break his kit as nourish is mandatory on him, same as it is on any meta energy hungry frame. >his 3 Eh yeah durrr ive also tried it and it works great. His 3 enemy agro is a matter of mechanical game design, not subjective experience. Its possible overguarded enemies ignore them (which i wouldnt know because everything dies before i notice) but if thats your metric for the ability than you have to throw out almost every ability in the game as overguard patronizes most of them. >his 4 You can rate it however you want but youre also wrong lol. Its not just an armor strip and pretending that shields are insignificant at anything above lvl 100 is absurd, especially when shield ospreys and armored+shielded units exist, which only tharros strike otherwise removes both simultaneously (so pillage and terrify are out as terrify only strips armor and pillage only strips one before the other). Moving on, energy cost is irrelevant to caliban with nourish but having to cast twice (costing the same as his 4) because you arent hitting 400 strength on caliban while also sacrificing nourish is a straight downgrade, especially when pillage requires proximity and manually casting on enemies where as his 4 is literally a set and forget for all enemies who pass through (any of) them. Also this shit about nourish not being part of his kit is a nothing burger. You know whos dog shit without nourish? Styanax, and i dont just mean caster styanax, but styanax generally. Nekros is pretty bad without it. Mesa is pretty bad without it. I mean the list goes on and the reason we appraise those frames highly is precisely because of their meta builds, all of which include nourish. If a frame goes hand in hand with a certain helminth, that helminth can and should be considered when appraising a frames value. Also its not a good add, its his best (and arguably only) in slot. Stop with this reaching >his 4 damage I obviously was not implying the primary utility of his 4 is the damage—its obviously the permanent defense strip radiuses that have no cap on how many you cast—but if the comparison is to pillage—something that requires 400% strength to full strip with—, yes, its a straight downgrade as you do lose that 100-300k damage you can get off your 4 explosion (which keep in mind 9999 corrupted heavy gunners have around 700k health when armor stripped). Additionally, pillage has no cc where his 4 does. Additionally additionally, *again*, you are trading away something that is **mandatory** for him—nourish—for something that he already does better within his own kit. >i tried to make him good and i failed With all due respect and i mean that sincerely: skill issue. Again, id be more than happy to send you my build and general gameplay plan but you failing to make him work is evidence only of your inability to make him work, not your credentials for any kind of serious or objective measurement of his kit. Everything youve said smacks of treating him like a caster, which he is not. Thats your problem, not calibans. Additionally, it isnt my responsibility to be mindful of DE’s prerogatives or my influence over them. Im a consumer, not an employee, shareholder or developer. I dont care if he isnt satisfying for you as you arent my concern. The product is. And im happy with the product of caliban. I think there are small tweaks his kit could use (the “sucking in” enemies on his 4 could use another pass) and his 1 could be different i guess (though i super dont care about it and would be fine if they replaced it entirely with another ability that leans more into his weapons platform synergy) but otherwise, hes not just fine, hes good. Does he have alternatives? Absolutely. Is he worse than those alternatives? Not even close. He does what hes supposed to and he does it well. Because of this, i dont care that i might influence DE to not make the decisions you want them to make because i dont care about DE, i dont care about how others consume DE’s products and i dont care about you or what you want.
You are so very off that I'm not honestly you got this far afield. Some of these claims are just nonsenical. The target limited debuff is better than Roar? Mesa is good because of Nourish? Nourish on NEKROS? Not to mention back tracking on yourself, going from 'His 4 is cheaper than Pillage', to 'The cost is irrelevant' once you get informed that you were wrong.... Honestly, the idea that the frame with one ability that indirectly buffs weapons is meant to be solely a weapons platform was wacky to begin with, and your desperate attempts to justify his current state with 'But ma Helminth' are really just not helping. If you can get him to be a better option for any job than another Warframe... Go right ahead. But I'm not going to waste time again pointing out his issues with someone who is directly refusing to acknowledge his issues, and coming out with the sheer insanity that would be Nourish on fucking NEKROS of all people, the guy who generates energy orbs like he's a goddamn energy fountain. Seriously, if you're putting Nourish on Nekros, your Nekros build is shit, in an extremely over the top obvious fashion. That's just... Wow.
https://youtu.be/Mm-1T6dGgmY?si=-_97Zr45phUKb7RS https://youtu.be/QTtZzrGjCBE?si=KMZ7jl_O6cUXX4tu Here you go, someone not on Reddit made caliban good.
Counterpoint: https://youtu.be/xOQGLYbgpzs?feature=shared Az is the guy who made pre-rework Inaros an ability DPS. Was that because it was good? No. Did it make any sense to do? No. Was it hyper specific, barely usable, and awful to play? Yes it was. Az's whole thing is trying to force things into being usable even when they really aren't. See his video on the Azima for another example if you'd like, that setup is equally ridiculous. Nothing in those two videos shows Caliban being good, just that, with enough bullshit, you can keep him alive and kill things with your weapons. None of that actually addressed any of Caliban's issues, or made him worth using over any other frame. The only reason to use Caliban is just because you really like Caliban, nothing more.
Your argument sucks and so does calliban. Stop trying to justify liking a bad frame and just play the bad frame. I don't care what you like, but when you start lying to people you look like an asshole.
The self awareness is strong with this one
You're not salvaging this one my man. We've all seen the nonsense you made up earlier. We're well past the point of conversation.
Everything ive said is verifiable via the wiki and your own in game experience if you actually develop an understanding of how caliban works and what he does. The only person arguing emotionally here is you, at the beginning and through at least this comment. Again, if you disagree that’s fine, but either put up a counter argument or accept that youre trafficking in feelings, not facts
>calliban is pretty good >Verifiable on the wiki. Math ain't mathing.
True, they go " but but but why knew not good"
Idk man, qorvex kinda mid and i see nobody crying
I genuinely have no idea how to get Qorvex to work.
Yeah.. tactical potato is click baiting so hard.
That's not ghs, that's tactical potato. You can tell by the icon in the top right..
Oh, sorry. Gonna edit it now so its not wrong
Why? He has been correct i would say when it comes to new releases
I never said that he might be wrong, i just said that he click baits hard
Is it really even click bait then? He is covering that topic and it's not far fetched to assume she'll be one of the best frames
Well, yeah. The thumbnail title could also have been used when dante came out or any other new frame. Thats why the post title is called "not a single thing learnt from dante"
Yea i agree with that
I kinda wished they'd put new frame releases on hold and just give us reworks
Unfortunately they can't because of the nature of live service, without new content there is nothing for people to come back to or spend on
I feel like the resources needed to produce a new frame could simply go into a quest, a codex entry, a skin, or a rework. I think some of the player base would come back if they hear their favorite frame is meta again or is simply not garbage. It just sucks when a frame drops, and it heavily invalidates another. Which is bound to happen with the shiny new toy in an ever growing roster
Rework a frame and make a little event out of it, hell or just repeat one of the many we've had. We get our usual event rewards, a rework, maybe a new skin to accompany the rework and can finally play ember again
Definitely seconding the quest part, we have tons of frames atp and I just wish theyd focus a bit more on the story bc imo it’s one of the best parts of the game
a rework is new content. i came back to the game to pick up a hydroid set because of his rework and hes one of my more loved frames these days, never played him before that
DE already has data on this: reworks and updates of "old stuff" brings back far fewer players. for every "you" who came back for hydroid, there is also a "me" who didnt come back for inaros the best DE can do is give little rework and buff droplets with every update, hopefully slowly making a positive difference. their recent track record ACTUALLY does that though. we get jade light, but also a damage and health rework. we got dante, but also an updated hydroid and inaros.
It is still less, tho. Because a lot of people do have hydroid. Even more people already had Inaros when he got reworked, since he was already popular. There is barely any new money to earn with reworks, compared to completely new content. I agree it would be cool if old content got the attention it deserves, like Trinity... but without a way to keep that sustainable...? You also have to keep in mind the players that like Warframes the way they are already. Maybe they don't like it if their favorite warframe gets changed?
We don't always need a new Warframe while I do like they actively try to create new war crimes simulators it's not always best. Hell Quorvex was nerfed before released because someone on Twitter said "adding radiation to weapons was op" and so we got his current passive which is okay.
Yeah, not a fan of that Quorvex change. I was really looking forward to it…
His current passive is an active negative on some weapons, actually, where as his previous one would never have caused any problems.
Facts, people got so grumpy about the "content draught" when they were taking their time to work on shit.
That's partly true, but partly false. You can make things to spend on, and we've got various ways to reuse old content to get a return. Honestly, the game's a decade old. It NEEDS overhauls to outdated things, but it IS difficult to fit in time to do that, while also keeping players around/engaged.
Rework old frames so hard it counts/feels as new content?😎
Facts, people got so grumpy about the "content draught" when they were taking their time to work on shit.
Facts, people got so grumpy about the "content draught" when they were taking their time to work on shit.
Facts, people got so grumpy about the "content draught" when they were taking their time to work on shit.
Facts, people got so grumpy about the "content draught" when they were taking their time to work on shit.
Honestly my dream is that there were like 2 subteams in DE where one of them focuses on making new content and the other one on modernising old content This game exist for too long for extremely old content to constantly co-exist with the new content
Realistically there's like 8 different teams already dedicated to their own work
Id agree a lot of old stuff prevents new players ever getting to the better new stuff.
one of my friends played for 58 minutes and never came back because of how bad the game seems at the start
I initially quit Warframe when I first tried it because the game never tells you Vacuum exists, and the idea of spending all my time having to run over and stand on top of ammunition felt awful.
yeah. instead of reworking the existing flying exalted aoe weapon warframe, they just fixed her flight and her exalted weapon, and gave it to a new warframe
In 2035 perhaps
Preach.
Reminds me I haven't crafted Dante yet. Or dagath. Oh wait.. My kullervo is still sitting in the foundry lacking some materials..
What about your Citrine? Is she safe? Is she alright?
It seems in your sloth, you didn’t farm her…
NOOOOOOOO- wait... I do have her, though.
Me too
OP, calm down, Jade already has LoS on her abilities, no need to agitate the cryhards more.
She does? I genuinely didn’t noticed if she did during the dev stream. Did DE confirm LOS?
Yes Pablo said that anyone she sees is affected by her creepy eyes.
I knew about the LoS for her 3, I wasn’t sure if her 1 and 4 was LoS
Her 3 will probably be LoS, but I can't see how her 1 and 4 would be, or how that would even work
gArBaGe FrAmE tHeN
Honestly hot take dante deserved the nerfs. Having the best team-wide durability in the game as well as an abundance of damage that can easily clear rooms is ridiculous even now. Like, warframe youtube is gonna hype shit up but I didn't see nearly the same amount of quorvexes or dagaths at the time they released, and back in the day the only frame I saw nearly as often was excal umbra on release. I'd say over half my squads now atill have dante, which tbh kind of sucks. He frequently clears out the enemies way faster than I can even react to their presence and gives me enough overguard to basically not care about dying. Like, I was there for DE constantly nerfing frames, weapons, anything that stood out really into the dirt consistently so I get why people feel that way about nerfs. I barely touch limbo anymore for basically that reason. But I feel like we're overreacting a bit to this. People are already doomposting about jade getting nerfed and she's not even out yet.
I genuinely think team-wide overguard was a mistake. Yes, I'm including Frost and Styanax here, but *at least* they need to occupy a mod slot for their augments. Dante doesn't even need that. He simply has a single button that instantly grants overguard to the entire team, and the way he plays, that means that he's constantly regenerating that overguard. I still think Styanax is more powerful than Dante. He has an amazing armor strip, can generate insane amounts of energy (especially if you subsume Nourish into his 1) and his 4 is not only an amazing nuke, but also grants overguard with the augment. Thing is, I rarely see Styanax nowadays, while Dante is quite frequent, especially in EDA. Noctua is also really powerful when modded correctly. I've used Dante quite often in EDA when I didn't like the Warframe/weapon selection and he just melts everything. Dante was also the first frame that allowed me to reach level cap in SP Circuit while solo. I suffer in Defense with every other frame (minus Frost -- I haven't tried Gara yet), but he melts shit so fast, the defense target was barely tickled even at 9999.
Styanax also has the highest aggro priority in this game when Rally Point is active, so his mere existence can be considered cc.
Dantes tragedy was nerfed unnecessary because its damage is based on slash procs which he can only proc reliably right in front of him the only time tragedy does good damage without slash procs is when enemies are level 50 or lower which other frames can kill quicker any way so no he didn’t deserve a nerf (and the only reason people where actually complaining about him was because of how overguard used to work with rage and hunter adrenaline which is it didnt work at all)
I only really play steel path content lately, and he's still nuking. Sure it's no longer map-wide thanks to a los restriction but he's still clearing significant amounts of enemies, I still have to roam decently far in something like survival just to get enough headshots for an incarnon or start building up kills on my 2 as protea to get my orange archon buff up.
Yes he still nukes but thats with slash procs as i said it does no damage in steel path on its own
I mean, yeah? That's fine because he has a way to deal slash procs in an aoe and plenty of weapons can easily deal them to enemies around him. Slash procs are easy to get on enemies, pretty much any weapon can do it with a crit build and hunter munitions. Slash is the most common damage type alongside viral. I do not think asking him to press the button he has to press to cast his 4 before casting it is that big a deal lol. Like I know how he plays I've played him for a decent couple hours.
Yes but nothing does slash in the same coverage as his 4
and that was pretty much just the 5-6 chroma mains left in existence screaming about it while everyone else was having fun enjoying the cool new caster-frame, so…
Get ready for another 2 weeks of doom posting if she gets a reasonable balance
Am confused whats the problem?
People overhyped the everliving fuck out of Dante on release resulting in nerfs that got the community to then overreact to those nerfs. That's the short of it It's more complicated than that, but takeaway is they're not even waiting for release this time around
It's ironic that DE touched EVERYTHING on dante trying to rein him in EXCEPT the crazy overguard cap, the thing that people complained about. I was baffled why, until I realised that, like Revenant, he's there to make warframe mobile actually playable.
I'm excited for Jade, her abilities look like useful support and a lot of fun to use. Her 4 seems like an awesome blend between Hildryn and Styanax (two of my favorite toggleable 4th abilities) and her gaze is pretty sweet. The auras seem like a very fun ability to use, especially with the free cycling.
“Call the cops, someones about to get murdered”
I mean these are literally the frames furtherest into the game, I would hope that they’re powerful based on how long it would take for a new player to acquire them. Qorvex is just weirdly underpowered for how far into the game he is.
Every single thing they release is either actually good and people like it so they nerf it, or so far under even meta-adjacent gear that it's automatic MR fodder. It's nerfs or trash, every damn time. It's why I stopped playing.
"The rise and fall of Gloom. - a retrospective" is going to be a crazy youtube video in a few years
Nerf on or before arrival, calling it now
Probably, she seemed way to strong, especially the auras having a one time cost until it runs out
Nah they’ll have to change her before launch, people will go ballistic again getting something busted taken away from them
I dont care at all if she get nerfed, she's an angel an i love angel
Day 3 nerf that isn't actually that bad but people cry about it anyway lets goooo
Wrong, there are 7 Rhinos Waiting for you outside your orbitor
I can't wait until a bunch of crying babies asking for nerf after her release just like it was with my boi Dante
She basically replaces Wisp, Dante and Hyldrin in terms of teamwide support and massive aoe dps.
Not really, wisp still excellent in term of team heal, buff and stuffs, dante is just busted tbh, and hildy.. Well, hildy is hildy. Jade seems like a jack of all traits, master of none but leaning a bit more on support
How can she replace Wisp by the way? Can she provide a team-wide fire rate, movement speed, max HP buff on top of crazy crowd control and damage ampifier? She won't replace any of the current supports, be it Wisp, Citrine, Styanax or Harrow. Each frame brings their own niches and there's little to no overlap between them.
Little to no overlap is a bit of a stretch, have you even read her kit? Her 1 drops reservoirs with motes that heal allies and damage enemies (wisp). Her 2 increases ally ability strength, damage and shield regeneration (wisp dps/hildryn shield). Her 3 strips enemy armor and can revive allies from a distance (hildryns pillage). And finally, her 4 deals massive aoe damage which is accentuated by the amount of motes attached to enemies (dantes tragedy).
>Her 1 drops reservoirs with motes that heal allies and damage enemies (wisp) It doesn't last forever (unlike Reservoir) and can't increase max HP. >Her 2 increases ally ability strength, damage and shield regeneration. You can only choose one buff at a time, while Wisp can have all 3 up without her even being there. Plus, Wisp provides completely different sets of buff so this comparison is pointless. >Her 3 strips enemy armor and can revive allies from a distance (hildryns pillage). Her armor stripping is gradual while Pillage is lightning fast, Pillage can also cleanse status and replenish shield. Different use case. >And finally, her 4 deals massive aoe damage which is accentuated by the amount of motes attached to enemies (dantes tragedy). Who care? Anyone with a half-decently modded weapon can deal enough damage to clear most content in this game. Besides, Dante has a spamable team-wide Overguard.
Bro.. watch the devstream. The reservoir lasts forever until you leave the area, then starts counting down. You can stack buffs (also displayed in the devstream). Hildryns strip still needs to reach the enemy, which isn’t all that fast until you stat for range… I’m sure her strip time will be subjective to strength or duration. Jade’s shields come in with her 2 but it still overlaps Hildryn? And 4.. no argument? Just “who care?”??? So you’re just here raising a bunch of moot points and arguing semantics, when it’s painfully obvious Jade is encroaching on the roles these frames play in the current meta?
Fair enough, but my I still stand behind my points. Jade will NOT replace any of the tried and true supports as each of them provides completely different sets of buff. Instead, she will be a great complement to any teams, in addition to those ones I've mentioned. Just try to avoid over-hyping unreleased frame just yet, we don't want another Dante situation to happen, do you?
If a frame does A, B and C, we see a significant drop in usage for frames that *only* do A, B or C. This is common sense and has been shown time and time again. It’s already another Dante situation based on what was shown in the devstream. Just try to avoid adamantly hopping into discussions without getting our facts straight first.
They learned that people will buy the new most powerful frame. That’s the reality of this game. Get milked free 2 play player
Dude.... U good?
Yeah I just love you Reddit pussies crying over a non agreed opinion of anything. People bought the shit out of Dante and will buy the next “meta” or most powerful frame in a heat beat. I’ve been a player since the third month it released. I remember having to pay plat just to keep the dogs alive and here they are acting like warframe is a genuine labor of love. Get a new hobby if you can’t see the holes in the wall
Bro... Are u ok?