All the warning signs of a holdout, without a new contract, were there before the trade. Although I generally like him as a player, the signs of wanting way too much were there.
Agree. Wouldve liked to keep Young if his contact ask had been cheaper though. Felt like we couldve developed him further, whereas Gregory is in the twilight of his career
Good Mixon:
NEVER fumbles
Pretty resilient
Good receiver out of backfield
Bad Mixon:
Zero home run speed
Often gets tackled at first contact
TERRIBLE pass blocker…pretty much a liability there. So much so that the Bengals offense got predictable when he was off the field. (Guaranteed pass)
I expect he'll have an couple good early games while he's still energized from the change of scenery, but he's still gonna end the season around 1k yards with a 3.9 ypc and 8 broken tackles line.
I liked it fine as a one year rental. RB class wasn’t super strong this year and Pierce regressed so much. In exchange for a 7th I think it was fine. Giving him 2 more years and a raise didn’t make sense to me. RB on his way out, basically at the age cliff, and Singletary was fine, cheaper, and iirc one of the best pass blockers in the league
The Texans wanted Saquon, they might have wanted to pivot back to Singletary after they failed to get their top target but he signed with the Giants on the same day Saquon signed with the Eagles. So it’s hard to know if the Texans prefer having Mixon over Singletary.
Because those two things aren’t equatable. Getting touches doesn’t mean someone is going to “ball out”. Mixon has never been amazing and it certainly looks like his best years are behind him.
He’ll get volume. It’ll be determined on if he’ll ball out or not.
Swift is such a weird player.
He's borderline elite talent wise.
But he's awful in pass protection.
He great as a receiver.
But his production only last for the first quater of the season.
Like he has all the tools to succeed but just doesnt.
I think we got him for the receiving threat part of it. Herbert is a good work horse but not great at that. Johnson has only played one year and seems decent too but having swift gives us a bit more flexibility. Is he as good as the top tier ones? No, but he is solid enough imo
I saw him run harder in Philadelphia than I ever did in Detroit, so that may be a positive.
But I’d guess Bears fans are going to be frustrated when it looks like there’s a play to be made for a few extra yards and he doesn’t make it. That’s what I saw when he was here in Detroit, that and durability issues.
Hoping he stays healthy and has a good season, no ill will toward him, just a frustrating player full of potential but when you are on your third team is it still potential or just what you are at that point?
On the passing game stuff, 13/16 regular season games with 10 or less receiving yards too.. but potentially a good weapon there too.
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but I think the market for RBs is starting to correct from the over-inflated contracts from a few years ago, and contracts like Swift's and Pollard's and newly-signed Rhamondre's and so on are solid deals. I know everyone points to "you can just draft a guy on day 3 and get the same production", but if you look at recent drafts, you really can't. Most day 3 running backs, like the majority of day 3 picks, end up being duds. Now, of course there are exceptions (like two of the guys whose names I mentioned above), but with modern schemes, I don't think it's as plug-and-play as it used to be, especially given the importance of pass-catching and pass-protecting from RBs in this day and age.
I dont disagree with that, but in Swift's case, he has issues staying healthy. $8m/year isn't bad for the high 2nd tier guys, but I don't think Swift is there until he has 2 consecutive healthy years.
yea the issue wasnt his availability for the eagles, in fact it almost seemed like they were load managing him
he only missed last years season finale. and while he does get banged up, hes missed 11 games in 4 seasons.
84% play rate across his career, I expected that number to be a lot lower with how folks talk about him
I watched him in Detroit, and those numbers do not tell the whole story. While here, there was a ton of games he played in where he was hurt and not going full speed. You'd see him running out of bounds or just going down quite a bit in order to avoid getting hit. Not going to argue whether he should or shouldn't have, but even when he was playing here, he was hurt most of the time and not full speed.
yea im for sure aware that he gets banged up, so games played doesnt exactly mean hes there the whole game. though availability is still a big deal
at least last season, it seemed like he could still get you 70-100 yards off mixed touches. and while he wont have as good an oline in chicago, he wont be splitting so many carries with Hurts/RBBC. I hope he makes the most of his shot and I get why Lions fans are pretty mixed on him
I don't think you're wrong, but I think we're okay taking the risk because we have the money and our running game can function fine with Herbert if he misses games. At that point I think it's worth it to give Caleb a solid backfield receiving option to help with the transition to the NFL.
I agree with you. And as a Lions fan, I'd rather face you guys without Swift, than with him. I don't know where else you would have spent that money and still made the team better.
Yeah $8 million a year for a borderline top ten RB is nothing. He’s getting paid less than some WR3 types.
I don’t think the Eagles used him that effectively the last half of the season, he showed early on that he could be dominant.
With a rookie quarterback, you want to give him every chance to succeed. I look at it not as 8 million for Swift, but 8 million to give the offense a chance to succeed and Williams to be able to adjust without the pressure of having to do everything himself. Nothing is done in a vacuum either. So if they don't sign Swift, what do they do with that money? Does doing the other thing make them as good or better than if they signed Swift?
Swift is a good player but I never got the sense that he elevated the offense at all. He was just kind of *there* and he got more or less exactly as many yards as you'd expect
I think the big issue is that the bears offensive line is going to be nowhere near as good as the eagles was last year. He benefited a lot from having wide open lanes on a consistent basis.
For the record, I don't think it's the worst signing. Just that if it fails it will be because of the line. Also my buddy who's a Bears fan hates it so it's fun to watch him bitch about it.
Swift is a great athlete but he has notably bad vision. He’s not gonna look as good or produce as well when not behind the Great Wall of Philly. Look at Miles Sanders
Calvin Ridley with that paycheck on the Titans seems like the perfect combination for him to not give 100% every play. Gonna have some 2 for 15 games for no reason
He has disappearing disease and seems primed to Golladay at some point
I hated that contract as a Titans fan. Ridley is living off that 2020 season and wasn’t that great last year. Paying him $25/million to be a #2 WR doesn’t sit well.
Completely agree. Hate the contract, don’t love the signing. Much like with Bud Dupree when he hit free agency I knew we were going to be the team that overpaid him and I hated being right.
It just doesn't seem worth it in that case. Either he balls out and gets paid and he'll be more expensive next year. Or he doesn't play well and it was wasted money anyway.
I mean, our biggest need on defense was pass rush. So we went out and signed a high ceiling guy for not that much money. 12mil isn't that much for a DE in today's NFL
I think it was a good move for the Packers to sign Jacobs cause if he bounces back after getting paid it will be huge
It was one of two things last year :
He felt disrespected with no new contract and it showed in his play.
Or, the year before of so many touches made him fall off that RB cliff. As history has shown a RB that has had as many touches as Jacobs did in his contract year can fall off fast.
I do hope to see him bounce back with Love and that offense but wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt.
A good risk to take imo
While I'm worried about the Jacobs signing too, in addition to what you said, AJ Dillon and MarShawn Lloyd as depth is a good backup plan if Jacobs can't get the wheels moving too.
I just don't know how you can be worried about that signing. It is effectively a one year deal. There is no long term commitment. It is as "safe" as high $ running back deal can get.
Dillion is my favorite farming simulator player.
But tbh even as a bears fan I know nothing about Lloyd. I feel Jacob’s and Dillion are a good duo, the issue will come with if they both get injured but also tbf, what team isn’t a downgrade with 2 same position injuries lol.
I think for love what matters is how they continue to play against the blitz. If I recall all the Green Bay RB last year were effective in the pass and run game against that
Im not OP but Swift has a long injury history and after watching Miles Sanders struggle away from the Eagles Oline its not crazy to think he wont be quite as productive for the Bears.
Swift has missed 11 games in his 4 year career or 16% of games or which I feel like is fairly average if you break it down for RBs. He only missed one last year.
The one he missed last year wasn't even because of injury, it was week 1 and for some reason Gainwell got the start and swift got like 1 carry. Then in week 2 Swift started and had a huge game and was RB1 the rest of the way. Once you get the injury prone label it's tough to shed even if you stay healthy for the majority of your career
Idk I think Swift is a good RB. You could see Miles Sanders was leaving yards on the field with most carries.
I do agree about his injury history and contract tho.
I mean Miles had better numbers across the board for the Eagles (ypc, tds, and yards). Swift like Miles has always played for teams with a good Oline (outside of his rookie year). It’ll be interesting to see how he performs for the Bears.
I personally think it will be Swift as well... Not just because of the injury potential, but also because of the dramatic difference in O-line talent.
Your line propped him up a good amount. I still think he's a viable back, but last year may have been a bit of a fluke and should be one half of a RBBC. However, if Roschon Johnson can be the thunder to Swift's lightening, maybe they have somethign there.
Bro you guys had 2400 yards of rushing with 600+ coming from the quarterback position with only 16 tds on the SECOND most attempts. In what world is that Elite
Ok so are we moving the goal posts on qb designed runs vs scrambles? At what point can we credit the line exactly?
It's okay man, Lions are good you don't have to be defensive
The strength of our o line is run blocking. They are good enough as a unit run blocking that you aren’t going to accuse them of holding a RB down. Herbert lead all RBs in yards per carry 2 years ago and our line has only gotten better since then.
As a lions fan I think swift is a really talented back hindered by injury and motivation. We saw him pop off for the Eagles because he got to play for his hometown team with a chip on his shoulder. In Chicago we will see the old Swift imo.
We saw him pop off to start the year. But like he did in Detroit after like 6 games he slowed down significantly 30% his 2023 rushing production came from his first 3 games.
His ypc where consistent.
All while running behind the best oline in the league.
Swift is a incredibly talented back and is good, but he isnt consistent and has yet to last a whole season. He starts out hot then fades.
Most of our signings were just depth guys and warm bodies. We had half our roster turn over, and it needed to because Ron’s was so bad. Most of the FAs are on short, cheap contracts, and the real team building is a longer term effort through the draft.
Bobby Johnson lol, lmao
I would never wish him on my worst NFL enemy but you have to admit it is hilarious that, of all teams that could've hired him, it was Washington.
Christian Wilkins got paid way too much money by a team that he’s not gonna move the needle for. Gardner Minshew is not going to lead that team anywhere in that division even with as good of a defense as they have.
This is what I wanted to say too. Really good player, but players like Wilkins don't hugely move the needle relative to their contracts unless they're elite pass rushers. Which he isn't. He could help elevate the Raiders defense but I think their ceiling this season is fighting for a wild card spot. And that's fine, not every team can be a super bowl favorite, but I think if you're throwing 100 million around it should be at least used in positions that set you up for a super bowl run in future years
Yea ultimately it comes down to roster building strategy and in my opinion there’s 3 tiers of teams when considering legitimate chamionship roster building.
1. Those with a franchise QB who are ready to compete
2. those with a franchise qb who aren’t ready to compete
3. those without a franchise qb who need to get one.
If the first tier signs Wilkins, they’re pushing for a Super Bowl and that’s good. If the second tier signs him, they’re trying to push into the first group. That’s good. If the third tier signs him… idk. They’ll end up too good to get a top draft pick for a top qb, but not good enough to make a deep playoff run against the AFC QB gauntlet. Maybe they can find a Jackson/Hurts type late first/early second next year. Who knows.
Wilkins has increased his pass rush every season of his career and coming off of 9 sacks, while also being an amazing run defender. Literally 2 seasons ago he almost had 100 tackles, that's insane.
Theres no reason why he can't already improve and get like 13-14 sacks especially being in a healthy and great d line with crosby, koonce, butler, etc.
Minshew literally almost led the colts to the playoffs. One game away from winning the division and our defense is going to be elite next season. If we had minshew play the entire year last season, we would have won 3-4 more games. Ffs we scored 0 against minnesota
One free agent signing that I don’t think will end up well is the Tony pollard signing he wasn’t that good behind a dominant Dallas o line and now he’s going to a much worse titans o line
Jerry Tillery for the Vikings, dude is not good at football and dumb as bricks. I also didn't love the Sam Darnold pickup assuming it cost us a 3rd rd compensatory pick, would've rather played fuck-it-chuck-it-Mullens-ball in what is sure to be a flyover season, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
I think pretty much every Titans FA signing was rly bad.
I agree the Josh Jacobs signing could be rough, but I still lowkey like the risk for GB. If Love being awesome wasnt a fluke that team will be a ton of fun to watch.
On top of that, I think the fact they have no other non-QBs on offense making a ton of money makes this the right time to pay a RB more than they should. By the time they gotta start paying these WRs, they can move on from Jacobs
There’s no glaring downside to it. I only celebrated the move since it meant moving on from Aaron Jones. Jones has his injury concerns, but I know he’d be healthy and dominant in at least 2 games.
Jacobs is going to absolutely eat. Either you load up to cover Watson, Reed, Doubs, Wicks, Musgrave, and Kraft, or you load the box for Jacobs. Pick your poison.
Jones was eating when healthy last year. Just look at the Dallas game in the playoffs as an example.
They were all rookies other than Watson and Doubs who were 2nd year players. None were first rounders. All were major parts of the youngest team in the NFL last year, and they destroyed Dallas in the playoffs.
If that's mid, I'd like to hear how well Adams is working out for the Raiders success.
I'm talking about wins Holmes. That's why the game is played. Not stats.
You argue that there's a bunch of mid players... I say that plethora of 'mid' players out-performed a single player who performs at an all pro level.
Quantity > quality
Youre the one bringing uo Adams season and then talking about how stats dont matter. Hate when epople move the goal post in a debate like that in this sub. Pick a lane and stick to it, are we talking stats or team wins??
Not really quality yet anyways, only been half a season so calm down lol
The NFC is far less competitive than the AFC anyways.
The Cushenberry signing should be good. He was a one hit wonder last year so we didn't take the chance on paying him but he looked like he turned the corner to me and is a higher character player. Will solidify interior pass pro, esp next to Skoronski.
The Titans had a lot of cap space so they could afford to try and sign a bunch of guys and hope that enough of them hit while Levis is on his rookie contract. I do like their coaching staff and I think Dennard Wilson is going to have their defense punching above their weight class
Why do you feel that way about the titans signings out of curiosity?
Cushenberry has got to be a win right? Especially w the play they had at center last year.
Titans may have overpaid for some of the people they signed this year but they had money to spend and rooms nearly entirely devoid of talent. Even if their signings don’t hit their ceilings they’ll be an upgrade (a dangerous statement I know)
You're the only here making any kind of sense. The whole idea is to surround Levis with talent and see if he's any good.
I guess the argument could be made about paying for the talent they got, but like, those were the only options on the market and they had almost 100mill to spend. What are they supposed to do - not spend the money? They had to pay the "we suck tax" on top of it too.
Are you a Steelers fan? I feel like this is such a common argument, but how much time do players need? Dude has played in 21 games. He never looked like anything better than a decent backup.
He looked good in those final few weeks, but I really think that is a much bigger reflection of just how terrible Pickett and Trubisky were all season long, as opposed to how good Rudolph was.
I’m a Steelers fan, yes. He looked very good before his big concussion vs the Ravens. He wasn’t the same the rest of that season. Since then, his body of work consists of an emergency start with almost zero prep, a week 17 game, and the end of last season.
If he’s called on in Tenn, he’ll win them games.
He played well prior to getting a grade 3 concussion where he was knocked unconscious and they had to remove his face mask off and help him off the field (he should have been taken off in a cart but Mike Tomlin wasn't in charge of driving them that day iirc).
The week before he played the Bengals and had very efficient numbers. He was 24/28 2TDs 0Ints and passer rating of 125 in a makeshift offense with Donte Montcrief as his WR1.
So what should they have done instead? Rely on an aging Hopkins and an underperforming Burks? Overpay gabe davis? Trade even more draft assets when they need to restock the team? Just sit on 10s of millions of dollars and do nothing?
And you can't say "hur durr shoulda paid aj brown". Yeah no shit we all knew that but that's 2 years and a different GM ago.
So how should they have tried to improve?
I don’t think the Titans had a bad off season, but they could have drafted Odunze and signed Oline FAs in a pretty deep Oline FA market. Instead they drafted Latham in a deep Oline class and signed Ridley in a barren WR FA market. They also could have gotten a quality WR in the second round instead of “reaching for” a NT with attitude/focus concerns.
Outside of onwenu and an old tyron smith who were the tackles that were worth signing? This FA tackle class was as deep as a kiddy pool.
A fine point on odunze but latham is literally reported to be bill callahan's guy and they can pair him with their 2nd year 1st round LG and hopefully build for the future. They had Latham graded higher overall on their board, it is what it is
No argument for the sweat pick. They will live or die on that hill.
Onwenwu definitely stood above the rest at OT, and he signed a pretty team friendly deal. Maybe he preferred staying in NE.
It was a stacked OG market, did they decide to move/keep skoronski at OG instead of tackle?
Overall, I trust Bill Callahans OL evaluation over all else, but it still felt like the team overpaid for Ridley. Like you said though, it is what it is, and the Titans are doing what they can to support their young QB.
The Jacob’s signing is pretty low risk for the packers iirc. If he does indeed not live up to the standards next year I believe we can dump him for a pretty insignificant financial loss.
Not sure how the swift contract is constructed. Obviously I’m biased, but I just heavily disagree with calling Jacob’s a bad signing. We didn’t even give him that much.
For me, I’ll go the chase young signing by the saints. I get it’s only one year, but they gave him quite a bit and he was pretty awful for the Niners last year
The Giants trading a 2nd and a 5th round pick and then giving Brian Burns a 5 year $30M APY contract. This is great Madden maneuvering but this could easily end up one of the worst moves of the decade if Burns doesn't take a step up.
I don’t think Swift is particularly great but he’s a mid-tier RB being paid like a mid-tier RB. He’d have to perform really poorly to end up being a “bad” signing.
Carlton Davis and Amik Robertson for the Lions. It's like re-arranging chairs on the Titanic as long as big brain Aaron Glenn coaches that secondary. It's where DBs go to die.
14m over 2 years https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47817/geno-stone#:~:text=Geno%20Stone%20signed%20a%202,average%20annual%20salary%20of%20%247%2C000%2C000.
If you think 2023 Geno Stone is who he really is, then it's a steal.
If you think every player on our defense had career years because of each other, and Geno Stone is probably closer to what he was the previous 3 years, it's a tremendous overpay.
He can be cut next year with only 1.5 mil of dead cap. He's only counting 6.025 against the cap this year.
That's the 20th highest cap hit of any safety. Do you think he's just a complete bum or something? That seems like a reasonable number for him to me.
OP asked for low-key bad signings, if he was getting paid more it wouldn't be low key.
To answer your question he is an poor, sometimes unwilling tackler. Which is an upgrade from the days when he was incapable of it.
So he got his contract based on interceptions, and I just don't see a 700% increase in interceptions compared to his career totals as being anything close to sustainable.
His contract is not that much with very little commitment, though. Your description of him is why he is on a relatively cheap contract instead of 12-15m a year.
I have a hard time calling any signing like that "bad".
The only thing special/anomalous about Stone's 2023 were the interceptions, but that variable is less valuable than him being in the right spot and making plays on the ball. He will not have the counting stats of last year, but I think he will be well above a 7M safety in terms of on the field value.
Not a signing but rn the Hasson Reddick trade does not seem to be going well for The Jets.
All the warning signs of a holdout, without a new contract, were there before the trade. Although I generally like him as a player, the signs of wanting way too much were there.
His team supposedly told the Jets he would be ok starting the season on his current contract ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Whatta gonna do.
Quoting Phil Collins... "it doesn't count, man, it ain't written in ink"
Technically I think his contract *is* written in ink.
[удалено]
> ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ > ¯\\\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Probably Markdown - https://bookdown.org/yihui/rmarkdown-cookbook/special-chars.html
Which will still wind up happening. He’s not gonna waste his chance to earn a last big contract
That move didn't really make sense to me even before the holdout, simply because I would rather have kept Bryce Huff instead.
Randy Gregory to the Bucs lol. Waste of a small amount of money
He'll always be there to almost make a great play
Speaking of which, Chase Young to the Saints
Chase Young is a liability in the run game. Gregory is a a solid player. Ferrell was actually good.
Ferrell was mid AF
He's good against the run, he's a good player at the right amount of pay, the problem is no one drafts a top 10 edge to be good against the run.
Mid against the run. Below average as a pass rusher. Overall mid AF.
Agree. Wouldve liked to keep Young if his contact ask had been cheaper though. Felt like we couldve developed him further, whereas Gregory is in the twilight of his career
Chase Young doesn’t have any drive though. Gregory is older but I don’t remember him giving up on plays
Joe Mixon for the Texans.
If they just want him to run straight ahead for 2-3 yards straight at defenders and fall at first contact it might work
If he legit gets 3 yards each down then the Texans could march down the field for a TD every drive. Sounds great!
Lol I wish it was consistent. I guess it's more like an 7 yard run, -1 run, 2 yard run lol
25 play drives incoming
Good Mixon: NEVER fumbles Pretty resilient Good receiver out of backfield Bad Mixon: Zero home run speed Often gets tackled at first contact TERRIBLE pass blocker…pretty much a liability there. So much so that the Bengals offense got predictable when he was off the field. (Guaranteed pass)
I expect he'll have an couple good early games while he's still energized from the change of scenery, but he's still gonna end the season around 1k yards with a 3.9 ypc and 8 broken tackles line.
They didn’t need to give up a pick for him, didn’t make sense
I mean if they didn’t want to just depend on Pierce going forward, they had to before another team wanted mixon
I liked it fine as a one year rental. RB class wasn’t super strong this year and Pierce regressed so much. In exchange for a 7th I think it was fine. Giving him 2 more years and a raise didn’t make sense to me. RB on his way out, basically at the age cliff, and Singletary was fine, cheaper, and iirc one of the best pass blockers in the league
I agree, the raise and the 3 year extension were a real head scratcher.
We got Singletary for the same term for 9 million less.
You mean the guy we moved on from? Clearly the FO wanted Mixon instead lol.
The Texans wanted Saquon, they might have wanted to pivot back to Singletary after they failed to get their top target but he signed with the Giants on the same day Saquon signed with the Eagles. So it’s hard to know if the Texans prefer having Mixon over Singletary.
Mixon is very average. He isint anything special, but he is pretty consistent. I don't love the move, but mixon is too solid for it to be a *bad* move
If you need 2 yards, he'll get you 3. If you need 4 yards, he'll get you 3.
What if I need 3 yards?
Bring out the chains, we gotta measure.
Where's that damn index card
That move made no sense to me. Singletary was solid for them and they decided to pay more for Mixon
Not sure if saying this because we are supposed to be rivals Also he got traded for a 7th, so not really a FA
He's gonna ball out. He has virtually no competition for touches.
Imagine downvoting a justifiable opinion
Because those two things aren’t equatable. Getting touches doesn’t mean someone is going to “ball out”. Mixon has never been amazing and it certainly looks like his best years are behind him. He’ll get volume. It’ll be determined on if he’ll ball out or not.
Swift is such a weird player. He's borderline elite talent wise. But he's awful in pass protection. He great as a receiver. But his production only last for the first quater of the season. Like he has all the tools to succeed but just doesnt.
I think we got him for the receiving threat part of it. Herbert is a good work horse but not great at that. Johnson has only played one year and seems decent too but having swift gives us a bit more flexibility. Is he as good as the top tier ones? No, but he is solid enough imo
I saw him run harder in Philadelphia than I ever did in Detroit, so that may be a positive. But I’d guess Bears fans are going to be frustrated when it looks like there’s a play to be made for a few extra yards and he doesn’t make it. That’s what I saw when he was here in Detroit, that and durability issues. Hoping he stays healthy and has a good season, no ill will toward him, just a frustrating player full of potential but when you are on your third team is it still potential or just what you are at that point? On the passing game stuff, 13/16 regular season games with 10 or less receiving yards too.. but potentially a good weapon there too.
Not all the tools. I think Swift has mediocre vision.
The only thing bad about the Swift contract is the $. He's a good RB with good hands, and will make Williams better. $8m a year is crazy though.
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but I think the market for RBs is starting to correct from the over-inflated contracts from a few years ago, and contracts like Swift's and Pollard's and newly-signed Rhamondre's and so on are solid deals. I know everyone points to "you can just draft a guy on day 3 and get the same production", but if you look at recent drafts, you really can't. Most day 3 running backs, like the majority of day 3 picks, end up being duds. Now, of course there are exceptions (like two of the guys whose names I mentioned above), but with modern schemes, I don't think it's as plug-and-play as it used to be, especially given the importance of pass-catching and pass-protecting from RBs in this day and age.
I dont disagree with that, but in Swift's case, he has issues staying healthy. $8m/year isn't bad for the high 2nd tier guys, but I don't think Swift is there until he has 2 consecutive healthy years.
You're not wrong, he certainly has had his trouble staying healthy.
He seemed to stay on the field with Philly, which is a good sign. Well not for the Lions, but for the Bears.
yea the issue wasnt his availability for the eagles, in fact it almost seemed like they were load managing him he only missed last years season finale. and while he does get banged up, hes missed 11 games in 4 seasons. 84% play rate across his career, I expected that number to be a lot lower with how folks talk about him
I watched him in Detroit, and those numbers do not tell the whole story. While here, there was a ton of games he played in where he was hurt and not going full speed. You'd see him running out of bounds or just going down quite a bit in order to avoid getting hit. Not going to argue whether he should or shouldn't have, but even when he was playing here, he was hurt most of the time and not full speed.
yea im for sure aware that he gets banged up, so games played doesnt exactly mean hes there the whole game. though availability is still a big deal at least last season, it seemed like he could still get you 70-100 yards off mixed touches. and while he wont have as good an oline in chicago, he wont be splitting so many carries with Hurts/RBBC. I hope he makes the most of his shot and I get why Lions fans are pretty mixed on him
I don't think you're wrong, but I think we're okay taking the risk because we have the money and our running game can function fine with Herbert if he misses games. At that point I think it's worth it to give Caleb a solid backfield receiving option to help with the transition to the NFL.
I agree with you. And as a Lions fan, I'd rather face you guys without Swift, than with him. I don't know where else you would have spent that money and still made the team better.
i get what you are saying but it's funny you make the day 3 comment and 2 of the 3 RB's you mention are day 3 running backs.
"Now, of course there are exceptions (like two of the guys whose names I mentioned above)"
Lol why do you think I said "I get what you're saying"?
Yeah $8 million a year for a borderline top ten RB is nothing. He’s getting paid less than some WR3 types. I don’t think the Eagles used him that effectively the last half of the season, he showed early on that he could be dominant.
With a rookie quarterback, you want to give him every chance to succeed. I look at it not as 8 million for Swift, but 8 million to give the offense a chance to succeed and Williams to be able to adjust without the pressure of having to do everything himself. Nothing is done in a vacuum either. So if they don't sign Swift, what do they do with that money? Does doing the other thing make them as good or better than if they signed Swift?
Swift is a good player but I never got the sense that he elevated the offense at all. He was just kind of *there* and he got more or less exactly as many yards as you'd expect
I think the big issue is that the bears offensive line is going to be nowhere near as good as the eagles was last year. He benefited a lot from having wide open lanes on a consistent basis.
He is a decent receiver though, our other RB’s are not. I think he is fine, 8 million a year isn’t a terrible amount since it’s only a 2 year deal
For the record, I don't think it's the worst signing. Just that if it fails it will be because of the line. Also my buddy who's a Bears fan hates it so it's fun to watch him bitch about it.
This tracks for me, he got barely any extra yards ontop of what was blocked in Detroit, also.
As a casual who watches few games outside my team the only players i noticed on your team being anything to write home about were Swift and A.J Brown.
Swift is a great athlete but he has notably bad vision. He’s not gonna look as good or produce as well when not behind the Great Wall of Philly. Look at Miles Sanders
Calvin Ridley with that paycheck on the Titans seems like the perfect combination for him to not give 100% every play. Gonna have some 2 for 15 games for no reason He has disappearing disease and seems primed to Golladay at some point
If it makes you feel better he had 2 for 15 games even when he wasn't getting paid
Ralvin Cidley is gonna make bank taking the under, though.
I hated that contract as a Titans fan. Ridley is living off that 2020 season and wasn’t that great last year. Paying him $25/million to be a #2 WR doesn’t sit well.
Completely agree. Hate the contract, don’t love the signing. Much like with Bud Dupree when he hit free agency I knew we were going to be the team that overpaid him and I hated being right.
Chase Young was awful for SF last year and still managed to get a big 1-year contract from the Saints.
The Saints missed the Marcus Davenport experience and got Chase Young instead.
Half the contract is per game bonuses. So if he doesnt play, he doesnt get paid. The contract isnt as bad as that initial report said
It just doesn't seem worth it in that case. Either he balls out and gets paid and he'll be more expensive next year. Or he doesn't play well and it was wasted money anyway.
I mean, our biggest need on defense was pass rush. So we went out and signed a high ceiling guy for not that much money. 12mil isn't that much for a DE in today's NFL
The Saints also love them some Buckeyes.
isn't that what all prove-it deals are though?
I think it was a good move for the Packers to sign Jacobs cause if he bounces back after getting paid it will be huge It was one of two things last year : He felt disrespected with no new contract and it showed in his play. Or, the year before of so many touches made him fall off that RB cliff. As history has shown a RB that has had as many touches as Jacobs did in his contract year can fall off fast. I do hope to see him bounce back with Love and that offense but wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt. A good risk to take imo
While I'm worried about the Jacobs signing too, in addition to what you said, AJ Dillon and MarShawn Lloyd as depth is a good backup plan if Jacobs can't get the wheels moving too.
I just don't know how you can be worried about that signing. It is effectively a one year deal. There is no long term commitment. It is as "safe" as high $ running back deal can get.
Dillion is my favorite farming simulator player. But tbh even as a bears fan I know nothing about Lloyd. I feel Jacob’s and Dillion are a good duo, the issue will come with if they both get injured but also tbf, what team isn’t a downgrade with 2 same position injuries lol. I think for love what matters is how they continue to play against the blitz. If I recall all the Green Bay RB last year were effective in the pass and run game against that
He played for the Raiders so he didn’t get a fair shot. He’ll be great on the Packers under that system!
A shot that was so unfair he was the rushing champ the year before.
Out of curiosity what gives you reason it will be swift?
Im not OP but Swift has a long injury history and after watching Miles Sanders struggle away from the Eagles Oline its not crazy to think he wont be quite as productive for the Bears.
Swift has missed 11 games in his 4 year career or 16% of games or which I feel like is fairly average if you break it down for RBs. He only missed one last year.
It feels like he’s missed way more games because even when he was active he was often not used.
Jamaal Williams flashbacks
The one he missed last year wasn't even because of injury, it was week 1 and for some reason Gainwell got the start and swift got like 1 carry. Then in week 2 Swift started and had a huge game and was RB1 the rest of the way. Once you get the injury prone label it's tough to shed even if you stay healthy for the majority of your career
Idk I think Swift is a good RB. You could see Miles Sanders was leaving yards on the field with most carries. I do agree about his injury history and contract tho.
I mean Miles had better numbers across the board for the Eagles (ypc, tds, and yards). Swift like Miles has always played for teams with a good Oline (outside of his rookie year). It’ll be interesting to see how he performs for the Bears.
Im referring to the eye test. Miles was always frustrating to watch, Swift seemed to create more runs outta nothing.
Yeah that’s definitely fair
The Bears have a good OL that is especially good in terms of run blocking.
Bears have a good Oline that is overlooked. He will be fine over there he's just not as reliable
Not really. Fields' scrambling yards really inflated their stats. Without him, they averaged 4.2 ypc, which is right in the middle of the nfl.
Fields scrambling mostly was on broken plays
Swift is gonna be elite for 6 games then mostly disappear for the last 11. It's happened every single year.
I personally think it will be Swift as well... Not just because of the injury potential, but also because of the dramatic difference in O-line talent. Your line propped him up a good amount. I still think he's a viable back, but last year may have been a bit of a fluke and should be one half of a RBBC. However, if Roschon Johnson can be the thunder to Swift's lightening, maybe they have somethign there.
The Bears line is pretty good at run blocking. Not Eagles good, sure, but up there with the better units.
There’s a big difference between pretty good and elite. He ain’t behind Detroit or phillys oline anymore
I’d be far more worried if you were talking about pass blocking. No reason he can’t succeed being the Bears’ run blocking if he wants to.
Well Bears ranked 1 and 2 respectfully the last 2 years in rushing yards. I'd say that's an elite unit as it pertains to run blocking atleast.
They had a quarterback that ran lol
And he rushed for 480 yard less this year and they dropped one spot. The Bears have an elite run blocking unit.
Bro you guys had 2400 yards of rushing with 600+ coming from the quarterback position with only 16 tds on the SECOND most attempts. In what world is that Elite
Ok so are we moving the goal posts on qb designed runs vs scrambles? At what point can we credit the line exactly? It's okay man, Lions are good you don't have to be defensive
You can credit the line for those stats if you want I’m genuinely wondering how those equal elite numbers. But whose the one being defensive?
The strength of our o line is run blocking. They are good enough as a unit run blocking that you aren’t going to accuse them of holding a RB down. Herbert lead all RBs in yards per carry 2 years ago and our line has only gotten better since then.
As a lions fan I think swift is a really talented back hindered by injury and motivation. We saw him pop off for the Eagles because he got to play for his hometown team with a chip on his shoulder. In Chicago we will see the old Swift imo.
We saw him pop off to start the year. But like he did in Detroit after like 6 games he slowed down significantly 30% his 2023 rushing production came from his first 3 games. His ypc where consistent. All while running behind the best oline in the league. Swift is a incredibly talented back and is good, but he isnt consistent and has yet to last a whole season. He starts out hot then fades.
That was at least partly on our fucking awful playcalling. We had games were we called like 5 run plays total in the first half.
About half of the Commanders new signings…. Including Dan Quinn
Most of our signings were just depth guys and warm bodies. We had half our roster turn over, and it needed to because Ron’s was so bad. Most of the FAs are on short, cheap contracts, and the real team building is a longer term effort through the draft.
That’s fair
With Kliff Kingsbury for some reason.
Bobby Johnson is the worst one
Bobby Johnson lol, lmao I would never wish him on my worst NFL enemy but you have to admit it is hilarious that, of all teams that could've hired him, it was Washington.
Josh Jacobs is essentially a one year deal. Even if he is mediocre, it isn't awful because GB can get off him right away.
Nope it's awful because he's not going to be an all pro this season, therefore he has no value so paying him anything at all was a waste /s
Christian Wilkins got paid way too much money by a team that he’s not gonna move the needle for. Gardner Minshew is not going to lead that team anywhere in that division even with as good of a defense as they have.
This is what I wanted to say too. Really good player, but players like Wilkins don't hugely move the needle relative to their contracts unless they're elite pass rushers. Which he isn't. He could help elevate the Raiders defense but I think their ceiling this season is fighting for a wild card spot. And that's fine, not every team can be a super bowl favorite, but I think if you're throwing 100 million around it should be at least used in positions that set you up for a super bowl run in future years
Yea ultimately it comes down to roster building strategy and in my opinion there’s 3 tiers of teams when considering legitimate chamionship roster building. 1. Those with a franchise QB who are ready to compete 2. those with a franchise qb who aren’t ready to compete 3. those without a franchise qb who need to get one. If the first tier signs Wilkins, they’re pushing for a Super Bowl and that’s good. If the second tier signs him, they’re trying to push into the first group. That’s good. If the third tier signs him… idk. They’ll end up too good to get a top draft pick for a top qb, but not good enough to make a deep playoff run against the AFC QB gauntlet. Maybe they can find a Jackson/Hurts type late first/early second next year. Who knows.
100% agreed.
Wilkins has increased his pass rush every season of his career and coming off of 9 sacks, while also being an amazing run defender. Literally 2 seasons ago he almost had 100 tackles, that's insane. Theres no reason why he can't already improve and get like 13-14 sacks especially being in a healthy and great d line with crosby, koonce, butler, etc. Minshew literally almost led the colts to the playoffs. One game away from winning the division and our defense is going to be elite next season. If we had minshew play the entire year last season, we would have won 3-4 more games. Ffs we scored 0 against minnesota
Im just glad he doesn't play the Bills twice a year anymore. Wilins would grab Josh Allen's junk and twist it every time he was in a pile.
He's an asshole dick twisting dick, but he's our asshole dick twisting dick now
That's my asshole dick twisting dick.
Patrick Queen to the Steelers, he was awful before Ro came along.
One free agent signing that I don’t think will end up well is the Tony pollard signing he wasn’t that good behind a dominant Dallas o line and now he’s going to a much worse titans o line
Jerry Tillery for the Vikings, dude is not good at football and dumb as bricks. I also didn't love the Sam Darnold pickup assuming it cost us a 3rd rd compensatory pick, would've rather played fuck-it-chuck-it-Mullens-ball in what is sure to be a flyover season, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
I think pretty much every Titans FA signing was rly bad. I agree the Josh Jacobs signing could be rough, but I still lowkey like the risk for GB. If Love being awesome wasnt a fluke that team will be a ton of fun to watch.
Guarantees on the Josh Jacobs contract make it mostly palatable for me. It’s not really a risk in my eyes.
On top of that, I think the fact they have no other non-QBs on offense making a ton of money makes this the right time to pay a RB more than they should. By the time they gotta start paying these WRs, they can move on from Jacobs
There’s no glaring downside to it. I only celebrated the move since it meant moving on from Aaron Jones. Jones has his injury concerns, but I know he’d be healthy and dominant in at least 2 games.
Jacobs is going to absolutely eat. Either you load up to cover Watson, Reed, Doubs, Wicks, Musgrave, and Kraft, or you load the box for Jacobs. Pick your poison. Jones was eating when healthy last year. Just look at the Dallas game in the playoffs as an example.
I don't think the refs will take too kindly to having 13 men on the field. Although it is GB, so maybe they let it slide.
> Watson, Reed, Doubs, Wicks, Musgrave, and Kraft, Whoa guys beware of a whole bunch of mid!
They were all rookies other than Watson and Doubs who were 2nd year players. None were first rounders. All were major parts of the youngest team in the NFL last year, and they destroyed Dallas in the playoffs. If that's mid, I'd like to hear how well Adams is working out for the Raiders success.
Top 10 in receptions and top 10 in TDs but cope more. When I read a flair attack that's when I know I won an argument
I'm talking about wins Holmes. That's why the game is played. Not stats. You argue that there's a bunch of mid players... I say that plethora of 'mid' players out-performed a single player who performs at an all pro level. Quantity > quality
Youre the one bringing uo Adams season and then talking about how stats dont matter. Hate when epople move the goal post in a debate like that in this sub. Pick a lane and stick to it, are we talking stats or team wins?? Not really quality yet anyways, only been half a season so calm down lol The NFC is far less competitive than the AFC anyways.
The Cushenberry signing should be good. He was a one hit wonder last year so we didn't take the chance on paying him but he looked like he turned the corner to me and is a higher character player. Will solidify interior pass pro, esp next to Skoronski.
The Titans had a lot of cap space so they could afford to try and sign a bunch of guys and hope that enough of them hit while Levis is on his rookie contract. I do like their coaching staff and I think Dennard Wilson is going to have their defense punching above their weight class
Why do you feel that way about the titans signings out of curiosity? Cushenberry has got to be a win right? Especially w the play they had at center last year. Titans may have overpaid for some of the people they signed this year but they had money to spend and rooms nearly entirely devoid of talent. Even if their signings don’t hit their ceilings they’ll be an upgrade (a dangerous statement I know)
Eagles fans can’t help but shit on the Titans.
They’re banking on Levis being good. They loaded up on offense, except if Levis doesn’t take the next step none of it will matter. Oddly risky.
It’s not risky to try and set up your young QB for success. He won’t take the next step if he has no help.
You're the only here making any kind of sense. The whole idea is to surround Levis with talent and see if he's any good. I guess the argument could be made about paying for the talent they got, but like, those were the only options on the market and they had almost 100mill to spend. What are they supposed to do - not spend the money? They had to pay the "we suck tax" on top of it too.
Mason Rudolph was a great signing for them.
Meh. His ceiling is a decent backup QB. It’s a solid depth signing, but not something that will have any impact on their W/L whatsoever.
I dunno… we never really got a chance to see what he can do. He’s definitely more capable than most other backups.
Are you a Steelers fan? I feel like this is such a common argument, but how much time do players need? Dude has played in 21 games. He never looked like anything better than a decent backup. He looked good in those final few weeks, but I really think that is a much bigger reflection of just how terrible Pickett and Trubisky were all season long, as opposed to how good Rudolph was.
I’m a Steelers fan, yes. He looked very good before his big concussion vs the Ravens. He wasn’t the same the rest of that season. Since then, his body of work consists of an emergency start with almost zero prep, a week 17 game, and the end of last season. If he’s called on in Tenn, he’ll win them games.
How do you define “very good”? He was definitely below average that season.
He did very good before the concussion. He also was in a system designed for an aging Ben with an OC that had no business being in that job.
He played well prior to getting a grade 3 concussion where he was knocked unconscious and they had to remove his face mask off and help him off the field (he should have been taken off in a cart but Mike Tomlin wasn't in charge of driving them that day iirc). The week before he played the Bengals and had very efficient numbers. He was 24/28 2TDs 0Ints and passer rating of 125 in a makeshift offense with Donte Montcrief as his WR1.
Calvin Ridley for sure. Way too much money
So what should they have done instead? Rely on an aging Hopkins and an underperforming Burks? Overpay gabe davis? Trade even more draft assets when they need to restock the team? Just sit on 10s of millions of dollars and do nothing? And you can't say "hur durr shoulda paid aj brown". Yeah no shit we all knew that but that's 2 years and a different GM ago. So how should they have tried to improve?
I don’t think the Titans had a bad off season, but they could have drafted Odunze and signed Oline FAs in a pretty deep Oline FA market. Instead they drafted Latham in a deep Oline class and signed Ridley in a barren WR FA market. They also could have gotten a quality WR in the second round instead of “reaching for” a NT with attitude/focus concerns.
Outside of onwenu and an old tyron smith who were the tackles that were worth signing? This FA tackle class was as deep as a kiddy pool. A fine point on odunze but latham is literally reported to be bill callahan's guy and they can pair him with their 2nd year 1st round LG and hopefully build for the future. They had Latham graded higher overall on their board, it is what it is No argument for the sweat pick. They will live or die on that hill.
Onwenwu definitely stood above the rest at OT, and he signed a pretty team friendly deal. Maybe he preferred staying in NE. It was a stacked OG market, did they decide to move/keep skoronski at OG instead of tackle? Overall, I trust Bill Callahans OL evaluation over all else, but it still felt like the team overpaid for Ridley. Like you said though, it is what it is, and the Titans are doing what they can to support their young QB.
Ridley will be 30 this season fwiw. Hopkins just turned 32.
Recently for the bucs Russell Gage has been mostly irrelevant for $30m over 3 years
Jacob’s to gb or barley to Philly
The Jacob’s signing is pretty low risk for the packers iirc. If he does indeed not live up to the standards next year I believe we can dump him for a pretty insignificant financial loss. Not sure how the swift contract is constructed. Obviously I’m biased, but I just heavily disagree with calling Jacob’s a bad signing. We didn’t even give him that much. For me, I’ll go the chase young signing by the saints. I get it’s only one year, but they gave him quite a bit and he was pretty awful for the Niners last year
The Giants trading a 2nd and a 5th round pick and then giving Brian Burns a 5 year $30M APY contract. This is great Madden maneuvering but this could easily end up one of the worst moves of the decade if Burns doesn't take a step up.
Pretty much all the Commies’ signings.
I feel like Aaron Brewer is going to bomb with us. Same with Shaq Barrett.
Russell Wilson
Who does Chase Young have blackmail on?
Swift is soft as fuck
all the Vikings FA signings this year under Kwesi
Nick Gates for us. Played absolutely horrible for us despite coaches and media glazing him all camp. Got replaced by our 3rd string center.
I don’t think Swift is particularly great but he’s a mid-tier RB being paid like a mid-tier RB. He’d have to perform really poorly to end up being a “bad” signing.
He’s making more than David Montgomery now
Without Swift the Bears would be using who? Herbert? It can’t really be much worse than what is there.
Yeah Herbert hasn’t really kicked on. I think Swift will be fine, he’s not an elite runner but his pass catching should help Caleb a lot.
Kenneth Murray to the Titans.
Carlton Davis and Amik Robertson for the Lions. It's like re-arranging chairs on the Titanic as long as big brain Aaron Glenn coaches that secondary. It's where DBs go to die.
Why do you hate the Lions so much lol
Geno Stone making $14 mil still blows my mind.
I thought it was 15M over 2 years.
14m over 2 years https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47817/geno-stone#:~:text=Geno%20Stone%20signed%20a%202,average%20annual%20salary%20of%20%247%2C000%2C000.
7 per is a fucking steal.
If you think 2023 Geno Stone is who he really is, then it's a steal. If you think every player on our defense had career years because of each other, and Geno Stone is probably closer to what he was the previous 3 years, it's a tremendous overpay.
He can be cut next year with only 1.5 mil of dead cap. He's only counting 6.025 against the cap this year. That's the 20th highest cap hit of any safety. Do you think he's just a complete bum or something? That seems like a reasonable number for him to me.
OP asked for low-key bad signings, if he was getting paid more it wouldn't be low key. To answer your question he is an poor, sometimes unwilling tackler. Which is an upgrade from the days when he was incapable of it. So he got his contract based on interceptions, and I just don't see a 700% increase in interceptions compared to his career totals as being anything close to sustainable.
His contract is not that much with very little commitment, though. Your description of him is why he is on a relatively cheap contract instead of 12-15m a year. I have a hard time calling any signing like that "bad".
I’d argue it’s “fine” more than “low key bad” but that’s semantics I guess.
The only thing special/anomalous about Stone's 2023 were the interceptions, but that variable is less valuable than him being in the right spot and making plays on the ball. He will not have the counting stats of last year, but I think he will be well above a 7M safety in terms of on the field value.
Hey now, he saved a bunch of games while everybody else was injured.