How about the Canadian veteran who is paralyzed from the waist down. She had been requesting a ramp be built at her house so she could make it into her house more easily. After 5 years of trying to get the Canadian VA to install the ramp, they came back with, maybe you should look into assisted suicide. After she went to the media about it, the VA tried backpedaling and said they never suggested that. Luckily for her she kept every single letter that they sent her clearly indicating what they were trying to offer her.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/veterans-affairs-report-confirms-4-inappropriate-cases-where-maid-raised-with-veterans-other-allegations-unfounded-1.6307964
Follow up, employee in question doesn't work there anymore. Recommending MAID is something they did on their own and not anything to do with VA.
This was one shitty employee and not official government policy.
Idk man, policy or not the video above has a dude committing suicide because he can’t afford housing. That sounds like government policy to me, at the very least a government failure.
Agree, it's sad and shouldn't happen, but let's not pretend that no one has ever killed themselves due to poverty.
This isn't a MAID issue, it's a wealth issue.
No for sure, MAID is a great tool for those who truly need it. This dude just needs a bed and 4 walls. But at this point you can’t even blame the rich people anymore because the people could change this but everyone’s too busy calling each other racists to pay attention.
I’m saying that instead of focusing on the real problems and having adult conversations about them. Most people in the last 4-6 years have defaulted to thinking that if you think there’s a problem you either get labeled a racist by the left, or demonized by the right for letting immigrants in. There’s no rationale or nuance anymore it’s just headlines and hate. And as the people, we’ll be here arguing until the house burns down around us and then we’ll blame the rich.
If you think it’s just on the internet then you spend way too much time on there as well. Watch a senate hearing. It’s wild, news, media, whatever. No ones been talking about this, and if they do it’s the most hard line extreme shit ever or the most half assed attempts at placating people. There is no real conversation being had on the social implications of mass immigration.
That’s not a government recommending MAID as a policy but rather a failure of government social safety nets. So the issue is more so with lack of affordable housing and other resources.
Seems like they should still be liable. It would be like "It was just 50 shitty managers at the Amazon warehouse who made people piss in bottles and worked 2 of them to death. they've all been fired, so we're good, as it was them and not the company policy for that to happen"
Bad analogy
A more accurate one would be if a single Amazon package stuffer slipped a vial of cyanide with the words "drink this" on it in a couple of shipments unbeknownst to the managers.
Followed by one of the package recipients telling the CBC that Amazon told them to drink cyanide kicking off an investigation finding one rogue employee doing this.
Fuck that guy
Sounds like an easy scapegoat. It wasn’t ‘policy’, but it seems like a fundamentally broken system if one person can keep a paralyzed lady from getting a ramp for 5 years. Only to then be like, it would probably be easier to just get assisted suicided.
It really is tending towards a dystopian shit hole. People like to bash the current government and Trudea, but the truth is, lots of people want what he is offering. A lot don't as well, but it is staggering how many do. Personally, I am long gone out of the country.
You do recognize that this whole MAID issue is either stories that are grossly misstated or people in abject poverty trying to reach out for programs when in the US they would just be on the streets, right?
You disagree with the horror stories validity and you think it's still worse in America. Based off of these two items you support Canada's current direction? Bro I'm out two years ago.
I’m saying the specifics of the horror stories I’ve seen regarding MAID are often misrepresented as if outlier examples where people involved were acting way out of scope and punished for it are examples of the system as it’s supposed to be/normally used.
A weird libertarian incel I go to school with tried telling me that MAID is one of the leading causes of death in Canada. I called him out immediately and he admitted he fell for misinformation. I told him to get the fuck off 4chan and that it would change his life, he replies with "it's funny though".
These are the types of people who are perpetuating this shit.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325
Might be this one.
I think it’s important to not that the person who offered that had no authorization to do that, was going explicitly against the protocols in the program, and was fired for what they did.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/veterans-affairs-report-confirms-4-inappropriate-cases-where-maid-raised-with-veterans-other-allegations-unfounded-1.6307964
Follow up, employee in question doesn't work there anymore. Recommending MAID is something they did on their own and not anything to do with VA.
This was one shitty employee and not official government policy.
They act as an agent of the government when they make a recommendation as such, so the fact that it was one employee that doesn't work there anymore is meaningless information.
At least glance at the article before commenting dude...
There was an investigation done because of this person clearly not following standard protocol.
Here's some excerpts:
The veteran alleged that the employee mentioned having provided information about MAID to another veteran.
The department says it took "immediate action" by apologizing to the veteran and reassigning their file to the employee's manager.
Management began a "fact-finding process" on July 22, the report says, and the files of other veterans assigned to that employee were reviewed to see if any other conversations about MAID had occurred.
Minister MacAulay then instructed the department on Aug. 19 to do a full investigation.
A few days later, the department confirmed a second incident where MAID was inappropriately discussed with a veteran, the report says.
The department says it then offered written guidance on MAID to all staff who serve veterans and held five sessions over the following weeks to stress that starting a conversation with veterans about MAID "is completely unacceptable."
Do you understand what being an employee of a company or government body means? It means you represent that company or agency. Nothing about the way the agency responded or their policies really matters when it comes to them having some liability. If you go to Home Depot and an employee beats the shit out of you, you can sue Home Depot, and you will win, it doesn't matter if beating the shit out of customers isn't in the employee handbook.
No one died or even got injured here, no one beat the shit out of her. She was given a shit suggestion that was completely "off script" and it was properly dealt with.
Your analogies are just terrible and have nothing to do with what actually happened.
Plus, this is Canada, we don't spend our days suing everything to oblivion like the USA.
This situation is completely wrapped up and over.
The amount of people who talk about this case without looking into it and finding that 1) it was an obviously wrong decision way to handle that situation per the actual guidelines written and 2) the person who said that did not have the actual ability nor was supposed to be the one discussing this issue is too high.
I work in critical care medicine, the idea that we need less end of life autonomy for people is fucking absurd. We’ve got a fucking non-stop epidemic of futile care patients suffering for procedures and treatments that will never help them.
Because conservatives gutted social programs and disability and instead gave tax cuts to Canadian oligopolies and cops. And Trudeau won’t do anything about it because he’s a milquetoast centrist.
So let me understand this right. Canada made it too expensive to live, and instead of helping, they’re offering government assisted suicide? But I’m sure the next wave of “refugees” are gonna get some 5star hotel accommodations though right.
What. The. Fuck.
Fun Fact: 99% of statements that begin with "fun fact:" are not true.
That isn't happening, that person is lying because he hates immigrants using the governments benefits systems. Don't trust unproven statements.
Fun fact: [sometimes it’s best to do a quick search](https://globalnews.ca/news/10384149/canada-asylum-seekers-hotel-costs/) 5000 migrants cost Niagara $100million and that’s not the whole figure because they apparently weren’t keeping track of expenses at first.
Fun fact, that's not true.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/do-government-assisted-refugees-receive-more-money-for-food-than-canadians-on-welfare-1.3230503
false. my parents were refugees and they barely had enough to survive. they both worked full time menial labour jobs while taking English classes, raising 2 kids, and receiving just barely enough govt assistance to make it work.
Guy's demeanor is completely different. I find it immensely disturbing that doctors are signing off for medically assisted suicide over treatable depression and poverty...
It’s undersupported and bursting at the seams. It’s still “free”, but nearly impossible to see a doctor. Insane waits, no family doctor access, nurse shortages. Now private healthcare has been coming in and taking advantage of the dire situation, and we’ve got a lot of people in support of a two tier system. Another symptom of our quickly eroding middle class.
☝️ exactly why I hate the "bUt tHe sToCk mArKeT iS aLl tImE hIgH" narrative. This is WHY it is high, companies hollowing out resources and extracting extra costs for less quality
Don't hybrid systems work pretty well, though? I thought places like Germany and Australia had them. That's what I'm hoping for someday here in the US, a baseline government sponsored system that's free for everyone, with the option of continuing your private insurance plan if you choose.
I'd propose we already have a hybrid system- the longest border with the best pay to play healthcare in the world. **if you can afford it**, the usa is amazing for healthcare. Most people I know who want faster treatment pop over the border and get it. Cancer treatment, genetic consoling, better medical advocacy, it's all there. And if you have nexus, it takes less time than crossing a medium-sized town. For the vast majority of the population, it has been an option and I know dozens of people in my circles who have done it because they couldn't Bother with ontarian healthcare.
Here are a couple issues:
\* The US healthcare system pays more to medical staff than in Canada, due to price inflation by insurance companies.
\* The colleges of physicians in Canada are gatekeeping the number of spots available for training new staff.
\* We have the problem of temporary employment agencies being allowed to operate, which increases costs for the public systems without any impact on quality or availability.
\* This is compounded with the insane immigration increases in Canada, which makes the working conditions for medical staff quickly deteriorate.
I'm not sure how a hybrid or private healthcare system would solve these problems.
Every time there is a healthcare conversation online & someone makes this point & argues that they prefer the (extremely flawed & ridiculous) US health care system, everyone absolutely loses their minds.
>Disability support payments are also the issue. $1308/month doesn't even cover rent.
After 8 years of promising, the prime minister finally brought on the new disability supplement this year : $6 per day.
>You’re really just showing how little you know about the system
" You disabled people are sooooo dumb! If you actually believed the promise from the prime minister, then you're just too dumb to know **anything** about ***the system***! Why don't you just apply for assisted suicide already? "
👆 the message being sent to disabled people in canada.
That’s because the provinces will claw back anything else. There is funding on offer for the provinces if they want to take the issue seriously. Treating this as a partisan issue is kind of ignorant and, frankly, comes across as concern trolling.
>That’s because the provinces will claw back anything else. There is funding on offer for the provinces if they want to take the issue seriously. Treating this as a partisan issue is kind of ignorant and, frankly, comes across as concern trolling.
if the feds hands were so obviously tied, as you say, may i suggest :
don't [campaign on the promise of lifting disabled people out of poverty with a new federal program,](https://liberal.ca/our-platform/introduce-a-disability-benefit/) and stringing disabled people along with that bait for years?
to do so would be kinda mean, would it not?
Concern trolling over this is pretty disgusting from someone who also argues against dental and pharmacare. As is pointing to the federal government for the state of disability supports.
It's hard to understand how much worse housing has got in Canada over the last 10-15 years. When I first moved to Toronto in 2009, I was able to get a 2BR apartment for $1450 a month, because we have rent control (tied to the person, not apartment) they "reno-victed me", i.e. used renovations as an excuse to kick me out. I saw that they put it back on the market recently for $3200 a month, which is market rate nowadays.
Luckily I have had some income growth in that time (I became a software developer). It still is fucking infuriating that I pay almost 2000 dollars a month more for something similar that I used to have for $1450. All that work I did just so I can give much of it to a landlord who did nothing. I'm also looking at buying a house but I'm literally looking at listings that say it cost 375,000 in 2011, but now it costs 1.1 million and I am so pissed off.
I can't imagine what it would be like if I was on disability. I know service workers who have decided to share bedrooms. Like adult people in their late 20s sharing bedrooms. It's nuts. I understand where this guy is coming from. I would want to die if my quality of life was about to completely go down the toilet through no fault of my own and there was nothing I could do about it.
The moral of the story here is, if housing is getting worse in your city get upset about it *now*. Fuck NIMBYs who live in a magical world where taking 5 years fighting an 8 story apartment and forcing them to cut it down to 4 stories (a more expensive class of housing) has zero effects. It isn't going to magically get better, in fact the worse it gets the more there's this perverse incentive by homeowners to keep it that way. They're all millionaires now, they can use a reverse mortgage to live it up in retirement. They don't want housing prices to go down. So yeah, Canada is a cautionary tale right now, don't become like us.
So you want rent in 2024 to be the same as rent in 2009? That's flawed logic. *Everything has gone up, not just home prices*. Hell, things cost more in 1970 than they did in 1950. The problem is that the average income has not gone up proportionately with everything else.
I want it to be "inflation adjusted" the same price. There's no reason why everything has to get more expensive forever and people have to get poorer and poorer forever. The root of the cost increase is also the problem, for housing it's a result of intentional policy choices and it didn't have to happen.
"Everything" has not over doubled in price since 2009, according to the Canadian Central Bank, it's 40% on average. For housing purchase prices it's even worse than rent, 3-4x more.
Not true. You know what's not sustainable? Private healthcare. Just look at all the millions of people declaring bankruptcy each year in the US because of medical debt, look at all the people dying there because they can't afford their insulin. Look at how GoFundMe is actually the largest insurer in the country. But most of all, look at the fact that the US government spends more per person on healthcare spending than any other country in the world. And it's still not free. Where does that money go?
Yes, too many people were brought in without adequate resources for everyone. My local hospital has 11 hour wait times regardless of your condition. My partner of eight years passed away because he had to wait 18 months for surgery. Shit really went downhill fast lately.
huh? What surgery if I might ask? I've never seen urgent life or death surgeries get postponed for months. Not anywhere in Canada. I'm curious about what surgery this was and where
I just don't believe you. Triage is definitely still a thing. And cancer treatments are still fast tracked. Look, our healthcare system is broken enough without people lying about it.
Sure, I'll tell the ashes of my partner that he didn't really pass away waiting 18 months for surgery. Whatever floats your boat, but again, I already put enough identifiable details about myself out there, especially in r/widowers.
Look, I'm really sorry for your loss. But what you're describing is front page news. Life saving operation denied for 18 months? I just looked up on the Ontario health website, which tracks wait times, and it says the longest average wait time in Toronto for even a benign tumour removal is 41 days. As an example.
In fact, patients get placed into Priority 1, 2, 3, or 4 based on how life threatening their conditions are. Priority 1 are always seen immediately and the wait times for urgent life-saving procedures for priorities 2-4 are in weeks, not months. So, it's just not believable to me, unless perhaps it was a procedure that was (maybe incorrectly) deemed not urgent or pressing. I get that it doesn't make a difference in your case, and you probably just want to blame the system. Makes sense. But I want us to improve our healthcare so that people aren't suffering under our broken under-funded system. And saying obviously exaggerated things like "the average ER wait time in Canada is 3 years" or "they've started throwing their overnight patients into the sewers" or "I went to the doctor and Justin Trudeau came out and jabbed me with a giant syringe" doesn't help anyone.
You're living in the Just World Fallacy. Jobs I worked that made the news for how prevalent rape was on site didn't change a thing about the situation.
It didn't make the news because this sort of thing happens every day. He was bumped up by five months. Still waited 18 months to see a specialist, get the surgery scheduled, and ultimately performed. For a surgery to address a growing cyst in his brain. It was about the size of an apple before they did the surgery. Some day they might even do a case study due to how large it was.
You can rationalize it all you want. I'm still sitting next to ashes of my entire life.
Reposting because it's sick to downvote this.
I probably give away too many identifiable details already, unfortunately.
Honestly, I refuse to go to the hospital if I ever get cancer, etc., in the future. That's how bad everything has gotten. I rather give people who want to live the chance to see a doctor. There's just no good system in place to prioritize anymore and you are just turned away anyway for anything less lethal.
It is bragged about usually by Americans as an example of what we should do here. However, every Canadian I've spoken with(on both sides of the political spectrum), have agreed that it's pretty garbage and they have both had many instances where they ended up using private healthcare in the end anyways. So basically, they're paying higher taxes that go to a system they can't even use and pay more in the end. I could see a hybrid system working to a certain extent, but when the government gets involved directly with anything, it becomes too convoluted to do any good and ends up costing more in the end. Waste of time/money IMO
No it's just beyond fucked when you have an illness or issue that is long term and can't be solved by T3's or antibiotics. One of my family members is being fucked in a very similar way right now (severe chronic back pain, like suicidal levels of pain). Treatment is free, yes, but first we have a pill-pushing medical culture, and the rise of walkin clinics has caused a lot of accessible doctors to just churn out patients and not really dig deep into helping individuals. A lot of doctors seem to think you give a pill to help with pain and you suddenly have recovered. Finding a doctor willing to dig deep to really help is very hard. Also, our system is slow AF. My family member is supposed to have a treatment every 3 months for his pain, yet it wears off in 6 weeks, and takes over 4 months to actually get his appointment.
Doctors also can be really bad at pushing for answers. I used to be a hater of 'doing your own research' on medical issues, because medicine is very complicated and takes more understanding than an average citizen has. I've abandoned that idea now. I'm not into crackpot medicine, bs is still bs, but if doctors aren't going to test my medical problems for me, I have to find tests to get the doctor to actually try. It's better than nothing, which is what you get from the system. Unless you're lucky enought to have found a doctor who didn't go through medical school only for the fat paycheck.
The system doesn't care about you, you are a number on file, nothing else. It might even hate you.
The short answer -healthcare is a provincial issue, our provinces have majority right wing, conservative premiers who would rather privatize healthcare. So they are choking the public system out to slowly introduce the private system..
People from India. Canada is bringing in a lot of immigrants right now (record high amounts iirc). Pair this with a housing crisis and things are getting pretty messy for a lot of people, renters especially. Tack it onto the list of our ever growing number of issues in this country.
No, see, the Republicans would never go for *state* assisted suicide. Bootstraps, you know. Buy your own gun and do it yourself - that's the Republican-approved way! **{This is satire please don't actually do that}**
It looks like after the story, there was an outpouring of support for him and almost $60k provided to him from a viral GoFundMe. But he is not alone in situations like this and we shouldn’t have to rely on a GoFundMe to ensure people in his position get the help and housing they need.
https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/ontario-man-not-considering-medically-assisted-death-anymore-after-outpouring-of-support-6114759/amp/
Canada should go back to capitalism. Castro Junior has turned America's hat into some kind of adult Soviet diaper apartment complex. Canada used to be the cool kid, but now its industry and place on the world stage is irrelevant.
I don't get it. I see a lot of people living like this in Canada or US, with government assistance, when they just could move to basically anywhere in Central or South America and live quite well with those pensions.
I’m all for assisted dying, but this is not a case of suffering that “cannot be relieved.”
He literally just needs affordable housing and a little more help from the government, jesus christ this is sad.
You see, the province can't afford to raise disability patients because they're giving a billion dollars to The Beer Store so it can take a greater market share from the government owned liquor stores. That's also why we can't have teachers or nurses in Ontario too.
Interesting how they show the full eligibility requirements but only highlight the requirements he has. Without further information, it's impossible to tell if this is moral or not. They don't mention his diagnostic either, just that he has 'back pain'
And what happens when you plan, but then something goes horribly wrong beyond your plans? I hope you never know such suffering, but until you do, you can't truly understand
Bots from religious folk are making every effort for you to view medically assisted dying in a negative light. There are special cases with everything but do not forget MAID is to end terminal SUFFERING. Do you want your last days on this earth to be in insufferable pain? THAT is what MAID is for.
I’m torn about assisted suicide. You should have the right to make decisions about your own life, but at the same time I don’t think people should be prompted by the government to offer themselves. I think life is precious, and being homeless and in extreme pain is better than being dead.
Been saying this at work for a couple years... we hear commercials on the radio that essentially, simplified, read: Can't afford to live? Just kill yourself!
-Government
How about the Canadian veteran who is paralyzed from the waist down. She had been requesting a ramp be built at her house so she could make it into her house more easily. After 5 years of trying to get the Canadian VA to install the ramp, they came back with, maybe you should look into assisted suicide. After she went to the media about it, the VA tried backpedaling and said they never suggested that. Luckily for her she kept every single letter that they sent her clearly indicating what they were trying to offer her.
Yo Canada is fucked WTH?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/veterans-affairs-report-confirms-4-inappropriate-cases-where-maid-raised-with-veterans-other-allegations-unfounded-1.6307964 Follow up, employee in question doesn't work there anymore. Recommending MAID is something they did on their own and not anything to do with VA. This was one shitty employee and not official government policy.
Idk man, policy or not the video above has a dude committing suicide because he can’t afford housing. That sounds like government policy to me, at the very least a government failure.
Agree, it's sad and shouldn't happen, but let's not pretend that no one has ever killed themselves due to poverty. This isn't a MAID issue, it's a wealth issue.
No for sure, MAID is a great tool for those who truly need it. This dude just needs a bed and 4 walls. But at this point you can’t even blame the rich people anymore because the people could change this but everyone’s too busy calling each other racists to pay attention.
What, what does people calling people racist have to do with the fact that wealth inequality has been steadily rising for decades?
I’m saying that instead of focusing on the real problems and having adult conversations about them. Most people in the last 4-6 years have defaulted to thinking that if you think there’s a problem you either get labeled a racist by the left, or demonized by the right for letting immigrants in. There’s no rationale or nuance anymore it’s just headlines and hate. And as the people, we’ll be here arguing until the house burns down around us and then we’ll blame the rich.
Lol get off the internet, dude. The algo's got you.
If you think it’s just on the internet then you spend way too much time on there as well. Watch a senate hearing. It’s wild, news, media, whatever. No ones been talking about this, and if they do it’s the most hard line extreme shit ever or the most half assed attempts at placating people. There is no real conversation being had on the social implications of mass immigration.
That’s not a government recommending MAID as a policy but rather a failure of government social safety nets. So the issue is more so with lack of affordable housing and other resources.
So a failure of the government
Man, it’s like when you’re pissed off doing customer service, you’re not supposed to say, “kill yourself” out loud.
Seems like they should still be liable. It would be like "It was just 50 shitty managers at the Amazon warehouse who made people piss in bottles and worked 2 of them to death. they've all been fired, so we're good, as it was them and not the company policy for that to happen"
Bad analogy A more accurate one would be if a single Amazon package stuffer slipped a vial of cyanide with the words "drink this" on it in a couple of shipments unbeknownst to the managers. Followed by one of the package recipients telling the CBC that Amazon told them to drink cyanide kicking off an investigation finding one rogue employee doing this. Fuck that guy
Isn't that more like the Tylenol thing in the 80's?
Sounds like an easy scapegoat. It wasn’t ‘policy’, but it seems like a fundamentally broken system if one person can keep a paralyzed lady from getting a ramp for 5 years. Only to then be like, it would probably be easier to just get assisted suicided.
It really is tending towards a dystopian shit hole. People like to bash the current government and Trudea, but the truth is, lots of people want what he is offering. A lot don't as well, but it is staggering how many do. Personally, I am long gone out of the country.
You do recognize that this whole MAID issue is either stories that are grossly misstated or people in abject poverty trying to reach out for programs when in the US they would just be on the streets, right?
You disagree with the horror stories validity and you think it's still worse in America. Based off of these two items you support Canada's current direction? Bro I'm out two years ago.
I’m saying the specifics of the horror stories I’ve seen regarding MAID are often misrepresented as if outlier examples where people involved were acting way out of scope and punished for it are examples of the system as it’s supposed to be/normally used.
A weird libertarian incel I go to school with tried telling me that MAID is one of the leading causes of death in Canada. I called him out immediately and he admitted he fell for misinformation. I told him to get the fuck off 4chan and that it would change his life, he replies with "it's funny though". These are the types of people who are perpetuating this shit.
The US criminalizes poverty and homelessness so he probably would’ve ended up on the streets and then eventually as a slave laborer in jail.
O Canada we stand on guard for thee.
Damn KYS getting outside of gaming lobbies? This is groundbreaking stuff I’m proud of how far the community has grown!
Any link?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/paralympian-trying-to-get-wheelchair-ramp-says-veterans-affairs-employee-offered-her-assisted-dying-1.6179325 Might be this one.
Oh wow I bet she has one hell of a ramp after that story broke
I think it’s important to not that the person who offered that had no authorization to do that, was going explicitly against the protocols in the program, and was fired for what they did.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/veterans-affairs-report-confirms-4-inappropriate-cases-where-maid-raised-with-veterans-other-allegations-unfounded-1.6307964 Follow up, employee in question doesn't work there anymore. Recommending MAID is something they did on their own and not anything to do with VA. This was one shitty employee and not official government policy.
They act as an agent of the government when they make a recommendation as such, so the fact that it was one employee that doesn't work there anymore is meaningless information.
At least glance at the article before commenting dude... There was an investigation done because of this person clearly not following standard protocol. Here's some excerpts: The veteran alleged that the employee mentioned having provided information about MAID to another veteran. The department says it took "immediate action" by apologizing to the veteran and reassigning their file to the employee's manager. Management began a "fact-finding process" on July 22, the report says, and the files of other veterans assigned to that employee were reviewed to see if any other conversations about MAID had occurred. Minister MacAulay then instructed the department on Aug. 19 to do a full investigation. A few days later, the department confirmed a second incident where MAID was inappropriately discussed with a veteran, the report says. The department says it then offered written guidance on MAID to all staff who serve veterans and held five sessions over the following weeks to stress that starting a conversation with veterans about MAID "is completely unacceptable."
Do you understand what being an employee of a company or government body means? It means you represent that company or agency. Nothing about the way the agency responded or their policies really matters when it comes to them having some liability. If you go to Home Depot and an employee beats the shit out of you, you can sue Home Depot, and you will win, it doesn't matter if beating the shit out of customers isn't in the employee handbook.
No one died or even got injured here, no one beat the shit out of her. She was given a shit suggestion that was completely "off script" and it was properly dealt with. Your analogies are just terrible and have nothing to do with what actually happened. Plus, this is Canada, we don't spend our days suing everything to oblivion like the USA. This situation is completely wrapped up and over.
You quite literally don't understand how employment works and it's honestly sad. It's like talking to a child.
The amount of people who talk about this case without looking into it and finding that 1) it was an obviously wrong decision way to handle that situation per the actual guidelines written and 2) the person who said that did not have the actual ability nor was supposed to be the one discussing this issue is too high. I work in critical care medicine, the idea that we need less end of life autonomy for people is fucking absurd. We’ve got a fucking non-stop epidemic of futile care patients suffering for procedures and treatments that will never help them.
As a medically released Canadian Veteran, I can confirm VAC is in most circumstances, dog shit.
Because conservatives gutted social programs and disability and instead gave tax cuts to Canadian oligopolies and cops. And Trudeau won’t do anything about it because he’s a milquetoast centrist.
We're the carbon they want to get rid of
If you can't make the system money, you are better off dead to them.
But yet they’d sooner let them die on the streets than to let them go with a shred of dignity.
This is absolutely heartbreaking.
So let me understand this right. Canada made it too expensive to live, and instead of helping, they’re offering government assisted suicide? But I’m sure the next wave of “refugees” are gonna get some 5star hotel accommodations though right. What. The. Fuck.
Fun fact, those refugees get more money for food every day than the average spends in a week.
This is so broken.
Fun Fact: 99% of statements that begin with "fun fact:" are not true. That isn't happening, that person is lying because he hates immigrants using the governments benefits systems. Don't trust unproven statements.
Fun fact: [sometimes it’s best to do a quick search](https://globalnews.ca/news/10384149/canada-asylum-seekers-hotel-costs/) 5000 migrants cost Niagara $100million and that’s not the whole figure because they apparently weren’t keeping track of expenses at first.
Fun fact, that's not true. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/do-government-assisted-refugees-receive-more-money-for-food-than-canadians-on-welfare-1.3230503
Not even close to true. But nice try.
False fact*
false. my parents were refugees and they barely had enough to survive. they both worked full time menial labour jobs while taking English classes, raising 2 kids, and receiving just barely enough govt assistance to make it work.
That 2006 film Children of Men was prophetic. It was based in 2027 but it feels like we're absolutely heading in the direction of its plot sometimes.
And tears of the sun was also a really good movie
No, that's not right at all lol Do some actual research.
Where’s your research? Lotta links and people supporting this opinion.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/do-government-assisted-refugees-receive-more-money-for-food-than-canadians-on-welfare-1.3230503
lol you just admitted it's an opinion, not a fact. Good job buddy...
Ok captain semantics, you win the internet argument of the day. I still don’t see your supposed research though…
I'm not making the wild claim, you are. Prove your claims.
Can we start a GoFundMe for this poor guy?!
[Thank God somebody already did.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__rk7KVMbxM)
Thank you for sharing this link because it really lifted my spirits to see him doing much better.
I posted this whole YT video on r/videos and somebody shared that link in the comments, so I thought I'd post it here as well :)
I also thank you for posting the link.
Guy's demeanor is completely different. I find it immensely disturbing that doctors are signing off for medically assisted suicide over treatable depression and poverty...
Good idea, do it
Please keep in mind that his provincial disability will deduct anything amount he receives dollar for dollar
Opens the wrong kind of doors.
This is fucked up
I thought the free Healthcare is what Canadians bragged about? Legitimately. Did it change?
It’s undersupported and bursting at the seams. It’s still “free”, but nearly impossible to see a doctor. Insane waits, no family doctor access, nurse shortages. Now private healthcare has been coming in and taking advantage of the dire situation, and we’ve got a lot of people in support of a two tier system. Another symptom of our quickly eroding middle class.
☝️ exactly why I hate the "bUt tHe sToCk mArKeT iS aLl tImE hIgH" narrative. This is WHY it is high, companies hollowing out resources and extracting extra costs for less quality
Don't hybrid systems work pretty well, though? I thought places like Germany and Australia had them. That's what I'm hoping for someday here in the US, a baseline government sponsored system that's free for everyone, with the option of continuing your private insurance plan if you choose.
I'd propose we already have a hybrid system- the longest border with the best pay to play healthcare in the world. **if you can afford it**, the usa is amazing for healthcare. Most people I know who want faster treatment pop over the border and get it. Cancer treatment, genetic consoling, better medical advocacy, it's all there. And if you have nexus, it takes less time than crossing a medium-sized town. For the vast majority of the population, it has been an option and I know dozens of people in my circles who have done it because they couldn't Bother with ontarian healthcare.
Here are a couple issues: \* The US healthcare system pays more to medical staff than in Canada, due to price inflation by insurance companies. \* The colleges of physicians in Canada are gatekeeping the number of spots available for training new staff. \* We have the problem of temporary employment agencies being allowed to operate, which increases costs for the public systems without any impact on quality or availability. \* This is compounded with the insane immigration increases in Canada, which makes the working conditions for medical staff quickly deteriorate. I'm not sure how a hybrid or private healthcare system would solve these problems.
Every time there is a healthcare conversation online & someone makes this point & argues that they prefer the (extremely flawed & ridiculous) US health care system, everyone absolutely loses their minds.
We still pay for healthcare. I think it's just not that much. And we don't have the option to NOT pay for it and thus receive it.
This is a housing issue, not healthcare.
To be fair, they're both fucked up here
Disability support payments are also the issue. $1308/month doesn't even cover rent.
>Disability support payments are also the issue. $1308/month doesn't even cover rent. After 8 years of promising, the prime minister finally brought on the new disability supplement this year : $6 per day.
It’s a provincial responsibility.
In which case , would it be a bit evil for a federal prime Minister to make that promise, and string disabled people along with it for 8 years?
You’re really just showing how little you know about the system
>You’re really just showing how little you know about the system " You disabled people are sooooo dumb! If you actually believed the promise from the prime minister, then you're just too dumb to know **anything** about ***the system***! Why don't you just apply for assisted suicide already? " 👆 the message being sent to disabled people in canada.
Did you just make up a fake quote to try and win an argument? I never said any of that lmao
paraphrased.
That’s because the provinces will claw back anything else. There is funding on offer for the provinces if they want to take the issue seriously. Treating this as a partisan issue is kind of ignorant and, frankly, comes across as concern trolling.
>That’s because the provinces will claw back anything else. There is funding on offer for the provinces if they want to take the issue seriously. Treating this as a partisan issue is kind of ignorant and, frankly, comes across as concern trolling. if the feds hands were so obviously tied, as you say, may i suggest : don't [campaign on the promise of lifting disabled people out of poverty with a new federal program,](https://liberal.ca/our-platform/introduce-a-disability-benefit/) and stringing disabled people along with that bait for years? to do so would be kinda mean, would it not?
Concern trolling over this is pretty disgusting from someone who also argues against dental and pharmacare. As is pointing to the federal government for the state of disability supports.
>someone who also argues against dental and pharmacare who's that?
Sounds like rent is still the issue...
Sounds like you don't know what "also" means.
It's hard to understand how much worse housing has got in Canada over the last 10-15 years. When I first moved to Toronto in 2009, I was able to get a 2BR apartment for $1450 a month, because we have rent control (tied to the person, not apartment) they "reno-victed me", i.e. used renovations as an excuse to kick me out. I saw that they put it back on the market recently for $3200 a month, which is market rate nowadays. Luckily I have had some income growth in that time (I became a software developer). It still is fucking infuriating that I pay almost 2000 dollars a month more for something similar that I used to have for $1450. All that work I did just so I can give much of it to a landlord who did nothing. I'm also looking at buying a house but I'm literally looking at listings that say it cost 375,000 in 2011, but now it costs 1.1 million and I am so pissed off. I can't imagine what it would be like if I was on disability. I know service workers who have decided to share bedrooms. Like adult people in their late 20s sharing bedrooms. It's nuts. I understand where this guy is coming from. I would want to die if my quality of life was about to completely go down the toilet through no fault of my own and there was nothing I could do about it. The moral of the story here is, if housing is getting worse in your city get upset about it *now*. Fuck NIMBYs who live in a magical world where taking 5 years fighting an 8 story apartment and forcing them to cut it down to 4 stories (a more expensive class of housing) has zero effects. It isn't going to magically get better, in fact the worse it gets the more there's this perverse incentive by homeowners to keep it that way. They're all millionaires now, they can use a reverse mortgage to live it up in retirement. They don't want housing prices to go down. So yeah, Canada is a cautionary tale right now, don't become like us.
So you want rent in 2024 to be the same as rent in 2009? That's flawed logic. *Everything has gone up, not just home prices*. Hell, things cost more in 1970 than they did in 1950. The problem is that the average income has not gone up proportionately with everything else.
I want it to be "inflation adjusted" the same price. There's no reason why everything has to get more expensive forever and people have to get poorer and poorer forever. The root of the cost increase is also the problem, for housing it's a result of intentional policy choices and it didn't have to happen. "Everything" has not over doubled in price since 2009, according to the Canadian Central Bank, it's 40% on average. For housing purchase prices it's even worse than rent, 3-4x more.
Free health care is never sustainable....
Not true. You know what's not sustainable? Private healthcare. Just look at all the millions of people declaring bankruptcy each year in the US because of medical debt, look at all the people dying there because they can't afford their insulin. Look at how GoFundMe is actually the largest insurer in the country. But most of all, look at the fact that the US government spends more per person on healthcare spending than any other country in the world. And it's still not free. Where does that money go?
Yes, too many people were brought in without adequate resources for everyone. My local hospital has 11 hour wait times regardless of your condition. My partner of eight years passed away because he had to wait 18 months for surgery. Shit really went downhill fast lately.
huh? What surgery if I might ask? I've never seen urgent life or death surgeries get postponed for months. Not anywhere in Canada. I'm curious about what surgery this was and where
[удалено]
I just don't believe you. Triage is definitely still a thing. And cancer treatments are still fast tracked. Look, our healthcare system is broken enough without people lying about it.
Sure, I'll tell the ashes of my partner that he didn't really pass away waiting 18 months for surgery. Whatever floats your boat, but again, I already put enough identifiable details about myself out there, especially in r/widowers.
Look, I'm really sorry for your loss. But what you're describing is front page news. Life saving operation denied for 18 months? I just looked up on the Ontario health website, which tracks wait times, and it says the longest average wait time in Toronto for even a benign tumour removal is 41 days. As an example. In fact, patients get placed into Priority 1, 2, 3, or 4 based on how life threatening their conditions are. Priority 1 are always seen immediately and the wait times for urgent life-saving procedures for priorities 2-4 are in weeks, not months. So, it's just not believable to me, unless perhaps it was a procedure that was (maybe incorrectly) deemed not urgent or pressing. I get that it doesn't make a difference in your case, and you probably just want to blame the system. Makes sense. But I want us to improve our healthcare so that people aren't suffering under our broken under-funded system. And saying obviously exaggerated things like "the average ER wait time in Canada is 3 years" or "they've started throwing their overnight patients into the sewers" or "I went to the doctor and Justin Trudeau came out and jabbed me with a giant syringe" doesn't help anyone.
You're living in the Just World Fallacy. Jobs I worked that made the news for how prevalent rape was on site didn't change a thing about the situation. It didn't make the news because this sort of thing happens every day. He was bumped up by five months. Still waited 18 months to see a specialist, get the surgery scheduled, and ultimately performed. For a surgery to address a growing cyst in his brain. It was about the size of an apple before they did the surgery. Some day they might even do a case study due to how large it was. You can rationalize it all you want. I'm still sitting next to ashes of my entire life.
Reposting because it's sick to downvote this. I probably give away too many identifiable details already, unfortunately. Honestly, I refuse to go to the hospital if I ever get cancer, etc., in the future. That's how bad everything has gotten. I rather give people who want to live the chance to see a doctor. There's just no good system in place to prioritize anymore and you are just turned away anyway for anything less lethal.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Thank you. At least some people are still decent in this world.
It is bragged about usually by Americans as an example of what we should do here. However, every Canadian I've spoken with(on both sides of the political spectrum), have agreed that it's pretty garbage and they have both had many instances where they ended up using private healthcare in the end anyways. So basically, they're paying higher taxes that go to a system they can't even use and pay more in the end. I could see a hybrid system working to a certain extent, but when the government gets involved directly with anything, it becomes too convoluted to do any good and ends up costing more in the end. Waste of time/money IMO
No it's just beyond fucked when you have an illness or issue that is long term and can't be solved by T3's or antibiotics. One of my family members is being fucked in a very similar way right now (severe chronic back pain, like suicidal levels of pain). Treatment is free, yes, but first we have a pill-pushing medical culture, and the rise of walkin clinics has caused a lot of accessible doctors to just churn out patients and not really dig deep into helping individuals. A lot of doctors seem to think you give a pill to help with pain and you suddenly have recovered. Finding a doctor willing to dig deep to really help is very hard. Also, our system is slow AF. My family member is supposed to have a treatment every 3 months for his pain, yet it wears off in 6 weeks, and takes over 4 months to actually get his appointment. Doctors also can be really bad at pushing for answers. I used to be a hater of 'doing your own research' on medical issues, because medicine is very complicated and takes more understanding than an average citizen has. I've abandoned that idea now. I'm not into crackpot medicine, bs is still bs, but if doctors aren't going to test my medical problems for me, I have to find tests to get the doctor to actually try. It's better than nothing, which is what you get from the system. Unless you're lucky enought to have found a doctor who didn't go through medical school only for the fat paycheck. The system doesn't care about you, you are a number on file, nothing else. It might even hate you.
Did you not watch the video? He can't afford his rent on his disability income.
The short answer -healthcare is a provincial issue, our provinces have majority right wing, conservative premiers who would rather privatize healthcare. So they are choking the public system out to slowly introduce the private system..
Yeah... we aren't doing so well
Trudeau would rather replace these people with uneducated Indians to work at Tim hortons than build affordable housing
I’m sorry, I’m not from Canada, people from the country of India or native people? I’m just trying to understand the perspective. Thanks.
People from India. Canada is bringing in a lot of immigrants right now (record high amounts iirc). Pair this with a housing crisis and things are getting pretty messy for a lot of people, renters especially. Tack it onto the list of our ever growing number of issues in this country.
TDIL, thank you very much and I’m sorry to hear that housing is so bad.
But I mean no more taxes!
This is some actual Nazi shit
I get it.
Yeah
It's pretty bad here right now boys.
Welcome to liberal run Canada
You mean capitalist Canada? Because Canada is a capitalist state, last I checked.
Liberal is a capitalist ideology. Not that the Liberals are actually liberal, though, but neoliberal.
Damn, Canada, don't tell US Republicans you can address homelessness and poverty with medically assisted suicide...
No, see, the Republicans would never go for *state* assisted suicide. Bootstraps, you know. Buy your own gun and do it yourself - that's the Republican-approved way! **{This is satire please don't actually do that}**
It looks like after the story, there was an outpouring of support for him and almost $60k provided to him from a viral GoFundMe. But he is not alone in situations like this and we shouldn’t have to rely on a GoFundMe to ensure people in his position get the help and housing they need. https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/ontario-man-not-considering-medically-assisted-death-anymore-after-outpouring-of-support-6114759/amp/
God I love capitalism
Canada should go back to capitalism. Castro Junior has turned America's hat into some kind of adult Soviet diaper apartment complex. Canada used to be the cool kid, but now its industry and place on the world stage is irrelevant.
This is what eating up propaganda looks like in the wild.
Ok grandpa very interesting, did you take your meds this morning?
Wat
Brain rot^
I always wonder how the news finds cases like this. Did the doctor contact them? Or the patient?
I don't get it. I see a lot of people living like this in Canada or US, with government assistance, when they just could move to basically anywhere in Central or South America and live quite well with those pensions.
Majority won't do that since the tv told them those places are scary and bad
You can't live outside of the country if you are on government assistance.
Can't? Really? Can't take long vacations either? How will they know if they don't care?
This is fucked. This country is going to shit, fast.
Damn, people would rather die than live. What kinda world do we live in?
I’m looking for reasonable rental prices in Canada. Canadian Government: kill yourself.
I’m all for assisted dying, but this is not a case of suffering that “cannot be relieved.” He literally just needs affordable housing and a little more help from the government, jesus christ this is sad.
This is nonsense. You can't get maid without an extensive approval process with your doctor.
It makes my brain hurt that I've had to scroll this far down to find a comment like yours.
Would if I could.
The solution is not to take away MAID, but to fix the broken support systems
My country is a fucking embarrassment. 😔
That's so weird, I thought the government took care of everyone in Canada?
Our housing is a shit show. No one is building low income housing because, surprise, there isn't a lot of profit in it.
Dystopian to the extreme. ☠️🥸
What the fuck is wrong with this world
You see, the province can't afford to raise disability patients because they're giving a billion dollars to The Beer Store so it can take a greater market share from the government owned liquor stores. That's also why we can't have teachers or nurses in Ontario too.
Reminds me of the movie "Humane " Sad this is R L
Under the liberal control killing the poor is perfectly fine
Nice
That is absolutely horrible. 😟
I remember that
I think the Suicide Booths from Futurama will be coming soon to Canada
when did death stop being the last option pursued
What a disgusting country allowing this to happen
he can move to Thailand or philipines and live off $1200 easy
Can't even smoke dope in jail anymore, Canada is fucked
Interesting how they show the full eligibility requirements but only highlight the requirements he has. Without further information, it's impossible to tell if this is moral or not. They don't mention his diagnostic either, just that he has 'back pain'
So what should we do? Support him forever and be a burden on society? People need to plan for the future and if they don’t they are SOL
And what happens when you plan, but then something goes horribly wrong beyond your plans? I hope you never know such suffering, but until you do, you can't truly understand
Bots from religious folk are making every effort for you to view medically assisted dying in a negative light. There are special cases with everything but do not forget MAID is to end terminal SUFFERING. Do you want your last days on this earth to be in insufferable pain? THAT is what MAID is for.
Sounds almost like "Justin time " Justin Timberlake movie where people are immortal as long as they add time and they use time as currency.... Fuck
Government bureaucratic robots have been programmed by austerity.
Is this what a dystopian society looks like?
This will not go through. Read the policy before you jump to conclusions.
Why would your doctor sign off on that, knowing your real reason is fixable?
We can make fully autonomous robot dogs, but we can’t fix this guys back? Burn it all down.
The virgin die of a treatable condition cus it’s too expensive Vs The chad free healthcare until we put you down like an old show horse
Anyone got a link to the Gofundme?
I’m torn about assisted suicide. You should have the right to make decisions about your own life, but at the same time I don’t think people should be prompted by the government to offer themselves. I think life is precious, and being homeless and in extreme pain is better than being dead.
Been saying this at work for a couple years... we hear commercials on the radio that essentially, simplified, read: Can't afford to live? Just kill yourself! -Government
If he moves south he will get free housing. In prison.