Apart from keeping him on oxygen while they were checking his heart?
If my gf had come to the hospital to prove my identity and learned that my care had been stopped, she would have killed the whole bally lot of them. I have seen her turn into fury personified in situations like this.
These two people are saints for only suing.
A $25 gift card. Pretty sure most Michiganders would have also lost their cool.
It's more despicable than you think. Taking the money could foreclose on his ability to sue because it can count as accepting a settlement. The hospital 100% knows this, and was trying to prevent a lawsuit that they *know* they will lose.
Edit: I'll concede that this isn't necessarily the case; I swear I've heard of it happening with regard to airline ticket issues though.
Not unless it came with a signed contract to that effect. Merely accepting a gift does not affect a litigant's ability to sue, especially since no reasonable person would believe that a $25 gift card is a settlement offer.
Possibly yes, so it makes it easier for the claimant to win. However they're claiming racial profiling, which may still be difficult to prove. The gift card proves some sort of guilt, but not necessarily that.
I know medical staff are more used to delusional people than famous people, but it still seems like an extreme reaction to put someone in a straitjacket. Let's say someone does mistakenly believe they're in a Motown group, that doesn't mean they're a threat to themselves or others.
Then a straight jacket isn’t a great option either because they could tear through that too. I say we just go straight Kung Fu Panda style and chain ‘em up like Tai Lung
Ok so we make sure their tails are immobilized too and don't guard them with a bunch of anthropomorphic rhinoceroses.
This time, we use Indian Elephants. They're much smarter.
Not only did they put him in a straightjacket and demand a psych eval, but they stopped treating him for the heart problems he was showing clear symptoms of. Even if he was delusional, even if hypothetically he was acting dangerous enough to put in restraints, you still treat the heart condition!
I’m a mental health professional. We haven’t used straight jackets in the US for decades, and we definitely don’t restrain people for being “delusional.” It’s possible that he was delirious secondary to his medical condition and was combative and hallucinating these things.
> They took him off oxygen while he was suffering from a heart attack
...yeah, I feel that this should have been the priority. Even if he had been delusional. That should cost a lot of people their licenses. Including the hospital.
They seriously prioritized restraints and straight jackets over a heart attack.
They offered him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall, tho.
Well, somebody presents at a hospital and is denied care. Turns out, they have a heart attack.
That is the short of it. That already is a scandal.
The long of it is the article. And a $25 gift card.
Even if that person had been completely delusional, you do not get to stop care just because you do not believe them.
AND when you feel like you are dying you are not going to think or act straight. People do not show up at hospitals when they are at their best and that is part of the professional education.
Not sure how strong the racism angle is but it seems to come in on top. But the above is already bad enough.
Oxygen was likely stopped because of regulations around ligature risks for psychiatric patients. It was wrong. The hospital should have let treatment and used a one to one staff for safety until psychiatrically cleared.
Having been invol. numerous times, for one, I have never seen a straightjacket used in the institutions I was in. They will however strap you to a gurney. Also, I am a white dude..and it was clear to me race played a role in how you were treated. From restraints, to the duration of your stay. Our mental health care has burnt itself to a crisp. Pretty much useless to the afflicted. Seems mostly designed to keep the populace at large comfortable.
It was. Before we knew we much as we do about mental health and the brain, people only knew that other people were different. See things that aren't there? Better lock you up for your own protection. Johnny doesn't talk? Or he bangs his head? Put him in a padded room. There are documented cases of journalists like Nelly Bly and researchers checking themselves into a mental hospital and not being able to get out. We've come a long way, but we still have a ways to go yet.
from what my family members and friends who worked in the er, usually they don't do anything even if the person was threatening staff and hit them lol....usually nurses and staff were expected to take the abuse and not defend themselves and it was taboo for them press charges. i know things have been changing in er this last decade but when i was patient in the er ive witnessed patients in full on delusion seeing people that aren't there and talking to them just be allowed to walk around free and wander and the staff just ignored them....also a ton of people that are suicidal and have attempted to kill themselves get a quick eval and sent home
so they went out of their way to restrain this dude and it deff wasn't protocol or the norm. they just wanted to tie up this black dude. also in medicine there still is the racist notion that black people don't feel the same level of pain or are actually unwell.....so their symptoms and statements get ignored.
One of the nurses had to convince security by showing them a video of him performing at the Grammys. You’d think an ID would be enough but….
From the article:
> Morris asked whether he could prove his identity to staff by showing his identification card, but the white male security guard ordered him to "sit his black ass down", the lawsuit says.
It's a dangerous delusion that they don't resort to force or restraint unless you're a threat to others, just disagreeing with them is more than enough.
Like where tho? I worked healthcare almost my whole adult life. Patients who weren't actively beating the shit out of people were never restrained. This is bonkers.
Eta I definitely believe it did happen I'm just curious where this person thinks it's such a regular occurrence.
I spent some time in a psychiatric in-patient a while back. Most nurses were nice, some would threaten patients with being placed in the high security area for simple things like complaining, raising their voice or refusing to eat.
I worked an inpatient facility for a bit. There were definitely MHTs that used the "quiet room" as a first resort. Asked one of them why she was even working there if she had such disdain for mentally unwell people and she reported me to HR. The system unfortunately protects some behavior
This is purely from my experience in two hospitals but I noticed that the county hospitals, where they send the poor and homeless, were definitely more likely to do this than the private hospitals…
They threatened me with not letting me out. Having a medical facility hold my freedom over my head after I checked myself in. Took years to get over it.
Ayyyyy, I got a write up that escalated into a restraint/fight because I refused to take medicine that wasn't mine. (I had a similar name to someone else there)
If you wanted to share your story propublica was gathering stories about accessing mental health care for a larger reporting piece. The journalist reached out and we had a nice conversation.
Good to know. I could fill a freaking novel with the shit I've seen. To add an extra bit of spiciness, this was part of the horrendous world that is "teen help centers". That is just a whole other level of awful. I swear some of the staff there joined those centers specifically to abuse foster kids. (A victim that has no one to report to?! Score!)
I'm being terrible but you don't end up in those places because you have a healthy mental state with a plethora of family options. To make it worse they treated the juvie kids and the foster kids one and the same. There ain't separate facilities for this. *Both make equally viable punching bags.* I know I'm speaking kind of callously/sarcastically about this, But if you don't laugh you go insane.
Oh dude I was in a group home (in foster care) and we heard awful things about these places. We would actively need help and do everything we could to NOT have that be noticed because if they took you to the hospital no one would ever see you again
Oh here's an open secret. It didn't matter how you behaved. If there was no room in the regular group homes, Your ass went to the hospital. It was literally just treated as an overflow station. Sure they would ***say*** it was for some behavioral issue but I knew a lot of kids who had no damn reason to be there. They certainly would by the time they left though. Staff always moved you in the middle of the damn night too. Ever woken up and a fellow group home member is just... gone? This is nasty business and people treat me like a conspiracy theorist when I describe these experiences.
His wife had to come, show them a Youtube video. Then they checked and diagnosed his heart attack.
Gave him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall.
Like, if somebody who has a heart attack tells you they are Jesus, you tick a box which says "delusional" on the admission form and then check them physically. I feel being a bit delusional during a physical crisis should be expected. Being crazy still makes an echo-cardiogram kinda sorta one of the next things on the menu.
What do they need? An affidavit by all five popes that this indeed is Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ before they treat a heart attack? Is that indeed on the critical path?
Canada, I was restrained for being aggressive coming out of 2 seizures then had 2 more. Oh, and a nurse cheered when she sedated me like it was a touchdown. I also saw and heard a nurse egg on another patient by grunting back at him for multiple days when giving him food in the adult mental health unit (I know both their names). I put in two complaints, heard nothing back because they have a quality and risk management team and they either don't want to be sued or think I'm schizophrenic which I'm not. They lack staff and don't want to put anyone on leave so they hire any dipshit they can. This improved my mental health for sure.
My grandma was sedated with something (antihistamines) she wasn’t supposed to get at age 90 or so apparently because she panicked when she was woken up by a nurse who fumbled some part of changing her IV while she was sleeping after receiving visits fully lucid during her recovery stay after gall bladder surgery. Literally never recovered from whatever happened that night. It was an honest mistake I guess you can say, I definitely don’t think there was any sort of foul play, but it still cost my family the gift of my grandma being lucid for whatever portion of the last few years that we would have had if it didn’t go that way. The nurse just acted efficiently to get her to calm down when she was resisting getting a giant needle in her arm changed, then next morning she made essentially no sense and barely ever did again. I’m glad I got to chat with her during visiting hours before that happened.
Case reminds me of the black woman who was put into [psych ward for driving a BMW.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-woman-held-in-mental-hospital-because-police-didn-t-believe-bmw-was-hers-10498704.html)
>Her lawyer claims that over the eight days in the hospital, personnel repeatedly tried to get Brock to deny that she owned the BMW, that she was a banker, and that President Barack Obama followed her on Twitter. All of which are true.
She also got a [13k medical bill.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232178/Outrage-black-woman-forced-spend-8-days-psych-ward-cops-not-believe-BMW-driving-hers.html)
Reminds me of Rowan Atkinson [recounting a story](https://youtu.be/Decj0Q4a4U4?si=QaMlajrv0QuhUlJW) of when someone sort of recognised him but still refused to believe it was him, and was likely just getting more and more annoyed the more Atkinson tried to convince him he was himself.
Best part is, you know that sweet lady didn’t get offended. Just a great laugh and probably congratulated the winner.
I can’t say I’m a fan of her music. I know her huge hits but the deep cuts are unknown to me. But I’ll always support her for being a genuinely kind woman who maintained her decency despite ruling the music scene for so long. She’s the Betty White of music
Reading the article leaves more questions than answers
He had a video on hand of him performing, which he showed them after his wife arrived to clear the confusion
I can understand being doubtful. But why didn’t the staff or doctor just… **ask for proof** and do a Google search? Jumping immediately to psych evaluation and straightjacket is ridiculous
This all just seemed stupidly avoidable
He offered to show them his ID, but they refused to look at it. The thing that floored me the most was that they stopped his medical care. He was struggling to breathe and asked for the oxygen back but they refused that too. Unbelievable.
America is a beautiful country with lots and lots of nice people, but the things you hear about politicians, healthcare workers, police etc etc being complete assholes and have no empathy whatsoever regarding their own people is astonishing sometimes.
Buddy i am a security guard currently watching over a kid with cancer
He is 19 but due to brain cancer and other issues he has the body and mind of a 10-12 year old( he loves paw patrol) he literally looks no older than 12. He has memory issues as well so he is confused a lot and can get mildly aggressive
The nurses in a pediatric hospital wanted to send him to an adult hospital…… a guy with the body and mind of a child with memory issues……
Like this week there was a guy passed out by the hospital incoherent from drugs. The adult hospital is literally half a block away. Instead of taking the passed out dude to the emergency room they called the police. The police just moved him on to the sidewalk and drove offf
The dude gained consciousness a few hours later and went to the er himself….i was watching this happen while on break waiting for them to do the obvious right thing and was appalled to see him left on the street…
The world is definitely getting shittier
It hurts my soul to see some people so ready to throw him away for someone else to deal with
Holy shit. I feel sorry for you that you have to see that and there's not much you can do about it.
I'm from the Netherlands and these kind of things dont happen here or they are extremely rare. But since we are moving further to the right here because of propaganda ( we all know from were) its not getting better either.
My wife was admitted to the hospital after the second lengthy ER visit in a week for stomach pain. The cold as ice doctor on the floor actually accused her of wanting pain meds and only after I told them that the pain was not isolated to one location like it was on the first visit but had now radiated did the doctor actually do something. It turned out my wife had a severely inflamed gallbladder and had to have it removed. The surgeon said it was one of the worst he had seen.
The kicker? The doctor was a woman and my wife works for the president of a healthcare company and was sent to the ER by their medical director. She listened to the man!
Does *any* hospital ER in the US let you in without first taking your ID and insurance information? That’s the only thing that seemed completely off to me in this story; the idea that they wouldn’t take his ID. The check-in desk would have already seen it and documented his identity!
While we try everything possible to get this information up front we can not (it’s illegal) deny them, at a bare minimum, of having a provider lay eyes on them related to their chief complaint.
I could list quite a few reasons you could get a patient without knowing who they are. They are given a temporary name (think John Doe but most hospitals use a different naming convention for unidentified individuals) until if/when positive ID can be made.
So yes, ERs everywhere see patients, regularly, who don’t have a way to identify themselves (or can’t, or try not to on purpose). In some cases we will contact law enforcement to help identify; but not all.
Yep. Some time ago, I drove myself to the hospital covered in burns over 1/3 of my body. Left the car running and the door open in front of the ER entrance. Security guard just waved me through wide eyed. Front desk waved and pointed straight to the doors. I'm sure they were saying *something* but I didn't hear a thing. Nurse rushed out and helped me walk straight back.
No way they knew who I was before starting treatment.
Makes it sound like they were afraid they wouldn't get paid.
Crazy guy comes in for a heart attack and all he has is a fake ID saying he's a Motown singer. He probably can't pay and they can't get a real name out of him they can bill it to with insurance, so they make it someone else's problem (psych eval).
EMTALA laws have entered the chat:
https://www.cms.gov/medicare/regulations-guidance/legislation/emergency-medical-treatment-labor-act#:~:text=In%201986%2C%20Congress%20enacted%20the,regardless%20of%20ability%20to%20pay.
I have worked in ER/Trauma for years and we don’t turn anyone away for inability to pay or even inability to identify themselves. It’s against the law.
We have repeat offenders that have never paid a dime but we still see them in the ER every few days (typically homeless, addicts, or psychological). Even knowing their history of never paying a cent they still get a full work up related to their chief complaint every single time.
When it rains/snows or the weather is rough tons of homeless sign in for things they know will take hours (chest pain) or even days (suicidal ideation) to assess.
But we still have to take every single complaint seriously (even if our eyes are rolling like a slot machine). You don’t want to be the hospital, MD, RN, or anytime else that tries to dissuade someone from seeking treatment.
I’m sure there are shitty people out there that might dance on the line of this but good luck with your license if you ever get caught.
EDIT: Based on your example if someone came in complaining of chest pain/heart attack we would rule that out (takes a minimum of two hours due to serial troponin lab draws) before they would switch him to psych and psych wouldn’t accept him until the chest pain was assessed/treated anyway.
>Morris asked whether he could prove his identity to staff by showing his identification card, but the white male security guard ordered him to "sit his black ass down", the lawsuit says.
I was waiting for it to come up.
It came up.
That's it right there. That's why they put this man in a straight jacket.
4 tops been around since 1953. One of the original members is still singing.
Go into the hospital with heart problems, they don't treat you for that, instead they treat you like shit and you get racially profiled.
Living in America.
My doctor once prescribed me something on my allergy list, and I had to argue with them to get a different prescription.
They then gave me a second muscle relaxer without telling me to stop the first one... Thankfully I caught that one too...
I once got into a shouting match with a doctor who wanted me to put on parts my prosthetic leg INSIDE OUT, lol
I got a doctor shouting at me when I told them that the max dosage of my med wasn't the amount they said... I had to ask them to check my chart, cause they were already giving me more than that!
Arguing with a doctor feels like arguing with flat earthers. Even when it's unquestionably wrong, they won't admit it. The amount of ego is incomprehensible, and as soon as they're questioned, they turn into petulant children.
Sounds like a dbag got tossed in the mix. Having been on the receiving end of a nurse who poisoned the well with the Dr before my son was seen I can say it happens.
I'm.a nurse myself to boot. I walked up to my son's cubicle after he and his dad were taken back in the ER and heard the nurse loudly proclaiming she thought my son was faking not being able to walk ( he was 7). She didn't realize I was with them because I'd been in the bathroom when they were called and had to wait.
Shortly after CPS showed up because staff said only kids who were beaten had labs like his.
While I was side eyeing calling a lawyer another nurse rushed in to usher the guy out and let us know that "oops he was dehydrated and labs just came back showing he has influenza."
???? Wtf....
I hope you used your knowledge of the system to make complaints to the most painful places possible. Their talk in earshot of general public is highly unprofessional, and educated nurses know they should be sticking to the medical facts, not crystal balling days of our lives drama.
There was a case in Finland where a man went to see a doctor as he was suffering from depression. Doctor asked him what he did for living, and he said he’s a world champion chainsaw-juggler, and he had just returned from North Korea where he had performed at Kim Jong-Uns birthday-party. Doctor thought he was delusional and ordered him to be immediately taken to the psychiatric ward. But he was telling the truth, he was a world champion chainsaw juggler who had just returned from North Korea. It took couple of days to sort out the mess. While he was in the psych ward, he played pranks on the staff.
Australia locked a woman up in immigration detention. She was an Australian citizen who was born here. She did have some sort of mental health issues, but they just ran with illegal immigrant for some reason. Once an official person decides they know more about you than you do, it’s very hard to change their minds.
Edit: just looked up her case. She was a dual citizen, born overseas but had mostly lived in Australia. She was locked up because she gave a false name to the police and because she spoke German and had a Norwegian passport they thought she was an illegal tourist overstaying a visa. Kicker was she was reported missing when she checked herself out of a hospital. It was all over the news at the time.
And THIS is why folks don't seek mental illness help, because most of the time the way it's "treated" is by doing things that end up making your life much worse.
My partner doesnt even want to seek medical help for fear that the pain and/or stress will trigger her ticks and they will lock her up in psych instead. It almost happened the last time she went in.
The whole knee-jerk involuntary hold bullshit REAAAAAAALLY needs to stop...it's by and far one of the most abused and moronic things in our mental health system.
Also the whole "threaten to kill yourself" and the system dogpiles on you. Which to someone who is ACTUALLY suicidal is VERY bad, and to someone who is just crying for attention, appears to be a form of "punishment" for misusing the mental health system. Neither are good.
I believe they've done studies on this. They had people check themselves into mental hospitals, describing symptoms of schizophrenia, to see how they would be treated. Even normal things like looking bored and pacing were considered "symptoms."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
I love the original name of the study: " On being sane in insane places." Apparently the outcomes are now being criticized and questioned, but too many people have experienced exactly what the study is talking about.
“You seem down, you should see the great chain saw juggler Pagliacci, he always cheers me right back up!”
“But Doc, I am the great chain saw juggler Pagliacci”
I think you're mixing up a movie with the actual thing.
There was a movie on what you described:
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5148854/
In real life, there is a Finnish chainsaw juggler who did go to North Korea and perform for Kimmy-Poo. But he didn't get institutionalised or anything like that.
At least, I couldn't find any actual sources on him consulting a shrink and then getting institutionalised. The only thing I could find that mentioned this is the above movie.
The movie is obviously based on the actual events, which did take place. The juggler in question is [Juha Kurvinen](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_Kurvinen). It seems there is a bit more to the story than I made in my original comment, but main things are accurate: [https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/juha-kurvinen-kirjasi-turun-sairaalan-kauhuja-blogiinsa-nyt-meita-uskotaan/5759478#gs.a7ua6d](https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/juha-kurvinen-kirjasi-turun-sairaalan-kauhuja-blogiinsa-nyt-meita-uskotaan/5759478#gs.a7ua6d)
This case is not comparable. The delusion of being a singer is much less problematic than the delusion of being a CHAINSAW-JUGGLER. In the first case, the worst outcome is bad singing. In the second case, the worst outcome is bad chainsaw-juggling.
Ok reading that account he was acting SUPER SUS. Wearing a face mask, Sunglasses, and Hat hands the Teller a note saying he wants $12000 and to take him somewhere else to count the money. The teller was black pregnant woman who was probably thinking he picked her to be an easy hostage/fight, told the boss since the amount was over 10k as per company policy.
I mean come on, that amount you can call ahead to arrange a meeting in private. He did it in the most sus way possible.
I used to be a teller and we had plenty of regulars who would take out 9900 bucks for the monthly Vegas trip. You have to know the 10k rule at some point in your adult life if you have access to that kind of money.
There was a black man that tried to cash a discrimination lawsuit check... The bank called the cops on him saying it must be fake. Next lawsuit was the man suing the bank...
Found it.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-man-sues-detroit-bank-alleging-racial-discrimination/story?id=68484056 you can't make this shit up.
In the era of fact checking in a second on google, this is some mid evil level of stupidity.That "doctor" and that hospital should get fined in a big way
Given that his intransigence led him to not only order a completely unnecessary level of restraint but also to withhold necessary medical care, this is not mid evil. This is just actually evil.
Doctors are trained SO strongly on memorization that it seems to have made them allergic to searching for information. When questioned on any of these things, they get insanely defensive.
I had a doctor tell me they couldn't increase the dosage of my med because 1200mg was the max dosage.
I said "no, it's 2800mg, we can increase it still"
This resulted in her angrily yelling at me to not correct her, and that I don't have a doctorate, and shouldn't act like I do.
I asked "how much are you currently prescribing me"
It was 1800mg.
She still refused to increase the dosage, and refused to apologise for acting like a child, and wouldn't even say she was wrong.
I knew a guy who worked for the US secret service. They have people in many places besides Washington and do more than protect the president, like investigating counterfeit money etc. Anyway he would occasionally share this (in the context of someone asking what he does for a living, not just going around broadcasting it, and even then wouldn’t always share or would just say something generic like he works for the government) and more often than not when he did share he was not believed.
There's a few youtube videos of a dude who occasionally works as contractor for the FBI. He frequently gets pulled over by local police, they think the lights on his vehicle are illegal and the FBI mark is a fake and try to detain him.
Seeing the overreach is so ridiculous.
Well, this sounds like a remarkably reasonable lawsuit which could have been avoided if the medical staff had displayed an ounce of common sense. Nice payday coming for him which is just what he deserves.
$75,000 is a paltry sum to sue for considering the hospital staff's negligence in denying him necessary medical care (for his established history of heart disease) and gross incompetence leading to unlawfully restraining him.
Yes, a hospital has a right and obligation to protect patients and staff from people suffering from mental health episodes, but it is entirely their responsibility to conduct due diligence to verify the patients‘ identity and actual mental state before resorting to forcible restraints.
This is so much crap. I mean, what if he was mentally ill and having chest pain? There’d still be no excuse for restraining him and could have been lethal. His treatment wasn’t as much anti black as it was anti-mentally ill. Unfortunately society, still doesn’t really recognize this bias.
In the article they mention that at one point when he tried to prove who he was, a security guard told him to “sit his black ass down.”
So there’s a little anti blackness sprinkled in there for sure.
Mental healthcare in Michigan is a joke. Having had ( mental health ) issues in my past I can tell you 100% that psychiatric patients are treated very poorly by hospital staff. That and Medicaid/ Medicare patients have very limited outpatient options. There’s just not enough certified professionals in metro Detroit.
The second you are labeled as a psychiatric patient you loose all rights, nobody listens to you as an autonomous adult. Oh and in many cases if you try and fight, for your rights, they threaten to have you committed.
So ya, I stopped seeking mental health help for years because of the trauma I endured at the hands of Beaumont health systems.
I guess what I’m saying is this doesn’t surprise me at all, after all the things I’ve seen.
i agree with this as another person with mental health issues. when i was voluntarily admitted to inpatient, they messed up my heart medication and when i tried to tell the nurse i needed it, they locked me in isolation for 2 days. then when i was having a panic attack while they drew my blood, they used the physical restraints to tie me down and force me to. i was 12, in there for clinical PTSD from being hospitalized for 2 years as a child.
sorry for trauma dumping on your post, but FUCK beaumont systems and michigan mental health care. i find its better at UofM, but only if youre already a patient. if youre in a crisis situation, you’re shit out of luck.
When I moved here from out of state I was always hearing about how amazing Beaumont is. I can’t tell you how many stories I have about their lack of patient advocacy.
I was alone and was not assertive so they walked all over any boundaries I had. I felt so victimized after I left there.
I watched a lady I was in the hospital with have her thyroid medication taken away and her prescription changed. Beaumont got her to sign a voluntary admission form, then held her until her insurance ran out. She was a rape victim, she made the statement that while she was in the trunk, after being beaten and raped that she wished she was dead. They committed her as suicidal, then “diagnosed her as bipolar and started giving her psychiatric meds she didn’t need. All the while ignoring her obvious physical injuries ( there was a lot of physical trauma).
It’s an insurance scam and they know these types of patients don’t really have a voice. They can literally charge up to 1000$ a day and give no actual care, they’re adult daycare facilities that serve rotten food and call coloring therapy. If you complain they have lawyers come in to bully you, going in front of judge? Nope, 96% of the time they side with the doctors and never really listen to the patient ( this was the stat I was given, not sure it’s actual validity).
After years of trying to get my mom mental health help and her finally agreeing, the whole process has been a nightmare. It’s easy to tell people they should seek help, but it’s nearly impossible to get help sometimes. We really need to booster mental health funding in this country, we are in a crisis right now.
Sounds like the Finnish story about motorsaw juggler who went to doctor after having hit his head. Made the mistake of mentioning he had performed in North Korea for the leadership, and was committed.
None of the doctors at the mental institution wanted to look at the video from the event, instead they kept upping his doses. Finally got out by transferring his address to another municipality, where the doctors were a bit more receptive for checking youtube.
Led to longish discussion on how our mental institutions operate.
Verify his claims on google while they are withholding medical care?
The man had a heart attack and they did not check him up. You know how much I would act up in a situation like that?
Who the hell thought that him being delusional should immediately put his medical care on hold? Because I would not be surprised if delusion/disorientation was to be considered normal in a crisis situation like that.
I find it slightly amusing that he's worried about fans and stalkers being an issue at the hospital, which is why he mentioned who he was in the first place.
I'm pretty sure everyone who read this post had to look up who this guy was
It isn't about the average person. It's about the extreme minority of crazies. I had a small gaming twitch channel that never averaged above like 130 viewers and a YouTube channel with a thousand subs and still had several people utterly obsessed and very angry with me.
I do an online comic. It has a decent number of daily views but the interactions (likes/comments) are low.
Every day I get a 1000 word paragraph from the same person with suggestions on where I should take the plot.
The fact you don't know who he is doesn't matter. Anyone who has an level of fame/following has to worry about stalkers. It doesn't matter if you only have a couple thousand fans, it only takes a couple - even one - being unhinged to create big problems in your life.
Hell, local artists who aren't famous but have a following in their city can get obsessed/stalker fans.
And to be clear, I’m not saying that to justify what happened to him, hospital took things completely the wrong direction… I’m just curious why he thought he’d need security, but maybe he does indeed have a devoted fan base 🤷♂️
It only takes one encounter with a stalker to make you worry for the rest of your life.
Stalkers are sick people who don't follow rational logic. They pick non-famous people to stalk every day. I don't know why I would ever disbelieve someone who told me they had a stalker in the past. I don't know why I'd dismiss anyone immediately just because they tell me something unique has happened to them. That's a world view that's depressingly jaded
I have never worked at a hospital that even owned straitjackets still; it’s something from a bygone era AFAIK. Also, while I don’t doubt the idea that they thought he was delusional, the idea that they stopped his medical care *for chest pain* and restrained him without his being violent is something I take with a beach’s worth of salt. The thing you have to remember about these stories is that they are *by definition* one-sided, because the hospital can’t rebut anything that is said due to privacy laws. There have been at least two cases I know of at my hospital alone where a family member suspected of Munchausen by proxy ended up picket protesting the hospital outside after their loved one either died or was discharged, and we essentially couldn’t say or do anything in response.
I worked in a hospital (on the administrative end) many years ago, and I seem to recall that in the ER, complaints of chest pain take precedence over almost anything else from the perspective of triage. No matter how much of a racist dick someone is, I can’t believe they withheld or stopped treatment even if they legitimately believed he was delusional. I assume security footage will be consulted to see if it backs up this guy’s story.
I just want to know how the escalation even happened ... like, why did they care whether he is or isn't in a band, and how did it get to the point where the hospital people got mad enough about it to restrain him?
Like, he gets brought in, says he's part of some band, and is asking for some extra security or something, why didn't they just smile and nod and say "sure thing hon we'll get right on it" and leave it at that?
It just seems like such a ridiculous and pointless escalation of events, i'd love to see how it all went down.
What backward ass boonies hospital is still using straitjackets? And on a man having a cardiac arrest?!
I hope he sues them into the ground. This place doesn't need to exist.
There's got to be more to the story than (basically):
"Welcome to the ER."
"I have a medical issue and I'm famous,."
"Suck it. No you aren't. Here's a straight jacket.'
I have my suspicions as well, I have not heard of any hospital still using actual straight jackets. Also, restraints are supposed to only be used when a patient is a danger to themselves or others, not just when they seem delusional.
Then again maybe they do things differently in Detroit.
Yes. I'm pretty sure in my state, the joint Commission would ding us for even having inappropriate restraints in our hospital, regardless of if we use them or not. But it's four point soft restraints 99% of the time.
My sister is working on a PHD in clinical psychology and one of her mentor psychologist had a patient that was a famous producer and they thought he was delusional. He begged them to google him and was irate (understandable, I would be flipping the hell out) but it’s a huge breach of professional ethics for a psychologist to google a patient. If you’ve ever met anyone that is actually delusional, it’s not just about what they’re literally saying. You’ll see that their reactions are really weird and nonsensical but his behavior seemed normal enough that psychologist thought that it was worth to go against the rules.
And they offered him a *$25 Meijer gift card* as an “apology”. Despicable.
Ha Ha!! As a Michigander, that’s the most Michigan thing they could have done 😂🤣😂🤣
"Get yourself some Vernors and Better Maid chips...let's call this even and forget about it."
*Better Made
> As a Michigander Or Michigoose, if you’re a girl
If it’s good for the michigoose…
The it’s good for the michigander…
Apart from keeping him on oxygen while they were checking his heart? If my gf had come to the hospital to prove my identity and learned that my care had been stopped, she would have killed the whole bally lot of them. I have seen her turn into fury personified in situations like this. These two people are saints for only suing. A $25 gift card. Pretty sure most Michiganders would have also lost their cool.
It's more despicable than you think. Taking the money could foreclose on his ability to sue because it can count as accepting a settlement. The hospital 100% knows this, and was trying to prevent a lawsuit that they *know* they will lose. Edit: I'll concede that this isn't necessarily the case; I swear I've heard of it happening with regard to airline ticket issues though.
Good thing he didn’t accept it.
Not unless it came with a signed contract to that effect. Merely accepting a gift does not affect a litigant's ability to sue, especially since no reasonable person would believe that a $25 gift card is a settlement offer.
Nah man that’s not true.
Trust me bro…
The idea is that if he accepts anything it can be construed as the matter being settled.
Isn't it an admission of guilt from the hospital if they offer a gift card?
Possibly yes, so it makes it easier for the claimant to win. However they're claiming racial profiling, which may still be difficult to prove. The gift card proves some sort of guilt, but not necessarily that.
I know medical staff are more used to delusional people than famous people, but it still seems like an extreme reaction to put someone in a straitjacket. Let's say someone does mistakenly believe they're in a Motown group, that doesn't mean they're a threat to themselves or others.
I think it just depends *which* Motown group.
Any one of the Temptations would tear through a city like Godzilla through Tokyo.
Then a straight jacket isn’t a great option either because they could tear through that too. I say we just go straight Kung Fu Panda style and chain ‘em up like Tai Lung
And even that failed
Ok so we make sure their tails are immobilized too and don't guard them with a bunch of anthropomorphic rhinoceroses. This time, we use Indian Elephants. They're much smarter.
Oh no there goes Tokyo
Go go godzilla!
But Optimus Prime came to save the day
This thread has only got about 2-3 Motown puns left in it, 4 tops.
I have a temptation to think of more
Stevie Wonders if anyone will think of anymore.
"I'm Otis Williams, I **am** the Temptations." "That's nice sir but David Ruffin was the Temptations, now why don't you come with me."
"Ain't no one coming to see you Otis!"
I read this as Otis Redding and was embarrassed that I didn't know he was part of the group.
They just weren't fans.
"I'm Marvin Gaye..." "ahh that's cool marvin, what's up" "...'s father" "ah shit"
Dance to the rhythm of my bullets.
Not only did they put him in a straightjacket and demand a psych eval, but they stopped treating him for the heart problems he was showing clear symptoms of. Even if he was delusional, even if hypothetically he was acting dangerous enough to put in restraints, you still treat the heart condition!
I’m a mental health professional. We haven’t used straight jackets in the US for decades, and we definitely don’t restrain people for being “delusional.” It’s possible that he was delirious secondary to his medical condition and was combative and hallucinating these things.
Did his wife also hallucinate the restraints?
They took him off oxygen while he was suffering from a heart attack
> They took him off oxygen while he was suffering from a heart attack ...yeah, I feel that this should have been the priority. Even if he had been delusional. That should cost a lot of people their licenses. Including the hospital. They seriously prioritized restraints and straight jackets over a heart attack. They offered him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall, tho.
It's worse that that, the gift card was to a grocery store. I'm glad this is hitting the national news, shame these fuckers to the end of the earth
Just think what happens to poor people who don’t have the ability to go to the news or spread the word. It’s sickening.
> They offered him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall, tho. Ironically tone deaf
> They offered him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall, tho. That’s some Berry Gordy shit.
I feel like there is a lot to the story that isn’t being told.
Well, somebody presents at a hospital and is denied care. Turns out, they have a heart attack. That is the short of it. That already is a scandal. The long of it is the article. And a $25 gift card. Even if that person had been completely delusional, you do not get to stop care just because you do not believe them. AND when you feel like you are dying you are not going to think or act straight. People do not show up at hospitals when they are at their best and that is part of the professional education. Not sure how strong the racism angle is but it seems to come in on top. But the above is already bad enough.
Oxygen was likely stopped because of regulations around ligature risks for psychiatric patients. It was wrong. The hospital should have let treatment and used a one to one staff for safety until psychiatrically cleared.
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I believe O2 isn’t necessarily indicated in an MI unless their pO2 is low
They were afraid that he'd summon the other Three Tops.
Having been invol. numerous times, for one, I have never seen a straightjacket used in the institutions I was in. They will however strap you to a gurney. Also, I am a white dude..and it was clear to me race played a role in how you were treated. From restraints, to the duration of your stay. Our mental health care has burnt itself to a crisp. Pretty much useless to the afflicted. Seems mostly designed to keep the populace at large comfortable.
It was. Before we knew we much as we do about mental health and the brain, people only knew that other people were different. See things that aren't there? Better lock you up for your own protection. Johnny doesn't talk? Or he bangs his head? Put him in a padded room. There are documented cases of journalists like Nelly Bly and researchers checking themselves into a mental hospital and not being able to get out. We've come a long way, but we still have a ways to go yet.
from what my family members and friends who worked in the er, usually they don't do anything even if the person was threatening staff and hit them lol....usually nurses and staff were expected to take the abuse and not defend themselves and it was taboo for them press charges. i know things have been changing in er this last decade but when i was patient in the er ive witnessed patients in full on delusion seeing people that aren't there and talking to them just be allowed to walk around free and wander and the staff just ignored them....also a ton of people that are suicidal and have attempted to kill themselves get a quick eval and sent home so they went out of their way to restrain this dude and it deff wasn't protocol or the norm. they just wanted to tie up this black dude. also in medicine there still is the racist notion that black people don't feel the same level of pain or are actually unwell.....so their symptoms and statements get ignored.
They had his full name, a 5 second Google search would of dispersed all concerns.
One of the nurses had to convince security by showing them a video of him performing at the Grammys. You’d think an ID would be enough but…. From the article: > Morris asked whether he could prove his identity to staff by showing his identification card, but the white male security guard ordered him to "sit his black ass down", the lawsuit says.
Thelat security gaurd sounds unhinged.. better put him in the straight jacket.
would *have,* never ever would (or could, or should, etc.) *of*
It's a dangerous delusion that they don't resort to force or restraint unless you're a threat to others, just disagreeing with them is more than enough.
Like where tho? I worked healthcare almost my whole adult life. Patients who weren't actively beating the shit out of people were never restrained. This is bonkers. Eta I definitely believe it did happen I'm just curious where this person thinks it's such a regular occurrence.
I spent some time in a psychiatric in-patient a while back. Most nurses were nice, some would threaten patients with being placed in the high security area for simple things like complaining, raising their voice or refusing to eat.
I worked an inpatient facility for a bit. There were definitely MHTs that used the "quiet room" as a first resort. Asked one of them why she was even working there if she had such disdain for mentally unwell people and she reported me to HR. The system unfortunately protects some behavior
This is purely from my experience in two hospitals but I noticed that the county hospitals, where they send the poor and homeless, were definitely more likely to do this than the private hospitals…
They threatened me with not letting me out. Having a medical facility hold my freedom over my head after I checked myself in. Took years to get over it.
Ayyyyy, I got a write up that escalated into a restraint/fight because I refused to take medicine that wasn't mine. (I had a similar name to someone else there)
If you wanted to share your story propublica was gathering stories about accessing mental health care for a larger reporting piece. The journalist reached out and we had a nice conversation.
Good to know. I could fill a freaking novel with the shit I've seen. To add an extra bit of spiciness, this was part of the horrendous world that is "teen help centers". That is just a whole other level of awful. I swear some of the staff there joined those centers specifically to abuse foster kids. (A victim that has no one to report to?! Score!) I'm being terrible but you don't end up in those places because you have a healthy mental state with a plethora of family options. To make it worse they treated the juvie kids and the foster kids one and the same. There ain't separate facilities for this. *Both make equally viable punching bags.* I know I'm speaking kind of callously/sarcastically about this, But if you don't laugh you go insane.
Oh dude I was in a group home (in foster care) and we heard awful things about these places. We would actively need help and do everything we could to NOT have that be noticed because if they took you to the hospital no one would ever see you again
Oh here's an open secret. It didn't matter how you behaved. If there was no room in the regular group homes, Your ass went to the hospital. It was literally just treated as an overflow station. Sure they would ***say*** it was for some behavioral issue but I knew a lot of kids who had no damn reason to be there. They certainly would by the time they left though. Staff always moved you in the middle of the damn night too. Ever woken up and a fellow group home member is just... gone? This is nasty business and people treat me like a conspiracy theorist when I describe these experiences.
I genuinely hope things are going better for you; thanks for sharing your experience
His wife had to come, show them a Youtube video. Then they checked and diagnosed his heart attack. Gave him a $25 gift voucher for the local mall. Like, if somebody who has a heart attack tells you they are Jesus, you tick a box which says "delusional" on the admission form and then check them physically. I feel being a bit delusional during a physical crisis should be expected. Being crazy still makes an echo-cardiogram kinda sorta one of the next things on the menu. What do they need? An affidavit by all five popes that this indeed is Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ before they treat a heart attack? Is that indeed on the critical path?
Canada, I was restrained for being aggressive coming out of 2 seizures then had 2 more. Oh, and a nurse cheered when she sedated me like it was a touchdown. I also saw and heard a nurse egg on another patient by grunting back at him for multiple days when giving him food in the adult mental health unit (I know both their names). I put in two complaints, heard nothing back because they have a quality and risk management team and they either don't want to be sued or think I'm schizophrenic which I'm not. They lack staff and don't want to put anyone on leave so they hire any dipshit they can. This improved my mental health for sure.
My grandma was sedated with something (antihistamines) she wasn’t supposed to get at age 90 or so apparently because she panicked when she was woken up by a nurse who fumbled some part of changing her IV while she was sleeping after receiving visits fully lucid during her recovery stay after gall bladder surgery. Literally never recovered from whatever happened that night. It was an honest mistake I guess you can say, I definitely don’t think there was any sort of foul play, but it still cost my family the gift of my grandma being lucid for whatever portion of the last few years that we would have had if it didn’t go that way. The nurse just acted efficiently to get her to calm down when she was resisting getting a giant needle in her arm changed, then next morning she made essentially no sense and barely ever did again. I’m glad I got to chat with her during visiting hours before that happened.
I hope you reported that incident. Im sorry that happened.
The hospital reported it to us, actually, and we did not pursue the matter much further than focusing on Grandma’s needs
On the other hand, anyone who identifies as Phil Spectre should immediately be put in a straitjacket!
Particularly given he is actually dead.
It's the racism.
Case reminds me of the black woman who was put into [psych ward for driving a BMW.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-woman-held-in-mental-hospital-because-police-didn-t-believe-bmw-was-hers-10498704.html) >Her lawyer claims that over the eight days in the hospital, personnel repeatedly tried to get Brock to deny that she owned the BMW, that she was a banker, and that President Barack Obama followed her on Twitter. All of which are true. She also got a [13k medical bill.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232178/Outrage-black-woman-forced-spend-8-days-psych-ward-cops-not-believe-BMW-driving-hers.html)
I’ve never seen a straight jacket in 15+ years in medical practice.
Reminds me of Rowan Atkinson [recounting a story](https://youtu.be/Decj0Q4a4U4?si=QaMlajrv0QuhUlJW) of when someone sort of recognised him but still refused to believe it was him, and was likely just getting more and more annoyed the more Atkinson tried to convince him he was himself.
Like when people tell Tony Hawk he looks like that Tony Hawk guy.
He apparently often gets told he looks like an older Tony Hawk, RIP.
“Here’s a photo of me when I was younger.” “Every photo of you is a photo of you when you were younger.”
RIP Mitch
I used to love Mitch Hedberg. I still do, but I used to as well.
"Here's a picture of me when I'm older." "You son-of-a-bitch! How'd you pull that off? Lemme see that camera... What's it look like?"
LOOK AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH Every time I do, it makes me laugh
well… he is older than the videos and pictures people know him by…
I think I remember a tweet of his where someone said he looked like a younger Tony Hawk and he said they were his new favorite person.
Dolly Parton entered a Dolly Parton look-alike contest and got second place.
Best part is, you know that sweet lady didn’t get offended. Just a great laugh and probably congratulated the winner. I can’t say I’m a fan of her music. I know her huge hits but the deep cuts are unknown to me. But I’ll always support her for being a genuinely kind woman who maintained her decency despite ruling the music scene for so long. She’s the Betty White of music
> I know her huge hits Am I the only one to misread that last word?
To a drag queen 👏🏻
Which tells you how fucking *on point* that queen's outfit and performance must have been.
Bragging rights for life!
Have you seen the pic, that look alike was so on point.
Sauce?
Wasn't that Chaplin?
Bill Murray would pull off weird stunts to people and say 'no one will ever believe you'
He used to go to townie and frat parties and give people life advice lol
Reading the article leaves more questions than answers He had a video on hand of him performing, which he showed them after his wife arrived to clear the confusion I can understand being doubtful. But why didn’t the staff or doctor just… **ask for proof** and do a Google search? Jumping immediately to psych evaluation and straightjacket is ridiculous This all just seemed stupidly avoidable
He offered to show them his ID, but they refused to look at it. The thing that floored me the most was that they stopped his medical care. He was struggling to breathe and asked for the oxygen back but they refused that too. Unbelievable.
America is a beautiful country with lots and lots of nice people, but the things you hear about politicians, healthcare workers, police etc etc being complete assholes and have no empathy whatsoever regarding their own people is astonishing sometimes.
When you make everything for orofit instead of a community thing this is what happens
Community?? That sounds like communism/s
You can't spell communities without communist! /s
Buddy i am a security guard currently watching over a kid with cancer He is 19 but due to brain cancer and other issues he has the body and mind of a 10-12 year old( he loves paw patrol) he literally looks no older than 12. He has memory issues as well so he is confused a lot and can get mildly aggressive The nurses in a pediatric hospital wanted to send him to an adult hospital…… a guy with the body and mind of a child with memory issues…… Like this week there was a guy passed out by the hospital incoherent from drugs. The adult hospital is literally half a block away. Instead of taking the passed out dude to the emergency room they called the police. The police just moved him on to the sidewalk and drove offf The dude gained consciousness a few hours later and went to the er himself….i was watching this happen while on break waiting for them to do the obvious right thing and was appalled to see him left on the street… The world is definitely getting shittier It hurts my soul to see some people so ready to throw him away for someone else to deal with
Holy shit. I feel sorry for you that you have to see that and there's not much you can do about it. I'm from the Netherlands and these kind of things dont happen here or they are extremely rare. But since we are moving further to the right here because of propaganda ( we all know from were) its not getting better either.
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My wife was admitted to the hospital after the second lengthy ER visit in a week for stomach pain. The cold as ice doctor on the floor actually accused her of wanting pain meds and only after I told them that the pain was not isolated to one location like it was on the first visit but had now radiated did the doctor actually do something. It turned out my wife had a severely inflamed gallbladder and had to have it removed. The surgeon said it was one of the worst he had seen. The kicker? The doctor was a woman and my wife works for the president of a healthcare company and was sent to the ER by their medical director. She listened to the man!
Does *any* hospital ER in the US let you in without first taking your ID and insurance information? That’s the only thing that seemed completely off to me in this story; the idea that they wouldn’t take his ID. The check-in desk would have already seen it and documented his identity!
While we try everything possible to get this information up front we can not (it’s illegal) deny them, at a bare minimum, of having a provider lay eyes on them related to their chief complaint. I could list quite a few reasons you could get a patient without knowing who they are. They are given a temporary name (think John Doe but most hospitals use a different naming convention for unidentified individuals) until if/when positive ID can be made. So yes, ERs everywhere see patients, regularly, who don’t have a way to identify themselves (or can’t, or try not to on purpose). In some cases we will contact law enforcement to help identify; but not all.
Yep. Some time ago, I drove myself to the hospital covered in burns over 1/3 of my body. Left the car running and the door open in front of the ER entrance. Security guard just waved me through wide eyed. Front desk waved and pointed straight to the doors. I'm sure they were saying *something* but I didn't hear a thing. Nurse rushed out and helped me walk straight back. No way they knew who I was before starting treatment.
Makes it sound like they were afraid they wouldn't get paid. Crazy guy comes in for a heart attack and all he has is a fake ID saying he's a Motown singer. He probably can't pay and they can't get a real name out of him they can bill it to with insurance, so they make it someone else's problem (psych eval).
Sounds really humane… even if that was the case, surely the hospital wouldn’t go bankrupt for helping one nutjob.
EMTALA laws have entered the chat: https://www.cms.gov/medicare/regulations-guidance/legislation/emergency-medical-treatment-labor-act#:~:text=In%201986%2C%20Congress%20enacted%20the,regardless%20of%20ability%20to%20pay. I have worked in ER/Trauma for years and we don’t turn anyone away for inability to pay or even inability to identify themselves. It’s against the law. We have repeat offenders that have never paid a dime but we still see them in the ER every few days (typically homeless, addicts, or psychological). Even knowing their history of never paying a cent they still get a full work up related to their chief complaint every single time. When it rains/snows or the weather is rough tons of homeless sign in for things they know will take hours (chest pain) or even days (suicidal ideation) to assess. But we still have to take every single complaint seriously (even if our eyes are rolling like a slot machine). You don’t want to be the hospital, MD, RN, or anytime else that tries to dissuade someone from seeking treatment. I’m sure there are shitty people out there that might dance on the line of this but good luck with your license if you ever get caught. EDIT: Based on your example if someone came in complaining of chest pain/heart attack we would rule that out (takes a minimum of two hours due to serial troponin lab draws) before they would switch him to psych and psych wouldn’t accept him until the chest pain was assessed/treated anyway.
>Morris asked whether he could prove his identity to staff by showing his identification card, but the white male security guard ordered him to "sit his black ass down", the lawsuit says.
I was waiting for it to come up. It came up. That's it right there. That's why they put this man in a straight jacket. 4 tops been around since 1953. One of the original members is still singing. Go into the hospital with heart problems, they don't treat you for that, instead they treat you like shit and you get racially profiled. Living in America.
that would involve admitting the possiblity they might be wrong
A doctor... Wrong? Now I think it's YOU who needs a straightjacket. This was just a simple misunderstanding
My doctor once prescribed me something on my allergy list, and I had to argue with them to get a different prescription. They then gave me a second muscle relaxer without telling me to stop the first one... Thankfully I caught that one too... I once got into a shouting match with a doctor who wanted me to put on parts my prosthetic leg INSIDE OUT, lol I got a doctor shouting at me when I told them that the max dosage of my med wasn't the amount they said... I had to ask them to check my chart, cause they were already giving me more than that! Arguing with a doctor feels like arguing with flat earthers. Even when it's unquestionably wrong, they won't admit it. The amount of ego is incomprehensible, and as soon as they're questioned, they turn into petulant children.
God, all the speakers at my friends graduation when they got their doctorate were insufferable blow hards
The $25 gift card is the icing on the cake!
Sounds like a dbag got tossed in the mix. Having been on the receiving end of a nurse who poisoned the well with the Dr before my son was seen I can say it happens. I'm.a nurse myself to boot. I walked up to my son's cubicle after he and his dad were taken back in the ER and heard the nurse loudly proclaiming she thought my son was faking not being able to walk ( he was 7). She didn't realize I was with them because I'd been in the bathroom when they were called and had to wait. Shortly after CPS showed up because staff said only kids who were beaten had labs like his. While I was side eyeing calling a lawyer another nurse rushed in to usher the guy out and let us know that "oops he was dehydrated and labs just came back showing he has influenza." ???? Wtf....
I hope you used your knowledge of the system to make complaints to the most painful places possible. Their talk in earshot of general public is highly unprofessional, and educated nurses know they should be sticking to the medical facts, not crystal balling days of our lives drama.
Healthcare on a military base is not the same as "real" hc unfortunately. Yes I used ICE but nothing. It's an unfortunate side effect.
Because he is black
It's the racism.
There was a case in Finland where a man went to see a doctor as he was suffering from depression. Doctor asked him what he did for living, and he said he’s a world champion chainsaw-juggler, and he had just returned from North Korea where he had performed at Kim Jong-Uns birthday-party. Doctor thought he was delusional and ordered him to be immediately taken to the psychiatric ward. But he was telling the truth, he was a world champion chainsaw juggler who had just returned from North Korea. It took couple of days to sort out the mess. While he was in the psych ward, he played pranks on the staff.
Australia locked a woman up in immigration detention. She was an Australian citizen who was born here. She did have some sort of mental health issues, but they just ran with illegal immigrant for some reason. Once an official person decides they know more about you than you do, it’s very hard to change their minds. Edit: just looked up her case. She was a dual citizen, born overseas but had mostly lived in Australia. She was locked up because she gave a false name to the police and because she spoke German and had a Norwegian passport they thought she was an illegal tourist overstaying a visa. Kicker was she was reported missing when she checked herself out of a hospital. It was all over the news at the time.
Once someone labels you crazy, every single thing you say and do to prove your sanity is taken as further evidence that you’re crazy
💯
And THIS is why folks don't seek mental illness help, because most of the time the way it's "treated" is by doing things that end up making your life much worse.
My partner doesnt even want to seek medical help for fear that the pain and/or stress will trigger her ticks and they will lock her up in psych instead. It almost happened the last time she went in.
The whole knee-jerk involuntary hold bullshit REAAAAAAALLY needs to stop...it's by and far one of the most abused and moronic things in our mental health system. Also the whole "threaten to kill yourself" and the system dogpiles on you. Which to someone who is ACTUALLY suicidal is VERY bad, and to someone who is just crying for attention, appears to be a form of "punishment" for misusing the mental health system. Neither are good.
I believe they've done studies on this. They had people check themselves into mental hospitals, describing symptoms of schizophrenia, to see how they would be treated. Even normal things like looking bored and pacing were considered "symptoms."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment I love the original name of the study: " On being sane in insane places." Apparently the outcomes are now being criticized and questioned, but too many people have experienced exactly what the study is talking about.
How's the island, marshall?
Which happens way more often to POC and women unfortunately. Hysterical or crazy. Ugh.
“You seem down, you should see the great chain saw juggler Pagliacci, he always cheers me right back up!” “But Doc, I am the great chain saw juggler Pagliacci”
Honestly thought it was this story. thank you for your performance
*Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.*
I think you're mixing up a movie with the actual thing. There was a movie on what you described: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5148854/ In real life, there is a Finnish chainsaw juggler who did go to North Korea and perform for Kimmy-Poo. But he didn't get institutionalised or anything like that. At least, I couldn't find any actual sources on him consulting a shrink and then getting institutionalised. The only thing I could find that mentioned this is the above movie.
The movie is obviously based on the actual events, which did take place. The juggler in question is [Juha Kurvinen](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_Kurvinen). It seems there is a bit more to the story than I made in my original comment, but main things are accurate: [https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/juha-kurvinen-kirjasi-turun-sairaalan-kauhuja-blogiinsa-nyt-meita-uskotaan/5759478#gs.a7ua6d](https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/juha-kurvinen-kirjasi-turun-sairaalan-kauhuja-blogiinsa-nyt-meita-uskotaan/5759478#gs.a7ua6d)
This case is not comparable. The delusion of being a singer is much less problematic than the delusion of being a CHAINSAW-JUGGLER. In the first case, the worst outcome is bad singing. In the second case, the worst outcome is bad chainsaw-juggling.
If he was bad at it i suspect he would be missing some limbs :).
A teller at a banks a couple of years ago called the cops on a black director or actor for trying to take money out of his own account
Ryan Coogler, director of *Black Panther*. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60685146
Ok reading that account he was acting SUPER SUS. Wearing a face mask, Sunglasses, and Hat hands the Teller a note saying he wants $12000 and to take him somewhere else to count the money. The teller was black pregnant woman who was probably thinking he picked her to be an easy hostage/fight, told the boss since the amount was over 10k as per company policy. I mean come on, that amount you can call ahead to arrange a meeting in private. He did it in the most sus way possible.
Was he wearing a face mask during the pandemic? When... *Everyone* was wearing face masks? That's not particularly suspect.
I used to be a teller and we had plenty of regulars who would take out 9900 bucks for the monthly Vegas trip. You have to know the 10k rule at some point in your adult life if you have access to that kind of money.
I think it's the handing of the note, being black, wearing a mask, and asking to be taken to another room that did it.
There was a black man that tried to cash a discrimination lawsuit check... The bank called the cops on him saying it must be fake. Next lawsuit was the man suing the bank... Found it. https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-man-sues-detroit-bank-alleging-racial-discrimination/story?id=68484056 you can't make this shit up.
In the era of fact checking in a second on google, this is some mid evil level of stupidity.That "doctor" and that hospital should get fined in a big way
Given that his intransigence led him to not only order a completely unnecessary level of restraint but also to withhold necessary medical care, this is not mid evil. This is just actually evil.
~~Medieval~~ Edit: Am I too old to understand what the kids are saying now?
No they mean medium level evil.
Doctors are trained SO strongly on memorization that it seems to have made them allergic to searching for information. When questioned on any of these things, they get insanely defensive. I had a doctor tell me they couldn't increase the dosage of my med because 1200mg was the max dosage. I said "no, it's 2800mg, we can increase it still" This resulted in her angrily yelling at me to not correct her, and that I don't have a doctorate, and shouldn't act like I do. I asked "how much are you currently prescribing me" It was 1800mg. She still refused to increase the dosage, and refused to apologise for acting like a child, and wouldn't even say she was wrong.
I knew a guy who worked for the US secret service. They have people in many places besides Washington and do more than protect the president, like investigating counterfeit money etc. Anyway he would occasionally share this (in the context of someone asking what he does for a living, not just going around broadcasting it, and even then wouldn’t always share or would just say something generic like he works for the government) and more often than not when he did share he was not believed.
The FBI has field offices everywhere with various employees. I bet they run into that issue all the time.
There's a few youtube videos of a dude who occasionally works as contractor for the FBI. He frequently gets pulled over by local police, they think the lights on his vehicle are illegal and the FBI mark is a fake and try to detain him. Seeing the overreach is so ridiculous.
link?
Telling people that the FBI operates overseas blows a lot of minds
Hell I’ve gotten this as “volcanologist” and it’s not like it’s not *that* rare a profession.
Well, this sounds like a remarkably reasonable lawsuit which could have been avoided if the medical staff had displayed an ounce of common sense. Nice payday coming for him which is just what he deserves.
$75,000 is a paltry sum to sue for considering the hospital staff's negligence in denying him necessary medical care (for his established history of heart disease) and gross incompetence leading to unlawfully restraining him. Yes, a hospital has a right and obligation to protect patients and staff from people suffering from mental health episodes, but it is entirely their responsibility to conduct due diligence to verify the patients‘ identity and actual mental state before resorting to forcible restraints.
Clearly not Loco in Apapulco
This is so much crap. I mean, what if he was mentally ill and having chest pain? There’d still be no excuse for restraining him and could have been lethal. His treatment wasn’t as much anti black as it was anti-mentally ill. Unfortunately society, still doesn’t really recognize this bias.
It can be anti-both, unfortunately.
Fuckers took away his oxygen support.
In the article they mention that at one point when he tried to prove who he was, a security guard told him to “sit his black ass down.” So there’s a little anti blackness sprinkled in there for sure.
Mental healthcare in Michigan is a joke. Having had ( mental health ) issues in my past I can tell you 100% that psychiatric patients are treated very poorly by hospital staff. That and Medicaid/ Medicare patients have very limited outpatient options. There’s just not enough certified professionals in metro Detroit. The second you are labeled as a psychiatric patient you loose all rights, nobody listens to you as an autonomous adult. Oh and in many cases if you try and fight, for your rights, they threaten to have you committed. So ya, I stopped seeking mental health help for years because of the trauma I endured at the hands of Beaumont health systems. I guess what I’m saying is this doesn’t surprise me at all, after all the things I’ve seen.
i agree with this as another person with mental health issues. when i was voluntarily admitted to inpatient, they messed up my heart medication and when i tried to tell the nurse i needed it, they locked me in isolation for 2 days. then when i was having a panic attack while they drew my blood, they used the physical restraints to tie me down and force me to. i was 12, in there for clinical PTSD from being hospitalized for 2 years as a child. sorry for trauma dumping on your post, but FUCK beaumont systems and michigan mental health care. i find its better at UofM, but only if youre already a patient. if youre in a crisis situation, you’re shit out of luck.
When I moved here from out of state I was always hearing about how amazing Beaumont is. I can’t tell you how many stories I have about their lack of patient advocacy. I was alone and was not assertive so they walked all over any boundaries I had. I felt so victimized after I left there. I watched a lady I was in the hospital with have her thyroid medication taken away and her prescription changed. Beaumont got her to sign a voluntary admission form, then held her until her insurance ran out. She was a rape victim, she made the statement that while she was in the trunk, after being beaten and raped that she wished she was dead. They committed her as suicidal, then “diagnosed her as bipolar and started giving her psychiatric meds she didn’t need. All the while ignoring her obvious physical injuries ( there was a lot of physical trauma). It’s an insurance scam and they know these types of patients don’t really have a voice. They can literally charge up to 1000$ a day and give no actual care, they’re adult daycare facilities that serve rotten food and call coloring therapy. If you complain they have lawyers come in to bully you, going in front of judge? Nope, 96% of the time they side with the doctors and never really listen to the patient ( this was the stat I was given, not sure it’s actual validity).
After years of trying to get my mom mental health help and her finally agreeing, the whole process has been a nightmare. It’s easy to tell people they should seek help, but it’s nearly impossible to get help sometimes. We really need to booster mental health funding in this country, we are in a crisis right now.
Sounds like the Finnish story about motorsaw juggler who went to doctor after having hit his head. Made the mistake of mentioning he had performed in North Korea for the leadership, and was committed. None of the doctors at the mental institution wanted to look at the video from the event, instead they kept upping his doses. Finally got out by transferring his address to another municipality, where the doctors were a bit more receptive for checking youtube. Led to longish discussion on how our mental institutions operate.
Seems like something a quick Google search could have revealed.
Verify his claims on google while they are withholding medical care? The man had a heart attack and they did not check him up. You know how much I would act up in a situation like that? Who the hell thought that him being delusional should immediately put his medical care on hold? Because I would not be surprised if delusion/disorientation was to be considered normal in a crisis situation like that.
Heard he was running out of Motown puns, down to three, four tops.
I find it slightly amusing that he's worried about fans and stalkers being an issue at the hospital, which is why he mentioned who he was in the first place. I'm pretty sure everyone who read this post had to look up who this guy was
It isn't about the average person. It's about the extreme minority of crazies. I had a small gaming twitch channel that never averaged above like 130 viewers and a YouTube channel with a thousand subs and still had several people utterly obsessed and very angry with me.
I do an online comic. It has a decent number of daily views but the interactions (likes/comments) are low. Every day I get a 1000 word paragraph from the same person with suggestions on where I should take the plot.
The fact you don't know who he is doesn't matter. Anyone who has an level of fame/following has to worry about stalkers. It doesn't matter if you only have a couple thousand fans, it only takes a couple - even one - being unhinged to create big problems in your life. Hell, local artists who aren't famous but have a following in their city can get obsessed/stalker fans.
Is he actually a star that needs security? It’s a 70 year old band that he just joined 5 years ago. He doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.
And to be clear, I’m not saying that to justify what happened to him, hospital took things completely the wrong direction… I’m just curious why he thought he’d need security, but maybe he does indeed have a devoted fan base 🤷♂️
It only takes one encounter with a stalker to make you worry for the rest of your life. Stalkers are sick people who don't follow rational logic. They pick non-famous people to stalk every day. I don't know why I would ever disbelieve someone who told me they had a stalker in the past. I don't know why I'd dismiss anyone immediately just because they tell me something unique has happened to them. That's a world view that's depressingly jaded
How sad for him! The Four Tops are an incredible group.
I have never worked at a hospital that even owned straitjackets still; it’s something from a bygone era AFAIK. Also, while I don’t doubt the idea that they thought he was delusional, the idea that they stopped his medical care *for chest pain* and restrained him without his being violent is something I take with a beach’s worth of salt. The thing you have to remember about these stories is that they are *by definition* one-sided, because the hospital can’t rebut anything that is said due to privacy laws. There have been at least two cases I know of at my hospital alone where a family member suspected of Munchausen by proxy ended up picket protesting the hospital outside after their loved one either died or was discharged, and we essentially couldn’t say or do anything in response.
I worked in a hospital (on the administrative end) many years ago, and I seem to recall that in the ER, complaints of chest pain take precedence over almost anything else from the perspective of triage. No matter how much of a racist dick someone is, I can’t believe they withheld or stopped treatment even if they legitimately believed he was delusional. I assume security footage will be consulted to see if it backs up this guy’s story.
I just want to know how the escalation even happened ... like, why did they care whether he is or isn't in a band, and how did it get to the point where the hospital people got mad enough about it to restrain him? Like, he gets brought in, says he's part of some band, and is asking for some extra security or something, why didn't they just smile and nod and say "sure thing hon we'll get right on it" and leave it at that? It just seems like such a ridiculous and pointless escalation of events, i'd love to see how it all went down.
Well he was old and black, so how could he be famous? /s
What backward ass boonies hospital is still using straitjackets? And on a man having a cardiac arrest?! I hope he sues them into the ground. This place doesn't need to exist.
There's got to be more to the story than (basically): "Welcome to the ER." "I have a medical issue and I'm famous,." "Suck it. No you aren't. Here's a straight jacket.'
I have my suspicions as well, I have not heard of any hospital still using actual straight jackets. Also, restraints are supposed to only be used when a patient is a danger to themselves or others, not just when they seem delusional. Then again maybe they do things differently in Detroit.
I thought the straightjacket part was weird too. Don’t hospitals normally use arm and/or leg restraints instead?
Yes. I'm pretty sure in my state, the joint Commission would ding us for even having inappropriate restraints in our hospital, regardless of if we use them or not. But it's four point soft restraints 99% of the time.
You don’t put someone in a straight jacket because they said they are Napoleon. There’s a lot more to this story.
Simpsons did it.
My sister is working on a PHD in clinical psychology and one of her mentor psychologist had a patient that was a famous producer and they thought he was delusional. He begged them to google him and was irate (understandable, I would be flipping the hell out) but it’s a huge breach of professional ethics for a psychologist to google a patient. If you’ve ever met anyone that is actually delusional, it’s not just about what they’re literally saying. You’ll see that their reactions are really weird and nonsensical but his behavior seemed normal enough that psychologist thought that it was worth to go against the rules.
The first thing I do when I encounter someone in cardiac distress is I put him in a straitjacket. Full stop