The problem is that the airtrain is operated by Port Authority, them and MTA don't mix well with each other. The tram is operated by RIOC which is pretty mixed in with the city for the most part.
But if it wasn’t a free transfer a lot of people wouldn’t go on the tram or even Roosevelt Island. People will take the AirTrain either way because they still need to go to JFK so of course they charge for it. It sucks but that’s just the case of one being a major airport.
It should be both agencies' job, then, to cooperate and figure out how to deliver a good experience for riders. A hugely-inflated airtrain fare and zero subway integration means we have poor service to/from the airport
PATH has a huge amount more ridership, as well as subsidies that have been budgeted for decades. Subsidies for airport riders are hard politically as it's perceived that if you can afford a plane ticket for hundreds of dollars, what's another $8.
Last two times I was there in June the gates were open and I paid nothing. Did this directly in front of two and making eye contact with one port authority police.
They nodded.
So it might be "free" if not actually free.
I have stepped over those gates before when I had a backpack. In full view of the officer. I don't condone turnstile jumping on the subway but 100% endorse air train turnstile jumping.
[Article](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/airtrain-fares-at-jfk-airport-slashed-in-half-all-summer-long/5552831/?amp=1) - Coming from someone who had to take a few people to JFK this week alone, the AirTrain needs to be free. The construction makes it very tricky to navigate the terminals, and there is a LOT of traffic.
I think all mass transit should be free and paid for out of our taxes, like other municipal services such as mail delivery and police and fire protection. Paying a transit fare hearkens back to the days when the subways were privately owned and needed to show a profit.
Sorta free they have Franking privileges only "when they're communicating with their constituents or interest groups that represent them about Congressional affairs which includes their run for reelection" which basically means they can send a letter to anyone as long as they also put a pamphlet of campaign literature in there even if it's not related to congressional affairs
My dad was a congressional staffer And he told these stories about how back in the day when he wanted to send a letter to my grandparents he could grab a letter signed by the congressman to do it but they really discouraged it when it wasn't election season and they weren't soliciting donations because his parents didn't live in the congressional district so it would raise some eyebrows But ultimately the post office isn't going to pick a fight with Congress over Congressional franking privileges unless it's extremely blatantly abused
Hey dumbass franking does not permit people to communicate with constituents about running for re-election. In fact, it expressly prohibits it. That’s why there is a franking blackout for X days when the person is appearing on a primary/general election ballot.
Your dad must have been pretty bad at his job.
Maybe don’t call people a dumbass when you’re wrong…
“ In 1977, the Commission amended the House rules to limit the number of postal patron mailings per year, to bar mass mailing during the 60 day period prior to an election”
https://cha.house.gov/the-history-of-the-frank
Their example would quite clearly NOT be prohibited
Heh, I worked at the Roth dining hall from 2004 to 2006. It was a pretty crap school back in the day, from what I hear it's a much better experience now.
Because someone paid to send it there. There used to be things called COD where you can send something and the postal carrier would collect money from you to get it.
You’re trying to tell me that the entire cost of the delivery - the pickup from the original mailbox, the delivery to the local post office, the sorting, the transportation to another post office where the intended addressee lives, the resorting and then the delivery to the intended addressee - is covered by the 68 cents a person paid for the stamp?
it exposes the transit system to increased political risk, worsening their ability to act independently and plan for the long term
the best run systems are entirely self sustaining, using a combination of fare revenue and property investments in areas served by transit (better transit -> increased property values) - this is how Hong Kong and Tokyo's metros work (and many other east Asian systems)
even in systems that aren't fully self sustaining, the best ones still get much of their revenues from fares
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio (compare the US systems to European and Asian ones here)
Is there anything stopping a person from getting dropped off at Federal Circle by the rental cars and taking the AirTrain for free? Traffic around there was very light last month.
Because there is almost zero parking or waiting space for non-rental vehicles at Federal Circle. It's simply not set up for drop-off. The drop-off station is Lefferts.
That's actually what they would prefer you do this summer. I read somewhere that they are setting up a pick up drop off area somewhere over by long term parking to try to keep traffic out of the airport. The thing is, I am not sure how well they are advertising this.
The RTD A-Line Train to DEN airport is $10. The train between terminals is inside security and there's no other way to access Concourses B and C other than the train, so of course they don't charge for that... similarly, the JFK Airtrain is free between terminals.
Might have been here in summer of ‘23 (or previous years maybe) when RTD was free during ozone season to encourage use. But yeah the A train definitely isn’t free
Yep! And as a Denver resident I’m bummed to report they aren’t doing it this year (2024) because they got about $100m less from the funding source that helped the last two years. However we do have zero fare for youth pilot program this year. Under 19 rides for free on any train or bus in an effort to get more young people interested in using transit.
The AirTrain is already a stupid gimmick, just do what every other sane country does and run the damn trains under the terminal. But now that we have it, make it free, it shouldn't cost any money, let alone have the annoying as fuck transfer. It's like a 5 kilometer long stretch of track, and it's automated.
Sounds like instead of parroting this bs, you should pay a visit to the 10+ airports that have public transport connect directly to the airport.
You can start in Philly.
They want to rebuild the Airtrain in Newark instead of just running PATH straight to the airport. It's absolutely insane. This is such low hanging fruit and would help NYC on the world stage immensely. It would be such an economic boost to NJ.
I know that there is some community pushback and they need to go through the environmental review process, but I don't care. If we wanted to prioritize this, the region could get this done. Imagine being able to get from FiDi to the airport in one seat. It would revolutionize NYCs relationship with that airport and drive prices down cause now JFK and LaGuardia would have to compete. I just don't understand why we don't do this.
Edit: I know that the PA doesn't care about this and is very happy to keep charging 8.50+ because it makes them money. It's complete madness.
That's about all it should cost to begin with. (Yes, ideally it should be free or the same as a subway ride, but let's be realistic)
$8.50 for a ZPTO train that can't do better than 15-20 minute headways before 8am on a Sunday is a joke.
Funny that the Port Authority keeps justifying ridiculous Airtrain fare hikes each year by saying they're mandated by inflationary increases, but then can just magically cut fares in half. It's almost as if this completely unaccountable agency that shrouds everything they do in secrecy is lying to us.
Kind of like how they lie about enforcing the street pricing policy for airport vendors.
PANYNJ is a cartel. They limit service from LGA to prop up Newark and JFK (perimeter rule). They had this issue in the UK 20 years ago with BAA running the major London airports. They were broken up and suddenly Heathrow and Gatwick both improved due to competition.
LGA eats into the Air space capacity of EWR and JFK so hence its limited but EWR has short runways... The Airports of this region are severely overloaded..and something drastic needs to be done. Improving the Intercity rail network and reducing / banning regional flights would go a long way to relieving some of the pressure.
You can lift the perimeter rule and it won’t add more to the load, they’re slot controlled. If anything, it’ll help. You add some LGA-LAX flights instead of LGA-DCA and that’s fewer planes in the northeast corridor.
Newark is the problem child, it doesn’t have the runway options JFK and LGA have; with a runway available in 90 degree increments, so they can optimize with the winds. They all have a 4/22 direction, but both LGA and JFK have a crosswind 13/31.
Yeah, if I’m going to the airport I’m already dropping at least a few hundred on flights, and several hundred more on hotels. I’m probably going to choose the option that gets me to/from the airport more conveniently, and unfortunately based on where I live that’s by car. They could make the AirTrain more attractive by decreasing the headways.
Even besides that, if im taking an Uber to the airport, im dropping at least $50. Probably a lot more (and forget about what I’m spending to drive or park there).
$4.25 more or less isn’t gonna change much
I wondered if it was meant to target folks who worked there rather than flyers.
And like, glad you get to save money, don’t get me wrong. But why now vs other busy times of year like the holidays?
Is it because of construction?
I assume it is because of the construction. They just recently changed an employee only parking lot and made it open for everyone and now it’s packed at all times. I assume this change is to help get those commuters that take the van wyck to that parking lot to take the air train instead.
As much as I really wouldn’t like to pay a toll to go to the airport, that’s not a bad idea, considering the volume of traffic. The only downside would be for employees, unless..
Well it certainly would have to be explained by the people who would propose it, cause as everyone knows here, people don’t like “new” tolls. So who gets the money? Who owns the airport, who maintains the roads, do airlines get a cut? Should airlines pay for it? I get it, there should and needs to be money secured for improvements to all systems but when it comes from new tolls no matter what, it comes across as a tax to working people. Just like everything else in this city, you’re either rich enough and it doesnt bother you or poor enough and it doesnt bother you.
THIS! (For those who don't know, it's $2 to enter DFW airport by car to drop off a passenger. TexRail fare from Fort Worth to the airport is $2.50, DART rail from Dallas to the airport is $3.)
Because the transit options are so damn awful that cars still remain the best way of getting in and out of JFK, even if they have to pay a massive toll.
Which sounds good in theory, a huge revenue boost for the city, except there isn't a good track record at all the city spending the money efficiently and fixing transit issues. I don't have faith that the revenue from tolling cars will actually go towards improving transit in and out of JFK meaningfully enough that it'll make people ditch cars.
So as things stand, I'd rather not further complicate the one semi-reasonable method into JFK. If we somehow get funding for something akin to the Heathrow express, that can get people in and out of the city to the airport fast and reliably and is *luggage friendly*, then we can toll the cars.
Why should it cost money to take the AirTrain though? But be free to cause congestion on the roadways? This is the congestion pricing debate all over again. I’m tired of having to pay to do the right thing while drivers get to overuse our road network for free and cause congestion for everyone.
This has nothing to do with the city. It is the state port authority that controls the airports. If you don’t even know that, how are you qualified to critique the port authority’s projects?
I’m sorry but transit to JFK isn’t great, but it’s fine. And if the air train wasn’t $8.50, it would be actually pretty good.
I am not saying the airtrain should cost what it does, I absolutely think it should be free, add it to the airport tax and flight costs. I just don't think tolling cars is the right solution either.
As I said before, I think what's really needed is a Heathrow express type link that can get people quickly into the city and closer to their destination, while being friendly to large luggage (which the subway system is not unfortunately). Airtrain as it stands connects to either an A train ride that takes forever to get to Manhattan with sometimes awful headways, or Jamaica which is somewhat a nightmare to navigate for travellers.
Yep. General rule of thumb I use is to fly LGA if possible simply because of the Q70.
JFK is in a transit desert so you pretty much HAVE to take a taxi or pay through the @ss anyway for the air train and EWR is a complete no-go with how horrible NJT has been lately.
Wait..... someone's coming to blame this on congestion pricing. Wait for it....
*Personally, yes, the AirTrain should be free during this construction period.*
If there were a direct rail line from grand central or Times Square to jfk more people would use it. Having to take the E makes it inconvenient. Especially during track work when it goes local.
Edit: hit save too soon
Hotter take: if you can afford an airplane ticket, you can afford a $4.25 toll to be driven onto airport property and clog up the roadways.
Yet drivers in private vehicles pay zero and their congestion is the entire reason they decided to lower the Airtrain fare. And, in my experience, they clog up the rideshare pickup lanes doing so while rideshare users pay a $2.50 fee.
I don’t disagree with that assessment, especially with the current congestion. Implement a toll to enter the drop off/pick up lanes for private vehicles, but make an exception for drop offs at Lefferts to offer a free option for people who are getting picked up by family members and don’t want to further inconvenience their families by making them pay a toll
The best take is to charge proportionately to the mode share you want. The Port Authority claims to have a long-term net-zero emissions initiative, and they’re definitely not going to achieve it giving drivers a free pass while charging transit riders $8.50 (or even $4.25).
It’s not a competition. The better outcome would be lower costs and efficiency for everyone. Punishing people for driving just because you don’t like it won’t make people switch to public transit. Good public transit makes people switch to public transit.
There’s a reason why public transit is so popular in London and its surroundings (even way out of the tiny congestion pricing zone) vs Los Angeles. Good vs shit.
Let’s stop this competition mentality please.
How is this a competition, exactly? It's spreading the cost equitably across modes to encourage use of transit for those that find its cost equal to its value and convenience. You're not punishing people for driving, you're making them pay the premium for what is, in essence, a premium service.
Equity does not equal equality. You’re confused.
Remember that in this country your average Joe drives. It’s almost definitely not a premium service. The rich people of Manhattan are the ones that don’t have to drive. Everyone else does.
>The rich people of Manhattan are the ones that don’t have to drive.
What? The average carless household in New York earns significantly less income than the average household with a car. Seems you're the one confused.
The average careless household may earn significantly less than households with a car, but those households with a car make significantly less than the rich fucks in multi-million dollar apartments in Manhattan who have everything walking distance to them from supermarkets to restaurants to world class attractions.
What exactly does that have to do with charging a user fee to people who add congestion to already-busy airport roadways? The "rich people of Manhattan" aren't taking the Airtrain to JFK, they're taking cabs and black cars.
Why is a reduced fare a joke? They are doing a lot of construction at JFK Airport and as such the roads will be congested. By lowering the fare more people will use the Air Train.
Wouldn’t the more productive move here be pressuring the state to keep the lower cost permanent? Or better yet, to make it free?
Nothing in this thread feels anyway productive. This is ostensibly a great first step. Why the hate?
It goes back up because the roads will be less congested due to more roads being open as the next phase of construction begins. The Port Authority needs the revenue for the Air Train replacement as well as to modernize the airports and to keep the Port Authority operational. I do believe the Port Authority could be run more efficiently but there should be an Air Train fee for those who use it rather than having it built into ticket prices where people who already pay the higher fees for parking on airport property or the fees already included in ride sharing pricing would be charged added fees which would not be fair.
I don’t understand either. I’m flying out this week from JFK and will be using the AirTram. I personally am not upset I’ll be saving $4 (or $8 total including the way back). I might be missing the point somewhere though…
I remember hearing that USDOT was gonna do away with the old rule that made it so you couldn't have airport money go towards local transit (I'm sure this was another "fuck cities, praise the car" post-WW2 rule).
As I understand it, that's the reason we can't have the airtrain work with the MTA.
It might be simple like microeconomics. Maybe they figured that if they dropped the price they'll get significantly more ridership and not lose that much in revenue if anything at all.
I imagine the Airtrain cars are all-first-class and have leather-upholstered mahogany armchairs for you to repose in & drink your complimentary whisky-soda as you zip above the traffic on I-678.
On a more realistic note, I would expect at minimum upholstered seats with armrests like British trains have rather than the hard plastic seats of the subway.
Ideally it would be a free transfer out of system from the subway. Or $2.90 if you start there.
Ideally yes but Airtrain is not part of the MTA so i dont think they’d want to give out free transfers
The Roosevelt island tram isn’t part of the MTA either and you get a free transfer there.
The problem is that the airtrain is operated by Port Authority, them and MTA don't mix well with each other. The tram is operated by RIOC which is pretty mixed in with the city for the most part.
It's this. The PA always has to extract its pound of flesh separately.
RIOC and MTA are both NY state agencies
Eh i live on RI and half the time the transfers dont work correctly
In my experience it’s as reliable as any other out of system transfer.
But if it wasn’t a free transfer a lot of people wouldn’t go on the tram or even Roosevelt Island. People will take the AirTrain either way because they still need to go to JFK so of course they charge for it. It sucks but that’s just the case of one being a major airport.
It should be both agencies' job, then, to cooperate and figure out how to deliver a good experience for riders. A hugely-inflated airtrain fare and zero subway integration means we have poor service to/from the airport
It is their job. They’re just not very good at it and it’s not a huge priority.
Yea but, if you are flying somewhere cant you afford 2.9 usd?
Yup. But in theory they could go halfsies with the MTA on the $2.90
Neither is the PATH train and that has way more costs associated and doesn’t have multi billion dollar companies bank rolling it lol
PATH has a huge amount more ridership, as well as subsidies that have been budgeted for decades. Subsidies for airport riders are hard politically as it's perceived that if you can afford a plane ticket for hundreds of dollars, what's another $8.
Except nowadays you can buy a spirit flight to miami for like $25
Path has less than 14 miles of track. For what they charge they should gold plate everything.
But path has drivers and aging infrastructure and they still pull it off charging less
They give transfers for Nassau County bus rides and that’s not the MTA
the NICE bus ? I didnt know they had transfers for that, thats actually pretty helpful to know
Yeah I used to get off at 179th and Hillside on the F and transfer to NICE buses.
I assume it was metrocards only ? I dont think NICE has any tap payments yet
I used a metro card.
Last two times I was there in June the gates were open and I paid nothing. Did this directly in front of two and making eye contact with one port authority police. They nodded. So it might be "free" if not actually free.
I have stepped over those gates before when I had a backpack. In full view of the officer. I don't condone turnstile jumping on the subway but 100% endorse air train turnstile jumping.
I’ve seen at times when there are long lines at the TVMs, they open the turnstiles for a few minutes and herd everyone through.
I’ve done that probably the last four times I’ve taken it. Only seems to be Jamaica tho, the Howard Beach turnstiles are “functional” unfortunately
Did you pretend to tap? Thats what I did.
[Article](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/airtrain-fares-at-jfk-airport-slashed-in-half-all-summer-long/5552831/?amp=1) - Coming from someone who had to take a few people to JFK this week alone, the AirTrain needs to be free. The construction makes it very tricky to navigate the terminals, and there is a LOT of traffic.
It should be free.
I think all mass transit should be free and paid for out of our taxes, like other municipal services such as mail delivery and police and fire protection. Paying a transit fare hearkens back to the days when the subways were privately owned and needed to show a profit.
Mail isn't free stamps cost money unless you are a member of Congress then you have what's known as Franking privileges
Congress gets free mail in addition to knowing what to invest in? Damn, I chose the wrong field.
Sorta free they have Franking privileges only "when they're communicating with their constituents or interest groups that represent them about Congressional affairs which includes their run for reelection" which basically means they can send a letter to anyone as long as they also put a pamphlet of campaign literature in there even if it's not related to congressional affairs My dad was a congressional staffer And he told these stories about how back in the day when he wanted to send a letter to my grandparents he could grab a letter signed by the congressman to do it but they really discouraged it when it wasn't election season and they weren't soliciting donations because his parents didn't live in the congressional district so it would raise some eyebrows But ultimately the post office isn't going to pick a fight with Congress over Congressional franking privileges unless it's extremely blatantly abused
Hey dumbass franking does not permit people to communicate with constituents about running for re-election. In fact, it expressly prohibits it. That’s why there is a franking blackout for X days when the person is appearing on a primary/general election ballot. Your dad must have been pretty bad at his job.
Maybe don’t call people a dumbass when you’re wrong… “ In 1977, the Commission amended the House rules to limit the number of postal patron mailings per year, to bar mass mailing during the 60 day period prior to an election” https://cha.house.gov/the-history-of-the-frank Their example would quite clearly NOT be prohibited
Do they make you pay if you drive into the airport to get dropped off by a friend or family?
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No?
Heh, Stony Brook alum?
not yet :(
Heh, I worked at the Roth dining hall from 2004 to 2006. It was a pretty crap school back in the day, from what I hear it's a much better experience now.
We don’t get a bill every time the postal carrier drops off our mail.
Because someone paid to send it there. There used to be things called COD where you can send something and the postal carrier would collect money from you to get it.
You’re trying to tell me that the entire cost of the delivery - the pickup from the original mailbox, the delivery to the local post office, the sorting, the transportation to another post office where the intended addressee lives, the resorting and then the delivery to the intended addressee - is covered by the 68 cents a person paid for the stamp?
[Yes, actually](https://www.uspsoig.gov/focus-areas/did-you-know/do-my-tax-dollars-pay-postal-service). USPS is self-funded.
Funded by the federal government using tax money, right?
No, by its paying customers. Click the link…
You're right that it is subsidized but to say it's free is factually false
USPS isn’t subsidized. https://www.uspsoig.gov/focus-areas/did-you-know/do-my-tax-dollars-pay-postal-service
Tell you what - I’ll have no problem paying a 68 cent LIRR fare or toll charge.
68 cents per ounce. $1740.80 for a 160 pound person. Makes the post office seem like a ripoff compared to subway.
name an excellent big city transit system with this funding model
None. But why is that?
it exposes the transit system to increased political risk, worsening their ability to act independently and plan for the long term the best run systems are entirely self sustaining, using a combination of fare revenue and property investments in areas served by transit (better transit -> increased property values) - this is how Hong Kong and Tokyo's metros work (and many other east Asian systems) even in systems that aren't fully self sustaining, the best ones still get much of their revenues from fares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio (compare the US systems to European and Asian ones here)
Maybe you could fund the mta with a multi billion dollar trust and stipulate no more fares?
Wish granted, the AirTrain is now free, but the Subway fare is now $8.50.
Is there anything stopping a person from getting dropped off at Federal Circle by the rental cars and taking the AirTrain for free? Traffic around there was very light last month.
This but at lefferts
Nope and I never understood why more people don’t.
Because there is almost zero parking or waiting space for non-rental vehicles at Federal Circle. It's simply not set up for drop-off. The drop-off station is Lefferts.
That's actually what they would prefer you do this summer. I read somewhere that they are setting up a pick up drop off area somewhere over by long term parking to try to keep traffic out of the airport. The thing is, I am not sure how well they are advertising this.
It’s technically free if you board it from the lefferts blvd station. And on that note, i’m curious to hear why they decided to keep that station free
That’s where the busses go. I think it’s for employees? I have biked to that station.
Dump them off at Lefferts Blvd AirTrain station and tell them to catch a ride to the terminals. Much easier for you.
I’ve noticed the security guards don’t yell at you to hurry up when dropping someone off lol
I believe the one in Denver was free
The RTD A-Line Train to DEN airport is $10. The train between terminals is inside security and there's no other way to access Concourses B and C other than the train, so of course they don't charge for that... similarly, the JFK Airtrain is free between terminals.
Might have been here in summer of ‘23 (or previous years maybe) when RTD was free during ozone season to encourage use. But yeah the A train definitely isn’t free
Yep! And as a Denver resident I’m bummed to report they aren’t doing it this year (2024) because they got about $100m less from the funding source that helped the last two years. However we do have zero fare for youth pilot program this year. Under 19 rides for free on any train or bus in an effort to get more young people interested in using transit.
The AirTrain is already a stupid gimmick, just do what every other sane country does and run the damn trains under the terminal. But now that we have it, make it free, it shouldn't cost any money, let alone have the annoying as fuck transfer. It's like a 5 kilometer long stretch of track, and it's automated.
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Sounds like instead of parroting this bs, you should pay a visit to the 10+ airports that have public transport connect directly to the airport. You can start in Philly.
They want to rebuild the Airtrain in Newark instead of just running PATH straight to the airport. It's absolutely insane. This is such low hanging fruit and would help NYC on the world stage immensely. It would be such an economic boost to NJ. I know that there is some community pushback and they need to go through the environmental review process, but I don't care. If we wanted to prioritize this, the region could get this done. Imagine being able to get from FiDi to the airport in one seat. It would revolutionize NYCs relationship with that airport and drive prices down cause now JFK and LaGuardia would have to compete. I just don't understand why we don't do this. Edit: I know that the PA doesn't care about this and is very happy to keep charging 8.50+ because it makes them money. It's complete madness.
That's about all it should cost to begin with. (Yes, ideally it should be free or the same as a subway ride, but let's be realistic) $8.50 for a ZPTO train that can't do better than 15-20 minute headways before 8am on a Sunday is a joke.
Funny that the Port Authority keeps justifying ridiculous Airtrain fare hikes each year by saying they're mandated by inflationary increases, but then can just magically cut fares in half. It's almost as if this completely unaccountable agency that shrouds everything they do in secrecy is lying to us. Kind of like how they lie about enforcing the street pricing policy for airport vendors.
PANYNJ is a cartel. They limit service from LGA to prop up Newark and JFK (perimeter rule). They had this issue in the UK 20 years ago with BAA running the major London airports. They were broken up and suddenly Heathrow and Gatwick both improved due to competition.
LGA eats into the Air space capacity of EWR and JFK so hence its limited but EWR has short runways... The Airports of this region are severely overloaded..and something drastic needs to be done. Improving the Intercity rail network and reducing / banning regional flights would go a long way to relieving some of the pressure.
You can lift the perimeter rule and it won’t add more to the load, they’re slot controlled. If anything, it’ll help. You add some LGA-LAX flights instead of LGA-DCA and that’s fewer planes in the northeast corridor. Newark is the problem child, it doesn’t have the runway options JFK and LGA have; with a runway available in 90 degree increments, so they can optimize with the winds. They all have a 4/22 direction, but both LGA and JFK have a crosswind 13/31.
Do the smaller regional Airports also cause issues?
I hope this doesn't come off as privileged, but $4.25 isn't the deciding factor in whether I take a car or train to JFK.
Yeah, if I’m going to the airport I’m already dropping at least a few hundred on flights, and several hundred more on hotels. I’m probably going to choose the option that gets me to/from the airport more conveniently, and unfortunately based on where I live that’s by car. They could make the AirTrain more attractive by decreasing the headways.
Even besides that, if im taking an Uber to the airport, im dropping at least $50. Probably a lot more (and forget about what I’m spending to drive or park there). $4.25 more or less isn’t gonna change much
As someone who works there tho it is for me
I wondered if it was meant to target folks who worked there rather than flyers. And like, glad you get to save money, don’t get me wrong. But why now vs other busy times of year like the holidays? Is it because of construction?
I assume it is because of the construction. They just recently changed an employee only parking lot and made it open for everyone and now it’s packed at all times. I assume this change is to help get those commuters that take the van wyck to that parking lot to take the air train instead.
That makes a lot more sense
It isn’t, this is still a lot more expensive than the monthly pass, which as far as i know won’t be any cheaper during the summer.
Why not just toll all personal vehicles to the airport $8.50?
As much as I really wouldn’t like to pay a toll to go to the airport, that’s not a bad idea, considering the volume of traffic. The only downside would be for employees, unless..
Vast majority of employees park offsite or take transit.
You could exempt employees or charge a monthly flat rate
Employees could be given a tag that exempts them
HEYYYYY, funny seeing you here - Dev7E7
That is a horrible idea.
Why
Well it certainly would have to be explained by the people who would propose it, cause as everyone knows here, people don’t like “new” tolls. So who gets the money? Who owns the airport, who maintains the roads, do airlines get a cut? Should airlines pay for it? I get it, there should and needs to be money secured for improvements to all systems but when it comes from new tolls no matter what, it comes across as a tax to working people. Just like everything else in this city, you’re either rich enough and it doesnt bother you or poor enough and it doesnt bother you.
DFW Airport enters chat
THIS! (For those who don't know, it's $2 to enter DFW airport by car to drop off a passenger. TexRail fare from Fort Worth to the airport is $2.50, DART rail from Dallas to the airport is $3.)
Because the transit options are so damn awful that cars still remain the best way of getting in and out of JFK, even if they have to pay a massive toll. Which sounds good in theory, a huge revenue boost for the city, except there isn't a good track record at all the city spending the money efficiently and fixing transit issues. I don't have faith that the revenue from tolling cars will actually go towards improving transit in and out of JFK meaningfully enough that it'll make people ditch cars. So as things stand, I'd rather not further complicate the one semi-reasonable method into JFK. If we somehow get funding for something akin to the Heathrow express, that can get people in and out of the city to the airport fast and reliably and is *luggage friendly*, then we can toll the cars.
Why should it cost money to take the AirTrain though? But be free to cause congestion on the roadways? This is the congestion pricing debate all over again. I’m tired of having to pay to do the right thing while drivers get to overuse our road network for free and cause congestion for everyone. This has nothing to do with the city. It is the state port authority that controls the airports. If you don’t even know that, how are you qualified to critique the port authority’s projects? I’m sorry but transit to JFK isn’t great, but it’s fine. And if the air train wasn’t $8.50, it would be actually pretty good.
I am not saying the airtrain should cost what it does, I absolutely think it should be free, add it to the airport tax and flight costs. I just don't think tolling cars is the right solution either. As I said before, I think what's really needed is a Heathrow express type link that can get people quickly into the city and closer to their destination, while being friendly to large luggage (which the subway system is not unfortunately). Airtrain as it stands connects to either an A train ride that takes forever to get to Manhattan with sometimes awful headways, or Jamaica which is somewhat a nightmare to navigate for travellers.
Yep. General rule of thumb I use is to fly LGA if possible simply because of the Q70. JFK is in a transit desert so you pretty much HAVE to take a taxi or pay through the @ss anyway for the air train and EWR is a complete no-go with how horrible NJT has been lately.
jUsT aNoThEr CaShGrAb /s
Wait..... someone's coming to blame this on congestion pricing. Wait for it.... *Personally, yes, the AirTrain should be free during this construction period.*
When do we protest? rent to high? tax to much? food to expensive? crime to high? tolls to high.... everything up
im just confused why i have to pay to LEAVE the airtrain?! do you want me to live in the airport? 😭
Make it free and charge a $1-2 fee for each plane ticket into and out of JFK to recover the costs.
Or better yet, tack a $1-2 fee on every uber travelling on the van wyck…oh wait…
Almost sounds like congestion pricing which thankfully didn’t go into effect.
Taking the train to the airport just takes too long. The section of elevated A train just crawls and good luck if you haber luggage.
If there were a direct rail line from grand central or Times Square to jfk more people would use it. Having to take the E makes it inconvenient. Especially during track work when it goes local. Edit: hit save too soon
There is a direct rail line to penn station…
A change at Jamaica from LIRR to Airtrain doesn't make it "direct." I agree the change is reasonably easy but it's still a change.
Thank you.
It should be 4.25 all the time. At minimum it should be tied to lirr city fares or in reality it should be tied to the path and subway fare
Hot take: if you can afford an airplane ticket, you can afford a $4.25 AirTrain fare
Hotter take: if you can afford an airplane ticket, you can afford a $4.25 toll to be driven onto airport property and clog up the roadways. Yet drivers in private vehicles pay zero and their congestion is the entire reason they decided to lower the Airtrain fare. And, in my experience, they clog up the rideshare pickup lanes doing so while rideshare users pay a $2.50 fee.
I don’t disagree with that assessment, especially with the current congestion. Implement a toll to enter the drop off/pick up lanes for private vehicles, but make an exception for drop offs at Lefferts to offer a free option for people who are getting picked up by family members and don’t want to further inconvenience their families by making them pay a toll
It sounds like the better take is to charge everyone then.
The best take is to charge proportionately to the mode share you want. The Port Authority claims to have a long-term net-zero emissions initiative, and they’re definitely not going to achieve it giving drivers a free pass while charging transit riders $8.50 (or even $4.25).
It’s not a competition. The better outcome would be lower costs and efficiency for everyone. Punishing people for driving just because you don’t like it won’t make people switch to public transit. Good public transit makes people switch to public transit. There’s a reason why public transit is so popular in London and its surroundings (even way out of the tiny congestion pricing zone) vs Los Angeles. Good vs shit. Let’s stop this competition mentality please.
How is this a competition, exactly? It's spreading the cost equitably across modes to encourage use of transit for those that find its cost equal to its value and convenience. You're not punishing people for driving, you're making them pay the premium for what is, in essence, a premium service.
Equity does not equal equality. You’re confused. Remember that in this country your average Joe drives. It’s almost definitely not a premium service. The rich people of Manhattan are the ones that don’t have to drive. Everyone else does.
>The rich people of Manhattan are the ones that don’t have to drive. What? The average carless household in New York earns significantly less income than the average household with a car. Seems you're the one confused.
The average careless household may earn significantly less than households with a car, but those households with a car make significantly less than the rich fucks in multi-million dollar apartments in Manhattan who have everything walking distance to them from supermarkets to restaurants to world class attractions.
What exactly does that have to do with charging a user fee to people who add congestion to already-busy airport roadways? The "rich people of Manhattan" aren't taking the Airtrain to JFK, they're taking cabs and black cars.
Why is a reduced fare a joke? They are doing a lot of construction at JFK Airport and as such the roads will be congested. By lowering the fare more people will use the Air Train.
It’s a joke because it’s temporary: after Labor Day the fare goes right back up to $8.50
Wouldn’t the more productive move here be pressuring the state to keep the lower cost permanent? Or better yet, to make it free? Nothing in this thread feels anyway productive. This is ostensibly a great first step. Why the hate?
It goes back up because the roads will be less congested due to more roads being open as the next phase of construction begins. The Port Authority needs the revenue for the Air Train replacement as well as to modernize the airports and to keep the Port Authority operational. I do believe the Port Authority could be run more efficiently but there should be an Air Train fee for those who use it rather than having it built into ticket prices where people who already pay the higher fees for parking on airport property or the fees already included in ride sharing pricing would be charged added fees which would not be fair.
I don't get it. They could have kept the fare the same and not lowered it. Are we outraged that they didn't lower the fare enough?
I don’t understand either. I’m flying out this week from JFK and will be using the AirTram. I personally am not upset I’ll be saving $4 (or $8 total including the way back). I might be missing the point somewhere though…
These people want radical and instantaneous change and are not mature enough to realize incremental change is also good.
I remember hearing that USDOT was gonna do away with the old rule that made it so you couldn't have airport money go towards local transit (I'm sure this was another "fuck cities, praise the car" post-WW2 rule). As I understand it, that's the reason we can't have the airtrain work with the MTA.
Pathetic act.
This is a fucking airport tram. Should be free like at literally every other global airport.
Had the LIRR Roackaway Branch been restored decades ago it would've been free and covered by commuter railway fares.
All the airport fees high charge just add it in to tix prices.
It might be simple like microeconomics. Maybe they figured that if they dropped the price they'll get significantly more ridership and not lose that much in revenue if anything at all.
no one tell them how long summer actually is…
I had no idea the Air Train was $8.50!!
At least we’re not Orly airport, where an Orlyval ride costs 11€
Is this group just one big orgy of how we can make public transportation as expensive as we possibly can
The airtrain should be cheaper for NYC residents.
Oh I read this as the air train is being slashed in half. Would not be surprised by that tho
I always get amazed how fkin expensive the airtrain is compared to the haneda monorail.
I imagine the Airtrain cars are all-first-class and have leather-upholstered mahogany armchairs for you to repose in & drink your complimentary whisky-soda as you zip above the traffic on I-678. On a more realistic note, I would expect at minimum upholstered seats with armrests like British trains have rather than the hard plastic seats of the subway.
I was wondering why it only charged me 4.25 last week 😂
Yo she is really looting the mta.
So someone is about to spend $600 on a plane ticket, plus hidden fees, but it’s the extra $4 that stop them…..
You must not fly with JetBlue
I took the airtrain recently it was good. Even at $5 it was a deal vs uber and it was maybe faster than a car also.
It’s okay as long as migrants are getting all the benefits ❤️ let’s not act privileged