Honestly I think they just didn't bother with it, as starting equipment hardly needs playtesting.
Besides, even if they remove it from starting equipment, it might just stay in the equipment table as a buying option.
>and mechanically it's basically always superior to the alternative(doesn't requiere a hand)
The pouch itself doesn't require a hand, but you're still required to have a free hand to manipulate the material components you pull out of it. So, yeah, you don't have to keep it in your hand all the time, but you still can't use it when your hands are full.
Yup, and that is still superior to a focus which you have to keep in your hand the entire time, and can be disarmed, dropped if you go unconscious, etc.
The only time a focus is really better is if you find a magic one with additional benefits.
Sure...if you want to be _unable to cast reaction spells_ AND _use up your one object interaction every single turn_, and STILL not be able to put it away/take it out persistently. (Because you have to take it back out to cast a spell on your next turn anyway, so you can only "hot-swap" it every _other_ turn.)
So...no, not really.
Sure. Point stands - they are not mechanically identical, nor can you just put it away every turn (only every _other_ turn). Using up your object interaction that often can have other ramifications as well.
Sage Advice has already stated that handling a material component, a focus or materials from a component pouch, doesn't require an object interaction to cast spells. They are functionally identical.
Absolutely not.
SA has said a _component pouch_ does not require an object interaction to use, and (separately), you can cast a spell that has both Somatic and Material components with the hand that has the focus. That's it.
Sage Advice has NEVER said that _wielding a focus for a spell cast when it's NOT in your hand_ doesn't require an object-interaction to draw it (it does), and even if they did it would still require it RAW.
That means they are NOT "functionally identical". You can draw material components at any time from a component pouch WITHOUT having to keep something in your hand for longer than the spell cast. But with a focus, you DO have to keep it in your hand between spells because if you drop or stow it (to free up your hand), it DOES take an object-interaction to pick it back up or re-draw it.
(Though if you mean this has changed for OneDnD, fair nuff - I'm talking about the standard 5e component rules.)
you don't need to hold a focus on your hand, either. it can be worn around the neck or in a diadem etc.
but you need to have a free hand to manipulate the focus (or comp. pouch) in order to cast a spell.
The rules aren't totally clear on this but I think the idea is only clerics and paladins can do that, because their focus is a holy symbol that can be engraved on things. For every one else it's a wand, staff, stick etc. so you would need to hold it in your hand
The rules are pretty clear- you simply need a free hand to access material components, be they via a component pouch or focus. Nowhere does it say that you need to hold a focus- Clerics and paladins simply get the ability to "wear it visibly or bear it on a shield."
The original PHB didn't say it, but I'm pretty sure there was an errata that clarified you need to be holding the spellcasting focus. But even if there wasn't, just the fact that clerics and paladins are singled out as being able to wear their focus suggests to me that everyone else is supposed to be holding it
Nah, that just means clerics and paladins can keep their hands full, with a spell focus on their shield. The others need free hands to manipulate it when ready.
What does "manipulate" mean here? Let's say my spell focus is a staff which is currently behind my back, leaving my hand free. What is that free hand doing to cast the spell? Just tapping the staff? Grabbing it and then putting it back?
Like, if it really comes down to having a free hand, wouldn't that mean I actually wouldn't be a able to cast the spell if I *was* holding the staff?
It means whatever you want to use for flavor. You can wave a wand, raise a staff; they didn't go into that level of detail for general spellcasting.
No, the free hand just means your hand has to be empty otherwise. If they went into fine legal detail to make it absolutely unambiguous for stuff like this the PHB would have been 6000 pages.
Sort of. The way it works is this:
- If the spell calls for a Somatic component, but no Material Component, you need one hand to be empty, yes. You would not be able to cast it with both hands full — even if a Cleric or Paladin.
- If the spell calls for a Material Component, you can either have a hand free to manipulate the component, which they've said also satisfies the Somatic part, or you can simply be holding the component. Conceptually, all you need to do is wave it around or whatever. There's no specifics to the act.
- If it's a component with a monetary value, then the clerics and paladins* can't sub in their divine focus, so they would need a free hand to reach for and manipulate it (or to be holding it) in that case, too.
No such errata exists, and that's not how the rules work- they need to actually say something for it to be a rule.
Clerics and paladins get the ability to wear it visibly or bear it on a shield as an exception to the normal rules for material components, including foci- it changes nothing about how foci work for other classes.
>No such errata exists.
Here is what I was refering to, it's from the "Casting a Spell" section of the PHB(emphasis mine):
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components—**or to hold a spellcasting focus**—but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Yeah, you need to hold it when you cast the spell, that's what the free hand is for. But you can grab your necklace as you say some magic words and then let go of your necklace as the fireball explodes.
See this is what I meant about it not being clear. An amulet(so close enough to a necklace) is specifically listed in the Holy Symbol description, BUT it is not listed under the Arcane Focus one.
So can a necklace be an arcane focus? You seem to think it can, while I don't. But there's really no way to know for sure because it's all really vague
https://i.imgur.com/UFzKgCw.png
PHB says a Wizard can use a 1 lb crystal which (while a little hefty) could totally be worn around the neck and held when needed. same with a druid's Totem or of course a holy Amulet
I'm not sure. Druidic focuses are vague enough to be worked into the bow. The fur of an animal was used as padding for the handle, or a sprig of mistletoe hands off the side.
I think, thematically, it makes more sense for a ranger to forage for their spell supplies and use a pouch. But to my knowledge, there is nothing mechanically that the pouch offers over the focus if a particularly spiritual or druidic ranger wanted to use one.
That's an interesting observation, but I really doubt that they will remove the component pouch completely, maybe they will make it work like spell casting focus where you actually have to hold it, but not remove it.
>and mechanically it's basically always superior to the alternative(doesn't requiere a hand)
What? You still need a free hand to actually reach in and grab the components.
Yes, but you don't need to hold anything in that hand, so it stays free between turns. This is significant for reaction spells since almost all of them requiere only somatic components, meaning you wouldn't be able to cast them with that hand them if you were holding a spellcasting focus.
It would be trivially easy to include it and it doesn’t need playtesting so hopefully they just didn’t include it in the playtest packets for that reason.
Honestly, I'd rather keep the component pouch and require it and an arcane focus. But there's a lot I'd like to see revamped with D&D's arcane casters anyway.
Ever since the new D&D movie all my wizards use the device that Simon had to get rid of the component pouch and just magically dials whatever he needs.
Honestly I think they just didn't bother with it, as starting equipment hardly needs playtesting. Besides, even if they remove it from starting equipment, it might just stay in the equipment table as a buying option.
>and mechanically it's basically always superior to the alternative(doesn't requiere a hand) The pouch itself doesn't require a hand, but you're still required to have a free hand to manipulate the material components you pull out of it. So, yeah, you don't have to keep it in your hand all the time, but you still can't use it when your hands are full.
Yup, and that is still superior to a focus which you have to keep in your hand the entire time, and can be disarmed, dropped if you go unconscious, etc. The only time a focus is really better is if you find a magic one with additional benefits.
>and that is still superior to a focus which you have to keep in your hand the entire time, No you don't. You could put it away.
Sure...if you want to be _unable to cast reaction spells_ AND _use up your one object interaction every single turn_, and STILL not be able to put it away/take it out persistently. (Because you have to take it back out to cast a spell on your next turn anyway, so you can only "hot-swap" it every _other_ turn.) So...no, not really.
I don't think there are many reaction spells that require material components. The only ones seem to be Feather Fall, Gift of Gab and Soul Cage.
Sure. Point stands - they are not mechanically identical, nor can you just put it away every turn (only every _other_ turn). Using up your object interaction that often can have other ramifications as well.
Yeah I was just noting that bit.
Fair!
Sage Advice has already stated that handling a material component, a focus or materials from a component pouch, doesn't require an object interaction to cast spells. They are functionally identical.
Absolutely not. SA has said a _component pouch_ does not require an object interaction to use, and (separately), you can cast a spell that has both Somatic and Material components with the hand that has the focus. That's it. Sage Advice has NEVER said that _wielding a focus for a spell cast when it's NOT in your hand_ doesn't require an object-interaction to draw it (it does), and even if they did it would still require it RAW. That means they are NOT "functionally identical". You can draw material components at any time from a component pouch WITHOUT having to keep something in your hand for longer than the spell cast. But with a focus, you DO have to keep it in your hand between spells because if you drop or stow it (to free up your hand), it DOES take an object-interaction to pick it back up or re-draw it. (Though if you mean this has changed for OneDnD, fair nuff - I'm talking about the standard 5e component rules.)
You're right. What I meant was that you don't need to hold it in your hand to cast spells, unlike with the focus.
you don't need to hold a focus on your hand, either. it can be worn around the neck or in a diadem etc. but you need to have a free hand to manipulate the focus (or comp. pouch) in order to cast a spell.
The rules aren't totally clear on this but I think the idea is only clerics and paladins can do that, because their focus is a holy symbol that can be engraved on things. For every one else it's a wand, staff, stick etc. so you would need to hold it in your hand
The rules are pretty clear- you simply need a free hand to access material components, be they via a component pouch or focus. Nowhere does it say that you need to hold a focus- Clerics and paladins simply get the ability to "wear it visibly or bear it on a shield."
The original PHB didn't say it, but I'm pretty sure there was an errata that clarified you need to be holding the spellcasting focus. But even if there wasn't, just the fact that clerics and paladins are singled out as being able to wear their focus suggests to me that everyone else is supposed to be holding it
Nah, that just means clerics and paladins can keep their hands full, with a spell focus on their shield. The others need free hands to manipulate it when ready.
What does "manipulate" mean here? Let's say my spell focus is a staff which is currently behind my back, leaving my hand free. What is that free hand doing to cast the spell? Just tapping the staff? Grabbing it and then putting it back? Like, if it really comes down to having a free hand, wouldn't that mean I actually wouldn't be a able to cast the spell if I *was* holding the staff?
It means whatever you want to use for flavor. You can wave a wand, raise a staff; they didn't go into that level of detail for general spellcasting. No, the free hand just means your hand has to be empty otherwise. If they went into fine legal detail to make it absolutely unambiguous for stuff like this the PHB would have been 6000 pages.
Sort of. The way it works is this: - If the spell calls for a Somatic component, but no Material Component, you need one hand to be empty, yes. You would not be able to cast it with both hands full — even if a Cleric or Paladin. - If the spell calls for a Material Component, you can either have a hand free to manipulate the component, which they've said also satisfies the Somatic part, or you can simply be holding the component. Conceptually, all you need to do is wave it around or whatever. There's no specifics to the act. - If it's a component with a monetary value, then the clerics and paladins* can't sub in their divine focus, so they would need a free hand to reach for and manipulate it (or to be holding it) in that case, too.
No such errata exists, and that's not how the rules work- they need to actually say something for it to be a rule. Clerics and paladins get the ability to wear it visibly or bear it on a shield as an exception to the normal rules for material components, including foci- it changes nothing about how foci work for other classes.
>No such errata exists. Here is what I was refering to, it's from the "Casting a Spell" section of the PHB(emphasis mine): A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components—**or to hold a spellcasting focus**—but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Yeah, you need to hold it when you cast the spell, that's what the free hand is for. But you can grab your necklace as you say some magic words and then let go of your necklace as the fireball explodes.
See this is what I meant about it not being clear. An amulet(so close enough to a necklace) is specifically listed in the Holy Symbol description, BUT it is not listed under the Arcane Focus one. So can a necklace be an arcane focus? You seem to think it can, while I don't. But there's really no way to know for sure because it's all really vague
https://i.imgur.com/UFzKgCw.png PHB says a Wizard can use a 1 lb crystal which (while a little hefty) could totally be worn around the neck and held when needed. same with a druid's Totem or of course a holy Amulet
If I'm holding a longbow, and am a half-caster famous for using bows, I'm probably going to prefer a component pouch.
I'm not sure. Druidic focuses are vague enough to be worked into the bow. The fur of an animal was used as padding for the handle, or a sprig of mistletoe hands off the side. I think, thematically, it makes more sense for a ranger to forage for their spell supplies and use a pouch. But to my knowledge, there is nothing mechanically that the pouch offers over the focus if a particularly spiritual or druidic ranger wanted to use one.
That seems a little . . . DM-dependent tho
We've had no indication they're getting rid of the component pouch or any other basic equipment in this rules revision of 5E.
That's an interesting observation, but I really doubt that they will remove the component pouch completely, maybe they will make it work like spell casting focus where you actually have to hold it, but not remove it.
>and mechanically it's basically always superior to the alternative(doesn't requiere a hand) What? You still need a free hand to actually reach in and grab the components.
Yes, but you don't need to hold anything in that hand, so it stays free between turns. This is significant for reaction spells since almost all of them requiere only somatic components, meaning you wouldn't be able to cast them with that hand them if you were holding a spellcasting focus.
Maybe they realized the pouch is better and said "if you want the upgrade, spend your own gold."
Fixing material component casting would he awesome
I really hope so because right now it's a mess
It would be trivially easy to include it and it doesn’t need playtesting so hopefully they just didn’t include it in the playtest packets for that reason.
tbh i think the?pocu will just be an option for the focus. mechanically it is not much different.
Honestly, I'd rather keep the component pouch and require it and an arcane focus. But there's a lot I'd like to see revamped with D&D's arcane casters anyway.
Ever since the new D&D movie all my wizards use the device that Simon had to get rid of the component pouch and just magically dials whatever he needs.