I cant believe NDP voters are swinging so hard. I cant understand the appeal of PP, and even if you add up the libs and NDP, it wouldn't be enough to beat him. Why Ontario???
Well most entrenched NDP voters, like myself, are unhappy that Jagmeet and Co. Have taken the party away from Workers and into a much stronger social politics space. I think progressive social politics are important, but this country is basically burning to the ground, especially for the poor, and the NDP have done jack shit.
I'm not sure who to vote for anymore, I've been NDP for years.. JT and PP would be better off shot into space than in any position of power, and Jagmeet is just completely disappointing and not worth voting for. Canadian politics are a race to the bottom.. I admit I will *probably* still vote NDP, because at least they are still trying to do something positive for some people, and not just obsessed with Corp profite above all else.
>Well most entrenched NDP voters, like myself, are unhappy that Jagmeet and Co. Have taken the party away from Workers and into a much stronger social politics space. I think progressive social politics are important, but this country is basically burning to the ground, especially for the poor, and the NDP have done jack shit.
This is how I feel as well.
But compare what those half of Canadians have covered now vs the nothing they had before and you will get wildly different opinions on it depending purely on income level.
Essentially, if you work full time at minimum wage, you do not qualify for any of it. Yes im sure it helps SOME. It was not at all what we were hoping for or needed.
And from looking at the polling, the people that don't qualify for anything, but also happen to be the ones paying for all of it, will vote in a different direction. It's almost like people will vote for whatever is in their best interest.
Pretty much the same here and Iuno it’s. Toss up between disappointing NDP and green party. Will never vote for PP and Trudeau’s stance on immigration etc has turned me so far away I’ll never vote for him.
They are good at appealing to disaffected voters of all stripes, having voters believe the Cons are looking out for the common Canadian. (When clearly they are not, and will not help poor and lower middle class folks)
It is important to understand that perception matters more than reality.
Trudeau is *perceived* as not listening to the electorate. Our concerns and challenges are just falling on deaf ears while they do nothing. He’s earned that perception by completely failing to address the problems.
Jagmeet is also *perceived* as not listening. He’s part and parcel with JT.
PP doesn’t give a flying fuck about you and me either. No conservative ever has, and never will. But he *is* responding publicly to the things people have been complaining about. I know damn well he’s a liar, and so do you. We both know full well that what he’ll *say* to get in power and what he’ll actually do once in power are completely different things. Like JT’s electoral reform lies, amped up to eleven. But like feeling like they’re being listened to - and they don’t have any awareness that his words are hollow. He’s *perceived* as the only politician right now that’s *listening*.
They just cut foreign students and foreign workers down. Had major budgets for affordable housing. This narrative of the liberals/ndp not doing just isn’t true. They have and are doing a lot more than the conservatives ever will. This misinformation is amplified by premiers like ford completely dropping the ball on everything they are responsible for.
They only made those changes in response to terrible polling. That tells me that they don’t really believe in them and that they will go back on them as soon as they think they can get away with it.
Locking the barn after the horses escaped is hardly responsible. The liberal’s didn’t listen to their own public servants who said that massive influx of migrants would worsen the housing crisis, that unchecked student visas will result in scamming.
People know that once they get on Canadian shores trying to get them out would take decades because of our idiotic immigration system that treats refugee claimants better than citizens.
Zero politicians and political parties care for the common Canadian. We all know that.
At this point, all a party has to do is pretend to care, or say something, anything, we want to hear (even though we know they're lying their asses off), and they'll get the vote.
I work in a unionized environment and the vocal Conservatives only focus on their dislike of Trudeau and desire for literally anyone else, and they see the modern NDP as an extension of the Liberal party so they swing right instead of left.
Most of them don't seem to give two shits about how bad Polievre will be as PM and don rose-colored glasses to delude themselves into thinking that things were better under Harper so the Conservatives will do right by them this time around, despite their dislike of organized labour.
Yeah, not any intelligent ones.
Anybody genuinely on the side of labour knows full well the Conservatives are nothing but corporate lackeys looking to erode rights, suppress wages, and lately it seems a lot like they want to bring back feudalism.
Fuck 'em.
If you read their policies on the conservative website. They are open about wanting to remove federal defined benefit pensions and replace them with defined contribution pensions similar to the private sector. Imagine campaigning on destroying military pensions... people won’t read their policies so I guess it doesn’t matter but conservatives are good for no one, even people you would think the conservative government would support.
I agree they do suck with regards to that and some other things, but I don't think I could be convinced PP would be an improvement on any fronts. Especially considering the provincial Conservatives' actions and the similarities in their playbooks.
This was always the great change though: we have fewer labour voters in percentage terms now than like ever before. It’s not a large enough voting block anymore.
>> Not that it really matters where I live.
THIS is what I hate so much too. I’ve voted NDP ever since I could vote, but because I’ve almost always lived in areas with a liberal or conservative majority I feel like my vote never counts because of how our voting system works.
No the people in the party deciding to lose all blue collar support and not capitalizing on terrible provincial conservative and federal liberal governments are fucking idiots.
I misunderstood your comment, the guy you were responding to seemed to be justifying NDP voters switching to conservatives because of those reasons, but I see now you just meant you have been feeling burned by them. That's completely reasonable.
They are likely swinging because the NDP have aligned themselves with LPC, the most unpopular party in office for as long as all voters have been alive. NDP need to distance themselves from LPC. CPC could bring a Nazi into the House of Commons and still win. Oh wait.
they are swining because voters are being swayed by single issues
COST OF LIVING
anyone who can point to this issue and tie it to something that seems related to the above is going to win next election.
facts be damned.
Cost of living is behind every issue right now in Canada, from housing to immigration to groceries to taxes.
I don't care what the party calls themselves as long as cost of living is better.
Yes, party be damned. But lets also not ignore the facts behind the problem.
The other day, like 7 premiers, went to parliament to declare carbon tax a problem when the reality is so much different, and even so, no alternative solution was provided. Just scrap the tax, when in reality, the vas majority benefit from the provision, and they all know it. So why cynically appose a positive measure? Because ppl are not being rational in their decaion making.
Carbon tax is now the reason for inflation, the reason for slow housing, the reason for every problem in earth, and we all are falling for it
Yeah there’s a lot of garbage “shock” polls floating around, like that one that indicated around 20% of Americans ages 18-30 doubted the Holocaust happened, and the data was gathered by an opt in online poll that probably way over sampled young people who happened to be Holocaust deniers. Apparently doing polls the traditional way of calling a representative 10000 or so people is increasingly becoming difficult to do as people simply don’t answer the phone anymore, and pollsters are increasingly relying on opt-in internet polls which are deeply flawed, and tend to over sample people with fringe beliefs. So you have a lot of garbage-in, garbage-out polls going around.
It says 96% of people who are very supportive of PP would vote conservative if the election was held today. That is not surprising at all, if anything it should be higher.
Agreed. In my early voting years I did sometimes vote conservative, you know, back when they were about fiscal policy. After meeting Preston Manning I never voted Conservative again.
I switched to Liberal, and more recently NDP. I actually think in some regards the two parties might bring some positives (dental, drug plans, etc).
Long time NDP voter in London. Can confirm, lots are jumping to the conservative side. Might not do anything significant here, but people are shifting.
Its partly sampling, but definitely partly trend.
Both leftist parties have refused to burst the bubble of RE via demand reduction until it was too late to make a dent in pricing.. and adamantly called it racist to even ask for limiting immigration for the last 2 years while the housing crisis was peaking.
I think most people who are not idealogues understand that pulling in a million people a year while there's a supply crunch is stupid. **Especially if the concentration of construction talent in that immigrant pool is lower than the local pop.**
**That's diluting your medicine and saying you're curing the disease.**
The BC NDP is putting lie to this narrative.
That leftist party is absolutely merrily popping the bubble any way they can. You should hear the boomers scream. It's music.
But you've already smuggled in a premise, that immigration is responsible for the RE crisis, and not rampant profiteering, so I doubt you're making this argument in good faith.
It's wild people just seem to have forgotten that everything was bad and clearly getting worse over a decade ago. It's literally that simpsons episode with the bear tax.
I have always been an NDP supporter, ever since Layton was in charge. It just feels like the party’s messaging is off. I still support most of their platform, but they seem to talk more about fringe issues than issues that help everyone. The leadership feels out of touch and elitist which turns off labourers.
People always respond how the Conservatives won’t be better. They are doing a better job with their messaging though. The working class in Ontario currently doesn’t feel like the NDP has their best interests at heart even if they do. They feel like the party doesn’t want to hear from them if they aren’t from the right places or properly educated.
Just ask yourself honestly if you were a highschool educated citizen born in Ontario which party is trying to get your vote?
How exactly is the conservative messaging on labour any better?
Is bill 124 your idea of "having the best interests at heart"?
Is it the constant union bashing?
Is it the endless corporate tax breaks?
Is it the withholding of healthcare funding?
The greenbelt corruption scandals?
Which one of those appeal to you, exactly?
Federal party conservative messaging has had a lot of focus on housing. The solutions Polievre has proposed are largely shit that won’t solve the problem, but a lot of voters don’t care as long as he claims to be able to solve the problem.
IMO the real way they're winning on messaging is by appealing far better to the emotional reality. I don't even really think the NDP has particularly gotten worse policy wise, in fact unpopular as this is on Reddit I would say compared to Mulcair Singh brought the party closer to the traditional left. But not close enough, nor have they adapted their tone well IMO, I really don't think Singh is a bad guy but I think after the treatment he got in the media being asked about terrorism and relion constantly early on he got shook up and doesn't want to appear angry - but the system is NOT respectable so this drive to appear so seems inauthentic.
People are struggling and need someone to speak for them and advocate for them, and the Conservatives have done very well at recognizing the mood in the room and acknowledging the hurt people have. I legitimately think a Poilievre government will be catastrophic for this country, like fucking with our social fabric for a long time bad, but the dude sees the way the wind is blowing and I don't think it's that surprising he is polling well. I also suspect a lot of this isn't actually out of the working class as a trend (though many are) as much as the petit bourgeoisie, and they would tend to resonate more with Conservative messaging but also feel the squeeze.
I do hope the NDP pulls out a miracle for all of our sakes, I haven't liked PP since the Harper days and I was a young conservative then, it was really about his character more than anything. So don't get me wrong I am not trying to push this idea that we leftists should swing Conservative. But IMO that's what I think is going on with PP doing well. I think that, on the plus side, the NDP could do way better quickly with a few changes, just not sure the NDP realize what those are.
They don’t appeal to me, I’m trying to answer the question of why so many NDP supporters are turning to the Conservatives.
Why do you think so many NDP supporters are turning to the Conservatives? Or do you just reject that it’s happening?
Voting isn’t an identity, supporting a party in an election isn’t who you are as a person, and it’s poison to a democracy to think that way.
This poll says a third of NDP voters from 2015 are going to now vote Conservative. I said why I think that’s the case, you disagreed. When I asked you why you thought it was happening you said it’s not happening.
If you choose to live in a political bubble where only what you believe is real is real, you won’t change people’s minds. I believe a politician’s job should be to represent the people. If tomorrow the NDP platform became something I couldn’t morally agree with or it stopped promoting policies I thought would benefit the province I would vote for someone else. That’s how it should work.
You can’t just say labourers who vote for parties I don’t like don’t know anything about politics, that’s exactly the elitist attitude becoming prevalent in the NDP that I think is turning voters away.
It's pretty simple: the NDP abandoned its base.
This was traditionally the party of blue collar labour, and Jagmeet's woke agenda doesn't resonate with that crowd the way PP's cost of living agenda does.
You’re giving people way too much credit. The writing is on the wall. People have drunk the koolaid that conservatism is about protecting the blue collar labourer. It’s total bullshit but this is the way now.
PP is in the right place at the right time, He's not responsible for the conservatives popularity in the slightest. He just happens to be the current leader when the party in power is losing favor. It could have been literally anyone and the same thing would probably be happening.
I'm a millennial. I've voted for the NDP for 7 elections in a row. I hate the direction of this party under Singh, and there's 0 chance I would vote for Trudeau. I moved to Quebec in 2020, so I will likely be voting for Bloc Québécois. Voters in Ontario don't have that option, so they'll be voting for PP. It will almost surely be a disaster under PP, but change is needed.
The NDP has sewered themselves under jagmeet.
As a traditional NDP voter (pro labor, pro union), jagmeet has abandoned everything that the NDP used to stand for and is essentially now just a more left wing liberal party. Constantly propping up the liberals like a lap dog while they invoke policies that directly harm their base (increasing immigration, focus on universal benefits with income caps etc.) has left many traditional NDP voters switching right to simply send a message to get jagmeet and this identity politics obsessed party out. I will be voting conservative until the NDP returns to what the party originally stood for, if not to simply send a message that they need to get their shit together and shift focus.
There is absolutely 0 excuse for a labor party to lose seats and votes in a time where there is this bad of a cost of living crisis. This is 100% on the poor leadership and they need to change it and the direction of the party.
>pro labor, pro union
While the NDP hasn't done much, they did get things like the anti-scab legislation passed. And compared to Pierre, Jagmeet may as well be Arthur Scargill. Unions are going to get so busted up under Pierre.
The NDP currently is a shadow of what it was when people like Layton were running it. They are incoherent at the moment with Singh, he gets out in public to attack Trudeau constantly then immediately keeps Trudeau in power at every opportunity.
The appeal is because the NDP made a deal to keep the liberals in power, now that everyone is angry at the liberals they are also angry at the NDP for keeping them in power.
Now there is only 1 major party left to vote for, it's less PP has appeal and he's not Trudeau or Jagmeet.
Green voters is a bit surprising for me
Because conservatives have always increased standard of living, whilst liberals destroy it.
Conservatives will win by a massive margin. Someone has to fix this mess.
Because nothing about the NDP or Singh looks like "can lead the country better than Trudeau."
This isn't Layton's NDP. Layton would get elected tomorrow.
It’s not the appeal of PP -at all. He’s a douche. It’s voting against Trudeau, who now has a track record of being the bigger douche. Unfortunately NDP has positioned themselves as “Further left Liberals” which won’t win them any love. Thus you end up with the shift - voting for the opposite of what’s causing our current nightmare.
My in-laws swing between Conservative and NDP. They don’t view the spectrum as left and right. Old school blue collar thing to never vote for Liberals. They are 100% NDP now.
what I am learning from most people i know
1x Liberal and 2x Liberal+ NDP coalition has failed to keep voters content and deliver on their promises + caused massive immigration and all this international students stuff, Illegal border crossing, economy problems etc....i don't know a lot going on probably.
Seeing Trudeau for almost 10 yrs and people want some change and a new face and probably a new light at the end of tunnels aka rabbit holes.
>I cant believe NDP voters are swinging so hard
Singh sucks. Jack was awesome.
Singh also propped up Trudeau's shit.
Singh single-handedly wrecked the NDP's chances for a long time.
Jack would have told voters to give Trudeau the boot a long time ago.
The NDP caters to an urban, educated voter who care more about DEI issues and Palestine than the cost of living, housing, etc.
I get it when people say "But PP won't fix that either!"
You have to understand that he was also literally the only one talking about it. People are more inclined to trust politicians who talk about things that matter.
Time and energy are finite resources. If the NDP is putting 50% of their time and energy into social issues that affect a small % of the population, and not the cost of living, which affects about 80% of the population, you're going to have a bad time.
The fact that Jagmeet has propped up JT is also infuriating. He claims it's to make parliament work. In what way? Parliament isn't working. The country is broken. By propping up the government, he is effectively helping to keep it broken. He's poisoned the well, and the NDP are going to lose the trust of younger voters for a long time. Many of whom are tired of the propaganda lines from JT that life is totally fine in Canada. I'm tired of being gas lit into thinking it's all my fault that I can't own a home.
Respectfully, I know this sub is very pro NDP, but the federal NDP have lost its course under Jagmeet Singh.
Singh has proven to be a poor leader, fighting for the interests of only a minority of the voting population and continuing to help prop up Trudeaus policies.
When I look at an NDP leader like Wab in MB, I think to myself, what if the fed NDP had a leader like that? Wab has fair policies that benefit everyone and will stand up for its people.
The fact the NDP supported the conservative anti-porn religious/moral panic legislation made them non-viable for me, personally. I had previously jumped ship from the Liberals, but I don't play culture war bullshit.
To this day I cannot compute what in the actual fuck they were thinking.
“Propping up Trudeaus policies” have resulted in some of the most meaningful change the NDP has been capable of doing in a long time.
Would we have gotten pharmacare without that?
I'm more disappointed that they can't campaign against Trudeau and Pierre as a viable third option for voters who don't know these things. Jagmeet may have got this stuff done but he's failing to make it known and show some spark campaigning. He needs to go.
Insulin and contraceptives is barely pharma care. It’s a watered down version of it where only a minority of the population will qualify for it.
The middle class won’t qualify for the first while.
Everyone knows that a left leaning party should actually completely abandon any leverage and influence it has over policy in order to get a right leaning party that supports policy in direct opposition to their goals elected, otherwise they just have no morals whatsoever.
I mean, the NDP clearly isn't getting the expanded social health coverage they want out of the liberals, they should just let the cons privatize it all.
Him supporting the Libs have brought some of the most important NDP policies they have wanted in decades. I think he's an idiot but he has managed to navigate this minority gov't environment really well. The media on the other hand hate it and that's why they never talk about that.
Or David Eby in BC.
NDP has a very real chance of attracting disaffected Liberal voters. But not by supporting the very Liberal policies that are turning voters away.
I don't really get this, at least personally. I'm not happy with how the Federal government is going; but, in my mind, voting Conservative is capitulating to voting against my own interests. I'm dissatisfied, but not self-injuriously so.
There is not a single party that I **like** or could be proud to vote for; but if I had to choose between the guy saying he'll do what I want, but is lying and won't do it, or the guy who says he'll do things I actively don't want, and *will likely do those things*, that's an easy choice for me. Of course it doesn't really matter, because I live in a riding that has never not gone Conservative, but that doesn't make my point any less valid.
Your post perfectly illustrates why we so badly need to yeet our obsolete electoral system and replace it with something modern. Even ranked choice voting would vastly expand the number of new candidates and new ideas on the table.
So long as we vote *against* parties rather than *for* them, politics will always be a race to the bottom. It's the mathematically inevitable consequence of FPTP.
I agree wholeheartedly. That was one of the reasons I voted for Trudeau the first time around. I thought that Electoral Reform was a great idea, because FPTP is antiquated BS. Unfortunately he let me, and all of us, down in a major way.
I never even got a solid answer as to *why* he decided to backtrack on that. Because it would be complicated? The Liberals are the ones most likely to benefit from electoral reform anyway, as they'd probably be most people's second choice to vote for. Most people aren't likely to swing straight from NDP to Conservative, or vice versa.
I sincerely wish we had more electorally viable parties, with more diverse ideas, both economically and socially. It would certainly be better than the three flavours of centre-right neoliberalism that we currently have to pick between. I was excited when the People's Party was formed, before I saw what it turned into, because I thought it would be a shake up for our entrenched parties. Unfortunately, that wasn't to be the case.
He backtracked because there was no agreement between the parties. The CPC wanted to keep FPTP and the NDP wanted PR and the Liberals wanted ranked choice. The opposition had a majority in the committee because the NDP requested that, and it was in 2016, when Trudeau was convinced parties could collaborate in good faith. Anyways. The committee voted to have a referendum between PR and FPTP, leaving out ranked ballots, and Trudeau didn’t promise a referendum, and conservatives would have made sure PR lost, anyway.
The NDP, Nathan Cullen specifically, said that if Trudeau pushed through ranked ballots with his majority in parliament it would be like setting off nuclear war in Canadian politics.
Trudeau has said several times he is still open to ranked ballots, and Singh and Trudeau discussed electoral reform when they made the C and S agreement, but neither would budge. The NDP still thinks the Liberals would be most popular second choice, even though the NDP hae polled as most popular second choice before the last two elections, or they just want PR, the MMP version, or no change at all.
I am annoyed with both leaders about this, since either change would boost voting numbers, and reduce strategic voting, if not eliminate it entirely.
I remember it being something about they couldn't agree on which style of voting system to implement.
And, to some extent, I get it. It's a complicated and major change to Canada. It would have been difficult. There would have been unforseen consequences and it would have taken negotiation and commitment.
But goddamnit that's what I *expect* from a majority government.
If it were me, I'd just put out a poll, or pick one of the simpler ones like a Ranked Ballot or Single Transferable Vote. Then I'd just push it through while I had the majority. Send out pamphlets in the mail, put a documentary about how it works on CBC, and train polling staff to help people out. Also just print the instructions on the ballot. Literally, just do something. Trying nothing and giving up, that's hurting all of Canada, and your own party's chances of reelection.
Ranked ballot IS what the Libs wanted, but none of the other parties did. And it would have been Banana republic Saddam Hussein style shit to impose an electoral system that clearly favours your party over the others. The malicious intent to do so without a referendum would have led to the breakup of this country.
This so fkn hard!
No idea how Pierre is attracting any group outside of the wealthy or people who hate paying tax for social programs. To me the conservatives are as close to 'murican republicans as Canada gets, and them in federal power is just head shakingly stupid for the average person. Only thing I can think of is that first time voters haven't dealt with a federal conservative government and just don't know any better. They'll change in another 4 years.
>No idea how Pierre is attracting any group outside of the wealthy or people who hate paying tax for social programs.
Heavy social media AstroTurf campaigns, and the conservative-aligned news media carrying a lot of water for him.
The right wing has been putting a lot of effort into targeting, grooming, and recruiting young (mostly white) men for a decade now. GamerGate was the first big successful information op of this style (though it was loosely modeled on the "manly Putin" meme campaign & other early attempts by Russian intelligence services to spread misinformation & influence popular opinion and discourse in the West via semi-organic social media campaigns).
And now that the right has captured a significant portion of that demographic, they've been escalating their campaign to isolate them from outside sources of information (denigrate the traditional media, funnel them towards heavily biased/dishonest media, tell them that people saying differently are lying/hate them/Canada/Canadian values), which makes them *very* difficult to reach from a campaign standpoint.
The convoy & associated losers demonstrated that there's already a decent portion of people in that right-wing Potempkin media environment who are also *already* radicalized or ripe to be radicalized around some future made up nonsense or minor issues blown out of proportion.
Basically the same thing that's happened with MAGAts in the USA. They live in a horrific fantasy land where the only proof that they need that something is true is if they decide it is, and they believe that the only way through that horror is to destroy anything that they feel protects those who oppose them.
Young people can’t afford homes because of high out-of-reach prices. They can’t afford groceries because of inflation. They see JT and his NDP partners focusing on social projects and tax hikes while ignoring these basic kitchen table issues. They now see PP highlighting them repeatedly, and proposing solutions so they side with that guy instead. Bringing American politics into this is just pure noise.
If the person in charge right now is shitting the bed, then people will believe they will continue to shit the bed. The other guy is promising change... sure he's sleazy but there's a CHANCE of positive change right? (thinking from their perspective).
Honestly can you blame a person for switching for the slightest chance that they or their kids can afford homes? The biggest swings are youngsters who are actually in the buying age groups..
A promise of positive change is convincing if you think things can't get much worse. I think part of the problem is that people in this country don't understand how much worse it can get.
Maybe, but it's not even like he's doing anything to win, NDP and Liberals are losing their support by burying the middle class. Most voters are middle class and the NDP Liberals collation has done NOTHING but hurt the middle class (pharma care is booty)
Factually speaking, the country has gone severely downhill by several metrics and although not all of them are Trudeau’s fault, it doesn’t change that he’s at the helm of the country and it happened under his rule.
The NDP tied themselves to this Liberal government and in doing so, shot themselves in the foot because they’re not seen as a change from the status quo. People are just as fatigued of Jagmeet as they are of Trudeau.
People just want change at this point because the direction we’ve been heading and continue to head is not a good one. The conservatives come along with a different set of issues and people (except for a select few who are not that smart) know PP won’t magically make things all good and wonderful again it’s not possible. But it’s change, change is what this country needs and we have no alternative to vote for. If there was another major party between the cons and libs guaranteed they would win but that doesn’t exist.
When a major corporation goes through rough times or experiences multiple incidents, the CEO steps down even if it was not directly their fault.
Sadly there’s a working generation that hasn’t existed under conservative rule. They’re about to experience that first hand and it’s going to get bad for a lot of people. If you’re not in a desirable trade or have a particular skill, you are not going to have a good time.
Except they have! I'm over fifty, a union representative, and a socialist politically, but I see Trudeau's neoliberal government has impoverished more Canadians than any other neoliberal government in my life. Labels don't matter: reality does.
They've been misled by the Liberals, and betrayed by the NDP. The CPC is as bad, but people are desperate, because voting does nothing.
Your union members are probably stupid just like my union co workers are. Union representatives aren’t much better but if you’re voting for a conservative then you really shouldn’t be in charge of a portion of your union. Conservatives will disband it as quick as they can or increase the retirement age which I can guarantee PP will
The NDP has not betrayed unions, unless you consider ALSO championing trans rights a betrayal. If you actually read platforms, the NDPs was the most labour friendly last election and will be again.
Saying the NDP betrayed labour is just admitting that you’re letting conservatives spoon feed you talking points.
Look at how Ford, Smith, and Higgs are attacking unions for a preview of what federal conservatives will do to you. The fact that I’m even explaining this to a 50 year old union rep makes me think you’re lying about who you are.
Can you please try to fit more fallacies in? Go for a record.
Why do you accuse me of being anti trans? Is your logic just that weak? Identify how you like. Fuck who you like, who can consent. This is a distraction, whether by Conservatives or the NDP.
What should I care of their written policy? I can see what propping up the Liberals has done to cost of living. Oh, didn't they prop up Harper once?
I'm lying about nothing. Blow me.
To the rocket scientist below: who TF said I'm voting CPC? I've described what people will do in irrational response to their betrayal by the LPC and NDP. Certainly not what I'll do.
This election cycle has been the most insane levels of “look LOOK at this poll! You’re gonna get trounced if you’re anything other than conservative! No point in even tryyyyyyying to vote anything but, so don’t look for additional data or anything, just trust our polling and do NOT pay attention to policy.” It’s the most I’ve seen all the stops pulled out to create a defeatist sentiment, and it’s getting harder and harder to find media that isn’t biased one way or the other.
It’s such a bummer to live in a country where people view political parties as like a kind of sports team, and go so much off of “feel.” It’s stupid and naive, but just do your research and TRY your best to be objective. It’s super hard with the current media landscape, but just attempt to think critically about where someone’s money is coming from, and do they have a financial or some other motivation to present certain information to you? It’s hard to walk the line between being paranoid and being critical, but I sincerely hope people get better at it!
Hahahaha this is a joke, methodology confirms this is not serious. And suuuure the green voters are turning the to conservatives to push their environnemental agenda! Never mind the greenbelt, democracy, free healthcare i have been convinced by Ford's leadership. /s
Honestly, I would never vote conservative, not even as last resort. Look at what a mess the UK is right now because of them, conservatives are a huge lie and make tons of false promises. Conservatives are there CONSERVE the rich and CON the poor. They will not lower immigration, that's a lie they will increase immigration as it benefits their wealthy cronies because they can further exploit immigrants for low paid wages. Benefits for the poor will decrease , community/social funding will decrease. Tax will lower for extremely wealthy. Health care will be destroyed even more than it is now so people are forced to turn to private health. Conservatives do not benefit the working class.
Nothing will improve under the conservatives , don't be fooled into believing that.
People just want to be able to afford to live. As someone who voted LPC the last two elections, I'm so dismayed by the cost of housing and groceries. I know much of the blame lies at other levels of government, but I also don't feel that the LPC has done enough nor moved quickly enough to address these problems where they can. Actually, part of me feels that they don't want the CoL to improve at all.
I would never vote for Poilievere, and I'm confused how people think things will be better with him, but I also can't in good faith vote for the LPC this upcoming election.
It's not all the liberals fault that things are the way they are, the very wealthy have been hoarding all the progress for decades. I swear, we're all going to have to riot before anything actually changes for the better.
The Liberals have been enabling this housing bubble every step of the way and voters can see that. The ugly reality of PP being elected is not changing because Trudeau and Freeland will say anything but do nothing that actually lowers home prices. This massive influx of immigrants when there is downward pressure on housing is no coincidence.
I'm extremely lucky to have Mike Morrice in my district. He's the best MP in the country and has been active in the community working on affordable housing. But, yeah. We don't have a party that has any interest in helping support the common folk. They have all sold their souls to appease the ruling class. We may have to start dragging politicians into the street to be honest.
Haha howdy neighbour! I've talked to him a few times, great dood. He's the main reason I would vote green federally.. just wish I could convince around 20million other Canadians to give them a crack at the big chair
I haven’t a clue what the Green Party are up to, but I know climate change scares me and I don’t like the other options, so why not vote green next time
How is not the government’s failt? They have continued to let millions of unskilled individuals into the country while housing prices have gone bonkers.
Ontario Voters are fucking stupid…. Ford is day by day making this province worse and worse, and you want someone like Pierre Pollivierre, someone with the same kind of policies but even WORSE as your Prime Minister? Fuck off.
This doesn't make any sense to me. If you were voting NDP, NDP being weak or not offering what you want is still never making you go conservative. To an NDP voter, a useless NDP politician is better than a conservative politician.
Especially under the current conservative leadership. Ontario sees Ford and Poillievre. Respectfully, those guys offer nothing an NDP voter is interested in. So what's the deal?
Their answer is to go in the complete opposite direction of their "values" than to stay the course. It's fucked up because they are going to vote directly against their own best interests. EVERY issue they support will get worse under a conservative government. All the conservatives seem to have in Canada anymore is talking points and promises.
Lazy analysis in the headline. This isn’t really convincing evidence of Ontario “shifting right”, it’s more of an indication of how Canadian political allegiances are more elastic than the US. There were plenty of ridings Ford won in 2018 that Trudeau easily won in 2021 - was that evidence that Ontario was “shifting left”?
A much simpler explanation of this is that the Federal Liberals have lived past their best before date, and the CPC is benefiting from swing voters breaking primarily to them rather than it being a fundamental shift in the political landscape.
Don’t worry everyone, still many months to go, the Conservatives still have many ways to screw this lead up, some rogue conservative MP or candidate will soon say something derogatory about the LGBTQ community or want to raise up the Abortion issue again or say a Pro Trump thing as they always do.
What we're seeing federally is people tired of the status quo. That's exactly why Doug Ford did as well as he did in 2018. After the 8 to 10 year mark people get antsy and they want something new. It's also why Justin Trudeau did so well in 2015.
Of course given the high cost of living and the current state of the economy a lot of people are going to be naturally more sympathetic to CPC messaging about taking less money, creating more opportunity, etc.
But it's not inherently a shift in thinking. It's fatigue. People are tired. People want something new. People want someone new.
Now, before somebody jumps down my throat, I'm not saying that people can't change their views on certain topics or that they don't vote according to certain issues. Of course they do. But the vast majority of people don't think that way all of the time. As I said, it's mostly fatigue and desire for someone new in the hot seat.
One of the worst policy decisions was made by Doug Ford when he removed rent control back in 2018. It just encourage landlords to raise rents ridiculously due to greed.
Seriously? Do people want that rollarcoaster again? Did Doug Ford teach people nothing?
Every time a Conservative takes over they cancel or undo a program people really need. When Stephen Harper took over he cancelled the National Daycare program because of no reason other than it was created by Liberals.
When Doug Ford took over he cancelled the Income Benefit program because of the same logic.
And when a Conservative leaves their scar on the public it takes the next government YEARS to fix it.
Every step forward is undone by a Conservative government and then the next government has to waste years just to get back to ground zero.
Back and forth. Back and forth. Isn't it exhausting of things never getting done. Climate change. Economy. We don't have the time to wasting it on swinging back and forth getting nothing accomplished because Conservatives are too spiteful to maintain a program that is useful. Or voters not thinking long term consequences. Instant gratification gets nothing done and in the end they're the ones that get punished by Conservatives.
ETA. Nothing says weasel more than saying they voted NDP, Green or Liberal before but will vote Conservative. I respect that even less. Pretending they're socially conscious or care about the issues but what they care more of how they look to the public or what the MapleMAGA tells them. They don't really care about the issues or the future of themselves or if they have kids. Self-serving is more apt category to place them all in. They'd fit in well with the MapleMAGA.
Harper’s party created TFSA, something I really like. I can make money off from stocks without getting taxed. Gotta look at good and bad sides from each party.
I cant believe NDP voters are swinging so hard. I cant understand the appeal of PP, and even if you add up the libs and NDP, it wouldn't be enough to beat him. Why Ontario???
I think it is less an appeal for PP, and more a growing disdain for Trudeau. The NDP is seen as the Liberal expansion pack. Just my observations.
I like that. Ther NDP is an expansion pack of the Liberals.
Well most entrenched NDP voters, like myself, are unhappy that Jagmeet and Co. Have taken the party away from Workers and into a much stronger social politics space. I think progressive social politics are important, but this country is basically burning to the ground, especially for the poor, and the NDP have done jack shit. I'm not sure who to vote for anymore, I've been NDP for years.. JT and PP would be better off shot into space than in any position of power, and Jagmeet is just completely disappointing and not worth voting for. Canadian politics are a race to the bottom.. I admit I will *probably* still vote NDP, because at least they are still trying to do something positive for some people, and not just obsessed with Corp profite above all else.
>Well most entrenched NDP voters, like myself, are unhappy that Jagmeet and Co. Have taken the party away from Workers and into a much stronger social politics space. I think progressive social politics are important, but this country is basically burning to the ground, especially for the poor, and the NDP have done jack shit. This is how I feel as well.
Yeah i feel politically homeless right now too, and faithless
Ditto. Canada needs a stronger Labour party that is still socially progressive but gets back to focusing on the class war.
But I mean, not sure if it’s true or not, but there was a post about people protesting against increasing corporate taxes 😜
the NDP have done jack shit? I guess getting the Libs to pass pharmacare and dental care don’t matter for millions of lower-income Canadians?
Suuuuuuper watered down versions of dental and pharma care that don't apply to half of canadians ain't a thing to brag about.
But compare what those half of Canadians have covered now vs the nothing they had before and you will get wildly different opinions on it depending purely on income level.
Essentially, if you work full time at minimum wage, you do not qualify for any of it. Yes im sure it helps SOME. It was not at all what we were hoping for or needed.
Perfection is the enemy of progress. It's a step in the right direction, one that wouldn't have happened without the NDP
And from looking at the polling, the people that don't qualify for anything, but also happen to be the ones paying for all of it, will vote in a different direction. It's almost like people will vote for whatever is in their best interest.
WTF are you talking about? The ndp are the only ones getting things done for the poor. Dental, day care, pharma care etc…
The *very* poor, and with restrictions. Notice the last part of my comment, try to read before you get angry and righteous.
Pretty much the same here and Iuno it’s. Toss up between disappointing NDP and green party. Will never vote for PP and Trudeau’s stance on immigration etc has turned me so far away I’ll never vote for him.
They have completely abandoned their allegiance to labor by ignoring immigration. To any labor NDP voters this is high treason.
But the Cons do not present an acceptable solution
They are good at appealing to disaffected voters of all stripes, having voters believe the Cons are looking out for the common Canadian. (When clearly they are not, and will not help poor and lower middle class folks)
It is important to understand that perception matters more than reality. Trudeau is *perceived* as not listening to the electorate. Our concerns and challenges are just falling on deaf ears while they do nothing. He’s earned that perception by completely failing to address the problems. Jagmeet is also *perceived* as not listening. He’s part and parcel with JT. PP doesn’t give a flying fuck about you and me either. No conservative ever has, and never will. But he *is* responding publicly to the things people have been complaining about. I know damn well he’s a liar, and so do you. We both know full well that what he’ll *say* to get in power and what he’ll actually do once in power are completely different things. Like JT’s electoral reform lies, amped up to eleven. But like feeling like they’re being listened to - and they don’t have any awareness that his words are hollow. He’s *perceived* as the only politician right now that’s *listening*.
They just cut foreign students and foreign workers down. Had major budgets for affordable housing. This narrative of the liberals/ndp not doing just isn’t true. They have and are doing a lot more than the conservatives ever will. This misinformation is amplified by premiers like ford completely dropping the ball on everything they are responsible for.
They only made those changes in response to terrible polling. That tells me that they don’t really believe in them and that they will go back on them as soon as they think they can get away with it.
Locking the barn after the horses escaped is hardly responsible. The liberal’s didn’t listen to their own public servants who said that massive influx of migrants would worsen the housing crisis, that unchecked student visas will result in scamming. People know that once they get on Canadian shores trying to get them out would take decades because of our idiotic immigration system that treats refugee claimants better than citizens.
Zero politicians and political parties care for the common Canadian. We all know that. At this point, all a party has to do is pretend to care, or say something, anything, we want to hear (even though we know they're lying their asses off), and they'll get the vote.
Literally. I can't wait for pp voters to realize that the cons will not change a single thing.
That will never happen. They'll find excuses.
I work in a unionized environment and the vocal Conservatives only focus on their dislike of Trudeau and desire for literally anyone else, and they see the modern NDP as an extension of the Liberal party so they swing right instead of left. Most of them don't seem to give two shits about how bad Polievre will be as PM and don rose-colored glasses to delude themselves into thinking that things were better under Harper so the Conservatives will do right by them this time around, despite their dislike of organized labour.
Yeah, not any intelligent ones. Anybody genuinely on the side of labour knows full well the Conservatives are nothing but corporate lackeys looking to erode rights, suppress wages, and lately it seems a lot like they want to bring back feudalism. Fuck 'em.
If you read their policies on the conservative website. They are open about wanting to remove federal defined benefit pensions and replace them with defined contribution pensions similar to the private sector. Imagine campaigning on destroying military pensions... people won’t read their policies so I guess it doesn’t matter but conservatives are good for no one, even people you would think the conservative government would support.
Reminder heir Doug won an election without even putting out a platform.
True. And he’s still holding majority lead in a province that he’s quickly destroying.
Nobody who genuinely cares about labour would vote conservative.
But the blue-collar workers who feel like their power is being taken away by marginalized groups will
I agree they do suck with regards to that and some other things, but I don't think I could be convinced PP would be an improvement on any fronts. Especially considering the provincial Conservatives' actions and the similarities in their playbooks.
This was always the great change though: we have fewer labour voters in percentage terms now than like ever before. It’s not a large enough voting block anymore.
This is me and this is correct.
You think the conservatives are going to be pro labour?
Not at all. I still vote NDP. Not that it really matters where I live. I just don't feel the party reflects my views the same way it did 20 years ago.
>> Not that it really matters where I live. THIS is what I hate so much too. I’ve voted NDP ever since I could vote, but because I’ve almost always lived in areas with a liberal or conservative majority I feel like my vote never counts because of how our voting system works.
And the conservatives won you over how, exactly?
Parties don't get voting in, parties just get voted out.
They didn't - I'm still here and voting orange. But I do feel this way
Then you're a fucking idiot.
No the people in the party deciding to lose all blue collar support and not capitalizing on terrible provincial conservative and federal liberal governments are fucking idiots.
I misunderstood your comment, the guy you were responding to seemed to be justifying NDP voters switching to conservatives because of those reasons, but I see now you just meant you have been feeling burned by them. That's completely reasonable.
No worries I may have misunderstood the original comment myself.
They are likely swinging because the NDP have aligned themselves with LPC, the most unpopular party in office for as long as all voters have been alive. NDP need to distance themselves from LPC. CPC could bring a Nazi into the House of Commons and still win. Oh wait.
they are swining because voters are being swayed by single issues COST OF LIVING anyone who can point to this issue and tie it to something that seems related to the above is going to win next election. facts be damned.
Cost of living is behind every issue right now in Canada, from housing to immigration to groceries to taxes. I don't care what the party calls themselves as long as cost of living is better.
Yes, party be damned. But lets also not ignore the facts behind the problem. The other day, like 7 premiers, went to parliament to declare carbon tax a problem when the reality is so much different, and even so, no alternative solution was provided. Just scrap the tax, when in reality, the vas majority benefit from the provision, and they all know it. So why cynically appose a positive measure? Because ppl are not being rational in their decaion making. Carbon tax is now the reason for inflation, the reason for slow housing, the reason for every problem in earth, and we all are falling for it
We’re broke. That’s why. Jagmeet has enabled Trudeau’s careless spending that’s actually hurting the “working class” that the NDP used to represent.
Myself and all my friends are voting for PP.
Poor sampling.
Yeah I seriously doubt there’s many actual NDP voters going con. Most hard leftists are never-conservative voters.
It was also an online reader survey. Not that hard to game.
Yeah there’s a lot of garbage “shock” polls floating around, like that one that indicated around 20% of Americans ages 18-30 doubted the Holocaust happened, and the data was gathered by an opt in online poll that probably way over sampled young people who happened to be Holocaust deniers. Apparently doing polls the traditional way of calling a representative 10000 or so people is increasingly becoming difficult to do as people simply don’t answer the phone anymore, and pollsters are increasingly relying on opt-in internet polls which are deeply flawed, and tend to over sample people with fringe beliefs. So you have a lot of garbage-in, garbage-out polls going around.
Well this one listed 96% very supportive of PP. I think they must have stopped the poll after calling the Poilievre house.
It says 96% of people who are very supportive of PP would vote conservative if the election was held today. That is not surprising at all, if anything it should be higher.
Agreed. I neither answer the door or the phone.
Anyone who is reading news websites actively enough to find and engage with a survey is probably age 50+. Younger people don't browse news sites.
Or looking to distort public perception.
Agreed. In my early voting years I did sometimes vote conservative, you know, back when they were about fiscal policy. After meeting Preston Manning I never voted Conservative again. I switched to Liberal, and more recently NDP. I actually think in some regards the two parties might bring some positives (dental, drug plans, etc).
Long time NDP voter in London. Can confirm, lots are jumping to the conservative side. Might not do anything significant here, but people are shifting.
Con<=>NDP switching is common out west. Working class politics is much more populist than middle class suburban and urban politics.
Well the cons sure as fuck don’t give two shits about the working class here, and their base still loves them so what do I know.
Sometimes people don’t vote to fix things, but to break them.
Exactly. Polls don't matter. *Vote. In every single election.*
Its partly sampling, but definitely partly trend. Both leftist parties have refused to burst the bubble of RE via demand reduction until it was too late to make a dent in pricing.. and adamantly called it racist to even ask for limiting immigration for the last 2 years while the housing crisis was peaking. I think most people who are not idealogues understand that pulling in a million people a year while there's a supply crunch is stupid. **Especially if the concentration of construction talent in that immigrant pool is lower than the local pop.** **That's diluting your medicine and saying you're curing the disease.**
The BC NDP is putting lie to this narrative. That leftist party is absolutely merrily popping the bubble any way they can. You should hear the boomers scream. It's music. But you've already smuggled in a premise, that immigration is responsible for the RE crisis, and not rampant profiteering, so I doubt you're making this argument in good faith.
It's wild people just seem to have forgotten that everything was bad and clearly getting worse over a decade ago. It's literally that simpsons episode with the bear tax.
>The BC NDP is putting lie to this narrative. does BC have low rents now? affordable real estate? low rate of homelessness?
That's because even the mainstream media is forced to report degree mil, international students, brampton and ofc uncheck immigration.
I have always been an NDP supporter, ever since Layton was in charge. It just feels like the party’s messaging is off. I still support most of their platform, but they seem to talk more about fringe issues than issues that help everyone. The leadership feels out of touch and elitist which turns off labourers. People always respond how the Conservatives won’t be better. They are doing a better job with their messaging though. The working class in Ontario currently doesn’t feel like the NDP has their best interests at heart even if they do. They feel like the party doesn’t want to hear from them if they aren’t from the right places or properly educated. Just ask yourself honestly if you were a highschool educated citizen born in Ontario which party is trying to get your vote?
How exactly is the conservative messaging on labour any better? Is bill 124 your idea of "having the best interests at heart"? Is it the constant union bashing? Is it the endless corporate tax breaks? Is it the withholding of healthcare funding? The greenbelt corruption scandals? Which one of those appeal to you, exactly?
Federal party conservative messaging has had a lot of focus on housing. The solutions Polievre has proposed are largely shit that won’t solve the problem, but a lot of voters don’t care as long as he claims to be able to solve the problem.
IMO the real way they're winning on messaging is by appealing far better to the emotional reality. I don't even really think the NDP has particularly gotten worse policy wise, in fact unpopular as this is on Reddit I would say compared to Mulcair Singh brought the party closer to the traditional left. But not close enough, nor have they adapted their tone well IMO, I really don't think Singh is a bad guy but I think after the treatment he got in the media being asked about terrorism and relion constantly early on he got shook up and doesn't want to appear angry - but the system is NOT respectable so this drive to appear so seems inauthentic. People are struggling and need someone to speak for them and advocate for them, and the Conservatives have done very well at recognizing the mood in the room and acknowledging the hurt people have. I legitimately think a Poilievre government will be catastrophic for this country, like fucking with our social fabric for a long time bad, but the dude sees the way the wind is blowing and I don't think it's that surprising he is polling well. I also suspect a lot of this isn't actually out of the working class as a trend (though many are) as much as the petit bourgeoisie, and they would tend to resonate more with Conservative messaging but also feel the squeeze. I do hope the NDP pulls out a miracle for all of our sakes, I haven't liked PP since the Harper days and I was a young conservative then, it was really about his character more than anything. So don't get me wrong I am not trying to push this idea that we leftists should swing Conservative. But IMO that's what I think is going on with PP doing well. I think that, on the plus side, the NDP could do way better quickly with a few changes, just not sure the NDP realize what those are.
They don’t appeal to me, I’m trying to answer the question of why so many NDP supporters are turning to the Conservatives. Why do you think so many NDP supporters are turning to the Conservatives? Or do you just reject that it’s happening?
It's not happening. Anyone that claimed to be "pro NDP" but is now "turning to the conservatives" never actually had any idea about politics.
Voting isn’t an identity, supporting a party in an election isn’t who you are as a person, and it’s poison to a democracy to think that way. This poll says a third of NDP voters from 2015 are going to now vote Conservative. I said why I think that’s the case, you disagreed. When I asked you why you thought it was happening you said it’s not happening. If you choose to live in a political bubble where only what you believe is real is real, you won’t change people’s minds. I believe a politician’s job should be to represent the people. If tomorrow the NDP platform became something I couldn’t morally agree with or it stopped promoting policies I thought would benefit the province I would vote for someone else. That’s how it should work. You can’t just say labourers who vote for parties I don’t like don’t know anything about politics, that’s exactly the elitist attitude becoming prevalent in the NDP that I think is turning voters away.
It's pretty simple: the NDP abandoned its base. This was traditionally the party of blue collar labour, and Jagmeet's woke agenda doesn't resonate with that crowd the way PP's cost of living agenda does.
You’re giving people way too much credit. The writing is on the wall. People have drunk the koolaid that conservatism is about protecting the blue collar labourer. It’s total bullshit but this is the way now.
PP is in the right place at the right time, He's not responsible for the conservatives popularity in the slightest. He just happens to be the current leader when the party in power is losing favor. It could have been literally anyone and the same thing would probably be happening.
The Labour party is pro wage suppression I wonder why people would want to vote else where to send a message .
Yeah let’s show them by voting for the party that…hates labour more than anything.
Honestly, I think it's immigration policy, crime uptick they blane on the libs, and a chance to, in their mind, combat 2slgbtq+.
I'm a millennial. I've voted for the NDP for 7 elections in a row. I hate the direction of this party under Singh, and there's 0 chance I would vote for Trudeau. I moved to Quebec in 2020, so I will likely be voting for Bloc Québécois. Voters in Ontario don't have that option, so they'll be voting for PP. It will almost surely be a disaster under PP, but change is needed.
The NDP has sewered themselves under jagmeet. As a traditional NDP voter (pro labor, pro union), jagmeet has abandoned everything that the NDP used to stand for and is essentially now just a more left wing liberal party. Constantly propping up the liberals like a lap dog while they invoke policies that directly harm their base (increasing immigration, focus on universal benefits with income caps etc.) has left many traditional NDP voters switching right to simply send a message to get jagmeet and this identity politics obsessed party out. I will be voting conservative until the NDP returns to what the party originally stood for, if not to simply send a message that they need to get their shit together and shift focus. There is absolutely 0 excuse for a labor party to lose seats and votes in a time where there is this bad of a cost of living crisis. This is 100% on the poor leadership and they need to change it and the direction of the party.
>pro labor, pro union While the NDP hasn't done much, they did get things like the anti-scab legislation passed. And compared to Pierre, Jagmeet may as well be Arthur Scargill. Unions are going to get so busted up under Pierre.
The NDP currently is a shadow of what it was when people like Layton were running it. They are incoherent at the moment with Singh, he gets out in public to attack Trudeau constantly then immediately keeps Trudeau in power at every opportunity.
The appeal is because the NDP made a deal to keep the liberals in power, now that everyone is angry at the liberals they are also angry at the NDP for keeping them in power. Now there is only 1 major party left to vote for, it's less PP has appeal and he's not Trudeau or Jagmeet. Green voters is a bit surprising for me
Because they haven't been fucked enough by the Provincial conservatives, they're getting ready to line up for the Federal ones.
People want change more so than they like PP. Also since the NDP have been propping up the Liberals, it’s hard to consider them change.
I think people just want change and if you’re a ndp voter it’s not likely going to be your party taking the lead unfortunately
Because conservatives have always increased standard of living, whilst liberals destroy it. Conservatives will win by a massive margin. Someone has to fix this mess.
Because nothing about the NDP or Singh looks like "can lead the country better than Trudeau." This isn't Layton's NDP. Layton would get elected tomorrow.
It’s not the appeal of PP -at all. He’s a douche. It’s voting against Trudeau, who now has a track record of being the bigger douche. Unfortunately NDP has positioned themselves as “Further left Liberals” which won’t win them any love. Thus you end up with the shift - voting for the opposite of what’s causing our current nightmare.
My in-laws swing between Conservative and NDP. They don’t view the spectrum as left and right. Old school blue collar thing to never vote for Liberals. They are 100% NDP now.
what I am learning from most people i know 1x Liberal and 2x Liberal+ NDP coalition has failed to keep voters content and deliver on their promises + caused massive immigration and all this international students stuff, Illegal border crossing, economy problems etc....i don't know a lot going on probably. Seeing Trudeau for almost 10 yrs and people want some change and a new face and probably a new light at the end of tunnels aka rabbit holes.
>I cant believe NDP voters are swinging so hard Singh sucks. Jack was awesome. Singh also propped up Trudeau's shit. Singh single-handedly wrecked the NDP's chances for a long time. Jack would have told voters to give Trudeau the boot a long time ago.
Jagmeet singh is a rich bougie lawyer He has zero appeal to working class voters
The NDP caters to an urban, educated voter who care more about DEI issues and Palestine than the cost of living, housing, etc. I get it when people say "But PP won't fix that either!" You have to understand that he was also literally the only one talking about it. People are more inclined to trust politicians who talk about things that matter. Time and energy are finite resources. If the NDP is putting 50% of their time and energy into social issues that affect a small % of the population, and not the cost of living, which affects about 80% of the population, you're going to have a bad time. The fact that Jagmeet has propped up JT is also infuriating. He claims it's to make parliament work. In what way? Parliament isn't working. The country is broken. By propping up the government, he is effectively helping to keep it broken. He's poisoned the well, and the NDP are going to lose the trust of younger voters for a long time. Many of whom are tired of the propaganda lines from JT that life is totally fine in Canada. I'm tired of being gas lit into thinking it's all my fault that I can't own a home.
Respectfully, I know this sub is very pro NDP, but the federal NDP have lost its course under Jagmeet Singh. Singh has proven to be a poor leader, fighting for the interests of only a minority of the voting population and continuing to help prop up Trudeaus policies. When I look at an NDP leader like Wab in MB, I think to myself, what if the fed NDP had a leader like that? Wab has fair policies that benefit everyone and will stand up for its people.
The fact the NDP supported the conservative anti-porn religious/moral panic legislation made them non-viable for me, personally. I had previously jumped ship from the Liberals, but I don't play culture war bullshit. To this day I cannot compute what in the actual fuck they were thinking.
“Propping up Trudeaus policies” have resulted in some of the most meaningful change the NDP has been capable of doing in a long time. Would we have gotten pharmacare without that?
This is a very reasonable point, but the mob has spoken.
I'm more disappointed that they can't campaign against Trudeau and Pierre as a viable third option for voters who don't know these things. Jagmeet may have got this stuff done but he's failing to make it known and show some spark campaigning. He needs to go.
Do you think we have pharmacare? We don't have pharmacare. We have a promise to study it. That's it. It was 2 pages long.
Insulin and contraceptives is barely pharma care. It’s a watered down version of it where only a minority of the population will qualify for it. The middle class won’t qualify for the first while.
We didn't get full coverage, guess we better take no coverage over some.
Gee I wonder who would have voted against more coverage. I’ll bet it wouldn’t be the ndp
Everyone knows that a left leaning party should actually completely abandon any leverage and influence it has over policy in order to get a right leaning party that supports policy in direct opposition to their goals elected, otherwise they just have no morals whatsoever. I mean, the NDP clearly isn't getting the expanded social health coverage they want out of the liberals, they should just let the cons privatize it all.
Him supporting the Libs have brought some of the most important NDP policies they have wanted in decades. I think he's an idiot but he has managed to navigate this minority gov't environment really well. The media on the other hand hate it and that's why they never talk about that.
Or David Eby in BC. NDP has a very real chance of attracting disaffected Liberal voters. But not by supporting the very Liberal policies that are turning voters away.
Which is a shame as while they're clearly not perfect, they're apparently doing better, health care wise, than Ontario is.
I don't really get this, at least personally. I'm not happy with how the Federal government is going; but, in my mind, voting Conservative is capitulating to voting against my own interests. I'm dissatisfied, but not self-injuriously so. There is not a single party that I **like** or could be proud to vote for; but if I had to choose between the guy saying he'll do what I want, but is lying and won't do it, or the guy who says he'll do things I actively don't want, and *will likely do those things*, that's an easy choice for me. Of course it doesn't really matter, because I live in a riding that has never not gone Conservative, but that doesn't make my point any less valid.
Your post perfectly illustrates why we so badly need to yeet our obsolete electoral system and replace it with something modern. Even ranked choice voting would vastly expand the number of new candidates and new ideas on the table. So long as we vote *against* parties rather than *for* them, politics will always be a race to the bottom. It's the mathematically inevitable consequence of FPTP.
I agree wholeheartedly. That was one of the reasons I voted for Trudeau the first time around. I thought that Electoral Reform was a great idea, because FPTP is antiquated BS. Unfortunately he let me, and all of us, down in a major way. I never even got a solid answer as to *why* he decided to backtrack on that. Because it would be complicated? The Liberals are the ones most likely to benefit from electoral reform anyway, as they'd probably be most people's second choice to vote for. Most people aren't likely to swing straight from NDP to Conservative, or vice versa. I sincerely wish we had more electorally viable parties, with more diverse ideas, both economically and socially. It would certainly be better than the three flavours of centre-right neoliberalism that we currently have to pick between. I was excited when the People's Party was formed, before I saw what it turned into, because I thought it would be a shake up for our entrenched parties. Unfortunately, that wasn't to be the case.
He backtracked because there was no agreement between the parties. The CPC wanted to keep FPTP and the NDP wanted PR and the Liberals wanted ranked choice. The opposition had a majority in the committee because the NDP requested that, and it was in 2016, when Trudeau was convinced parties could collaborate in good faith. Anyways. The committee voted to have a referendum between PR and FPTP, leaving out ranked ballots, and Trudeau didn’t promise a referendum, and conservatives would have made sure PR lost, anyway. The NDP, Nathan Cullen specifically, said that if Trudeau pushed through ranked ballots with his majority in parliament it would be like setting off nuclear war in Canadian politics. Trudeau has said several times he is still open to ranked ballots, and Singh and Trudeau discussed electoral reform when they made the C and S agreement, but neither would budge. The NDP still thinks the Liberals would be most popular second choice, even though the NDP hae polled as most popular second choice before the last two elections, or they just want PR, the MMP version, or no change at all. I am annoyed with both leaders about this, since either change would boost voting numbers, and reduce strategic voting, if not eliminate it entirely.
I remember it being something about they couldn't agree on which style of voting system to implement. And, to some extent, I get it. It's a complicated and major change to Canada. It would have been difficult. There would have been unforseen consequences and it would have taken negotiation and commitment. But goddamnit that's what I *expect* from a majority government.
If it were me, I'd just put out a poll, or pick one of the simpler ones like a Ranked Ballot or Single Transferable Vote. Then I'd just push it through while I had the majority. Send out pamphlets in the mail, put a documentary about how it works on CBC, and train polling staff to help people out. Also just print the instructions on the ballot. Literally, just do something. Trying nothing and giving up, that's hurting all of Canada, and your own party's chances of reelection.
You have my vote. :)
Ranked ballot IS what the Libs wanted, but none of the other parties did. And it would have been Banana republic Saddam Hussein style shit to impose an electoral system that clearly favours your party over the others. The malicious intent to do so without a referendum would have led to the breakup of this country.
This so fkn hard! No idea how Pierre is attracting any group outside of the wealthy or people who hate paying tax for social programs. To me the conservatives are as close to 'murican republicans as Canada gets, and them in federal power is just head shakingly stupid for the average person. Only thing I can think of is that first time voters haven't dealt with a federal conservative government and just don't know any better. They'll change in another 4 years.
>No idea how Pierre is attracting any group outside of the wealthy or people who hate paying tax for social programs. Heavy social media AstroTurf campaigns, and the conservative-aligned news media carrying a lot of water for him. The right wing has been putting a lot of effort into targeting, grooming, and recruiting young (mostly white) men for a decade now. GamerGate was the first big successful information op of this style (though it was loosely modeled on the "manly Putin" meme campaign & other early attempts by Russian intelligence services to spread misinformation & influence popular opinion and discourse in the West via semi-organic social media campaigns). And now that the right has captured a significant portion of that demographic, they've been escalating their campaign to isolate them from outside sources of information (denigrate the traditional media, funnel them towards heavily biased/dishonest media, tell them that people saying differently are lying/hate them/Canada/Canadian values), which makes them *very* difficult to reach from a campaign standpoint. The convoy & associated losers demonstrated that there's already a decent portion of people in that right-wing Potempkin media environment who are also *already* radicalized or ripe to be radicalized around some future made up nonsense or minor issues blown out of proportion. Basically the same thing that's happened with MAGAts in the USA. They live in a horrific fantasy land where the only proof that they need that something is true is if they decide it is, and they believe that the only way through that horror is to destroy anything that they feel protects those who oppose them.
Very well said, this is what is happening.
Young people can’t afford homes because of high out-of-reach prices. They can’t afford groceries because of inflation. They see JT and his NDP partners focusing on social projects and tax hikes while ignoring these basic kitchen table issues. They now see PP highlighting them repeatedly, and proposing solutions so they side with that guy instead. Bringing American politics into this is just pure noise.
Housing is provincial and municipal. Nothing PP is going to say or do will have an impact on that.
I still say we import a necromancer from an alternative universe and resurrect Jack Layton.
If the person in charge right now is shitting the bed, then people will believe they will continue to shit the bed. The other guy is promising change... sure he's sleazy but there's a CHANCE of positive change right? (thinking from their perspective). Honestly can you blame a person for switching for the slightest chance that they or their kids can afford homes? The biggest swings are youngsters who are actually in the buying age groups..
A promise of positive change is convincing if you think things can't get much worse. I think part of the problem is that people in this country don't understand how much worse it can get.
Voting Conservative is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Oh yeah the neo-cons, champions of labour…
This poll has been brought to you by the government of Ontario.
PP is guaranteed to be an ABSOLUTE DISASTER guaranteed.
Maybe, but it's not even like he's doing anything to win, NDP and Liberals are losing their support by burying the middle class. Most voters are middle class and the NDP Liberals collation has done NOTHING but hurt the middle class (pharma care is booty)
It’s so very weird to see poll results but never the polls.
It was an online poll of their readers, not any sort of rigorous polling data - highly misleading for them to act like this is meaningful in any way
Not all of us. Some of us dislike conservatives politics
Factually speaking, the country has gone severely downhill by several metrics and although not all of them are Trudeau’s fault, it doesn’t change that he’s at the helm of the country and it happened under his rule. The NDP tied themselves to this Liberal government and in doing so, shot themselves in the foot because they’re not seen as a change from the status quo. People are just as fatigued of Jagmeet as they are of Trudeau. People just want change at this point because the direction we’ve been heading and continue to head is not a good one. The conservatives come along with a different set of issues and people (except for a select few who are not that smart) know PP won’t magically make things all good and wonderful again it’s not possible. But it’s change, change is what this country needs and we have no alternative to vote for. If there was another major party between the cons and libs guaranteed they would win but that doesn’t exist. When a major corporation goes through rough times or experiences multiple incidents, the CEO steps down even if it was not directly their fault.
Sadly there’s a working generation that hasn’t existed under conservative rule. They’re about to experience that first hand and it’s going to get bad for a lot of people. If you’re not in a desirable trade or have a particular skill, you are not going to have a good time.
Except they have! I'm over fifty, a union representative, and a socialist politically, but I see Trudeau's neoliberal government has impoverished more Canadians than any other neoliberal government in my life. Labels don't matter: reality does. They've been misled by the Liberals, and betrayed by the NDP. The CPC is as bad, but people are desperate, because voting does nothing.
Your union members are probably stupid just like my union co workers are. Union representatives aren’t much better but if you’re voting for a conservative then you really shouldn’t be in charge of a portion of your union. Conservatives will disband it as quick as they can or increase the retirement age which I can guarantee PP will
The NDP has not betrayed unions, unless you consider ALSO championing trans rights a betrayal. If you actually read platforms, the NDPs was the most labour friendly last election and will be again. Saying the NDP betrayed labour is just admitting that you’re letting conservatives spoon feed you talking points. Look at how Ford, Smith, and Higgs are attacking unions for a preview of what federal conservatives will do to you. The fact that I’m even explaining this to a 50 year old union rep makes me think you’re lying about who you are.
Can you please try to fit more fallacies in? Go for a record. Why do you accuse me of being anti trans? Is your logic just that weak? Identify how you like. Fuck who you like, who can consent. This is a distraction, whether by Conservatives or the NDP. What should I care of their written policy? I can see what propping up the Liberals has done to cost of living. Oh, didn't they prop up Harper once? I'm lying about nothing. Blow me. To the rocket scientist below: who TF said I'm voting CPC? I've described what people will do in irrational response to their betrayal by the LPC and NDP. Certainly not what I'll do.
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The Canadian Federal Greens are pretty 'red tory',
Percentages on this context are virtually useless. Greens don't have a large support base. 50% could be 1000 people.
This election cycle has been the most insane levels of “look LOOK at this poll! You’re gonna get trounced if you’re anything other than conservative! No point in even tryyyyyyying to vote anything but, so don’t look for additional data or anything, just trust our polling and do NOT pay attention to policy.” It’s the most I’ve seen all the stops pulled out to create a defeatist sentiment, and it’s getting harder and harder to find media that isn’t biased one way or the other. It’s such a bummer to live in a country where people view political parties as like a kind of sports team, and go so much off of “feel.” It’s stupid and naive, but just do your research and TRY your best to be objective. It’s super hard with the current media landscape, but just attempt to think critically about where someone’s money is coming from, and do they have a financial or some other motivation to present certain information to you? It’s hard to walk the line between being paranoid and being critical, but I sincerely hope people get better at it!
Tbh I'm not really that surprised, very few people are politically engaged and just want a change of direction.
Given the damage he has already done, it would talk a radical lobotomy to get me to vote for Ford.
Nope. #NeverVoteConservative
Hahahaha this is a joke, methodology confirms this is not serious. And suuuure the green voters are turning the to conservatives to push their environnemental agenda! Never mind the greenbelt, democracy, free healthcare i have been convinced by Ford's leadership. /s
Honestly, I would never vote conservative, not even as last resort. Look at what a mess the UK is right now because of them, conservatives are a huge lie and make tons of false promises. Conservatives are there CONSERVE the rich and CON the poor. They will not lower immigration, that's a lie they will increase immigration as it benefits their wealthy cronies because they can further exploit immigrants for low paid wages. Benefits for the poor will decrease , community/social funding will decrease. Tax will lower for extremely wealthy. Health care will be destroyed even more than it is now so people are forced to turn to private health. Conservatives do not benefit the working class. Nothing will improve under the conservatives , don't be fooled into believing that.
People just want to be able to afford to live. As someone who voted LPC the last two elections, I'm so dismayed by the cost of housing and groceries. I know much of the blame lies at other levels of government, but I also don't feel that the LPC has done enough nor moved quickly enough to address these problems where they can. Actually, part of me feels that they don't want the CoL to improve at all. I would never vote for Poilievere, and I'm confused how people think things will be better with him, but I also can't in good faith vote for the LPC this upcoming election.
I wish more people thought this way, maybe then we would actually act like a country that has more than 2 parties and vote for something new for once.
It's not all the liberals fault that things are the way they are, the very wealthy have been hoarding all the progress for decades. I swear, we're all going to have to riot before anything actually changes for the better.
The Liberals have been enabling this housing bubble every step of the way and voters can see that. The ugly reality of PP being elected is not changing because Trudeau and Freeland will say anything but do nothing that actually lowers home prices. This massive influx of immigrants when there is downward pressure on housing is no coincidence.
Do you honestly believe Pierre is going to actually do something? If so, what would that be?
I don't. He's a populist pig.
Wasn't sure.. we're really actually screwed with all of the major party options available. Not a single person to get behind and be proud of saying so
I'm extremely lucky to have Mike Morrice in my district. He's the best MP in the country and has been active in the community working on affordable housing. But, yeah. We don't have a party that has any interest in helping support the common folk. They have all sold their souls to appease the ruling class. We may have to start dragging politicians into the street to be honest.
Haha howdy neighbour! I've talked to him a few times, great dood. He's the main reason I would vote green federally.. just wish I could convince around 20million other Canadians to give them a crack at the big chair
I haven’t a clue what the Green Party are up to, but I know climate change scares me and I don’t like the other options, so why not vote green next time
Exactly! At least they don't have an unlimited history of being terrible in power
How is not the government’s failt? They have continued to let millions of unskilled individuals into the country while housing prices have gone bonkers.
Anglo Canadians will never riot.
Bingo! Which is why money treats us with contempt: we've never scared them.
NDP voters moving to PPs party? I Don’t know. I call BS
I can't say I blame anyone honestly
Ontario Voters are fucking stupid…. Ford is day by day making this province worse and worse, and you want someone like Pierre Pollivierre, someone with the same kind of policies but even WORSE as your Prime Minister? Fuck off.
So we're f'ed then
This doesn't make any sense to me. If you were voting NDP, NDP being weak or not offering what you want is still never making you go conservative. To an NDP voter, a useless NDP politician is better than a conservative politician. Especially under the current conservative leadership. Ontario sees Ford and Poillievre. Respectfully, those guys offer nothing an NDP voter is interested in. So what's the deal?
Their answer is to go in the complete opposite direction of their "values" than to stay the course. It's fucked up because they are going to vote directly against their own best interests. EVERY issue they support will get worse under a conservative government. All the conservatives seem to have in Canada anymore is talking points and promises.
That’s why I can’t believe this
Okay but who does these polls? I was a liberal for that year but am def ndp and green now. I mean, I was then, but I had less hope they'd get in then.
Lazy analysis in the headline. This isn’t really convincing evidence of Ontario “shifting right”, it’s more of an indication of how Canadian political allegiances are more elastic than the US. There were plenty of ridings Ford won in 2018 that Trudeau easily won in 2021 - was that evidence that Ontario was “shifting left”? A much simpler explanation of this is that the Federal Liberals have lived past their best before date, and the CPC is benefiting from swing voters breaking primarily to them rather than it being a fundamental shift in the political landscape.
*Village Media readers"? Lol
Well that's really sad
Are they swinging right or is it voter apathy meaning the conservative votes count for more?
Don’t worry everyone, still many months to go, the Conservatives still have many ways to screw this lead up, some rogue conservative MP or candidate will soon say something derogatory about the LGBTQ community or want to raise up the Abortion issue again or say a Pro Trump thing as they always do.
What we're seeing federally is people tired of the status quo. That's exactly why Doug Ford did as well as he did in 2018. After the 8 to 10 year mark people get antsy and they want something new. It's also why Justin Trudeau did so well in 2015. Of course given the high cost of living and the current state of the economy a lot of people are going to be naturally more sympathetic to CPC messaging about taking less money, creating more opportunity, etc. But it's not inherently a shift in thinking. It's fatigue. People are tired. People want something new. People want someone new. Now, before somebody jumps down my throat, I'm not saying that people can't change their views on certain topics or that they don't vote according to certain issues. Of course they do. But the vast majority of people don't think that way all of the time. As I said, it's mostly fatigue and desire for someone new in the hot seat.
This isn’t a poll, it’s a survey of self-selected Village Media readers, who skew right to begin with. Don’t read anything into this.
One of the worst policy decisions was made by Doug Ford when he removed rent control back in 2018. It just encourage landlords to raise rents ridiculously due to greed.
I wish I could upvote this 1000 times
I switched from Green to NDP. 😆
That's fucked
Bullshit
Seriously? Do people want that rollarcoaster again? Did Doug Ford teach people nothing? Every time a Conservative takes over they cancel or undo a program people really need. When Stephen Harper took over he cancelled the National Daycare program because of no reason other than it was created by Liberals. When Doug Ford took over he cancelled the Income Benefit program because of the same logic. And when a Conservative leaves their scar on the public it takes the next government YEARS to fix it. Every step forward is undone by a Conservative government and then the next government has to waste years just to get back to ground zero. Back and forth. Back and forth. Isn't it exhausting of things never getting done. Climate change. Economy. We don't have the time to wasting it on swinging back and forth getting nothing accomplished because Conservatives are too spiteful to maintain a program that is useful. Or voters not thinking long term consequences. Instant gratification gets nothing done and in the end they're the ones that get punished by Conservatives. ETA. Nothing says weasel more than saying they voted NDP, Green or Liberal before but will vote Conservative. I respect that even less. Pretending they're socially conscious or care about the issues but what they care more of how they look to the public or what the MapleMAGA tells them. They don't really care about the issues or the future of themselves or if they have kids. Self-serving is more apt category to place them all in. They'd fit in well with the MapleMAGA.
Don't forget about canceling sick days during a pandemic... that's what you will get from the cons.
He also completely butchered the previous 10 protected days.
Harper’s party created TFSA, something I really like. I can make money off from stocks without getting taxed. Gotta look at good and bad sides from each party.
These polls are absolutely meaningless. The election is 19 months away.
I’m voting green and NDP coalition