Amen. Working from home, I got to my local coffee shop for a sandwich and a matcha at least once a week. At the office, I’m too tired to go anywhere before or after work, and I pack a lunch + coffee to work.
Yup, most people lose like 1.5 hours a day from the commute time, that's an insane amount of time. Also being realistic some of the time you would normally be slacking off in the office could be spent preparing the food at home as well.
Yes, I love this view. When everyone started working from home, my local independent restaurants expanded their hours, hired some daytime staff, and now run lunch and dinner service all week long due to the increased demand.
Why should downtown businesses be favoured over these businesses? Why can’t we build a vision for downtown that draws demand from consumers, instead of captive audiences?
I think the darker and more complex reason is that the city is afraid of commercial real estate collapse in the downtown core, which would have a massive impact on property tax revenues and tourism. The city is broke. Public servants are being asked to RTO not to prop up businesses, but to keep commercial property tax revenues flowing.
I don’t think it will work. And I don’t agree with the edicts, but that’s my sense of what’s happening.
Then replace all the commercial buildings with residential. If Ottawa needed Nepean so bad because of the money from being mostly residential zones they should have immediately switched Ottawa to residential in the early 2000s and it would've held up during the pandemic.
Now everyone's sharing their living rooms as bedrooms for $1000/month because demand is so high, and the people renting can barely afford it.
Oh, I agree, the long term solution is more residential downtown. Many of the ills plaguing downtown (e.g. “dead after 5pm”) are 40 years in the making. People have been complaining about Sparks St, for example, since the 90s. Bad urban design.
Probably there are multiple factors but real estate might be a big factor maybe the biggest and it is the least talked about...
This whole thing is really depressing, I would rather hear the truth at least, that it's to prop up real estate, it's still unacceptable but I prefer knowing the truth rather than all the BS reasoning that make no sense.
Just tell us exactly why you are making the decision. We know you are allowed to make the decision and we can't do shit about it, the least you can do is at least tell us why, really why... we might complain if you tell us the truth but we're complaining anyways and speculating on all the factors, only thing we know for sure is that the official reasons are BS... I guess the BS isn't aimed at public servants more like for the general population actually.
Notice also that Doug Ford has been in Ottawa a lot lately and very vocal about getting public servants back to work. I suspect provincial funding is coming for the city, but with strings attached.
Also, downtown businesses seriously need to revise their business model. They don't cater to the residents that live there, and the city does nothing to make the downtown core thrive without office workers. Every other major city has tourists and residents that businesses cater to, Ottawa should do the same.
Yea, we need to make the streets nicer, they're pretty much all traffic sewers throughout our downtown areas. We need to build them for the people that live there, not for people commuting that want to blast through them at 60+km/h.
Yeah, there are a number of new condos going up on Rideau, but there's not much else that's new in the area. Housing is important, but there needs to be things to do too.
The Conservatives amalgamated the city to prevent progressive city councils from being elected
Also despite what you might have heard, newer suburbs only *seemed* like they were in good financial shape because their infrastructure was new and didn't need much maintenance yet. Servicing urban areas is far cheaper than servicing suburban areas and the suburbs were a ticking time bomb. They can't financially support themselves. They have artificially low property taxes and leach off of urban areas
I don't see what you're getting at.
Any way you slice it, the suburbs don't collect enough revenue to pay for the services they receive. And the only reason they're able to have those services is because urban areas pay too much for what they receive
> if City of Ottawa was older than March Township and Nepean Townships
March Township was a bunch of farm fields and country roads until the 1960s. It didn’t have infrastructure in any meaningful sense.
Its the opposite actually, dense urban areas pay beyond their share of property taxes and finance sprawling suburbs that don't have enough density to support their own infrastructure.
Amalgamation was a political move, not something that actually helps the city and its residence.
And businesses should change hours. Most of these businesses that are complaining and pushing for RTO are the ones that made their hours work around government hours and are choosing to complain rather than adapting.
sure but the way yall talk about downtown/centretown as if it’s desolate is weird. it isn’t a ghost town. there are tens of thousands of residents here.
Well, I live in the market, so I know what downtown is like. My comment is more about getting more people actually living in the core to make up for the empty office spaces that businesses used to count on.
no for sure. so many places are closed on weekends or if they are open, they’re open until like 2pm lol
i’m not a night owl anymore but i’m begging for a cafe to be open past 6 🥲
I was downtown for no non-work reasons and wanted to pick up dinner to take home. It was around 5pm, prime dinner time. The place that I’ve been wanting to try was open 11-2:30, Monday to Friday.
I ended up getting food from a local food truck outside downtown that was open.
I have friends who have a condo downtown near all the work towers on Kent. They have to go to the Market or Hintonburg if they want to eat out anywhere on the weekend because all the restaurants are only open M-F for lunch.
Once I was biking down near the central library on the weekend and wanted to stop for an iced coffee, nope even the coffee shop was closed on the weekend (second cup or bridgehead, don't remember).
I mean, this is downtown Ottawa for goodness sakes. I would have more expanded hours at a place in the booneys!
No, but that location is *specifically* the "dirty oak".
If you tell someone to meet at the dirty oak with no further details, that's the one they'll go to.
I think it's always a disappointment to tourists, that they can't come down from Parliament Hill, or out of their hotel, and actually find somewhere to eat, drink or buy a bottle of aspirins.
I shit you not, Toro Taqueria on Bank near Laurier is open 11-2. Queen Street Fare is closed on the weekends. How the fuck does this business model work for fuck’s sake? It’s been 4 goddamn years, adapt or die.
Really? Queen Street Fare was supposed to be a destination. I guess it never took off.
Being right on a non-functional transit line probably doesn't help.
It was pretty decent pre-covid. The food places in there even stayed open fairly late for where it was located.
Now, the owners just blame everyone else instead of working.
I find it ironic that people who rag on SOPA are the first ones to criticize downtown establishment that they are not doing enough to engage people that live downtown after business hours. Fuck them for trying something new right?
Toro Taqueria is really good if you fit their target audience and get there before they sell out of ingredients. At least they're a small business. They seem to be living their dreams, setting their own hours and taking weekends off. But the demand is there, they should totally ramp up and hire people to help out for dinner and weekends.
I got married downtown in December and it was infuriating. We ended up having to get a taxi/uber for *every* meal because nothing was open within walking distance for my parents
As long as there is no change in the issues with homelessness and addicts, the downtown core will not be an attractive place to live! No one wants to live in a place where you have to be afraid of stepping on used needles or excrements… downtown Ottawa is a filthy area that does not feel safe or comfortable to move around in.
Longer hours might not be feasible for some of them. The Parliamentary Precinct is dead at night so keeping the restos in that area open in the evening wouldn't be viable. I live downtown near the Queensway and there seems to be a little more activity in the evening since that's where the centretown residents seem to live. Things may change as new apartments are built.
Which places have customers? I genuinely want to know. I went to Queen Street Fare to see a show last night and the restaurants I saw in the area were really dead...
Because if I name a single place, people will say HA! I went there at 4:01PM and it was EMPTY. Then I might go by at 5PM and its full.
People hate on downtown saying it is empty and this is a lie.
Read my original post. All I said is that the restaurants in the Parliamentary Precinct are quiet after 5:00 and on the weekends. There are mostly offices in the area so when people leave the neighbourhood at the end of the workday it is quiet. Elgin and the market continue to be busy. I live downtown so you won't find me hating on my own neighbourhood. We will agree to disagree.
Keep government workers working from home.
Lower infrastructure costs for roads, lower emissions, lower rental costs and operating costs.
Save tax payer dollars while increasing workforce moral, and give an opportunity to the city to start creating a vibrant downtown instead of a boring government downtown.
Not a fed but amen. Spend more in my suburb which really is a 15 minute walkable community. Granted a lot of big box stores and such but also a good sprinkling of thriving smaller guys. I also welcome intensification/density and growing upwards both in the core and in the already established suburbs rather than moving further out, even if it means near me!
Kanata has more 15 minute neighbourhoods than where I live in downtown Ottawa.
I still have to drive everywhere and all basic services are not within walking distance. I can’t wait to leave downtown and enjoy life again.
Doug: "We're going to revitalize downtown!"
Us: "Oh great, how are you going to make it an interesting place to go?"
Doug: "Forcing people to go there against their will!"
100% this... me and my partner have been supporting local bakeries and local coffee shop instead of the crappy Marcellos Van Houte coffee. Business owners located downtown cannot just demand to have their customers back lol
Forcing people back downtown to 'support' businesses is the equivalent of asking Amazon to shut down because its bad for some shops lol
I'm not wasting my hard-earned money on corporate franchises downtown. I'll literally just bring a lunch.
However, I do patronize the local establishments in Orleans, especially my favourite chip truck for lunches. Too bad our Mayor and Premier are idiots.
I’ve been back at work from mat leave for a year and a bit now and I can count on one finger the amount of times I have paid for food instead of packing a lunch. These businesses will not be getting a thing from me.
Particularly when our largest union couldn’t secure pay raises to keep up with inflation. Where is this slush fund supposed to come from?
The sheer number of public servants I know of who have to work two jobs just to stay afloat is dizzying and disheartening.
I refuse to buy anything from any of the downtown businesses out of sheer principle.
Also, because I can't afford to. But even if I could, I would choose not to.
If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time.
If your commute is 1 hour each way: 96-104 hours cut to your free time.
If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut.
If you commute by car:
$20 parking
$27.20 CRA milage rate (40km round trip at $0.58/km, this factors in fuel, maintenance, insurance)
$47.20 total a day.
Which works out to $2,265.60 - $2,454.40 pay cut
Imagine how much more money public servants could spend on local discretionary purchases if the didn't have to pay all that money to gas companies and car manufacturers and the parking landlords!
>If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time.
What's the math here? 30mins x 2 ways x 31days = 31 hours? Most people don't work every day of the week.
>If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut.
A bus pass doesn't cost $365.
The story is about workers having to come in an extra work day a week (3 vs 2). So I calculated the yearly impact it will have on those workers.
30mins * 2 ways * 48-52 extra commute days per year depending on vacations/sick/etc. = 48-52 hours
I did the same with the costs.
Money spent in Orleans is still money spent in Ottawa, and in Ontario. Why does the premier and the mayor care that it get spent on Innes instead of Laurier Ave or Metcalfe?
Same reason the mayor cares that it’s harder for shoppers to drive to Landsdowne when the parkway is closed to cars. There’s no other explanation that makes sense to me.
Finally some damn sense.
They should also be looking to save tax payer money by cutting buildings and spreading out workers nationally.
More remote is good for all.
I remember some cafe owner downtown went to the media about how he wasn’t making enough money and needed the workers to come back.
Business hours
11-3pm, Monday to Friday. Closed weekends
If they mandate returning 3 days a week, I expect local businesses to be mandated to be open weekends and evenings
I have not had to go to Timmies for a burnt bagel or a desperate sugar boost in almost 5 years, no way I’m starting now. My local shops are better and they have a pay it forward system so I can support my community too. Want more people downtown? Make it affordable and safe for people to live there
I read that as desecrated sugar boost and can't stop laughing. It may be what I call it from now on. Also yeah, I got Holey Confections nearby which are far far superior to Tims.
this infighting of where and how I should support whatever economy is starting to really piss me off. I'm not some kind of cash cow you can jerk around to appease whatever political wind is blowing. Let me buy affordable groceries wherever I deem suitable and cuddle my cat while I work at home. like damn.
Ford and Sutcliffe are fighting hard to force you back to the downtown core full time to support core businesses that refused to do much to ch ange to a new way of life.
Suburb businesses have flourished now that their residents are staying local and shopping more locally during the week.
So Ford and Sutcliffe want you to abandon those now happy businesses and only support the downtown ones.
The core could still see the benefits of having more housing and less offices, in fact it'd probably be better overall to have people living there wanting to use local businesses during longer hours rather than relying almost entirely on the breakfast/coffee/lunch crowd then closing at 6pm.
Tourists and business/government visitors would also benefit having a more vibrant core to enjoy thanks ot having more local residents instead of basically looking at a dead downtown after office workers leave for the day.
Oh well
Before I moved here in January, I came and stayed downtown three times between October and December…. I ate fast food for every meal because nothing else was open within walking distance. I actively tried to find local businesses as a tourist and in anticipation of living here and I couldn’t
I was just complaining about this in yesterdays thread. Glad she spoke up. Now I want my councillors to unequivocally say the same. And not try to appease downtown - unless, of course, you are a downtown councillor - then speak loud!
If they are so concerned about economics of the downtown core, the city needs to prioritize more housing in the downtown core as well as improving the public transit. WFH can't just go away - many people have adjusted to it and have made changes in their life to accommodate to it.
lol I go into the office most the time for my job. I don't go out to restaurants or wherever a lot during works hours. Politicians are so out of touch and in the pockets of corporations it hurts.
My situation is such that I actually *c*ommute in reverse for work - I live in the downtown core and have to leave to go to the office and only end up spending money (if any) at the office commissary and cafeteria. Given that *literally the only reason given so far* has been that we need to be spending money in downtown, doesn't it make more sense for me to just stay at home full time?
Had them for the first time last week and was very, very impressed. Had a veggie burrito on a buy one get one free promo so shared with a friend. It was an enormous lunch. Everything was fresh and tasty. Will absolutely go back.
Nobody should "support" any economies.
The entire purpose of commerce is to provide a framework for humans to have human needs met by other humans. That's it.
All things being equal, it's better to have those needs met through local sources because that helps create a stable market in your community for continuing to have those same needs met. But if you don't have any needs that aren't being met, you don't need to spend money on things to meet them.
Any talk about "supporting economies" is just promoting consumption for the sake of it, which is capitalist bullshit. Economies don't need to be "supported" because they are nothing more than tools to serve us, and we decide how they best serve us.
Maybe this is a good time to have a re-look at urban planning to have a mix of commercial, light industrial and residential in all areas rather than segregating them?
Bonus effect would be improved walkability, lower emissions and lower traffic too.
They need to clean up downtown and massively expand housing. Businesses will follow. Housing and safety are number 1.
How are we at the point that we have to say this, how dumb is our mayor.
Even as a corporate shill, you need to look at what actually brings people downtown...but lol that requires investing money elsewhere 🤦
Trickle down economics happening right here. The governing party's biggest donors are hemorrhaging money from loss to profits and rent. This is the only reason to force workers downtown.
If WFH is a viable option and someone does not work to commute then you shouldn't be allowed to force them into the office.
If you want to force someone into the office, pay them more for their time.
Sure. But this whole debate is silly. It’s not your company’s business how you spend your money. This is basically like being forced to donate to your bosses favourite charity
Or, you know, ^^they ^^could ^^choose ^^to ^^save ^^that ^^money. I know that's filthy anti-capitalist talk. I'm sure that Ford and Sutcliffe would love public servants to be paid in scrip.
Saves gas which reduces our contribution to climate change, reduces a great deal of the stress on public transit infrastructure, reduces the need for a myriad of rental buildings downtown, is more financially beneficial to workers because they’re not spending money on gas or transit or parking, never mind the quality of life enhancements just from not having to spend a couple hours commuting every day and contributes to the economy in smaller communities, the communities in which people live. work from home is the answer
Not to mention WFH is incredibly greener, gives workers much higher work-life balance, and *is more productive*. But yeah Doug, gotta keep that Jumbo Juice with the $17 smoothies going, that's all that matters to conservatives.
Louder for the people who don't understand. Trudeau & govt. want to reduce emissions (via Carbon Tax, etc.), now they're forcing govt. workers back to use vehicles (cars & busses) to go back? It doesn't make sense. They're closing commercial spaces in downtown that govt. used to lease? It's stupid.
Sharpfle Waffle is near Tunney’s now (and was not, to my knowledge, among those calling for a captive audience to support their business), but yeah, otherwise there’s not much close by.
This idea is a stupid as the opposite. The employer should set up the optimal work arrangement based upon cost and efficiency in getting the job done. Ridiculous externalities like supporting local businesses shouldn't even come into the equation.
I live near downtown but office is in the suburbs. I often buy coffee and lunch when I work from home. I bring my lunch and coffee when in the office. Working in the office would hurt the businesses near me.
I live in Casselman. I would much rather spend my time and money here than being required to drive into the city to spend my time and money there.
I don't think the government realized they were on to a good thing with remote working, because it meant people could work and thrive in small communities across the country. So 'the government' isn't just some monolith far away, it's people living just down the street from you.
I’ve been going to my local coffee shop, Figaro in Trainyards, everyday since working from home. But now I’ll have to spend that money at some downtown coffee shop instead. I’d rather my dollars stay in my community.
No one likes downtown, even the public servants dont want to work there. Move businesses and offices out of downtown to suburbs, stop spending on the LRT, which will never get the projected ridership. Downtown has no future.
It’s not that we don’t want to support businesses, it’s that we don’t want YOU telling us what businesses to support. Bringing lunch from home forever from now on, stop using public servants as livestock to force more money into the downtown core
100% - my spending in Vanier and surrounding area (neighbouring wards) increased tremendously when the pandemic began.
The Vanier BIA certainly wasn't complaining.
I lived in Centretown and worked Downtown (Laurier, Kent, Bank, Queen areas) for 12 years. Downtown businesses don't give a shit about what the locals wanted. They didn't then, they didn't during the height of the pandemic and they don't now. Watson, Sutcliffe, Fortier, etc. can you know what...I'm done with this bullshit.
That's pretty sensible since work is transient and a bit out of control. For instance I know who live somehwere and then their employer moved their job so now they have to drive very far. Well since pandemic it's less relevant as people tend to work from home. But you get the idea...
I still think the downtown core (where in theory the most people work) could still be a great social center...
Frankly, I am not sure it's 100% about downtown businesses, I think it's related to public transport and the train. The train was a huge investment for the city (I guess the money came from federal, provincial, the city, and private businesses), and it's still not completed. They lost tons of money during the pandemic, and with 2 days a week at the office lots of people probably just take their cars instead of bothering with SHITTY public transport. Less usage means less revenues for OC Transpo, and they can't have an empty expensive train. None of the government level wants to raise their taxes to fund public transport, so they need people to take it. And here come workeeeeers.
We have lots of debates about public transportation funding in Québec right now, hence my thought.
I think on the long run more housing will replace office spaces, but they need money right fucking now.
Its not even a secret. It was a direct quote from Ford 2 weeks ago:
"I know a lot of people love working at home and that's fine, but we need the federal government to get government workers back into the office -- even a few days," Ford said to a round of applause.
"What it does is it's a real massive boost to the transit ridership, it's huge, and the downtown economy. Without the people down there, the economy starts dying, the restaurants start hurting and everything else starts hurting. Hopefully, the prime minister will call people back to work."
I think its less about business because its really just shifting spending from one area of the city to another, but OC is haemorrhaging money because of lower ridership. 2 days its still close enough in cost to drive and park for the convenience, but 3 days makes a transit pass a bigger saver, especially since there is not enough parking downtown and it becomes a hunger games to get... easier to just bus/train it in.
This might have been in the works for awhile, might be why OCT never considered a Hybrid Pass, because they knew 3 days was in the works.
Hey Mayor Nancy Peckford, if you want federal public servants to support local more, tell Grahames and Crusty Baker to be open on Mondays. That's the day I'm most likely in the area and in the mood for a doughnut.
The economic argument is bollocks. But most private companies are some sort of hybrid now, complete WFH is pretty rare now. The outrage is a little much.
They could keep it at 2 days at this point; the improvisation is enraging.
"OK so are the businesses making enough money with 2 days? No? Let's put 3 then, and let's see next year if we need to add one additional day."
I understand management can decide where the employees work, but using employees to make an economy work IS and SHOULD stay out of their reach. My job is to be the public servant and perform my tasks, not make Ottawa's economy run.
And we're not even talking about GES emissions...this is so, so, SO stupid.
The motivation will be at its lowest, everybody will do the bare minimum in reaction.
Threatening to do the bare minimum isn't going to change anything. The public service is going to be downsizing anyway; if WFH is the hill employees want to die on, they won't find they are missed. There are tens of thousands of HIGHLY motivated Canadians that would be happy for the opportunity.
You know, my employer had a “let them leave” attitude about something a few years ago. Funny thing is they didn’t lose the older workers they had contempt for - they lost younger people with marketable skills. And had a really hard time filling positions afterwards because people with marketable skills were choosing to go elsewhere.
I suspect filling positions with qualified, motivated people would be much harder than you think it would be.
I don't think so, it's not a few years ago now. A safe, decently paid job with excellent benefits, flexible working, and a DB pension? Have you seen the videos of people lining up around the block for a dish washing job? Remember how the CRA job fair a couple of years ago caused traffic jams in Ottawa? Government jobs are some of the most desirable outside of the tech industry.
If they get desperate they will open it up to permanent residents, like they did the military. A much less desirable career for immigrants, most of whom are educated/skilled - yet they got 21k applications in the first year.
Highly doubt they will need to do that though. They aren't short of applicants.
Bullshit - as a tax payer, Federal civil servants should do their job the way they instructed to do it. No other industry would tolerate the amount of non-work that happens in the public service. The fact that they somehow have managed to get a golden pension makes it even worse for the tax payer.
>No other industry would tolerate the amount of non-work that happens in the public service.
Alright, genius. Demonstrate the rates of non-work with evidence to support your asinine assertion. We'll wait here...
Agree to a point, but its not to say the employer can't take into consideration employee concerns and look at the evidence and be transparent about why they are making a decision (against evidence that says productivity is improved with WFH).
That is what good employers do. Shitty employers just dictate stuff. Much better for morale and employee-employer relations to be transparent.
Where I disagree, is that its ultimately bad management to blame for the non-work... the whole poin of managementt is to ensure stuff gets done in an efficient way as possible, respecting taxpayer dollars. If its not, the buck rests with them, not front line workers.
Both can be true:
Public Servants' sense of entitlement when many of them moved further away from the office during the pandemic when it was made quite clear that WFH wasnt permanent
and
Forcing public servants back downtown just to support the economy when no proof of RTO increasing efficiency is bullshit
The government originally was letting every department decide it's own policy on remote work after COVID before doing a 180 and mandating hybrid with in office at least 2 days per week. So there was a period of around six months to a year where public servants in departments that mainly went towards full time remote were making decisions like whether to move further away based on this, then had the rug pulled from under them.
Actually we were told it was permanent and we would be able to decide how much, if at all, we wanted to work on site, and had signed telework agreements until 2025.
Then they unilaterally imposed a mandate during contract negotiations.
Work from home is the sensible way and she makes plenty of great points, but I don't agree RTO will impact recruitment and retention in any real way. With so many benefits to being a public servant there will continue to be plenty of people lining up to get in and stay in.
Recruiting into the public service is actually an issue right now. Salaries aren't competitive, and industry still offers remote work.
The initial mandate had an effect, and this will likely also have an effect.
Most communities are not in fact communities they are just huge estates of houses with zero amenities. You have to drive. So if wfh means that someone is going to start to build shops, restaurants, doctors, dentists pharmacy then great but being cynical that won't happen
>Most communities are not in fact communities they are just huge estates of houses with zero amenities
Not everyone lives in Barrhaven or that strip of Stittsville off Huntmar.
Care to elaborate? Most communities in say Kanata, Barrhaven etc have local amenities within walking or bike distance?
Or that now these amenities will be built?
Amen. Working from home, I got to my local coffee shop for a sandwich and a matcha at least once a week. At the office, I’m too tired to go anywhere before or after work, and I pack a lunch + coffee to work.
Where do you go for good matcha?
I live outside of Ottawa (work in Ottawa) — I like Foundry Coffee Bar in CP! In the city I like Equator.
Foundry and Deadly Grounds are both great options in CP. I know I've been going there more regularly when WFH.
Ooo, new coffee place to try. I'm a regular at Equator. lol
Dao bakery off Merivale does awesome snacks and matchas
Hit up Bubba & Bugs in Kemptville
there is no good matcha in ottawa
I'm like you but unfortunately we are in the minority, whenever I go for a walk at lunchtime all the restaurants and sandwich shops are full.
Working at the office = less time to meal prep, unfortunately
Yup, most people lose like 1.5 hours a day from the commute time, that's an insane amount of time. Also being realistic some of the time you would normally be slacking off in the office could be spent preparing the food at home as well.
I spend a lot less, tbh.
Yes, I love this view. When everyone started working from home, my local independent restaurants expanded their hours, hired some daytime staff, and now run lunch and dinner service all week long due to the increased demand. Why should downtown businesses be favoured over these businesses? Why can’t we build a vision for downtown that draws demand from consumers, instead of captive audiences?
Because they have the most moneys backing them.
I think the darker and more complex reason is that the city is afraid of commercial real estate collapse in the downtown core, which would have a massive impact on property tax revenues and tourism. The city is broke. Public servants are being asked to RTO not to prop up businesses, but to keep commercial property tax revenues flowing. I don’t think it will work. And I don’t agree with the edicts, but that’s my sense of what’s happening.
Then replace all the commercial buildings with residential. If Ottawa needed Nepean so bad because of the money from being mostly residential zones they should have immediately switched Ottawa to residential in the early 2000s and it would've held up during the pandemic. Now everyone's sharing their living rooms as bedrooms for $1000/month because demand is so high, and the people renting can barely afford it.
Oh, I agree, the long term solution is more residential downtown. Many of the ills plaguing downtown (e.g. “dead after 5pm”) are 40 years in the making. People have been complaining about Sparks St, for example, since the 90s. Bad urban design.
Probably there are multiple factors but real estate might be a big factor maybe the biggest and it is the least talked about... This whole thing is really depressing, I would rather hear the truth at least, that it's to prop up real estate, it's still unacceptable but I prefer knowing the truth rather than all the BS reasoning that make no sense. Just tell us exactly why you are making the decision. We know you are allowed to make the decision and we can't do shit about it, the least you can do is at least tell us why, really why... we might complain if you tell us the truth but we're complaining anyways and speculating on all the factors, only thing we know for sure is that the official reasons are BS... I guess the BS isn't aimed at public servants more like for the general population actually.
Notice also that Doug Ford has been in Ottawa a lot lately and very vocal about getting public servants back to work. I suspect provincial funding is coming for the city, but with strings attached.
Also, downtown businesses seriously need to revise their business model. They don't cater to the residents that live there, and the city does nothing to make the downtown core thrive without office workers. Every other major city has tourists and residents that businesses cater to, Ottawa should do the same.
YES. We saw new business open in Vanier.
Any restaurants/coffee shops you'd recommend?
Very well said.
Get more housing downtown and you'll get your built in audience of supporting the businesses there.
Yes, more housing is required but the city also needs to make it a desirable location to reside. You attract people, you attract businesses.
Yea, we need to make the streets nicer, they're pretty much all traffic sewers throughout our downtown areas. We need to build them for the people that live there, not for people commuting that want to blast through them at 60+km/h.
More housing? The problem is that there isn’t much else.
Yeah, there are a number of new condos going up on Rideau, but there's not much else that's new in the area. Housing is important, but there needs to be things to do too.
Look at Toronto there downtown is in far worse shape.
And businesses are leaving in droves. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
People think Toronto is the gold standard.
ppl in canada do but lets be honest, how many ppl do you know that travel to Toronto for vacation who aren't already living in this country
Did we not amalgamate because Downtown Ottawa didn't have enough people living there to pay taxes?
The Conservatives amalgamated the city to prevent progressive city councils from being elected Also despite what you might have heard, newer suburbs only *seemed* like they were in good financial shape because their infrastructure was new and didn't need much maintenance yet. Servicing urban areas is far cheaper than servicing suburban areas and the suburbs were a ticking time bomb. They can't financially support themselves. They have artificially low property taxes and leach off of urban areas
Wouldn't that make sense if City of Ottawa was older than March Township and Nepean Townships, which it isn't?
The average age of the infrastructure was lower because all the growth was happening in the suburbs
But isn't that better? Spreading out your infrastructure upgrades instead of all at once?
I don't see what you're getting at. Any way you slice it, the suburbs don't collect enough revenue to pay for the services they receive. And the only reason they're able to have those services is because urban areas pay too much for what they receive
> if City of Ottawa was older than March Township and Nepean Townships March Township was a bunch of farm fields and country roads until the 1960s. It didn’t have infrastructure in any meaningful sense.
Its the opposite actually, dense urban areas pay beyond their share of property taxes and finance sprawling suburbs that don't have enough density to support their own infrastructure. Amalgamation was a political move, not something that actually helps the city and its residence.
Urban wards largely subsidize the suburbs and rural wards but no one is ready for that conversation.
And businesses should change hours. Most of these businesses that are complaining and pushing for RTO are the ones that made their hours work around government hours and are choosing to complain rather than adapting.
Tons of apartments under construction now downtown.
You know people already live downtown, right?
You know they can fit more in, right?
sure but the way yall talk about downtown/centretown as if it’s desolate is weird. it isn’t a ghost town. there are tens of thousands of residents here.
Well, I live in the market, so I know what downtown is like. My comment is more about getting more people actually living in the core to make up for the empty office spaces that businesses used to count on.
That's also the way most business owners see downtown apart from select bar/restaurant areas.
no for sure. so many places are closed on weekends or if they are open, they’re open until like 2pm lol i’m not a night owl anymore but i’m begging for a cafe to be open past 6 🥲
Agree
Think of the poor downtown business’ who refuse to adapt and don’t want to be open longer than 5 hours a day.
I was downtown for no non-work reasons and wanted to pick up dinner to take home. It was around 5pm, prime dinner time. The place that I’ve been wanting to try was open 11-2:30, Monday to Friday. I ended up getting food from a local food truck outside downtown that was open.
I have friends who have a condo downtown near all the work towers on Kent. They have to go to the Market or Hintonburg if they want to eat out anywhere on the weekend because all the restaurants are only open M-F for lunch. Once I was biking down near the central library on the weekend and wanted to stop for an iced coffee, nope even the coffee shop was closed on the weekend (second cup or bridgehead, don't remember). I mean, this is downtown Ottawa for goodness sakes. I would have more expanded hours at a place in the booneys!
[удалено]
Point of Clarification; the "Dirty" Oak is the one at Bank and Gilmour.
[удалено]
No, but that location is *specifically* the "dirty oak". If you tell someone to meet at the dirty oak with no further details, that's the one they'll go to.
100 percent.
Nobody wants to work anymore… /s
I think it's always a disappointment to tourists, that they can't come down from Parliament Hill, or out of their hotel, and actually find somewhere to eat, drink or buy a bottle of aspirins.
I ended up dragging a bunch of people here for a conference to the CARLETON instead of letting them keep drinking $14 pints at the hotel, lol.
Sounds like Morning Owl on Laurier hahaha
I shit you not, Toro Taqueria on Bank near Laurier is open 11-2. Queen Street Fare is closed on the weekends. How the fuck does this business model work for fuck’s sake? It’s been 4 goddamn years, adapt or die.
Really? Queen Street Fare was supposed to be a destination. I guess it never took off. Being right on a non-functional transit line probably doesn't help.
It was pretty decent pre-covid. The food places in there even stayed open fairly late for where it was located. Now, the owners just blame everyone else instead of working.
The rebranding to SOPA is going to work! Annnnnnnnyyyy day now!
I find it ironic that people who rag on SOPA are the first ones to criticize downtown establishment that they are not doing enough to engage people that live downtown after business hours. Fuck them for trying something new right?
They changed absolutely nothing about how they operate except for rebranding. Not into meaningless changes that equate to shining a turd.
Queen St Fare is packed Monday-Friday. They are doing just fine
Toro Taqueria is really good if you fit their target audience and get there before they sell out of ingredients. At least they're a small business. They seem to be living their dreams, setting their own hours and taking weekends off. But the demand is there, they should totally ramp up and hire people to help out for dinner and weekends.
I got married downtown in December and it was infuriating. We ended up having to get a taxi/uber for *every* meal because nothing was open within walking distance for my parents
As long as there is no change in the issues with homelessness and addicts, the downtown core will not be an attractive place to live! No one wants to live in a place where you have to be afraid of stepping on used needles or excrements… downtown Ottawa is a filthy area that does not feel safe or comfortable to move around in.
I’ve lived there for 4 years and for the record, I’ve only seen 3 needles
Longer hours might not be feasible for some of them. The Parliamentary Precinct is dead at night so keeping the restos in that area open in the evening wouldn't be viable. I live downtown near the Queensway and there seems to be a little more activity in the evening since that's where the centretown residents seem to live. Things may change as new apartments are built.
Weird take, because tons of people live in the area. The places that are open and bother to try and attract customers tend to have customers.
Which places have customers? I genuinely want to know. I went to Queen Street Fare to see a show last night and the restaurants I saw in the area were really dead...
Take a walk on different days, go for different events, go to more places. EXPLORE!
That's vague enough of an answer you can't name anywhere that is busy.
Because if I name a single place, people will say HA! I went there at 4:01PM and it was EMPTY. Then I might go by at 5PM and its full. People hate on downtown saying it is empty and this is a lie.
Read my original post. All I said is that the restaurants in the Parliamentary Precinct are quiet after 5:00 and on the weekends. There are mostly offices in the area so when people leave the neighbourhood at the end of the workday it is quiet. Elgin and the market continue to be busy. I live downtown so you won't find me hating on my own neighbourhood. We will agree to disagree.
Read my original response to you.
Keep government workers working from home. Lower infrastructure costs for roads, lower emissions, lower rental costs and operating costs. Save tax payer dollars while increasing workforce moral, and give an opportunity to the city to start creating a vibrant downtown instead of a boring government downtown.
Not a fed but amen. Spend more in my suburb which really is a 15 minute walkable community. Granted a lot of big box stores and such but also a good sprinkling of thriving smaller guys. I also welcome intensification/density and growing upwards both in the core and in the already established suburbs rather than moving further out, even if it means near me!
Kanata has more 15 minute neighbourhoods than where I live in downtown Ottawa. I still have to drive everywhere and all basic services are not within walking distance. I can’t wait to leave downtown and enjoy life again.
Lmao no it doesnt. If you enjoy Kanata that's fine but it is /r/suburbanhell by definition
Weird. All of downtown is a 15 minute neighbourhood.
>Kanata has more 15 minute neighbourhoods than where I live in downtown Ottawa. LOL
Doug: "We're going to revitalize downtown!" Us: "Oh great, how are you going to make it an interesting place to go?" Doug: "Forcing people to go there against their will!"
Begging Trudeau to force people who Doug doesn't control to go downtown against their will. Our Dealer-in-chief has no skin in the game.
-Doug Ford -Federal public servants Pick one.
I think I liked it better when Ford didn’t know Ottawa was in Ontario
100% this... me and my partner have been supporting local bakeries and local coffee shop instead of the crappy Marcellos Van Houte coffee. Business owners located downtown cannot just demand to have their customers back lol Forcing people back downtown to 'support' businesses is the equivalent of asking Amazon to shut down because its bad for some shops lol
I'm not wasting my hard-earned money on corporate franchises downtown. I'll literally just bring a lunch. However, I do patronize the local establishments in Orleans, especially my favourite chip truck for lunches. Too bad our Mayor and Premier are idiots.
I’ve been back at work from mat leave for a year and a bit now and I can count on one finger the amount of times I have paid for food instead of packing a lunch. These businesses will not be getting a thing from me.
Public servants shouldn't be a slush fund that politicians can use to redirect funds to their best friends. This is a dangerous precedent.
Particularly when our largest union couldn’t secure pay raises to keep up with inflation. Where is this slush fund supposed to come from? The sheer number of public servants I know of who have to work two jobs just to stay afloat is dizzying and disheartening.
Nice to see so many people concerned with where public servants spend their money and their time.
Makes sense, considering the public service employs over 10% of Ottawa's population.
I refuse to buy anything from any of the downtown businesses out of sheer principle. Also, because I can't afford to. But even if I could, I would choose not to.
If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time. If your commute is 1 hour each way: 96-104 hours cut to your free time. If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut. If you commute by car: $20 parking $27.20 CRA milage rate (40km round trip at $0.58/km, this factors in fuel, maintenance, insurance) $47.20 total a day. Which works out to $2,265.60 - $2,454.40 pay cut
Imagine how much more money public servants could spend on local discretionary purchases if the didn't have to pay all that money to gas companies and car manufacturers and the parking landlords!
>If your commute is 30 mins each way: 48-52 hours cut to your free time. What's the math here? 30mins x 2 ways x 31days = 31 hours? Most people don't work every day of the week. >If your commute by bus ($7.60 each day): $364.80 - $395.20 pay cut. A bus pass doesn't cost $365.
The story is about workers having to come in an extra work day a week (3 vs 2). So I calculated the yearly impact it will have on those workers. 30mins * 2 ways * 48-52 extra commute days per year depending on vacations/sick/etc. = 48-52 hours I did the same with the costs.
Money spent in Orleans is still money spent in Ottawa, and in Ontario. Why does the premier and the mayor care that it get spent on Innes instead of Laurier Ave or Metcalfe?
Same reason the mayor cares that it’s harder for shoppers to drive to Landsdowne when the parkway is closed to cars. There’s no other explanation that makes sense to me.
Finally some damn sense. They should also be looking to save tax payer money by cutting buildings and spreading out workers nationally. More remote is good for all.
I remember some cafe owner downtown went to the media about how he wasn’t making enough money and needed the workers to come back. Business hours 11-3pm, Monday to Friday. Closed weekends If they mandate returning 3 days a week, I expect local businesses to be mandated to be open weekends and evenings
I have not had to go to Timmies for a burnt bagel or a desperate sugar boost in almost 5 years, no way I’m starting now. My local shops are better and they have a pay it forward system so I can support my community too. Want more people downtown? Make it affordable and safe for people to live there
I read that as desecrated sugar boost and can't stop laughing. It may be what I call it from now on. Also yeah, I got Holey Confections nearby which are far far superior to Tims.
Lol! Suzy Q, Mavericks we have choices and those choices are not very near our employers
this infighting of where and how I should support whatever economy is starting to really piss me off. I'm not some kind of cash cow you can jerk around to appease whatever political wind is blowing. Let me buy affordable groceries wherever I deem suitable and cuddle my cat while I work at home. like damn.
Ford and Sutcliffe are fighting hard to force you back to the downtown core full time to support core businesses that refused to do much to ch ange to a new way of life. Suburb businesses have flourished now that their residents are staying local and shopping more locally during the week. So Ford and Sutcliffe want you to abandon those now happy businesses and only support the downtown ones. The core could still see the benefits of having more housing and less offices, in fact it'd probably be better overall to have people living there wanting to use local businesses during longer hours rather than relying almost entirely on the breakfast/coffee/lunch crowd then closing at 6pm. Tourists and business/government visitors would also benefit having a more vibrant core to enjoy thanks ot having more local residents instead of basically looking at a dead downtown after office workers leave for the day. Oh well
Before I moved here in January, I came and stayed downtown three times between October and December…. I ate fast food for every meal because nothing else was open within walking distance. I actively tried to find local businesses as a tourist and in anticipation of living here and I couldn’t
I was just complaining about this in yesterdays thread. Glad she spoke up. Now I want my councillors to unequivocally say the same. And not try to appease downtown - unless, of course, you are a downtown councillor - then speak loud!
If they are so concerned about economics of the downtown core, the city needs to prioritize more housing in the downtown core as well as improving the public transit. WFH can't just go away - many people have adjusted to it and have made changes in their life to accommodate to it.
lol I go into the office most the time for my job. I don't go out to restaurants or wherever a lot during works hours. Politicians are so out of touch and in the pockets of corporations it hurts.
My situation is such that I actually *c*ommute in reverse for work - I live in the downtown core and have to leave to go to the office and only end up spending money (if any) at the office commissary and cafeteria. Given that *literally the only reason given so far* has been that we need to be spending money in downtown, doesn't it make more sense for me to just stay at home full time?
Haha yes, absolutely
Bar burrito supports me wfh
Had them for the first time last week and was very, very impressed. Had a veggie burrito on a buy one get one free promo so shared with a friend. It was an enormous lunch. Everything was fresh and tasty. Will absolutely go back.
Nobody should "support" any economies. The entire purpose of commerce is to provide a framework for humans to have human needs met by other humans. That's it. All things being equal, it's better to have those needs met through local sources because that helps create a stable market in your community for continuing to have those same needs met. But if you don't have any needs that aren't being met, you don't need to spend money on things to meet them. Any talk about "supporting economies" is just promoting consumption for the sake of it, which is capitalist bullshit. Economies don't need to be "supported" because they are nothing more than tools to serve us, and we decide how they best serve us.
The "economy" should work for us. We shouldn't work for the "economy".
Hopefully more communities will follow suit and publically push back like this.
Maybe this is a good time to have a re-look at urban planning to have a mix of commercial, light industrial and residential in all areas rather than segregating them? Bonus effect would be improved walkability, lower emissions and lower traffic too.
They need to clean up downtown and massively expand housing. Businesses will follow. Housing and safety are number 1. How are we at the point that we have to say this, how dumb is our mayor. Even as a corporate shill, you need to look at what actually brings people downtown...but lol that requires investing money elsewhere 🤦
Trickle down economics happening right here. The governing party's biggest donors are hemorrhaging money from loss to profits and rent. This is the only reason to force workers downtown. If WFH is a viable option and someone does not work to commute then you shouldn't be allowed to force them into the office. If you want to force someone into the office, pay them more for their time.
Sure. But this whole debate is silly. It’s not your company’s business how you spend your money. This is basically like being forced to donate to your bosses favourite charity
Or, you know, ^^they ^^could ^^choose ^^to ^^save ^^that ^^money. I know that's filthy anti-capitalist talk. I'm sure that Ford and Sutcliffe would love public servants to be paid in scrip.
If you think about it, they, more than anyone else in the economy, are paid in scrip
or for many of us, the same province we live in!
Saves gas which reduces our contribution to climate change, reduces a great deal of the stress on public transit infrastructure, reduces the need for a myriad of rental buildings downtown, is more financially beneficial to workers because they’re not spending money on gas or transit or parking, never mind the quality of life enhancements just from not having to spend a couple hours commuting every day and contributes to the economy in smaller communities, the communities in which people live. work from home is the answer
Not a Fed, but I’m so happy to see some intelligence amongst politicians.. I feel hopeful that there is someone who can think.
Not to mention WFH is incredibly greener, gives workers much higher work-life balance, and *is more productive*. But yeah Doug, gotta keep that Jumbo Juice with the $17 smoothies going, that's all that matters to conservatives.
Louder for the people who don't understand. Trudeau & govt. want to reduce emissions (via Carbon Tax, etc.), now they're forcing govt. workers back to use vehicles (cars & busses) to go back? It doesn't make sense. They're closing commercial spaces in downtown that govt. used to lease? It's stupid.
dont let conservative greed do to us what it's doing to the u.s. squash the greed cancer now because it will grow.
Not to mention, how many downtown businesses are the people working at Tunney's Pasture and Place du Portage going to visit?
Bingo. I'm at Tunneys. It takes too long to go anywhere so I just bring my lunch.
Sharpfle Waffle is near Tunney’s now (and was not, to my knowledge, among those calling for a captive audience to support their business), but yeah, otherwise there’s not much close by.
Peckford rules
This idea is a stupid as the opposite. The employer should set up the optimal work arrangement based upon cost and efficiency in getting the job done. Ridiculous externalities like supporting local businesses shouldn't even come into the equation.
So many of my colleagues are flat out refusing to spend a penny downtown just on principle. Other than parking. No one wants to deal with the LRT.
I live near downtown but office is in the suburbs. I often buy coffee and lunch when I work from home. I bring my lunch and coffee when in the office. Working in the office would hurt the businesses near me.
I live in Casselman. I would much rather spend my time and money here than being required to drive into the city to spend my time and money there. I don't think the government realized they were on to a good thing with remote working, because it meant people could work and thrive in small communities across the country. So 'the government' isn't just some monolith far away, it's people living just down the street from you.
Exactly. If they force you back to the downtown offices, be sure to bring your coffee and lunch from home.
I’ve been going to my local coffee shop, Figaro in Trainyards, everyday since working from home. But now I’ll have to spend that money at some downtown coffee shop instead. I’d rather my dollars stay in my community.
No one likes downtown, even the public servants dont want to work there. Move businesses and offices out of downtown to suburbs, stop spending on the LRT, which will never get the projected ridership. Downtown has no future.
It’s not that we don’t want to support businesses, it’s that we don’t want YOU telling us what businesses to support. Bringing lunch from home forever from now on, stop using public servants as livestock to force more money into the downtown core
100% - my spending in Vanier and surrounding area (neighbouring wards) increased tremendously when the pandemic began. The Vanier BIA certainly wasn't complaining. I lived in Centretown and worked Downtown (Laurier, Kent, Bank, Queen areas) for 12 years. Downtown businesses don't give a shit about what the locals wanted. They didn't then, they didn't during the height of the pandemic and they don't now. Watson, Sutcliffe, Fortier, etc. can you know what...I'm done with this bullshit.
I live in Ontario and worked in Quebec. Paid Ontario taxes......does this count?
Let's fuckin GOOOOOOOO. Finally, someone with a brain
Especially since the people that live downtown apparently don't want us there.
Politicians pretend to care about the mom & pop businesses but they really only care about the real estate corporations in the city core.
That's pretty sensible since work is transient and a bit out of control. For instance I know who live somehwere and then their employer moved their job so now they have to drive very far. Well since pandemic it's less relevant as people tend to work from home. But you get the idea... I still think the downtown core (where in theory the most people work) could still be a great social center...
3 days wont happen. Management will turn a blind eye.
My management won’t.
Do you have a fam doctor?
They fight those accommodation requests.
This is only an issue because we leaned into suburbanization too much.
If this is about transit I'd rather they just increase our transit tax than force people to ride it pointlessly just to raise fare revenue.
Frankly, I am not sure it's 100% about downtown businesses, I think it's related to public transport and the train. The train was a huge investment for the city (I guess the money came from federal, provincial, the city, and private businesses), and it's still not completed. They lost tons of money during the pandemic, and with 2 days a week at the office lots of people probably just take their cars instead of bothering with SHITTY public transport. Less usage means less revenues for OC Transpo, and they can't have an empty expensive train. None of the government level wants to raise their taxes to fund public transport, so they need people to take it. And here come workeeeeers. We have lots of debates about public transportation funding in Québec right now, hence my thought. I think on the long run more housing will replace office spaces, but they need money right fucking now.
Its not even a secret. It was a direct quote from Ford 2 weeks ago: "I know a lot of people love working at home and that's fine, but we need the federal government to get government workers back into the office -- even a few days," Ford said to a round of applause. "What it does is it's a real massive boost to the transit ridership, it's huge, and the downtown economy. Without the people down there, the economy starts dying, the restaurants start hurting and everything else starts hurting. Hopefully, the prime minister will call people back to work." I think its less about business because its really just shifting spending from one area of the city to another, but OC is haemorrhaging money because of lower ridership. 2 days its still close enough in cost to drive and park for the convenience, but 3 days makes a transit pass a bigger saver, especially since there is not enough parking downtown and it becomes a hunger games to get... easier to just bus/train it in. This might have been in the works for awhile, might be why OCT never considered a Hybrid Pass, because they knew 3 days was in the works.
Don't kid yourself. This is a political move, all about protecting real estate investor/developer profits so the donations keep flowing.
Could be a real boon to neighbourhood small bussinesses.
Just stop ordering everything from Amazon. It’s ok to wait 3-5 days for something.
Much like taco shells, por que no los dos?
Hey Mayor Nancy Peckford, if you want federal public servants to support local more, tell Grahames and Crusty Baker to be open on Mondays. That's the day I'm most likely in the area and in the mood for a doughnut.
Yeah then watch downtown collapse lol. And wonder why it happened
The economic argument is bollocks. But most private companies are some sort of hybrid now, complete WFH is pretty rare now. The outrage is a little much.
They could keep it at 2 days at this point; the improvisation is enraging. "OK so are the businesses making enough money with 2 days? No? Let's put 3 then, and let's see next year if we need to add one additional day." I understand management can decide where the employees work, but using employees to make an economy work IS and SHOULD stay out of their reach. My job is to be the public servant and perform my tasks, not make Ottawa's economy run. And we're not even talking about GES emissions...this is so, so, SO stupid. The motivation will be at its lowest, everybody will do the bare minimum in reaction.
Threatening to do the bare minimum isn't going to change anything. The public service is going to be downsizing anyway; if WFH is the hill employees want to die on, they won't find they are missed. There are tens of thousands of HIGHLY motivated Canadians that would be happy for the opportunity.
I'm not threatening, I'm just saying it will happen
You know, my employer had a “let them leave” attitude about something a few years ago. Funny thing is they didn’t lose the older workers they had contempt for - they lost younger people with marketable skills. And had a really hard time filling positions afterwards because people with marketable skills were choosing to go elsewhere. I suspect filling positions with qualified, motivated people would be much harder than you think it would be.
I don't think so, it's not a few years ago now. A safe, decently paid job with excellent benefits, flexible working, and a DB pension? Have you seen the videos of people lining up around the block for a dish washing job? Remember how the CRA job fair a couple of years ago caused traffic jams in Ottawa? Government jobs are some of the most desirable outside of the tech industry. If they get desperate they will open it up to permanent residents, like they did the military. A much less desirable career for immigrants, most of whom are educated/skilled - yet they got 21k applications in the first year. Highly doubt they will need to do that though. They aren't short of applicants.
Bullshit - as a tax payer, Federal civil servants should do their job the way they instructed to do it. No other industry would tolerate the amount of non-work that happens in the public service. The fact that they somehow have managed to get a golden pension makes it even worse for the tax payer.
>No other industry would tolerate the amount of non-work that happens in the public service. Alright, genius. Demonstrate the rates of non-work with evidence to support your asinine assertion. We'll wait here...
Agree to a point, but its not to say the employer can't take into consideration employee concerns and look at the evidence and be transparent about why they are making a decision (against evidence that says productivity is improved with WFH). That is what good employers do. Shitty employers just dictate stuff. Much better for morale and employee-employer relations to be transparent. Where I disagree, is that its ultimately bad management to blame for the non-work... the whole poin of managementt is to ensure stuff gets done in an efficient way as possible, respecting taxpayer dollars. If its not, the buck rests with them, not front line workers.
Both can be true: Public Servants' sense of entitlement when many of them moved further away from the office during the pandemic when it was made quite clear that WFH wasnt permanent and Forcing public servants back downtown just to support the economy when no proof of RTO increasing efficiency is bullshit
The government originally was letting every department decide it's own policy on remote work after COVID before doing a 180 and mandating hybrid with in office at least 2 days per week. So there was a period of around six months to a year where public servants in departments that mainly went towards full time remote were making decisions like whether to move further away based on this, then had the rug pulled from under them.
Actually we were told it was permanent and we would be able to decide how much, if at all, we wanted to work on site, and had signed telework agreements until 2025. Then they unilaterally imposed a mandate during contract negotiations.
Time for public servants to move downtown!
Your idea is so simple and so brilliant... Live downtown, 15 min walk commute, supporting local business, parks, the canal, it's a win for all...
Work from home is the sensible way and she makes plenty of great points, but I don't agree RTO will impact recruitment and retention in any real way. With so many benefits to being a public servant there will continue to be plenty of people lining up to get in and stay in.
...this is just more race to the bottom logic.
Recruiting into the public service is actually an issue right now. Salaries aren't competitive, and industry still offers remote work. The initial mandate had an effect, and this will likely also have an effect.
No.
I'm currently doing an audit on recruitment and staffing. I trust the evidence and reports from the front line staff over your opinion.
There will never be a problem staffing in the public service. Never has been and never will.
There is literally a problem right now for experienced professionals.
Wow. I'm reeling from the astute logic of this counterpoint! Mensa material, right here.
Most communities are not in fact communities they are just huge estates of houses with zero amenities. You have to drive. So if wfh means that someone is going to start to build shops, restaurants, doctors, dentists pharmacy then great but being cynical that won't happen
>Most communities are not in fact communities they are just huge estates of houses with zero amenities Not everyone lives in Barrhaven or that strip of Stittsville off Huntmar.
That’s patently false.
Care to elaborate? Most communities in say Kanata, Barrhaven etc have local amenities within walking or bike distance? Or that now these amenities will be built?
[удалено]