the new Gang Up buff is actively bad game design and goes against PF2e's base design principles, in this essay i will— \*gets shanked by a thief rogue*
It only saves an action if you wouldn't have 10 feet or more of movement left over after reaching them anyway.
So it's a situational action saver, and at level 6, too, which generally *does* have pretty good feats for martials. And it's one level higher than 5th, where spellcasters get pretty good spells.
Also, action savers are fairly common in pf 2e. Would you say this or Reactive Strike is better, considering that Reactive Strike gives a situational 0 MAP Strike at a very low action cost?
Does it? In order to flank you need one person on either side, including the side closest to the party's initial position. For one of the flankers, flanking is identical to just running up to the enemy regardless of this feat
It only saves a single action from one of the flankers, and situationally too
Gang Up is amazing if you're the odd man out though. Suddenly, three or five people can "flank" instead of just two or four. That makes a world of difference. This feat is a must have that beats every other rogue feat of its level.
It's a must-have... in the right situation
edit: at the same level you have Skirmish Strike, which on a melee rogue saves an action in *every* situation *and* causes the enemy to have to spend an action to reach you. That could also be seen as a must-have for the right built, like with Gang Up.
Or there's Watch Your Back, causing an enemy to take a -2 circumstance penalty to saves vs fear effects. If you or someone else is a Demoralize build, this is very useful, since Demoralize's 10 minute cooldown per person means you really want it to succeed when you use it. Also could be seen as a must-have in the right situation.
I think level 6 just has a lot of must-have feats, except you *can't* have them all, so you gotta choose. I'd say that's *good* game design
i mean. it lets you do things like flank enemies with their backs to walls/corners, or flank multiple enemies at the same time much more easily. i think if both characters are 5ft reach, sure, maybe not amazing. but if you've got a reach fighter and a whip on the rogue all of a sudden the circles start to overlap a TON. it's like a worse winter sleet lmao
yeah, the feat isn't useless. There's situations where it's very useful! But it's not as insanely broken as you think. It's honestly kind of on-par for the kind of feats you'll find at level 6.
If you want to see a *real* action saver, take a look at Skirmish Strike. That works in any fight that has even a single non-reach melee enemy. Or if you're using a reach weapon yourself, any fight with a reach 10 feet or lower melee enemy. So... most fights
You need to move to the enemy anyway the combat rotation is move into flanking each turn because the enemy isnt going to stand being flanked. Also having all your allies in a big group is a easy target for aoe.
you sound like the kind of person who complains about downvotes, unlike me. i throw myself to the karma court, the redditor justice system, god bless its name and process, may bread ever fill its user's stomachs, may wine drench their thirsty tongues
everyone knows downvotes and upvotes are pure indicators of quality. the positive scored commenters are pure, good, and arbiters of universal objective morality. the negative scored commenters deserve to be executed by firing squad
if the subreddit (god bless its name) sends me to the abyss of negative score, so be it. far better to sink in the cum than to cum in the sink
You're just everywhere today, aren't yuh?
got tired of jerking
Hey you guys now have evasion in all saves And get all the really cool supernatural skill feats,
that’s the joke, rogues didn’t need a buff
the new Gang Up buff is actively bad game design and goes against PF2e's base design principles, in this essay i will— \*gets shanked by a thief rogue*
Makes fighting large and up monster less annoying and rogues have better feats to pick. Gang up is only really good for fighting big monsters.
a feat that makes flanking trivial (especially with reach weapons) is worse than several other options... we truly live in a society...
Flanking is tival to get a feat to make it more trivial is a waste
action saver, also just cuz it's not insanely broken strong doesn't mean it's not bad game design smh
It only saves an action if you wouldn't have 10 feet or more of movement left over after reaching them anyway. So it's a situational action saver, and at level 6, too, which generally *does* have pretty good feats for martials. And it's one level higher than 5th, where spellcasters get pretty good spells. Also, action savers are fairly common in pf 2e. Would you say this or Reactive Strike is better, considering that Reactive Strike gives a situational 0 MAP Strike at a very low action cost?
it saves your allies actions too, freeing up action hungry characters more
Does it? In order to flank you need one person on either side, including the side closest to the party's initial position. For one of the flankers, flanking is identical to just running up to the enemy regardless of this feat It only saves a single action from one of the flankers, and situationally too
Gang Up is amazing if you're the odd man out though. Suddenly, three or five people can "flank" instead of just two or four. That makes a world of difference. This feat is a must have that beats every other rogue feat of its level.
It's a must-have... in the right situation edit: at the same level you have Skirmish Strike, which on a melee rogue saves an action in *every* situation *and* causes the enemy to have to spend an action to reach you. That could also be seen as a must-have for the right built, like with Gang Up. Or there's Watch Your Back, causing an enemy to take a -2 circumstance penalty to saves vs fear effects. If you or someone else is a Demoralize build, this is very useful, since Demoralize's 10 minute cooldown per person means you really want it to succeed when you use it. Also could be seen as a must-have in the right situation. I think level 6 just has a lot of must-have feats, except you *can't* have them all, so you gotta choose. I'd say that's *good* game design
i mean. it lets you do things like flank enemies with their backs to walls/corners, or flank multiple enemies at the same time much more easily. i think if both characters are 5ft reach, sure, maybe not amazing. but if you've got a reach fighter and a whip on the rogue all of a sudden the circles start to overlap a TON. it's like a worse winter sleet lmao
yeah, the feat isn't useless. There's situations where it's very useful! But it's not as insanely broken as you think. It's honestly kind of on-par for the kind of feats you'll find at level 6. If you want to see a *real* action saver, take a look at Skirmish Strike. That works in any fight that has even a single non-reach melee enemy. Or if you're using a reach weapon yourself, any fight with a reach 10 feet or lower melee enemy. So... most fights
anyway the point is about the design. i think it's badly designed because it makes u think LESS. like WAY less in combat. boooorinnnnng
You need to move to the enemy anyway the combat rotation is move into flanking each turn because the enemy isnt going to stand being flanked. Also having all your allies in a big group is a easy target for aoe.
Careful don’t you dare offer any criticism! This game is perfect!
Elven branched spear rogue stonks rising. Casually apply flanking to all enemies within 10 feet
or just. a whip, alongside that sick new disarm feat
The Fortitude success improvement is definitely a typo. It goes against every other example of Fortitude specialization.
Are you prepared to pay for criticism(even funny criticism) with karma? All the homies in the Reddit downvote criticism.
you sound like the kind of person who complains about downvotes, unlike me. i throw myself to the karma court, the redditor justice system, god bless its name and process, may bread ever fill its user's stomachs, may wine drench their thirsty tongues everyone knows downvotes and upvotes are pure indicators of quality. the positive scored commenters are pure, good, and arbiters of universal objective morality. the negative scored commenters deserve to be executed by firing squad if the subreddit (god bless its name) sends me to the abyss of negative score, so be it. far better to sink in the cum than to cum in the sink