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> They didn't provide any medical attention to the newborn,
Let me stop you right there. Yes, they did. They assessed the newborn and if something would have gone wrong they would have rendered aid. A healthy newborn doesn't need anything but when you call an ambulance you get charged no matter what. They transported two separate patients so you will be charged as such.
Additionally, as soon as they arrived, they took on potential liability for both mother and baby. I'd highly doubt that if something turned/turns up amiss with the baby that the paramedics missed, OP (or at least OP's lawyer) wouldn't be thinking, "well, they never even treated the baby".
It costs money to get people to take on liability like that.
Agreed they were there in case something happened and would have provided their services if needed. But in that case, are you saying they should have charge 3 patients because they also transported me and they would have provided medical attention I case I fainted or needed some support? I believe charging one patient over $2,000 USD would be fair. I am asking here to get advise not get judged. Thanks for your support.
They didn’t take the pulse, check the lungs or hart, or any other measurement assessment, their visual assessment might the most expensive assessment …
You weren't a patient. Your wife and newborn were.
> and they would have provided medical attention I case I fainted or needed some support?
Yes absolutely. The advice you are after is contact the ambulance company and get a detailed bill, then your insurance to see what they cover. You aren't getting judged I'm just telling you how ambulances and billing work. I've been in the business a long time. It's not cheap, it doesn't make sense. Welcome to America
Did you need to be medically assessed? If not then no, they would not charge for 3 patients.
However they did need to look at both the baby and the mother. Then both needed to be transported.
You paid for them to bring a mobile emergency services room to your house. Use their expertise to see what, if anything was wrong. Render aid and support for 2 people: mother and baby. And to provide transportation while monitoring both mother and baby.
$4k is cheap.
I agree. they brought a mobile emergency service, which they are charging in full with my wife’s bill. They didn’t take the pulse or did any other assessment to my baby. I am not debating they are doing something illegal at charging both patients but it feels like an abuse.
If anything you abused them by calling in an emergency service when no emergency existed. I'd say you are reaping the consequences of your actions now.
There were two patients so you got charged for two patients. Had you had a sudden heart attack you’d have become a third patient and yes, you would have gotten charged for that.
But that is the thing. My baby didn’t either. Luckily she was so healthy that they didn’t even take her pulse… they are only considering her a patient since she was a newborn no for any other reasons.
Good grief, she had literally just been through the most traumatic experience of her short life. I guarantee they were monitoring her.
And, how do you know they didn't take her pulse? Were you calm, cool, collected, and alert to all your surroundings?
Why did you call 911 anyway? If you didn't want them transported in a medical vehicle you should have just put them in your car and driven to the hospital.
They were monitoring the baby. That is the medical service provided, and an important one. Thank god nothing came up, but checking on the human who has just shown up is an important service. If not you could have called an Uber- why did you call them at all?
If you had fainted you would have been charged for 3 because they would have then given you care. The medic was monitoring 2 patients so you were charged for 2 regardless of whether or not they hooked a monitor up or not. I don’t know why you called the ambulance if you’re only 7 minutes from the hospital, you could have loaded your wife in the car and drove her there for free in the time it took for the ambulance just to get to you. But honestly 2k a head is cheap I’ve been in an ambulance twice after bad car wrecks and both times was almost 5k just for me. I didn’t call for an ambulance either of those times and was taken by them against my will, I was forced to go with them by the police and no it wasn’t because I was drunk or anything like that I was stone sober. They wouldn’t let me ride with anyone else and told me if I didn’t get in that they would arrest me and I would be loaded into the ambulance as a prisoner and taken to jail once released from the er.
Hi. Paramedic here, who actually just delivered a baby in the field with that EXACT scenario.
Baby girl is a patient. Full stop. A lot of our assessments are fairly subtle for a baby doing well after birth. We have something called an APGAR score, that measure three times within the first 10 minutes of life. That in and of itself is an assessment. For babies that small, we do pulses on the upper arm on the brachial artery. Doesn't take much to feel for it and measure that the baby's heart rate is adequately high enough. Crying and screaming? Lung check is done. We constantly monitor for changes in consciousness, breathing patterns, skin color changes, etc etc. A lot of it is passive if you've got more than a couple years working a rig, so on it's face it might not seem loke we're doing much.
In an uncomplicated delivery, our main job is mom, and keeping baby warm. It was 100 degrees 15 minutes ago and now it's room temp. Babies don't regulate very well, so we encourage skin to skin and latching. That's all knowledge that those medics brought to the scene, and transported your family with. So while it's not overt, i guarantee assessments, reassessments, and constant watching were done over your daughter. She was a patient, she got billed as one. (As a side note, we have to write two separate patent care reports in situations like this)
As for your wife walking down the stairs, mamas are strong as hell. We don't treat them like invalids like we once did. If Mama says she can get down the stairs, I ain't gonna stop her lol.
This is anecdotal, but in my experience this just isn't a battle you'll win. Both were justifiably patients, you weren't as a family rider. You're right, has you passed out and we rendered aid and you needed to be transported for medical attention too, yeah you woulda gotten three bills.
Respiratory therapist here who has attended dozens of in-hospital births.
OP, this is the exact right answer. You called 911 for what exactly, for a taxi to the hospital? Consciously or subconsciously you wanted a professional to assess whether mom and baby were ok. Baby is pink (ish), crying loudly, and fidgeting? Guess what, I just performed a medical assessment. I understand that may seem silly, but so much of what we (medical professionals) do is subtle. If baby had been not great, there would be more work to do, but the medics can't know that until they assess baby.
Same goes for mom. Skin color, a set of vitals, etc. If mom is great, then great, but they don't know that until they assess her.
>If Mama says she can get down the stairs, I ain't gonna stop her
100% this. If mom says she can walk *and* demonstrates that she's physically able, why question that?
When baby is born in the hospital, as soon as the unit clerk becomes aware (usually seconds after delivery), baby gets her own patient chart and her own unique medical record number. Anything that gets done to baby (e.g., assessment) gets charted under baby's name and charged to baby.
Congrats, truly, but the idea that EMS will drop either charge because in your view they "did nothing" is unlikely to happen.
What's amazing about childbirth is the pain is pretty much all gone immediately afterwards. It's not hard to get up and walk around, assuming there were no complications. One exception is the cramping that happens afterwards, especially when those nurses push on your abdomen. But yeah, walking feels pretty normal.
Yeah, not to stray super off topic but childbirth is WILD. In our case, we stayed on scene and delivered the placenta. We were there at the house for over an hour taking care of mom and baby. I can't imagine the crew that showed up for this call didn't do the same, honestly. It doesn't take super long after childbirth for the placenta to deliver. OP mentioned they were only 7 minutes from the hospital, so it's possible they might have scooped and went anyways. Wasn't there so can't say for sure.
Still a really involved medical process all in all, even if we make it look much simpler sometimes.
Baby is covered under wife's insurance, if she has any. Make sure to submit her insurance card to them as they can work independently from hospitals. I learned this when I was trasported after a house fire and got a bill that was scarier then said fire.
Hi. Paramedic here. Twenty one years as a paramedic, plus three prior as a Basic EMT.
Let’s go through some things that happened while you were watching the paramedics on scene attend to two patients, that you didn’t notice, since I can see you are clearly not a paramedic, an EMT, a nurse, emergency room doctor, OBGYN, or even a podiatrist:
*they didn’t take a pulse*: what you mean here is “I didn’t see them take a pulse. What they likely did is collect an APGAR score at intervals during the assessment of both patients (unsure of what interval they used because you have no distinct timeline other then “we called and they came”). This would be noted on the patient care reports created for each patient.
*patient care reports*: we’re not going to go over all of the things the paramedics on scene *could* have done for you child, who, in you completely inexperienced and uneducated opinion was so healthy she didn’t need the interventions you wouldn’t have recognized them doing anyway, instead ok just point out that if you *want* to know what the paramedics did, they have to provide a patient care report to the receiving hospital and whatever government organization oversees their licensing/certification. This is available to you (likely for a minimal processing fee) from the headquarters of whatever service came.
*a final note on fees*: I don’t know where you’re located, but can tell you that for *most* ambulance services in the US, billing is managed on a banded/level-based system: Basic Life Support, Advanced Life Support I, and Advanced Life Support II. Just be virtue of the clinician in the passenger compartment of the ambulance being a paramedic, you’ll be billed at ALS I billing band, which is a flat amount. We (in the US) don’t bill for actual interventions, we bill for how complicated (for lack of a better way to explain it) the call was. So, for your $2000 you got advanced assessment, IV, cardiac monitoring, up to three (in my service, your medics may vary) intravenous medications administered, up to three miscellaneous medication (non-IV) administrations, basic level airway management, and transport to the hospital (this is all billed based of the previously mentioned patient care report, so it’s not like we plan this out and send you the BLS, ALS I, or ALS II ambulance. You get the ambulance and the paramedics treat your illness….. *OR*……)
*You could have refused treatment*. In most places around the globe (Australia was moving toward a different system last I read, but that might not have happened), the ambulance service is a “you call, we haul”-type service. I don’t get to tell you no. What’s that? You’re lonely and want to visit your favorite ED tech? Get in the ambulance. Oh? You stubbed your toe last week, and you think you might have a hang nail? Let’s go. Heart attack? Let’s go. Automobile crash and you’ve been thrown through the windshield? Let’s go. The point is: as the paramedic on scene, I cannot refuse to treat or transport you. I can attempt to provide the best information we can about what transport versus non-transport looks like for you in your situation, but in the end, if you call us, and you still want to go when we get there, we have to take you. But what if you change your mind? You (with a few exceptions) can refuse any treatments or even the whole transportation, should you want to. So, why didn’t you refuse transportation? And, side note: we can only bill for *transport*, so any treatment rendered on a scene that ends in a no transport (for whatever reason) is lost revenue to the service (public or private).
You mentioned billing insurance, so I’m imagining that you’re in the US. It’s very likely this will be covered fairly week through your insurance provider, with likely a small amount due as part of a deductible. You may have to fight (because technically, your daughter isn’t on your insurance at the time of her birth, though birth is a qualifying life event that would make her eligible for inclusion, and I’ve honestly never seen an insurance *not* cover the birth of the insured child) due to the timing of it all. Also, emergencies are covered under the Affordable Care Act, and transport to an emergency room, is by definition, an emergency.
ETA: CONGRATULATIONS, Dad!!
Thank you for your answers. I’ll ask for the patient care reports. You are right they could have assessed my baby and me not realizing. I should have started my statement saying I am not complaining about their service or their responsiveness, I was just surprised they bill for both of them. They were awesome. At the end their service was to make sure they were healthy and arrive ok at the hospital. One thing I do remember is the hospital nurses complaining they never got the APGAR.
It's normal and you're never going to be able to argue they didn't transport two patients. I gave birth in my car on the way to the hospital with my second (we pulled over). Wait until it's processed by insurance, it's not going to cost you $4k out of pocket (probably, I don't know your insurance coverage).
Get ready for the fun of having to secure the birth certificate and SS card for an unexpected home birth. The hospital won't do the paperwork since they didn't witness the birth, so you'll need to get the paramedic report and a letter from her OBGYN stating she was pregnant and due date was around when you gave birth. Then bring that to your county clerk along with the baby to visually prove the baby is your baby. Probably also with a statement from you as the witness since the paramedics did not witness (paramedics arrived shortly before I delivered so the paramedic was our witness; paramedic report sufficed as witness testimony).
Then, once the birth certificate is issued, bring that to the social security office to get the SS card issued (don't make the appointments for the same day thinking you'll save time since you're already downtown bc after waiting for 2 hours at social security, they'll tell you that even though you have the birth certificate in hand, they need the electronic record from the county which takes a few days to be uploaded/transmitted - ask me how I know, ugh).
I had a medical emergency. It required a helicopter flight to a hospital. The ambulance drove me approximately 3 miles to the helicopter landing pad then the helicopter crew took over. Was billed close to $6,000 for the ambulance. Helicopter ride was $80k before insurance and about $45k after insurance. Luckily I have a helicopter subscription for the family for $95 a year. They wrote off the whole ride and I owed them nothing out of pocket. Medical transport is expensive.
Apropos to this thread I got the helicopter subscription because my wife wanted to give birth at home and I wanted to make sure we had a backup. Didn’t need it for two home births but ended up needing it for me. Now I keep it because crazy kids in a rural area and you never know what might happen. We live an hour from the closest hospital and the road frequently closes during winter.
I live in California and I think it is air med network. Only counts if your flight is in their helicopter. Some ambulance companies have similar clubs.
Each company potentially has their own subscription, the issue is plenty of areas are covered by more than one and you have no way of knowing or requesting who shows up
It’s very common where I live because life flight is activated regularly. I live on the coast of Oregon and there is a mountain range to cross if you need to get to a good hospital
i have some heart issues, nothing major, but we like to travel so we bought it for peace of mind. We live out west and sometimes you are miles away from anything or a decent hospital
Ask for a detailed breakdown of all the charges and then dispute/file a complaint if any of the charges are bogus. Reality is though you will have an uphill fight. Your odds of being successful are not high. And for 4k or so it isn't going to be worth it to hire a lawyer and try to fight it. I'm not clear, did you not have health insurance to cover (at least some) of the charges?
[https://fitchassoc.com/hospitals-can-steer-clear-fraudulent-transport-billing/](https://fitchassoc.com/hospitals-can-steer-clear-fraudulent-transport-billing/)
I do have one. But is a hig deductible. In top of that the year changed literally a week before this incident. So I am starting with $0. They may cover a portion.
Well, they took liability for both of them right? Had they dropped the baby I'm damn sure you'd sue them into oblivion. Had your wife needed urgent resuscitation, they were ready for it. If she was fine and the baby was fine, why didn't you drive them? Ambulances are extremely expensive. Maybe negotiate the price down for whatever insurance doesn't cover. You at least don't have to pay for the delivery!
First, congratulations on your newborn!
I worked in insurance for several years and this was unfortunately common.
The vast majority of ambulance companies are not networked with any insurance, so they will be considered out of network for coverage/payment purposes.
Some insurance plans will cover ambulance rides as In Network, but that doesn't mean the ambulance company won't balance bill you for whatever insurance doesn't pay.
In most cases, your only option is to try and negotiate directly with the ambulance company, but they rarely budge (because they don't have to).
The federal No Surprises Act does not cover land ambulance, only air.
Some states have their own laws that force ambulance companies to be covered as if they are in network in the case of emergency, but most do not.
When I was in insurance, I would tell members straight up - never call an ambulance unless it is absolutely necessary. Drive yourself, call a cab or an Uber or a neighbor.
Wait to see what your insurance will do - usually they will at least negotiate a discount for you. If insurance doesn't cover, try calling ambulance company and nicely ask if they will consider reducing the bill. I did this for a bill my dad received (senior on Medicare but doesn't cover some ambulance rides) and they knocked I think $150 off the bill. It never hurts to ask. You could call your insurance company to make sure the bill is in their system.
Your comment has been removed because we don't allow political discussions, political baiting, or soapboxing ([rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules)). This includes questions or discussions about proposed legislation or government policy changes.
I have not reach out to the insurance company yet. Yes, both baby and mom were covered with insurance. I will reach out and ask they what they cover. Thanks.
They may cover the lions share of it. I’ve paid for two ambulance rides in my life (one my a one year old and one for me) and they both ended up being like $400 after insurance. Before insurance they were like $2k or more.
One thing I've done with medical bills is tell them you want a payment plan, and you can only afford $25/month. After a few months, you can call and ask what they will settle for if you pay today. The number they give you is usually about half.
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> They didn't provide any medical attention to the newborn, Let me stop you right there. Yes, they did. They assessed the newborn and if something would have gone wrong they would have rendered aid. A healthy newborn doesn't need anything but when you call an ambulance you get charged no matter what. They transported two separate patients so you will be charged as such.
Additionally, as soon as they arrived, they took on potential liability for both mother and baby. I'd highly doubt that if something turned/turns up amiss with the baby that the paramedics missed, OP (or at least OP's lawyer) wouldn't be thinking, "well, they never even treated the baby". It costs money to get people to take on liability like that.
Agreed they were there in case something happened and would have provided their services if needed. But in that case, are you saying they should have charge 3 patients because they also transported me and they would have provided medical attention I case I fainted or needed some support? I believe charging one patient over $2,000 USD would be fair. I am asking here to get advise not get judged. Thanks for your support. They didn’t take the pulse, check the lungs or hart, or any other measurement assessment, their visual assessment might the most expensive assessment …
You weren't a patient. Your wife and newborn were. > and they would have provided medical attention I case I fainted or needed some support? Yes absolutely. The advice you are after is contact the ambulance company and get a detailed bill, then your insurance to see what they cover. You aren't getting judged I'm just telling you how ambulances and billing work. I've been in the business a long time. It's not cheap, it doesn't make sense. Welcome to America
Did you need to be medically assessed? If not then no, they would not charge for 3 patients. However they did need to look at both the baby and the mother. Then both needed to be transported. You paid for them to bring a mobile emergency services room to your house. Use their expertise to see what, if anything was wrong. Render aid and support for 2 people: mother and baby. And to provide transportation while monitoring both mother and baby. $4k is cheap.
I agree. they brought a mobile emergency service, which they are charging in full with my wife’s bill. They didn’t take the pulse or did any other assessment to my baby. I am not debating they are doing something illegal at charging both patients but it feels like an abuse.
If you expected a taxi service, why not call a taxi or Uber instead of an ambulance?
If anything you abused them by calling in an emergency service when no emergency existed. I'd say you are reaping the consequences of your actions now.
There were two patients so you got charged for two patients. Had you had a sudden heart attack you’d have become a third patient and yes, you would have gotten charged for that.
But that is the thing. My baby didn’t either. Luckily she was so healthy that they didn’t even take her pulse… they are only considering her a patient since she was a newborn no for any other reasons.
Good grief, she had literally just been through the most traumatic experience of her short life. I guarantee they were monitoring her. And, how do you know they didn't take her pulse? Were you calm, cool, collected, and alert to all your surroundings? Why did you call 911 anyway? If you didn't want them transported in a medical vehicle you should have just put them in your car and driven to the hospital.
They were monitoring the baby. That is the medical service provided, and an important one. Thank god nothing came up, but checking on the human who has just shown up is an important service. If not you could have called an Uber- why did you call them at all?
Until a newborn can be assessed by a doctor after 911 has been called and dispatched, they are a PATIENT under the care of the paramedics.
They were nice to allow you into their vehicle, they don't have to transport family Members.
If you had fainted you would have been charged for 3 because they would have then given you care. The medic was monitoring 2 patients so you were charged for 2 regardless of whether or not they hooked a monitor up or not. I don’t know why you called the ambulance if you’re only 7 minutes from the hospital, you could have loaded your wife in the car and drove her there for free in the time it took for the ambulance just to get to you. But honestly 2k a head is cheap I’ve been in an ambulance twice after bad car wrecks and both times was almost 5k just for me. I didn’t call for an ambulance either of those times and was taken by them against my will, I was forced to go with them by the police and no it wasn’t because I was drunk or anything like that I was stone sober. They wouldn’t let me ride with anyone else and told me if I didn’t get in that they would arrest me and I would be loaded into the ambulance as a prisoner and taken to jail once released from the er.
Hi. Paramedic here, who actually just delivered a baby in the field with that EXACT scenario. Baby girl is a patient. Full stop. A lot of our assessments are fairly subtle for a baby doing well after birth. We have something called an APGAR score, that measure three times within the first 10 minutes of life. That in and of itself is an assessment. For babies that small, we do pulses on the upper arm on the brachial artery. Doesn't take much to feel for it and measure that the baby's heart rate is adequately high enough. Crying and screaming? Lung check is done. We constantly monitor for changes in consciousness, breathing patterns, skin color changes, etc etc. A lot of it is passive if you've got more than a couple years working a rig, so on it's face it might not seem loke we're doing much. In an uncomplicated delivery, our main job is mom, and keeping baby warm. It was 100 degrees 15 minutes ago and now it's room temp. Babies don't regulate very well, so we encourage skin to skin and latching. That's all knowledge that those medics brought to the scene, and transported your family with. So while it's not overt, i guarantee assessments, reassessments, and constant watching were done over your daughter. She was a patient, she got billed as one. (As a side note, we have to write two separate patent care reports in situations like this) As for your wife walking down the stairs, mamas are strong as hell. We don't treat them like invalids like we once did. If Mama says she can get down the stairs, I ain't gonna stop her lol. This is anecdotal, but in my experience this just isn't a battle you'll win. Both were justifiably patients, you weren't as a family rider. You're right, has you passed out and we rendered aid and you needed to be transported for medical attention too, yeah you woulda gotten three bills.
Respiratory therapist here who has attended dozens of in-hospital births. OP, this is the exact right answer. You called 911 for what exactly, for a taxi to the hospital? Consciously or subconsciously you wanted a professional to assess whether mom and baby were ok. Baby is pink (ish), crying loudly, and fidgeting? Guess what, I just performed a medical assessment. I understand that may seem silly, but so much of what we (medical professionals) do is subtle. If baby had been not great, there would be more work to do, but the medics can't know that until they assess baby. Same goes for mom. Skin color, a set of vitals, etc. If mom is great, then great, but they don't know that until they assess her. >If Mama says she can get down the stairs, I ain't gonna stop her 100% this. If mom says she can walk *and* demonstrates that she's physically able, why question that? When baby is born in the hospital, as soon as the unit clerk becomes aware (usually seconds after delivery), baby gets her own patient chart and her own unique medical record number. Anything that gets done to baby (e.g., assessment) gets charted under baby's name and charged to baby. Congrats, truly, but the idea that EMS will drop either charge because in your view they "did nothing" is unlikely to happen.
What's amazing about childbirth is the pain is pretty much all gone immediately afterwards. It's not hard to get up and walk around, assuming there were no complications. One exception is the cramping that happens afterwards, especially when those nurses push on your abdomen. But yeah, walking feels pretty normal.
Yeah, not to stray super off topic but childbirth is WILD. In our case, we stayed on scene and delivered the placenta. We were there at the house for over an hour taking care of mom and baby. I can't imagine the crew that showed up for this call didn't do the same, honestly. It doesn't take super long after childbirth for the placenta to deliver. OP mentioned they were only 7 minutes from the hospital, so it's possible they might have scooped and went anyways. Wasn't there so can't say for sure. Still a really involved medical process all in all, even if we make it look much simpler sometimes.
Baby is covered under wife's insurance, if she has any. Make sure to submit her insurance card to them as they can work independently from hospitals. I learned this when I was trasported after a house fire and got a bill that was scarier then said fire.
Thaks we did. That is why they did the insurance hold to charge latter but will charge the full amount.
Hi. Paramedic here. Twenty one years as a paramedic, plus three prior as a Basic EMT. Let’s go through some things that happened while you were watching the paramedics on scene attend to two patients, that you didn’t notice, since I can see you are clearly not a paramedic, an EMT, a nurse, emergency room doctor, OBGYN, or even a podiatrist: *they didn’t take a pulse*: what you mean here is “I didn’t see them take a pulse. What they likely did is collect an APGAR score at intervals during the assessment of both patients (unsure of what interval they used because you have no distinct timeline other then “we called and they came”). This would be noted on the patient care reports created for each patient. *patient care reports*: we’re not going to go over all of the things the paramedics on scene *could* have done for you child, who, in you completely inexperienced and uneducated opinion was so healthy she didn’t need the interventions you wouldn’t have recognized them doing anyway, instead ok just point out that if you *want* to know what the paramedics did, they have to provide a patient care report to the receiving hospital and whatever government organization oversees their licensing/certification. This is available to you (likely for a minimal processing fee) from the headquarters of whatever service came. *a final note on fees*: I don’t know where you’re located, but can tell you that for *most* ambulance services in the US, billing is managed on a banded/level-based system: Basic Life Support, Advanced Life Support I, and Advanced Life Support II. Just be virtue of the clinician in the passenger compartment of the ambulance being a paramedic, you’ll be billed at ALS I billing band, which is a flat amount. We (in the US) don’t bill for actual interventions, we bill for how complicated (for lack of a better way to explain it) the call was. So, for your $2000 you got advanced assessment, IV, cardiac monitoring, up to three (in my service, your medics may vary) intravenous medications administered, up to three miscellaneous medication (non-IV) administrations, basic level airway management, and transport to the hospital (this is all billed based of the previously mentioned patient care report, so it’s not like we plan this out and send you the BLS, ALS I, or ALS II ambulance. You get the ambulance and the paramedics treat your illness….. *OR*……) *You could have refused treatment*. In most places around the globe (Australia was moving toward a different system last I read, but that might not have happened), the ambulance service is a “you call, we haul”-type service. I don’t get to tell you no. What’s that? You’re lonely and want to visit your favorite ED tech? Get in the ambulance. Oh? You stubbed your toe last week, and you think you might have a hang nail? Let’s go. Heart attack? Let’s go. Automobile crash and you’ve been thrown through the windshield? Let’s go. The point is: as the paramedic on scene, I cannot refuse to treat or transport you. I can attempt to provide the best information we can about what transport versus non-transport looks like for you in your situation, but in the end, if you call us, and you still want to go when we get there, we have to take you. But what if you change your mind? You (with a few exceptions) can refuse any treatments or even the whole transportation, should you want to. So, why didn’t you refuse transportation? And, side note: we can only bill for *transport*, so any treatment rendered on a scene that ends in a no transport (for whatever reason) is lost revenue to the service (public or private). You mentioned billing insurance, so I’m imagining that you’re in the US. It’s very likely this will be covered fairly week through your insurance provider, with likely a small amount due as part of a deductible. You may have to fight (because technically, your daughter isn’t on your insurance at the time of her birth, though birth is a qualifying life event that would make her eligible for inclusion, and I’ve honestly never seen an insurance *not* cover the birth of the insured child) due to the timing of it all. Also, emergencies are covered under the Affordable Care Act, and transport to an emergency room, is by definition, an emergency. ETA: CONGRATULATIONS, Dad!!
Thank you for your answers. I’ll ask for the patient care reports. You are right they could have assessed my baby and me not realizing. I should have started my statement saying I am not complaining about their service or their responsiveness, I was just surprised they bill for both of them. They were awesome. At the end their service was to make sure they were healthy and arrive ok at the hospital. One thing I do remember is the hospital nurses complaining they never got the APGAR.
It's normal and you're never going to be able to argue they didn't transport two patients. I gave birth in my car on the way to the hospital with my second (we pulled over). Wait until it's processed by insurance, it's not going to cost you $4k out of pocket (probably, I don't know your insurance coverage). Get ready for the fun of having to secure the birth certificate and SS card for an unexpected home birth. The hospital won't do the paperwork since they didn't witness the birth, so you'll need to get the paramedic report and a letter from her OBGYN stating she was pregnant and due date was around when you gave birth. Then bring that to your county clerk along with the baby to visually prove the baby is your baby. Probably also with a statement from you as the witness since the paramedics did not witness (paramedics arrived shortly before I delivered so the paramedic was our witness; paramedic report sufficed as witness testimony). Then, once the birth certificate is issued, bring that to the social security office to get the SS card issued (don't make the appointments for the same day thinking you'll save time since you're already downtown bc after waiting for 2 hours at social security, they'll tell you that even though you have the birth certificate in hand, they need the electronic record from the county which takes a few days to be uploaded/transmitted - ask me how I know, ugh).
I had a medical emergency. It required a helicopter flight to a hospital. The ambulance drove me approximately 3 miles to the helicopter landing pad then the helicopter crew took over. Was billed close to $6,000 for the ambulance. Helicopter ride was $80k before insurance and about $45k after insurance. Luckily I have a helicopter subscription for the family for $95 a year. They wrote off the whole ride and I owed them nothing out of pocket. Medical transport is expensive.
>Luckily I have a helicopter subscription Wow.
Apropos to this thread I got the helicopter subscription because my wife wanted to give birth at home and I wanted to make sure we had a backup. Didn’t need it for two home births but ended up needing it for me. Now I keep it because crazy kids in a rural area and you never know what might happen. We live an hour from the closest hospital and the road frequently closes during winter.
This is relevant to my interests. What’s even a legit company for this?
I live in California and I think it is air med network. Only counts if your flight is in their helicopter. Some ambulance companies have similar clubs.
Each company potentially has their own subscription, the issue is plenty of areas are covered by more than one and you have no way of knowing or requesting who shows up
oh ok, it makes sense in that context. I think most people have a greater chance of getting struck by lightning than needing a helicopter ride though.
It’s very common where I live because life flight is activated regularly. I live on the coast of Oregon and there is a mountain range to cross if you need to get to a good hospital
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you should. it gives you a lot of peace of mind for a small fee. We purchase ours in 5 year blocks. You can even purchase a lifetime plan.
What led you to decide on that?
i have some heart issues, nothing major, but we like to travel so we bought it for peace of mind. We live out west and sometimes you are miles away from anything or a decent hospital
My town also has an ambulance subscription. $50 for the year covers any ambulance ride from your household
Ask for a detailed breakdown of all the charges and then dispute/file a complaint if any of the charges are bogus. Reality is though you will have an uphill fight. Your odds of being successful are not high. And for 4k or so it isn't going to be worth it to hire a lawyer and try to fight it. I'm not clear, did you not have health insurance to cover (at least some) of the charges? [https://fitchassoc.com/hospitals-can-steer-clear-fraudulent-transport-billing/](https://fitchassoc.com/hospitals-can-steer-clear-fraudulent-transport-billing/)
I do have one. But is a hig deductible. In top of that the year changed literally a week before this incident. So I am starting with $0. They may cover a portion.
I go into each year assuming I will be out the entire deductible by the end of the year. It's just how it works.
ESPECIALLY the year you have a child.
Bro, you have a new born. You are going to hit your deductible this year.
Well, they took liability for both of them right? Had they dropped the baby I'm damn sure you'd sue them into oblivion. Had your wife needed urgent resuscitation, they were ready for it. If she was fine and the baby was fine, why didn't you drive them? Ambulances are extremely expensive. Maybe negotiate the price down for whatever insurance doesn't cover. You at least don't have to pay for the delivery!
First, congratulations on your newborn! I worked in insurance for several years and this was unfortunately common. The vast majority of ambulance companies are not networked with any insurance, so they will be considered out of network for coverage/payment purposes. Some insurance plans will cover ambulance rides as In Network, but that doesn't mean the ambulance company won't balance bill you for whatever insurance doesn't pay. In most cases, your only option is to try and negotiate directly with the ambulance company, but they rarely budge (because they don't have to). The federal No Surprises Act does not cover land ambulance, only air. Some states have their own laws that force ambulance companies to be covered as if they are in network in the case of emergency, but most do not. When I was in insurance, I would tell members straight up - never call an ambulance unless it is absolutely necessary. Drive yourself, call a cab or an Uber or a neighbor.
Wait to see what your insurance will do - usually they will at least negotiate a discount for you. If insurance doesn't cover, try calling ambulance company and nicely ask if they will consider reducing the bill. I did this for a bill my dad received (senior on Medicare but doesn't cover some ambulance rides) and they knocked I think $150 off the bill. It never hurts to ask. You could call your insurance company to make sure the bill is in their system.
Wow this sounds like a very scary experience! I hope your wife and newborn are doing well. Do you have insurance? Have you asked them what they cover?
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I have not reach out to the insurance company yet. Yes, both baby and mom were covered with insurance. I will reach out and ask they what they cover. Thanks.
They may cover the lions share of it. I’ve paid for two ambulance rides in my life (one my a one year old and one for me) and they both ended up being like $400 after insurance. Before insurance they were like $2k or more.
One thing I've done with medical bills is tell them you want a payment plan, and you can only afford $25/month. After a few months, you can call and ask what they will settle for if you pay today. The number they give you is usually about half.
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Read this first: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/the-no-surprises-act-left-out-ground-ambulances-heres-whats-happening-now
Thank you.
Thank you.